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steyr_m
1st January 2011, 09:13 AM
There was a thread earlier for Ham Radio, Here's something I came across that falls in line with that subject.



Survival Radio: What Will Work

Survival Cache

In any type of disaster (Hurricane, Earthquake, Economic Collapse, Nuclear War, EMP Blast/Solar Event, etc) your typical means of communications (Mobile Phones, Land Lines, Internet) will most likely be severed or severely impaired. Now is the time to start your Survival Communications Plan.

I know from reading about past disasters and being in the middle of 9/11 myself that when disaster strikes, using your mobile phone (which we are all so heavily dependent on) can be a frustrating experience to say the least. If you have ever tried to dial out and received the message “All Circuits Are Busy” then you know what I am talking about.

The question that a lot of us have not answered is how are we going to communicate with our loved ones and friends when all traditional communications will be at best unreliable or at worst nonexistent. This is especially important in an Urban Survival situation. The Emergency Communication question is one that seems to get very little attention and is wide open to speculation.

Options

A small group trying to survive in hard times (which, depending from your viewpoint seems to be inevitable), will need to have a plan to communicate with each other as well as some form of back up plan. Aside from smoke signals, there are modern options to consider for Survivalists and Preppers. The three most readily available are GMRS or FRS radios, CB radios, and Ham radio.

GMRS/FRS: These survival radios are good for short distances with little terrain interference. Used as pagers/communicators inside a building or a camp, GMRS/FRS radios offer low-cost & convenience. Small and easy to carry, GMRS/FRS radio family biggest drawback is their range and their battery life. Some of the manufacturers report that these survival radios will work up to 35 miles, but that is 35 miles over a flat surface with no interference. Once you start putting trees, hills, houses, etc in the way the range drops dramatically. While fine as a short-range group communications tool, they lack the ability of medium or long-range communications.

CB radios: Around for several years as an offshoot of Ham Radio, CB does not require a license and unlike amateur radio, it may be used for business as well as personal communications. Enjoying a boom in the mid-seventies and are readily available today, CB radios are still the main short-range communications choice for truckers and some of my red neck friends. You can find CB’s fairly cheaply at yard sales, Craigslist, ebay and flea markets. Mandated by regulation as a low power device, the range on these radios is much greater when combined with a signal amplifier, or “Linear” Amp. It is not advocated using a linear amp, however for the most part, enforcement of the restrictions are few and often only when an illegal stations signal interferes with other communication methods. Long distance communication is possible when atmospheric conditions permit. CB radios come in many different forms, ranging from legal 40 channel/4 watt models, to a grey-area type of “export radio”, that skirts legality by being built for ham radio use, but are easily modified for the CB band. Operating within the 10–12 Meter HF Band, CB radios need a longer antenna than UHF/VHF GMRS/FRS radios.

Ham or Amateur Radio: Offers the farthest operating range, and broadest array of communication modes, from voice communication, to text, photo, video, and digital telemetry. Requiring a license to operate, ham radio is well organized and self-regulated.

Ham radio is fairly cheap to get started in as there are many used radio bargains around. New ham radios cost run from hundreds to several thousands of dollars, but with frugal shopping one can set up a rather nice base station and talk all around the world.

Some of the best ham antennas are homemade, simple to conceal, wire antennas strung between trees. This type setup is very portable if need be, and can be set up almost anyplace. Mobile ham radio setups that are available that can talk all over the world.

Things to Consider

Text Messaging: It has been reported that during Hurricane Katrina, the only reliable way to communicate was by Text Messaging. This is a good piece of information to know if you are caught off guard in the next crisis. While everyone else is desperately trying to call, you might be able to get your messages through via text. I would recommend to plan as if Text Messaging will not work and if the crisis spills into multiple weeks you can bet that the service will no longer work at some point but this is still good information to know.

EMP Blast/Solar Event Considerations (Electromagnetic Pulse): Because we are talking about electronics and two of the scenarios which many people plan for is an EMP type blast or the more likely scenario, a Solar Storm Event like the one that took place in 1859 (Carrington Event). Because these threats are very real, you should try to store your critical electronics in a protective case. One of the ways you can protect yourself from this scenario is by storing your survival radios and critical electronics in a Faraday cage. While we are not going to go into “How to Build a Faraday Cage” in this article, I can assure you that there are a lot of examples out there on the web and YouTube.

