Counterfeit Coins- Fake Silver

[Spectrism]

I thought I would revive a topic from long, long ago about fake coins- mostly from China. This is something we all need to be watching for and be equipped with the knowledge so we don't get scammed. In this thread, let's chip in what we have learned and experienced to help each other.

http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/
Inside a Chinese Coin Counterfeiting RingPhotos of Counterfeit Coin Dies, Minting
Machinery, and Fake Coins
By Susan Headley, About.com Guide

The photos in this gallery were taken inside a Chinese coin counterfeiting operation. This counterfeiting ring is suspected of putting thousands of fake coins onto the world and U.S. coin markets every month. These striking photos first emerged on certain Web-based coin discussion boards in Europe and the Far East. They came to my attention through a numismatic watchdog/satire blog called Biddle's Bank. These are the same coins which are being put into counterfeit PCGS and NGC coin holders, although they are most frequently sold raw (non-slabbed.)

The sheer size, scope, and professionalism of this counterfeiting ring will astonish you. Although the working conditions often appear dirty and the minting equipment is old, this is obviously a well-funded enterprise that is run like a legal business in China. There is no law in China against making these "replicas" as long as they are sold as such.

Please share your thoughts about this Chinese counterfeiting ring.


http://0.tqn.com/d/coins/1/0/E/A/-/-/fake_morgans_made_in_china.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/coins/1/0/r/9/-/-/fake_chinese_coin_dies.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/coins/1/0/D/A/-/-/fake_morgan_dollars_from_china_edges.jpg

[1970 silver art]

Thanks for starting this thread. The following are not .999 pure silver bars. If you are buying .999 silver bars, then stay away from these bars:

http://gold-silver.us/forum/silver/buyer-beware!!!!!!!!!-pay-close-attention-to-what-you-are-buying/


Silver Chinese Pandas are faked a lot too and most of them are found on ebay. The Chinese Panda fakes are usually silver plated copper from what I heard.

[Spectrism]

Thanks for starting this thread. The following are not .999 pure silver bars. If you are buying .999 silver bars, then stay away from these bars:

http://gold-silver.us/forum/silver/buyer-beware!!!!!!!!!-pay-close-attention-to-what-you-are-buying/


Silver Chinese Pandas are faked a lot too and most of them are found on ebay. The Chinese Panda fakes are usually silver plated copper from what I heard.


I agree 1970 Silver Art- I got cold feet about buying anything from China- even the Pandas. Ever notice how the eBay stuff that never sells is from China? Beware of front operations that get set up in the US.

[Uncle Salty]

I wish Fisch would make some silver testers.

[midnight rambler]

The Peace and Morgan dollar fakes are all over feebay, and being sold as fakes in many cases. They're affordable enough I was thinking of buying one of each so I would know what to look for in the future.

[midnight rambler]

By the looks of those dies in the photo it appears they're producing many more fake coins than just Peace and Morgan dollars, perhaps even generic rounds.

[Spectrism]

By the looks of those dies in the photo it appears they're producing many more fake coins than just Peace and Morgan dollars, perhaps even generic rounds.


Because I would not want to destroy a larger stamped bar and I don't have a real good way of testing the metal content, this is the kind of thing that bothers me. It could cause the destruction of this market as a commoner's store of wealth. It would drive all sales through controlled testing points and they could outlaw all other trades "for your safety"- of course.

[Son-of-Liberty]

I was burned at an auction on these fake silver rounds. It appears that they even treated them with something to give them a tarnished appearance. I was actually a little suspicious before I even bid but greed got the best of me. Once I had them home put them on a scale and they were 25g or something like that instead of 31.1g. I am pretty sure they are cupro-nickle and not plated. The auction was very careful to not claim they were silver rounds and had them mixed in with a bunch of other stuff.

If you are worried about a fake compare size of the coin or bar against one you know is real and then check the weight. I don't think I will be taken again on these same fakes they are pretty easy to spot now that I know what to look for.

[Spectrism]

I was burned at an auction on these fake silver rounds. It appears that they even treated them with something to give them a tarnished appearance. I was actually a little suspicious before I even bid but greed got the best of me. Once I had them home put them on a scale and they were 25g or something like that instead of 31.1g. I am pretty sure they are cupro-nickle and not plated. The auction was very careful to not claim they were silver rounds and had them mixed in with a bunch of other stuff.

If you are worried about a fake compare size of the coin or bar against one you know is real and then check the weight. I don't think I will be taken again on these same fakes they are pretty easy to spot now that I know what to look for.


Thanks for that. I almost bought some of varying dates but got concerned because they were sealed in thick plastic cases making it impossible to feel, ring, chemtest or weigh them. Since the coins had many dings "appearing" to be worn and circulated, the heavy protective plastic cases seemed out of place.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Those are probably the same ones Spec. These were sleeved but not heavy cases and they had been made to look worn. The ones I bought were fake silver rounds but I have seen other fakes at that auction made to look like old US silver dollars. I won't be going to that auction again. I had another problem with them a few weeks before where they double charged me the buyers fee.

I can't stand dishonest people.

[Spectrism]

Now that I think about it, the edges- all I could see, looked very clean..... out of character for the dings on the faces. That would be another clue.... perfect surfaces on one part of coin but marred on the rest.

I may go back and take some pics and talk with the dealer.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Have to wait for my girlfriend to come home with the camera but I will try and take some pics to post later.

