what happens when the fed's charter expires in 2 years?

[chad]

are we obligated to pay the fed back if the charter is allowed to expire? what happens to all of that debt?

[palani]

What debt?

[chad]

here's another fed question: since our "money" is just federal reserve notes and is not backed by anything, what happens when the fed charter expires? do these coupons just expire?

[Cebu_4_2]

Just like old soup, throw it away and make more.

[Twisted Titan]

How long was the Feds Charter???

Is this Orignal going back to the 20's??


T

[chad]

How long was the Feds Charter???

Is this Orignal going back to the 20's??


T


yeah, i think it was a 100 year charter, expires in 2013. what happens to a big pile of federal reserve notes in 2 years? they just expire and you throw them away? i mean, if there's no fed, what good is a fed note? i realize it's worthless to people like us now, but this is kind of a serious question for the masses. i mean if there's no x or y company, isn't their stock then just crap?

maybe this type of questioning should be brought to cnbc.

[horseshoe3]

It will get re-chartered. Some congressman will throw a 1/2 page amendment into a 2000 page bill and no one important will notice. Those of us who do notice will be vilified and ignored in turn.

[Serpo]

How long was the Feds Charter???

Is this Orignal going back to the 20's??


T


yeah, i think it was a 100 year charter, expires in 2013. what happens to a big pile of federal reserve notes in 2 years? they just expire and you throw them away? i mean, if there's no fed, what good is a fed note? i realize it's worthless to people like us now, but this is kind of a serious question for the masses. i mean if there's no x or y company, isn't their stock then just crap?

maybe this type of questioning should be brought to cnbc.


I guess going for another 100yr charter is out of the question :ROFL: :sun:

[Twisted Titan]

It will get re-chartered. Some congressman will throw a 1/2 page amendment into a 2000 page bill and no one important will notice. Those of us who do notice will be vilified and ignored in turn.



What ever happened to the Twenty year Charter???

That was the only weapon that jackson had to break the back of the Bank of the United States

[chad]

It will get re-chartered. Some congressman will throw a 1/2 page amendment into a 2000 page bill and no one important will notice. Those of us who do notice will be vilified and ignored in turn.



What ever happened to the Twenty year Charter???

That was the only weapon that jackson had to break the back of the Bank of the United States


those were for the first two iterations of the fed. the current one was 99 years long and expires on december 21, 2012.

[Twisted Titan]

It will get re-chartered. Some congressman will throw a 1/2 page amendment into a 2000 page bill and no one important will notice. Those of us who do notice will be vilified and ignored in turn.






What ever happened to the Twenty year Charter???

That was the only weapon that jackson had to break the back of the Bank of the United States


Could you imagine a president bellowing the words of Jackson as he pulled the plug ???



Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves!!!!!

[RJB]

Really good, witty, knowledgeable posts. It's why I come here.

[sirgonzo420]

those were for the first two iterations of the fed. the current one was 99 years long and expires on december 21, 2012.


looks like a lot will be going on on that day...


:o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon

[Serpo]

What the 21 dec 2012..........


How 1000 eggs becomes 105 eggs, or 6405 eggs

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1292826168.php

-
Unlike most Americans who are thrilled by new Xbox games or IPhone apps, econ geeks like me are excited by new economic data discoveries.

Recently I found
http://www.gti.net/mocolib1//prices/allyrs.html, a web site that has prices in the average US town of Morristown, New Jersey going back to 1900.

It’s a mother load of data from the last 110 years of what typical consumer items have cost in gold or silver backed money before 1971, and fiat bankster fraud money after 71.

This 110 year price history shows beyond even the smallest shadow of a doubt the power of fiat money to, with near invisibility, rob Americans blind over many decades.

My focus was data from 1913 to 2010, the tragic lifespan to date of America's greatest failure: The Federal Reserve bankster fiat looting system.

For example, in 1913 a $20 bill was equal to approximately 1 ounce of gold and would buy you: 100 lbs of chicken, or 57 lbs of coffee, or 1000 eggs, or 133 lbs of beef, or 16 men’s shoes, or 250 bars of soap.