When selecting GMRS/FRS radios buy only models that will run on 12-volt DC power or rechargeable nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery packs that can be recharged from your retreat’s 12-VDC power system without having to use an inverter. Also look for the models that can also run on AA or AAA batteries as a back up. As a secondary purchasing goal, buy spare radios of each type if you can afford them. Keep your spares in sealed metal boxes (that are grounded) to protect them from EMP. If you live in a far inland region, I recommend buying two or more 12-VDC marine band radios. These frequencies will probably not be monitored in your region, leaving you an essentially private band to use. (But never assume that any two-way radio communications are secure!)

Choosing a way to communicate outside normal everyday methods can be a daunting task. So much of it not only depends on your needs but how you can apply your limited resources. The return on your investment is inconsequential as long as your ability to get your message heard at a critical time by the people you are trying to reach.

This article was a collaboration between David M. Hill Sr. of The American Preparedness Radio Network and The SurvivalCache Team. You can find out more about The American Preparedness Radio Network at www.taprn.com.

Reprinted with permission from Survival Cache.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep/survival-radio.html

Dogman
1st January 2011, 09:26 AM
All good and valid points!

ATTENTION JohnQ !

With the way things are going, Would it be much trouble to make a communication sub forum? so we can list and also talk about this subject?

I have been a ham operator on and off since I was 13 years old and I am very much aware of the value of communications, But like the power to your house , phones, water , gas , it is out of sight and out of mind ,,, until it is gone!

There is a section in the Gsus library , but that is a work in progress, and one way. If we had a sub-forum here, at least all threads dealing with this subject will all be in one place!

I personally feel this is very important!

palani
1st January 2011, 09:29 AM
You might want to consider some of the aircraft walkie talkies capable of transmitting on 121.5 mhz. Any commercial planes overhead are required to monitor this frequency. Could be of help to someone backpacking and in need of assistance. This rule came about from the crash of a Cessna 195 in the Rockies in the early '50s. Parents died and they found the notes of a girl who wrote she could hear aircraft overhead but had no way to contact them.

Another one is the maritime channels for emergency contact with the Coast Guard.

On ham radio packet radio lets you communicate in a manner similar to the way TTY machines operated during WWII (terminal to terminal).

Dogman
1st January 2011, 09:35 AM
You might want to consider some of the aircraft walkie talkies capable of transmitting on 121.5 mhz. Any commercial planes overhead are required to monitor this frequency. Could be of help to someone backpacking and in need of assistance. This rule came about from the crash of a Cessna 195 in the Rockies in the early '50s. Parents died and they found the notes of a girl who wrote she could hear aircraft overhead but had no way to contact them.

Another one is the maritime channels for emergency contact with the Coast Guard.

On ham radio packet radio lets you communicate in a manner similar to the way TTY machines operated during WWII (terminal to terminal).


I can do RITTY. Teletype at one time other than voice , it was the fastest way to move news and info.

Some of the old machines and transmitters still operate, but the digital form is alive and well. Along with other modes. Packet is just one mode out of many, available to ham operators.

Edit: All is needed it a TNC (terminal node controller) and the software , plus transceiver.

steyr_m
1st January 2011, 09:43 AM
You might want to consider some of the aircraft walkie talkies capable of transmitting on 121.5 mhz. Any commercial planes overhead are required to monitor this frequency. Could be of help to someone backpacking and in need of assistance. This rule came about from the crash of a Cessna 195 in the Rockies in the early '50s. Parents died and they found the notes of a girl who wrote she could hear aircraft overhead but had no way to contact them.

Another one is the maritime channels for emergency contact with the Coast Guard.

On ham radio packet radio lets you communicate in a manner similar to the way TTY machines operated during WWII (terminal to terminal).


121.5 is an aircraft emergeny freq. There will also be "warbling" on the carrier. If you TX in this freq. there are satellites that will pick it up a Search and Rescue team looking for you thinking there is an aircraft emergency (crash).

I've worked in a Search and Rescue squadron, believe me; you do not want to TX on it unless you have to.

steyr_m
1st January 2011, 09:47 AM
All good and valid points!

ATTENTION JohnQ !

With the way things are going, Would it be much trouble to make a communication sub forum? so we can list and also talk about this subject?



I agree. I've also "thrown it out there" for a computer sub-forum for dealing with security/encryption only; but went no-where. I think encryption will be absolutely necessary to thwart NWO.

palani
1st January 2011, 09:50 AM
I've worked in a Search and Rescue squadron, believe me; you do not want to TX on it unless you have to.
I only proposed it as a mode of receiving help ASAP. If fines or imprisonment resulted from transmitting on this frequency but use resulted in rescue the price might be considered to offset the cost.

