Remember the occultic analysis of Much Music MVA awards?

[bellevuebully]

An analysis of Lady Gaga's :sicko Fame Monster video from the same author.......

http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=2737


You may or may not agree, but I find it very ironic, now that I am older, to see the obvious Luciferian/Masonic influences in the music industry, after having for years, ridiculed the 'older' generations claims of Satanisms involvement in music. Looking back, I'm pretty sure they were right on the money.

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

yup.

I've come to realize the same about the older generation. Funny that.

When we're young we see what we want to. When were older... well, some people never grow up.

[bellevuebully]

Believe in mind controlled illuminate slaves? What do you make of this reaction to the word 'Lord'? Beyond odd.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtev708VdDE&feature=player_embedded

[bellevuebully]

Here we go with some pics. This is gonna be a bit of a long string.

I'm sure all of this is quite coincidental. I see people posing like this all the time. :sarc:

The split face imagery is very dominate also.....fractured identity/mind control.

[bellevuebully]

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[bellevuebully]

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[bellevuebully]

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[bellevuebully]

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[bellevuebully]

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[bellevuebully]

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[bellevuebully]

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[kregener]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2c0_VIeCwM4/S_XbwxWtF8I/AAAAAAAAAFk/NDTYDMcGh5A/s1600/beyonce-jay-z-occult-mtv-satanic-mk-ultra.jpg

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQynJ1fi5OD9zuRHXvvmsU0PyOawCX30 9w_K6pa6AGVJUh-gxxX&t=1

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2725379096_153dc20bec_o.jpg

[bellevuebully]

Neat trick eh? M is for monster. Or just use the text for 6 three times. Hmmmmmm.

[Book]

...now that I am older, to see the obvious Luciferian/Masonic influences in the music industry, after having for years, ridiculed the 'older' generations claims of Satanisms involvement in music. Looking back, I'm pretty sure they were right on the money.



Same here. Kinda obvious to me now how the kids today are subconsciously conditioned to regard their own Dad as a buffoon (http://familyhealthandhome.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/the-simpsons-vs-family-guy.jpg) while being brainwashed by the NWO. Today jew teevee raises the goy children.

[bellevuebully]

This is so blatently obvious, I refuse to support this industry any longer.

[bellevuebully]

...now that I am older, to see the obvious Luciferian/Masonic influences in the music industry, after having for years, ridiculed the 'older' generations claims of Satanisms involvement in music. Looking back, I'm pretty sure they were right on the money.



Same here. Kinda obvious to me now how the kids today are subconsciously conditioned to regard their own Dad as a buffoon (http://familyhealthandhome.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/the-simpsons-vs-family-guy.jpg) while being brainwashed by the NWO. Today jew teevee raises the goy children.


What can we expect when we raise The Simpsons and Family Guy up as humourous? It's funny.........till you start to realize they are talking about you.

[Book]

...now that I am older, to see the obvious Luciferian/Masonic influences in the music industry, after having for years, ridiculed the 'older' generations claims of Satanisms involvement in music. Looking back, I'm pretty sure they were right on the money.



Same here. Kinda obvious to me now how the kids today are subconsciously conditioned to regard their own Dad as a buffoon (http://familyhealthandhome.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/the-simpsons-vs-family-guy.jpg) while being brainwashed by the NWO. Today jew teevee raises the goy children.


What can we expect when we raise The Simpsons and Family Guy up as humourous? It's funny.........till you start to realize they are talking about you.



http://www.dio.net/pictures_cd/pat_boone_in_a_metal_mood_front_big.jpg

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/pat-boone1.jpg


Boone's talent as a singer and actor, combined with his old-fashioned values, contributed to his popularity in the early rock and roll era. He continues to entertain and perform, and is also a motivational speaker, a television personality, a conservative political commentator, a Republican, and a Christian activist, writer and preacher.

In 1997 Pat Boone finally got the message from his agent and tried to revive his career in the jew music industry.

:oo-->

[bellevuebully]

Here are some very lovely quotes you can share around the dinner table......

A symbol veils or hides a secret and is that which veils certain mysterious forces. These energies when released can have a potent effect. - Foster Bailey, The Spirit of Freemasonry

Rock has always been THE DEVIL'S MUSIC . . . I believe rock and roll is dangerous . . . I feel we're only heralding SOMETHING EVEN DARKER THAN OURSELVES. - David Bowie

Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not! - Albert Pike

I wanted to marry Lucifer I don't consider Lucifer an evil force .I feel his presence with his music. I feel like he comes and sits on my piano. - Tori Amos

They digest it on a lot of different levels. Some people will see it and be disgusted by it, but maybe they'll be unconsciously aroused by it. If people keep seeing it and seeing it and seeing it, eventually it's not going to be such a strange thing. - Madonna

Crucifixes are sexy because there's a naked man on them. - Madonna

I'd kill my mother for rock and roll. I WOULD SELL MY SOUL. - Jon Bon Jovi

I believe in Morrison's incantations. Break on through. Kill the pigs. Destroy. Loot. F*** your mother. All that s***. Anything goes. Anything. - Oliver Stone

We were doing witchcraft, trying to make witchcraft music. - Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys

They're COMPLETELY ANTI-CHRIST. I mean, I am anti-Christ as well, but they're so anti-Christ they shock me which isn't an easy thing. - Derek Taylor, Press Officer for the Beatles

Christianity will go, it will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue about that. I'm right and will be proved right. You just wait.. . .We're more powerfull than Jesus ever was.. Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me. - John Lennon

...you meditate and you got the candles, you got the incense and you've been chanting, and all of a sudden you hear this voice: 'Write this down' - Carlos Santana

I sold my soul to the devil. - Katy Perry

In his autobiography "The Doggfather", Snoop Dogg says the devil came to him to make a deal that he would be rich and famous in exchange for
his soul. Snoop accepted the devil's offer (by his own words) and identifies that the point at which Calvin Broadus dies Snoop Dog was born

I really wish I knew why I've done some of the things I've done over the years. I don't know if I'm a medium for some outside source. Whatever it is, frankly, I hope it's not what I think it is - Satan. - Ozzy Osbourne

I met the Spirit of Music. . . . An appearance of the devil in a Venice canal. Running, I saw a Satan or Satyr, moving beside me, a fleshly shadow of my secret mind, . . - Jim Morrison

I was directed and commanded by another power. The power of darkness ... that a lot of people don’t believe exists. The power of the Devil. Satan. - Little Richard

He used to always talk about some devil or something was in him, you know. He didn’t know what made him act the way he acted and what made him say the things he said, and the songs and different things like that … just came out of him. It seems to me he was so tormented and just torn apart and like he really was obsessed, you know, with something really evil. - JIMI HENDRIX’ girlfriend, Fayne Pridgon

I can explain everything better through music. YOU HYPNOTIZE PEOPLE... And when you get people at their weakest point you can preach into the subconscious what we want to say. That's why the name "electric church' flashes in and out. - Jimi Hendrix

I was there when Dre said he SOLD HIS SOUL to the devil for a million bucks. And i swear, the Devil got a receipt for his ass. - Griffey, producer for Dre

First of all, we'd like to thank Satan... - Red Hot Chili Peppers at MTV awards

I love Satan. Christianity is so boring. If Star Wars didn't have that evil imprint, they wouldn't sell two tickets. Satan sells tickets. That dude, Darth Maul, he was down with Satan. Put it this way, Satan loves to party, he loves to f**k and he loves to eat rich, delicious food. Actually that sounds a lot like Kyle Gass (his bandmate)." - Jack Black

Besides, now that I'm probably richer than God, maybe he should come to me! - Natalie Maines, Dixie Chicks

I believe in the devil as much as God. You can use either one to get things done. - Peter Criss, KISS

I'm gonna abandon my spirit to them, which is actually what I attempt to do. You work yourself up into that state and you fall in supplication of the demon gods. - David Lee Roth

Demonic, that's what we are. - Mick Mars, Motley Crue

Get stoned and worship Satan. - Kurt Cobain

Elton John’s home is laden with trinkets and books relating to Satanism and witchcraft. - Bernie Taupin, Elton John's lyricist

http://www.popculturepastor.com/about

[bellevuebully]

...now that I am older, to see the obvious Luciferian/Masonic influences in the music industry, after having for years, ridiculed the 'older' generations claims of Satanisms involvement in music. Looking back, I'm pretty sure they were right on the money.



Same here. Kinda obvious to me now how the kids today are subconsciously conditioned to regard their own Dad as a buffoon (http://familyhealthandhome.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/the-simpsons-vs-family-guy.jpg) while being brainwashed by the NWO. Today jew teevee raises the goy children.


What can we expect when we raise The Simpsons and Family Guy up as humourous? It's funny.........till you start to realize they are talking about you.



http://www.dio.net/pictures_cd/pat_boone_in_a_metal_mood_front_big.jpg

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/pat-boone1.jpg


Boone's talent as a singer and actor, combined with his old-fashioned values, contributed to his popularity in the early rock and roll era. He continues to entertain and perform, and is also a motivational speaker, a television personality, a conservative political commentator, a Republican, and a Christian activist, writer and preacher.

In 1997 Pat Boone finally got the message from his agent and tried to revive his career in the jew music industry.

:oo-->




That is crazy.

[Book]

http://aryanwear.com/images/prussian_blue.jpg

http://www.micetrap.net/images/Prussian_Blue_We_choose.jpg

ADL put Prussian Blue (http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1231684&page=1) out of business. They had to literally flee for their lives.

[bellevuebully]

Very serious question for forum members, specifically 'non-spiritual' members, who completely acknowlege the masonic control mechanism which dominate society. I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, so let's try to keep this civil. I'm just curious how when you see this type of material you don't make the connection to Luciferianism.

Who is it that you think the masons are worshipping? Or do you think that they are worshipping satan, but satan doesn't exist anyway so it's all meaningless, in as far as the spiritual context goes? What do you make of the myriad of testimonies from those within the music industry regarding having encounters/contracts with Satan?

To me, it is quite clear they are in an all out war against Christ, and it vividly cements the reality of a spiritual battle.

[bellevuebully]

Book, what is Prussian Blue?

[StreetsOfGold]

interesting but I would consider this "spirit control" not "mind control" The new testament (old too) is full of evil spirit prosession and nothing has changed or is new under the sun

[Book]

Book, what is Prussian Blue?



http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1231684&page=1

Couple of little blond girls singing about White Pride. They had to flee California in the middle of the night. Later got chased out of Montana by the ADL.

[bellevuebully]

interesting but I would consider this "spirit control" not "mind control" The new testament (old too) is full of evil spirit prosession and nothing has changed or is new under the sun


I hear what you are saying Streets. It all comes down to the spirit. However, I also don't discount the many accounts of mind control victims. Who is to say men of evil where not subjecting victims to mind control back then. Satan is the father of all of this, and he was prowling around then as he is now.

Let's both agree that we can not be sure, and that the right place to be is in the grace and peace of Jesus Christ.

[kregener]

Book, what is Prussian Blue?


He provided a link to an ABC news story.

They are California girls raised in White Nationalism who sing songs praising Hitler and his henchmen.

http://www.beardface.com/files/news_images/prussian-blue.jpg

[mamboni]

I don't believe in a Satan. I don't believe that any of this is literal. I do believe these rich and famous performers are so because they sold their souls. These are spiritually defective people who make perfect tools for the powerful controllers. The controllers are the super rich, disproportionatley Jews by birth, who worship money and power and control. They turned their back on the God of Abraham a long long time ago. I think Satanic symbolism for them is merely branding. These are cold hearted ruthless people who do not waste time and energy on the here after and maybes. They are squarely concerned with the here and now: money, power and control. They view the bulk of the poeple as cattle, a "resource" to be exploited.

[kregener]

I don't believe in a Satan. I don't believe that any of this is literal. I do believe these rich and famous performers are so because they sold their souls. These are spiritually defective people who make perfect tools for the powerful controllers. The controllers are the super rich, disproportionatley Jews by birth, who worship money and power and control. They turned their back on the God of Abraham a long long time ago. I think Satanic symbolism for them is merely branding. These are cold hearted ruthless people who do not waste time and energy on the here after and maybes. They are squarely concerned with the here and now: money, power and control. They view the bulk of the poeple as cattle, a "resource" to be exploited.


???

So you think they turned their backs on God....who does not exist?

[bellevuebully]

Book, what is Prussian Blue?



http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1231684&page=1

Couple of little blond girls singing about White Pride. They had to flee California in the middle of the night. Later got chased out of Montana by the ADL.


Interesting. I gotta tell you though...my first reaction hearing that is these girls look mighty young to have formed opinions like that on their own, and just fired up an album singing about them. Maybe there is a bit more to it?

[mamboni]

I don't believe in a Satan. I don't believe that any of this is literal. I do believe these rich and famous performers are so because they sold their souls. These are spiritually defective people who make perfect tools for the powerful controllers. The controllers are the super rich, disproportionatley Jews by birth, who worship money and power and control. They turned their back on the God of Abraham a long long time ago. I think Satanic symbolism for them is merely branding. These are cold hearted ruthless people who do not waste time and energy on the here after and maybes. They are squarely concerned with the here and now: money, power and control. They view the bulk of the poeple as cattle, a "resource" to be exploited.


???

So you think they turned their backs on God....who does not exist?


Right! And as you insinuate, I don't believe in a God either. But the difference between them and people like me is I respect the natural rights of men; and they most certainly do not. You do not need a God above and a Satan below to have peaceful coexistence of men.

[MAGNES]

Excellent thread, when in high school we were big fans of Motley Crew,
even have the vinyl album with inverted pentagram, it didn't effect us,
the level of degeneracy today is much lower, back then just like
Ozzy sings, they were just rebels. Many are young and don't understand
what they are promoting, their managers and the industry
put all that together for them, no way for them to understand, do you think
Taylor Swift understands she was part of a masonic ritual and all it means ?
I don't. Ga Ga is the most blatant and been around, she understands,
she has to at this point. All of this on it's own would not be effective.
This fits the protocols too, false teachings, corruption.

http://i52.tinypic.com/1oodwl.jpg

[kregener]

Of course they did not form these opinions and ideals on their own, they have been raised by White Nationalists.

[bellevuebully]

I don't believe in a Satan. I don't believe that any of this is literal. I do believe these rich and famous performers are so because they sold their souls. These are spiritually defective people who make perfect tools for the powerful controllers. The controllers are the super rich, disproportionatley Jews by birth, who worship money and power and control. They turned their back on the God of Abraham a long long time ago. I think Satanic symbolism for them is merely branding. These are cold hearted ruthless people who do not waste time and energy on the here after and maybes. They are squarely concerned with the here and now: money, power and control. They view the bulk of the poeple as cattle, a "resource" to be exploited.


I respect your view Mamboni, but if I could press the question a little more, what of the Masons and their rituals that clearly engage in an act of worship. Why would they go to such lengths? Why would they waste their time on such symbolic gestures?

Btw, thanks for the response.

[MAGNES]

Very serious question for forum members, specifically 'non-spiritual' members, who completely acknowlege the masonic control mechanism which dominate society. I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, so let's try to keep this civil. I'm just curious how when you see this type of material you don't make the connection to Luciferianism.

Who is it that you think the masons are worshipping? Or do you think that they are worshipping satan, but satan doesn't exist anyway so it's all meaningless, in as far as the spiritual context goes? What do you make of the myriad of testimonies from those within the music industry regarding having encounters/contracts with Satan?

To me, it is quite clear they are in an all out war against Christ, and it vividly cements the reality of a spiritual battle.


You are right about that but it goes way beyond that, we just had this discussion,
the occult basically exists to corrupt, not just Christianity, but history, knowledge,
Western Beliefs and it's people as the main target. Everything the Occult does
can be boiled down to one word, corruption of everything, this is what they do
in reality. " by their works ye shall know them " Jesus and GSUS

[Book]

I don't believe in a Satan. I don't believe that any of this is literal. I do believe these rich and famous performers are so because they sold their souls. These are spiritually defective people who make perfect tools for the powerful controllers. The controllers are the super rich, disproportionately Jews by birth, who worship money and power and control. They turned their back on the God of Abraham a long long time ago. I think Satanic symbolism for them is merely branding. These are cold hearted ruthless people who do not waste time and energy on the here after and maybes. They are squarely concerned with the here and now: money, power and control. They view the bulk of the people as cattle, a "resource" to be exploited.



Exactly.

[bellevuebully]

Excellent thread, when in high school we were big fans of Motley Crew,
even have the vinyl album with inverted pentagram, it didn't effect us,
the level of degeneracy today is much lower, back then just like
Ozzy sings, they were just rebels. Many are young and don't understand
what they are promoting, their managers and the industry
put all that together for them, no way for them to understand, do you think
Taylor Swift understands she was part of a masonic ritual and all it means ?
I don't. Ga Ga is the most blatant and been around, she understands,
she has to at this point. All of this on it's own would not be effective.
This fits the protocols too, false teachings, corruption.

http://i52.tinypic.com/1oodwl.jpg




I don't know how accurate it is to say it didn't effect us......have a look at what America is today. It effected somebody.

You've probably seen the rockumentary We Sold Our Souls for Rock and Roll......this infiltration goes back a long way. As much as the level of decency you mention when we had these vinyls, go back one more generation and look at the reaction from the parents in the 50's to the likes of Elvis and Chuck Berry and all of those guys. America has been in steady decline since that time. I think music has played a major role in that. It might be worth rethinking whether it has been benign.

[Book]

They are California girls raised in White Nationalism who sing songs praising Hitler and his henchmen.



Yeah...they don't sing popular Kill Whitey rap songs for the jew music industry.

:oo-->

[MAGNES]

I respect your view Mamboni, but if I could press the question a little more, what of the Masons and their rituals that clearly engage in an act of worship. Why would they go to such lengths? Why would they waste their time on such symbolic gestures?

Btw, thanks for the response.


They practice in black magic by their admissions in writing in their own works,
and these are ritual displays of hate. They are revealing themselves
more and more as more of the corruption becomes plain to see
for all, mainstream entertainment is just one small area, the
wars are about this too, corruption, they invented terrorism.
They burned Alexandria to the ground, a Greek city, destroying libraries.
I have a post coming on this, Revilo with his Roman Historian
quotes, more proof of what EM says.

You can't understand the Occult without understanding the Jews.
There is no separating them. Talmud, Kaballah, Zohar, I am no expert
but we got lots of this information, and it fits.

[bellevuebully]

Very serious question for forum members, specifically 'non-spiritual' members, who completely acknowlege the masonic control mechanism which dominate society. I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, so let's try to keep this civil. I'm just curious how when you see this type of material you don't make the connection to Luciferianism.

Who is it that you think the masons are worshipping? Or do you think that they are worshipping satan, but satan doesn't exist anyway so it's all meaningless, in as far as the spiritual context goes? What do you make of the myriad of testimonies from those within the music industry regarding having encounters/contracts with Satan?

To me, it is quite clear they are in an all out war against Christ, and it vividly cements the reality of a spiritual battle.


edit.....looks like you caught that already....thanks Magnes.

You are right about that but it goes way beyond that, we just had this discussion,
the occult basically exists to corrupt, not just Christianity, but history, knowledge,
Western Beliefs and it's people as the main target. Everything the Occult does
can be boiled down to one word, corruption of everything, this is what they do
in reality. " by their works ye shall know them " Jesus and GSUS


As I asked Mamboni, why do you think they go through all of the gestures of worship? What is the benefit? In acknowleging their actions as real, I think it only prudent to look at all of their practices and ask 'why?'.

edit....I think you got to it already. thx

[Book]

Of course they did not form these opinions and ideals on their own, they have been raised by White Nationalists.