In 2010 a $20 fiat paper money bill will buy you: 15 lbs of chicken, or 3.63 lbs. of coffee, or 105 eggs, or 5.01 lbs of beef, or 72% of one mans shoe, or 20 bars of soap.

In 2010 an ounce of gold (avg. price of $1220 ) will buy you 732 lbs of chicken, or 221 lbs. of coffee, or 6405 eggs, or 306 lbs. of beef or 44 men’s shoes, or 1220 bars of soap.

While the buying power of paper money fell by 80% to 95% the buying power of gold money has increased 250% to 700% when buying many such basic items.

It boggles the mind for econ geeks like me to conger just how affluent the average American would be now if we NEVER passed the Federal Reserve act and kept gold and silver coin and redeemable- for-precious-metals note dollars.

The difference over the last 97 years is tens of trillions of dollars American consumers have been robbed of as prices went up BECAUSE the value of their fiat money went down. Worse yet, every trillion of fiat dollars created out of thin air bought a trillion of real assets that are owned by, you guessed it, Banksters.

There is no doubt, every increase in the total supply of money criminal Federal Reserve banksters have created out of thin air dilutes the purchasing power of the dollar and robs the poor and middle class with monetary-caused inflation.

Of course, wealthy people (myself included) are the beneficiaries of monetary inflation because we own assets whose values are inflated.

As an example, If bankster caused monetary inflation makes gas prices go up $1 a gallon it can easily cost a poor or middle class consumer $100-$200 a month. However, a well diversified wealthy person, also pays the higher gas tab, but is offset by, big gains in their energy holdings.

Every energy price increase even makes solar panels of the affluent more valuable.

The bottom line is that bankster-caused monetary inflation is, plain and simple, a nearly invisible looting scheme that robs from the poor and middle to the benefit of the already asset wealthy.

Just 5 years ago less than 1 million Americans understood this looting scheme, now at least 50-100 million do.

Not only is the criminal Federal Reserve system well on the way to being fully outed, its public enemy #1, Congressman Dr. Ron Paul, author of the best selling book, "End the Fed", is now the chairman of the congressional committee in charge of oversight of the Federal Reserve. There will be hearings about a Fed audit, giveaways to foreign banks, and other looting schemes.

It's too soon to tell if the ultra-polite 75 year old Dr. Paul has the stones to go postal on bankster Bernanke and the Fed now that he has the power to grind the Fed into the dirt.

If Dr. Paul asked for my advice it would be, it’s a mistake to be polite to monetary criminals in $1000 suits or try to gradually grind them into the dirt. Instead, by any means available, KILL the Fed that’s raped the American people for 97 years deader than a doornail - and do it quickly.

"Paul kills Fed dead" needs to be as well known as "Raid kills bugs dead".

Michael "Woody" O'Brien ChFC

[Horn]

Pretty good one there, Serpo.

[palani]

yeah, i think it was a 100 year charter, expires in 2013.

Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913. It was a 20 year charter set to expire in 1933. By mere happenstance (no conspiracy at all) the Great Depression started 5 years before the expiration of the Federal Reserve Act. Upon assurances that the Fed would never again create a monetary war the charter was extended (aka Law was defeated without a shot being fired). As far as I know there is no "100 year" expiration date. You destroy this agency by not accepting their fiat currency.

[Twisted Titan]

The bottom line is that bankster-caused monetary inflation is, plain and simple, a nearly invisible looting scheme that robs from the poor and middle to the benefit of the already asset wealthy.


Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security but [also] at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth.


Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.


Manard Keyes.

[RJB]

Maynard Keynes.I learned about this creep in college Macro-economics 20 year ago. For years, I believed what I was taught that his ideas work in theory, but politicians messed it up.

Reading posts like this piss me off! That SOB KNEW what he was putting forth was doomed to fail! The "professors" know well and good that Keynes is a fraud and yet it's still forced into people's heads that he's a great economist.

[chad]

it's truly shocking when you step back and look at how long + on how many levels this has been planned- for DECADES.

i still want to know what happens to federal reserve notes if the fed goes away, though. ;)

[Plastic]

i still want to know what happens to federal reserve notes if the fed goes away, though. ;)



They will be recycled and turned into off color poopie suits for toxic spill cleanup, at least then they will have real value.

[palani]

it's still forced into people's heads that he's a great economist.