Dogman
1st January 2011, 09:52 AM
All good and valid points!

ATTENTION JohnQ !

With the way things are going, Would it be much trouble to make a communication sub forum? so we can list and also talk about this subject?



I agree. I've also "thrown it out there" for a computer sub-forum for dealing with security/encryption only; but went no-where. I think encryption will be absolutely necessary to thwart NWO.


Yea but that is assuming there will be a web, also encryption would be like a magnet to people you are trying to avoid. There are other ways, spread spectrum, Psk, etc, etc,

Encryption is cool, but I would not comm with it , the chances of a knock on the door from the men in black , would be great, there are other ways , that would be safer!

IMHO

We do need a comm/computer sub-forum!

Dogman
1st January 2011, 09:55 AM
I've worked in a Search and Rescue squadron, believe me; you do not want to TX on it unless you have to.
I only proposed it as a mode of receiving help ASAP. If fines or imprisonment resulted from transmitting on this frequency but use resulted in rescue the price might be considered to offset the cost.


Any body can transmit any where on any frequency , in a life , limb , or property danger!

And it would be totally legal! No license required!

Fact Jack!

palani
1st January 2011, 09:56 AM
I agree. I've also "thrown it out there" for a computer sub-forum for dealing with security/encryption only; but went no-where. I think encryption will be absolutely necessary to thwart NWO.


Spread spectrum. You chop up the primary signal (possibly 3 khz bandwidth) with a signal that results in a bandwidth of several megahertz.

This method was used during WWII. A noisy vacuum tube was obtained. Two records were cut of the random noise coming from the vacuum tube. One record was shipped to England while the other was used in the U.S. When Roosevelt needed to talk to Churchill the turntables were synched in on both sides of the atlantic and the audio was chopped by the noisy waveform. The signal was routed through phone lines across the atlantic and demodulated with the same waveform on the other side of the ocean. Anyone tapping the phone line would have heard nothing but noise. Could not even detect that a transmission was occurring and no possibility of intercept.

palani
1st January 2011, 09:58 AM
Fact Jack!
Has its limits. For example, a general aviation plane in a stall. Don't want to drop the plane to fly the mike.

steyr_m
1st January 2011, 09:59 AM
I only proposed it as a mode of receiving help ASAP. If fines or imprisonment resulted from transmitting on this frequency but use resulted in rescue the price might be considered to offset the cost.


You won't get fined if there was an actual emergency. Having that kind of equipment laying around and people not knowing what it is, opens the door for mis-use, even if unintentional.

When SHTF, I wouldn't want something like that. One, I may not want to be found by the authorities. Two, SAR capabilities may not be available.

steyr_m
1st January 2011, 10:03 AM
I agree. I've also "thrown it out there" for a computer sub-forum for dealing with security/encryption only; but went no-where. I think encryption will be absolutely necessary to thwart NWO.


Spread spectrum. You chop up the primary signal (possibly 3 khz bandwidth) with a signal that results in a bandwidth of several megahertz.

This method was used during WWII. A noisy vacuum tube was obtained. Two records were cut of the random noise coming from the vacuum tube. One record was shipped to England while the other was used in the U.S. When Roosevelt needed to talk to Churchill the turntables were synched in on both sides of the atlantic and the audio was chopped by the noisy waveform. The signal was routed through phone lines across the atlantic and demodulated with the same waveform on the other side of the ocean. Anyone tapping the phone line would have heard nothing but noise. Could not even detect that a transmission was occurring and no possibility of intercept.


That's actually pretty cool. I've never heard of that before.

You have anything right now that steyr_m and palani can talk after SHTF that uses the same technology?

Dogman
1st January 2011, 10:09 AM
Fact Jack!
Has its limits. For example, a general aviation plane in a stall. Don't want to drop the plane to fly the mike.


Duh! you are using extremes! Fighting for control is one thing, all attention should be devoted.
And times, not a chance to do anything, but live or die.

But if alive and in a emergency situation , my post above still stands! ;D

palani
1st January 2011, 10:10 AM
Spread spectrum is available with wireless telephones (the kind that make use of a land line) intended to prevent people from monitoring your telephone conversations.

