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Ponce
13th December 2010, 09:35 AM
Only thing interesting here today.........

First post of the day.........good morning to one and all.
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On The Chopping Block - Social Security.

Medicare And Medicaid
By Stephen Lendman
12-13-10

Planned is death by a thousand cuts - aka "creeping normalcy," defined as a way to make major changes seem normal if happen slowly, incrementally like boiling a frog unaware it's dinner until cooked.

Social Security and Medicare are dinner. Yet both are insurance, not welfare, programs funded by (worker-employer) payroll tax deductions. They're contractual federal obligations to eligible recipients who qualify. You'd never know it the way both programs are publicly discussed, explaining everything but the truth. More on that below.

On August 14, 1935, the Social Security Act became law, known as the federal Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance program (OASDI). It provides retirement, disability, survivorship, and death benefits. It's still America's most effective poverty reduction program that's worked remarkably well since inception. It exists to provide secure inflation-adjusted retirement or disability income, unlike risking personal savings to create private wealth that may end up losing it.

Despite bogus claims, it's not going bankrupt. When properly administered, it's sound and secure, needing only modest adjustments at times to assure it.

On July 30, 1965, Lyndon Johnson signed the Social Security (Medicare) Act into law, enrolling Harry and Bess Truman as its first recipients.

Medicare.gov calls it "the nation's largest health insurance program," covering 40 million Americans. It's a "Health Insurance program for people age 65 or older, some disabled people under age 65, and people of all ages with End-Stage Renal Disease (permanent kidney failure treated with dialysis or a transplant)."

America's aristocracy wants Medicare and Social Security ended, citing the nation's burgeoning debt and enormous unfunded liabilities for both programs. The web site usdebtclock.org lists them as follows:

(1) the US National Debt: nearly $14 trillion;

(2) Social Security Liability: nearly $15 trillion;

(3) Prescription Drug Liability: nearly $20 trillion; and

(4) Medicare Liability: nearly $78 trillion.

Total: nearly $113 trillion plus the National Debt.

Most important is that future liabilities mask today's soundness that can stay that way if current programs are properly administered. That's omitted from hyped scare tactics to convince future recipients to make unjustifiable sacrifices. Like them or not, they're coming, major media reports promoting the idea as well as politicians from both parties.

On August 9, 2010, for example, a New York Times editorial headlined, "The Latest on Medicare and Social Security," saying:

"Of course, neither program is sound for the long run. (Yet there's) time for lawmakers to reform and strengthen both (for) the long haul. (Required is) a combination of benefits cuts and tax increases, which could be distributed fairly and phased in over decades."

A May 13, 2009 Wall Street Journal report headlined "Social Security, Medicare Face Insolvency Sooner," saying:

Medicare "will be depleted by 2017," Social Security by "2037." In fact, neither program is endangered as explained above. Yet the report continues:

"Any attempt to address long-term fiscal problems will require big changes to the way entitlements are funded or paid out."

False, but don't expect major media reports to explain or side with recipients about programs too important to be weakened or lost.

Yet in his January State of the Union address, Obama announced plans to "freeze government spending for three years," starting in 2011, saying he'd form a bipartisan fiscal commission to cut the deficit and tackle entitlements by imposed austerity at a time massive stimulus is needed.

Called the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform (NCFRF), it's co-chaired by two deficit hawks, former Senator Alan Simpson (R. WY) and Erskine Bowles, former Clinton White House Chief of Staff. They headed an 18-member team, stacked with like-minded members, elitists knowing their futures are secure.

Their mandate: slash Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and other social spending, continuing a decades long process of transferring wealth to America's super-rich. On November 10, they issued their proposal. An earlier article addressed it, accessed through the following link:

http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2010/11/obama-teams-deficit-cutting-proposal.html

Among other recommendations were:

-- ending or capping middle class tax breaks, including deductions for home mortgage insurance and tax-free employer provided medical insurance;

-- lowering income taxes dramatically to 9, 15 and 24%, down from six brackets ranging from 10 - 35%;

-- slashing corporate tax rates from the top 35% to 26%;

-- making deep Medicare cuts as well as increasing Medicaid co-pays; and

-- raising the Social Security retirement age to 69 by 2075 as well as reducing annual cost-of-living increases.

