My experience at the AIRPORT

[Spectrism]

I have to travel for business and thankfully only fly a couple times per year. One of my home airports now has backscatter X-ray machines at all check points. As I was preparing to go through the metal detector, they told me to remove everything from pockets and my belt. They never did that before. It was then that I noticed all the X-ray machines set up like locking gates for animals about to be slaughtered. I did not realize they were so small and right out in the lines. I was expecting them to be in a back room. I told the first TSA guy that I am not going into the X-ray scanner. He said it was safe and I told him that I did not believe that.

Then I heard the happy words: "Opt out."

I was taken through a metal detector and past the other screeners where officer Luciano began to recite his spiel. I asked him if he was a sworn officer of the law. (In sales, I learned to quickly change the routine to make them struggle in finding a place in their normal procedures.) He chuckled a little and said he took an oath but he was not sure about a "sworn officer of the law". I asked if he was a law enforcement officer and he said yes.

He began to go into his recital again when I interrupted him. I got him to pronounce his name for me and I told him that he had the right to remain silent. He smiled like it was a joke and had no idea what was coming. I proceded to tell him that he also has the right and responsibility to obey all lawful orders (he smiles again) and that he is also responsible to disobey unlawful orders. Now he has a concerned look on his face.

He called for a supervisor. One flunky who could not supervise a ghetto basketball team came over to interject nothingness and then a woman with a little more intelligence stepped forward. Officer Rowdandski (sp) began to listen to Luciano's interpretation of what happened. I corrected his report and let her know that she too was responsible to follow only lawful orders.

They both referred to TSA procedures and that the only way I could pass would be to submit to a search. I asked if I was suspected of doing or carrying anything illegal. They said no... but all must be checked. I informed them that they were violating my rights from illegal search and that they are to uphold the law of the land. They held to their TSA procedure bit and said I could not pass unless I allowed them to search me. "Do you consent to officer Luciano searching you?"

I replied that: 1) I am not resisting or commiting any violation of the law, 2) that I will travel to my gate one way or another. She said that I had to comply with a search. I told her that she is now violating my right to free travel. You are detaining me and I want only to proceed to my gate. She insisted that I could not pass without being searched. "Will you permit officer Luciano to search you?"

"So you need my permission to do this unlawful thing?"

They got a strained look on their faces.... they were really thinking. Still, they could not break loose of their program. They asked if I was a lawyer. I told them I am an ex-military officer of the US and that I am aware of my rights and their responsibilities. I told him that if he intends to violate my rights then that is what he will do.

He started to tell me what he was going to do and started his pat-down.

Now we get personal. I told them both that this is nothing personal and that I realize they are trying to keep a job to support their families. But, I would run from this job as it is an arm of the beast. I asked the woman if she was Polish. She said yes. I told her she should know better than most how they are violating the law. She fell back on the TSA procedures mantra. I said that is the same excuse the Nazis used. They were incredulous that I would even say that.

Then the woman said it was impossible to find any job other than this. I told her that now she was in violation of the constitution with officer Luciano. She said she hopes the government will protect them. Then we talked about Egypt and the world situation. I departed on friendly terms with them shaking my hand and thanking me.

While this is not a great victory over the beast, this is a small education for a couple TSA people.

[Hermie]

Nice going.
You never know how the info you planted with them will spread.

[crazychicken]

Right on!

Not flying is a great way to push back.

I used to fly commercial four to five times a week. Now haven't flown commercial in over three years.

CC




Glad to see you give them some shit, but...
When will people just stop flying?
People should find alternitives like telecommuting, shipping materials and travel by car.
I guess I see airports as a place of business and not a God given right. If you don't like the way they conduct their business, don't patronize it!
The government destroys everything it touches and the TSA forcing this policy has destroyed the airlines.
Disconnect and leave them to rot!

[Spectrism]

It would be nice if travel were optional. When you work for a company that requires timely travel and flying is the only practical way, there really isn't much choice. I could always apply at the local WalMart to be a greeter. Somehow, I think that would not be a good choice. For now, the beast and I coexist. My real boss will handle the problems as they arise and will direct me when I am to do differently.

[Twisted Titan]

That takes alot of Heart Spect.

Alot.

With your actions you embolden The Few not to shrink back in the face of The Many.

I owe you Three Mercury Dimes for standing up for all of us when it counted.


T

[Twisted Titan]

It would be nice if travel were optional. When you work for a company that requires timely travel and flying is the only practical way, there really isn't much choice. I could always apply at the local WalMart to be a greeter. Somehow, I think that would not be a good choice. For now, the beast and I coexist. My real boss will handle the problems as they arise and will direct me when I am to do differently.


I understand the need to feed your family...but one has to ask themself, how far will I go?
No disrespect, but your reply starts to sound like someone in law enforcement, being asked by superiors to bash the skulls of decent citizens to uphold order.
I know it's an extreme example, but real. Just as the opposite extreme of applying for Walmart greeter.
You state "there really isn't much choice"...at least you left yourself open that there is choice.
How far will you go with this system in decay?
EE



I respectfully disagree.

Each of us best try to play the hand we are delt.

I mean take myself I litterally live in the "hot zone"

But being things are how they are ( family,School, employment etc) it makes strategic sense to be where I am for the time being.

All I can hope for is the fireworks dont start tommarow or next week.

But Eygpt is a Testament to just how fast that thin veneer of Humanity can be stripped away.

Bottom Line we do the best we can with what we got

[midnight rambler]

Well done.


They asked if I was a lawyer.

I've found this is the common response when they realize they're dealing with someone who won't submit to what they've been trained to do and they're at a loss as how to proceed - a very good time to seize the initiative (which you did).

[ShortJohnSilver]

Are you sure that TSA agents are even "law enforcement officers" - seems like the guy lied about that.

[VX1]

Wow, I've heard so many airport stories where people got taken down for not much more than looking at a TSA goon wrong... so good to hear a story where someone successfully held their ground and even left on good terms. Your tact was about on the level of a jedi mind trick ("...these are not the droids you're looking for..." :)). This is absolutely classic: "So, you need my permission to do this unlawful thing?" Bravo!

[midnight rambler]

I replied that: 1) I am not resisting or commiting any violation of the law, 2) that I will travel to my gate one way or another.

Dealing with the beast will become more and more a contest of wills.

[sirgonzo420]

Are you sure that TSA agents are even "law enforcement officers" - seems like the guy lied about that.


Not sure if they are considered LEOs or not, but TSA is under DHS.

[Spectrism]

That takes alot of Heart Spect.

Alot.

With your actions you embolden The Few not to shrink back in the face of The Many.

I owe you Three Mercury Dimes for standing up for all of us when it counted.


T


Thanks for the support. I did not see anyone else opting out. I also do not see all law enforcement people as THE enemy. These are common blokes that need to learn what we already know.


To EE- how far do we go? Well, let's reason this out. If I stomp my feet and make a scene, I get escorted out of the airport and get put onto their watch list. Fellow travellers will look at me like some nutcase and they will be glad TSA got me off their flight. I will lose my job and either take government unemployment or I will lose my house and put my family on the street.

If I were wealthy and out of debt entirely, I could be a mouthy hero and lone soldier on the battlefield. Right now that just does not seem like the smart thing to do. Instead, I prefer to use the power of the word and offer a different color pill.

[BrewTech]

Are you sure that TSA agents are even "law enforcement officers" - seems like the guy lied about that.


Not sure if they are considered LEOs or not, but TSA is under DHS.


TSA and DHS, like other three-letter agencies (FDA, DEA, etc.), are bureaucracies given the power to enact and enforce POLICY, not law. I'm coming to the realization that policy and law are definitely NOT the same thing.

[midnight rambler]

TSA and DHS, like other three-letter agencies (FDA, DEA, etc.), are bureaucracies given the power to enact and enforce POLICY, not law. I'm coming to the realization that policy and law are definitely NOT the same thing.


"All law is the protection of property rights; all else is policy and policy requires consent." --Jetgraphics

[midnight rambler]

Spectrism, imo your success was largely due to your calm, deliberate demeanor.

[Bullion_Bob]

I'm going to St Lucia very soon. Maybe I can hitch a ride on a tugboat.

[sirgonzo420]

Are you sure that TSA agents are even "law enforcement officers" - seems like the guy lied about that.


Not sure if they are considered LEOs or not, but TSA is under DHS.


TSA and DHS, like other three-letter agencies (FDA, DEA, etc.), are bureaucracies given the power to enact and enforce POLICY, not law. I'm coming to the realization that policy and law are definitely NOT the same thing.


Glad to see that!

[BrewTech]

TSA and DHS, like other three-letter agencies (FDA, DEA, etc.), are bureaucracies given the power to enact and enforce POLICY, not law. I'm coming to the realization that policy and law are definitely NOT the same thing.


"All law is the protection of property rights; all else is policy and policy requires consent." --Jetgraphics


Come to think of it, Jetgraphic's statement was likely the one that planted the seed. Thanks for the reminder!

[chad]

i don't understand the "just quit flying, that will show them" line of thinking. what i am supposed to stop doing next? stop driving when they have checkpoints? stop growing a garden when they want to inspect it for monsanto cross pollination?

fuck THAT.

i'm going to keep flying and be a pain in the ass. if enough people keep flying and are a pain in the ass, THEY'LL have to cave. me, i'm not caving.

kudos for spectrism being a pain in the ass.

[sunshine05]

I posted this a while back:
http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/man-found-not-guilty-of-tsa-arrest-charges/

It is about a man who was arrested over TSA resistance and was found NOT guilty. Some important findings from the trial that we all need to remember:


Uncontested TSA and police testimony at the trial established, among other things, three important points:

1. Despite calling themselves “officers”, TSA checkpoint staff are not law enforcement officers and have no police powers — and both TSA and police are fully aware of this. When the TSA calls for the police, they are just like any other civilians who call the police, and the police have no obligation to do what they ask. Police should not act, and have no right to act, in such a case, unless the police have a reasonable basis for believing that a crime has actually been committed or is being committed.

2. You have the right, recognized by the TSA, to fly without showing ID. “It happens all the time. We have a procedure for that,” according to the lead TSA “Travel Document Checker” at the Albuquerque airport. Signs and announcements in airports saying that all passengers must present ID are false.

3. You have the right, recognized by the TSA, to photograph or film anywhere in publicly accessible areas of airports including TSA checkpoints, as long as you don’t violate any local laws, photograph the images on the screening monitors, interfere with the screening process, or slow down the line. (Whether those limitations to your First Amendment rights claimed by the TSA are legal or Constitutional was not decided in this case, since Mr. Mocek wasn’t filming the images on the screening monitors, interfering with the screening process, or slowing down the line.) Signs or statements that photography is prohibited at Federal checkpoints are, in general, false.

Annoying the TSA is not a crime. Photography is not a crime. You have the right to fly without ID, and to photograph, film, and record what happens. Your best defense is your own camera and microphone. Ordinary jurors know, and are prepared to recognize with their verdict, that the TSA and police lie about what they are doing and why.

[madfranks]

Nice story, and I congratulate you on having balls of steel. I'm sure you've read plenty of stories of people who have been detained, arrested, kicked out of the airport, etc. for much less than what you did. If your luck had taken a turn for the worse you would have met a power hungry dimwit who wouldn't care about anything you said but would attempt to force you to submit under various threats.

[DMac]

i don't understand the "just quit flying, that will show them" line of thinking. what i am supposed to stop doing next? stop driving when they have checkpoints? stop growing a garden when they want to inspect it for monsanto cross pollination?

fuck THAT.

i'm going to keep flying and be a pain in the ass. if enough people keep flying and are a pain in the ass, THEY'LL have to cave. me, i'm not caving.

kudos for spectrism being a pain in the ass.


For the record, I think Spec did extremely well in handling the situation...couldn't have done better myself.
Some how it seems people think flying is a right?
However, I can't seem to connect the comparison of flying in a plane owned by someone else, a place of business, and a car that I own that is mine? Please enlighten me?
Is flying a business, a convenience industry? Is it publicly funded?

When I stated how far will you go, I meant, how far will you go to submit/comply to someone else's wishes to feed your family?
Everyone has their own line in the sand to draw, where is yours?
Maybe the TSA will introduce cavity searches next to their policy? Hey, ya gotta eat right?


Is it publicly funded?

Well, sorta:

The first US Government bailout of the 21st Century was for the Airliners, post 911.

I think the total came to about 18 billion or so.


The airline bailout bounty (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/03/05/8401274/index.htm)

The bailout bill authorized $5 billion in direct grants and up to $10 billion in loan guarantees for airlines. But the stipulation inserted by the Senators authorized the Treasury Department's Air Transportation Stabilization Board to negotiate equity warrants - options to buy airline stock at below-market prices - from any airline getting guarantees. (ATSB executive director Mark Dayton notes that to avoid conflicts of interest, the government-owned shares were pegged as nonvoting.)

Seems the certain Treasury admins might have made a few bucks off the bailout as well.

[Twisted Titan]

If I were wealthy and out of debt entirely, I could be a mouthy hero and lone soldier on the battlefield. Right now that just does not seem like the smart thing to do. Instead, I prefer to use the power of the word and offer a different color pill.


Now THAT is a smooth @$$ sig line if I ever did see.

T

[horseshoe3]

Some how it seems people think flying is a right?
However, I can't seem to connect the comparison of flying in a plane owned by someone else, a place of business, and a car that I own that is mine? Please enlighten me?
Is flying a business, a convenience industry? Is it publicly funded?


If the airlines themselves were the ones forcing you to go through these searches as a condition of using their planes, you would be correct. They have the right to impose restrictions on the use of their services. But when the government uses it's force to impose restrictions that neither party wants and some of these restrictions are in direct violation of the constitution, that is another matter entirely.

[tekrunner]

Great work Spec. You've clearly mastered the art of telling these goons to go fvck themselves without actually saying it. That way you can have your cake and eat it too.

[MAGNES]

Spectrism, thanks for sharing but I have to say like others pointed out,
you had some luck on your side, you cannot reason with a black mamba.

Cameras and lawyers scare them snakes.

So people are not opting out ?

I just saw a report on teevee, too many scans leads to cancer, lol .
They were not talking airport but medical, when it is too late people
will figure it out.

[Spectrism]

When I returned, I got talking with the flight attendant at the ticket/check-in point.

I told her a little of the screening I mentioned above. She looked at me with surprise and asked: "And you didn't get arrested?"

I asked: "What would they arrest me for, telling them their rights?"

She was obviously disgusted with the TSA tactics and fearful. I think all the airline people have had it with the TSA.

[Spectrism]

"And you didn't get arrested?"
As she pressed a button under the counter summoning TSA.

People become agents in the blink of an eye.


You mean like this?

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/5993/911949-agent_smith_super.jpg

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

TSA are agents of a federal organization

They are not officers of the law

Spectarism, excellent story.

[PatColo]

"Infowar @ LAX - Informed or Ignorant, Facing The TSA Challenge "

13 mins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s8vFHGldT0&feature=player_embedded

[kregener]

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/Kregener/Jackboots/motivatoraa6d12bfc9bdd430f9ee624f4c8e5eea99ea5c13. jpg

[sunshine05]

I hate how this has caused me to change the way I live my life....the choices I am left with. My brother is getting married in FL in June and I would love to be there but it is a 15 hour drive so it will end up taking a week for us to do this with kids - two days to get there, two days there and two days to drive home. OR I can fly? Nope. I can't risk subjecting myself or the kids to the TSA groping. So most likely we will end up staying home. I don't know what others are doing. I guess most people just accept it, which I hate.

[freespirit]

I hate how this has caused me to change the way I live my life....the choices I am left with. My brother is getting married in FL in June and I would love to be there but it is a 15 hour drive so it will end up taking a week for us to do this with kids - two days to get there, two days there and two days to drive home. OR I can fly? Nope. I can't risk subjecting myself or the kids to the TSA groping. So most likely we will end up staying home. I don't know what others are doing. I guess most people just accept it, which I hate.



what about taking the train? I know it can be kind of expensive, but would be shorter travel time than driving, and probly less security hassles than flying...?

[sunshine05]

I hate how this has caused me to change the way I live my life....the choices I am left with. My brother is getting married in FL in June and I would love to be there but it is a 15 hour drive so it will end up taking a week for us to do this with kids - two days to get there, two days there and two days to drive home. OR I can fly? Nope. I can't risk subjecting myself or the kids to the TSA groping. So most likely we will end up staying home. I don't know what others are doing. I guess most people just accept it, which I hate.



what about taking the train? I know it can be kind of expensive, but would be shorter travel time than driving, and probly less security hassles than flying...?



It's an option, but usually there are so many stops that it ends up taking a long time, probably close to the time it would take to drive.

[freespirit]

It's an option, but usually there are so many stops that it ends up taking a long time, probably close to the time it would take to drive.



i can appreciate that, but part of me feels that when we let TPTB and their efforts to erode our freedoms cause us to change our lives to facilitate their agenda, we let them win. their efforts to keep us at home, docile, in front of the crystal box, and easily controlled are starting to work...

my advice is do whatever you can to enjoy your life and freedom as you see fit, but try not to let their agenda dictate how that happens...the time to stay home and keep your head down will come soon enough.

i'd check out my options before writing the trip off completely...or if they're anything like my family, any excuse to not have to visit is a good one...lol
;D

[Spectrism]

Anyone else have an airport experience?

I will post AIRPORT II- the sequel on a separate thread.