wisconsin unions vs. scott walker drama update

[chad]

so, some of you have been following my updates on the union drama that is going on here with the governor.

basically, walker is trying to freeze the ability of the union to get raises + he want s them to contribute to their pensions.

up until now, i have been following with amusement, as it' been mostly stupid hyperbole back and forth (union says he is "treating them like slaves," walker says "he's calling out the national guard," etc.)

now i'm pissed.

i just heard on the radio that all madison schools are closed today so that students can go join the protest. schools in milwaukee are possibly going to be closed tomorrow AND "somebody might" be paying to bus students down for the protest.

seriously? we're closing schools so students can go join union protests?

[Ares]

seriously? we're closing schools so students can go join union protests?

Nothing like involving children into politics when they have no idea what they are protesting for.

[chad]

you know what all of it is over? he wants them to contribute 5.8% of their salary towards their pensions and pay 12.6% of their health care costs.

i just heard on wpr that walker "is like mubarak."

[Libertytree]

The chilren are gonna have to be fed, wonder who's springin' for the pizza buffett?

[Ares]

you know what all of it is over? he wants them to contribute 5.8% of their salary towards their pensions and pay 12.6% of their health care costs.

i just heard on wpr that walker "is like mubarak."


Yeah must be tough. Silly me for having a percentage of my money going towards my retirement and health care. I should just be a lazy state fed slob and protest and riot if I ever have to contribute to my own.

[banjo]

It's because the teachers have called in sick so that they can go to Madison. There's nobody left to watch the students.

[chad]

It's because the teachers have called in sick so that they can go to Madison. There's nobody left to watch the students.


yep, you're correct banjo. i heard a superintendent from middleton call in to wpr this morning. he said they had enough substitutes to cover it, but was told by the school board to close school so as to not incur the costs (don't about madison proper). callers to my local station are now saying teachers might keep calling in sick and "shut down the system."

the new slogan i keep hearing as well is "workers rights are human rights."

[uncletonoose]

Walker defends plan to strip state worker bargaining rights

Gov. Scott Walker defended as “modest” his plan to strip collective bargaining rights from most of the state’s 175,000 workers during a visit Tuesday to a La Crosse steel manufacturing company. Hundreds of protesters lining the street disagreed.

Speaking to a dozen or so workers at Ted Mannstedt & Son, the Republican governor outlined a plan he introduced Friday to fix a $137 million budget deficit by July 1.

The plan calls for most state and local government workers as well as school employees to pay half the costs of their pensions and at least 12.6 percent of their health care premiums. Walker says that will save $30 million by June and $300 over the next two years.

“What I’m asking for pales in comparison to what everybody else is doing in the private sector. ... We think these are reasonable, modest changes,” Walker told the steel workers. “I think most employees outside of government would say this is a pretty good deal.”

Walker didn’t mention the other component of the bill, which eliminates union negotiation for all public employees except police, firefighters and state patrol. Wages could be bargained for only up to the consumer price index.

Speaking later with reporters, the governor defended the exclusion of fire, police and state patrol unions, saying the state has contingency plans in the event of a state work stoppage but not for a walkout by public safety workers.

“I cannot account for taking over every fire and police department in the state,” he said.

Republican leaders in the Legislature said Tuesday they have the votes to pass Walker’s proposal this week.

The plan has spurred protests at the Capitol and across the state as public and private sector labor unions decried it as unfair and detrimental to the state’s standard of living.

Staffers in Sen. Dan Kapanke’s Madison office struggled to keep up with calls that at times overwhelmed their phone lines. Legislative assistant Hannah Huffman said it was the largest response the Republican senator has received on any single issue, with more than 5,000 e-mails received since Sunday.

In La Crosse, chants of “Hey hey, ho ho, Walker’s got to go” bled through the walls as protesters — as well as a handful of Walker supporters — demonstrated on Miller Street.

