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View Full Version : Beware the traveling hotel events to buy your coins



madfranks
4th January 2011, 05:37 PM
Link Here (http://www.reformer.com/ci_17006313)

By JERRY JORDAN, The Examiner

Tuesday January 4, 2011

BEAUMONT, Texas -- With full-page ads in newspapers across the country, coupled with live promotions on local radio stations promising to pay "top dollar" for unwanted gold and silver, an Illinois-based company has returned to Beaumont but is paying only a small fraction of the actual value of precious metals and other items, a month-long investigation by The Examiner has found.

The newspaper began looking into Treasure Hunters Roadshow (THR), also known as Ohio Valley Gold and Silver Refinery, on Dec. 9, 2009, after it set up shop in a hotel in town. Using three newspaper employees and with help from Universal Coin & Bullion's Mike Fuljenz, one of the leading numismatists in the country, the newspaper took thousands of dollars worth of collectible gold and silver coins to four THR events in two states.

The findings revealed that the money offered was nearly a third of the actual value of the items being presented for sale. In one situation, where $1,550 in coins was offered for sale on the same day at two separate THR events 40 miles apart, the second buyer from THR offered less than half of what the first buyer did, and the first offer was still 60 percent lower than the coins' actual market value.

During THR's first visit to town, the newspaper brought in 2.35 ounces of gold bullion in the form of Double Eagle gold coins. At the time, the spot price of gold was about $1,138 per ounce. The floor manager offered 8 percent below spot gold prices or $2,466.71. The newspaper also brought in a 14k gold 22-inch rope chain that weighed 22 grams, valued at $418 and a 1923 Gorham 12-inch round sterling silver platter that weighed 505 grams, worth $283.

A THR buyer offered $42.30 for the gold chain and $71.71 for the sterling silver platter.

Later that same day, another employee from The Examiner visited the THR event and asked if the company was interested in buying six gold and silver collectable coins, valued at $4,921. Included in the cache of coins were a 1937 Buffalo Nickel NGC-graded MS66 condition ($50); an NGC-graded MS69 Silver Eagle coin, ($27); a 1902-O PCGS-graded MS64 silver dollar ($50); a 1899-O PCGS-graded MS64 Silver dollar coin ($50); a 1928 Indian Head $2.5 gold coin in PCGS-graded MS64 condition ($1,300); and a 1903 MS64 $20 gold Liberty coin in PCGS-graded MS64 condition ($3,450).

After about 30 minutes, The Examiner's employee was offered $1,400 for all six coins -- 72 percent less than their actual value.

"They aren't even offering the scrap value for some of these coins," Fuljenz, whose company does more than $56 million a year in gold and silver transactions, said. "They were way below what the melt value was."

Later that week, Fuljenz brought in dozens of coins including proof sets from 1974 through 1990, a 1984 Olympics Prestige six-coin silver set and an 1887 Prestige 6-coin silver set -- all of which THR refused to buy.

However, they did buy a 1925 silver dollar valued at $16 for $9; two sets of two-coin silver proof U.S. Constitution coins valued at $560 for $490; a 1983 $10 gold Canadian Maple Leaf coin valued at $280 for $275 and a 1908-D $5 Indian Head gold coin in PCGS-graded MS63 condition valued at $1,800 for $450.

"They have to be fairly close on the bullion prices because that is easy to check out, but when they look up these collector coins, which are worth a lot more than their actual gold value, they are offering people pennies on the dollar," said Fuljenz. "That package of coins was valued at about $2,656 and they wrote me a check for $1,224."

Fuljenz, who taught courses for 18 years on how to grade coins, said, "I have not seen competence in their appraisals of the coins that I brought in. If you are going to have your coins appraised, go to someone who knows what they are doing. These people are not specialists or experts in this field.

Fuljenz said prospective precious metal sellers should ask for a list of the company's awards and memberships.

"Does it make you feel better when you walk into a doctor's office or a lawyer's office and you see that they are board certified?" he said, adding people should get a second opinion prior to selling.