Did your mommy and daddy ever take you to church?

:oo-->

[kregener]

Yes, I was indeed raised in Christianity.

And I thank God for it every day.

[Book]

Why would they go to such lengths? Why would they waste their time on such symbolic gestures?



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mpBGa4P5jUo/SMbgr2V6SwI/AAAAAAAABdA/pX19QrBeYDs/s400/timemachine2.jpg

Goyim have been easily manipulated by Talmudic symbols since forever.

[Book]

Yes, I was indeed raised in Christianity.

And I thank God for it every day.



Quite the Israel supporter too.

:D

[bellevuebully]

You can't understand the Occult without understanding the Jews.
There is no separating them. Talmud, Kaballah, Zohar, I am no expert
but we got lots of this information, and it fits.


I guess the difference on our viewpoint hinges on where we draw the line of responsibility. You draw it ultimately in the here and now with man, which I respect, but I draw it in the spiritual realm. I would say there is really no understanding the occult without understanding the motives of Satan. Looking back at the history of sun worship, mystery religions, gnosticism, etc, (which I am no expert in either), there is also a lot that fits when you understand that Satans primary goal is to counterfit the claims of Christ.

[bellevuebully]

Gotta go to bed.....working nights....can't believe I am still up. Catch you later.

[mamboni]

Very serious question for forum members, specifically 'non-spiritual' members, who completely acknowlege the masonic control mechanism which dominate society. I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, so let's try to keep this civil. I'm just curious how when you see this type of material you don't make the connection to Luciferianism.

Who is it that you think the masons are worshipping? Or do you think that they are worshipping satan, but satan doesn't exist anyway so it's all meaningless, in as far as the spiritual context goes? What do you make of the myriad of testimonies from those within the music industry regarding having encounters/contracts with Satan?

To me, it is quite clear they are in an all out war against Christ, and it vividly cements the reality of a spiritual battle.


edit.....looks like you caught that already....thanks Magnes.

You are right about that but it goes way beyond that, we just had this discussion,
the occult basically exists to corrupt, not just Christianity, but history, knowledge,
Western Beliefs and it's people as the main target. Everything the Occult does
can be boiled down to one word, corruption of everything, this is what they do
in reality. " by their works ye shall know them " Jesus and GSUS


As I asked Mamboni, why do you think they go through all of the gestures of worship? What is the benefit? In acknowleging their actions as real, I think it only prudent to look at all of their practices and ask 'why?'.

edit....I think you got to it already. thx


Men need their rituals, to give their belief construct a tangible feel and visual symbols to identify with. Masonry is ritual, like all religions. These rituals serve to encourage cohesion and loyalty amongst the membership and serve to promulgate their tenets and news of interest to them. But chanting strange words over burning incense or whatever the hell they do doesn’t make it real or transcendental.

Personally, I am a spiritual brother of the ancient Roman farmers that founded the city and the republic. They rejected religion and superstition and kept the ancient Greek gods around for sentimental reasons. These were practical men, men of the here and now, who believed only that that they could could see and hear for themselves. And many of the founding fathers, especially George Washington, were of similar sentiment. They were deists that did not believe the literal story of Christ as supernatural godhead. But the recognized that Christ’s teachings were the perfect code of conduct for a free and just society by men and for men, all men.

[kregener]

Yes, I was indeed raised in Christianity.

And I thank God for it every day.



Quite the Israel supporter too.

:D


I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but you are welcome to it anyway.

??

[Book]

Gotta go to bed.....working nights....can't believe I am still up. Catch you later.


Awesome thread you started here.

:D

[PatColo]

As I asked Mamboni, why do you think they go through all of the gestures of worship? What is the benefit? In acknowleging their actions as real, I think it only prudent to look at all of their practices and ask 'why?'.



I figure it's the same theme as corp's have become more active in that past few decades, because the expenditure was exceeded by the benefit, namely: "Team Building (Exercises)". Corp's pay big bucks to "consultants" to devise ways to foster it amongst their slaves. It's a euphemism for mind-control. Ironically, the zio-masons/etc, through these rituals, learned loyalty, seekrit-keeping etc are in effect mind-controlled themselves, perhaps to the extreme.

Separately, couple nuggets,

Mind Control In The UK Gone Bad? - Vid (http://beforeitsnews.com/story/382/498/Mind_Control_In_The_UK_Gone_Bad_-_Vid.html)
"2008. Two young, tall, blond, Swedish twin sisters run again and again onto a major motorway (like our interstate) apparently trying to kill themselves, even as police and paramedics try to restrain them. [...]"


Government Experiments on U.S. Soldiers: Shocking Claims Come to Light in New Court Case (http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/140206)

[YukonCornelius]

So wait, are Justin beiber andtaylor swift masons? Satanists? Both?

I'm just sort of confused by this thread.

Also, are there rich and famous musicians that don't fit this stereotype?

[wrs]

Very serious question for forum members, specifically 'non-spiritual' members, who completely acknowlege the masonic control mechanism which dominate society. I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, so let's try to keep this civil. I'm just curious how when you see this type of material you don't make the connection to Luciferianism.

Who is it that you think the masons are worshipping? Or do you think that they are worshipping satan, but satan doesn't exist anyway so it's all meaningless, in as far as the spiritual context goes? What do you make of the myriad of testimonies from those within the music industry regarding having encounters/contracts with Satan?

To me, it is quite clear they are in an all out war against Christ, and it vividly cements the reality of a spiritual battle.

You can let any number of things control you. The belief system promulgated by today's church isn't even close to what is written in the NT. Most of the theology you get in church is totally made up whole cloth. The idea of Jesus as your personal savior isn't found in the NT but it's sure a big hit with Fundamentalist Churches, it is the sales pitch for them. The Christian life isn't any better than the pagan life, it is full of ignorance, fear and hate. If Christians were objective, they would toss away most of the beliefs they hold after objectively studying them instead of flocking after Christian apologists who tickle their ears with lies.

Jesus is a symbol, not a person. Paul's writings all appeared before the first gospel, how did that happen if Jesus was a real live person? Makes no sense at all unless you realize that Christianity started out as another mystery religion but was coopted by Rome as a state tool of control. There really isn't a shred of historic evidence for the person of Jesus. All the stuff that the Christian apologists hold to has been long since shown to be baseless, most blatantly the Josephus forgeries by the liar Eusebius.

There are a number of alternate explanations of the basis for Christianity which make as much or more sense than the story the church puts forth today. The fact is, beliefs are things that are held as truth due to a lack of factual evidence. They are things we cannot prove but which we act upon as truth and therefore, they hold great power over us. It is very important then that people examine their beliefs with that in mind. Christianity when examined in this light is extremely destructive, just as dangerous to the person as satanism.

I get really sick of seeing Christians holding themselves forth as the only people on the planet with the truth and painting those that don't accept their beliefs as damnable and deserving of hell. This is the same thing that they deride in Muslims. It is pure unadulterated evil and yet they think they are made pure by the blood of their savior, how twisted is that? Exterior Christianity is just the oldest form of religion, it is ritual sacrifice to the gods. In this case the god becomes the local church and their sacrifice is their time and their tithe as well as the minds of their children. To believe that a man died and you drink his blood and that makes you good is just as bad as the Mayan sacrifices, even if it's not real, the symbolic intent has the same effect on the subconscious level. I see Christians that hate John Lennon and have him damned to hell for writing Imagine. Well he was right and why would he be damned to hell if he didn't believe in it? I am afraid a lot of Christians are in a hell of their own because they are shamed by the guilt of their own lower self.

Christianity is really sick and it traps people in a system that holds them down and makes them powerless over their own lives. They are trapped by a very fatal belief system. It is really sad and I am glad that after 25 years of fundamentalism that I got out. I could never reconcile the stupidity that I saw in the church with the stated goals and finally after raising five kids and seeing that the teachings of the church really didn't mean a thing in their lives, I realized what the church teaches is in the main, a load of crap. I knew that going in but I set it aside because I wanted to change myself and I thought I couldn't do it and needed outside help. That is the fatal flaw. I have now come to realize that all the good in my life has come from me, but on the other side, so has all the bad.

People have a great deal of untapped power and some parts of religions allow a glimpse of the power but really, our greatest power is our will. If one works on their will they discover that it is the thing that empowers belief, not the thing believed in. Will and intent are what we have and it is what can allow us to achieve higher states of consciousness. If there was a Jesus, this is likely what he demonstrated with his occult and mystic practices. That of course is the antithesis of Christianity today which is a materialistic and powerless sham that traps people into thinking they are something that they are not.

[RJB]

LOL which masonic lodge did you learn all this warped "history," flat out lies, and christian stereotypes?


You can let any number of things control you. The belief system promulgated by today's church isn't even close to what is written in the NT. Most of the theology you get in church is totally made up whole cloth. The idea of Jesus as your personal savior isn't found in the NT but it's sure a big hit with Fundamentalist Churches, it is the sales pitch for them. The Christian life isn't any better than the pagan life, it is full of ignorance, fear and hate. If Christians were objective, they would toss away most of the beliefs they hold after objectively studying them instead of flocking after Christian apologists who tickle their ears with lies.

Jesus is a symbol, not a person. Paul's writings all appeared before the first gospel, how did that happen if Jesus was a real live person? Makes no sense at all unless you realize that Christianity started out as another mystery religion but was coopted by Rome as a state tool of control. There really isn't a shred of historic evidence for the person of Jesus. All the stuff that the Christian apologists hold to has been long since shown to be baseless, most blatantly the Josephus forgeries by the liar Eusebius.

There are a number of alternate explanations of the basis for Christianity which make as much or more sense than the story the church puts forth today. The fact is, beliefs are things that are held as truth due to a lack of factual evidence. They are things we cannot prove but which we act upon as truth and therefore, they hold great power over us. It is very important then that people examine their beliefs with that in mind. Christianity when examined in this light is extremely destructive, just as dangerous to the person as satanism.

I get really sick of seeing Christians holding themselves forth as the only people on the planet with the truth and painting those that don't accept their beliefs as damnable and deserving of hell. This is the same thing that they deride in Muslims. It is pure unadulterated evil and yet they think they are made pure by the blood of their savior, how twisted is that? Exterior Christianity is just the oldest form of religion, it is ritual sacrifice to the gods. In this case the god becomes the local church and their sacrifice is their time and their tithe as well as the minds of their children. To believe that a man died and you drink his blood and that makes you good is just as bad as the Mayan sacrifices, even if it's not real, the symbolic intent has the same effect on the subconscious level. I see Christians that hate John Lennon and have him damned to hell for writing Imagine. Well he was right and why would he be damned to hell if he didn't believe in it? I am afraid a lot of Christians are in a hell of their own because they are shamed by the guilt of their own lower self.

Christianity is really sick and it traps people in a system that holds them down and makes them powerless over their own lives. They are trapped by a very fatal belief system. It is really sad and I am glad that after 25 years of fundamentalism that I got out. I could never reconcile the stupidity that I saw in the church with the stated goals and finally after raising five kids and seeing that the teachings of the church really didn't mean a thing in their lives, I realized what the church teaches is in the main, a load of crap. I knew that going in but I set it aside because I wanted to change myself and I thought I couldn't do it and needed outside help. That is the fatal flaw. I have now come to realize that all the good in my life has come from me, but on the other side, so has all the bad.

People have a great deal of untapped power and some parts of religions allow a glimpse of the power but really, our greatest power is our will. If one works on their will they discover that it is the thing that empowers belief, not the thing believed in. Will and intent are what we have and it is what can allow us to achieve higher states of consciousness. If there was a Jesus, this is likely what he demonstrated with his occult and mystic practices. That of course is the antithesis of Christianity today which is a materialistic and powerless sham that traps people into thinking they are something that they are not.

[sirgonzo420]

WRS, what was your former name here?

[woodman]

People need a container to store their beliefs and life force in. They call this container religion. They allow a container to define them utterly and inelastically. The container ends up shaping them, in their ignorance they think the container is more important than what lies within it. Many people choose a container before they are able to form a cohesive mind-set of their own and they end up confusing the container with belief and understanding.

Prussian blue, for those who ask and those who don't know is a color used in painting. It is known for it's formation of a muddy brown color when mixed with anything else.

[woodman]

By the way, howdy wrs. I remember you from GIM and I think Curevents way back when. Welcome.

[wrs]

WRS, what was your former name here?

WRS, I joined the original board a couple months after it was formed. I had quit posting for a long period and when I came back the character of the board had changed. I quit posting again for a spell and when I came back I found that it wasn't named the same and eventually I ran across this board. I have WRS on this one and the other one.

By the way, people might notice, my belief system has changed. That is due to life having changed me. I am surviving the death notice of Stage 3B colon cancer since Oct 18th 2006. I am doing great but cancer was a memo that my life needed to change or end. I chose change.


By the way, howdy wrs. I remember you from GIM and I think Curevents way back when. Welcome.

Thank you.


People need a container to store their beliefs and life force in. They call this container religion. They allow a container to define them utterly and inelastically. The container ends up shaping them, in their ignorance they think the container is more important than what lies within it.

I resembled that remark once.

[Awoke]

Thanks for posting, Bellevue.

[bellevuebully]

To wrs.......



You can let any number of things control you.

Nobody can argue with that. I have accepted a set of beliefs, as have you. These beliefs control our actions. From what sources did you find or develop your new found belief system?



The belief system promulgated by today's church isn't even close to what is written in the NT. Most of the theology you get in church is totally made up whole cloth. The idea of Jesus as your personal savior isn't found in the NT

That is a pretty generic statement. I won't try to convince you otherwise because you certainly have the right to chose what you believe. My only response to this statement is that I find it hard to believe that several billion people, including men and women with educations in history, language, culture, literature and theology and have committed to a lifetime of study to it, have read the scriptures and all have come to the wrong basic understanding of it, while you and a select others see something completely contrary. Interesting. But as I say, if this is what you chose, who am I to try to convince you otherwise?


If Christians were objective, they would toss away most of the beliefs they hold after objectively studying them ....

You are doing the same thing you accuse of people with spritual leanings, but you exchange the word athiest for Christian. It is ironic how the wheel goes round and round.




I get really sick of seeing Christians holding themselves forth as the only people on the planet with the truth

Kind of like what you are doing right now? I think you should view your own beliefs also for what they are....a set of beliefs that you have formed based on things that you likely can't exhaustively prove, but yet chose to accept. I don't get sick of people who don't believe in Christ, I see them as those who do not see the truth the way I see it to be. In the end, the truth will be made known, but I certainly don't see any gloating involved.






To believe that a man died and you drink his blood and that makes you good ...

I am afraid a lot of Christians are in a hell of their own because they are shamed by the guilt of their own lower self.



That explains a lot to me of your point of view and why you might view Christianity the way you do. After 25 years, you don't really understand basic Christian theology. Maybe the answer to why is something that you already know, but have not acknowleged. Here is what I am referring to.......



...after 25 years of fundamentalism... the teachings of the church really didn't mean a thing.... what the church teaches is in the main, a load of crap.

....I knew that going in but I set it aside


That last part is the real kicker. Admittedly, you were never there to seek the truth of scripture, and when you didn't find it somewhere you never thought it would be, you blame the source where you didn't find it. It is obvious you are in a good bit of anguish over this....I only say this because your text carries quite a disdain for those who adhere to Christianity. If it was not anguish, why be so passionate about something that you have chosen does not concern you? I think some of that might have to do with being honest with yourself. Jmo....not claiming to be particularily insightful on stuff of this nature, but it is an impression that you left me with.



People have a great deal of untapped power and some parts of religions allow a glimpse of the power but really, our greatest power is our will. If one works on their will they discover that it is the thing that empowers belief, not the thing believed in. Will and intent are what we have and it is what can allow us to achieve higher states of consciousness.


This isn't religion? I would contest that it certainly is. You have just exchanged one belief that you never understood for one that you now believe you do. I would suggest the big difference between the two is that one has an intricate weave in history, geography, politics and social testimony, while the other is an off the cuff, opinion-based philosophy...which even in scripture, Jesus Christ gives the free-will and option to adopt.



That of course is the antithesis of Christianity today which is a materialistic and powerless sham that traps people


No arguments from me on that one. I firmly believe that we live in what Christ himself described as a widespread age of church apostacy. Things that are being preached from many pulpits today are things that if mentioned even 50 years ago would have had one deemed completely void of sound doctrine, yet today, these teachings are widely accepted. Admittedly, doctrine has always been challenged down through history, but the major tenets of them have remained. This can not be said for the last bit of it's history. Frankly, I think it started around the mid 1800's.



I wanted to change myself and I thought I couldn't do it and needed outside help.


I hope you find a peaceful solution. I would encourage you to try again, this time intent on seeking truth, not going in convinced it is a load of crap. I believe, that, as you put it, was your fatal flaw.

[bellevuebully]

I am surviving the death notice of Stage 3B colon cancer since Oct 18th 2006.



Sorry to hear that wrs. I hope you keep doing well.

[bellevuebully]

Thanks for posting, Bellevue.


Crazy stuff eh? Did you check out that vid on Gaga? No, no spiritual on-goings there..... :sarc:

[Book]

My only response to this statement is that I find it hard to believe that several billion people, including men and women with educations in history, language, culture, literature and theology and have committed to a lifetime of study to it, have read the scriptures and all have come to the wrong basic understanding of it, while you and a select others see something completely contrary. Interesting. But as I say, if this is what you chose, who am I to try to convince you otherwise?



http://www.prlog.org/10120387-learn-how-to-write-books-that-you-will-be-proud-to-sell.jpg

Gee...if the Bible actually is the "Word Of God" how come he didn't write it in a way that can be easily understood by all?

All These Christians Disagree On What It Means (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations)

:dunno

[silver solution]

You can't understand the Occult without understanding the Jews.
There is no separating them. Talmud, Kaballah, Zohar, I am no expert
but we got lots of this information, and it fits.


I guess the difference on our viewpoint hinges on where we draw the line of responsibility. You draw it ultimately in the here and now with man, which I respect, but I draw it in the spiritual realm. I would say there is really no understanding the occult without understanding the motives of Satan. Looking back at the history of sun worship, mystery religions, gnosticism, etc, (which I am no expert in either), there is also a lot that fits when you understand that Satans primary goal is to counterfit the claims of Christ.


And that is what satan's so call christian churches have done.

[silver solution]

So wait, are Justin beiber andtaylor swift masons? Satanists? Both?

I'm just sort of confused by this thread.

Also, are there rich and famous musicians that don't fit this stereotype?


I guess lots have mad a deal with the devil. Bob Dylan has stated he made a deal with the god of this world. I have seen it on youtube. It was on national tv that he did it I think.

Do all take the trip to the Cross Roads? I would guess a few have not?

[Serpo]

My only response to this statement is that I find it hard to believe that several billion people, including men and women with educations in history, language, culture, literature and theology and have committed to a lifetime of study to it, have read the scriptures and all have come to the wrong basic understanding of it, while you and a select others see something completely contrary. Interesting. But as I say, if this is what you chose, who am I to try to convince you otherwise?



Gee...if the Bible actually is the "Word Of God" how come he didn't write it in a way that can be easily understood by all?


:dunno


Too easy.............. :D

[bellevuebully]

You can't understand the Occult without understanding the Jews.
There is no separating them. Talmud, Kaballah, Zohar, I am no expert
but we got lots of this information, and it fits.