A second Bipartisan Policy Center (BPC) commission co-chaired by former Senator Pete Domenici (R. NM) and Alice Rivlin, former director of the Office of Management and Budget and the Congressional Budget Office, issued its own proposal called "Restoring America's Future."

Its recommendations include:

-- indexing Social Security benefits to life expectancy to reduce them as longevity increases;

-- eliminating annual cost-of-living adjustments, bogusly claiming inflation is overstated, especially for retirees facing costly medical expenses;

-- instituting a one-year payroll tax holiday for workers and employers to save $650 billion, supposedly to be replenished from future general revenues; in fact, it's a way to help kill Social Security as discussed below;

-- sharply cutting Medicare and Medicaid benefits;

-- simplifying the tax code to two brackets (15 and 27%), favoring the rich;

-- eliminating home mortgage and most other deductions and credits;

-- taxing employer provided health insurance; and

-- instituting a 6.5% national sales tax, hitting ordinary people hardest.

An earlier article providing more details, including on Obama's planned austerity, can be accessed through the following link:

http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2010/11/destructive-neoliberal-austerity.html

Nancy Altman is co-director of Social Security Works (strengthensocialsecurity.org), an "American coalition (representing over 50 million Americans) united around the simple proposition, Strengthen Social Security...Don't Cut It."

Its seven principles include:

(1) Social Security didn't cause the federal deficit; it shouldn't be cut to reduce it;

(2) it shouldn't be privatized;

(3) it shouldn't be means-tested;

(4) future revenues should come by raising the payroll tax ceiling, requiring those earning more to pay their fair share;

(5) the retirement age shouldn't increase further;

(6) benefits shouldn't be cut, including by reducing annual inflation-adjusted increases; and

(7) benefits "should be increased for those who are most disadvantaged."

In short, Social Security (Medicare and Medicaid) should be strengthened to provide greater, not lower, future benefits.

Obama's Destructive Payroll Tax Holiday

The proposed 2% worker earnings cut for one year is a stealth indefinite extension scheme to drain hundreds of billions from the Social Security Trust Fund. Doing so will irreparably weaken its ability to pay future benefits, the idea being to destroy the program altogether, perhaps first by privatizing it.

Social Security Works explained how the tax holiday "could unravel" the whole system as follows:

(1) "It's easy to enact tax cuts - it's very hard to end them."

(2) Doing so results in a substantial tax increase - $2,000 on $100,000 a year earners, $400 for those making $20,000.

(3) "Restoring the 2% lost....would be a nearly 50% tax increase (for) 94% of all Americans...."

(4) House and Senate Republicans oppose any increases. So do many Democrats, especially in election years or when economic conditions are weak.

(5) Obama's proposal undermines Social Security's long-term solvency. Repaying what's lost from general revenues is greatly impeded by the size of the deficit and planned austerity coming to reduce it.

(6) Maintaining the 2% cut indefinitely will cause massive benefit cuts and eliminate any chance for improving them, notably for society's poor and disadvantaged.

(7) Middle class households will also be harmed, violating Franklin Roosevelt's pledge that:

"We put those pay roll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program. Those taxes aren't a matter of economics, they're straight politics."

FDR never met Obama or congressional Republicans and Democrats. What he gave, they'll end, violating a government-mandated right.

(8) A payroll tax holiday is another step toward privatization, a sure way to kill it, the way 401(k)s destroyed private pensions, leaving workers at the mercy of marketplace uncertainties that can wipe out life savings during hard times.

Social Security Works concluded, saying:

"There are better ways to provide stimulus to the economy - and that do less harm to Social Security - than a tax holiday."

According to the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP), one way is by extending the 2009 Making Work Pay Tax Credit, adding much more stimulus than a payroll tax holiday. It gives workers a refundable tax credit, increasing the size of the paychecks. At 6.2% of earned income, it provides maximum $400 for working individuals, $800 for married taxpayers filing joint returns.

