Bernie Sanders Speech on 12-3-10 on Tax Cuts for Wealthy

[Hatha Sunahara]

This speech is something I didn't think could come out of anybody in congress. Sanders gets animated and sounds at times like Lewis Black. Worth watching. This speech restores my hope just a little.

Hatha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq1zpHF0J04

[General of Darkness]

What's funny is the ol Bernie there is talking about HIS tribesmen. :ROFL:

[Book]

Well worth watching.

:o

[Still Barbaro]

Thanks for the video of this speech. It says a lot. And yes, Bernie is among the tribesman. I appreciate his voice.

[cedarchopper]

Yeah, all good and fine...but he does not address the mechanics of the system that makes it possible for a bunch of fat-assed turds to accumulate all the wealth...private debt-based money with the government stamp of approval. If I had the power to issue currency with the government stamp, I could make all my friends rich beyond imagination, and destroy all my enemies. That's the system.

[Apparition]

More class-warfare rhetoric coming from an avowed socialist.

How about reducing spending and granting tax cuts to everyone regardless of class?

Oh, wait, can't have that in the "land of the free".

[Ash_Williams]

The dollars are a red herring. He's not saying anything and he damn well knows it, he's just trying to sound like he is angry and on the side of the little guy. He knows the little guy is too stupid to realize that simply tossing money around Zimbabwe style doesn't actually work. It's a safe assumption on his part, otherwise Obama never would have won.

Does it make a difference if you have $100 and a loaf of bread costs $1, or if you have $10,000 and a loaf of bread costs $100? To me it doesn't, but some people would feel better to have the $10,000 because they just like seeing the big number and don't want to consider the inflation in prices. He's appealing to those people.

What really matters from a wealth point of view for the average guy is how much the average guy gets to consume. Secondly, how much the country produces as compared to what it consumes. Those two things are tied together. Money is not part of that equation in the long-term. If the country is producing a lot, the average guy will get to consume more. If the country is non productive, the average guy will need to consume less. It doesn't matter if he has $100 valuable dollars or $10,000 incredibly inflated ones.

You could take all the money from the rich and spread it out evenly to everyone... would that fix anything? Will that get people back to work and producing? Will that get farmers farming more? More taxes will fix the economy? People think they will be less poor if the wealthy are taxed at a higher rate? Taxing millionaires will result in less imports from china?

And, as he points out, they're talking bringing in 700B over 10 years with the taxes. 70 Billion a year. The gov spends that in 2 weeks. They spend way more than that buying prescription drugs for people. They spent far more than the 10 year total just propping up banks and insurance companies and union shops that should have failed.

More taxes are not going to fix anything. Look at it simply:
Govt spending is near 50% of gdp these days.
The deficit to make up this year is going to be about 1.5 - 1.6 billion... the spending is about 67% more than revenue.
So if you want to get that tax revenue to make up the difference, you're taking it out on the 50% that isn't gov spending (unless the gov starts cannibalising its self to keep the illusion going) and that's 1.6 billion to be made up out of the private sector... after already being taxed. I don't see anyway that we're not talking about taking an additional 40% in tax revenue. What is tax already, all in? 20% or 30%. We're talking about putting tax up to 60 or 70% then.

I don't think it's even possible. That has to be past the point on the curve where a higher tax rate results in higher revenue. Can't be done. You can't tax the rich or anyone else to get out of this.

The only real solution is for the gov to piss off and let business be business.

[jimswift]

coming from an avowed socialist.

That is the first thing I see when I hear his name.

[Book]

People think they will be less poor if the wealthy are taxed at a higher rate?



http://media.cnbc.com/j/CNBC/Sections/News_And_Analysis/_Blogs/Warren_Buffett_Watch/_DAILY%20POSTS/Graphics/080306_BuffettGates2005.standard.jpg

Yeah...instead of raising their taxes defer it to our children.

:oo-->

[Book]

http://www.greedworld.com/images/wealth-chart.png

[Shami-Amourae]

Why does no one draw the parallel on how the more the government grows, the larger the disparity between the wealth between the rich and poor. Destroy this cancer at the source and allow the people to create wealth again.


