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PatColo
18th December 2010, 09:26 PM
I haven't watched yet, but as to Ventura's CT show generally, from the ones I've seen, he provides generally solid info about dead serious PTB conspiracies; but there's something about the tabloid style of the show which trivializes the subject matter, as though it's just drama/entertainment-- not productive! Here's the 911blogger entry, see reader comments there,

Conspiracy Theory with Gov. Jesse Ventura- 911 Pentagon Attack(Full Episode) (http://911blogger.com/news/2010-12-18/conspiracy-theory-gov-jesse-ventura-911-pentagon-attackfull-episode#comments)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZ14NRbT-s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZ14NRbT-s

keehah
19th December 2010, 07:53 AM
I've read he swallowed Rumsfeld /11 no plane lie.

PatColo
19th December 2010, 10:30 AM
I've read he swallowed Rumsfeld /11 no plane lie.


I'm guessing from your cryptic quip above that you've swallowed the absurd "757 flown into the pentagon by Hani Hanjour" lie? A lie critical to maintain if one is to subsequently swallow the even more audacious "Scary Moozlems did 911" BIG LIE (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10142)... :oo-->

I've watched this episode now. Again, solid info presented in a melodramatic/tabloid way. But I do recommend watching it, to get a good overview of why "757 flown into the pentagon by Hani Hanjour" skeptics are so skeptical! At the 14:00 mark, they did give exposure to the C.I.T. flyover theory (http://gold-silver.us/forum/conspiracy-theories/citizen-investigation-team-national-security-alert/), which has caused so much divisiveness between 911 Truth Seekers, and 911 Truth Gatekeepers (http://gold-silver.us/forum/conspiracy-theories/citizen-investigation-team-national-security-alert/msg71390/#msg71390). But they don't dwell on the flyover theory, there's just a clip of one guy- NASA structural engineer Dwain Deets, saying that's what he thinks happened, then they move on.

Tabloid style aside, I give this episode a thumbs up and highly recommend watching! :D

keehah
19th December 2010, 11:08 AM
Well I'm glad to hear it is not central to the episode. I'll watch it tonight.

As to your comment, why is it critical no plane hit the pentagon? Why is it 'critical' believe Rumsfeld's missle 'misspeak'? To go against Occam's razor? (what happened to the missing plane then?).

IMO the planes were remote controlled by the same force that was able to get the entire North American Air Defense playing war games about the exact same thing that day and ensure a total stand down of the normal defenses (although I think one pilot went rogue and did his job after hearing about the other impacts). The planes were all 'fly by wire', the technology exists to fly them by remote control, and the company with access to this technology (US milgov and Norad agents) was playing up to 6 war games involving hyjacked commercial airliners at the same time in the same airspace.

To me the only thing critical about this is to ensure washington insiders, many of who saw the plane or know those that did, to dismiss the whole 9/11 conspiracy is a pile of stinking crap.

I always had the impression Jesse was aggressive, and naive (in a 'more muscle than brain' way). ;D

http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

The fact that "No Plane" is the cudgel being used against the 9/11 truth movement proves it is a counterproductive strategy for exposing real evidence of complicity. Whether these hoaxes are coming from deliberate disinformation agents, the aggressively naive, the gullible or the sloppy is not relevant, since the ONLY evidence for "no plane" is altered and misleading perspective photos.

"no plane" hoaxes discredit 9/11 "truth" and distract from evidence of complicity

"No plane at the Pentagon" has been the most popular hoax, and has been promoted the longest (since a few weeks after 9/11).


http://www.youtube.com/v/YVDdjLQkUV8

PatColo
19th December 2010, 09:01 PM
keehah, in your making your case for "a 757 really did hit the pentagon" above, you cite some of the very personalities who I referred to last June in reply #4 in the 'Citizen Investigation Team: National Security Alert' thread (http://gold-silver.us/forum/conspiracy-theories/citizen-investigation-team-national-security-alert/msg71738/#msg71738), but who I politely didn't name. I said:



Keehah, it's not an individual 911 truth seeker's belief that a boeing 757, even AA flight 77, flew into the pentagon, which is the problem. But there's been a shrillness, a willingness to employ the various rules of disinfo, from a cabal of "gatekeepers" who insist on the above despite the conspicuous absence of conclusive evidence, and they noisily insist everyone else ought to believe that too, or keep quiet so not to "hurt the movement". Check the 911blogger & wtcdemolition threads I point to above to get a feel for the game afoot WRT the pentagon question. You're welcome to believe the 757 story, I'm utterly unconvinced of it until further (video?!) evidence is forthcoming; just be cool about unproven beliefs you choose to hold, don't wield them like a club against those not on board. I'm not saying you've done this, but the "cabal" I'm speaking of has in many case blown their own "deep cover" by behaving in just this way as they labor to "steer" the movement in their bosses' desired direction.