A payroll tax holiday is a bad idea any time, besides doing little to stimulate economic growth. "The most efficient way to boost consumer spending is to put money into the hands of people who will spend it quickly rather than save it." It's most effective when given to low and middle-income workers, not high-end ones who'll save, not spend, their windfall.

"A payroll tax holiday does not score well on this front - too little of the benefit goes to lower-income households struggling to make ends meet and too much goes to higher-income taxpayers, who are likely to save a significant (portion) of any new resources they receive."

Besides killing Social Security, that's the whole idea, of course, transferring more wealth to the rich, what Republicans and Democrats endorse, including Obama.

In contrast, the Making Work Pay Tax Credit poses no threat to Social Security. The payroll tax holiday may destroy it. Republicans signing on as a concession masks their real intent, the same one they've had since Social Security's enactment, a program they strongly opposed as well as Medicare in 1965. Now both parties oppose them.

A Final Comment

Obama's payroll tax holiday will drive a stake into Social Security's heart, or as Hall of Fame former baseball announcer Bob Prince used to call Pittsburgh Pirate home runs: "Kiss it goodbye." Fans cheered. Deathly silence will greet Obama's proposal once recipients know they've been scammed. Republicans and Democrats plan it unless an aroused public stops them.

Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago and can be reached at lendmanstephen@sbcglobal.net. Also visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com and listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network Thursdays at 10AM US Central time and Saturdays and Sundays at noon. All programs are archived for easy listening.

http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/the-progressive-news-hour/.

chad
13th December 2010, 09:43 AM
sure am glad i get to send in 15% of my profits every quarter to this. ::)

Apparition
13th December 2010, 09:47 AM
It's about time if some SS reductions are actually enacted.

The only bad part is that the ponzi scheme will most likely continue so that the gov't can use it to fund whatever moronic and frivolous policies it pursues.

Quixote2
13th December 2010, 09:49 AM
sure am glad i get to send in 15% of my profits every quarter to this. ::)


From my farming days, what are profits?

chad
13th December 2010, 09:55 AM
few things anger me more than this issue.

i'm self employed, so i get to pay the entire 15%.

let's see, take 15% of my money every year, my whole life, then tell me "sorry, we have to cut the program so you don't get anything back."

what incenses me even more is that none of the clown in congress are even part of the system. they get their own, special little program that isn't subject to "means testing."

willie pete
13th December 2010, 10:06 AM
^^^I think the rogues in Congress should be on the same plan as everyone else....most in Congress are completely dislocated though, I'd bet the average net-worth is several million dollars; being in that bracket changes your entire view

Ponce
13th December 2010, 10:14 AM
And this year we are sending and extra 285 millions to the state of Israel ON TOP of the 3-7 billions that we are already giving them.

Still Barbaro
13th December 2010, 10:19 AM
Social Security and Medicare are a complete DISASTER.

They have been mis-managed to the hilt.

They should have both been on the chopping block back in the 1960s.


I do NOT think they are on the chopping block. I am very doubtful. The gov is too f*cked up for common sense.

Twisted Titan
13th December 2010, 10:22 AM
Yet another reason to starve the best by holding as much hard currency as possible tax free

willie pete
13th December 2010, 10:24 AM
Social Security and Medicare are a complete DISASTER.

They have been mis-managed to the hilt.

They should have both been on the chopping block back in the 1960s.


I do NOT think they are on the chopping block. I am very doubtful. The gov is too f*cked up for common sense.


it always seemed like the definition of a ponzi/pyramid scheme to me...people paying now for some future "promised" benefit....isn't that what bernie was doing? :D :D

Ash_Williams
13th December 2010, 10:46 AM
This article is practically a joke.


Its seven principles include:

(1) Social Security didn't cause the federal deficit; it shouldn't be cut to reduce it;

(2) it shouldn't be privatized;

(3) it shouldn't be means-tested;

(4) future revenues should come by raising the payroll tax ceiling, requiring those earning more to pay their fair share;

(5) the retirement age shouldn't increase further;

(6) benefits shouldn't be cut, including by reducing annual inflation-adjusted increases; and

(7) benefits "should be increased for those who are most disadvantaged."

In short, Social Security (Medicare and Medicaid) should be strengthened to provide greater, not lower, future benefits.

So. Don't cut anything. Spend more. That will fix the system. These guys are brilliant.

We'll pay for it by raising the payroll ceiling "requiring those earning more to pay their fair share". Because putting another 113 Trillion (or whatever they said it was) onto people's tax bills is reasonable. And how is it that one person's "fair share" of the burden is far more than someone else's? That almost sounds unfair.

strengthensocialsecurity.org plan for reforestation: Cut down more trees. Don't plant new ones. If this idea fails, go cut down trees on a rich person's property.


A payroll tax holiday is a bad idea any time, besides doing little to stimulate economic growth. "The most efficient way to boost consumer spending is to put money into the hands of people who will spend it quickly rather than save it." It's most effective when given to low and middle-income workers, not high-end ones who'll save, not spend, their windfall.

"A payroll tax holiday does not score well on this front - too little of the benefit goes to lower-income households struggling to make ends meet and too much goes to higher-income taxpayers, who are likely to save a significant (portion) of any new resources they receive."

Translation: Give it to the poor who will quickly piss it away on made-in-china shit and/or booze, cola, junk food and smokes... that will help our economy and be good for medicare too.

I think these people also do not understand that no one "saves". Unless they are storing cash in their mattress they are not saving, they are putting the money into a pool where it is borrowed and spent by other people.

Book
13th December 2010, 10:50 AM
Translation: Give it to the poor who will quickly piss it away on made-in-china sh*t and/or booze, cola, junk food and smokes... that will help our economy and be good for medicare too.



Your parents are probably on Social Security - the topic of this thread.

Joe King
13th December 2010, 10:52 AM
Social Security and Medicare are a complete DISASTER.

They have been mis-managed to the hilt.

They should have both been on the chopping block back in the 1960s.


I do NOT think they are on the chopping block. I am very doubtful. The gov is too f*cked up for common sense.


it always seemed like the definition of a ponzi/pyramid scheme to me...people paying now for some future "promised" benefit....isn't that what bernie was doing? :D :D
Because that's exactly what it is.

I mean, what else would you call something that purports to invest the "money" of the new "investors", but in reality only uses it to pay current recipiants while also using accounting tricks so as to be able to spend the rest of it today?

Didn't Madoff use new investors "money" to pay back prior investors while skimming off the top for his own living expenses?

Didn't he go to jail for that?
...and for quite a long time?

So why are our Represenatives permitted to do so?

Aren't they the ones who enacted the very law that Madoff ran afoul of?




Also, as far as the article in the OP goes, SS is not a contract and the Supreme Court has already ruled that SS can be denied by Congress at any time it chooses.

Ares
13th December 2010, 10:58 AM
Your parents are probably on Social Security - the topic of this thread.

My grandparents are. We've gotten into many debates about social slavery. I don't care what I've put into it, the gov can keep it. ALLOW ME OUT. I want no part of it. Let me save for myself and my family. My grandparents don't seem to understand that line of thinking. I'm not sure what it is, was it because FDR was such a great f***ing guy or something? I don't get it, why would ANYONE in their right mind rely on the government for their retirement years knowing the history of governments the world over to cut benefits when they cannot afford the obligations?

Book
13th December 2010, 11:02 AM
ALLOW ME OUT. I want no part of it.



No argument here. It is a ponzi scheme. Generational pick-pocketing.

chad
13th December 2010, 11:05 AM
mine (on one side) are the same way. it's because of their point of reference:

1. born in 1930s or 1940s. no frame of reference because they were little kids.

2. teenagers in 1950s. greatest time in american history. party on garth.

3. in their 20s in the 1960s. an extension of the 50s, plus you're 20 something. woo-hoo time.

4. solidly working in the 1970s. everything is still pretty much okay so long as you avoid the 'nam, which is not hard because you're way above the draft age.

5. late 40s early 50s in the 1980s. first signs of trouble, but you still have money, nice house, etc.

6. 1990s. first decade of obvious scam going on, but YOU get SS benefits now, plus the stock market is making you a millionaire!

7. 2000s. fuck it, we're 70, how's wheel of fortune doing tonight?

chad
13th December 2010, 11:20 AM
and just to expound, here's my point of reference:

1. born in early 1970s. no point of reference because i was a kid.

2. teenage in 1980s. WTF all of my parents friends are losing their jobs but S&Ls get bailed out?

3. 20s in 1990s. WTF nafta? all the jobs are going away & i have $30k in student loan debt.

4. 30s in early 2000s. WTF tarp, talf, etc. and my ass needs to get taxed more? there still aren't any jobs.

you can see why i am an asshole towards the system whereas my grandparents' biggest concern is the saturday night steak special at BJ's.

Sparky
13th December 2010, 12:33 PM
The fundamental problem with social security is that it is an insurance program that's treated like a retirement program. It literally was meant to keep people out of the street. It should be paid out according to need, which means it should be subject to means testing. The whole idea that "I paid in my money for 40 years, so I should get it back" is ridiculous. Do you say that about your car insurance or your life insurance?

Now, if they treated it as such, they wouldn't need to tax you so much on it (7.5%, or 15% for self-employed). And it wouldn't be bankrupt. It started out as almost mathematically sound (i.e. non-ponzi) when the average life expectancy was 63. But somehow they did not adjust to that along the way. Done right, you should really only have to pay about half of your current cost, but only about 10-20% of people should be receiving it. This is so contrary to the current structure that I don't see how this is going to be resolved without a crisis.

chad
13th December 2010, 12:39 PM
sparky, imho, completely not even close to being the same thing.

i am not forced to buy life insurance, nor am i forced to buy car insurance. if i make the choice to buy them, i enter in to the contract knowing it is insurance, and i will not get it back if i do not file a claim.

quite the opposite with SS. if i work for a company, i must surrender 7% of my income with no say so from me. if i work independently, i must surrender 15% of my income with so say so from me. in neither of these scenarios am i offered the chance to "buy insurance;" it's simply stolen from me.

Ponce
13th December 2010, 12:47 PM
Chad? you got it........born in 1940 and all that did happen to me........don't forget the Disco era of the 70's, man oh man was that fun.........made my second fortune in the 90's (in six years) with my idea and my own company.....my first fortune was in 1980 with silver.

Book
13th December 2010, 12:48 PM
...my grandparents' biggest concern is the saturday night steak special at BJ's.



Without their Social Security check they would move in with their children. Be careful what you wish for...lol.

:o

Joe King
13th December 2010, 04:02 PM
The fundamental problem with social security is that it is an insurance program that's treated like a retirement program. It literally was meant to keep people out of the street. It should be paid out according to need, which means it should be subject to means testing. The whole idea that "I paid in my money for 40 years, so I should get it back" is ridiculous. Do you say that about your car insurance or your life insurance?

Now, if they treated it as such, they wouldn't need to tax you so much on it (7.5%, or 15% for self-employed). And it wouldn't be bankrupt. It started out as almost mathematically sound (i.e. non-ponzi) when the average life expectancy was 63. But somehow they did not adjust to that along the way. Done right, you should really only have to pay about half of your current cost, but only about 10-20% of people should be receiving it. This is so contrary to the current structure that I don't see how this is going to be resolved without a crisis.


Sorry, but it's always been a ponzi-scheme.


A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering returns other investments cannot guarantee, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the returns that a Ponzi scheme advertises and pays requires an ever-increasing flow of money from investors to keep the scheme going.


By definition, that is exactly what it is, because there is no real investment, and also requires an ever increasing base in order to just stay solvent.
i.e. they take your $ now in order to pay to current recipients, and then spend the excess while promising to tax you again in the future in order to make up the difference.

Ponzi-scheme through and through, with double taxation thrown in for good measure.
If a guy like Madoff ran it, he'd be in jail.

Sparky
13th December 2010, 04:31 PM
chad and joe...

I agree it's a Ponzi scheme, but it doesn't have to be if they do the actuarial work correctly. Like the insurance companies, if you correctly balance your revenue stream with the mathematics of your expected payouts, you can make it work. Problem is, they've over-promised the payout.

Chad, you make a good point that you don't HAVE to buy insurance. So in a sense, it is more like a tax, where you are given a defined benefit for which you must demonstrate need.

But rather than give a benefit of a lifetime annuity for everyone who doesn't die by some prescribed age, it should be insurance that simply ensures some minimal sustenance. That's essentially what the payout amount is now (i.e. $1200/month is not an exorbitant amount), but the problem is that they give it to everybody.

Let's say they only gave it to people with less than $500,000 total assets (including home). Then they could probably decrease the payroll deduction by half, or more. Now, if you don't want the government butting into your private assets, you don't have to apply for it.

This, of course, gets to the point of whether the government should be distributing wealth at all. But I think they should be providing assistance to certain severe levels of neediness, e.g. physically disabled (blind, paraplegic, Down's syndrome, etc.) and destitution.

How's that for a compromise?

oldmansmith
13th December 2010, 04:40 PM
You are forgetting all the "disabled" who collect but barely paid in, if at all. I am surrounded by them in my town. Originally, disabled meant people with both legs cut off; now it means people who drink too much, people who have "mental problems," and those too lazy to work but can afford a lawyer.

Mrs. Old and I are having a baby, and I told my father-in-law (80 years old) that I was going to stop working and be the stay at home dad. He said to be careful that it didn't reduce my social security....I laughed and told him that at 50, I figure a less than 50% chance of collecting a dime. And being self-employed, I have paid in over a hundred thousand dollars myself. It sucks to be at the bottom of the pyramid.

k-os
13th December 2010, 05:06 PM
You are forgetting all the "disabled" who collect but barely paid in, if at all. I am surrounded by them in my town. Originally, disabled meant people with both legs cut off; now it means people who drink too much, people who have "mental problems," and those too lazy to work but can afford a lawyer.

Mrs. Old and I are having a baby, and I told my father-in-law (80 years old) that I was going to stop working and be the stay at home dad. He said to be careful that it didn't reduce my social security....I laughed and told him that at 50, I figure a less than 50% chance of collecting a dime. And being self-employed, I have paid in over a hundred thousand dollars myself. It sucks to be at the bottom of the pyramid.



First, congratulations to you and the Mrs.!

You are right. The term "Disability" is whatever you pay for. If you hire a lawyer, or obtain some sort of advocate, you could receive "Disability" benefits for doing nothing, even if you are completely able bodied.

oldmansmith
13th December 2010, 05:14 PM
Thanks K-os, I'm in a bit of a panic being 50 and all and having my first baby, but we are in a good place physically and financially. I have to think of all these things I never had to think of before.....vaccinations, circumcision (if a boy), SS number. I'd like to opt out on the SS number and try to raise a free child if I can.

Sparky
13th December 2010, 05:24 PM
You are forgetting all the "disabled" who collect but barely paid in, if at all. I am surrounded by them in my town. Originally, disabled meant people with both legs cut off; now it means people who drink too much, people who have "mental problems," and those too lazy to work but can afford a lawyer.

Mrs. Old and I are having a baby, and I told my father-in-law (80 years old) that I was going to stop working and be the stay at home dad. He said to be careful that it didn't reduce my social security....I laughed and told him that at 50, I figure a less than 50% chance of collecting a dime. And being self-employed, I have paid in over a hundred thousand dollars myself. It sucks to be at the bottom of the pyramid.




Yes, Old, I was trying to make the point that "disabled" should mean really disabled. I'm willing to be taxed so that I can help support someone with both legs cut off, but not someone with Attention Deficit Disorder.

And congrats on the baby. And all this time I thought that you were old! I'm in your age range; I expect that Greenspan was right when he said that the Federal Government can guarantee that we will receive our Social Security payments, but they cannot guarantee its purchasing power.

Joe King
13th December 2010, 05:34 PM
You are forgetting all the "disabled" who collect but barely paid in, if at all. I am surrounded by them in my town. Originally, disabled meant people with both legs cut off; now it means people who drink too much, people who have "mental problems," and those too lazy to work but can afford a lawyer.

I had to lol when I read that as I too know some people who fit the latter and I also know someone who fits the former description and he does more and works harder than most anyone else I know of.


However, I have to ask, so what do we do with the ones that you say have the "mental problems" and aren't reasonably able to support themselves?
Let them become street dwellers to prey upon others and/or scavenge for food?

willie pete
13th December 2010, 05:40 PM
I don't know how many survivors are/were in the same position as Ida May Fuller, but I Know individuals Now that are...that is they've collected way more than they ever paid in...

Ida May Fuller (September 6, 1874 – January 1975) was the first American to receive a monthly benefit Social Security check. She received the check, amounting to $22.54, on January 31, 1940.

Fuller was born on a farm outside Ludlow, Vermont. She spent most of her life in Ludlow, working as a legal secretary, but lived with her niece in Brattleboro, Vermont, during her last eight years. She retired in 1939, having paid just three years of payroll taxes. She received monthly Social Security checks until her death in 1975 at age 100. By the time of her death, Fuller had collected $22,888.92 from Social Security monthly benefits, compared to her contributions of $24.75 to the system. ..Certainly not a bad return on a $24 dollar investment :D

Ponce
13th December 2010, 05:46 PM
Pete? sounds like me, I already collected about three times what I put into it.....in only eight years and with another sixty two more years to go.

willie pete
13th December 2010, 05:54 PM
Pete? sounds like me, I already collected about three times what I put into it.....in only eight years and with another sixty two more years to go.


Ponce...how'd you do that? ...you a magician? :D

SilverMagnet
13th December 2010, 06:25 PM
Could it not be any clearer that Americans are being stripped of liberty, prosperity and dignity? Still the ball rolls, the game continues with hardly a peep of protest.

Maybe there will be a discount of social services when the implanted biochips are mandatory. Early volunteers will likely be given a 10 minute head start at the Black Friday sales.

Still Barbaro
13th December 2010, 06:59 PM
And when it comes to Social Security,

We should note Obama and the GOP agreed to cut the SS payroll taxes to 4.5% (?), but will not cut the benefits.

Meaning, that the revenue coming in will be less, but the payouts will be the same.

SS payed out more than it took in this year. About 27 years ahead of schedule because of the higher unemployment, and slow economy.


This little carrot approach reveals once again, these mid-term elections were a joke. "Cutting Spending" was a lie, and it won't happen.

Book
13th December 2010, 07:11 PM
You are forgetting all the "disabled" who collect but barely paid in, if at all. I am surrounded by them in my town. Originally, disabled meant people with both legs cut off; now it means people who drink too much, people who have "mental problems," and those too lazy to work but can afford a lawyer.

I had to lol when I read that as I too know some people who fit the latter and I also know someone who fits the former description and he does more and works harder than most anyone else I know of.


However, I have to ask, so what do we do with the ones that you say have the "mental problems" and aren't reasonably able to support themselves? Let them become street dwellers to prey upon others and/or scavenge for food?



Give 'em free housing and food stamps so they can raise even more of the same.



Question
I am 7months pregnaant, and work as s temp, i currently have insurance thru the agency which doesnt cover much, but the day i stop work, my insurance ends too. Will i get medicaid when i go into delivery? or can i get medicare now for my prenatal visits?

Answer
Hi Hannah!

Each state has different guidelines for Medicaid......you must make less than a certain amount and have very few assets to qualify.

Go on to your states website and look up Medicaid. Most states allow you to fill out an application on line. Many states also have a pre qualifying application on line to see if you qualify.

I would start now looking into since it takes a few months for Medicaid to process your application.

Good Luck!
Tricia

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Medicare-Medicaid-Insurance-992/medicaid-6.htm

Joe King
13th December 2010, 07:22 PM
I don't know how many survivors are/were in the same position as Ida May Fuller, but I Know individuals Now that are...that is they've collected way more than they ever paid in...

Ida May Fuller (September 6, 1874 – January 1975) was the first American to receive a monthly benefit Social Security check. She received the check, amounting to $22.54, on January 31, 1940.