I guess the difference on our viewpoint hinges on where we draw the line of responsibility. You draw it ultimately in the here and now with man, which I respect, but I draw it in the spiritual realm. I would say there is really no understanding the occult without understanding the motives of Satan. Looking back at the history of sun worship, mystery religions, gnosticism, etc, (which I am no expert in either), there is also a lot that fits when you understand that Satans primary goal is to counterfit the claims of Christ.


And that is what satan's so call christian churches have done.



If you want to discuss this, you could start by giving a thoughtful answer to the questions I posed in our last discussion. You know where to find the thread...I'd be pleased to pick up where we left off.

[bellevuebully]

Gee...if the Bible actually is the "Word Of God" how come he didn't write it in a way that can be easily understood by all?


I believe it can be understood by all. I think the schisms in the history of the church that you pointed out have more to do with issues of man.....motive, power, etc....than the actual ability to understand the basic precepts of the bible.

How come a lawyer can take a simple law and turn it into mental gymnastics? Because he wants to.

[Awoke]

Silver Solution, I have seen you come into these types of threads and post a vague or cryptic statement, and then disappear and never follow up on your statements with any proofs.

Like when you called the worship of Christ (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/'religion-of-peace'-in-action-at-least-15-dead-in-russia-suicide-bomb-blast/msg117283/#msg117283) "Babylonian Idol worship".

You also made the statement that Jesus was anti-church.

I questioned you on that, you posted Matthew 6 out of context, as if we are all expected to hide in a closet when we pray.





[5]And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.
[6] But thou when thou shalt pray, enter into thy chamber, and having shut the door, pray to thy Father in secret: and thy Father who seeth in secret will repay thee.



The lesson Christ is trying to teach is that we don't stand out in the limelight, gnashing our teeth, rending our clothes and seeking attention, putting on a show as if we are more pious than anyone else.
Humility is what Christ was trying to convey, IMO.

But in what I take as an insult to Christ, you had the audacity to add your own writing to scripture, adding "in Churches" on your own accord, to give creednace to your statement that "Jesus was anti-Church".

The scripture Matthew 18:20 states:




For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.





Then you make the statement that you are the "Follower of 'The Way'", and post a bunch of scripture with your own interpretation along with it.

And then you quote Dead sea scrolls as reference, and the quote has no bearing on your statement that worshipping Christ is idoltry. You also start talking about the "Torah" and whatever else suits your cause I suppose.



So out with it. Do you worship Christ or not?
I'm not attacking you, I want to know what you are saying in succinct, clear language.

[wrs]

From what sources did you find or develop your new found belief system?

I don't have a new found belief system. I think that negative beliefs can be very detrimental and dangerous so I am trying to avoid having them. I very much understand that the Bible teaches some belief system but it's really unclear exactly what it is. I am culling my belief system so that it's more in tune with the life I want to live, not one that someone else thinks I should live.


I find it hard to believe that several billion people, including men and women with educations in history, language, culture, literature and theology and have committed to a lifetime of study to it, have read the scriptures and all have come to the wrong basic understanding of it, while you and a select others see something completely contrary

Where do you come up with this several billion people? First of all, most people in the pews of a church rarely read the bible and of those that do, only a very few actually care to read it in a way that doesn't involve a commentary or the guidance of another. As soon as you read the bible for yourself, you will find that you are in conflict with some doctrine of whatever church you attend. It's without doubt going to be the case for some issue, maybe not the majority but there will be something. This is of course the problem with taking the writings of men and ascribing them to God. There are so many different things written in the Bible that the list of things God has spoken on is enormous as a result and of course there are more than one way to view each of those things. Then the theology that is developed on top of that is even worse.


You are doing the same thing you accuse of people with spritual leanings, but you exchange the word athiest for Christian. It is ironic how the wheel goes round and round.


First of all, I didn't put atheist in my post so you should knock that off. I am perfectly OK with people believing in God. My view is that the God that people believe in is entirely a product of their mind, how can it be otherwise? You only know about the God of the Bible by reading what the Bible says about Him. Reading is nothing more than a mental exercise and any image of God gained by reading the Bible is indeed a product of your imagination.


After 25 years, you don't really understand basic Christian theology.

No, I fully understand it but I find it irrelevant to the real issues of life. Being saved from hell doesn't address any of the real problems encountered in life. That is Christian Theology in a nutshell. Romans 7&8 describe a transformation but they don't get you there and all the people who I ever met that claimed to have the HS in them, have no real understanding of what the HS is or what the flesh is. This is why the doctrine of original sin is so popular. It's a pernicious doctrine that isn't taught in the gospels and it's also not taught by Paul. Using Romans 3:23 and the fall in the garden to justify this doctrine is foolishness and entirely unprofitable.


That last part is the real kicker. Admittedly, you were never there to seek the truth of scripture, and when you didn't find it somewhere you never thought it would be, you blame the source where you didn't find it.

I was there because I was sold by a Four Spiritual Laws tract. I bought a Bible and started reading it after that and then I began attending a SBC church. I went with what they told me to do because I wanted to learn. That is the way you seek the "truth". So please don't accuse me of what you know nothing about. I wanted to fix myself, there were things that I viewed I needed help with. After I had fixed them my father pointed out that it was only me that had done it. In retrospect, I realize he was correct. There is more to us than we realize, we have the power to be the same thing Jesus was and we also have the adversary within us that makes that a difficult task.


I don't get sick of people who don't believe in Christ, I see them as those who do not see the truth the way I see it to be. In the end, the truth will be made known, but I certainly don't see any gloating involved.

See, you didn't read for meaning. I said I get sick of what Christians do, not sick of them. Lot's of people think they have the truth but no one really knows if they do or if there really is "truth".


This isn't religion? I would contest that it certainly is. You have just exchanged one belief that you never understood for one that you now believe you do.

It is a simple statement of fact, not a belief. My recovery from cancer is clear evidence of that. I was predicted to have been dead by now, instead, I am alive. I tapped that power within me to recover from the disease and to keep it from returning. I am tapping that power every day and learning more about it as I go. You can call that religion, it's OK with me, I have nothing against religion in the main. I do believe though that boxing oneself in with a set of beliefs is an error and that is why I am no longer interested in following any one single religion.


Admittedly, doctrine has always been challenged down through history, but the major tenets of them have remained.

Really? Which ones are those of which you are speaking? Have you really studied all the doctrines that your church holds and where they came from? Why don't you give me some doctrines that you believe have been around since the beginning? The stuff you call church doctrine is pure dictate starting with the Nicean council. You would be surprised how much of what you believe is nothing more than a dictate. Where is the free-will in following a dictate?

Now back to the point of this thread. What these people who follow satan or made deals with the devil have done is simply to align themselves with a power that exists here on earth and not in themselves. That is what most people do in this world, find a power greater than themselves and attach themselves to it. The sad thing is that they are generally more powerful than what they attach to and they don't realize it. The HS is the power within us, all of us, not just believers in Christ, that is greater than the power in this world. That is what Paul was saying. When Christians rely on the HS, they should realize it is within them and is always there no matter what they believe. Releasing the HS is not a matter of parroting some statement, it is a matter of knowing it is gnosis. Self-knowledge is what I seek and the way there is by studying myself.

There are a lot of paths to self-knowledge so I study a lot of different spiritual teachings to see what I can find. I am at peace with that. What I set aside when I first joined the church was my skepticism. I grew up catholic and became agnostic at 16. I didn't verify the claims that were made by the church before entering it. I used experience as my guide without actually first understanding the nature of my experience. My father tried to tell me and I thought I knew better, I found out later that he was right. Now I am using experience as the way to learn about myself. Experience is truly the best teacher but for it to teach, it needs to be examined objectively with beliefs set aside.

[RJB]

I pray that you are healed of cancer and I regret my flippant comment about masonic lodges after putting these two statements together. Cancer is a hell of a burden. I hope you don't find what I write insulting, but this is the way it appears to me.
It is really sad and I am glad that after 25 years of fundamentalism that I got out. I could never reconcile the stupidity that I saw in the church with the stated goals and finally after raising five kids and seeing that the teachings of the church really didn't mean a thing in their lives, I realized what the church teaches is in the main, a load of crap.


I am surviving the death notice of Stage 3B colon cancer since Oct 18th 2006. I am doing great but cancer was a memo that my life needed to change or end. I chose change.Living a lie for 25 years takes a heavy toll on the body: physically, mentally, and yes spiritually. The insults you directed with a broad brush towards christians in general such as "ignorant," judgemental, etc.seems to be a projection of the lie you lived for 25 years. What kept you in the "Church?" Guilt? A good place for marketteing your business? Socializing and gossip? For me the true essence of Christianity embraces Christ's Greatest Commandment, "Love God with your whole heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself." And yes every Christian falls short of that. It's human nature.

It's obvious that something took quite a toll on you, whether it was the church you went to, a certain christian or even your own conflicting belief that you compensated for by embracing what you called stupidity and unprovable. As BB somewhat stated, now you've traded that for being a fundamentalist of the unprovable to the other extreme. And you're grasping for any argument to support and justify your new belief.

I work in a health care field and I've noticed that people who get cancer at a relatively young age, usually carry a large amount of resentment and bitterness. I fear that you will always be under the specter of cancer until you can forgive the Christians who wronged you and forgive yourself as well.

[General of Darkness]

What's the O suppose to symbolize? I'm not up on all this stuff.

[wrs]

What kept you in the "Church?" Guilt? A good place for marketteing your business? Socializing and gossip?

None of that, it was for my kids because I wanted them to have a better foundation for life than I thought I had. What happened was that they were rejected by the very thing that was supposed to help them. Church was not what I had thought it would be and ultimately, neither was Christian theology.


It's obvious that something took quite a toll on you, whether it was the church you went to, a certain christian or even your own conflicting belief that you compensated for by embracing what you called stupidity and unprovable. As BB somewhat stated, now you've traded that for being a fundamentalist of the unprovable to the other extreme. And you're grasping for any argument to support and justify your new belief.


What exactly is my new belief and what am I grasping for? I would be interested to know what it is that you see in these few posts that express my "new beliefs". I am not going to make the mistake that I did before which was to say that what I believed in before was all wrong and what I believe in now is therefore what is right. That is the way to just make another big mistake. What I said I was doing is culling my beliefs. I think there is plenty of useful teaching in the gospels and also in some of Paul's epistles. I find a good bit of commonality in the teachings of the gospels and some of the epistles with what is in Yoga. The Yoga Sutra's of Patanjali would be a good place to begin to understand Yoga. There are also other places as well, the Bhagavd Gita is another good source. However, I don't expect Christians to do anything other than read some link on the internet from a Christian site that says Yoga is demonic and then refuse to study it because it's satanic. What a good way to keep people in ignorance and darkness. This is one of the main errors in Christianity and it's directly tied into the pie in the sky theology that people in church are locked into.



I work in a health care field and I've noticed that people who get cancer at a relatively young age, usually carry a large amount of resentment and bitterness.


Very true, I think cancer is as much a disease of the mind as it is of the body.



I fear that you will always be under the specter of cancer until you can forgive the Christians who wronged you and forgive yourself as well.

Very true and that is why I have forgiven myself for making the mistakes I did. I don't need to forgive others, I need to be free of resentments and anger, that is a better understanding of forgiveness than what we generally take as forgiveness. Forgiveness is more than forgetting, it is cutting the bond between us and the wrong that we perceive has been done to us. Wrong and injustice are all in our mind. We believe in justice because we believe there are absolute rights and wrongs. This cannot be true, justice is never served in any absolute or even relative way. Once we come to grips with that, we can accept anything that happens to us. One of the main tenets of Christianity is the idea that there is absolute right and wrong and that justice will one day be served. That is a delusion not backed up by any real experience that any person has ever had on this earth. Thus, to me, Christianity itself is very damaging and a source of wrong thinking that can lead to cancer. Believe me, much of my anger and resentment was due to things I believed were "wrong". It is very much what the church taught me to believe was "wrong" and to be righteously angry about that fed the resentments that could have been a contributor to my cancer.

[Sparky]

...
Paul's writings all appeared before the first gospel, how did that happen if Jesus was a real live person?
...

Please clarify.

The first "gospel" was Jesus' ministry, from about 27 A.D. until 30 A.D. Paul's letters were written in the 48 A.D to 67 A.D time frame. The four Gospels of the New Testament were written from the early 50s to as late as 100 A.D.

You seem confused about this.



...

I could never reconcile the stupidity that I saw in the church with the stated goals and finally after raising five kids and seeing that the teachings of the church really didn't mean a thing in their lives, I realized what the church teaches is in the main, a load of crap.
...


What "church" are you talking about? Your comments reek of a disillusioned Roman Catholic.

[Awoke]

After 25 years, you don't really understand basic Christian theology.

No, I fully understand it but I find it irrelevant to the real issues of life. Being saved from hell doesn't address any of the real problems encountered in life. That is Christian Theology in a nutshell.

There is your problem right there.
You're worried about this (Ultra temporary) life on earth, and finding a convenient way to navigate through it.
You're not worried about the (Eternal) life after this short test on earth.

I will just pray for you, instead of getting further involved with the discussion.

[wrs]

The first "gospel" was Jesus' ministry, from about 27 A.D. until 30 A.D. Paul's letters were written in the 48 A.D to 67 A.D time frame. The four Gospels of the New Testament were written from the early 50s to as late as 100 A.D.

Well you need to check your facts. The first gospel was that of Mark and the earliest possible date is 68-75 AD, after the last writing of Paul. The four Gospels of the NT were written from as early as 68AD to as late as 110AD. The so-called gospels were not written by people who had any contact with Jesus, they were written as hagiographies.


What "church" are you talking about? Your comments reek of a disillusioned Roman Catholic.

SBC for five years, non-denominational charismatic for 13 years, straight bible church fundamentalist for 7 more years. Not to forget, catholic until I was 16.


You're worried about this (Ultra temporary) life on earth, and finding a convenient way to navigate through it.
You're not worried about the (Eternal) life after this short test on earth.

This simply reflects your belief about life on this earth as taught to you in the church you attend. You don't know what comes with death anymore than I do. I do think but don't necessarily believe that I have lived other lives. I have no proof of that but it does make sense to me. Thus to consider that I will have another embodied life makes sense and it is also consistent with teachings found in the gospels.

[Awoke]

Well, without divulging personal information which is specific enough to tie my annonymous identity with my actual identity, I can inform you that I have died, and I was conscious after death, and I know that there is life after death.
In fact, I made a conscious decision to come back to life, when I could have easily sat back ond gone "with the flow" and remained dead.

At that time in my life I was astray, and dabbling in witchcraft and satanism, and I don't think I would have liked what was in store for me had I have stayed.

Whether you believe me or not is your deal, not mine.

[wrs]

I can inform you that I have died, and I was conscious after death, and I know that there is life after death.
In fact, I made a conscious decision to come back to life, when I could have easily sat back ond gone "with the flow" and remained dead.

At that time in my life I was astray, and dabbling in witchcraft and satanism, and I don't think I would have liked what was in store for me had I have stayed.

Whether you believe me or not is your deal, not mine.

I don't disbelieve you, I have read a lot of NDE testimony. I think you might do well to read War in Heaven (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/warinheaven/warheaven-III.htm). I think you would do well to read the Yoga Sutra's of Patanjali. A warning here, the Sutra's themselves are not very revealing unless you really know Sanskrit so you need a commentary. Not all commentaries read them the same way, it can be as bad as bible commentary is so be forewarned. There are translations of them to be found online but I bought a book at Barnes and Noble by Edwin Bryant that was pretty good. I have also read several of the online versions. If you are so sure of your experience, you should compare it to others and you should definitely not overlook Patanjali.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Prussian Blue is another name for cyanide.

The devil is a spirit and can manifest itself in just about anything. Usually it tries to own peoples careers. A career can be an instrument of the devil.


Hatha

[Sparky]

The first "gospel" was Jesus' ministry, from about 27 A.D. until 30 A.D. Paul's letters were written in the 48 A.D to 67 A.D time frame. The four Gospels of the New Testament were written from the early 50s to as late as 100 A.D.

Well you need to check your facts. The first gospel was that of Mark and the earliest possible date is 68-75 AD, after the last writing of Paul. The four Gospels of the NT were written from as early as 68AD to as late as 110AD. The so-called gospels were not written by people who had any contact with Jesus, they were written as hagiographies.

...


My point was, what difference does it make that the written Gospels were dated after Paul's letters? What makes you so sure the Gospels of John and Matthew weren't written by the apostles, or their scribes?

[wrs]

My point was, what difference does it make that the written Gospels were dated after Paul's letters?

That is a good question. To me, it makes a difference because we read in Acts that the other apostles were busy founding churches and preaching the gospel at the same time as Paul. Yet their writings simply don't exist in near the quantity that Paul's do and the gospels were not written by any of them at all. What it looks like to me is that Paul was teaching his own version of Christianity that was in conflict with the apostles. Eventually, Paul's teachings had to be brought into the church because they were popular and apparently successful. So there were several fabricated epistles added to the teachings of Paul that supported the views of the early catholic church.

The gospels themselves were teachings of a Jewish sect that may have been based on something like Q, a book of sayings. It's not really clear where Christianity got it's start but the book of Acts was very much unaware of the epistles of Paul even though it was written after the last of them. It may well be that the epistles of Paul were not written by the Paul in the book of Acts but later attributed to him. In any case, the epistles have never properly referenced the gospels nor the life of Jesus at all. The only thing that the epistles have in relation to the gospels is the notion of Christ crucified and the resurrection. They have always seemed a completely separate teaching from the gospels. So the NT in regards to the relation between the gospels and epistles seems strained, it doesn't hold together well at all.

It wasn't until I left the church that I started to look into the history of the NT and some of the alternative theories of the origin of Christianity that I began to see more clearly how little today's church has to do with early Christianity. I wish I had known of this earlier but that is life. Anyway, now that I do know it, I am better able to understand the nature of today's Christianity and particularly the fact that what Christians believe today was mostly what was edicted by Rome and thus no more from God than the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. It is strictly the beliefs of men but those are powerful things as I have noted before.

[oldmansmith]

Well, without divulging personal information which is specific enough to tie my annonymous identity with my actual identity, I can inform you that I have died, and I was conscious after death, and I know that there is life after death.
In fact, I made a conscious decision to come back to life, when I could have easily sat back ond gone "with the flow" and remained dead.

At that time in my life I was astray, and dabbling in witchcraft and satanism, and I don't think I would have liked what was in store for me had I have stayed.

Whether you believe me or not is your deal, not mine.


I believe, you, but you surely didn't die if you are posting here! I've experienced the same many times during OBE's. I do think this is what happens to us when we die, but who knows what is after that....you may float up to be consumed by the universe.

I used to believe in the bible, but can't reconcile an infinite God approving of one and only one book.

[Awoke]

WRS, what was your last identity here?

[wrs]

WRS, what was your last identity here?



[quote]WRS, what was your former name here?

WRS, I joined the original board a couple months after it was formed. I had quit posting for a long period and when I came back the character of the board had changed. I quit posting again for a spell and when I came back I found that it wasn't named the same and eventually I ran across this board. I have WRS on this one and the other one.

By the way, people might notice, my belief system has changed. That is due to life having changed me. I am surviving the death notice of Stage 3B colon cancer since Oct 18th 2006. I am doing great but cancer was a memo that my life needed to change or end. I chose change.

[Awoke]

I have a hard time believing that WRS is your first and only incarnation in this community, based on the content of your posts, and your comfort level of debate with the members of this community.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm "just sayin..."

[wrs]

I have a hard time believing that WRS is your first and only incarnation in this community, based on the content of your posts, and your comfort level of debate with the members of this community.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm "just sayin..."

What else would I be? I had more than one handle elsewhere but not here. I was WRS on the original GIM starting in Sep 2003. I don't know if the archives of the old board still exist but WRS was a pretty solid fundamentalist on it and at TB2k. You can check the stuff on TB2k out if you are a member there I suspect.

[Awoke]

I have a hard time believing that WRS is your first and only incarnation in this community, based on the content of your posts, and your comfort level of debate with the members of this community.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm "just sayin..."

What else would I be? I had more than one handle elsewhere but not here. I was WRS on the original GIM starting in Sep 2003. I don't know if the archives of the old board still exist but WRS was a pretty solid fundamentalist on it and at TB2k.

Oh, I'm sure the archives exist, but they exist on a masonic government database, not available to the public.
For datamining purposes only. "I thought is was an April fools joke too."





You can check the stuff on TB2k out if you are a member there I suspect.



Never heard of it. I post here pretty much exclusively.

[MAGNES]

It wasn't until I left the church that I started to look into the history of the NT and some of the alternative theories of the origin of Christianity that I began to see more clearly how little today's church has to do with early Christianity. I wish I had known of this earlier but that is life. Anyway, now that I do know it, I am better able to understand the nature of today's Christianity and particularly the fact that what Christians believe today was mostly what was edicted by Rome and thus no more from God than the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. It is strictly the beliefs of men but those are powerful things as I have noted before.


I thanked you by accident, this may or may not be true, what period are you talking about,
the differences between the various churches are small potatoes on the grand scheme of
things, the most important period was Constantine the Unifier, he didn't care what the
hair splitting was about, most don't, he was practical, he wanted an end to the divisive
bickering, that is basically where the Church was forged, the most crucial period for the
Church, after that it is largely politics and power, schisms between Rome and Byzantium,
two or 3 times, they were major, 9th-11th Century, after that it is the Protestant Reformation,
the Counter Reformation, and all the Protestant divisions as well, compared to the beliefs of the rest
of the planet, they have more in common and all divisions are small potatoes, people have
freedom to interpret and create their own Church helped by state even, post Renaissance Europe.
To me all of this is stupidity. Ask the average Christian and they can't tell you what all the differences
are about. Even people that try to study this. What are you blaming Rome for, be more specific.

[bellevuebully]

So out with it. Do you worship Christ or not?
I'm not attacking you, I want to know what you are saying in succinct, clear language.





SS is a Seventh Day Adventist. Out of all of the readily visible organizations that would be considered christian cults [in that thier doctrine attacks a fundemental component of the gospel message, such as Christ's deity (JW's)], the SDA is likely the most subtle.

The church preaches grace and faith, but they need to be followed up with adherance to the Law....that is not to say the law of the Spirit which the gospel claims is written on the hearts and minds of men due to being made heirs with Christ, but the actual old testement law.....dietary, sabbath, etc.

They follow a similar pattern to the JW's and the Mormons in that they have had thier foundings with a modern day 'prophet' (Ellen G. White) who claims to have had a special, new revelation and through this, justify an aberation of historical doctrine. No different a story than this history of Joseph Smith of LDS or Charles Taze Russell of the JW's who did likewise. In similar fashion to Russell, Ellen G. White had made a prophecy stating the date of Christ's return and when that did not manifest, they claimed (also like Russel) that the return of Christ happened, but was invisible. Of course the adherants of the organizaition all fell in line....and why wouldn't they...they operate on threats of ostrisization like all other cults.

SDA, like all manifestations of false Christianity, claim exclusivity within Christianity of having the only truth and that all Christian denominations outside of their own are babylonian sun worship. They also believe that 'the mark of the beast' is related to observance of Sunday as a day of worship, rather than Saturday and that the world, under the beast, will be forced to practice religious worship on Sunday only, and that those within the SDA will be persecuted unto death for not adhering, and thus will be the martyred saints of the Great Tribulation.

Might have some small details in err, because I am not in a good place right now to cross-reference, but that is the jist of it. I'm sure a research-machine like yourself can do a couple of quick searches to learn more.

Also, like other cults, when you are first approached by SDA followers, much like what you have experienced here with SS, you never hear all of this. They simply tell you they belief in salvation through faith in Christ. It is only after that much of this is revealed. Same as the mormons not telling you that Jesus and Satan are brothers and when you die and go to heaven, you will have celestial sex with many spritual wives in order to populate other planets in the universe. It brings to mind the saying that good deeds are done in the light. Hmmm.

Lastly, based on the issue of doing good deeds in the light and similar to the covertness I discussed above, there is a literal mountain of SDA sponsered web sites out there...most of them tagged to words like 'babylonian worship in the church', or 'pope is antichrist' or 'saturday sabbath' (<they string a lot in with that one).....that have to no direct affiliation to SDA indicated in them, but if you cross reference and double check the names and events detailed in the articles they lead right back to.....guess where?

I'm sure a lot of fine folks are tied up in this movement, for the resolve to follow the ot law would certainly take a good bit of committement and effort, but that is the spiritual deathblow for them. They are hinging thier salvation on works. Worship on Sunday....no salvation. Drink coffee or coke....no salvation. Eat meat....no salvation. These issues are clearly embedded in the old and new testement that the law was a mirror, and a reflection of our sin in that we could not meet the requirement. It is wholly the grace of Christ, who IS the Christians sabbath, that saves us through our faith in his ability to atone for us. As true as it is that good works follow genuine salavation, they are by no means the road to it. Neither are the rules and regs laid down in the ot.

[bellevuebully]

What's the O suppose to symbolize? I'm not up on all this stuff.


You see a lot of visual focus being placed on one eye in a lot of imagery to symbolize the eye of horus. They do this with the 'ok' gesture which is often also used on it's own and in conjuction with the 'devil horns' gesture.

Make an ok hand gesture with your left hand and have a look at it. Do you see how it forms 3 6's. Do that with your right hand and the observer sees the same thing.

I don't think there is a manual on this stuff (well maybe there is deep within the Masonic Lodge, or the church of satan), but look at the repeatability in the imagery. It's pretty hard not to notice.

[bellevuebully]

So wait, are Justin beiber andtaylor swift masons? Satanists? Both?

I'm just sort of confused by this thread.

Also, are there rich and famous musicians that don't fit this stereotype?


I don't know these details and I am not claiming to. I am simply looking at the string of evidence of occultic/masonic/luciferianistic imagery and messages withing the music industry. I only know who the top dog is. Don't know the level of everyone else's involvement. But I would imagine the same dynamics as anything else is involved, the longer and deeper you go, the tighter the stanglehold. fwiw

[Serpo]

Would have to say that a lot of these musicians would be directed to do this do that in photos ect without really understanding the full ramifications ie Justin beiber

[VX1]

It was only a couple of months ago that I was introduced to the subject of Aleister Crowley and his sick influence in Rock 'n Roll. Classic Rock is my favorite genre, so that was a hard rabbit hole to go down. RUSH has always been tops for me; a thinking man's music with libertarian philosophies. It was a kick in the nads recently to lean that Getty Lee is Jewish, and that it was KISS (Jewish) who helped give them their start. Freaking nothing is sacred. They really do own the entire Matrix.

I'm not a believer that there's a Hell. Hell could be where you're at right now, but you've gotten used to it. The concept just seems to be a construct of those who would rule by fear, and it's an idea that I don't need to force me to be a good person. I understand, though, that there is a certain type of person who needs the fear of punishment to prevent them from causing harm to others. The concept of Hell has stopped working on politicians at all.

[Awoke]

What's the O suppose to symbolize? I'm not up on all this stuff.


Are you talking about the "O" made with two hands? That represents a pyramid.

If you are talking about the "O" made with the index finger and thumb, with the other fingers extended, that is a hand gesture for 666.

[Awoke]

I think Satanic symbolism for them is merely branding. These are cold hearted ruthless people who do not waste time and energy on the here after and maybes. They are squarely concerned with the here and now: money, power and control. They view the bulk of the poeple as cattle, a "resource" to be exploited.


Tell that to the kids that have been sexually assaulted and sacrificed in the name of satan, by these sick bastards.

They aren't doing these rituals for the "here and now" profits and high rolling.

[PatColo]

I guess lots have mad a deal with the devil. Bob Dylan has stated he made a deal with the god of this world. I have seen it on youtube. It was on national tv that he did it I think.

Do all take the trip to the Cross Roads? I would guess a few have not?


How coincidental is this?!?


Does Bob Dylan Worship Satan? (http://www.henrymakow.com/does_bob_dylan_worship_satan_1.html)

January 31, 2011
http://www.henrymakow.com/bob_dylan.jpg
More evidence that society is being inducted into a satanic cult, and doesn't even know it.

[wrs]

the most important period was Constantine the Unifier, he didn't care what the
hair splitting was about, most don't, he was practical, he wanted an end to the divisive
bickering, that is basically where the Church was forged

This is what I was referring to, the first council of Nicea established the hypostasis of the Trinity in the form of the Nicene Creed. This is the most common point of agreement across Christianity. Around the same, time Eusebius wrote the first Church History and claimed to have been commissioned by Constantine to produce 50 copies of the official bible. He is probably the one who cemented the four gospels that we recognize today in the canon. I believe that reincarnation was declared heresy by Justinian in 553 at the council of Constantinople. The divinity of the soul was earlier rejected by the council of Nicea. There are many early church beliefs that have been made heresy since 325 which would have made the Christian religion far different than it is today were they to still be considered as valid beliefs.

[Book]

Make an ok hand gesture with your left hand and have a look at it. Do you see how it forms 3 6's. Do that with your right hand and the observer sees the same thing.



:o

[silver solution]

[quote=bellevuebully
Neither are the rules and regs laid down in the ot.




[/quote] They sure are. I think you are deceived but blind guides.

[Awoke]

Silver solution, fix your quotes. You have "Awoke" quoting something that someone else posted.

[silver solution]

[quote=silver solution ]
[quote author=bellevuebully
"Neither are the rules and regs laid down in the ot."



They sure are. I think you are deceived by blind guides.

[silver solution]

Silver solution, fix your quotes. You have "Awoke" quoting something that someone else posted.
You could say please.

[Awoke]

I can say "Thanks" for at least attempting to fix the quotes.

[bellevuebully]

Thanks for that PatColo. I want to paste the comment found at the bottom of the article you cited. I think it is important to highlight. Btw, did you view the expository on Fame Monster that was referenced in Makow's article? That site which I linked in the op is full of interesting stuff. Here are the comments I mentioned:

The purpose of the popular music industry:

John Todd was an early Illuminati defector. I first heard of all this through a bootlegged casette tape in 1979. In those days this information was passed along on bootleg tapes of lectures. A person in turn would make copies and pass them on. In this case there were two degrees of separation between me and John Todd. My roommate had the tape, which his sister had made at church in the boondocks where Todd had spoken. There was nothing in the mainstream about the Illuminati or NWO at that time, they still kept it secret until 1980.

Todd vanished in '79, For decades he was missing, then in 2007 reports circulated he'd been in prison for rape since 1988, and died of colon Cancer in New Mexico in 2007. What really happened was, they kidnapped him and reprogrammed him so they could discredit him.

Now you'll see articles saying he was a charlatan - but the fact remains it was Todd who first spilled the beans on the Illuminati.
Unfortunately, back then it just made a lot of us more intrigued with the occult.

The purpose of the pop music industry is to download spells into people that covens don't have access to, to spell bind en masse.. The same is done through all media - 'news' and commercials included. 911 makes a lot more sense as televised mass mind control working.

"Christian Rock" was no exception. Todd claimed to have funded Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel to launch the Christian rock industry with $8 million bucks of Illuminati money. The same demonic spell casting was done - Todd said "Christian Rock" was a "Satanic invention to entrap Christian youth in the same demonic spells as everybody else".

Todd said with demonic music the spell is in the music - the lyrics don't matter. Rock videos are 'not our friends'. It's programming.

A person may be better served by reading books. C.S. Lewis', 'The Screwtape Letters' is a good start for those who want to "de-creep".

[bellevuebully]

They sure are. I think you are deceived by blind guides.

And what would you consider Ms. White?

[bellevuebully]

As true as it is that good works follow genuine salavation, they are by no means the road to it. Neither are the rules and regs laid down in the ot.









They sure are.


In that case, you had better follow the whole of the law, every jot and tittle. Otherwise as being one under the law, you are subject to it and thereby condemned by it.

Have you had a lustful thought? The law to it's fullest would state that you are an adulterer.
Has your righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees? One infraction brings down the whole house.

What do you think Jesus meant when he said he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it? Do you think that he was endorsing it as a way to salvation? Then why did he come? We could carry on with faith in God and followthe law as stated in the ot. No need for his sacrafice. His coming fulfills the law in what the law could never do, his sacrafice could....reconcile us to God.

How do you offer the lambs and the bulls as part of atonement? Where is the tabernacle? It is part of the law, is it not?

My freind, it is grace or works......it can not be both.

[bellevuebully]

Would have to say that a lot of these musicians would be directed to do this do that in photos ect without really understanding the full ramifications ie Justin beiber


I fully agree Serpo. It's like falling into a bad crowd I guess. I would say for some (Gaga comes to mind, but I don't know that, or Dylan, as he has admitted), there is a formal pact. They want fame and fortune in this world, and satan exploits those desires to the fullest, and employs them in his plan.

[lapis]

Thanks for that PatColo. I want to paste the comment found at the bottom of the article you cited. I think it is important to highlight. Btw, did you view the expository on Fame Monster that was referenced in Makow's article? That site which I linked in the op is full of interesting stuff. Here are the comments I mentioned:

[b]The purpose of the popular music industry:

Thanks for that info.

Have you guys seen the 17-part series "Inside The LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation"?

If even a fraction of what he says is true, there's a lot of weird coincidences.

This is the writer's site:
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/

But Wes Penre made the text more prettified on his:
http://www.illuminati-news.com/articles2/00201.html

[Low_five]

WRS, I think, was the guy that chewed me up one side and down for trying to power a remote camera from the same location the signal was originating from.

[woodman]

Thanks for that PatColo. I want to paste the comment found at the bottom of the article you cited. I think it is important to highlight. Btw, did you view the expository on Fame Monster that was referenced in Makow's article? That site which I linked in the op is full of interesting stuff. Here are the comments I mentioned:

[b]The purpose of the popular music industry:

Thanks for that info.

Have you guys seen the 17-part series "Inside The LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation"?

If even a fraction of what he says is true, there's a lot of weird coincidences.

This is the writer's site:
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/

But Wes Penre made the text more prettified on his:
http://www.illuminati-news.com/articles2/00201.html


Anyone who has time should read Inside the LC, linked to in this post by Lapis. It is fascinating reading. I originally came across it on the old GIM site. His book 'Understanding the F Word' is worthwhile reading too. This guy is a hell of a researcher and must have an encyclopedic memory.

[bellevuebully]

Thanks for that PatColo. I want to paste the comment found at the bottom of the article you cited. I think it is important to highlight. Btw, did you view the expository on Fame Monster that was referenced in Makow's article? That site which I linked in the op is full of interesting stuff. Here are the comments I mentioned:

[b]The purpose of the popular music industry:

Thanks for that info.

Have you guys seen the 17-part series "Inside The LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation"?

If even a fraction of what he says is true, there's a lot of weird coincidences.

This is the writer's site:
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/

But Wes Penre made the text more prettified on his:
http://www.illuminati-news.com/articles2/00201.html



I've done some limited reading on LC. Very interesting stuff. I will look at those sites you posted, thanks.

Have you seen this thread I started back quite a while ago...

http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/i-think-all-here-should-read-this-site/


Caution: Rabbit hole ahead! Some interesting reading there on LC. Have a look. I would suggest a full reading... I think you will find it very interesting.

[bellevuebully]

It was only a couple of months ago that I was introduced to the subject of Aleister Crowley and his sick influence in Rock 'n Roll. Classic Rock is my favorite genre, so that was a hard rabbit hole to go down. RUSH has always been tops for me; a thinking man's music with libertarian philosophies.

I hear you. I have not looked at music the same since I started realizing just how much darkness there is within the industry. There was a line in the documentary 'They Sold Their Souls for Rock and Roll' that is extremely fitting and 100% true........."the devil has all of the best tunes". It is so true. Even feeling now as I do about the music industry and the products of it, I still find myself singing/tapping to a lot of tunes that I know were inspired/promoted by and with evil intentions. It is a powerful tool, of that there is no doubt in my mind.



I'm not a believer that there's a Hell. Hell could be where you're at right now, but you've gotten used to it. The concept just seems to be a construct of those who would rule by fear, and it's an idea that I don't need to force me to be a good person. I understand, though, that there is a certain type of person who needs the fear of punishment to prevent them from causing harm to others. The concept of Hell has stopped working on politicians at all.


Culture has certainly embedded a picture of hell that is not accurate. Contrary to what many think, hell is not even open for business. Where is the devil, according to the bible? He currently roams earth....as put in
1 Peter 5:8: Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour

A more accurate biblical concept of hell is actually what the person who rejects God prefers.....to be seperated and isolated from Him. It is described as complete darkness and isolation. Cut off from God for eternity. The simple concept is...they want nothing to do with him in this life, then they will have nothing to do with him in eternity. Even for a Christian, that is a hard pill to swallow. Most of us have loved ones that we care deeply about and love to the ends of the earth that are non-believers...it is not a pleasant thing to think of them as being eternally seperated from God. However, it is our faith that he is completely just, and complete justice will be the end result.

On the topic of hell being a control mechanism, or religion in general, I would say that is very contrary to the evidence when looking at it objectively. I know many would disagree, and that's just fine. We all have to make our own beds. But a person who decidedly serves God fears God more than man. Chistianity survived 300 years of vicious persecution under 10 pagan emperors.....that should tell one something about allegiance. I don't think that serves the emporer very well. I would say people willing to be wrapped in animal skins and thrown to hungry dogs for their faith do not make good subjects. You do know what a roman candle is refering to I assume. (below)

I realize that this may not all fit into your set of beliefs, but I thought I would share my perspective in response to your post. Thanks by the way for your input and good luck with coming to grips with all of the let down on the music front. I know how much of a bummer it is. I wish it were much simpler.

[bellevuebully]

the 17-part series "Inside The LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation"?



Incredible. I wish everyone between over 50 would read this. It would change a lot of peoples view on the world in general. Thanks again for posting.

[Awoke]

I recognize that music can be (and is) a powerful tool for the devil, but I will not subscribe to the idea that all forms of music are satanic/pagan spells, regardless of the lyrical content, because the "spell is in the music, not the words".

Bellevue Bully, don't forget that there are people out there that just enjoy music, and write music, and record it and release it. It's not all illuminati brainwashing.

I'm writing my own piece of acoustic music right now, and when the day comes that I'm happy with it, I will record it. If (on the off chance) it ever got picked up by a label and released, that wouldn't transform the music into some sort of MKultra tool. However I am also savvy enough to realize that satanic jew whores like Gaga are blatant tools for the lucies, and released on lucie labels, and promoted on luciferian television. Lucivision.

I have youg children who are at an age where shit like Gaga is the norm. My kids are 8 and 10. I have sat them down and shown them the luciferian symbology in the music industry, and explained how the devil works through subtle impressions and shrewd intrigue, using glamour, flesh and fame.

My kids want nothing to do with gaga or her ilk, and my wife shit her pants when I showed her the truth about Madonna, whom she had grown up listening to and adoring.

Anyways, that's another discussion. I'm just trying to say that not all music is bad, so don't be afraid to tap your foot.

[wrs]

WRS, I think, was the guy that chewed me up one side and down for trying to power a remote camera from the same location the signal was originating from.

Yep, that would be me. Sorry for that. Hope you eventually got that to work.


I'm just trying to say that not all music is bad, so don't be afraid to tap your foot.

Very true, music touches our inner being and it can move our emotions. It really depends on the energy carried in the music as to what it does, it can soothe or it can activate or it can support deep meditation. Music is powerful.

You should go read that on-line book, it talks about the various means of mind control including theological mind control from the pulpits of today's church. Music is a big component of the mind control going on in today's church.


it is not a pleasant thing to think of them as being eternally seperated from God. However, it is our faith that he is completely just, and complete justice will be the end result.

Nonsense, you cannot right wrongs, ever. Once wrong has been done, another right cannot balance it out. That is why your faith is false. Justice does not exist and you should get that out of your head, it would make your life a lot easier to live if you weren't constantly looking for right and wrong outside you. The best you can do is find what is right in you and bring that forth. What is wrong in you should be the focus of your efforts to fix it. That is the best you can do, there is no justice, get used to it. If you don't, you may well end up with cancer like I did.

[Awoke]

the most important period was Constantine the Unifier, he didn't care what the
hair splitting was about, most don't, he was practical, he wanted an end to the divisive
bickering, that is basically where the Church was forged

This is what I was referring to, the first council of Nicea established the hypostasis of the Trinity in the form of the Nicene Creed. This is the most common point of agreement across Christianity. Around the same, time Eusebius wrote the first Church History and claimed to have been commissioned by Constantine to produce 50 copies of the official bible. He is probably the one who cemented the four gospels that we recognize today in the canon. I believe that reincarnation was declared heresy by Justinian in 553 at the council of Constantinople. The divinity of the soul was earlier rejected by the council of Nicea. There are many early church beliefs that have been made heresy since 325 which would have made the Christian religion far different than it is today were they to still be considered as valid beliefs.


At the time of the first Nicaean council, the Church was (again) under attack from within by another Crypto-jew named Arius.
Arianism was a threat to the divinity of Christ, because Arius was pushing a montheistic view. THis should be expected as he was a jew in secret, and monotheism is the root of their religion (At least for the Karaite jews who actually worship the Father and rebuke the talmud).

So then, the secret jew, Arius, was trying to dismantle the Church from within at the time. Some quotes:





CHAPTER FIVE
THE JEW ARIUS AND HIS HERESY

Arianism, the great heresy, which split Christianity over three and a half centuries, was the work of a concealed Jew, who outwardly practised Christianity; a striking and infamous example of the descendants of Judas Iscariot, like all those priests who, as members of the “Jewish Fifth Column”, have infiltrated into the Catholic Church.

The well-known American writer, William Thomas Walsh, who is outstanding for his zealous Catholicism and has well documented works, says to us, referring to the mode of action of the Jews who infiltrated into Christianity, the following: “Arius, the Catholic Jew (Father of the heresy) treacherously attacked the divinity of Christ, and he was successful in dividing the Christian world for centuries.”29

From the trials by the Inquisition against the crypto-Jews, who were called the Judaising heretics, one can conclude that the Trinity is one of the Catholic dogmas which the Jews reject most violently; for what repels them most of all in their deadly hatred towards Christ, is the fact that Jesus Christ is regarded as the second person within the Holy Trinity; this means that God is One in essence and Three in person. It is therefore illuminating that the Jews, after they had infiltrated into the Church through their pretended conversion to Christianity, afterwards strove to alter the dogma of the Church in such a way as to regard God as one in person and hence to deny the divinity of Christ.







The basic principle of the Arian doctrine was the Jewish thesis of the absolute unity of God, denying the Trinity and representing Christ solely as the most exalted of all creatures, but in no way as possessing divine nature. This was one of the first serious attempts to provide Christianity with a Jewish stamp.

He neither attacked Christ nor criticised Him, as the professing Jews did; for then his mission would have failed, because no Christian would have supported him. In order to arouse no suspicion, he rather praised Jesus beyond all measure. So he gained the sympathy and interest of the faithful and then in the midst of all these speeches of praise he allowed his poison to seep in with the cunning denial of the divinity of Jesus Christ, since it is the point which encounters the most stiff-necked rejection by the Jews.

It is curious that, fourteen hundred years later, the Jews strike the same note when they deny the divinity of Christ and simultaneously praise Him in their doctrines and instructions in order to provoke no strong reactions amongst Christians introduced into the sect.



This blue text is interesting. That is an attitude I have come across from people who were raised in Christian environments, but have not stayed active with their faith.
I have heard people say that, a number of times: I believe Jesus was a good man and we should aspire to be like him, but I don't believe he is actually God"

My, how the 5th column smiles when someone says that.


Now about Arius, in regards to philo-semetism:




A further innovation which the Arian heresy brought with it, was the attempt to alter the doctrine and policy of the Church in relation to the Jews. While Christ damned them and upon various occasions attacked them in the sharpest possible way, and the Apostles did the same, as did the Church in general in its beginnings, Arius and his heresy strove to effect a true reform in this respect, in that they carried out a pro-Jewish policy and strove for an accommodation to the “Synagogue of Satan.”



Where they failed at this, the crypto-jews succeeded at the second vatican council. The Christian Church has been under attack and basically at war with the jews since the time Christ was crucified. Only the people raised after second Vatican Council are the ones walking around trumpeting support for israel no matter the cost, and saying that we are brothers through the Father.

That could not be further from the truth, because they are apostate and reject the Father, and deny the Divinity of Jesus, and disregard the Holy Spirit.

Now, let's look at Esubius and Constantine a little.




Like John Huss, Calvin, Karl Marx, and other Jewish revolutionary leaders, Arius was a man of strong dynamism, of extraordinary perseverance as well as an artist of words and with the pen, who wrote pamphlets and even books,30 in order to convince the Church hierarchies, the civil governors and other outstanding personalities within the Roman Empire.

The first important assistance was given to him on the part of Bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia, who on grounds of his great friendship with the Emperor possessed the boldness of wishing to win the latter for the Arian heresy.

Even if he was not successful in this, he nevertheless succeeded unfortunately in leading Constantine astray, by making him believe that it was simply a question of discussions between different orthodox viewpoints. Under this assumption the Emperor sought in vain to introduce a settlement between Arius and the Bishop of Alexandria. He sent his advisor, Hosius, the Bishop of Cordova, so that the latter might bring about an understanding between the two parties. No result was attained. As if it had merely been a personal dispute between Bishop Alexander and Arius!

In the course of these negotiations Hosius and the Church reached the conviction that here it was not a simple dispute between different schools or persons, but rather a conflagration which threatened to scorch the whole of Christianity.






It is interesting to remark that, after Arius had finally been excommunicated by the Synod called in the year 321 by the Prelate of Alexandria and attended by over a hundred bishops, the heretic at first went to Palestine, in order to win disciples. And it is further worthy of note that the first Synod to support Arius by betraying Catholicism was precisely that of Palestine, as well as that of Nicomedia, where Eusebius, Arius’ right-hand man, was Bishop. It is illuminating that it was Palestine where, in spite of the repressive measures of Titus and Hadrian, the most compact Jewish population was found, and where the “Jewish Fifth Column”, which had infiltrated into the Church, was very powerful. It is therefore not strange that Arius, declared outlawed through excommunication and in a desperate position, sought his salvation in flight, in order to seek support with his brothers in Palestine. He was so successful in this intention that an entire Synod of Bishops and high-ranking clergy, as was the Synod of Palestine, decided upon support of him and gave new power and prestige to his cause, which, after its condemnation by the Synod of Alexandria, seemed condemned to failure.



Now, I know this is a long post, but here is something interesting about the Palistinian bible.




2. What is the most noticeable difference?
The most noticeable difference is the absence of seven whole books and parts of two others from the Protestant versions.

3. What books are not contained in the Protestant version?
The Deutero-Canonical Books (See lesson 6).

4. Why are the Deutero-Canonical Books Omitted by Protestants?
Because the Protestant versions of the Bible follow the late Palestinian version of the Bible, which also omits these books



But this is the kicker.

Check this out:




The DR New Testament was first published by the English College at Rheims in 1582 A.D. The DR Old Testament was first published by the English College at Douay in 1609 A.D. The first King James Version was not published until 1611. This online DRV contains all 73 books, including the seven Deutero-Canonical books (erroneously called Apocrypha by Protestants). These seven books were included in the 1611 KJV, but not in later KJV Bibles.

St. Jerome considered the seven Deutero-Canonical books to be NOT inspired by God, but he was commissioned by Pope Damasus to translate all 73 books into Latin. Pope Damasus considered the 7 DC books to be inspired by God. Later in 1946, after the finding of the dead-sea scrolls, it was discovered that these 7 DC books were used by the Jews in Alexandria, even in their services. This verifies that Pope Damasus was correct.

It is interesting to note that the Palestinian Jews did not accept the 7 DC books for their version of Holy Scriptures and neither did they accept any of the New Testament. Unfortunately, the Protestants base their Bible on this version which comes from a people who did not accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah.



http://drbo.org/intro.htm

[wrs]

THis should be expected as he was a jew in secret, and monotheism is the root of their religion (At least for the Karaite jews who actually worship the Father and rebuke the talmud).


Are you familiar with Ugarit (http://www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm)?

[DMac]

I think Satanic symbolism for them is merely branding. These are cold hearted ruthless people who do not waste time and energy on the here after and maybes. They are squarely concerned with the here and now: money, power and control. They view the bulk of the poeple as cattle, a "resource" to be exploited.


Tell that to the kids that have been sexually assaulted and sacrificed in the name of satan, by these sick bastards.

They aren't doing these rituals for the "here and now" profits and high rolling.


+1.

I'm not one to talk about there being a literal lake of fire or anything, but some of the things I've come across in this world leads me to think these folks are not sacrificing children because it's the other other white meat.

[Awoke]

THis should be expected as he was a jew in secret, and monotheism is the root of their religion (At least for the Karaite jews who actually worship the Father and rebuke the talmud).


Are you familiar with Ugarit (http://www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm)?


No, but ziopidia had an entry that I browsed over, and I noticed a line that caught my attention:




It is almost certain that the cult(s) of Baal in the Levant influenced later Israelite cult and mythology. Yahweh often takes on the chaoskampf role of Baal in his struggle with the chaotic sea. It would, however, be incorrect to use later redacted biblical texts to reconstruct Canaanite religion or cult.



If they believe that ba'al and YHWH are interchangable, they are lost.

[bellevuebully]

I recognize that music can be (and is) a powerful tool for the devil, but I will not subscribe to the idea that all forms of music are satanic/pagan spells, regardless of the lyrical content, because the "spell is in the music, not the words".

Bellevue Bully, don't forget that there are people out there that just enjoy music, and write music, and record it and release it. It's not all illuminati brainwashing.

I'm writing my own piece of acoustic music right now, and when the day comes that I'm happy with it, I will record it. If (on the off chance) it ever got picked up by a label and released, that wouldn't transform the music into some sort of MKultra tool. However I am also savvy enough to realize that satanic jew whores like Gaga are blatant tools for the lucies, and released on lucie labels, and promoted on luciferian television. Lucivision.


I have a little more balance than to think that music in itself is Luciferian. As I stated in my post, it is when I find myself reiterating music that I know, or highly suspect has troubled roots, that I take note. I am however, much more suspicious now of music that I would in the past have considered benign. Good examples would be pretty much all of the music that generated from Laurel Canyon :D. :o 15 years ago, who would have thunk "If You're Going to California" would have had such dark roots. Many of the artists of that gendre admittedly state they were doing what they were doing to brainwash young Americans and/or they were under spiritual influence when they composed. Good examples....Vai. Ozzy. Alice. Zappa. Lennon. Young. Morrison. Bowie. Jagger. In short, much of the main is from the same roots. This is all stuff I grew up with and is heavily indentured in me. It certainly troubles me to know the admissions that are attached to these 'artists'.

It may be easy to say they were in fact benign, and to brush most of it off (not saying you are doing that, just making a point....because, yeah, it's all stuff we grew up on and on the surface seems innocent enough), but look where the main has gotten us. There is method in both their approach and substance, and due that, I will err on the side of caution. There is more important and fulfulling things in life that music for me anyhow, so I don't consider it a great loss.




Anyways, that's another discussion. I'm just trying to say that not all music is bad, so don't be afraid to tap your foot.


Where do we draw lines in the sand? Gendre's? Labels? Specific artists? I kind of lump all mass media together, whether it be the idiot box, music, movies, pop culture. As you would point out, these are all industries that are run and controlled by insidious corruptors. I know they don't have my best interest in mind so I try to recognize it for what it is, regardless of the insignificant cost of missing out on the opportunity to tap my foot to it. I'll reserve that for when my kids are singing and dancing, or my friends are playing a self composed acoustic riff. ;)

Peace

[Sparky]

My point was, what difference does it make that the written Gospels were dated after Paul's letters?

That is a good question. To me, it makes a difference because we read in Acts that the other apostles were busy founding churches and preaching the gospel at the same time as Paul. Yet their writings simply don't exist in near the quantity that Paul's do and the gospels were not written by any of them at all. What it looks like to me is that Paul was teaching his own version of Christianity that was in conflict with the apostles. Eventually, Paul's teachings had to be brought into the church because they were popular and apparently successful. So there were several fabricated epistles added to the teachings of Paul that supported the views of the early catholic church.
...


I appreciate your search for the truth.

In reading through your commentary, you seem to be melding together a number of different issues: Christianity, the New Testament, Paul's letters, Christians and Christian behavior, church doctrine, and church hierarchy. I see the baby getting thrown out with the bath water.

For example, you say that Paul's letters have adulterated the New Testament, as there does not seem to be consistency in either theme or timeline. Yet you also treat the NT as a flawed document; as such, it's adulteration shouldn't matter, right?

You are at risk of discarding or rejecting truth because you feel the truth has been misrepresented, either inadvertently, or on purpose. If someone tells me you have blue eyes, and someone else tells me you have brown eyes, should I reject the idea that you have blue eyes?

There's no doubt that the "truth" is burdened with many layers of human misdirection. That doesn't make it untrue. If you look at all of your sources, e.g. the Gospels, Paul's letters, your church teaching, etc., what do they all have in common as a core truth? Basically,

1) There is one Creator God
2) He is part of a trinity, which also comprises a human, and a spirit
3) A God-human was put on earth to atone for the sin's of humanity, via His own death, such that those who accept the atonement will have life after this life on earth.

That's the core truth, common to all of your sources. Secondary truths are derived from interpretations of how to practice your belief of this core truth in terms of how you live your life. This where the grey area begins. But these are secondary truths. And there is some secondary truth that is also undisputed amongst all your sources:

1) You should help others when you are in a position to do so.
2) You should convey the core truth to others.

So, I've listed 5 truths. Can you identify any of your inconsistent sources which do not hold these as basic tenets of Christian faith, regardless of how unsuccessful you may observe self-proclaimed Christians to be acting them out? Everything else is window dressing. The source of your angst is over the window dressing. Don't let that interfere with the core truth, or your faith in it.

[bellevuebully]

My point was, what difference does it make that the written Gospels were dated after Paul's letters?

That is a good question. To me, it makes a difference because we read in Acts that the other apostles were busy founding churches and preaching the gospel at the same time as Paul. Yet their writings simply don't exist in near the quantity that Paul's do and the gospels were not written by any of them at all. What it looks like to me is that Paul was teaching his own version of Christianity that was in conflict with the apostles. Eventually, Paul's teachings had to be brought into the church because they were popular and apparently successful. So there were several fabricated epistles added to the teachings of Paul that supported the views of the early catholic church.
...


I appreciate your search for the truth.

In reading through your commentary, you seem to be melding together a number of different issues: Christianity, the New Testament, Paul's letters, Christians and Christian behavior, church doctrine, and church hierarchy. I see the baby getting thrown out with the bath water.

For example, you say that Paul's letters have adulterated the New Testament, as there does not seem to be consistency in either theme or timeline. Yet you also treat the NT as a flawed document; as such, it's adulteration shouldn't matter, right?

You are at risk of discarding or rejecting truth because you feel the truth has been misrepresented, either inadvertently, or on purpose. If someone tells me you have blue eyes, and someone else tells me you have brown eyes, should I reject the idea that you have blue eyes?

There's no doubt that the "truth" is burdened with many layers of human misdirection. That doesn't make it untrue. If you look at all of your sources, e.g. the Gospels, Paul's letters, your church teaching, etc., what do they all have in common as a core truth? Basically,

1) There is one Creator God
2) He is part of a trinity, which also comprises a human, and a spirit
3) A God-human was put on earth to atone for the sin's of humanity, via His own death, such that those who accept the atonement will have life after this life on earth.

That's the core truth, common to all of your sources. Secondary truths are derived from interpretations of how to practice your belief of this core truth in terms of how you live your life. This where the grey area begins. But these are secondary truths. And there is some secondary truth that is also undisputed amongst all your sources:

1) You should help others when you are in a position to do so.
2) You should convey the core truth to others.

So, I've listed 5 truths. Can you identify any of your inconsistent sources which do not hold these as basic tenets of Christian faith, regardless of how unsuccessful you may observe self-proclaimed Christians to be acting them out? Everything else is window dressing. The source of your angst is over the window dressing. Don't let that interfere with the core truth, or your faith in it.


Sparky, if you are ever coming to Ontario, I would love to meet you. In the years of being on the same forum, you have have showed incredible balance, wisdom and kindness in your posts whether they be of personal, spiritual, social or economic content. Without having ever met you, I can say you would be invited under my roof any day of the week.

[bellevuebully]

I think Satanic symbolism for them is merely branding. These are cold hearted ruthless people who do not waste time and energy on the here after and maybes. They are squarely concerned with the here and now: money, power and control. They view the bulk of the poeple as cattle, a "resource" to be exploited.


Tell that to the kids that have been sexually assaulted and sacrificed in the name of satan, by these sick bastards.

They aren't doing these rituals for the "here and now" profits and high rolling.



+1.

I'm not one to talk about there being a literal lake of fire or anything, but some of the things I've come across in this world leads me to think these folks are not sacrificing children because it's the other other white meat.


2+2=4

A+

[Awoke]

Bully, now would be a pertinent time to post that scripture you posted before, about not splitting hairs in regards to "This way or that way"






Anyways, that's another discussion. I'm just trying to say that not all music is bad, so don't be afraid to tap your foot.


Where do we draw lines in the sand? Gendre's? Labels? Specific artists? I kind of lump all mass media together, whether it be the idiot box, music, movies, pop culture. As you would point out, these are all industries that are run and controlled by insidious corruptors. I know they don't have my best interest in mind so I try to recognize it for what it is, regardless of the insignificant cost of missing out on the opportunity to tap my foot to it. I'll reserve that for when my kids are singing and dancing, or my friends are playing a self composed acoustic riff. ;)

Peace


I understand and respect what you're saying. Now is the time to don your spiritual armour and remain vigilant, because as you recognize, nothing goes untouched.

Even the Beatles had their lyrics written for them by the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations.
Not to mention the inclusion of Aleister Crowley on their album cover.