“He’s shutting down conversation,” said Barb Secord, a teacher at Longfellow Elementary School. “That’s not the society we live in.”

Ward Keil, a small-business owner from Onalaska, said he voted for Walker but disagrees with his refusal to negotiate with the unions.

La Crosse County Supervisor Margaret Ward said she came on behalf of the public workers in her district.

“We’ve run our county at a minimum,” she said. “The employees took furloughs. They’ve already made sacrifices. They didn’t make a lot of noise about it.”

Walker, who also made similar stops Tuesday in Green Bay, Wausau and Eau Claire, acknowledged the protesters presence while defending his plan as fair and necessary — and better than the alternative of laying off up to 6,000 workers.

“They’re good and decent people. They work hard in government at the state and local level,” he said. “You’re not going to hear me say an ill word about the public employees of the state.”

http://lacrossetribune.com/news/local/article_ce64a664-3992-11e0-b2e8-001cc4c03286.html

[Awoke]

I support (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/uaw-workers-vote-457-to-96-to-close-plant-instead-of-reducing-salaries/msg119309/#msg119309) Unions.

[7th trump]

They should have been picketing like the picture depicts when nafta was being introduced.
To late now!
Where is the picketing in washington where it should be?

[JDRock]

unions, a once noble group their leaders always revert to a top down take it or leave it heavy handed management style all the while playing footsie and having expensive meals with the very big wigs they were elected to DEFEND their members from!

throw them ALL on the street.

jews used unions extensively earlier,to foment division and class envy.

[7th trump]

unions, a once noble group their leaders always revert to a top down take it or leave it heavy handed management style all the while playing footsie and having expensive meals with the very big wigs they were elected to DEFEND their members from!

throw them ALL on the street.

jews used unions extensively earlier,to foment division and class envy.

Theres nothing wrong with unions, skilled trades anyway. Unions have to compete with nonunion trade and still get the contracts.

[Cobalt]

Walker is trying to bust the unions plain and simple
Too call it any other thing is silly

Just like the business thugs years ago he doesn't want the workers to have a voice and thinks he should be able to dictate working conditions and wages any way he feels.

I guess all you that feel he should be able to do it don't believe contracts are binding and can be changed at any point by just one party.

How about if your bank calls up and says yeah I know we signed a contract for 5% on your mortgage but after thinking about it we decided you need to pay 7% so from now on it will be calculated at the new rate

[chad]

i think they have a good argument in saying that their ability to negotiate wages should be maintained. no else on the planet has their wages tied to CPI, and i don't think they should either.

the "draconian measures" of them having to pay a little over 5% of their retirement and a little over 12% of their healthcare however, is...questionable. how's that for being diplomatic?

[Libertytree]

i think they have a good argument in saying that their ability to negotiate wages should be maintained. no else on the planet has their wages tied to CPI, and i don't think they should either.

the "draconian measures" of them having to pay a little over 5% of their retirement and a little over 12% of their healthcare however, is...questionable. how's that for being diplomatic?


That sounds reasonable and common sensed....and for that reason it will be summarily dismissed.

[horseshoe3]

i think they have a good argument in saying that their ability to negotiate wages should be maintained. no else on the planet has their wages tied to CPI, and i don't think they should either.


My wages are tied to whatever my boss decides to pay me and I'll bet yours are too. Every year, I get a review and at the end, my boss says "Here is what you will make next year." That's his offer. I can either accept it or try to find a better offer. The state employees have the same options as the rest of us in that sense. You can ALWAYS negotiate with your feet.

In the current topic of discussion, the workers are not protesting to keep the ability to negotiate wages. (That cannot be taken away from them except in the most blatant system of slavery.) They are protesting to keep the ability to have the union negotiate for them.

[goldleaf]

This is the first time I've liked most everything that our governor is trying to do. Why should state workers
have better benefits than most of the taxpayers that are paying theirs. I've talked to other union workers
and they say that they have to contribute some to their bennies.