It is simple enough to do but requires both the transmitting and receiving stations be in synch and make use of the identical waveform. It is so critical that if one station is in motion the phase shift is sufficient to stop comms. The good part of it is that the power is spread over several megahertz and actually is below the noise level at any given frequency. It is extremely hard to detect and impossible to detect without knowledge of the synch waveform.

Dogman
1st January 2011, 10:18 AM
Spread spectrum is available with wireless telephones (the kind that make use of a land line) intended to prevent people from monitoring your telephone conversations.

It is simple enough to do but requires both the transmitting and receiving stations be in synch and make use of the identical waveform. It is so critical that if one station is in motion the phase shift is sufficient to stop comms. The good part of it is that the power is spread over several megahertz and actually is below the noise level at any given frequency. It is extremely hard to detect and impossible to detect without knowledge of the synch waveform.


s/s is very good, but psk is also good, long range, low power, dam near imposable to detect , unless using a spectrum analyzer with the software to decode. The bandwidth is so dam narrow
normal radios if you do not know where to tune, and then unless useing software, you will never find it.

palani
1st January 2011, 10:30 AM
With psk a carrier is still present. Carriers are easily detected.

steyr_m
1st January 2011, 10:32 AM
s/s is very good, but psk is also good, long range, low power, dam near imposable to detect , unless using a spectrum analyzer with the software to decode. The bandwidth is so dam narrow
normal radios if you do not know where to tune, and then unless useing software, you will never find it.


Is what you're talking about have to do with PSK31? I've heard of it, but haven't experimented with it yet. Are you a Ham? If so, which freq's are you capable of right now?

Dogman
1st January 2011, 10:32 AM
With psk a carrier is still present. Carriers are easily detected.


Yes but , with low power, effective com can still be had, even when the signal is buried in the noise floor! Hi power - yes you stand out. Low power- you are in or ever below the noise floor! ;D

Dogman
1st January 2011, 10:37 AM
s/s is very good, but psk is also good, long range, low power, dam near imposable to detect , unless using a spectrum analyzer with the software to decode. The bandwidth is so dam narrow
normal radios if you do not know where to tune, and then unless useing software, you will never find it.


Is what you're talking about have to do with PSK31? I've heard of it, but haven't experimented with it yet. Are you a Ham? If so, which freq's are you capable of right now?



Yes and yes!

All ham bands and freq's +++ Legal. Mars op.
I do not care.

Have nothing to hide..

Look up KI5NM

steyr_m
1st January 2011, 10:42 AM
s/s is very good, but psk is also good, long range, low power, dam near imposable to detect , unless using a spectrum analyzer with the software to decode. The bandwidth is so dam narrow
normal radios if you do not know where to tune, and then unless useing software, you will never find it.


Is what you're talking about have to do with PSK31? I've heard of it, but haven't experimented with it yet. Are you a Ham? If so, which freq's are you capable of right now?



Yes and yes!

All ham bands and freq's +++ Legal. Mars op.
I do not care.

Have nothing to hide..

Look up KI5NM



Sent pm....

palani
1st January 2011, 11:59 AM
But if alive and in a emergency situation , my post above still stands!

Your opinion of what Law is matters very little. You can (and will) be charged with anything at any time. You can be convicted by arguing so best be agreeable at all times.

steyr_m
1st January 2011, 12:19 PM
But if alive and in a emergency situation , my post above still stands!

Your opinion of what Law is matters very little. You can (and will) be charged with anything at any time. You can be convicted by arguing so best be agreeable at all times.


No, you can TX on 121.5/243/406 if in an actual emergency and not be charged. If you're being an idiot and goofing around, there's a chance you might be.

Dogman
1st January 2011, 01:24 PM
But if alive and in a emergency situation , my post above still stands!

Your opinion of what Law is matters very little. You can (and will) be charged with anything at any time. You can be convicted by arguing so best be agreeable at all times.


I just love it when some one try's to blow smoke on a subject they have not a true clue about!
Better luck next time! ;D

:ROFL:

palani
1st January 2011, 02:05 PM
I just love it when some one try's to blow smoke on a subject they have not a true clue about!

And I love it when the clueless eventually get a clue. You haven't attempted to buck the system much, have you?

Dogman
1st January 2011, 02:08 PM
I just love it when some one try's to blow smoke on a subject they have not a true clue about!

And I love it when the clueless eventually get a clue. You haven't attempted to buck the system much, have you?