The Examiner conducted similar investigations in Marshall, Texas, Shreveport, La., and again, in Beaumont, each time with similar results. At a local pawn shop, it was offered three times what THR was giving as its best deal.

"I hold back about 20 percent because I have to make a profit," said Carl Heartfield, owner of Heartfield's Fine Jewelry in Beaumont. "I have been here for 30 years and I would tell people that they need to sell stuff locally. You have to shop it. You can't just go run to a hotel. We are here to make money, but we are not here to take advantage of people."

Matthew Enright, THR's vice president of media relations, said it was great that the newspaper was able to get three different prices from three different events using the same coins at each event.

"Everything varies upon markets so it depends on the day of the week," Enright said. "It depends on who you are talking to and who has more knowledge and who doesn't. So, things are going to be different. Each person is going to be different so that is great news. That just goes to show you that we don't buy the same way every single time we go to a town."

Even Enright said that people should shop around, but he believed his organization had the resources and the ability to "pay more than anybody else in the country."

Coin World Magazine editor Beth Deisher said she encourages people to use every possible resource to find out how much their items are worth.

"There is plenty of information for consumers to find out what the daily spot price of gold and silver is that can be found on the Internet at 20-minute intervals," Deisher said. "Typically people like this will ask, ‘Well, what do you want for it?' And if you don't have a clue, then you are probably going to get taken."

Sparky
4th January 2011, 10:44 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Low ball offers are a part of business. Being deceptive is different. You have the right to offer $500 for $1000 melt value, but you don't have the right to tell a naive seller that it's only worth $575 melt.

cedarchopper
5th January 2011, 08:11 AM
I agree with Sparky...I'm seeing a lot of gray area in this story. It sounds like they took a bunch of "numismatic" items and compared the offers with what some coin book says they are "worth". Then they took in a bunch of "collectible" slugs (they say silver sets but I doubt there was any silver in them...I could be wrong, but I don't recall silver sets from that era) from 1974 to 1990 and expected offers...and got none.

By just a cursory look at the offers, they were paying for metal content only, and not that far off the spot price. Double Eagles for 8% under spot is more than most of these "Gold Buyers" pay. I can remember the threads from the "gold buyer" at GIM and he bragged about paying 20 to 30 cents on the dollar for everything, including pure gold bullion coins.

I don't buy "collectible" coins, I buy bullion. There is no liquid market for "collectibles".

SLV^GLD
5th January 2011, 08:32 AM
Universal Coin and Bullion - Mike Fuljenz

Beamont, TX

Okay, known shysters. These guys go by several names and have a sordid history of selling "numismatic" gold and silver to primarily elderly people at prices generally 3X or higher over market value.

These are precisely the people I would expect to set up shop in a hotel and try to buy at prices 2X-3X under market value.

Yet, if I read this article correctly, UCB/Fuljenz were the ones helping to expose these devious, hotel based low-ballers? I am confused. ???

cedarchopper
5th January 2011, 09:15 AM
Universal Coin and Bullion - Mike Fuljenz

Beamont, TX

Okay, known shysters. These guys go by several names and have a sordid history of selling "numismatic" gold and silver to primarily elderly people at prices generally 3X or higher over market value.

These are precisely the people I would expect to set up shop in a hotel and try to buy at prices 2X-3X under market value.

Yet, if I read this article correctly, UCB/Fuljenz were the ones helping to expose these devious, hotel based low-ballers? I am confused. ???


A shyster trying to justify his shystering by making it look like the 'gold buyers' are beating people out of the "collectible" value and only paying for the "melt value" (he makes melt sound like a negative term). A better expose' would be to take "collectible" coins to this "leading numismatists" and see what he would pay. Collectible coins, unless you are talking museum quality rare or billionaire rare, are valuable beyond melt only if you can market them...there are no exchanges that deal in "collectibles".

Ragnarok
9th January 2011, 07:29 PM
My take:
If YOU don't know what YOUR COINS are worth, STAY AWAY from these events.
Otherwise, just say...













...HELL NO!

R

Kali
9th January 2011, 08:50 PM
My take:
If YOU don't know what YOUR COINS are worth, STAY AWAY from these events.