I noticed you chose to bold the phrase "aggressively naive" in the Mark Robinowitz/oilempire quote you cited.

Following are some of the folks you're suggesting are aggressively naive, as they support alternative/better-evidenced theories re what did or didn't most-probably hit the pentagon:

CIT conference in Arlington VA, latest video endorsed by Richard Gage, Peter Dale Scott, Ed Asner, David Ray Griffin & more. (http://911blogger.com/node/20738)


"The exhaustive effort by Craig Ranke and Aldo Marquis of Citizen Investigation Team to contact, record, document, and analyze numerous first-hand eyewitness accounts of the actual flight path of the airliner at the Pentagon on 9/11 has been long overdue, but worth waiting for. The evidence they have uncovered and compiled in their DVD "National Security Alert" deserves serious attention - particularly in light of what we now know about the explosive destruction of the three World Trade Center high-rises that day."

-Richard Gage, AIA, Architect, Founder of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

“Citizen Investigation Team has produced an important documentary video that, using numerous independent witness accounts, successfully rebuts the official account of Flight 77’s flight path on 9/11 as it approached the Pentagon. It constitutes a further compelling reason for this country to investigate properly, for the first time, the full story of what happened on that day."

-Peter Dale Scott,
Former Canadian diplomat and English Professor at the University of California, Berkeley; Author, The Road to 9/11: Wealth, Empire, and the Future of America

“Citizen Investigation Team have presented a reasoned, and methodical look at witness testimony the day the Pentagon was attacked on Sept. 11th. As stated in their presentation, National Security Alert, it behooves every citizen of conscience to question the offical story after viewing CIT's labors towards seeking the truth of what happened that day in 2001".

-Edward Asner, Emmy Award Winning Actor, Former President of the Screen Actors Guild

“This new film by CIT is far more professionally produced than their previous efforts. It is also more convincing, given the addition of more witnesses, so that they now have a total of 13 witnesses reporting that the actual flight path of the plane that approached the Pentagon was drastically different from the official flight path (which would have been needed if the plane was to knock over the felled light poles and to strike the Pentagon at the designated spot and angle). This part of the film's thesis is now established beyond a reasonable doubt. The film does not establish its related claim---that the airliner pulled up and flew over the Pentagon---as clearly, but it does make a good case for it. One of the film's most valuable parts is a scene in which cab driver Lloyde England, who otherwise gamely tried to maintain the truth of his testimony supporting the official story, admitted that the Pentagon operation had been planned by powerful people with lots of money. I am pleased to be able to recommend this important film with enthusiasm."

-David Ray Griffin, Author of The New Pearl Harbor Revisited: 9/11, the Cover-Up, and the Exposé

"I was initially skeptical of CIT's findings. But after closer review of the numerous interviews contained in their documentaries, a strong case has been made for an approach trajectory for the plane said to be American Airlines Flight 77 that is hundreds of feet from the official trajectory. The on-scene physical evidence attributed to the official trajectory is incompatible with the trajectory repeatedly described by the witnesses presented and is arguably suspect. Aircraft speeds described in the interviews are also much lower than those alleged by official sources. CIT's documentaries provide the viewer with the transparency and real-time detail regarding events at the Pentagon on 9/11, not provided by accounts offered by the federal government or major media."

-Aidan Monaghan, Researcher

additionally,

Barrie Zwicker Endorses Citizen Investigation Team, Censored at 911blogger (http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=1412)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu5wzJtSMhc

Aeronautical engineer Dwain Deets endorses Citizen Investigation Team & their presentation "National Security Alert" (http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=1460):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYGkiYmVUmg&feature=player_embedded


"The Cabal" is hard at work at the 911blogger 'Conspiracy Theory with Gov. Jesse Ventura- 911 Pentagon Attack(Full Episode)' thread (http://911blogger.com/news/2010-12-18/conspiracy-theory-gov-jesse-ventura-911-pentagon-attackfull-episode) currently. They've kept the blog entry in the "blogs" section, like p.2 of a newspaper, where it'll see many fewer eyeballs, rather than a spot on the front "news" page where it would see the most readers. The cabal is unhappy that Ventura gave proper credence to the evidence that something other than a 757 hit the pentagon... :'( :-*

Cabal member "loose nuke" (Erik Larson) explains in this comment (http://911blogger.com/news/2010-12-18/conspiracy-theory-gov-jesse-ventura-911-pentagon-attackfull-episode#comment-243268)... :oo-->

Elsewhere, cabal member "YT" (aka "Cosmos", real name a seekrit, very dubious character (http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2963)) says in another comment (http://911blogger.com/news/2010-12-18/conspiracy-theory-gov-jesse-ventura-911-pentagon-attackfull-episode#comment-243286): "The News is that Jesse Ventura is CASHING IN on tragedy- and worse. It's a disgrace." :oo-->



Is Leading 9/11 Truth Site Working For The Other Side? (http://gold-silver.us/forum/conspiracy-theories/citizen-investigation-team-national-security-alert/msg132271/#msg132271)

keehah
19th December 2010, 09:13 PM
I don't seen anything there I would have issue with. As example: flight paths of the planes were wrong or missing. It was part of the Norad war game 'exercises' happing at the same time that were part of the 9/11 crime.
Do any of them insist it was a missile could not be a plane? If so why?

I hope you do understand I take issue with Rumfeld's missle bs because it prevents many people from taking 9/11 conspiracy seriously and thus helps cover up the crime of us (and associated) agents in making this happen.

PatColo
20th December 2010, 01:01 AM
Rummy's "missile oops I mean plane hit the pentagon" freudian slip is featherweight evidence vs the hard forensic & circumstantial evidence that something happened to the pentagon other than a 757 flying into it. Tim Roemer (911 Whitewash Commissioner) made the same missile/pentagon slip up, as you'll see the Roemer clip replayed in the Ventura/pentagon episode. These slips are just footnotes, I don't know any honest truthers who stress these verbal slip ups in researching & disseminating the pentagon, next case.

As to the plane and/or missile and/or bomb(s) @ pentagon question, I don't speak for anyone else and you can DYODD on what the people you're interested in think about the question. If I had to guess today on what really happened @ pentagon on 911, I'd say CIT's is presently the theory which best accounts for the body of evidence (http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/index.html), which includes some conflicting "eyewitness" evidence (Harley Guy?): some sort of plane with AA colors approached the pentagon, & actually flew over it extremely low, with bombs timed to blow exactly at time & supposed impact point where this plane first reached the pentagon. All "witness" eyeballs would've been fixated on the spectacular explosion. Many people in the area reported the area smelled like cordite aka gunpowder after the event.

It's all basically speculation- key question is, why is the pentagon still withholding the mountains of surveillance video of the the event which they still possess?? :conf: They could put so much speculation to rest that way!

Did you watch the Ventura/pentagon episode yet?

PatColo
20th December 2010, 09:01 PM
GORDON DUFF: GOV. JESSE VENTURA PROVES 9/11 COVER-UP, WILL AMERICA’S GOVERNMENT FALL? (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/12/18/gordon-duff-gov-jesse-ventura-proves-911-cover-up-will-americas-government-fall/)

PatColo
13th January 2012, 05:08 AM
this essay just appeared at wtcdemolition.com, whose owner: "Real Truther/Gretavo (http://www.bollyn.com/9-11-archive-2010#article_12910)" (< yes a dubious character himself) shares my skepticism over the "boeing really hit the pentagon" clique's strange insistence on their position,
Strange Obsession: 911Blogger and the Pentagon Mystery (http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/3320)

PatColo
23rd October 2012, 07:58 PM
Monday's TJ Radio show with Kevin barrett, 2 hrs, need to advance through breaks:
MP3 download (http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/archive/Truth-Jihad-32k-102212.mp3) (27 MBs)


Monday, October 22, 2012

Did a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11? (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/2012/10/did-boeing-757-hit-pentagon-on-911.html)


Mon. 10/22/12, 3-5 pm Central, American Fre (http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/)edom R (http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/)adio (http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/) (archived here (http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/Barrett_12.html).)



http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/Photos/Shelton%20Lankford%20260%20JPG80.jpg


Shelton Lankford, USMC


Guests: Ex-Marine officer Shelton Lankford, #1 9/11 blogger Craig McGee, and YOU! Call-in lines are OPEN! 218-339-8525

Did a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11?

The official story says yes - but abundant evidence (http://donaldfox.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/barb-honeggers-vancouver-powerpoint/) shows that this is, shall we say, highly unlikely.

At the beginning of 2002, just a few months after 9/11, the original 9/11 truth mega-force, Thierry Meyssan, wrote the biggest blockbuster in French publishing history, L'Effrayeuse imposture, proving the Pentagon wasn't hit by a big plane. Meyssan convinced the whole Muslim world that 9/11 was a fraud. His book was the most important single factor leading to France's refusal to join the US war on Iraq. Meyssan's bestseller was perhaps the most important and influential 9/11 truth book of all time, because it came out early enough to have a major impact on history.

Since then, the disinfo operators have been targeting Meyssan, and trying to obfuscate the obvious fact that no 757 hit the Pentagon. (My recent radio guest Ken Jenkins (http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/archive/Truth-Jihad-32k-101012.mp3) is not one of those operators - he's just honestly mistaken in asserting that his misguided friends have a case, when they don't.)



http://truthandshadows.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/craig-headshot.jpg?w=315&h=420 (http://truthandshadows.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/craig-headshot.jpg)


Craig McKee


Today I'll be taking calls on this issue, as well as discussing it with former Marine officer and Pilots for 9/11 Truth (http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/) member Shelton Lankford, who quit the 9/11 consensus panel (http://www.consensus911.org/)because it seemed bent on obscuring the obvious fact that there IS a consensus within the truth movement that no 757 hit the Pentagon, and that CIT's research (http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/) is solid; and Craig McKee (https://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/), who has replaced a certain tarnished website to become THE "9/11 blogger."

Note: David Ray Griffin's book 9/11: Ten Years Later (http://davidraygriffin.com/books/911-ten-years-later-when-state-crimes-against-democracy-succeed/) does a good job discussing the Pentagon evidence and showing why the case for a 757 hit doesn't stand up to critical reflection. Unfortunately, he takes far too seriously the handful of people (several of whom have infiltrated "gatekeeper" positions) who pose as "truthers who think a 757 did hit the Pentagon." That's a lot like the "truthers who think WTC-7 (http://www.whathappenedtobuilding7.org/) fell down from office fires." By taking these clowns seriously, David inadvertently supports the illusion that there is a legitimate debate on this issue within the truth movement. And there's no better way to stir up destructive intra-movement fights than by making ridiculous assertions, like "a 757 hit the Pentagon" or "Basiago teleported to Mars with Barack Obama and encountered carniverous martian plesiosaurs (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/01/now-it-can-be-told-the-real-reason-obama-was-nearly-devoured-by-carnivorous-plesiosaurs-on-mars/)."



http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/hole.jpg


A carbon-fiber 757 nose did THIS? After traveling through three rings of the Pentagon, as shown below?!


http://911review.org/images/aerial16.jpg
Posted by Kevin Barrett (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11522769898898884227) at 10:58 AM No comments: (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/2012/10/did-boeing-757-hit-pentagon-on-911.html#comment-form)

Labels: 757 (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/search/label/757), 9/11 (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/search/label/9%2F11), CIT (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/search/label/CIT), craig mckee (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/search/label/craig%20mckee), David Ray Griffin (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/search/label/David%20Ray%20Griffin), hunt the boeing (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/search/label/hunt%20the%20boeing), Ken Jenkins (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/search/label/Ken%20Jenkins), no boeing (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/search/label/no%20boeing), Pentagon (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/search/label/Pentagon), shelton lankford (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/search/label/shelton%20lankford), thierry meyssan (http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/search/label/thierry%20meyssan)

PatColo
25th April 2014, 10:15 PM
I was hunting for an old post, and ended up in this thread. The 2nd two links below point to Hatha's old CIT thread.


I'm guessing from your cryptic quip above that you've swallowed the absurd "757 flown into the pentagon by Hani Hanjour" lie? A lie critical to maintain if one is to subsequently swallow the even more audacious "Scary Moozlems did 911" BIG LIE (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10142)... :oo-->

I've watched this episode now. Again, solid info presented in a melodramatic/tabloid way. But I do recommend watching it, to get a good overview of why "757 flown into the pentagon by Hani Hanjour" skeptics are so skeptical! At the 14:00 mark, they did give exposure to the C.I.T. flyover theory (http://gold-silver.us/forum/conspiracy-theories/citizen-investigation-team-national-security-alert/), which has caused so much divisiveness between 911 Truth Seekers, and 911 Truth Gatekeepers (http://gold-silver.us/forum/conspiracy-theories/citizen-investigation-team-national-security-alert/msg71390/#msg71390). But they don't dwell on the flyover theory, there's just a clip of one guy- NASA structural engineer Dwain Deets, saying that's what he thinks happened, then they move on.