As far as the wage negotiations go, I never got to do that. But maybe now would be a good time to
let the local governments negotiate with the employees in their jurisdictions. Wouldn't it be great if your
local school board could decide pay increases, like maybe according to performance. Get the federal and state blackmailing and bribery out of the picture.

[chad]

today's update: 15 schools closed now to attend the rally today. union people are organizing a recall effort against the governor.

i think this actually might get violent if it passes. anyone from madison here?

[crazychicken]

We have contracts with the Longshoremen and the Operating Engineers at one of our operations. Two of the toughest unions anywhere. Maritime work. We do bulkers with floating cranes.

You call the hall, tell them what you need, they send people, damn good skilled people, and they get the job done. I have NEVER paid a demarage charge.

You get a stiff, you call the Business Agent, the stiff gets replaced, right now.

I would not go non-union for the work we do even if I could.

CC

[freespirit]

as a non-union carpenter, i am kinda torn on the issue of unions. while i understand the function and obligations of the unions, their influence in the commercial building sector is tremendous. many malls, for example, are "union malls" meaning that if there is any construction work required on the premises, the workers MUST be unionized. what this typically means is that there is some yard ape chasing a broom for $25/hr or better, while i have to compete with the rest of the "non-union" contractors and ultimately make the same as the broom chaser while overseeing the whole job. if i were in the union, doing what i do, i would be making approx. $40/hr. However, by the local union's own admission, the only jobs they have these days are concrete forming jobs (something i am not qualified to do).

so, as a result, i typically am limited to working in the private sector (read residential), and am not able to charge the same rates as the union.

corporations are the ones that can afford the high union rates, average joe down the street that needs his roof fixed, or whatever can't afford to pay me $40/hr when he's supporting a family and paying a mortgage on $17/hr.

if you are in a union, good for you. hopefully you wont be disappointed when you need them to cover your ass.

if you aren't in a union, my heart goes out to you because you are constantly at the whim and whimsy of your employer.

as a side note, my father was a machinist, and worked for 27 years in a union position. he was smart enough to make his own plans for retirement, and good thing too, because when the company he worked for closed its doors, he and 600 others were summarily tossed into the street, and misled by their union into making poor financial choices regarding their pensions. as a result, many of them are forced to live on minimal income. BTW, in the last year of that particular plant's operation, it made approx $30 million profit, however, it was deemed insufficient, and the company relocated back to the US. this happened due to the efforts of brian mulroney during the NAFTA snafu, when it was decided that US companies no longer had to manufacture a certain percentage of their product in canada in order to sell it here.

(i may have drifted a little off topic here, sorry...)

regardless, it will be interesting to see how this particular scenario plays out.

[chad]

as a non-union carpenter, i am kinda torn on the issue of unions. while i understand the function and obligations of the unions, their influence in the commercial building sector is tremendous. many malls, for example, are "union malls" meaning that if there is any construction work required on the premises, the workers MUST be unionized. what this typically means is that there is some yard ape chasing a broom for $25/hr or better, while i have to compete with the rest of the "non-union" contractors and ultimately make the same as the broom chaser while overseeing the whole job. if i were in the union, doing what i do, i would be making approx. $40/hr. However, by the local union's own admission, the only jobs they have these days are concrete forming jobs (something i am not qualified to do).

so, as a result, i typically am limited to working in the private sector (read residential), and am not able to charge the same rates as the union.

corporations are the ones that can afford the high union rates, average joe down the street that needs his roof fixed, or whatever can't afford to pay me $40/hr when he's supporting a family and paying a mortgage on $17/hr.

if you are in a union, good for you. hopefully you wont be disappointed when you need them to cover your ass.

if you aren't in a union, my heart goes out to you because you are constantly at the whim and whimsy of your employer.

as a side note, my father was a machinist, and worked for 27 years in a union position. he was smart enough to make his own plans for retirement, and good thing too, because when the company he worked for closed its doors, he and 600 others were summarily tossed into the street, and misled by their union into making poor financial choices regarding their pensions. as a result, many of them are forced to live on minimal income. BTW, in the last year of that particular plant's operation, it made approx $30 million profit, however, it was deemed insufficient, and the company relocated back to the US. this happened due to the efforts of brian mulroney during the NAFTA snafu, when it was decided that US companies no longer had to manufacture a certain percentage of their product in canada in order to sell it here.