No I have not, have seen what can happen, to the ones that try and buck it and get caught! As long as the system is in place and enforced I will play by their rules. But if the system crumbles, then the sky is the limit.

palani
1st January 2011, 02:15 PM
But if the system crumbles, then the sky is the limit.
Your presumption is what makes the system work. Unfortunately it is an incorrect presumption.

Dogman
1st January 2011, 02:21 PM
But if the system crumbles, then the sky is the limit.
Your presumption is what makes the system work. Unfortunately it is an incorrect presumption.


:lol

Cool, you go your way and push the envelope, and may you be lucky and
not get caught. Have fun dodging the law.

I am done with you on this subject, we can trade back and forth and
never convince the other, there are legal ways and illegal ways and I
support the legal way, until as I have said , the system crumbles.

palani
1st January 2011, 02:24 PM
Cool, you go your way and push the envelope, and may you be lucky and
not get caught. Have fun dodging the law.
Another presumption of your is that I am doing anything to "dodge the law" or am "pushing the envelope". Do you have any evidence that I have done either or have advocated doing either?

You are just full of presumptions aren't you?

I am merely stating that you can be sitting comfortably in your living room peacefully engaged in reading a book and can still be charged with a crime. Do you doubt it? Isn't your last post in the nature of a "charge"?

steyr_m
1st January 2011, 04:24 PM
Hey,

Book
1st January 2011, 05:16 PM
But if alive and in a emergency situation , my post above still stands!

Your opinion of what Law is matters very little.



Another thread murdered by the resident pseudo-lawyer...lol.

Back on topic...Rather then a new section why not a dedicated COMMUNICATIONS sub-section in Preps?

|--0--|

Dogman
1st January 2011, 05:24 PM
But if alive and in a emergency situation , my post above still stands!

Your opinion of what Law is matters very little.



Another thread murdered by the resident pseudo-lawyer...lol.

Back on topic...Rather then a new section why not a dedicated COMMUNICATIONS sub-section in Preps?

|--0--|






Yes it is hell when someone hijacks or at least tries to. A sub-forum would be great , just one place to post all relevant threads, and any good info can go to the library or links can stay in the sub-forum, so things do not get lost, and then having to wade though the past threads to find what one wants.

If things go to hell , communications after basic needs, will become very important!

IMHO

steyr_m
2nd January 2011, 11:05 AM
Yes it is hell when someone hijacks or at least tries to. A sub-forum would be great , just one place to post all relevant threads, and any good info can go to the library or links can stay in the sub-forum, so things do not get lost, and then having to wade though the past threads to find what one wants.

If things go to hell , communications after basic needs, will become very important!

IMHO


I agree there should be a sub-forum.

Upon reflection, I wonder if this was a member who said you can bounce radio waves off of a meteor tail. Hmmmmm

Dogman
2nd January 2011, 11:09 AM
Yes it is hell when someone hijacks or at least tries to. A sub-forum would be great , just one place to post all relevant threads, and any good info can go to the library or links can stay in the sub-forum, so things do not get lost, and then having to wade though the past threads to find what one wants.

If things go to hell , communications after basic needs, will become very important!

IMHO


I agree there should be a sub-forum.

Upon reflection, I wonder if this was a member who said you can bounce radio waves off of a meteor tail. Hmmmmm


It is very real! sort of like moon bounce! No useful comm or info relayed , but in situations like that , it is the contact that counts! ;D

steyr_m
2nd January 2011, 12:38 PM
It is very real! sort of like moon bounce! No useful comm or info relayed , but in situations like that , it is the contact that counts! ;D


Really? I've never heard of that one. I'd like to read more about it.

Dogman
2nd January 2011, 12:42 PM
It is very real! sort of like moon bounce! No useful comm or info relayed , but in situations like that , it is the contact that counts! ;D


Really? I've never heard of that one. I'd like to read more about it.


Whippersnapper!! :lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EME_%28communications%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EME_%28communications%29)


And there is more! ;D

steyr_m
3rd January 2011, 10:18 AM
Whippersnapper!! :lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EME_%28communications%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EME_%28communications%29)

And there is more! ;D


I find that interesting, but I put that in the same pile as EME communications. I'm more interested in secure communication in post-SHTF with other like-minded people for....

1. possibly sharing resources.

2. reliable gathering of info by someone I more or less trust. I wouldn't trust anything on the MSM, with CGI as advanced as it is, anything is possible to fool the sheeple. Cell phone towers can be shut off, and they're working on an internet kill-switch.

I'd much rather work on 6M/HF and/or working Amateur Satellites with V/UHF.