Fuller was born on a farm outside Ludlow, Vermont. She spent most of her life in Ludlow, working as a legal secretary, but lived with her niece in Brattleboro, Vermont, during her last eight years. She retired in 1939, having paid just three years of payroll taxes. She received monthly Social Security checks until her death in 1975 at age 100. By the time of her death, Fuller had collected $22,888.92 from Social Security monthly benefits, compared to her contributions of $24.75 to the system. ..Certainly not a bad return on a $24 dollar investment :D


Although she did make out pretty good $ wise, comparing amounts paid in vs amounts ultimately collected is like comparing apples and oranges.


SS is, and always has been a pay-as-you-go program of the federal gov and the actual $ amount you may ultimately collect has no direct connection to the $ amount you contributed.

SS "working" ::) depends upon two things. Monetary inflation and an exponentially increasing population in order to adequetaly support the required payments at the time in question so that the non-negtiable bonds held in Trust need never be redeemed.

cedarchopper
13th December 2010, 08:45 PM
Greenspan on Social Security: "We can guarantee cash, but we cannot guarantee purchasing power!"

1970 silver art
14th December 2010, 03:26 AM
Social Security and Medicare are FUBAR in my opinion. They have both been FURBAR for quite some time now. The Congresswhores are not going to do anything to "fix" it and I am certainly not going to see SS when I reach "retirement" age (67). If I am wrong and SS is still "alive" by the time I reach "retirement" age (67), then it will not buy very much if it is measured in U.S. $'s. That's assuming that the U.S. $ still exists 30 years from now which that is a stretch.

1970 silver art
14th December 2010, 03:35 AM
And when it comes to Social Security,

We should note Obama and the GOP agreed to cut the SS payroll taxes to 4.5% (?), but will not cut the benefits.

Meaning, that the revenue coming in will be less, but the payouts will be the same.

SS payed out more than it took in this year. About 27 years ahead of schedule because of the higher unemployment, and slow economy.


This little carrot approach reveals once again, these mid-term elections were a joke. "Cutting Spending" was a lie, and it won't happen.


"Cutting Spending" is the most popular lie that a Congresswhore can make. Technically they might have "cut spending" in a certain area of gov't but so what? Gov't will cut $10-$20 MILLION from one gov't program but will turn around and spend $10-$20 BILLION on another gov't program that the taxpayers did not ask for.

Oh BTW..........

Cutting SS payroll taxes but NOT cutting SS benefits = SS going bankrupt much sooner than expected.

Silver Shield
14th December 2010, 03:43 AM
All paper promises will be defaulted upon from SS to stocks to the dollar.

Got silver?

1970 silver art
14th December 2010, 03:49 AM
Could it not be any clearer that Americans are being stripped of liberty, prosperity and dignity? Still the ball rolls, the game continues with hardly a peep of protest.

Maybe there will be a discount of social services when the implanted biochips are mandatory. Early volunteers will likely be given a 10 minute head start at the Black Friday sales.




The Americans will NOT protest nor will they care because they are too busy trying to hang on to their jobs and to pay their bills. Even if they cared, then they are not going to do anything about it because it will "disrupt" their daily lives. Protesting and caring about SS and other important topics takes valuable time away from watching those wonderful TV programs such as "Biggest Loser" and "Dancing with the Stars".

One way to get the normal sheeple's attention is when the SS and other gov't checks stop coming but that will not be very pretty at all. The other way to get a sheeple's attention is to take away their TV's, Internet access, Twitter, FB, etc. That is not going to happen anytime soon.

1970 silver art
14th December 2010, 04:04 AM
few things anger me more than this issue.

i'm self employed, so i get to pay the entire 15%.

let's see, take 15% of my money every year, my whole life, then tell me "sorry, we have to cut the program so you don't get anything back."

what incenses me even more is that none of the clown in congress are even part of the system. they get their own, special little program that isn't subject to "means testing."


Since the Congresswhores do not have any "skin in the game" (i.e. not part of the SS system), then it will not fight for the "little man". However, the continuing dollar devaluation (and eventual collapse) will eventually affect them and their Congress pension will not mean squat if they not longer have the purchasing power to buy a week's worth of groceries.