The "economy" is entirely owned by the government. There is no economy that is not owned by the government.

To support this statement consider the following concept:

You live in a city. You rely upon and support MUNI government. The MUNI has a budget. Divide the total budget by the number of people served. (? $500 ?).

You live in a county. You rely upon and support COUNTY government. The COUNTY has a budget. Divide the total budget by the number of people served (? $500 ?).

You live in a state. You rely upon and support STATE government. The STATE has a budget. Divide the total budget by the number of people served (? $3,000 ?)

You SUBSCRIBE to a FEDERATION. You rely upon and support the FEDERATION government. The FEDERATION has a budget. Divide the total budget by 320,000,000 people served (? $14,000 ?)

Add up your contribution to each government and your total is $18,000. However this is per person. A family of four would owe $72,000 (on an average basis).

I would submit that there is no economic activity that is POSSIBLE to occur EXCEPT FOR government. There simply aren't any excess funds available.

[Twisted Titan]

Maynard Keynes.I learned about this creep in college Macro-economics 20 year ago. For years, I believed what I was taught that his ideas work in theory, but politicians messed it up.

Reading posts like this piss me off! That SOB KNEW what he was putting forth was doomed to fail! The "professors" know well and good that Keynes is a fraud and yet it's still forced into people's heads that he's a great economist.





Economist are paid to distort the truth and protect the Userer with the ficticons paper money that is created out of thin air.

Now you see why Banks have some of the biggest building around....they want to cultivate a aura of infallibity and stabilty where there is none ....... they sell the illusion hard.

[Libertytree]

I read something similar to this awhile back but the juxt of it is that to terminate the charter all that had to be done is pay them their seigniorage and at that time the charter is over. I don't know if there's any validity to this at all.

"United States Federal Reserve Bank which basically rules over the finances of
America, does not intend to renew the 100 year charter granted to them on December
23, 1913 by the US Congress and is set to expire on December 21, 2012.
It expires on the 21st because of the occurrence of a leap century during the
course of the Charter, because of the legal definition of a year.
For the job of controlling the Nations money supply, the Federal Reserve gets
paid a fee known as Seigniorage. This fee is not paid to them in Federal Reserve
Notes. They refuse to accept them as payment because they know they are worth
nothing. They are paid in Gold Certificates which are redeemable for only one
thing, GOLD! The whole conspiracy was sinister and slow. Take 1% of the Nations gold as
payment every year so nobody will notice. 1% is a small amount for a year,
however that only lasts 100 years before it is all gone."

[chad]

I read something similar to this awhile back but the juxt of it is that to terminate the charter all that had to be done is pay them their seigniorage and at that time the charter is over. I don't know if there's any validity to this at all.

"United States Federal Reserve Bank which basically rules over the finances of
America, does not intend to renew the 100 year charter granted to them on December
23, 1913 by the US Congress and is set to expire on December 21, 2012.
It expires on the 21st because of the occurrence of a leap century during the
course of the Charter, because of the legal definition of a year.
For the job of controlling the Nations money supply, the Federal Reserve gets
paid a fee known as Seigniorage. This fee is not paid to them in Federal Reserve
Notes. They refuse to accept them as payment because they know they are worth
nothing. They are paid in Gold Certificates which are redeemable for only one
thing, GOLD! The whole conspiracy was sinister and slow. Take 1% of the Nations gold as
payment every year so nobody will notice. 1% is a small amount for a year,
however that only lasts 100 years before it is all gone."


holy smokes. this would explain the constantly talking down of gold- you want to save it for your seiniorage, not the plebs.

[Ponce]

I don't know anythng about finances but.......if the Fed created money out of nothing then we owe then nothing.

[Twisted Titan]

I read something similar to this awhile back but the juxt of it is that to terminate the charter all that had to be done is pay them their seigniorage and at that time the charter is over. I don't know if there's any validity to this at all.

"United States Federal Reserve Bank which basically rules over the finances of
America, does not intend to renew the 100 year charter granted to them on December
23, 1913 by the US Congress and is set to expire on December 21, 2012.
It expires on the 21st because of the occurrence of a leap century during the
course of the Charter, because of the legal definition of a year.
For the job of controlling the Nations money supply, the Federal Reserve gets
paid a fee known as Seigniorage. This fee is not paid to them in Federal Reserve
Notes. They refuse to accept them as payment because they know they are worth
nothing. They are paid in Gold Certificates which are redeemable for only one
thing, GOLD! The whole conspiracy was sinister and slow. Take 1% of the Nations gold as
payment every year so nobody will notice. 1% is a small amount for a year,
however that only lasts 100 years before it is all gone."


holy smokes. this would explain the constantly talking down of gold- you want to save it for your seiniorage, not the plebs.



The only way to cancel a debt is one of two ways:

Repudiation or

Gold or Silver as payment.

Thankfully both remedies are avaible to GSUS members

[Ponce]

Titan? all that I can say is that I am proud to be part of a bunch of crazy A-holes that think and act like I do, in the coming years I will invite you all to my "Silver Island" for a one week visit.....I might even pay for the travel expenses.........will see ;D

[Serpo]

I don't know anythng about finances but.......if the Fed created money out of nothing then we owe then nothing.


Not out of nothing ,out of thin air the fed is owed thin air and its getting thinner

[Libertytree]

I don't know anythng about finances but.......if the Fed created money out of nothing then we owe then nothing.


Not out of nothing ,out of thin air the fed is owed thin air and its getting thinner


Seems to me they've already gotten well over their pound of flesh!

[Horn]

I don't know anythng about finances but.......if the Fed created money out of nothing then we owe then nothing.


I've never felt indebted for some reason, that is the front edge of the fiat sword.

Wake me up when the Chinese land in down town L.A.

[steel_ag]

Titan? all that I can say is that I am proud to be part of a bunch of crazy A-holes that think and act like I do, in the coming years I will invite you all to my "Silver Island" for a one week visit.....I might even pay for the travel expenses.........will see ;D


Offer accepted.

[Ponce]

I now know that with my offer I'll be getting a lot of "friends" hahahahahahah, hey Book? where are you LOL.

[chad]

ponce, i'll be there ;D

[Libertytree]

You better show up with your own TP supply or he'll probably charge you a silver dime, per square ;D

[Horn]

Titan? all that I can say is that I am proud to be part of a bunch of crazy A-holes that think and act like I do, in the coming years I will invite you all to my "Silver Island" for a one week visit.....I might even pay for the travel expenses.........will see ;D


This wouldn't happen to be that small island off the South Korean coast would it? :D

[Joe King]

What debt?
You know, it's the stuff they use to measure our so-called wealth. :D

[Joe King]

here's another fed question: since our "money" is just federal reserve notes and is not backed by anything, what happens when the fed charter expires? do these coupons just expire?
It is backed by something.
i.e. your sweat and the govs ability to extract sufficient "money" via taxation in order to service the debt enough to keep rolling it over.

[Silver Shield]

I have never heard the Fed charter is set to expire.

Somebody got some proof?

[FunnyMoney]

I liked reading the thread, it was a fun read.

But unfortunately, and with all due respect to the very hopeful wishes of GSUS members for a return to honesty and sanity, it's not quite so rosy. Fiat money has been adopted around the globe and although it looks as if the US dollar will drop a few rungs in terms of most desired medium of exchange around the world, it does not appear that the owners of fiat money are at all willing to let anything expire.

It's quite a racket owning the medium of exchange and controlling every aspect of what the world uses to trade, borrow, save and spend with. If you think that collapsing the system spells a switch to honest money or that the owners of the money and the money systems will relinquish control without much of a fight, then again I'm sorry to have to say, that that's not at all likely.

The loss of liberty and the failure to protect freedom and free systems has gone on for so long and has travelled so far down the road toward full and complete slavery that now it will be a huge accomplishment to just get a spark started.

Basically with the way things are today, you would need about 80% of the world's workers to suddenly and nearly all at once reject all taxation and demand payment in metals or tangible things of value. Even that would start a fight that might result in the destruction of the planet, so entrenched and powerful are the controllers of today.

I am all for the pursuit of plan A, I have regained some "hope" you might say. I give plan A a 1 to 2 percent chance of coming to pass prior to the eventual arrival of 100% slavery.

Make sure you have a plan B.