God Bless you, and of course your family!

[DMac]

I really enjoy reading these kinds of threads.

The folks around me, as the years go by, are more open and some actually try to encourage my discussions regarding politics, finance and the like. 1 problem I still have though, is getting into a discussion like this thread.

How do you folks discuss the corruption of the music industry? The VMA's which started the OP is an excellent example of something I was able to discuss with friends/family. I find getting into the music of the past and its satanic influence to be very taboo though. No one wants to slay that sacred cow.

[bellevuebully]

Bully, now would be a pertinent time to post that scripture you posted before, about not splitting hairs in regards to "This way or that way"






Anyways, that's another discussion. I'm just trying to say that not all music is bad, so don't be afraid to tap your foot.


Where do we draw lines in the sand? Gendre's? Labels? Specific artists? I kind of lump all mass media together, whether it be the idiot box, music, movies, pop culture. As you would point out, these are all industries that are run and controlled by insidious corruptors. I know they don't have my best interest in mind so I try to recognize it for what it is, regardless of the insignificant cost of missing out on the opportunity to tap my foot to it. I'll reserve that for when my kids are singing and dancing, or my friends are playing a self composed acoustic riff. ;)

Peace


I understand and respect what you're saying. Now is the time to don your spiritual armour and remain vigilant, because as you recognize, nothing goes untouched.

Even the Beatles had their lyrics written for them by the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations.
Not to mention the inclusion of Aleister Crowley on their album cover.

God Bless you, and of course your family!


Rom 14:1-23
1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.

And to you bro.

[bellevuebully]

I really enjoy reading these kinds of threads.

The folks around me, as the years go by, are more open and some actually try to encourage my discussions regarding politics, finance and the like. 1 problem I still have though, is getting into a discussion like this thread.

How do you folks discuss the corruption of the music industry? The VMA's which started the OP is an excellent example of something I was able to discuss with friends/family. I find getting into the music of the past and its satanic influence to be very taboo though. No one wants to slay that sacred cow.


Tell it like it is D, seasoned with a little humility and a lot of love and concern. Everything will fall into place.

[bellevuebully]

Btw, thanks to all for keeping it civil.

Even you Book. :taunt: |--0--|

[sirgonzo420]

I really enjoy reading these kinds of threads.

The folks around me, as the years go by, are more open and some actually try to encourage my discussions regarding politics, finance and the like. 1 problem I still have though, is getting into a discussion like this thread.

How do you folks discuss the corruption of the music industry? The VMA's which started the OP is an excellent example of something I was able to discuss with friends/family. I find getting into the music of the past and its satanic influence to be very taboo though. No one wants to slay that sacred cow.


So what if rock-and-roll has satanic roots? It's rock-and-roll! It ain't supposed to be gospel music!

To all the christians: if rock-and-roll is so terrible and satan so dangerous, then why doesn't God do anything about it?

Why did God approve evil in the first place?

[DMac]

I really enjoy reading these kinds of threads.

The folks around me, as the years go by, are more open and some actually try to encourage my discussions regarding politics, finance and the like. 1 problem I still have though, is getting into a discussion like this thread.

How do you folks discuss the corruption of the music industry? The VMA's which started the OP is an excellent example of something I was able to discuss with friends/family. I find getting into the music of the past and its satanic influence to be very taboo though. No one wants to slay that sacred cow.


So what if rock-and-roll has satanic roots? It's rock-and-roll! It ain't supposed to be gospel music!

To all the christians: if rock-and-roll is so terrible and satan so dangerous, then why doesn't God do anything about it?

Why did God approve evil in the first place?




Please don't derail Gonzo.

[bellevuebully]

I really enjoy reading these kinds of threads.

The folks around me, as the years go by, are more open and some actually try to encourage my discussions regarding politics, finance and the like. 1 problem I still have though, is getting into a discussion like this thread.

How do you folks discuss the corruption of the music industry? The VMA's which started the OP is an excellent example of something I was able to discuss with friends/family. I find getting into the music of the past and its satanic influence to be very taboo though. No one wants to slay that sacred cow.


So what if rock-and-roll has satanic roots? It's rock-and-roll! It ain't supposed to be gospel music!

To all the christians: if rock-and-roll is so terrible and satan so dangerous, then why doesn't God do anything about it?

Why did God approve evil in the first place?




It's ironic Gonz......non believers criticize God for their perception that He wants to control us and lord over us, and also critizice Him for giving us free will. Maybe you see it, maybe you don't.

[sirgonzo420]

I really enjoy reading these kinds of threads.

The folks around me, as the years go by, are more open and some actually try to encourage my discussions regarding politics, finance and the like. 1 problem I still have though, is getting into a discussion like this thread.

How do you folks discuss the corruption of the music industry? The VMA's which started the OP is an excellent example of something I was able to discuss with friends/family. I find getting into the music of the past and its satanic influence to be very taboo though. No one wants to slay that sacred cow.


So what if rock-and-roll has satanic roots? It's rock-and-roll! It ain't supposed to be gospel music!

To all the christians: if rock-and-roll is so terrible and satan so dangerous, then why doesn't God do anything about it?

Why did God approve evil in the first place?




Please don't derail Gonzo.


lol


that's hardly derailing. This thread is about music and occultic/satanic influences right?

[DMac]

I really enjoy reading these kinds of threads.

The folks around me, as the years go by, are more open and some actually try to encourage my discussions regarding politics, finance and the like. 1 problem I still have though, is getting into a discussion like this thread.

How do you folks discuss the corruption of the music industry? The VMA's which started the OP is an excellent example of something I was able to discuss with friends/family. I find getting into the music of the past and its satanic influence to be very taboo though. No one wants to slay that sacred cow.


So what if rock-and-roll has satanic roots? It's rock-and-roll! It ain't supposed to be gospel music!

To all the christians: if rock-and-roll is so terrible and satan so dangerous, then why doesn't God do anything about it?

Why did God approve evil in the first place?




Please don't derail Gonzo.


lol


that's hardly derailing. This thread is about music and occultic/satanic influences right?


Right. Your question deserves its own thread.

"Why did God approve evil in the first place?"

[sirgonzo420]

I really enjoy reading these kinds of threads.

The folks around me, as the years go by, are more open and some actually try to encourage my discussions regarding politics, finance and the like. 1 problem I still have though, is getting into a discussion like this thread.

How do you folks discuss the corruption of the music industry? The VMA's which started the OP is an excellent example of something I was able to discuss with friends/family. I find getting into the music of the past and its satanic influence to be very taboo though. No one wants to slay that sacred cow.


So what if rock-and-roll has satanic roots? It's rock-and-roll! It ain't supposed to be gospel music!

To all the christians: if rock-and-roll is so terrible and satan so dangerous, then why doesn't God do anything about it?

Why did God approve evil in the first place?




It's ironic Gonz......non believers criticize God for their perception that He wants to control us and lord over us, and also critizice Him for giving us free will. Maybe you see it, maybe you don't.


How can we have TRUE free will if God knows all our choices before we make them?

At best, we have the illusion of free will. It's kinda like how Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden would've looked like adults on the first day they were made. Their physical age was an illusion. So is our notion of "free will", if God is omniscient.

A God that knows how many hairs will be on your head generations before you are born cannot be reconciled with the notion of TRUE FREE WILL for man. We can't "surprise" God - we have no true "free will".

and DMac, I will concede that THIS post is a tad derailing... but this is a discussion forum and this is still on topic, IMO.

[bellevuebully]

How can we have TRUE free will if God knows all our choices before we make them?

At best, we have the illusion of free will. It's kinda like how Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden would've looked like adults on the first day they were made. Their physical age was an illusion. So is our notion of "free will", if God is omniscient.

A God that knows how many hairs will be on your head generations before you are born cannot be reconciled with the notion of TRUE FREE WILL for man. We can't "surprise" God - we have no true "free will".

and DMac, I will concede that THIS post is a tad derailing... but this is a discussion forum and this is still on topic, IMO.


You seem to have it all figured out so what are you asking for?

[sirgonzo420]

How can we have TRUE free will if God knows all our choices before we make them?

At best, we have the illusion of free will. It's kinda like how Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden would've looked like adults on the first day they were made. Their physical age was an illusion. So is our notion of "free will", if God is omniscient.

A God that knows how many hairs will be on your head generations before you are born cannot be reconciled with the notion of TRUE FREE WILL for man. We can't "surprise" God - we have no true "free will".

and DMac, I will concede that THIS post is a tad derailing... but this is a discussion forum and this is still on topic, IMO.


You seem to have it all figured out so what are you asking for?


I detect some animosity.

I seriously want to know how you can reconcile:

A) Omniscient God

with

B) TRUE FREE WILL


I really do. It's been stumping me since I was a small child.

[bellevuebully]

How can we have TRUE free will if God knows all our choices before we make them?

At best, we have the illusion of free will. It's kinda like how Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden would've looked like adults on the first day they were made. Their physical age was an illusion. So is our notion of "free will", if God is omniscient.

A God that knows how many hairs will be on your head generations before you are born cannot be reconciled with the notion of TRUE FREE WILL for man. We can't "surprise" God - we have no true "free will".

and DMac, I will concede that THIS post is a tad derailing... but this is a discussion forum and this is still on topic, IMO.


You seem to have it all figured out so what are you asking for?


I detect some animosity.

I seriously want to know how you can reconcile:

A) Omniscient God

with

B) TRUE FREE WILL


I really do. It's been stumping me since I was a small child.


No animosity. You trolled me on the other thread, and I try not to repeat mistakes. I'll try to have a look at your new threads later.

[wrs]

In reading through your commentary, you seem to be melding together a number of different issues: Christianity, the New Testament, Paul's letters, Christians and Christian behavior, church doctrine, and church hierarchy. I see the baby getting thrown out with the bath water.

I think they are all separate topics, it is you that have melded them together. There is no baby in the bathwater as far as I can tell.


For example, you say that Paul's letters have adulterated the New Testament, as there does not seem to be consistency in either theme or timeline.

That isn't what I said. Post #78 is what you quoted from so go back and read it again.


what do they all have in common as a core truth? Basically,

1) There is one Creator God
2) He is part of a trinity, which also comprises a human, and a spirit
3) A God-human was put on earth to atone for the sin's of humanity, via His own death, such that those who accept the atonement will have life after this life on earth.

That's the core truth, common to all of your sources.

You claim these are truths and I claim they are beliefs without basis. First of all the gospels have nothing to say about the Trinity. That is what the council of Nicea established, the hypostasis of the Trinity. Jesus never expressly talked about the trinity. He talked about a comforter, he talked about a Father and he talked about he and the Father being one. He never said he was one with the comforter. Furthermore, Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sins, so how could he be here to atone for the sins of humanity? That is another belief that was pinned down by the Council of Nicea. You are proving my point, you simply believe what you were told to believe and then erroneously offer as corroboration, something that in fact contradicts your belief or at the very least can be read in a way so as to contradict your belief.


And there is some secondary truth that is also undisputed amongst all your sources:

1) You should help others when you are in a position to do so.
2) You should convey the core truth to others.

These points are agreed upon by the majority of humanity irrespective of what religion you are talking about or whether one believes in God or not. I don't see how they add a thing to your argument.

Jesus said the son of Man has the power to forgive sins. I agree with him, I believe that like the palsied man in Mark 2, I was (at least in part) healed of cancer by forgiving my own sins. That is the power of forgiveness, that we recognize our own errors and forgive ourselves. It is our own lack of forgiveness of ourselves that hinders us. That to me is what Jesus taught. You can forgive yourself or not. The other stuff I believe is the window dressing that was added in order to create a religion.

[sirgonzo420]

Why did God set Man up to fail in the first place?

Secondly, how in the world does a god-man dying on a cross do anything to remove sin from anyone else?

What are the mechanics of that?

[PatColo]

There's no doubt that the "truth" is burdened with many layers of human misdirection. That doesn't make it untrue. If you look at all of your sources, e.g. the Gospels, Paul's letters, your church teaching, etc., what do they all have in common as a core truth? Basically,

1) There is one Creator God
2) He is part of a trinity, which also comprises a human, and a spirit
3) A God-human was put on earth to atone for the sin's of humanity, via His own death, such that those who accept the atonement will have life after this life on earth.

That's the core truth, common to all of your sources



A couple tweeks, and you have the four points of the "Redeemer Complex" (http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/gnosticism-discussion-on-veritas-radio/msg155456/#msg155456) common to the three Abrahamic monotheisms: Chistianity, Dajoozism, and of course Scary Moozlemistism,





1. The world is created by an off-planet Father-God, like an artifact, the way a potter creates a pot.

2. The off-planet Father-God designates a chosen people, to fulfill his will.

3. The off-planet Father-God sends a Messiah, or emissary, to his chosen people, to help them fulfill his plan.

4. Because none of this works out, and humanity doesn't go along with the plan, the off-planet Father-God at the end of time, brings doomsday upon the world, and he inflicts an apocalypse of retribution, taking the chosen ones to heaven, and condemning those who did not follow his orders, to hell.

This is the belief system, this is the core belief system of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. It's packaged in different ways in those three religions, but it is the core belief system.

[keehah]

I offer four points of the "Energize Complex"

1. Conserve and create (transform, harmonics) life and energy.

2. Entropy is a sin.

3. Excess Entropy is evil.

4. If you over energize or disrupt something or someone in a bad way it may kill you.

[Awoke]

Gonzo, I certainly can't claim to have all the answers, but I want to contribute.

God is a mystery, and beyond our deepest fathoming, much like the conspiracy. (Meaning that neither are created or concieved by human minds: They are beyond our comprehension in their totality, because these things are deity-concieved)

This is were the word "faith" comes in.




Why did God set Man up to fail in the first place?



He didn't set us up to fail, he created us out of love and blessed us with the option to either
A) Choose to love him and follow his covenant
B) Choose to reject him

What good is it to the Father, to create us and have us follow like lemmings? Without giving us our own consciousness, morality and freedom, we would be more like remote controlled cars in comparison to a pet dog that loves it's master.

But like a dog that chooses disobedience, there are repercussions.
If you piddle on the rug or chew up a slipper you face repercussions, and if you bite the hand that feeds too often, the repercussions may be severe.

(I am not usig the dog analogy for any other reason than that it came to mind as the easiest example)





Secondly, how in the world does a god-man dying on a cross do anything to remove sin from anyone else?

What are the mechanics of that?


The mechanics are not complicated. According to the Old Testament, God made a deal with the jews, and laid out some ground rules. There were certain processes they were to follow in detail, and they did not.
Not only did they turn their back on the processes (Such as sacrifice of animals for atonement of sin), but they pledged alligiance to Ba'al and other idols. The Father has a measure of patience, and so he spoke to them again and again, as loving parent would to a rebelious teenager.
Time and time again, the children broke the rules, discarded loyalty and outright betrayed our Creator.

So then it came to a point where the Father was so distraught with the behaviour of these children that he felt they had surpassed any chance of reconciliation through the means which they had agreed on, namely animal sacrifice and a repentant heart.

In other words, they had gone so far that the "Old" apology would not suffice.

The Old Testament prophets told them (http://petejepson.tripod.com/birthandlineage.htm) that they would be given a new opportunity to reconcile with the Lord.

When Christ came and taught the Word of God, and then was crucified, he was the sacrificial Lamb.
He is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices.

By his death, you are not required to kill 4 oxen, 6 hens and 14 rabbits to atone. (just shooting from the hip here: I don't know the animals required) The Lord made himself flesh and came here and lived and suffered as the rest, and allowed himself to be killed and offered up to himself in lieu of the (no longer sufficient) animal sacrifices.


Now in regards to your question about "Free Will" Vs. "OmniscIent God", that is the stumper.
I believe that God is all powerful and knows all, as you assert. Therefore the issue is, how can we truely have free will if God knows all our paths before we take them?

So then I refer you to two things I have posted about.
Faith.
Loyalty.

I believe he wants us to choose him.
I believe he knows what we are going to choose before we ever make the choice.
I believe that he knows who will choose him, and I believe that he knows who will not choose him.
I believe that in the end, the Father knows who will join him and who will not, as written in scriptures.

I believe the point is the journey of testing our mettle, so that when we join him, we know that we did it according to our own free will, and will be happy to celebrate that fact. This way we can celebrate our choice together in the presence of the Lord.

I know those are not the answers you're looking for, but none of us can truely understand Gods machinations.

I don't know if this post will help you understand anything any better, but it might provoke you to reflect, and maybe even say a prayer to God to let him show himself to you in your life. (That would be good enough for me)

But I can say with certainty, that when I struggled through the (rich) history of my life, and finally asked God to come into my life, he started showing works right away. He showed me that he heard me and started working in my life immediately.

In fact, he started making things happen in my life that were so aggressive (in a good way) and pertinent that there was no arguing with the fact that God is real. Everything he did was extremely specific to my life and situations, and beyond the reach of coincidence or "manifest destiny" (Which is the new-age-mysticism bullshit they are trying to promote with this luciferian "The secret" crap)

[goldleaf]

Awoke, You'd make an excellent traditional Catholic. ;)

[MAGNES]

You claim these are truths and I claim they are beliefs without basis. First of all the gospels have nothing to say about the Trinity. That is what the council of Nicea established, the hypostasis of the Trinity. Jesus never expressly talked about the trinity. He talked about a comforter, he talked about a Father and he talked about he and the Father being one. He never said he was one with the comforter. Furthermore, Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sins, so how could he be here to atone for the sins of humanity? That is another belief that was pinned down by the Council of Nicea. You are proving my point, you simply believe what you were told to believe and then erroneously offer as corroboration, something that in fact contradicts your belief or at the very least can be read in a way so as to contradict your belief.


The Historical Jesus is real, the people followed him and decided to elevate him, Christianity
came from the ground up, not the other way around. Constantine wanted to stop the bickering,
the splitting of hairs, people turned the Historical Jesus to superhuman.

Even from the days of Socrates, correcting your brother and yourself, improving yourself,
people are redeemable, Socrates was going to his death and he wanted all around to learn
from this, Plato records this, no other two people had more influence on Christian thought
and Western philosophy than Plato and Socrates. Socrates is a lot like Jesus. Jesus Christ
and Christianity was born in the Hellenistic Kingdoms taken over by the Romans, totally
Greek dominated. Not Judeo but Hellenic Ruled.

@ Awoke and sacrifices, why Jesus Christ, a lot is allegory and metaphor. Why Jesus ?

This has to do with the Occult today.

Jewish Ritual Murder is real to this day, sacrifices, the Occult at top may still do this.

Jesus Christ wanted to stop sacrifices, going to the temple, was it about money or sacrifices ?
There is a lot online that sacrifices had a lot to do with hit. Here is the problem, all pagans
sacrificed, the Greeks sacrificed, they were just thanking the Gods for their food and giving
offerings, they would eat the animals, but maybe burn some. So why does Jesus target
the Jews ? Because they were buying children at the temple for sacrifice, " DOVES " ,
A METAPHOR FOR THE INNOCENT, CHILDREN.

Jews sacrificed people, their own as well in ancient times, when did they stop ?
That is the question. The Romans and Greeks recorded them as sacrificing humans.
" modern historians " disputed these accounts but there are archeological finds
to prove this, I can give a modern reference, just ask, have to dig. The Jews
were not the only ones sacrificing humans, many Indo European tribes did this
too, Illyrians, Scythians, Vikings, other Europeans, Greeks and Romans did not
do this, Agamemnon does the last recorded sacrifice, and his wife murders him
and this is celebrated, he destroys his army, Apollo devastates them with Plague,
as punishment for doing injustice, he is no hero but baffoon and evil.

There was a lot of brutality in the ancient world, JESUS = JUSTICE ,
PLATO/SOCRATES = JUSTICE , one word sums it up, Justice, The Western World.
We Europeans are alone on this main issue that drives our people, this belief.

The Occult hates Constantine, he did great things, at times he was brutal.

Constantine stopped the murder of Christians , the persecution.

Constantine stopped Gladiatorial games that murdered people for sport.

Constantine stopped Bishops from arguing and dividing the Republic.

Constantine risked losing it all, the support of the Military, Merchants, Oligarchy, Elite.
They were all pagans. He joined the people.

What was happening in the world at that time ?

CHRISTIAN CHURCH CARVINGS

http://saints.sqpn.com/saints0b.jpg

[MAGNES]

jewish ritual murder
http://www.google.com/search?q=jewish+ritual+murder&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

[MAGNES]

BANNED BOOK
Passovers of Blood: The Jews of Europe and Ritual Murders
http://www.bloodpassover.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Toaff

The author is a modern Jewish historian from Italy,
his father is influential Jewish person too, forgot,
either a Rabbi or Prof or both.

The print edition was destroyed by Jews.

Also, there are many authors documenting Jewish Ritual Murder
going back centuries, eye witness accounts from country to
country, victims, trials, poor uneducated people that can't read
and never met saying the same things at trial.

[Awoke]

Awoke, You'd make an excellent traditional Catholic. ;)


I don't know what to call myself, other than Christian. I presently attend Catholic Church, but that is only because I recognize the Catholic/Protestant schizm as the influence of the destructive actions of the 5th column of jewry.

However my search for the most "accurate" Church is not yet done. I kalso know the Catholic Church is rife with Babylonian rituals. Nothing goes untouched by the deceiver.
(Meaning the Church that is run the way the Father, Son and Holy Spirit intended it to be)





The Historical Jesus is real, the people followed him and decided to elevate him, Christianity
came from the ground up, not the other way around.



I strongly disagree, and the fact that Jesus is God himself made flesh is the entire article of faith that Christians live by.
I'm Christian.
You're not.

We don't have to agree, but I certainly disagree with the above statement.




@ Awoke and sacrifices, why Jesus Christ, a lot is allegory and metaphor. Why Jesus ?



Like I said:




So then it came to a point where the Father was so distraught with the behaviour of these children that he felt they had surpassed any chance of reconciliation through the means which they had agreed on, namely animal sacrifice and a repentant heart.

In other words, they had gone so far that the "Old" apology would not suffice.

The Old Testament prophets told them (http://petejepson.tripod.com/birthandlineage.htm) that they would be given a new opportunity to reconcile with the Lord.

When Christ came and taught the Word of God, and then was crucified, he was the sacrificial Lamb.
He is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices.

By his death, you are not required to kill 4 oxen, 6 hens and 14 rabbits to atone. (just shooting from the hip here: I don't know the animals required) The Lord made himself flesh and came here and lived and suffered as the rest, and allowed himself to be killed and offered up to himself in lieu of the (no longer sufficient) animal sacrifices.

[MAGNES]

The Historical Jesus is real, the people followed him and decided to elevate him, Christianity
came from the ground up, not the other way around.



I strongly disagree, and the fact that Jesus is God himself made flesh is the entire article of faith that Christians live by.
I'm Christian.
You're not.

We don't have to agree, but I certainly disagree with the above statement.



Christianity is Western History and I am giving this account as history.
I don't claim to have all the answers, above I have a lot of questions myself.
Christianity was not created in a vacuum. Jesus was historical figure and
people wrote about this in NT. These reminders to people are pro Christian,
as you call me not Christian, those that hate the Christians peak at my
writing which is based on historical readings and I try not to overreach.
Christianity is more than just Jesus, there are no 2 greater influences on
Christianity, thought and philosophy than Plato and Socrates, without which
there may not be any Christianity. This is history, not my opinion.
Hellenistic Kingdoms, Hellenic Philosophy, Neo Platonists. Much of the beliefs
and the teachings are compatible, without the Greeks there would be
no Christianity as we know it. Those pagan bastards. LOL This post is for the benefit of
everyone Awoke, I am not overreaching. Philosophy students learn all this.
That ain't my area though. There are people here who have studied this
as major, they don't get involved in these discussions. They are welcome
to come and take me apart. Remember Awoke who outed Goldie putting
her on the spot, corrupting Plato and Constantine is sport for them for a reason.

I am not religious but recognize Jesus as the most important historical figure ever.

We are fighting the same fight, I want people here to understand the parallels and
to learn about the Western World.

Recently, we covered the Irish, are you Irish Awoke ?

Don't worry about me Awoke, Ximmy says I ain't going to hell.

And Awoke, how is what I am saying not compatible with Jesus being God ?
Are you saying there was no Jesus that walked the earth and had followers,
he had to earn their trust and be a leader, whether just man or Son of God and God.
If that was the case God can just make us believe and we don't need all this
conflict, beliefs and learning. Why would God want people to believe just on faith.
Because, what is to stop an impersonator deceiving people. God gave us the
ability to reason and think and fight.

[Awoke]

The Historical Jesus is real, the people followed him and decided to elevate him, Christianity
came from the ground up, not the other way around.



I strongly disagree, and the fact that Jesus is God himself made flesh is the entire article of faith that Christians live by.
I'm Christian.
You're not.

We don't have to agree, but I certainly disagree with the above statement.




...go on...

?

[sirgonzo420]

Awoke, thanks for the post. I appreciate the time you put into it. It is pretty much what I was taught growing up.

Ever since I was a child it just never added up to me.

Seems overly theatrical.



God creates Man.

Man makes a mistake.

God condemns Man and all his heirs to disease, destruction, death and hell.

Jesus dying on the cross somehow makes up for Man's sinful nature, as long as he believes "by grace, through faith".

People who never had the opportunity to hear the gospels are condemned to hell for their ignorance.


YHWH is a jealous, vengeful god by his own account. Why does that have to be the case? It's all God's game.


I reckon we'll just have to disagree on this.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Very serious question for forum members, specifically 'non-spiritual' members, who completely acknowlege the masonic control mechanism which dominate society. I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, so let's try to keep this civil. I'm just curious how when you see this type of material you don't make the connection to Luciferianism.

Who is it that you think the masons are worshipping? Or do you think that they are worshipping satan, but satan doesn't exist anyway so it's all meaningless, in as far as the spiritual context goes? What do you make of the myriad of testimonies from those within the music industry regarding having encounters/contracts with Satan?

To me, it is quite clear they are in an all out war against Christ, and it vividly cements the reality of a spiritual battle.






It should be obvious to anyone with a brain, at least one or more of these is true:

The music industry:

1) honestly believes they are worshipping Satan
2) are actually worshipping Satan
3) are sucking up to someone who honestly believes or is actually worshipping Satan


You're right, it really should be obvious. Too many parallels. Too many similarities. Too much out and out admission.

[bellevuebully]

Gonzo, I certainly can't claim to have all the answers, but I want to contribute.



That is a very good response Awoke. Sometimes, there is only so much one can say to the extremely deep questions like the one Gonzo posed.

Not everything can be explained to the last dotted i and crossed t, whether it be these deep things, or everyday life. Everyone exercises faith in something, even if it is a self-moulded philosophy.

[bellevuebully]

Awoke, thanks for the post.


That post was a gracious response Gonz. Agreeing to disagree is sometimes all we can do. If either side could prove anything, the debate would be over and we could concentrate on usary. ;D

[bellevuebully]

Very serious question for forum members, specifically 'non-spiritual' members, who completely acknowlege the masonic control mechanism which dominate society. I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, so let's try to keep this civil. I'm just curious how when you see this type of material you don't make the connection to Luciferianism.

Who is it that you think the masons are worshipping? Or do you think that they are worshipping satan, but satan doesn't exist anyway so it's all meaningless, in as far as the spiritual context goes? What do you make of the myriad of testimonies from those within the music industry regarding having encounters/contracts with Satan?

To me, it is quite clear they are in an all out war against Christ, and it vividly cements the reality of a spiritual battle.






It should be obvious to anyone with a brain, at least one or more of these is true:

The music industry:

1) honestly believes they are worshipping Satan
2) are actually worshipping Satan
3) are sucking up to someone who honestly believes or is actually worshipping Satan


You're right, it really should be obvious. Too many parallels. Too many similarities. Too much out and out admission.



Incredible amount of similarities.

Did you read the linked articles on Laurel Canyon? I would really encourage you to.....it's a whopper of an eye opener and incredible example of the scope of how deep rabbit holes can go. I am working my way through it now. Some stuff I had read before, but this account goes into much deeper detail. Coincidence beyond the orchestration of the flesh, imo.

[Sparky]

Sparky, if you are ever coming to Ontario, I would love to meet you. In the years of being on the same forum, you have have showed incredible balance, wisdom and kindness in your posts whether they be of personal, spiritual, social or economic content. Without having ever met you, I can say you would be invited under my roof any day of the week.


Thank you for such thoughtful praise, BB. I really appreciate it.

If this winter keeps up as it has here, I may take you up on your offer and flee to Canada to escape the snow and cold!

[Sparky]

In reading through your commentary, you seem to be melding together a number of different issues: Christianity, the New Testament, Paul's letters, Christians and Christian behavior, church doctrine, and church hierarchy. I see the baby getting thrown out with the bath water.

I think they are all separate topics, it is you that have melded them together. There is no baby in the bathwater as far as I can tell.


For example, you say that Paul's letters have adulterated the New Testament, as there does not seem to be consistency in either theme or timeline.

That isn't what I said. Post #78 is what you quoted from so go back and read it again.


what do they all have in common as a core truth? Basically,

1) There is one Creator God
2) He is part of a trinity, which also comprises a human, and a spirit
3) A God-human was put on earth to atone for the sin's of humanity, via His own death, such that those who accept the atonement will have life after this life on earth.

That's the core truth, common to all of your sources.

You claim these are truths and I claim they are beliefs without basis. First of all the gospels have nothing to say about the Trinity. That is what the council of Nicea established, the hypostasis of the Trinity. Jesus never expressly talked about the trinity. He talked about a comforter, he talked about a Father and he talked about he and the Father being one. He never said he was one with the comforter. Furthermore, Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sins, so how could he be here to atone for the sins of humanity? That is another belief that was pinned down by the Council of Nicea. You are proving my point, you simply believe what you were told to believe and then erroneously offer as corroboration, something that in fact contradicts your belief or at the very least can be read in a way so as to contradict your belief.


And there is some secondary truth that is also undisputed amongst all your sources:

1) You should help others when you are in a position to do so.
2) You should convey the core truth to others.

These points are agreed upon by the majority of humanity irrespective of what religion you are talking about or whether one believes in God or not. I don't see how they add a thing to your argument.

Jesus said the son of Man has the power to forgive sins. I agree with him, I believe that like the palsied man in Mark 2, I was (at least in part) healed of cancer by forgiving my own sins. That is the power of forgiveness, that we recognize our own errors and forgive ourselves. It is our own lack of forgiveness of ourselves that hinders us. That to me is what Jesus taught. You can forgive yourself or not. The other stuff I believe is the window dressing that was added in order to create a religion.


I was simply refuting your claim that the various sources of teaching are inconsistent. My point is that they are all consistent with the core of the Christian faith, as I listed. You may reject them as truth, but you cannot show me where any of the various source teachings reject them as truth. That was my point.

The Gospels don't use the word "trinity". But you can't read John's Gospel without running into his theme of God, His Son, and the Spirit all being one entity. That's the trinity. He just doesn't use that term. You can blame the church for introducing that term if you want to. I agree with you, there's a lot of humanism that has clouded the message. I try not to let that degrade the message.

People can't choose to pick apart all the words and legalism they want, but there is no escaping the theme. Either you accept the theme or you don't.

Take your example: How could Jesus atone for the sins of humanity, AND give the power of forgiveness to the apostles? If you want to get caught up in a battle of logic, I could argue that the source of the power of forgiveness given to the apostles is still Jesus. But these logic arguments are futile, which is why I always fall back on theme. I would much rather have a thematic discussion with you than one based on semantics.

It's good that you have passionately sought answers. I hope your heart is not hardened.

[Nitz]

Why would they go to such lengths? Why would they waste their time on such symbolic gestures?



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mpBGa4P5jUo/SMbgr2V6SwI/AAAAAAAABdA/pX19QrBeYDs/s400/timemachine2.jpg

Goyim have been easily manipulated by Talmudic symbols since forever.


Hey Book, do you have any suggested reading on Talmud writings/interpretations? WHat about a place to get the actual text?

[silver solution]

I can say "Thanks" for at least attempting to fix the quotes.
Your welcome. I don't get this site and don't post all that often.

[Book]

Hey Book, do you have any suggested reading on Talmud writings/interpretations? What about a place to get the actual text?



http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html

Download the entire website for free here: http://www.come-and-hear.com/download.html

|--0--|

[wrs]

I was simply refuting your claim that the various sources of teaching are inconsistent.

You didn't, you actually made a point that I avoided and that is the gnostic nature of the gospel of John as compared to the Synoptic gospels. It is so different than the other three and in contradiction to them that it along with Revelation were almost not included in the Canon. The gospel of John is very Platonic and gnostic, the synoptic gospels are not. You don't find the concepts espoused by the gospel of John even alluded to in the synoptic gospels. It's pretty much two different types of Christianity.

The other point I am trying to make is that Christianity isn't an original religion, it's just some existing ideas rehashed in a different format. As such, it has no basis in making itself out to be the only way to God, assuming there is a God and there is some way to get to God.

[Awoke]

I was simply refuting your claim that the various sources of teaching are inconsistent.

You didn't, you actually made a point that I avoided and that is the gnostic nature of the gospel of John as compared to the Synoptic gospels. It is so different than the other three and in contradiction to them that it along with Revelation were almost not included in the Canon. The gospel of John is very Platonic and gnostic, the synoptic gospels are not. You don't find the concepts espoused by the gospel of John even alluded to in the synoptic gospels. It's pretty much two different types of Christianity.

The other point I am trying to make is that Christianity isn't an original religion, it's just some existing ideas rehashed in a different format. As such, it has no basis in making itself out to be the only way to God, assuming there is a God and there is some way to get to God.




So WRS, are you also Silver Solution?

You both don't know how to properly use the quote function, and you both have posted quotes stated by somebody else and attributed it to me.

[wrs]

So WRS, are you also Silver Solution?

You both don't know how to properly use the quote function, and you both have posted quotes stated by somebody else and attributed it to me.

I use the quote function the way I use it, but not incorrectly. I mistakenly posted your handle in the meta text instead of Sparky, is it that bothersome? You sure have a thin skin if that bothers you. It's an easy mistake to make when you do the quoting manually. I fixed it for you, feel better now?

[Awoke]

Oh, did I hit a sore spot?

;)

[wrs]

Oh, did I hit a sore spot?

No, but I have been writing in markup languages since you were in grade school I suspect. It's an easy mistake to make and I corrected it. I wrote my masters thesis using LaTEX so it's a tough habit to break.

[Nitz]

Hey Book, do you have any suggested reading on Talmud writings/interpretations? What about a place to get the actual text?



http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html

Download the entire website for free here: http://www.come-and-hear.com/download.html

|--0--|


Thanks Book, do you have any idea where to get physical version? I would like to have it in my possesion for referencing...or do I have to get to the top floor of the Rothschild Library in Israel to view that?

[Book]

Hey Book, do you have any suggested reading on Talmud writings/interpretations? What about a place to get the actual text?



http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html

Download the entire website for free here: http://www.come-and-hear.com/download.html

|--0--|


Thanks Book, do you have any idea where to get physical version? I would like to have it in my possession for referencing...or do I have to get to the top floor of the Rothschild Library in Israel to view that?


Just burn it onto a CD as per the instructions: http://www.come-and-hear.com/download.html

:)

[Serpo]

Lady gag her.......

http://indianinthemachine.wordpress.com/2010/02/27/lady-gaga-satanic-worship-mindcontrol-and-manipulation-a-collection-of-revealing-photographs/

[Awoke]

Hey Book, do you have any suggested reading on Talmud writings/interpretations? What about a place to get the actual text?



http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html

Download the entire website for free here: http://www.come-and-hear.com/download.html

|--0--|


Thanks Book, do you have any idea where to get physical version? I would like to have it in my possesion for referencing...or do I have to get to the top floor of the Rothschild Library in Israel to view that?


The thing is, Nitz, there is a Goyim version of the tamuld, and there is a rabbid zionist version of the talmud, which you will not be able to get your hands on. That version is held by rabbis and other upper-echelon zionist satanists, and not available from amazon.com or wherever.

You can order studies on it.
I recommend reading "The talmud unmasked: Secret rabbinical teaching concerning Christians". The info is concise and compiled so you don't have to go through their entire book of satan gibberish.

[Awoke]

The Historical Jesus is real, the people followed him and decided to elevate him, Christianity
came from the ground up, not the other way around.



I strongly disagree, and the fact that Jesus is God himself made flesh is the entire article of faith that Christians live by.
I'm Christian.
You're not.

We don't have to agree, but I certainly disagree with the above statement.



Christianity is Western History and I am giving this account as history.
I don't claim to have all the answers, above I have a lot of questions myself.
Christianity was not created in a vacuum. Jesus was historical figure and
people wrote about this in NT. These reminders to people are pro Christian,
as you call me not Christian, those that hate the Christians peak at my
writing which is based on historical readings and I try not to overreach.
Christianity is more than just Jesus, there are no 2 greater influences on
Christianity, thought and philosophy than Plato and Socrates, without which
there may not be any Christianity. This is history, not my opinion.
Hellenistic Kingdoms, Hellenic Philosophy, Neo Platonists. Much of the beliefs
and the teachings are compatible, without the Greeks there would be
no Christianity as we know it. Those pagan bastards. LOL This post is for the benefit of
everyone Awoke, I am not overreaching. Philosophy students learn all this.
That ain't my area though. There are people here who have studied this
as major, they don't get involved in these discussions. They are welcome
to come and take me apart. Remember Awoke who outed Goldie putting
her on the spot, corrupting Plato and Constantine is sport for them for a reason.

I am not religious but recognize Jesus as the most important historical figure ever.

We are fighting the same fight, I want people here to understand the parallels and
to learn about the Western World.

Recently, we covered the Irish, are you Irish Awoke ?

Don't worry about me Awoke, Ximmy says I ain't going to hell.

And Awoke, how is what I am saying not compatible with Jesus being God ?
Are you saying there was no Jesus that walked the earth and had followers,
he had to earn their trust and be a leader, whether just man or Son of God and God.
If that was the case God can just make us believe and we don't need all this
conflict, beliefs and learning. Why would God want people to believe just on faith.
Because, what is to stop an impersonator deceiving people. God gave us the
ability to reason and think and fight.


Magnes, you andI are fighting this battle on the same side, no doubt.

But to be clear on my stance, Christianity would be Christianity without Plato and Socrates.

Put simply: Christ came, Christ died, Christ rose. Plato and Socrates had nothing to do with that.

[sirgonzo420]

I just bought, but have not yet read entirely Elizabeth Dilling's book "The Plot Against Christianity" formerly known as "The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today".

Here it is from amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Plot-Against-Christianity-Elizabeth-Dilling/dp/0939482452

Here it is online for free at:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/index.html

[PatColo]

Rev. Ted Pike:

11 Oct 10 - Talmud Encourages Jews to Deceive (http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/talmudencouragesjewstodeceive.htm)

28 Sep 10 - Pedophilia: The Talmud's Dirty Secret (http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/pedophiliasecret.html)

1 Sep 10 - The Talmud: Scalpel That Bleeds the Mideast (http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/talmudscalpelthatbleeds.htm)

[RJB]

I agree with you, Awoke. Christianity is based on Christ dying for our sins, but I see three nations that God used to spread the word. The Hebrews, Greeks, and Romans/Byzantines. The Hebrew's Old Testament had prophesies of the Messiah.

But the Greek philosophers brought logic and the love of learning and justice to the world, but it wasn't just the philosophers in classrooms. I see Alexander The Greek equally respnible as Plato and Socrates. Alexander The Great paved the infrastructure for it's spread. Alexander was very civil when compared to most conquerers especially in antiquity. He was the first to learn from those he ruled. The Greeks had the hebrew texts tranlated to Greek and distributed it to the world before Jesus was born. When Jesus was born, scholars across the known world knew of the hebrew messiah. It's one of the reasons why the wise men probably knew. It's also why the disciples were able to spread the word so easily not only because of the prevalance of Greek philosophy but because of the translated hebrew texts.

It's one of the reasons they try so hard to pervert the history of the Greeks by calling them drunks, homosexuals, etc. It would be as if 2000 years from now, people summed up the 200 years of American culture by looking at San Francisco in 2010 instead of looking at Thomas Jefferson et. al. Most of the libel of Alexander the Great was spread by the politicians back home. The men who marched with him had a different tale.

[RJB]

I know Maiden wouldn't win any Christian band awards but I think they got this one right. Most of rock focuses on the Greek debauchary of Dionysus, forgetting that it was sober men who laid the foundation of civilization.

Here's to Magnes' liking of history and metal. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muI6csrBdu4

[Nitz]

Hey Book, do you have any suggested reading on Talmud writings/interpretations? What about a place to get the actual text?



http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html

Download the entire website for free here: http://www.come-and-hear.com/download.html

|--0--|


Thanks Book, do you have any idea where to get physical version? I would like to have it in my possesion for referencing...or do I have to get to the top floor of the Rothschild Library in Israel to view that?


The thing is, Nitz, there is a Goyim version of the tamuld, and there is a rabbid zionist version of the talmud, which you will not be able to get your hands on. That version is held by rabbis and other upper-echelon zionist satanists, and not available from amazon.com or wherever.

You can order studies on it.
I recommend reading "The talmud unmasked: Secret rabbinical teaching concerning Christians". The info is concise and compiled so you don't have to go through their entire book of satan gibberish.


OK, thanks..unfortunately that doesnt do very good when arguing certain topics...I will avoid bringing up the Talmud then with those I discuss topics of Jewish control with...I see it as a perfect oppurtunity for someone to discredit an argument if I claim the Talmud says something and than fail to be able to physically prove it...and though I believe it to be true, offering the explanation that "there is a Goyim version and a sacred Rabbi version that I cant get my hands on" may serve to make me look questionable in the debate...so, those of you who believe that the Talmud does contain all this stuff, you are basing it off of the interpretations of men who claim to have seen it, correct? Is there truely no library that would contain this?

[sirgonzo420]

I just bought, but have not yet read entirely Elizabeth Dilling's book "The Plot Against Christianity" formerly known as "The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today".

Here it is from amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Plot-Against-Christianity-Elizabeth-Dilling/dp/0939482452

Here it is online for free at:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/index.html


The book posted above is full of full-page scans from the Talmud.

http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/exhibits/68.jpg http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/exhibits/202.jpg

[Awoke]

OK, thanks..unfortunately that doesnt do very good when arguing certain topics...I will avoid bringing up the Talmud then with those I discuss topics of Jewish control with...I see it as a perfect oppurtunity for someone to discredit an argument if I claim the Talmud says something and than fail to be able to physically prove it...and though I believe it to be true, offering the explanation that "there is a Goyim version and a sacred Rabbi version that I cant get my hands on" may serve to make me look questionable in the debate...so, those of you who believe that the Talmud does contain all this stuff, you are basing it off of the interpretations of men who claim to have seen it, correct? Is there truely no library that would contain this?


OK, nitz, I haven't interacted with you before, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you honestly want to learn about the conspiracy, and you are looking for answers.

The studies on the Talmud are based on the zionist/cabbalist/babylonian version of the talmud. Even though I stated that you can't just buy it at your local bookstore, upon reflection, that may or may not be true. I have seen books with that title, however that does not mean that they contain the same writings as the copy you would find in a synagogue.

I can say with certainty that the zionist/luciferian version has leaked out of zionist hands and fallen into the hands of some true and proper Christians who have dissected it a number of times. The book "The Plot against the Church" has details in it, as well as the other book I mentioned above.

However, if you want to be able to talk to people about the disproportionate power that the jew has over this world, you need not look for a copy of the talmud. Read the book "The synagogue of satan" by Andrew Carrington Hitchcock (available online for free at www.synagoguesofsatan.com - Warning, I got a virus popup and quarantine there, but I copied the book into a word file without incident)
You can buy it from amazon.com in hardcopy.

This book is a dedicated timeline of the jewish conspiracy, starting in the year 740AD and working up to 2006 I think. Good book. Lot's of facts which I have already corroborated, and some other statements which I have not corroborated (Such as George W Bush is an ashkenazi jew - Sources? Proofs?)
I contacted the publisher and recieved no reply, so I will contact the author next.

But the overall picture is accurate based on the other books I've read to date.

I personally stay away from "The Protocols of the elders of zion" because the authourship is questionable, and if you want to discuss the conspiracy with people who are new to it, you want to know that you are using irrefutable sources.


Now, I don't know if you're a Christian or not, but I am, so although my sources are Christian based, the info should be known by all non-jews throughout the world. You can count on The Plot against the Church, even if you're not a Christian, to show you proofs of the jewish conspiracy, because the source documents they use are historical pieces that are irrefutable and often written by jews themselves.
If is my #1 go-to source, because of the authenticity of the sources used.


So, some links:
The Plot against the Church - http://www.catholicvoice.co.uk/pinay - Book online
The Synagogue of Satan - www.andrewcarringtonhitchcock.com - Book online
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Jewish_power_watch.html
www.jewwatch.com


Some books:
The Plot against the Church - Maurice Pinay
The Synagogue of Satan - Andrew Hitchcock
The mystery of Freemasonry Unveiled - Cardinal Caro y Rodriguez of Santiago
The Talmud unmasked - Multiple authors
The post-counciliar (Or New Montinian) Church - Joaquin Saenz Y Arriaga (Hard to find)
Masonry: Conspiracy against Christianity - A. Ralph Epperson
Proofs of a Conspiracy - John Robison
The Jewish Religion - Elizabeth Dilling
The Thirteenth Tribe - Arther Koestler

There are others I've read, but those are the best so far.
Most of these are available as Downloadable PDF files, but not all.


EDITED for typos and to add bolding and colour.

[MAGNES]

Awoke, you would benefit from starting your own threads with all that knowledge,
then link to it, that post is a keeper, and many of your other posts as well, it would
be a time saver for you and one stop shopping. Like your posts and information,
it is constantly coming up, the Protocols, you can always refer to them, pertinent
on many issues.

That was a good overview with references, can't beat that, It's going on my hard drive.
I don't have that many, it will join the exchange we had on book on masons. ;)

[MAGNES]

Magnes, you andI are fighting this battle on the same side, no doubt.

But to be clear on my stance, Christianity would be Christianity without Plato and Socrates.

Put simply: Christ came, Christ died, Christ rose. Plato and Socrates had nothing to do with that.


Western Philosophy, Christian, European, many leaders and writers, even within the Church,
from the very beginning, is highly influenced by Hellenic Philosophy and those key people.
Even the Neo Platonists, the Hellenistic Kingdoms, they laid the groundwork for all this,
things would be very different, it took real people, you don't give them credit. Non of this
is anti Christian. Even the controlled version of history cannot deny what I state above.
They attack and corrupt this history and players where they can for a reason, the Occult does.

[DMac]

I agree with you, Awoke. Christianity is based on Christ dying for our sins, but I see three nations that God used to spread the word. The Hebrews, Greeks, and Romans/Byzantines. The Hebrew's Old Testament had prophesies of the Messiah.

But the Greek philosophers brought logic and the love of learning and justice to the world, but it wasn't just the philosophers in classrooms. I see Alexander The Greek equally respnible as Plato and Socrates. Alexander The Great paved the infrastructure for it's spread. Alexander was very civil when compared to most conquerers especially in antiquity. He was the first to learn from those he ruled. The Greeks had the hebrew texts tranlated to Greek and distributed it to the world before Jesus was born. When Jesus was born, scholars across the known world knew of the hebrew messiah. It's one of the reasons why the wise men probably knew. It's also why the disciples were able to spread the word so easily not only because of the prevalance of Greek philosophy but because of the translated hebrew texts.

It's one of the reasons they try so hard to pervert the history of the Greeks by calling them drunks, homosexuals, etc. It would be as if 2000 years from now, people summed up the 200 years of American culture by looking at San Francisco in 2010 instead of looking at Thomas Jefferson et. al. Most of the libel of Alexander the Great was spread by the politicians back home. The men who marched with him had a different tale.




Alexander the Great never would have accomplished all he did if it were not for Socrates and Plato, for Alexander's greatest teacher, one of history's most famous student-teacher relationships, was Aristotle.

Aristotle and Alexander spent 3 years together, where Aristotle trained Alexander on philosophy, ethics and science.

Without Socrates, there would have been no Aristotle.

With no Aristotle, who knows what would have become of Alexander.

[Awoke]

Yeah, all I'm saying, Magnes, is that Jesus Christ is the Lord, and Christianity would have been born from him, whether Plato and Socrates were ever born into existance or not.

Plato and Socrates are just men. Christ is God. Big difference.

[Nitz]

OK, thanks..unfortunately that doesnt do very good when arguing certain topics...I will avoid bringing up the Talmud then with those I discuss topics of Jewish control with...I see it as a perfect oppurtunity for someone to discredit an argument if I claim the Talmud says something and than fail to be able to physically prove it...and though I believe it to be true, offering the explanation that "there is a Goyim version and a sacred Rabbi version that I cant get my hands on" may serve to make me look questionable in the debate...so, those of you who believe that the Talmud does contain all this stuff, you are basing it off of the interpretations of men who claim to have seen it, correct? Is there truely no library that would contain this?


OK, nitz, I haven't interacted with you before, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you honestly want to learn about the conspiracy, and you are looking for answers.

The studies on the Talmud are based on the zionist/cabbalist/babylonian version of the talmud. Even though I stated that you can't just buy it at your local bookstore, upon reflection, that may or may not be true. I have seen books with that title, however that does not mean that they contain the same writings as the copy you would find in a synagogue.

I can say with certainty that the zionist/luciferian version has leaked out of zionist hands and fallen into the hands of some true and proper Christians who have dissected it a number of times. The book "The Plot against the Church" has details in it, as well as the other book I mentioned above.

However, if you want to be able to talk to people about the disproportionate power that the jew has over this world, you need not look for a copy of the talmud. Read the book "The synagogue of satan" by Andrew Carrington Hitchcock (available online for free at www.synagoguesofsatan.com - Warning, I got a virus popup and quarantine there, but I copied the book into a word file without incident)
You can buy it from amazon.com in hardcopy.

This book is a dedicated timeline of the jewish conspiracy, starting in the year 740AD and working up to 2006 I think. Good book. Lot's of facts which I have already corroborated, and some other statements which I have not corroborated (Such as George W Bush is an ashkenazi jew - Sources? Proofs?)
I contacted the publisher and recieved no reply, so I will contact the author next.

But the overall picture is accurate based on the other books I've read to date.

I personally stay away from "The Protocols of the elders of zion" because the authourship is questionable, and if you want to discuss the conspiracy with people who are new to it, you want to know that you are using irrefutable sources.


Now, I don't know if you're a Christian or not, but I am, so although my sources are Christian based, the info should be known by all non-jews throughout the world. You can count on The Plot against the Church, even if you're not a Christian, to show you proofs of the jewish conspiracy, because the source documents they use are historical pieces that are irrefutable and often written by jews themselves.
If is my #1 go-to source, because of the authenticity of the sources used.


So, some links:
The Plot against the Church - http://www.catholicvoice.co.uk/pinay - Book online
The Synagogue of Satan - www.andrewcarringtonhitchcock.com - Book online
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Jewish_power_watch.html
www.jewwatch.com


Some books:
The Plot against the Church - Maurice Pinay
The Synagogue of Satan - Andrew Hitchcock
The mystery of Freemasonry Unveiled - Cardinal Caro y Rodriguez of Santiago
The Talmud unmasked - Multiple authors
The post-counciliar (Or New Montinian) Church - Joaquin Saenz Y Arriaga (Hard to find)
Masonry: Conspiracy against Christianity - A. Ralph Epperson
Proofs of a Conspiracy - John Robison
The Jewish Religion - Elizabeth Dilling
The Thirteenth Tribe - Arther Koestler

There are others I've read, but those are the best so far.
Most of these are available as Downloadable PDF files, but not all.


EDITED for typos and to add bolding and colour.


Beautifull! Thanks for all the well organized info...Thanks for "giving me the benefit of the doubt"...lol, I have been a quiet member and was also a quiet member on the original GIM and am well aware of the occasional "problem" that comes up from time to time!...Anyways, I came across much of the Jewish issue while extensively studying 9/11(with great help from both GIM1 and this sight, especially Patcolo!)...anyway, I am just now getting into deeper aspects of the subject and wanted to have this book I hear so much about as an "in your face" piece of evidence for certain people in my life that need some convincing...but like you said, if it is a heavily guarded book, for obvious reasons, so be it...I have more than enough evidence for my particular argument on world control structures, the US Government, the banking industry and the media alone is enough for me to own anyone in a real life argument...I will also read up on the books suggested here as well as the online source provided by Book earlier(thanks again Book)

Thanks again for the help!

[Awoke]

Start with "The Plot against the Church" and "The synagogue of satan" and you'll be good to go.

[RJB]

Alexander the Great never would have accomplished all he did if it were not for Socrates and Plato, for Alexander's greatest teacher, one of history's most famous student-teacher relationships, was Aristotle.

Aristotle and Alexander spent 3 years together, where Aristotle trained Alexander on philosophy, ethics and science.

Without Socrates, there would have been no Aristotle.

With no Aristotle, who knows what would have become of Alexander.I agree 100%, but someone was needed to take it beyond the classroom. I see all of them as equals.

BTW Dmac, I'm looking forward to your thread about the differnce between the dualism of Plato and Decartes. Last time I read that stuff was as a college student. I'm looking forward to rereading it as a man with a little more sense.

[Awoke]

Some books:
The Plot against the Church - Maurice Pinay
The Synagogue of Satan - Andrew Hitchcock
The mystery of Freemasonry Unveiled - Cardinal Caro y Rodriguez of Santiago
The Talmud unmasked - Multiple authors
The post-counciliar (Or New Montinian) Church - Joaquin Saenz Y Arriaga (Hard to find)
Masonry: Conspiracy against Christianity - A. Ralph Epperson
Proofs of a Conspiracy - John Robison
The Jewish Religion - Elizabeth Dilling
The Thirteenth Tribe - Arther Koestler

There are others I've read, but those are the best so far.
Most of these are available as Downloadable PDF files, but not all.


EDITED for typos and to add bolding and colour.


Beautifull! Thanks for all the well organized info...Thanks for "giving me the benefit of the doubt"...lol, I have been a quiet member and was also a quiet member on the original GIM and am well aware of the occasional "problem" that comes up from time to time!...Anyways, I came across much of the Jewish issue while extensively studying 9/11(with great help from both GIM1 and this sight, especially Patcolo!)...anyway, I am just now getting into deeper aspects of the subject and wanted to have this book I hear so much about as an "in your face" piece of evidence for certain people in my life that need some convincing...but like you said, if it is a heavily guarded book, for obvious reasons, so be it...I have more than enough evidence for my particular argument on world control structures, the US Government, the banking industry and the media alone is enough for me to own anyone in a real life argument...I will also read up on the books suggested here as well as the online source provided by Book earlier(thanks again Book)

Thanks again for the help!



Hey Nitz, I just wanted to add a book to the list that is a fundamental buttress, and which I should have included in my original post:

The Six pointed star: Its origin and usage - O.J.Graham

Shows the history of the seal of solomon, aka the star of david. (David Ben Gurion, that is...)

[onceseen]

A book I would recommend on mind control:

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/illuminati_formula_mind_control.htm

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Let me link a few photos...

Beyonce Throws up Rockefeller Hand Sign:
http://indianinthemachine.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/beyoncesatan.jpg?w=300&h=400

Horns

http://indianinthemachine.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/ladygagabasphomet.jpg?w=450&h=599


Horns
http://indianinthemachine.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/lady-gaga-antler-diner.jpg?w=300&h=214

Straight up Baphomet

http://indianinthemachine.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/gagaphometoneeye.jpg?w=450&h=259


Lemme guess, she's really into college football?

She's giving the horns with a skull on her ring finger.

http://indianinthemachine.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/rihanna-run-this-town-music-video.jpg?w=300&h=300

Meeting the Queen:

http://indianinthemachine.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/ladygagaandqueenelizabethsatanworshippersunite.jpg ?w=233&h=300

[onceseen]

Scroll down the bottom and check out the tinychat symbol. Hmmm....

dys

[osoab]

Have fun with this one. I think I have less respect for Cash now. Damn the symbolism is blatant.

Make sure to pause what Bono is writing at 1:39.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7auzYgVosJA&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7auzYgVosJA&feature=related

[PatColo]

Smallstorm interviews this dude, 1.5 hr: http://aboutthesky.com/podcasts

Mark Devlin 10/12/16

Mark DevlinMark Devlin may well be the guy who can take the torch from the inimitable Dave McGowan! A professional DJ from the U.K. whose understanding of intel control of the music world and celebrities is detailed in his 600-page first book titled Musical Truth, Mark explains a lot in our interview, including the hijacking of our free-will consciousness, revealing his depth in metaphysical workings. "No one in the public eye is what they seem," he told me. A fascinating speaker, start the interview now! Visit his web page here and buy his book through him directly (try to avoid Amazon) here.



Listen here mp3 http://aboutthesky.com/images/stories/audio/Ssmallstorm_podcast_057_10-12-16.mp3

[PatColo]

This guest sticks up for the standard hippy era narrative, says it was authentic/grass roots, and how we may be seeing revisionism now by folks who just don't like the music blah blah. 1h 20m

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_w2L4r-sn-Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w2L4r-sn-Y&feature=related

Sage of Quay Radio - Was The 1960s Counter-Culture Real? (Oct 2016)
The Sage of Quay Radio Hour 1,042 views
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Published on Oct 14, 2016
Tonight my very special guest is Carl who is a listener of the show.

Carl contacted me via email and expressed his thoughts on why he believes the current meme relegating the 1960s counter-culture movement as nothing more than an engineered CIA / Tavistock Psy-Op is simply an effort by the controllers to down play and marginalize a significant time in history when the organic human spirit was breaking through the matrix.

I asked Carl if he would come on the show to express his thoughts and he accepted the invite.

Carl is child of 60’s and to kick the show off I asked him how he came to the conclusion that the 1960s was far more organic than how history depicts it today.