(i may have drifted a little off topic here, sorry...)

regardless, it will be interesting to see how this particular scenario plays out.


not at all, i always enjoy hearing stories about union versus non-union, especially how it relates to canada. i kind of consider canada my second home, so i like to know how you guys feel about the issue. it makes me feel a little more informed when i get into schenley's rye induced arguments with my friends from ontario. ;D

[freespirit]

CC....

i did get in on a commercial project by obtaining a temporary work permit from the union, but was disappointed when the union carpenters had to have constant supervision, much of their work redone, and general lack of enthusiasm for the job. these are supposed to be trained professionals, and were making better than $45/hr.

i and my partner were disgusted by the fact that we had to check all their work, direct them every step of the way, and often do the work for them, while making 30% less than they were.

i remember thinking..."if this is the best the union has to offer, we're in big trouble."

i realize not all unions are like this, but in my own personal experience, i wouldn't hire any from our local hall at ANY PRICE.

[MNeagle]

Your WI issues are on top of Drudge right now: www.drudgereport.com

[chad]

Your WI issues are on top of Drudge right now: www.drudgereport.com


it's going to pass. it will be interesting to see if they destroy state street once the word gets out.

[MNeagle]

also, they're not out when it's 20 below & blizzards either!

[osoab]

I wish the WI goons wouldn't give the ILL leaches any ideas. :(

[ShortJohnSilver]

I have zero sympathy for unions in government. I am willing to withhold judgment on the question of unions in business.

[Cobalt]

as a non-union carpenter, i am kinda torn on the issue of unions. while i understand the function and obligations of the unions, their influence in the commercial building sector is tremendous. many malls, for example, are "union malls" meaning that if there is any construction work required on the premises, the workers MUST be unionized. what this typically means is that there is some yard ape chasing a broom for $25/hr or better, while i have to compete with the rest of the "non-union" contractors and ultimately make the same as the broom chaser while overseeing the whole job. if i were in the union, doing what i do, i would be making approx. $40/hr. However, by the local union's own admission, the only jobs they have these days are concrete forming jobs (something i am not qualified to do).

so, as a result, i typically am limited to working in the private sector (read residential), and am not able to charge the same rates as the union.

corporations are the ones that can afford the high union rates, average joe down the street that needs his roof fixed, or whatever can't afford to pay me $40/hr when he's supporting a family and paying a mortgage on $17/hr.

if you are in a union, good for you. hopefully you wont be disappointed when you need them to cover your ass.

if you aren't in a union, my heart goes out to you because you are constantly at the whim and whimsy of your employer.

as a side note, my father was a machinist, and worked for 27 years in a union position. he was smart enough to make his own plans for retirement, and good thing too, because when the company he worked for closed its doors, he and 600 others were summarily tossed into the street, and misled by their union into making poor financial choices regarding their pensions. as a result, many of them are forced to live on minimal income. BTW, in the last year of that particular plant's operation, it made approx $30 million profit, however, it was deemed insufficient, and the company relocated back to the US. this happened due to the efforts of brian mulroney during the NAFTA snafu, when it was decided that US companies no longer had to manufacture a certain percentage of their product in canada in order to sell it here.

(i may have drifted a little off topic here, sorry...)

regardless, it will be interesting to see how this particular scenario plays out.


I like looking at it from both sides and have had the opportunity to see it first hand because I was non-union before my employer went union.

