winter overnight experiment

[SHTF2010]

so here i am in Windsor Ontario

-12 C and -22C with the windchill

decided to try a 2 night experiment ( monday/tuesday )

basically i'm going out into the bush with

12 x 16 tarp ( brand new )
old comforter ( good size / found last year, dirty but dry )
old chair with no backrest ( found at same spot as comforter )
candles ( tea candles and 10 inch )

so what this experiment entails is
me sitting on the chair
with the comforter over me
and the tarp over the comforter ( wind break )
with a candle(s) burning under the chair

i've thought about cutting a hole in both to put my head thru
or
maybe cutting a hole thru both for a snorkel for breathing purposes

why am i doing this ?

1 - if TSHTF over winter, i believe there would be more deaths because of winter

2 - i would like to test myself as to just how much minimal gear i could make do with for the above temps

not going to worry about sleep during the first night, just get thru the night with minimal gear
the second night is the " improvements " night
for the second night, i may get my junk sleeping bag ( found at same location ) and put that in between the tarp and comforter

between the 1st and 2nd night, will try not to get any sleep
for the 2nd night, may put the chair near a tree and see if i can get some zzzzzzz's sitting/leaning against a tree

i'd rather test myself now before TSHTF

[madfranks]

Sounds like an awesome experiment, good luck! So if the candle is below the chair, does the comforter and the tarp totally cover the chair to the ground? If so, how do you plan to keep the candle going, and if not, how do you plan to keep the candle from blowing out?

[BabushkaLady]

I'd be interested to hear what clothing you'll be wearing!

I've extreme cold-weather camped in Alaska and the lower 48 at some high altitudes. Good thing you're not planning on getting any sleep. You won't get any, with just that get-up.

Do take some back-up stuff to add-on as you perform your "experiment". You can keep a log to justify how long it takes to add layers. It's much more difficult to warm up after you are freezing!!!

Good Luck!

[MNeagle]

Fool. You'll freeze to death.

[palani]

Include a frozen lake, a hole and some fishing gear and you might be from Minnesota.

(Psssst ... they carry whiskey if it gets too cold)

[zap]

I just watched this guy today, survivor man, maybe you can pick up some tips. Good Luck. ;)

http://lesstroud.ca/survivorman/home.php

[SHTF2010]

Sounds like an awesome experiment, good luck! So if the candle is below the chair, does the comforter and the tarp totally cover the chair to the ground? If so, how do you plan to keep the candle going, and if not, how do you plan to keep the candle from blowing out?


the tarp is big enough to cover the ground 360'
and i've already cut a few inches off the chair legs
tea candles are supposed to be good for 2 hrs
i may start with 3 candles to get a warm temp and then cut down to one candle to see if the heat holds
if the heat holds with one candle, i may cut one of the 10 inch candles for a longer burn



I'd be interested to hear what clothing you'll be wearing!

I've extreme cold-weather camped in Alaska and the lower 48 at some high altitudes. Good thing you're not planning on getting any sleep. You won't get any, with just that get-up.

Do take some back-up stuff to add-on as you perform your "experiment". You can keep a log to justify how long it takes to add layers. It's much more difficult to warm up after you are freezing!!!

Good Luck!


i'll be starting with 3 pairs of sweat pants, 2 sweat tops, a hoodie jacket, a thinsulate touque and gloves
if the this " shelter " does hold the candle heat, i may be removing layers



Fool. You'll freeze to death.


instead of watching some outdoor tv show and thinking that's all i need to know
i'd rather put myself in a semi-survival situation and find out what really works



I just watched this guy today, survivor man, maybe you can pick up some tips. Good Luck. ;)

http://lesstroud.ca/survivorman/home.php


i'm a big fan of Les Stroud

[crazychicken]

Inrteresting concept.

CC

[k-os]

Half of me wants to scream "Be Careful!" and half of me thinks what you are doing is really cool.

So, good luck, and let us know how it goes.

[Dogman]

One small word of advice , the plan you have will have your head at the apex of the tarp, and with burning
candles Do not seal yourself tight. Carbon monoxide is not your friend!