Listen to this rant from Alex Jones @7:42...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imagcb3LtuQ

[Ash_Williams]

Yeah...instead of raising their taxes defer it to our children.

You're just attempting the same distraction the senator has. Like watching a pool leak from multiple holes and thinking "ok, if we take some water from this end of the pool and push it over there where it's leaking more, that should fix it."

The country is consuming more than it is producing.
The country is likely spending more than it can possibly recover in tax revenue.
It's not a choice of taxing the rich or taxing the poor, it's taxing the rich and taxing the poor.

And, in the greater scheme of things, this country as a whole is the rich minority. The same way a few people have most of the wealth in the US, applies to the rest of the world. The USA, Canada, and Europe have about 15% of the population. And yet we control most of the wealth of the world. The fact that the "poor" here can live in a house with cable TV and air conditioning and drive a car and eat well every day should remind you that we are the parasites! A couple hours of "working" at wall mart entitles someone here to purchase days or weeks of a chinaman's labor. If taxing the rich is the way to go, the rest of the world should be finding a way to tax the hell out of us.

Taxing people isn't going to create more jobs or grow more food. Inflating isn't going to create more jobs or grow more food. Posting pictures of Bill Gates over and over isn't going to bring factories back to the US.

If the wealth was divided evenly among everyone I'm sure you know what would happen - the same thing that happens to nearly all lottery winners, or pro athletes. It would also mean incredibly inflated prices for everything that the middle class buys. The saudi's aren't going to start pumping more oil just 'cause the average joe in America has more dollars.

There's no answer there. The only way for things to get better for everyone is for there to be more production. And the only way that can happen is for the govt to piss off.


Why does no one draw the parallel on how the more the government grows, the larger the disparity between the wealth between the rich and poor. Destroy this cancer at the source and allow the people to create wealth again.

Exactly. Bill Gates up there... his billion dollar profits impossible without each and every one of us paying tax money for the courts and law enforcement to protect his copyrights.

[Apparition]

Yeah...instead of raising their taxes defer it to our children.

You're just attempting the same distraction the senator has. Like watching a pool leak from multiple holes and thinking "ok, if we take some water from this end of the pool and push it over there where it's leaking more, that should fix it."

The country is consuming more than it is producing.
The country is likely spending more than it can possibly recover in tax revenue.
It's not a choice of taxing the rich or taxing the poor, it's taxing the rich and taxing the poor.

And, in the greater scheme of things, this country as a whole is the rich minority. The same way a few people have most of the wealth in the US, applies to the rest of the world. The USA, Canada, and Europe have about 15% of the population. And yet we control most of the wealth of the world. The fact that the "poor" here can live in a house with cable TV and air conditioning and drive a car and eat well every day should remind you that we are the parasites! A couple hours of "working" at wall mart entitles someone here to purchase days or weeks of a chinaman's labor. If taxing the rich is the way to go, the rest of the world should be finding a way to tax the hell out of us.

Taxing people isn't going to create more jobs or grow more food. Inflating isn't going to create more jobs or grow more food. Posting pictures of Bill Gates over and over isn't going to bring factories back to the US.

If the wealth was divided evenly among everyone I'm sure you know what would happen - the same thing that happens to nearly all lottery winners, or pro athletes. It would also mean incredibly inflated prices for everything that the middle class buys. The saudi's aren't going to start pumping more oil just 'cause the average joe in America has more dollars.

There's no answer there. The only way for things to get better for everyone is for there to be more production. And the only way that can happen is for the govt to piss off.


Why does no one draw the parallel on how the more the government grows, the larger the disparity between the wealth between the rich and poor. Destroy this cancer at the source and allow the people to create wealth again.

Exactly. Bill Gates up there... his billion dollar profits impossible without each and every one of us paying tax money for the courts and law enforcement to protect his copyrights.



Bravo.

The rich who earned or inherited their money legitimately owe nothing to the megalomanical and inept federal government.

If any rich fatcats, such as Warren Buffet, want their taxes raised then they should just write a huge check to the federal government. Where are they? Buffet the statist can certainly do so without the use of force.

In addition, many small businesspeople earning more than a million don't always keep so much after taxes and expenses are paid.

We don't need any more class warfare as advocated by these self-entitled and greedy statists whose only goals are more centralization and power.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Why does no one draw the parallel on how the more the government grows, the larger the disparity between the wealth between the rich and poor. Destroy this cancer at the source and allow the people to create wealth again.


I watched all 5 You Tube videos in this series. The rant gets better.

I agree that the more government grows, the larger the wealth gap gets. It's because the government has become the tool of the rich. Alex Jones makes a big point of this. Alex Jones closes out his show by telling us to get ready for a Nuclear WW III. The wealthy people want this to consolidate their power. They want to bankrupt all of us so we are dependent on them.

It just amazes me how many people think the rich are a blessing to us all, and should be treated like gods. The people who think that are true slaves. Slaves who think nobody should escape the rule of their masters. Slaves who believe what they are told, and refuse to believe what they actually see. Slaves who find freedom useless.

Hatha

[Book]

Bill Gates up there... his billion dollar profits impossible without each and every one of us paying tax money for the courts and law enforcement to protect his copyrights.



http://in-this-economy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/this-guy-could-be-a-fake-waiter.jpg

I find it astonishing how many Americans accept Bill Gates and Warren Buffet each personally sitting on FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS after taxes then allow their own children and grandchildren to be enslaved to pay off the National Debt.

:o

[ShortJohnSilver]

Don't forget how much the government BUYS from Gates and Buffett. Almost all govt computers aside from servers, run Windows; billions a year no doubt are spent on Microsoft software and operating systems.

[Apparition]

Bill Gates up there... his billion dollar profits impossible without each and every one of us paying tax money for the courts and law enforcement to protect his copyrights.



http://in-this-economy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/this-guy-could-be-a-fake-waiter.jpg

I find it astonishing how many Americans accept Bill Gates and Warren Buffet each personally sitting on FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS after taxes then allow their own children and grandchildren to be enslaved to pay off the National Debt.

:o


Ah, yes, they OWE something to the government.

How about your income? Why don't you donate more of your government-owned money to the IRS anyway? If you're willing assist them then at least donate 50%+ of your earnings--I'd think they'd prefer 90%+ if you're really up to it.

If you want to subsidize and strengthen the Feds then do so with your income and not other people's incomes.

[Ash_Williams]

I find it astonishing how many Americans accept Bill Gates and Warren Buffet each personally sitting on FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS after taxes then allow their own children and grandchildren to be enslaved to pay off the National Debt.

So you don't like them having that money and you want to tax them.
You think any of that money is going to end up somewhere better?
Tax them so we can kill muslims? Tax them so we can keep the banks afloat? Tax them to pay businesses to suck? Tax them to pay farmers to not grow food?

Ok. Let's tax everything Gates has. Assuming he's an idiot and stays in the country for some reason, we'll have 50 billion dollars. Then what? He's broke and the gov is just as broke as ever.

As the senator said, we're talking about 700 billion dollars over 10 years. It's silly to pretend it has anything to do with paying off the debt.

Equally silly to pretend everyone having more dollars will mean they have a better lifestyle. Why doesn't the gov just send everyone $2000 a month and call it a day? No one has to work anymore - we'll all have money!

[Apparition]

I find it astonishing how many Americans accept Bill Gates and Warren Buffet each personally sitting on FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS after taxes then allow their own children and grandchildren to be enslaved to pay off the National Debt.

So you don't like them having that money and you want to tax them.
You think any of that money is going to end up somewhere better?
Tax them so we can kill muslims? Tax them so we can keep the banks afloat? Tax them to pay businesses to suck? Tax them to pay farmers to not grow food?

Ok. Let's tax everything Gates has. Assuming he's an idiot and stays in the country for some reason, we'll have 50 billion dollars. Then what? He's broke and the gov is just as broke as ever.

As the senator said, we're talking about 700 billion dollars over 10 years. It's silly to pretend it has anything to do with paying off the debt.

Equally silly to pretend everyone having more dollars will mean they have a better lifestyle. Why doesn't the gov just send everyone $2000 a month and call it a day? No one has to work anymore - we'll all have money!

To many people it seems that the good ol' federal government knows how to spend and use our money better than we know.

I'm honestly surprised that this is the view of some users.

Has the federal government done a good job of managing social security, medicare, medicaid, amtrak, department of education, department of agriculture, used the stimulus to create jobs, etc.?

With that in mind, does anyone actually think that taxing the rich unequally compared to others will actually benefit people and the economy?

[Ash_Williams]

With that in mind, does anyone actually think that taxing the rich unequally compared to others will actually benefit people and the economy?

Honestly they do. I've talked to many people. They are mostly bad at math, so you hear things like these:

"A millionaire pays less taxes than I do, that's what's wrong with the system!" (They get the percentage rate and absolute value confused and don't realize the millionaire is actually paying several hundred times what they are paying.)

"We could just give everyone a million dollars each as a stimulus - it would be cheaper than the bank bailouts!" (They are just terrible at math.)

"If they stopped foreign aid we'd have no debt and they could double SS payments." 'Cause ending a 15 billion dollar program will fix a 1.5 trillion dollar debt and allow another 600 billion to be spent.

Some people really do beleive that more dollars will fix everything. They beleive that if the rich were taxed more, we could all be rich, and we wouldn't have to work. They want this for the entire planet. No one really needs to work. I'm not kidding. They don't understand that everything we consume has to be produced. Some are more moderate and think we can just pay everyone a high wage. Everyone will be paid well and able to afford a lot. The guy who pumps gas will be paid great, and the one that cleans hubcaps, and the girl that scans stuff at the checkout. They'll all be upper middle class. Oh, and prices won't go up that much, because it's those evil businesses taking 80% profit that are the problem, and this will fix them.

[Book]

Some are more moderate and think we can just pay everyone a high wage.



http://garlicsim.org/images/butler/butler.jpg

House niggers act happier than field niggers. You seem quite happy serving Master...lol.
:D

[Book]

With that in mind, does anyone actually think that taxing the rich unequally compared to others will actually benefit people and the economy?



http://zap.intergate.ca/images/doorman.jpg

http://www.perryroth.com/100104/images/ny_doorman.jpg

http://goodbadidea.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/doorman5.jpg

DOORMAN

They think they are the "middle class". They bow and open the door to the wealthy and chase away the commoners.

Their uniform exudes power and rank.

They like it just fine that Master pays low taxes.

If Master paid more taxes the DOORMAN will need to go find a real job.

;D

[nunaem]

And you'd rather have the State have that money so we can serve them?

[Apparition]

And you'd rather have the State have that money so we can serve them?

Of course! Look at the beneficial and financially-sound programs, policies, and institutions the state has provided us with including the Federal Reserve, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, AmTrak, The Depts of Education, Agriculture, Interior etc., USAID, the wars in and ongoing occupations of Afghanistan & Iraq, the Drug Wars, TARP, the stimuli packages, Obamacare, etc.

Who could not want to donate to the government with such an incredibly intelligent track record including the items above? :sarc:

[Book]

http://www.innovation-creative.com/IMAGES/Livres_innovation_3/Kim_&_Mauborgne/NetJets/gates_buffet.jpg

Let's give our "middle class" Doorman a raise Bill with the money we steal from his children and grandchildren.

:D

[Apparition]

http://www.innovation-creative.com/IMAGES/Livres_innovation_3/Kim_&_Mauborgne/NetJets/gates_buffet.jpg

Let's give our "middle class" Doorman a raise Bill with the money we steal from his children and grandchildren.

:D


So, stealing from those rich who legitimately earned and inherited their money is going to solve the problem?

Is theft justified so long as it is the state is doing it and the rich are targeted so that wealth is redistributed by bureaucrats to whomever they decide should share the loot?

Do you honestly believe the state will solve our problems by stealing from one group to redistribute to the politically-connected & favored?

Edit: Posting the same images of Gates & Buffet isn't an answer and is pretty repetitive and pointless.

[nunaem]

And you'd rather have the State have that money so we can serve them?

Of course! Look at the benficial and financially-sound programs, policies, and institutions the state has provided us with including the Federal Reserve, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, AmTrak, The Depts of Education, Agriculture, Interior etc., USAID, the wars in and ongoing occupations of Afghanistan & Iraq, the Drug Wars, TARP, the stimuli packages, etc.

Who could not want to donate the government with such an incredibly intelligent track record including the items above? :sarc:


And if the State was actually half decent, it wouldn't create Bill Gates in the first place.

[Apparition]

And you'd rather have the State have that money so we can serve them?

Of course! Look at the benficial and financially-sound programs, policies, and institutions the state has provided us with including the Federal Reserve, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, AmTrak, The Depts of Education, Agriculture, Interior etc., USAID, the wars in and ongoing occupations of Afghanistan & Iraq, the Drug Wars, TARP, the stimuli packages, etc.

Who could not want to donate the government with such an incredibly intelligent track record including the items above? :sarc:


And if the State was actually half decent, it wouldn't create Bill Gates in the first place.


Agreed.

But we need the state to solve the problems it has created so that we all benefit.

Great logic, ain't it? :D

[nunaem]

Well if the State wanted to specifically go after the people it helped enrich I'd be all for it. Take all their money.

[Apparition]

Well if the State wanted to specifically go after the people it helped enrich I'd be all for it. Take all their money.


As long as it's the money they stole from taxpayers or from other people then I could agree as well, although I'd be somewhat cautious of how it would be accomplished.

That aside, I'd prefer to let legitimate wealth earners, creators, and inheritors be.

[Book]

those rich who legitimately earned and inherited their money...



Who might they be?

:D

[Apparition]

those rich who legitimately earned and inherited their money...




Who might they be?

:D




I don't know maybe people who were ambitious and worked hard enough to save and create a product or service desired by others?

I know it's really, really, really, strange but sometimes people who invest money in certain ideas and products can become rich.

Does all your money belong to the state or did you steal any of it?

BTW class warfare is pointless and is mainly promoted by self-entitled socialists and other statists who wish to establish a wealth-distributing & moralistic Big Brother society. Would you be happy to live in a state-worshiping kind of paradise?

[Horn]

Let's give our "middle class" Doorman a raise Bill with the money we steal from his children and grandchildren.

:D


Why?

When we can make his union continually question its existence by putting it on life support?

[Book]

those rich who legitimately earned and inherited their money...




Who might they be?

:D




I don't know...



Exactly.

:D

[Horn]

those rich who legitimately earned and inherited their money...




Who might they be?

:D




I don't know...



Exactly.

:D


Its called "old money"

I have no problem with it, so long as I get my fair share. ;D

You'd figure if those dudes were holding gold, they would be smart enough to be spending it about now. :-X

[Hatha Sunahara]

I'd be happy if we had a government that didn't subsidize the rich at the expense of everyone else.


Hatha

[Horn]

This speech restores my hope just a little.

Forgetaboutit Hatha, the idea that they even have a chance of paying off debt is a fruitless one at best.

[Apparition]

those rich who legitimately earned and inherited their money...




Who might they be?

:D




I don't know... maybe people who were ambitious and worked hard enough to save and create a product or service desired by others?

I know it's really, really, really, strange but sometimes people who invest money in certain ideas and products can become rich.

Does all your money belong to the state or did you steal any of it?

BTW class warfare is pointless and is mainly promoted by self-entitled socialists and other statists who wish to establish a wealth-distributing & moralistic Big Brother society. Would you be happy to live in a state-worshiping kind of paradise?



Exactly.

:D



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context :oo-->