As a non-union guy I always heard the stories of union guys being spoiled, lazy, and grossly overpaid, I seldom found that was even remotely true once I became union and worked alongside them,I am talking private sector.

When we went out of town even before going union my boss set us up in a local hotel and paid for meals because he was a decent guy but I have worked plenty of projects where non union contractors showed up from out of state with the crew and their lodging was a personal tent they drug along in their pickup an set up in a state park.
They made shit wages and had to bathe at the end of a long day in a local lake and cook dinner over a camp fire, they were seldom given the opportunity to sit down and eat lunch with the rest of us.

The sad thing is the non-union guys employer made just as much from the contract as my union employer but because they hailed out of a low income area the employers could not only treat their employees like slave labor but easily find replacements if anybody complained, if they had a union behind them they would at least have more then one voice speaking up for them.

[mick silver]

whats happen there will happen in every city in this country . we can no longer pay for the stuff there getting for free . i had to pay into my stuff . the people working for us make more money then we do there something wrong .

[uncletonoose]

Democrat lawmakers have not shown up to vote. They (I don't know who) have dispatched police to look for them and bring them in. (per FOX News)

[chad]

news is reporting that a majority of dem lawmakers flew the coop before the vote, after being so ordered to attend. now law enforcement has been dispatched to find them and bring them back to the capitol building.

[chad]

it gets better! local radio is now reporting that they have verified reports that all 14 of them have fleed the state, thus putting them outside of jurisdiction of wisconsin law enforcement.

[Hillbilly]

I think they should fire all the American School Teachers and Hire Indian School teachers. The kids would probably get a much better education and at 1/4 the cost. ;D

[onceseen]

I take a look at someone like Mish and all I see is a guy with an agenda, which is to bust up unions. It's all part of the divide and conquer strategy.
This is how it's been going down: I work in the private sector and my wages have been taking a beating for years. If I suffer, you suffer.
This is how it should be going down: I work in the private sector, you work in the public sector, and OUR wages have been taking a beating for years. Hey bankers, give us back our money!

BTW, who cares if the teachers called in sick for 1 day? Kids don't learn anything in schools, anyway.

dys

[uncletonoose]

What don't they get-----The State has no more money

[Libertytree]

it gets better! local radio is now reporting that they have verified reports that all 14 of them have fleed the state, thus putting them outside of jurisdiction of wisconsin law enforcement.


Was this because they didn't want to vote one way or another?

[chad]

it gets better! local radio is now reporting that they have verified reports that all 14 of them have fleed the state, thus putting them outside of jurisdiction of wisconsin law enforcement.


Was this because they didn't want to vote one way or another?


they have enough people to pass it if they had a vote, but they can't convene the senate with less than 20 members present. there are only 19 republicans, so all of the democrats left the capitol. the governor then ordered the state patrol + police to round them up and bring them back to the capitol, but the news is reporting that a chartered bus took them all out of state so they would be out of the jurisdiction of law enforcement. i imagine they are in illinois somewhere. news is also reporting that they are refusing to come back to wisconsin.

[onceseen]

What don't they get-----The State has no more money


Sorry, but this is a crock of shit. Do me a favor, look at your State government's budget and look at payroll as a percentage of the budget, then come back and tell me what you found.

dys

[goldleaf]

Maybe they should stay there and let the Governor replace them! On another note, We also have these
prevailing wage laws here in Wisconsin that force you to use union labor on goverment jobs. I have been in touch with my reps. and word is there's a good chance some of these will be repealed.

[uncletonoose]

What don't they get-----The State has no more money


Sorry, but this is a crock of shit. Do me a favor, look at your State government's budget and look at payroll as a percentage of the budget, then come back and tell me what you found.

dys


Wisconsin is broke. The current budget is already $137 million in the red. The 2011–2013 biennial budget faces a $3.6 billion hole. So Governor Walker has called the legislature into special session and presented them with an emergency budget. His plan closes the deficit without raising taxes.