If YOU don't know what YOUR COINS are worth, then what the heck does it matter anyways.

These type of sellers are just looking for some quick cash and these buyers give it to them.

If the sellers dont take a few minutes to do some research or get a second opinion its their own fault.

Nothing wrong with buying low and selling high...its how every business makes money.

BTW, Im buying SAE's for $5.

MNeagle
9th January 2011, 08:52 PM
My take:
If YOU don't know what YOUR COINS are worth, STAY AWAY from these events.




BTW, Im buying SAE's for $5.




Not here you're not! lol! Good try.

sirgonzo420
10th January 2011, 07:51 AM
Hell I'll pay $10 for GENERIC rounds and $15 for SAEs!


;)

1970 silver art
11th January 2011, 07:22 AM
I have heard of this. Last year, there was a full page advertisement in the newspaper announcing that there were coming in town and were going to be in a hotel that was downtown area. I did not go to this event but I remember that it was heavily promoted on certain local radio stations. Even though I have never been to this event when it came to town last year, I suspect that the Treasure Hunters Roadshow is probably no better than a pawn shop that will give you a low ball offer on your gold and silver. I am basing this on the comments that I am reading here on on Cointalk.

As long as you have people who do not keep track of what the spot gold and silver prices are and who do not know what gold and silver they own, then they will continue to accept low ball offers for their gold and silver and events such as the Treasure Hunters Roadshow will continue to exist.

The best advice that I could give a person that was wanting to sell their gold and silver is to do some homework on what you have before you sell it. With the information that is available on the interenet, then that should not be a problem to know what type of gold and silver that you own and to get an idea of what it is worth.

The second best advice that I could give a person that was wanting to sell their gold and silver is that ,after you do your homework on what you have, go to a local bullion dealer and sell gold and silver there. Shop around at several local bullion dealers to the best price. If you have a reputable local coin dealer that you done regular business with (i.e. buying and/or selling), then go there first and see what they can offer you. Regardless of what type of gold and silver you have, the local bullion dealer's offer will more than likely be much better than what the Treasure Hunters Roadshow would offer you when it comes time to sell your gold and silver.

osoab
13th January 2011, 04:59 PM
I posted a thread of one I went to last year at the place that shall not be named. It was sometime in January of 2010.
Unfortunately I didn't write down the specific date of the event or spot of the day. It had to be around the 19th of January. Spot price closed @ $18.65 (http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/daily_graphs.cgi) on 1-19-10. That would give the melt value of the Morgans of about $14.39 on that day. The "dealer" was http://www.ohiovalleygoldandsilver.com/.

I went with a buddy of mine who was pricing 80 Morgans.

The breakdown in price quote went like this.

Best 32 Morgans @ $10.50
2nd 25 Morgans @ $ 9.00
Last 23 Morgans @ $ 7.50

It worked out to about $9.17 each for the whole lot was offered. The lowest priced ones were not that worn from my recollection.

None were sold that day. I told him if he wanted to sell, I would pay above their price. He listened to my advice of not to sell even through the present day.

The "operation" was a mom, a young 20 something daughter, and a son who could not have been 20.
They also bought about anything collectible not just Au and Ag. They had "buyers" on they could contact that would buy many other things.

Here (http://www.herald-review.com/news/local/article_9048ee4c-565b-5653-bafa-c177437e31c4.html) is an article from a nearby town that had the same thing going on just before ours.

This setup is returning shortly to my area.
I may just take some morgans, phils, and SAE's to see what they are "offering" this time.

wvojak
14th January 2011, 03:22 PM
These type of sellers are just looking for some quick cash and these buyers give it to them.



Just like the Pawn Stars show. People are TOLD that something is worth $X "at auction" or "retail price", yet they're too lazy to work for the cash so they settle for $(X / 4-5) because they "Want their money NOW".

The flip side are the people who can't seem to understand that the Pawn Shop actually has to buy stuff for LESS money than it can be sold for, to make a profit. . "But your expert said it's worth $X, so I want $X!" :conf: