ATF requests 'emergency powers' for all weapons over .22 caliber

[wallew]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpvYoFQumPU

Don't even pay attention to anything on the screen EXCEPT THE TICKER AT THE BOTTOM. You will see that the ATF is requesting 'emergency powers' to restrict the sales of firearms (ostensibly only gun dealers on the US/Mexico border) of a caliber larger than .22 - which is interesting because one of the 'hot new' calibers is the .17HMR - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HMR

But to their thinking, they are basically attempting to curtail ALL SALES of firearms. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE. And neither BHO or the ATF has the legal standing to actually claim that they CAN CONTROL THIS.

Go look up 'THE DICK ACT OF 1902' on Google. That should make your eyes bleed after seeing this.

[palani]

Stabbed in the dick (act) again!

Don't discount the power of a .22. You might not want it to stop a grizzly charge but it will kill a cow.

[General of Darkness]

Stabbed in the dick (act) again!

Don't discount the power of a .22. You might not want it to stop a grizzly charge but it will kill a cow.


I really need to get myself a .22. I pretty much have everything I want other than a bolt action .308

The .22 is the Everyman's Rifle.

[Ponce]

Kind of funny because I did a hell of a lot more damge with a .22 than with a regular rifle.......you ever seen the "America 180" in action?.........specially with a sound suppresor.

[Gaillo]

The lowly .22 LR has put many dicks in the dirt... ;)

[Twisted Titan]

The 22 sounds like a cap gun and it wont exit the body but will start to tumble off stuff inside making you bleed like swiss cheese

very dangerous firearm.

T

[Son-of-Liberty]

sub-sonic .22 has it's uses.

[SilverMagnet]

More info on this here: http://patdollard.com/2010/12/atf-pushes-emergency-measure-requiring-reporting-of-semi-automatic-rifle-sales/



So instead of pulling troops out of Afghanistan to focus on border security which is the real threat, the ATF is going after individual gun buyers in the U.S. to stop gun smuggling into Mexico for a problem with Mexican drug cartels there?

Our government seeks to rectify problems outside of our borders while stripping the rights of citizens within our own borders, meanwhile leaving said border wide open.

If I were reading these events in a book, I would have to classify it as fiction. But strangely enough, this is reality. And it's being marketed as a bestseller to the flocks of mindless sheep that have been corporately groomed.

[Low_five]

Stabbed in the dick (act) again!

Don't discount the power of a .22. You might not want it to stop a grizzly charge but it will kill a cow.


I dont mean to argue with you, because you probably can kill a cow with a .22 if you think about it long and hard, but my friend traded some deer meat for some cow meat, and he got to pick the cow and kill it. All told, the cow needed 6 bullets, with the final blow being a 375hh to the head. He also shot a killer whale with an AK47. Another friend went to Cambodia and paid 5 dollars to explode a cow with a hand grenade. Then the villagers came and collected the meat and ate it.

[Gaillo]

Stabbed in the dick (act) again!

Don't discount the power of a .22. You might not want it to stop a grizzly charge but it will kill a cow.


I dont mean to argue with you, because you probably can kill a cow with a .22 if you think about it long and hard, but my friend traded some deer meat for some cow meat, and he got to pick the cow and kill it. All told, the cow needed 6 bullets, with the final blow being a 375hh to the head. He also shot a killer whale with an AK47. Another friend went to Cambodia and paid 5 dollars to explode a cow with a hand grenade. Then the villagers came and collected the meat and ate it.


Then there was this one time... at band camp... ;D

[dead precedent]

Stabbed in the dick (act) again!

Don't discount the power of a .22. You might not want it to stop a grizzly charge but it will kill a cow.


I dont mean to argue with you, because you probably can kill a cow with a .22 if you think about it long and hard, but my friend traded some deer meat for some cow meat, and he got to pick the cow and kill it. All told, the cow needed 6 bullets, with the final blow being a 375hh to the head. He also shot a killer whale with an AK47. Another friend went to Cambodia and paid 5 dollars to explode a cow with a hand grenade. Then the villagers came and collected the meat and ate it.


I hope your friend lives to be 105 and has to shit every ten minutes for that Orca.

[Low_five]

Stabbed in the dick (act) again!

Don't discount the power of a .22. You might not want it to stop a grizzly charge but it will kill a cow.


I dont mean to argue with you, because you probably can kill a cow with a .22 if you think about it long and hard, but my friend traded some deer meat for some cow meat, and he got to pick the cow and kill it. All told, the cow needed 6 bullets, with the final blow being a 375hh to the head. He also shot a killer whale with an AK47. Another friend went to Cambodia and paid 5 dollars to explode a cow with a hand grenade. Then the villagers came and collected the meat and ate it.


Then there was this one time... at band camp... ;D


Now that I read it, what I wrote sounds fantastic, but its all true.

And about that killer whale, him and his pod were picking all the halibut off the long line, which was causing them to have to fish twice as much halibut. They steered clear afterwards.

[gunDriller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpvYoFQumPU

Don't even pay attention to anything on the screen EXCEPT THE TICKER AT THE BOTTOM. You will see that the ATF is requesting 'emergency powers' to restrict the sales of firearms (ostensibly only gun dealers on the US/Mexico border) of a caliber larger than .22 - which is interesting because one of the 'hot new' calibers is the .17HMR - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HMR

sounds like the solution is to set up gun-smithing clubs.

[wallew]

This IS real. I've talked with a gunsmithing buddy of mine who owns his own shop. He GOT the ATF letter.

He ALSO got the NSSA letter saying they are going to fight it. Here is the NSSA info..

----------------------

ATF Pushes Emergency Measure Requiring Reporting Of Semi-Automatic Rifle Sales

WASHINGTON (AP) – The federal agency that monitors gun sales wants weapons dealers near the Mexican border to start reporting multiple sales of high-powered rifles, according to a notice published in the Federal Register.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has asked the White House budget office to approve an emergency request requiring border-area gun dealers to report the sales of two or more rifles to the same customer within a five-day period.

The emergency request, published Friday in the Federal Register, is likely to face stiff opposition from gun rights advocates, including the National Rifle Association. ATF wants the Office of Budget Management to approve the request by Jan. 5.

NRA officials did not immediately return a telephone message for comment Monday. Last week the group’s chief lobbyist, Chris Cox, told the Washington Post that the “NRA supports legitimate efforts to stop criminal activity, but we will not stand idle while our Second Amendment is sacrificed for politics.” The Post first reported the proposal.

High-powered rifles have become the weapon of choice for Mexico’s warring drug cartel. More than 30,000 people have been killed in Mexico’s drug war since President Felipe Calderon launched an offensive against the powerful drug gangs shortly after taking office in late 2006.

Officials on both sides of the border have said weapons bought legally in the United States are routinely smuggled into the Mexico. The proposed reporting requirement would apply to sales of two or more semi-automatic guns more powerful than .22-caliber rifles that use a detachable magazine within a five-day period.

ATF, which tracks weapons found in Mexico and has tied tens of thousands of recovered guns to U.S. dealers, has been criticized for not doing enough to curb the flow of guns to Mexico, where firearms sales are highly restricted.

Last month a Justice Department report on the agency’s Operation Gunrunner criticized the program as being narrowly focused on individual gun buyers and not larger smuggling organizations believed responsible for significant numbers of guns being shipped across the border.

Currently there are no reporting requirements for rifles.

If approved by the White House, the new reporting requirement would affect nearly 8,500 border-area gun dealers in Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas and be in place for 180 days.

Email sent to J&G Firearms customers today:

Dear J&G Customer,

This is a special notice to warn you of impending new gun regulation. The ATF has proposed to require gun dealers to provide directly to the ATF the names, addresses, and serial numbers for every purchase of two or more semi auto, mag fed rifles within a five day period!! They are trying to force this in by January 5th, without any approval from Congress, calling it a needed “emergency” regulation. This is backdoor registration of guns and gunowners.

Here is a quote from the notice by the NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation) regarding this burdensome and illegal move:

“The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is moving to require federally licensed firearms retailers to report multiple sales of modern sporting rifles beginning January 5, 2011. Specifically, the ATF requirement calls for firearms retailers to report multiple sales, or other dispositions, of two or more .22 caliber or larger semi-automatic rifles that are capable of accepting a detachable magazine and are purchased by the same individual within five consecutive business days.”

We are encouraging everyone to contact the relevant officials to protest this move. The office that approves regulation changes like this that bypass Congress is the Office of Information and Regulation affairs of the DOJ and they can be reached at 202-395-6466. You can call your Senator and Representative at the US Capitol switchboard at 202-224-3121.

The NSSF offers the following points to make when calling

1. “Multiple sales reporting of long guns will actually make it more difficult for licensed retailers to help law enforcement as traffickers modify their illegal schemes to circumvent the reporting requirement. Traffickers will go further underground, hiring more people to buy their firearms. This will make it much harder for retailers to identify and report suspicious behavior to law enforcement.”
2. “Long guns are rarely used in crime (Bureau of Justice Statistics).”
3. “Imposing multiple sales-reporting requirements for long guns would further add to the already extensive paperwork and record-keeping requirements burdening America’s retailers – where a single mistake could cost them their license and even land them in jail.”
4. “Last year, ATF inspected 2,000 retailers in border states and only two licenses were revoked (0.1%). These revocations were for reasons unknown and could have had nothing to do with illicit trafficking of guns; furthermore, no dealers were charged with any criminal wrongdoing.”
5. “According to ATF, the average age of a firearm recovered in the United States is 11 years old. In Mexico it’s more than 14 years old. This demonstrates that criminals are not using new guns bought from retailers in the states.”
6. “Congress, when it enacted multiple sales reporting for handguns, could have required multiple sales of long guns – it specifically chose not to.”

Read the full notice by the NSSF here:

http://www.nssfblog.com/atf-to-require-multiple-sales-reports-for-long-guns/

Read the full ATF document proposing this illegal move here: (PDF)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/atf.pdf


====================

Department of Justice Billing Code: 4410-FY
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
[OMB Number 1140-NEW]
Agency Information Collection Activities:
Proposed collection; comments requested
ACTION: 60-Day Emergency Notice of Information Collection Under Review:
Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles
__________________________________________________ ________________________
The Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, will submit the following information
collection request to the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) for review and clearance in
accordance with emergency review procedures of the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995. OMB
approval has been requested by January 5, 2011. This notice requests comments from the public
and affected agencies concerning the proposed information collection. If granted, the emergency
approval is only valid for 180 days. Comments should be directed to OMB, Office of
Information and Regulation Affairs, Attention: Department of Justice Desk Officer (202) 395-
6466, Washington, DC 20503.

During the first 60 days of this same review period, a regular review of this information
collection is also being undertaken. All comments and suggestions, or questions regarding
additional information, to include obtaining a copy of the proposed information collection

instrument with instructions, should be directed to Barbara A. Terrell, Barbara.Terrell@atf.gov
Firearms Industry Programs Branch, Fax (202) 648-9640, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms
and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington DC 20226.

Written comments and suggestions from the public and affected agencies concerning the
proposed collection of information. Your comments should address one or more of the
following four points:

- Evaluate whether the proposed collection of information is necessary for the
proper performance of the functions of the agency, including whether the
information will have practical utility;

- Evaluate the accuracy of the agencies estimate of the burden of the proposed
collection of information, including the validity of the methodology and
assumptions used;

- Enhance the quality, utility, and clarity of the information to be collected; and

- Minimize the burden of the collection of information on those who are to respond,
including through the use of appropriate automated, electronic, mechanical, or
other technological collection techniques or other forms of information
technology, e.g., permitting electronic submission of responses.



Summary of Collection:
(1) Type of information collection: New
(2) The title of the form/collection: Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of
Certain Rifles.
(3) The agency form number, if any, and the applicable component of the department
sponsoring the collection: Form Number: ATF F 3310.12. Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
(4) Affected public who will be asked or required to respond, as well as a brief
abstract: Primary: Business or For-Profit Other: None.
Need for Collection:
The purpose of the information is to require Federal Firearms Licensees to report
multiple sales or other dispositions whenever the licensee sells or otherwise
disposes of two or more rifles within any five consecutive business days with the
following characteristics: (a) semi automatic; (b) a caliber greater than .22; and
(c) the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(5) An estimate of the total number of respondents and the amount of time estimated
for an average respondent to respond/reply: It is estimated that 8,479 respondents
will complete a 12 minute form.
(6) An estimate of the total public burden (in hours) associated with the
collection: The estimated total public burden associated with this information
collection is 1,696 hours.
If additional information is required contact: Lynn Murray, Department Clearance Officer,
Policy and Planning Staff, Justice Management Division, United States Department of Justice,
145 N Street NE, Two Constitution Square, Room 2E-502, Washington, DC 20530.
December 14, 2010
Lynn Murray Date
Department Clearance Officer, PRA
United States Department of Justice

[Ponce]

The 22 sounds like a cap gun and it wont exit the body but will start to tumble off stuff inside making you bleed like swiss cheese

very dangerous firearm.

T


You are thinking of a head shot and not a body shot........the bullet goes into your head but without the needed force to exit so that it will tumble around in your skull......but of course this doesn't happen all the time.........sure shot with a .22 is at five feet or less.

[Santa]

I vaguely remember a news story years ago along I-70 in Colorado. A guy was shot something like a dozen times with a .22 and then walked several miles along the Interstate before getting picked up and taken to a hospital.

[Gaillo]

I vaguely remember a news story years ago along I-70 in Colorado. A guy was shot something like a dozen times with a .22 and then walked several miles along the Interstate before getting picked up and taken to a hospital.


I've heard many, many accounts of the same thing with everything from .22LR to .45ACP. I read about a fight between 2 guys where one of them soaked up a full magazine from a Glock 19 and lived to kill the gunman and make it to the hospital. Another account has a guy taking five .45ACP rounds to the back, and also making it to the hospital on his own.

Face it... handguns are an "iffy" proposition at best, a poor man-stopper under the best of conditions. If you are counting on a handgun for self defense, learn the 3 rules of stopping power:

Shot placement,
Shot placement, and
Shot placement.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Stabbed in the dick (act) again!

Don't discount the power of a .22. You might not want it to stop a grizzly charge but it will kill a cow.


I dont mean to argue with you, because you probably can kill a cow with a .22 if you think about it long and hard, but my friend traded some deer meat for some cow meat, and he got to pick the cow and kill it. All told, the cow needed 6 bullets, with the final blow being a 375hh to the head. He also shot a killer whale with an AK47. Another friend went to Cambodia and paid 5 dollars to explode a cow with a hand grenade. Then the villagers came and collected the meat and ate it.


Actually it is pretty easy to kill a cow with a 22 if you know what you are doing. I slaughtered a couple steers this fall myself and a butcher friend of mine who was helping told me how to do it. You aim for the center on an imaginary X on their forehead made between the eyes and horns. First one I did dropped as if hit by lightning on the first shot. The second one needed three shots which I felt bad about. But the third one had the same effect. Next time I will probably use something larger but no need for a high powered rifle. Shot placement is definitely important.

[Awoke]

MOLON LABE

[dead precedent]

Stabbed in the dick (act) again!

Don't discount the power of a .22. You might not want it to stop a grizzly charge but it will kill a cow.


I dont mean to argue with you, because you probably can kill a cow with a .22 if you think about it long and hard, but my friend traded some deer meat for some cow meat, and he got to pick the cow and kill it. All told, the cow needed 6 bullets, with the final blow being a 375hh to the head. He also shot a killer whale with an AK47. Another friend went to Cambodia and paid 5 dollars to explode a cow with a hand grenade. Then the villagers came and collected the meat and ate it.


Then there was this one time... at band camp... ;D


Now that I read it, what I wrote sounds fantastic, but its all true.

And about that killer whale, him and his pod were picking all the halibut off the long line, which was causing them to have to fish twice as much halibut. They steered clear afterwards.


http://www.whale-museum.org/programs/soundwatch/US%20&%20Canada%20Marine%20Mammal%20Laws,%20Regulations% 20&%20Guidelines.pdf

[Awoke]

Stabbed in the dick (act) again!

Don't discount the power of a .22. You might not want it to stop a grizzly charge but it will kill a cow.


I dont mean to argue with you, because you probably can kill a cow with a .22 if you think about it long and hard, but my friend traded some deer meat for some cow meat, and he got to pick the cow and kill it. All told, the cow needed 6 bullets, with the final blow being a 375hh to the head. He also shot a killer whale with an AK47. Another friend went to Cambodia and paid 5 dollars to explode a cow with a hand grenade. Then the villagers came and collected the meat and ate it.


Your friend should learn where the heart and lungs are in an animal.

[Low_five]

I am aware of the laws, and you go ahead and enforce them. I'll even tell you where he is... The north pacific ocean a little south of the bering straight but north of dutch. andddd go.

on a related note, the killer whales pick the long lines clean which causes tons of fish stock to go depleted. Ill trade a few killer whales for 500,000 lbs of halibut any day.

[Low_five]

Stabbed in the dick (act) again!

Don't discount the power of a .22. You might not want it to stop a grizzly charge but it will kill a cow.


I dont mean to argue with you, because you probably can kill a cow with a .22 if you think about it long and hard, but my friend traded some deer meat for some cow meat, and he got to pick the cow and kill it. All told, the cow needed 6 bullets, with the final blow being a 375hh to the head. He also shot a killer whale with an AK47. Another friend went to Cambodia and paid 5 dollars to explode a cow with a hand grenade. Then the villagers came and collected the meat and ate it.


Your friend should learn where the heart and lungs are in an animal.


Thats what I told him. he said it wouldnt stop bellowing.

[dead precedent]

I am aware of the laws, and you go ahead and enforce them. I'll even tell you where he is... The north pacific ocean a little south of the bering straight but north of dutch. andddd go.

on a related note, the killer whales pick the long lines clean which causes tons of fish stock to go depleted. Ill trade a few killer whales for 500,000 lbs of halibut any day.


If you really wanna play cool guy then why dont you narrow it down for me a bit more...thanks,you're a peach.

[Cobalt]

Mexico wouldn't have to worry about guns being walked across the border from the US so easily if Mexico built a fence. :oo-->