Government employees in Wisconsin get amazing benefits. They get a generous defined-benefit pension with minimal contributions on their part. They also only pay 6 percent of the cost of their health-care premiums. Few taxpayers enjoy anything this generous.

Having done that, his budget requires state and local employees to contribute half of the cost of their pension contributions — roughly 6 percent of their salary. He also requires them to pay 12 percent of their health-care premiums. By private-sector standards these are modest changes, but they will help close Wisconsin’s budget gap.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/259792/wisconsins-governor-walker-takes-public-sector-unions-james-sherk

The free ride is over and that ain't no crock of shit. 8)

[Cobalt]

Maybe they should stay there and let the Governor replace them! On another note, We also have these
prevailing wage laws here in Wisconsin that force you to use union labor on goverment jobs. I have been in touch with my reps. and word is there's a good chance some of these will be repealed.


One of the laws that are on the books is called the davis bacon act and it is always under attack by business, it was put in place to stop outsiders from coming into an area and low ball bidding on govt contracts because they pay their employees far less then the local companies, a local employer can't compete because they pay wages that are standard for the local economy around them.

[onceseen]

What don't they get-----The State has no more money


Sorry, but this is a crock of shit. Do me a favor, look at your State government's budget and look at payroll as a percentage of the budget, then come back and tell me what you found.

dys


States don't go broke based on payroll expenditures. Payroll expenditures are a minor part of state budgets.

dys

Wisconsin is broke. The current budget is already $137 million in the red. The 2011–2013 biennial budget faces a $3.6 billion hole. So Governor Walker has called the legislature into special session and presented them with an emergency budget. His plan closes the deficit without raising taxes.

Government employees in Wisconsin get amazing benefits. They get a generous defined-benefit pension with minimal contributions on their part. They also only pay 6 percent of the cost of their health-care premiums. Few taxpayers enjoy anything this generous.

Having done that, his budget requires state and local employees to contribute half of the cost of their pension contributions — roughly 6 percent of their salary. He also requires them to pay 12 percent of their health-care premiums. By private-sector standards these are modest changes, but they will help close Wisconsin’s budget gap.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/259792/wisconsins-governor-walker-takes-public-sector-unions-james-sherk

The free ride is over and that ain't no crock of shit. 8)

[Ares]

States don't go broke based on payroll expenditures. Payroll expenditures are a minor part of state budgets.

If you're looking at strictly a wages/payroll perspective you are correct. But that's not what Walker is fighting, he's fighting benefits and pensions. Which WILL break a state. Just ask Illinois, California, Michigan etc. how their pension system is drowning their state.

[uncletonoose]

The Democrat State Reps are doing their due diligence by leaving the state instead of doing their jobs. I wish the US congress would do the same thing.

Wisconsin Democrats Boycott Anti-Union Vote By Fleeing State

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 02/17/2011 15:21 -0500

The farce over the Wisconsin anti-union vote has just passed into the surreal. According to the AP, democrat lawmakers, who are firmly opposed to voting on the bill which is said to already have majority support, and who have been boycotting the vote by being absent from the state capitol, have now escalated and patriotically left the state. The reason is that while the vote can not take place without at least one Democrat being present, the police had been sent out earlier, with orders to sequester the democrats. The democrat response: run away. As the AP reports: "Senate Republicans can't vote on the bill unless at least one Democrat is present. Police could be dispatched to retrieve them, but it was unclear if they would have the authority to cross state lines." So to all who were expecting the latest iteration of members of the executive class to run away (with or without gold) to come from Africa or the Middle East, will be disappointed: it was in America's very own back yard.

From the AP:

A Wisconsin state senator says the 14 Democratic lawmakers who are boycotting a vote on a controversial anti-union bill have left the state.

Sen. Jon Erpenbach says the group wants to force negotiations over the Republican-backed bill, which would strip most public employees of their collective-bargaining rights.