[willie pete]

Sounds like an awesome experiment, good luck! So if the candle is below the chair, does the comforter and the tarp totally cover the chair to the ground? If so, how do you plan to keep the candle going, and if not, how do you plan to keep the candle from blowing out?


the tarp is big enough to cover the ground 360'
and i've already cut a few inches off the chair legs
tea candles are supposed to be good for 2 hrs
i may start with 3 candles to get a warm temp and then cut down to one candle to see if the heat holds
if the heat holds with one candle, i may cut one of the 10 inch candles for a longer burn



I'd be interested to hear what clothing you'll be wearing!

I've extreme cold-weather camped in Alaska and the lower 48 at some high altitudes. Good thing you're not planning on getting any sleep. You won't get any, with just that get-up.

Do take some back-up stuff to add-on as you perform your "experiment". You can keep a log to justify how long it takes to add layers. It's much more difficult to warm up after you are freezing!!!

Good Luck!


i'll be starting with 3 pairs of sweat pants, 2 sweat tops, a hoodie jacket, a thinsulate touque and gloves
if the this " shelter " does hold the candle heat, i may be removing layers



Fool. You'll freeze to death.


instead of watching some outdoor tv show and thinking that's all i need to know
i'd rather put myself in a semi-survival situation and find out what really works



I just watched this guy today, survivor man, maybe you can pick up some tips. Good Luck. ;)

http://lesstroud.ca/survivorman/home.php


i'm a big fan of Les Stroud



post some pics..... ;D

[keehah]

Fool. You'll freeze to death.

Or burn to death.

Be carful out there.

[RJB]

http://survivaloutdoorskills.com/cold-weather.htm

check out the picture with the space blanket and the candle towards the bottom. Sounds like your idea only smaller.

[Sparky]

It's going to be -5F (-20C) in the Boston area tonight. I'll be inside.

I'll be interested to see if the candles generate any significant heat, especially little tea candles. How do you plan to get oxygen under there for you and the candles?

Three pairs of sweatpants and 2 sweatshirts and a hoodie? Way too much bulk. You want thin layers near your body. A pair of thermal underwear (top and bottom) would be far more effective as your inner layer.

Why aren't you using/making a mini-tent instead? Isn't that what you'd do in a SHTF situation?

Good luck, man. Interesting stunt. Don't get hurt.

[Book]

i'm a big fan of Les Stroud



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3ZMGh7I4fM/SxCIC0pUEFI/AAAAAAAAA7g/T9avubVrTo8/s1600/Bear+Camera.jpg

Les Stroud always has a camera crew nearby and a rescue helicopter standing by.

:)

[mamboni]

Sounds like an awesome experiment, good luck! So if the candle is below the chair, does the comforter and the tarp totally cover the chair to the ground? If so, how do you plan to keep the candle going, and if not, how do you plan to keep the candle from blowing out?


the tarp is big enough to cover the ground 360'
and i've already cut a few inches off the chair legs
tea candles are supposed to be good for 2 hrs
i may start with 3 candles to get a warm temp and then cut down to one candle to see if the heat holds
if the heat holds with one candle, i may cut one of the 10 inch candles for a longer burn



I'd be interested to hear what clothing you'll be wearing!

I've extreme cold-weather camped in Alaska and the lower 48 at some high altitudes. Good thing you're not planning on getting any sleep. You won't get any, with just that get-up.

Do take some back-up stuff to add-on as you perform your "experiment". You can keep a log to justify how long it takes to add layers. It's much more difficult to warm up after you are freezing!!!

Good Luck!


i'll be starting with 3 pairs of sweat pants, 2 sweat tops, a hoodie jacket, a thinsulate touque and gloves
if the this " shelter " does hold the candle heat, i may be removing layers



Fool. You'll freeze to death.


instead of watching some outdoor tv show and thinking that's all i need to know
i'd rather put myself in a semi-survival situation and find out what really works



I just watched this guy today, survivor man, maybe you can pick up some tips. Good Luck. ;)

http://lesstroud.ca/survivorman/home.php


i'm a big fan of Les Stroud



post some pics..... ;D


:oo--> :oo--> :oo--> :oo-->

[MNeagle]

Cover your face too...

http://paul.kedrosky.com/images/foldaway%20beard.png
link (http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/2011/01/best_toque_ever.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+InfectiousGreed+%28Paul+Kedro sky%27s+Infectious+Greed%29)


http://oddessey2000.com/uploads/freezing_cold.jpg

[mamboni]

Has anyone heard from SHTF2010? I'm getting little worried. It was 0 degrees by me this AM and after being outside for 5 minutes you really start to feel it man. I can't imagine being outside in subzero weater with just a heavy cover, chair and a candle - that is hardcore.

[MNeagle]

Per the OP:


so here i am in Windsor Ontario

-12 C and -22C with the windchill

decided to try a 2 night experiment ( monday/tuesday )



Experiment starts tonight/tomorrow night. He's further west of you Mamboni, so hopefully not so bitter cold. Still a dangerous idea IMO. I can't believe he's Canadian & tempting fate like this.

2 fatalities so far from the NE USA cold: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110124/ap_on_re_us/us_winter_weather

I hope he has someone to check on him, or is within crawling distance to shelter... like his backyard.

Check in SFTF!!

[SLV^GLD]

As long as SHTF2010 has a non-participating watcher on a schedule I say this is the best dumb idea I've heard so far this year.

Lacking that I foresee a great nomination for a Darwin award.



PS (to the alcohol comment made some where above)
Alcohol makes you feel warmer when you are cold because it overrides your body's natural cold defense maneuver of concentrating blood in the core and constricting flow towards the extremities where insulation is minimal. Alcohol encourages the blood to flow more freely to the extremities and nearer to the surface of the entire body as the vessels and capillaries dilate. While an initial warming effect is sensed it will be short lived because the blood is now wicking core heat to the skin's surface for transfer to the air. Drinking alcohol in seriously cold weather without insulating cover has led to many cases of hypothermia.

[Book]

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f32/candle-heat-205/#post2068

:dunno

[MNeagle]

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f32/candle-heat-205/#post2068

:dunno


BUT, doesn't specify the temp in Europe. Perhaps below freezing, but sub-sub-zero w/ windchills too? That's a different animal all together.

I still think it's a foolish idea.

[BabushkaLady]

Looks like SHTF got the usual comments and a few insults from the group.

I didn't really read into his OP that he was looking for advice, more of a FYI post. I didn't really read into his OP that he's an idiot either.

I have a lot respect for people that get out and live. Many times that means trying new stuff and pushing it to the limit. He probably drove to his "bush" location, so I also have to assume he can and will ditch the idea if he gets too cold. Survival is a strong instinct.

I'm interested to hear his outcome, I just hope he's not embarrassed by the implications found here.

[k-os]

Looks like SHTF got the usual comments and a few insults from the group.

I didn't really read into his OP that he was looking for advice, more of a FYI post. I didn't really read into his OP that he's an idiot either.

I have a lot respect for people that get out and live. Many times that means trying new stuff and pushing it to the limit. He probably drove to his "bush" location, so I also have to assume he can and will ditch the idea if he gets too cold. Survival is a strong instinct.

I'm interested to hear his outcome, I just hope he's not embarrassed by the implications found here.


I agree with you, wholeheartedly, BabuskaLady, but didn't even a part of you want to scream "Be careful!"? Having lived in Florida for over 20 years makes me quite intolerant of the cold, so maybe it's just me. ???

[SLV^GLD]

I have a lot respect for people that get out and live.
There can be a fine line between courage and stupidity. While I applaud any scientific endeavor (which this proposes to be) I also hope the experimenter has implemented appropriate safety controls and acknowledges the realistic probabilities that he could well be overcome in this situation without some lifelines.
I have respect for people that know how to stay alive by using their brains.

[MNeagle]

I would rather be insulted, and take heed, than be dead.

He is proposing to embark on a dangerous, life-and-death experiment. It is NOTHING to jest about. No way, shape, or form.

And ill-equipped at that.

[ximmy]

I'm getting cold just reading this thread... gotta get a sweater..

http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/freddo2.gif

i'd rather test myself now before TSHTF

[MNeagle]

I have a lot respect for people that get out and live.
There can be a fine line between courage and stupidity. While I applaud any scientific endeavor (which this proposes to be) I also hope the experimenter has implemented appropriate safety controls and acknowledges the realistic probabilities that he could well be overcome in this situation without some lifelines.
I have respect for people that know how to stay alive by using their brains.


The line is called Darwin Award.

Always awarded post-posthumously for some strange reason.

[BabushkaLady]

I agree with you, wholeheartedly, BabuskaLady, but didn't even a part of you want to scream "Be careful!"? Having lived in Florida for over 20 years makes me quite intolerant of the cold, so maybe it's just me. ???


I wished him Good Luck. ;D

I could have offered my Wiggy Bags . . . http://www.wiggys.com/

For everyone that disapproves; He said it's an experiment.

[MNeagle]

I agree with you, wholeheartedly, BabuskaLady, but didn't even a part of you want to scream "Be careful!"? Having lived in Florida for over 20 years makes me quite intolerant of the cold, so maybe it's just me. ???


I wished him Good Luck. ;D

I could have offered my Wiggy Bags . . . http://www.wiggys.com/

For everyone that disapproves; He said it's an experiment.




Wow, BL, really your stuff/product??? If so, push it here!! It sounds great!!

If just a happy consumer, same advice imo!

[BabushkaLady]

I agree with you, wholeheartedly, BabuskaLady, but didn't even a part of you want to scream "Be careful!"? Having lived in Florida for over 20 years makes me quite intolerant of the cold, so maybe it's just me. ???


I wished him Good Luck. ;D

I could have offered my Wiggy Bags . . . http://www.wiggys.com/

For everyone that disapproves; He said it's an experiment.




Wow, BL, really your stuff/product??? If so, push it here!! It sounds great!!

If just a happy consumer, same advice imo!


That's funny MNEagle! I wish I owned that company! They made the best sleeping bag I've ever owned.

Being this is posted in Preparedness; I certainly recommend the company and sleeping bag! ;)

[SHTF2010]

It's going to be -5F (-20C) in the Boston area tonight. I'll be inside.

I'll be interested to see if the candles generate any significant heat, especially little tea candles. How do you plan to get oxygen under there for you and the candles?

Three pairs of sweatpants and 2 sweatshirts and a hoodie? Way too much bulk. You want thin layers near your body. A pair of thermal underwear (top and bottom) would be far more effective as your inner layer.

Why aren't you using/making a mini-tent instead? Isn't that what you'd do in a SHTF situation?

Good luck, man. Interesting stunt. Don't get hurt.


i figure the flame from a tea candle is the same as the flame from a 10" candle
i've already mentioned the 2 ways i'll be breathing
and air for the candles, the tarp wont be airtignt against the ground

with the tarp i have, i could make 2 tents
but i want to try a simple drap over my head first



Per the OP:


so here i am in Windsor Ontario

-12 C and -22C with the windchill

decided to try a 2 night experiment ( monday/tuesday )



Experiment starts tonight/tomorrow night. He's further west of you Mamboni, so hopefully not so bitter cold. Still a dangerous idea IMO. I can't believe he's Canadian & tempting fate like this.

2 fatalities so far from the NE USA cold: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110124/ap_on_re_us/us_winter_weather

I hope he has someone to check on him, or is within crawling distance to shelter... like his backyard.

Check in SFTF!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x768VAsOQSw


i will have a firecan, wood and a can of lighter fluid nearby, not under the tarp with me

back wednesday

[ximmy]

Winter overnight experiment...
Rambo approved!

[Sparky]

...
I can't believe he's Canadian & tempting fate like this.
...


Interesting fun fact: Windsor, Ontario is slightly south of Boston, Massachusetts!

The HIGH temperature today in Boston was 13F (-11C). This is unusually cold, even for here.

Where's that shiver emoticon? :D

[keehah]

Winter overnight experiment...
Rambo approved!
Its been done. Also in Canada. And you get to hear Rambo complain about the cold. ;D

Rambo - On The Set Of First Blood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1YtClq1-T0
(if too long watch a minute at 5:45)

[Mouse]

I am sure he is fine. Certainly would not experiment without someone to document? I bet he learns a lot of cool stuff that can help us while he is experimenting. We have considered even just going on a blackout here as a test and were like "um....no". Imagine yourself shoved out of your house and you escape into the woods.....then what? That (to me) is what he is testing. I want to see the results and learn whatever I can.

Thanks for being a crazy fucker and doing this experiment to benefit all of us!

M

[DMac]

SHTF2010 is no fool. I am interesting in reading his findings from this experiment. I have no doubt he will survive.

[SHTF2010]

ok
hands up
who wanted to change my username to SHTF-popsicle ?

monday night 9pm

candle session 1
started out with 3 tea candles and the snorkel
snuffed out 2 candles with a stick 15 (?) minutes later with a stick
didn't want to move my head too much in case the snorkel came out of the hole
the silence took me back to when i was a kid going to sleep just after a scary movie
i could hear myself breathing thru the snorkel
( Luke, i am your father )
didn't find the nose squeeze thingy so i went with foam earplugs in my nostrils
fast forward to the tea candles going out ( 2 hours later ? )
i notice the cold on my back
maybe because the comforter is flat against my back ( no air circulation ? )
and my feet/toes are COLD
and all the wiggling/figgeting around wasn't helping
i stood up, walk out from under the tarp and started walking, trying to warm up my feet/toes
gotta find something to warm my feet
the firecan ?
15 minutes of walking and the feeling is starting to come back in my feet/toes
on my walk i found and broke off a evergreen branch about 3 ft long and a smaller " crow foot " branch

candles session 2
3 tea candles under the chair again to start off
brought a kitchen countdown timer and set it to 2 hrs ( forgot the first time )
placed the evergreen branch over my back
hoping it would allow heat to raise up over my back
and put the smaller branch on my head for the same reason
i knew i might be using the 10" candles
so i made a double candle holder from a 2x4 block
put the candle holder on the ground by my feet and put the firecan over the candles
waited a few minutes, took off my boots and put my socked feet up on the firecan
i had on 3 pairs of sports socks

this may work . . . .
BUT
it's uncomfortable as hell
with my feet up on the #10 firecan
and me sitting on the already shortened chair, even the pillow i was sitting on wasn't helping
every once in awhile, i had to do a heel-toe shuffle
because the top of the firecan wasn't big enough to warm both feet at once
my feet were just a few inches lower than my butt
and with no chair back to lean back against, it seemed like a continuous situp / ab crunch
thought to myself, don't want to be in this postition for 2 hrs
put my boots back on, stood up, snuffed out the candles and checked the timer - 32 minutes passed
went for another walk to a place that had some bricks to raise up the chair
when i bent over to look at some of the bricks
a quick pain went thru my side ( ab cramps / strain ? )
whatever time it was, there i was, stumbling thru the woods with my back arched trying to stretch out my ab muscles
found one of the bush trails and started walking
going back to that uncomfortable sitting position didn't seem appealing
decided to call it a night
as i was kicking my stuff back into it's hiding spot
i noticed the end of the snorkel had a buildup of ice
worry about that next time

there was a Tim Hortons 300 yds away on the parkway
started at 9pm
walked into Timmys at 12:27
was hoping to catch the 6am bus home
but i wasn't gonna sit in the donut shop till 6am
took a cab home ( i hate paying for cab rides )
the plan was to stay awake when i got home, didn't happen

woke up around 10am tues morning
swung my feet over the side of the bed, leaned forward to get up
and threw myself backwards onto the bed, arching my back, trying to relieve the ab muscle cramp/strain
spent tues afternoon laying on the bed with a pillow under my kidney area

there was no 2nd overnight

still want to try this again this weekend

1 - find a regular height chair with a back

2 - find a metal foot warmer ( 11x11x5 ) maybe a fuse/circuit breaker box
something that will warm BOTH FEET at the same time, heel to toe

3 - use the foot warmer to melt some ice/snow in a small can ?

4 - find a lounger so i can lay down with 3-4 candles underneath

when i try this again, i'll try cycles of 2 hrs under the comforter/tarp followed by a walk
and maybe bring a thermometer to check the temp under the tarp

[ximmy]

well... it's good to have you back... :P

[ShortJohnSilver]

Thanks for keeping us updated ... good that you have the presence of mind to be aware ... remember that hypothermia can set in without your noticing... it affects mental judgment, meaning you can be in danger without being aware of it.

Look forward to hearing more. Have you tried one of those emergency blankets, the aluminized ones? Would be interested in hearing how that goes.

[Book]

i could hear myself breathing thru the snorkel
( Luke, i am your father )



My favorite part.

:D

Seriously...please abandon this experiment SHTF2010. At the very least you need a buddy there with you for basic safety:


i noticed the end of the snorkel had a buildup of ice
worry about that next time

[Libertytree]

SHTF2010, While I admire your moxy and sense of adventure/experimentation, I have to ask the following questions.

As a practical matter, in what scenario do you think you might find yourself in that requires the need to explore this exercise? Would you always not have the ability to build a fire(s) big enough to stave of potentially life threatening temps? As far as shelter is concerned, in a desperate situation wouldn't you be able to build some sort of rough lean to/wind break/shanty?

[zap]

SHTF2010

Why don't you do the test like Les shroud did his when he was in the arctic, I am sure you can find the episode on his site, he dug what he called a snow coffin and covered it with a tarp or something and then put the branches over the top, he stayed in that a couple of nights no tea candles. ;)

[solid]

SHTF2010, While I admire your moxy and sense of adventure/experimentation, I have to ask the following questions.

As a practical matter, in what scenario do you think you might find yourself in that requires the need to explore this exercise? Would you always not have the ability to build a fire(s) big enough to stave of potentially life threatening temps? As far as shelter is concerned, in a desperate situation wouldn't you be able to build some sort of rough lean to/wind break/shanty?


These are my questions too. On one hand, I think it's adventurous of you to try this out. On the other hand, I can't help but wonder why...given all the knowledge we have here regarding preps.

I used to go snow camping in subzero temps with a buddy of mine. We would set our tents up right on top of the snow. With a good sleeping bag, and a thermo-rest, we slept like babies, comfy and warm. That's what I would do, is make sure you have a good tent, good sleeping bag, and test it out with a fun camping trip.

[ximmy]

Rambo would never use a sleeping bag...

[BabushkaLady]

there was a Tim Hortons 300 yds away on the parkway
started at 9pm
walked into Timmys at 12:27
was hoping to catch the 6am bus home
but i wasn't gonna sit in the donut shop till 6am


. . . . look what walked in at 6 am; bet she would've been worth a few btus for your experiment. ;D

Glad you're o.k.!

[Ash_Williams]

I thought about this a bit.

If something did happen, the first night I'd work my ass off building a shelter. You'll be plenty warm from just doing stuff. I'm sure of that 'cause I had to spend 6 hours shoveling snow one Saturday night at -25C before windchill... and it was windy.

And the second night, you have your shelter to sleep in with the fire burning.

[freespirit]

i'm a big fan of Les Stroud





Les Stroud always has a camera crew nearby and a rescue helicopter standing by.

:)





c'mon book...that's a picture of bear grills....les stroud is canadian! not some limey that drinks his own urine! lol

this is les stroud...

[freespirit]

SHTF2010

Why don't you do the test like Les shroud did his when he was in the arctic, I am sure you can find the episode on his site, he dug what he called a snow coffin and covered it with a tarp or something and then put the branches over the top, he stayed in that a couple of nights no tea candles. ;)


snow caves are an excellent way to make shelter in the winter time...just make your sleeping ledge 6 - 8 inches off the floor to provide a cold sink. if you like, poke a hole in the roof for ventilation...you could even have a (very) small fire if you wanted to...

i spent a few nights in snow caves when i lived in the rockies...wouldn't hesitate to do it again, in an emergency.
emergecy candles would work well for this, and snow is an excellent insulator...possibly better than the tarp and comforter set-up...

good on ya for doing the research, SHTF, i admire your gumption.