Rotating out Preps

[madfranks]

So I began my first endeavor to rotate out my preps today. I started prepping around 3-4 years ago, so now some of the food is ready to be rotated out and eaten to be replaced with new preps. Here's my experiences from today:

I pulled out a couple dozen tins of sardines that "expire" in early 2011. It doesn't actually say expire, it says "best before" and then the date. Question: how long can canned goods last after their "best before" date? I pulled open one of the tins and ate the sardines, and they tasted really good! I was surprised how well they kept after being stored for a few years. Third, when I bought these they were $0.79 per tin, now they're a buck and a quarter, so not as cheap to replace.

I have a case of the Cinnamon Almond Granola from Emergency Essentials (http://beprepared.com/product.asp?pn=FS%20G175&name=Low-Fat%20Cinnamon%20Almond%20Granola&bhcd2=1291691610) and I cracked one open and damn! This stuff is awesome! I put some milk over it and ate it like a bowl of cereal, and it was fantastic. So far I'm impressed with how good my preps taste!

A few years ago I bought a case full of MRE "sides" that was on sale at Emergency Essentials, and I opened the box and it was full of individually sealed sides like breads and cakes. I opened up a Marble Pound Cake, and it had a little oxygen absorber inside with the cake. When I bit into it, it was really, really dry. I needed a small glass of milk to down it, but it would do the trick in an emergency. I included a pic of the sides so you can all see what they look like. There are things like wheat bread, poppy seed cake, lemon cake, pound cake, etc. I think I paid somewhere around $0.50 per item when it was all figured out.

Overall, it was a fun experience, going through preps and finding things to pull out and replace. Sometimes I forget how much food I have stored up, and it feels good knowing I have this extra bit of "insurance" in case things get really bad.

[joe_momma]

Great (and timely) question -

Cleaned out the cupboard and found cans of Campbell's soup with an expiration of 2002 - opened one (Chicken noodle) tasted fine (or at least as good as canned soup tastes). Ate it Saturday - no ill effects - in fact - the Raiders beat San Diego so perhaps it was "magical" soup?

I cannot recommend past expiration foods - I suppose botulism could exist without a foul taste/smell - but from a single data point - intact canned food appears safe 8 years after expiration.

(Note, I am not brave enough to try the 1999 can of Cream of Mushroom.)

[Book]

Question: how long can canned goods last after their "best before" date?



There have been many comments/reports on the internet by people who have opened up really old canned food and found the contents quite edible:

http://www.grandpappy.info/hshelff.htm

CAN FOOD SHELF LIFE (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gbv=2&q=canned+food+shelf+life&biw=1280&bih=573&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw#sclient=psy&hl=en&gbv=2&biw=1280&bih=573&source=hp&q=canned+food+shelf+life&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=canned+food+shelf+life&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=7b9141da4f416ce8)

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[SLV^GLD]

Recently opened and used 2 cartons of organic chicken stock (pacific brand IIRC) that was 2 years past date. I was almost certain it would be fine and my wife was almost certain it would be bad. It was fine.

[cedarchopper]

Time really flies, I have cartons of canned goods (six packs from Costco/Sam's) with expired dates on them (especially tomato paste, sauce, and whole), although they are probably fine, I seem to always pass over them when preparing meals and always pick the fresher stock to actually eat. I'm probably going to throw it all out and start all over again...the Food Bank won't take expired goods and the old stuff is taking up too much space. It's just the price of insurance.

Speaking of supplies, has anyone ever been to Restaurant Depot? It will blow your mind...50# bags of everything and cases of #10 cans stacked 20 feet high or higher, a walk-in cooler that must be 20,000 Sq ft with cases of beef of all kinds, cheeses from around the world...everything you can imagine.

You could load up years worth of food in an hour...that's where I'm heading on the hint of any real crisis. The big drawback for the public is you have to have a "food business license" to shop there.

http://www.restaurantdepot.com/

[Sparky]

Time really flies, I have cartons of canned goods (six packs from Costco/Sam's) with expired dates on them (especially tomato paste, sauce, and whole), although they are probably fine, I seem to always pass over them when preparing meals and always pick the fresher stock to actually eat. I'm probably going to throw it all out and start all over again...the Food Bank won't take expired goods and the old stuff is taking up too much space. It's just the price of insurance.
...


What makes you pass over the older stock, CC? Lack of organization?

Stock inventory and rotation is an interesting challenge to me. You want to get to the point where your consumption rate is equal to your replenishment rate, while your inventory size stays roughly static, and you don't ever have to eat anything that's expired. Here's the simple formula for each item:

Inventory (units) = Freshness period (months) X Consumption Rate (units/month)

If you consume 3 units per month, and the item has a freshness period of 24 months from the time of purchase, then your inventory can get as high as 72 units.

I think the biggest mistake in inventory size is an overestimation of consumption rate. If you're throwing stuff out because you didn't plan properly, then you're part of the food shortage problem.

As far as storage, the biggest challenge is storing things in a First In First Out arrangement. It requires some effort. The problem is, you organize 20 items by date. You eat two of them, and then you go buy two, and it's hard to get the two items into the back of the queue without a major reorganization. Those FIFO dispensers work for cans, but they are somewhat pricey, and only work for cans.

Here's a method I use: When you buy the replenishment items, accumulate them separately (regardless of date) from your organized stock. Then, when your organized pile gets low, you do a sort of your accumulation stack to make a new organized pile. That eliminates having to do a re-sort every time you come back from the store.

For items that only get stored one deep, like boxes of cereal, I use the "take from the left" method. Consume from the left, slide to the left, accumulate to the right.

If you're throwing out preps, you need a better system

[joe_momma]

Cash - n - Carry is a similar restaurant wholesaler - no business license needed though! (West coast operation)

http://www.smartfoodservice.com/


Sorry - just read the website - technically they ask for your business license - I've shopped there a half-dozen times and never had a problem though.

[G2Rad]

I found 2 cans of beef&potatoes, labeled 2007 "expire" date

Its been three days since I ate them up.

I am still alive and well.

[Dogman]

In a lot of ways for canned food the expired date is a racket. As long as the food is still under vacuum and the top and bottom are still in and not bulged out, the food is more likely good even years after what is printed on the can. Last year I found some canned salmon my mom used to eat (passed in 98) the cans still looked good so I opened one and guess what , still good! The date on them was 1989 so those cans were older than 20 years and still good. I love to tell people down here to give me the expired cans they have. free food!

[G2Rad]

In a lot of ways for canned food the expired date is a racket. As long as the food is still under vacuum and the top and bottom are still in and not bulged out, the food is more likely good even years after what is printed on the can. Last year I found some canned salmon my mom used to eat (passed in 98) the cans still looked good so I opened one and guess what , still good! The date on them was 1989 so those cans were older than 20 years and still good. I love to tell people down here to give me the expired cans they have. free food!


I heard that botulism bacteria can produce very dangerous toxins.

The botulism bacteria does not need oxigen to reproduce and one can't tell whether the food is deadly by smell and/or taste

[Dogman]

In a lot of ways for canned food the expired date is a racket. As long as the food is still under vacuum and the top and bottom are still in and not bulged out, the food is more likely good even years after what is printed on the can. Last year I found some canned salmon my mom used to eat (passed in 98) the cans still looked good so I opened one and guess what , still good! The date on them was 1989 so those cans were older than 20 years and still good. I love to tell people down here to give me the expired cans they have. free food!


I heard that botulism bacteria can produce very dangerous toxins.

The botulism bacteria does not need oxigen to reproduce and one can't tell whether the food is deadly by smell and/or taste




Yes but the trick is as it grows it produces gas, and that is what blows the can lids out and the cans go from a vacuum to a positive pressure.

As long as the top and bottom of the can are in place and not popped out and when you open it and the food still smells good, or normal for the food in question, and then cooked right, should not be a problem.

[SilverMagnet]

This man ate a 50 year old can of chicken to celebrate his wedding Anniversary and lived to give the interview:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/4693520.stm

[cedarchopper]

Time really flies, I have cartons of canned goods (six packs from Costco/Sam's) with expired dates on them (especially tomato paste, sauce, and whole), although they are probably fine, I seem to always pass over them when preparing meals and always pick the fresher stock to actually eat. I'm probably going to throw it all out and start all over again...the Food Bank won't take expired goods and the old stuff is taking up too much space. It's just the price of insurance.
...


What makes you pass over the older stock, CC? Lack of organization?

Stock inventory and rotation is an interesting challenge to me. You want to get to the point where your consumption rate is equal to your replenishment rate, while your inventory size stays roughly static, and you don't ever have to eat anything that's expired. Here's the simple formula for each item:

Inventory (units) = Freshness period (months) X Consumption Rate (units/month)

If you consume 3 units per month, and the item has a freshness period of 24 months from the time of purchase, then your inventory can get as high as 72 units.

I think the biggest mistake in inventory size is an overestimation of consumption rate. If you're throwing stuff out because you didn't plan properly, then you're part of the food shortage problem.

As far as storage, the biggest challenge is storing things in a First In First Out arrangement. It requires some effort. The problem is, you organize 20 items by date. You eat two of them, and then you go buy two, and it's hard to get the two items into the back of the queue without a major reorganization. Those FIFO dispensers work for cans, but they are somewhat pricey, and only work for cans.

Here's a method I use: When you buy the replenishment items, accumulate them separately (regardless of date) from your organized stock. Then, when your organized pile gets low, you do a sort of your accumulation stack to make a new organized pile. That eliminates having to do a re-sort every time you come back from the store.

For items that only get stored one deep, like boxes of cereal, I use the "take from the left" method. Consume from the left, slide to the left, accumulate to the right.

If you're throwing out preps, you need a better system


Yeah, Sparky...lack of a real system, but also we don't eat a lot canned food...but I still like to have it. The long-term emergency type goods (#10 cans of grains with oxygen absorbers) I don't even worry about rotating because they should be good for a long time (and I know how to use them in baking...I can mill the grain, leaven the dough and ferment it with my sourdough starter, and bake 15 loaves at a time in my wood fired brick oven;]

I find that the stored goods we use most are things like oils (olive and coconut), dried fruits, nuts, pasta, legumes (beans, split peas, lentils, etc), grains like oats for making granola and hot cereal, wheat and rye for bread baking, masa, cornmeal, canned tomato products, pickles, salmon...but mostly we buy fresh meats and fish, eggs, and produce for daily consumption.

It's a balance between what I think is the optimum diet for health (fresh), having a well stocked pantry, and being able to put food on the table in just about any situation. There is a waste factor in there, but I'm not going to eat only what I can store...at least while I have the option.

[madfranks]

Question: how long can canned goods last after their "best before" date?



There have been many comments/reports on the internet by people who have opened up really old canned food and found the contents quite edible:

http://www.grandpappy.info/hshelff.htm

CAN FOOD SHELF LIFE (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gbv=2&q=canned+food+shelf+life&biw=1280&bih=573&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw#sclient=psy&hl=en&gbv=2&biw=1280&bih=573&source=hp&q=canned+food+shelf+life&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=canned+food+shelf+life&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=7b9141da4f416ce8)

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From link:

Canned Food Study One
A Food and Drug Administration Article about a shelf life test that was conducted on 100-year old canned foods that were retrieved from the Steamboat Bertrand can be read at the following link:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070509153848/http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00043.html

Following is a brief summary of a very small portion of the above article:

"Among the canned food items retrieved from the Bertrand in 1968 were brandied peaches, oysters, plum tomatoes, honey, and mixed vegetables. In 1974, chemists at the National Food Processors Association (NFPA) analyzed the products for bacterial contamination and nutrient value. Although the food had lost its fresh smell and appearance, the NFPA chemists detected no microbial growth and determined that the foods were as safe to eat as they had been when canned more than 100 years earlier. The nutrient values varied depending upon the product and nutrient. NFPA chemists Janet Dudek and Edgar Elkins report that significant amounts of vitamins C and A were lost. But protein levels remained high, and all calcium values 'were comparable to today's products.'"

"NFPA chemists also analyzed a 40-year-old can of corn found in the basement of a home in California. Again, the canning process had kept the corn safe from contaminants and from much nutrient loss. In addition, Dudek says, the kernels looked and smelled like recently canned corn."

[Mouse]

I have eaten a lot of expired food and have had relatively few problems with any of it. The things I have found to avoid are cans of really old baked beans (these were so old there was no date) - they tasted stale, but were edible. Of the more recent preps, to my disappointment I have discovered that Hunt's tomato products do not do well very far past expiration. The sauce and paste will take on a metallic "can" taste. I had a couple cases of sauce that were a few months expired and used them up with garden veggies over the summer to make a huge batch of marinara sauce, which I then canned in jars. If you get the stuff out of the can and into a jar before it gets that "can" taste to it, it's good for years more.

[DMac]

I have eaten a lot of expired food and have had relatively few problems with any of it. The things I have found to avoid are cans of really old baked beans (these were so old there was no date) - they tasted stale, but were edible. Of the more recent preps, to my disappointment I have discovered that Hunt's tomato products do not do well very far past expiration. The sauce and paste will take on a metallic "can" taste. I had a couple cases of sauce that were a few months expired and used them up with garden veggies over the summer to make a huge batch of marinara sauce, which I then canned in jars. If you get the stuff out of the can and into a jar before it gets that "can" taste to it, it's good for years more.


I imagine that is related to the acidity of the tomato. Low acidic foods probably last much longer.

[Dogman]

I have eaten a lot of expired food and have had relatively few problems with any of it. The things I have found to avoid are cans of really old baked beans (these were so old there was no date) - they tasted stale, but were edible. Of the more recent preps, to my disappointment I have discovered that Hunt's tomato products do not do well very far past expiration. The sauce and paste will take on a metallic "can" taste. I had a couple cases of sauce that were a few months expired and used them up with garden veggies over the summer to make a huge batch of marinara sauce, which I then canned in jars. If you get the stuff out of the can and into a jar before it gets that "can" taste to it, it's good for years more.


I imagine that is related to the acidity of the tomato. Low acidic foods probably last much longer.


Yes
But low acidic food are also the ones you have to be more careful about, going bad and deadly.

[k-os]

I just ate some MREs for dinner, because I was reading the "What if the Jap Reactor Blows" thread, and figured I should at least taste some. I may as well eat this stuff now if the food supply is contaminated. ???

I had some pasta marinara with vegetable bits, some "imitation" (fake) pork ribs, and the only thing that I could call delicious out of the group was the marble pound cake - yum! The other stuff was obviously chemical tasting, but at least it's probably free from radiation, since I bought it in 2008/2009. Still, if I had to eat these chemical creations, I am sure I would think they were delicious. The package size was deceiving, and I dished out way more than I could eat, which is also good to know. The dogs had no problem eating my leftovers. ;D

I noticed the oxy absorber in the pound cake too, but it was really tasty, albeit a little dry.

[Mouse]

KoS - You are NOT supposed to eat the Oxygen absorber.

Geez, how many times do I gotta tell you......

[ximmy]

I'm "attempting" to keep a two year supply of everything I use, rotating... (including drinking water, personal products and cleaning supplies)

30 year stuff is limited to rice, dried milk, sugar, wheat, oats, onions, potato flakes...

Getting there... ;D

[solid]

I'm "attempting" to keep a two year supply of everything I use, rotating... (including drinking water, personal products and cleaning supplies)

30 year stuff is limited to rice, dried milk, sugar, wheat, oats, onions, potato flakes...

Getting there... ;D


That's great ximmy, a two year supply is fantastic. My goal is one year of total food supply onboard. Space is an issue. There's no way I can keep a one year supply of water for example.

I figure a one year supply of rice, powdered eggs, dried beans, the basics, then a lot of different canned goods with mountain house meals to mix it up. Catch fresh fish.

[DMac]

I'm "attempting" to keep a two year supply of everything I use, rotating... (including drinking water, personal products and cleaning supplies)

30 year stuff is limited to rice, dried milk, sugar, wheat, oats, onions, potato flakes...

Getting there... ;D


That's great ximmy, a two year supply is fantastic. My goal is one year of total food supply onboard. Space is an issue. There's no way I can keep a one year supply of water for example.

I figure a one year supply of rice, powdered eggs, dried beans, the basics, then a lot of different canned goods with mountain house meals to mix it up. Catch fresh fish.


You're in a boat solid, surrounded by water!

Some sample methods for you:
http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_6639049_purify-salt-water-regular-water.html

http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_5188575_remove-salt-water.html

http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_8223116_remove-salt-ocean-water.html

[solid]

You're in a boat solid, surrounded by water!


I know, the irony that I can't drink it is killing me. ;D

I am working on it...

http://gold-silver.us/forum/preparedness/solar-distillers/