Erpenbach told The Associated Press that he and his colleagues had left Wisconsin, but he would not say where.

He said the plan is to slow down the bill because it's "tearing the state apart."

We don't get what the big deal is here: just call Von Bernankestein's hot line and get him to deliver $10 billion, or trillion, it's all the same these days. These are the Chairman's favorite kinds of inbound calls. After all, the dollar needs all the help it can get to get to zero way ahead of everyone else. It is everyone's patriotic duty to go bankrupt and to demand bail outs from our money printing syndicate. Lastly, not doing so is racist.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/wisconsin-democrat-lawmakers-boycott-anti-union-vote-fleeing-state

[chad]

i just heard one of them call in to wpr. they are threatening to not return to wisconsin until there is an effort to recall walker; they are threatening to remain gone until he is removed from office and the legislation shelved. i didn't catch which one of them it was, nor am i aware if they are all saying this or it's just the one. just caught the end of it. state's on fire today, that's for sure. interesting times.

[sirgonzo420]

i just heard one of them call in to wpr. they are threatening to not return to wisconsin until there is an effort to recall walker; they are threatening to remain gone until he is removed from office and the legislation shelved. i didn't catch which one of them it was, nor am i aware if they are all saying this or it's just the one. just caught the end of it. state's on fire today, that's for sure. interesting times.


how are the looters?

too early?


:D

[chad]

i just heard one of them call in to wpr. they are threatening to not return to wisconsin until there is an effort to recall walker; they are threatening to remain gone until he is removed from office and the legislation shelved. i didn't catch which one of them it was, nor am i aware if they are all saying this or it's just the one. just caught the end of it. state's on fire today, that's for sure. interesting times.


how are the looters?

too early?


:D


too early. drinking in earnest doesn't start on state street until around 9 pm or so. i imagine uw madison will cancel all classes tomorrow, so tomorrow should be wild.

[Cobalt]

I have a couple questions about Walker

Does he have previous Gov experience that he brought with him when he was elected and what is his wage based upon, is it his experience or is it based upon what the previous Gov made?

In my union your pay scale is based upon how much experience you have and what qualifications you have, joe blow can't show up and expect to jump on any piece of equipment and get paid top dollar, he has to work his way up the ranks.

Maybe it's time we start paying newly elected officials minimum wage and make them go through probation period before they get raises and benefits

[lapis]

In my union your pay scale is based upon how much experience you have and what qualifications you have, joe blow can't show up and expect to jump on any piece of equipment and get paid top dollar, he has to work his way up the ranks.


That's the way it works for my husband's union, too. You have to take classes and prove your skills before moving up the scale from apprentice to journeyman and beyond.

IIRC, the members are also required to take CPR and other safety classes as part of membership.

[lapis]

From "Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights" (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/wisconsin-gov-walker-ginned-up-budget-shortfall-to-undercut-worker-rights.php)

"Wisconsin's new Republican governor has framed his assault on public worker's collective bargaining rights as a needed measure of fiscal austerity during tough times.

The reality is radically different. Unlike true austerity measures -- service rollbacks, furloughs, and other temporary measures that cause pain but save money -- rolling back worker's bargaining rights by itself saves almost nothing on its own. But Walker's doing it anyhow, to knock down a barrier and allow him to cut state employee benefits immediately."

And the Capital Times (http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_61064e9a-27b0-5f28-b6d1-a57c8b2aaaf6.html):

"To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist."

[Libertytree]

Maybe they could use this.