[Spectrism]

http://coins.about.com/b/2009/11/11/u-s-mint-warns-about-chinese-made-counterfeit-coins.htm

U.S. Mint Warns About Chinese-Made Counterfeit Coins
Wednesday November 11, 2009

The U.S. Mint has issued a Consumer Advisory warning citizens about the counterfeit U.S. coins that have been flooding into the United States from China. Although counterfeit coins are as old a phenomena as coins themselves, dating back to antiquity, the Chinese-made counterfeits represent an unusually dangerous threat because of the high technology being employed to produce many of them.

The U.S. Mint Advisory characterizes the coins as "imitations" and includes a photograph of a Proof Morgan Dollar. The Advisory states that the imitation coins bear dates prior to 1950. You can read the entire counterfeit coin advisory on the U.S. Mint's Web site.

I have been warning coin collectors about these Chinese-made counterfeit coins since early 2008, when I obtained photographs and the operational details of a working coin counterfeiting ring based in China. The fake coins are primarily entering the hobby marketplace through online auction venues such as eBay.


http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/?action=hotitems


The United States Mint frequently receives inquiries from consumers who have confused coin-related products from private companies with genuine United States coinage. This page includes information about these products, plus other coin-related issues that may be of interest to our customers and to the general public. As more public inquires are received and new issues arise, additional information will be added, so remember to check this page for updates.

•Imitation Pre-1950 Coinage
•President-Elect Barack Obama "Commemorative Coins"
•2004 United States Mint Lewis and Clark Coin and Pouch Sets Containing Pouches From the Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band of Ohio
•FINAL REGULATION ISSUED PROHIBITING THE EXPORTATION, MELTING, OR TREATMENT OF UNITED STATES ONE-CENT AND 5-CENT COINS
•Archived Items

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Imitation Pre-1950 Coinage

The United States Mint is aware of recent reports that some companies in China are producing unmarked imitations of pre-1950 United States coins and are selling them on-line. This practice not only exploits unwary consumers and collectors, but also may violate Federal law. Both consumers and coin collectors should be aware of this practice and should exercise vigilance and good judgment when purchasing pre-1950 coins.

The Hobby Protection Act (15 U.S.C. §§ 2101–2106) outlaws manufacturing or importing imitation numismatic items unless they are marked in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). Specifically, any such imitation numismatic item intended to be introduced or distributed in commerce must be plainly and permanently marked "copy." To read the FTC's 1998 Consumer Alert on Investing in Rare Coins, visit the Better Business Bureau's webpage, http://www.bbb.org/us/article/4740.

In addition, these imitation coins may violate Federal counterfeiting laws (18 U.S.C. §§ 485, 489 & 490). The United States Mint has no Federal criminal enforcement authority. Rather, it refers such matters to the United States Secret Service, which is lawfully authorized to detect and arrest any person who violates any Federal law relating to United States coinage (18 U.S.C. § 3056(b)(2)). For more information on counterfeit coins, visit the United States Secret Service's webpage, http://www.treas.gov/usss/money_coins.shtml.


http://www.coincollectingnews.org/category/counterfeit-coins

http://numismaticnews.net/article/Crude_5_in_date_gives_away_fake/

[Spectrism]

Here is a good site to help spot the counterfeits...

http://www.silver-coins.org/counterfeit_dollars.html


These bastards are making fakes that look pretty good. I have not seen anything about weighing them or metals composition.

[Twisted Titan]

Tag.......................

[Celtic Rogue]

Here is a good site to help spot the counterfeits...

http://www.silver-coins.org/counterfeit_dollars.html


These bastards are making fakes that look pretty good. I have not seen anything about weighing them or metals composition.

Thanks for the link. Nice reference site with photos, proper weights and measurements. Once you train your eye. You can spot them pretty quickly. I guess it all boils down to... Caveat Emptor! But it does suck and I agree with another poster (sorry cant remember the name) that this is an excellent opportunity to put tight controls on all transactions with approved government purity tests and all. Its for our safety! 8-)

[Twisted Titan]

Thanks for the link. Nice reference site with photos, proper weights and measurements. Once you train your eye. You can spot them pretty quickly. I guess it all boils down to... Caveat Emptor! But it does suck and I agree with another poster (sorry cant remember the name) that this is an excellent opportunity to put tight controls on all transactions with approved government purity tests and all. Its for our safety! 8-)

I would get a dummy bag just for security reasons

[gunDriller]

i could see one reason for counterfeit coins - in case the government decides to seize your stash.

[TomD]

i could see one reason for counterfeit coins - in case the government decides to seize your stash.

Or could act as decoys in case of the other type of criminal, the burglars come calling.

[Peter88]

How are people checking for fakes? I just ordered an acid test kit. Anyone seeing the fakes?

[madfranks]

How are people checking for fakes? I just ordered an acid test kit. Anyone seeing the fakes?

I am seeing fakes here in the Colorado area. One of the more savvy dealers around here uses some sort of spectroscopy gun to test each piece as it comes in. He has a whole box full of fakes that people have tried to sell him, lots of 1-ounce fake silver bars and coins.

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

How are people checking for fakes? I just ordered an acid test kit. Anyone seeing the fakes?

I test using the specific gravity test and found one fake Sunshine round. The dealer reimbursed me with a Engelhard so it worked out for me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYdSEAm-7uI

[Half Sense]

It might be wiser to stick with culls. I don't think anybody is faking these:

8957

[madfranks]

It might be wiser to stick with culls. I don't think anybody is faking these:

8957

Yeah but where's the fun in collecting those? The amount of counterfeit silver out there is probably stunning to anyone who starts investigating it. You must be very diligent when buying silver, to make sure you're not buying plated crap.

https://s21.postimg.org/7hkyn0847/fake_silver.jpg