Tabloid style aside, I give this episode a thumbs up and highly recommend watching! :D


But Hatha's old CIT thread is gone, ?!?:|~ It had some good discussion. I was seeking a reply from me in that thread, describing my view of the pentagon question as being a synthetically-fabricated wedge issue in the 911 TM.

I found Hatha's old thread on the wayback machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20101117084356/http://gold-silver.us/forum/conspiracy-theories/citizen-investigation-team-national-security-alert/

I was seeking that post to make the comparison between the contrived pentagon wedge; and the current wedge in "The TM" over SHoax & Boston Hoax, which has successfully led to lots of unproductive infighting; to wit:
Thread: Spingola Jumps Shark, Supports Zion.gov's Official Sandy Hook Story (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?75243-Spingola-Jumps-Shark-Supports-Zion-gov-s-Official-Sandy-Hook-Story)


I used the comparison in the following reply @ mami's blog, in response to fauxcapitalist/Jason Erb (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2014/04/jeff-rense-radio-show-20140424.html?showComment=1398481731588#c786712983 8872243163). However, mami's mod "zapopper" has a history of deleting/censoring replies which diverge from his views (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?60988-great-truth-radio-podcast-blog-no-commercials!&p=698738&viewfull=1#post698738). So pasting here for posterity, as it's also relevant in this thread of course:



Pat Colo (http://www.blogger.com/profile/13211839490699366177) said...

faux/Jason, firstly a thanks for your various podcast timeline reviews; I've benefited a lot from them, in some cases saving me the time of listening to a podcast which I wasn't enthusiastic about hearing, but alas there may be some nugget in there; you know what I'm saying, so thanks man! :)

Several years before this current synthetically-fabricated "wedge" in the TM over ostensible disagreement re SHoax & Boston; there was the similarly fabricated wedge over the "what, if anything, hit the pentagon?" controversy, where a cabal of established, Brand Name Truthers™ incl RDawstein, MRivero, JHoffman, KJenkins & others sought to drive a wedge in the TM, with a conspicuously-hollow campaign insisting that a big commercial airliner really did fly into the pentagon on 911 morning. For just a taste of that, check KBarrett's "Tales of Jim Hoffman" (yes, jooOOooh...):
http://truthjihad.blogspot.com/2010/06/tales-of-hoffman.html

The contrived "what hit the pentagon?" wedge issue above, fits the same mold as the current contrived wedge over SHoax & Boston Hoax. Just yesterday I posted this hypothesis re what's going on there (applies to pentagon also), ref:
http://tinyurl.com/myphwo9
_________________

I believe Delphi, Glenn, Piper, KJohnson, Tillawi, AJMcDonald, "Wade", (& whoever I'm forgetting), who profess to hold the belief that EITHER SHoax AND/OR Boston Hoax took place as joozmedia.gov have purported-- even while they are ostensibly at odds with each other in their conflicting professed beliefs; that they are ALL in cahoots, frauds, "Sunstein Cognitive Infiltration Agents", employed by the dark side, to sow chaos/confusion/doubt/cognitive-dissonance/disunity/infighting within the TM.

And yes, their dark-side employers count upon honest Truthers being loyal to their favored "Brand Name Truther Personality" first, and the evidence 2nd if at all. That's why I like to put "proclaimed" or "professed" before citing their ostensible "belief(s)".

[4 replies later (#414), clarifying]:
As I said above, this all adds up to TPTB's intended outcome that their agents, who I defined in my reply 410 above, sow chaos/confusion/doubt/cognitive-dissonance/disunity/infighting within the TM, as honest Truthers (are encouraged to, are baited into, at least) taking sides based principally on the view espoused by their favorite Brand-Name Truther™ (agent).

One point to clarify though-- where I said they're all in cahoots, I don't mean necessarily that these low-level agents are in active cahoots with one another. Rather, I believe it's TPTB at the top giving each agent their tailored marching orders as to what they're to profess to believe about each fake "event", with TPTB hoping to achieve the chaos/etc outcome within the TM stated above. If my hypothesis is correct, I'd say TPTB have scored at least a partial victory.
April 25, 2014 at 11:08 PM (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2014/04/jeff-rense-radio-show-20140424.html?showComment=1398481731588#c786712983 8872243163)

Santa
26th April 2014, 05:49 AM
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive!"

Jewboo
17th February 2016, 12:51 PM
http://img.ifcdn.com/images/32274db09fe4561d2e42b1192aa9544fc1308c3261d2df5900 1002d4883f3aba_1.jpg