"The call of the house procedure may be used if necessary to obtain a quorum in legislatures and other assemblies that have the legal power to compel the attendance of their members. The procedure does not exist in ordinary societies, since voluntary associations have no coercive power. The call of the house "is a motion that unexcused absent members be brought to the meeting under arrest." The call of the house procedure is governed by the rules of the assembly, which may provide that one-third, one-fifth, or some other number less than a majority present may order a call of the house by majority vote. Under Robert's Rules, when a quorum is not present, the motion takes precedence over every motion except that to adjourn. But "if the rule allows the call to be moved while a quorum is actually present (for the purpose of obtaining a greater attendance), the motion at such times should rank only with questions of privilege, should require a majority vote for adoption, and, if rejected, may not be renewed while a quorum is present."[8]

When a call of the house is ordered, Robert's Rules provides that the clerk should call the roll of members and then call the names of absentees, "in whose behalf explanations of absence can be made and excuses can be requested." Following this, the doors are locked and no member is permitted to leave, and "the sergeant-at-arms, chief of police, or other arresting officer is ordered to take into custody absentees who have not been excused from attendance and bring them before the house," done on warrant signed by the presiding officer and attested by the clerk. Once arrested members are brought in, "they are arraigned separately, their explanations are heard, and on motion, they can be excused with or without penalty in the form of a payment of a fee." A member may not vote or be recognized by the chair for any purpose until he has paid the fee assessed against him.[8]" continued...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum#Call_of_the_house_.28compelled_attendance.2 9

[chad]

From "Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights" (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/wisconsin-gov-walker-ginned-up-budget-shortfall-to-undercut-worker-rights.php)

"Wisconsin's new Republican governor has framed his assault on public worker's collective bargaining rights as a needed measure of fiscal austerity during tough times.

The reality is radically different. Unlike true austerity measures -- service rollbacks, furloughs, and other temporary measures that cause pain but save money -- rolling back worker's bargaining rights by itself saves almost nothing on its own. But Walker's doing it anyhow, to knock down a barrier and allow him to cut state employee benefits immediately."

And the Capital Times (http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_61064e9a-27b0-5f28-b6d1-a57c8b2aaaf6.html):

"To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist."


what are these "fresh revenues" of which you speak, and where are they coming from? living here, i am seeing business flee the state. i am unaware of any "fresh revenues" coming in.

[lapis]

"To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist."


what are these "fresh revenues" of which you speak, and where are they coming from? living here, i am seeing business flee the state. i am unaware of any "fresh revenues" coming in.


They're not saying that fresh revenues are coming, only that Walker's new spending schemes could be implemented WHEN they come and there would be no "crisis."

Overall Wisconsin looks to be in better shape than other states, according to the Capital Times article:

"In fact, like just about every other state in the country, Wisconsin is managing in a weak economy. The difference is that Wisconsin is managing better -- or at least it had been managing better until Walker took over. Despite shortfalls in revenue following the economic downturn that hit its peak with the Bush-era stock market collapse, the state has balanced budgets, maintained basic services and high-quality schools, and kept employment and business development steadier than the rest of the country. It has managed so well, in fact, that the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau recently released a memo detailing how the state will end the 2009-2011 budget biennium with a budget surplus."

And from the TPM article:

"You can read the fiscal bureaus report here (PDF) (http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf). It holds that "more than half" of the new shortfall comes from three of Walker's initiatives:

* $25 million for an economic development fund for job creation, which still holds $73 million because of anemic job growth.
* $48 million for private health savings accounts -- a perennial Republican favorite.
* $67 million for a tax incentive plan that benefits employers, but at levels too low to spur hiring."

[lapis]

:D From the blog of a former Wisconsin state representative.

Scott Walker’s Manufactured Crisis…aka Remember the Balloon Boy? (http://markpocanwi.blogspot.com/2011/02/scott-walkers-manufactured-crisisaka.html)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UZmgH35WdC4/TVq5iiZZDOI/AAAAAAAAACU/AtM0N0AtofE/s200/BalloonBoy.jpg

Do you remember the balloon boy?

The balloon boy was the young boy that was allegedly thrust into the air by a large helium balloon. The media went wild. Everyone was on alert to save the boy. However, when the balloon landed, the boy was nowhere to be found. Instead we later found out that the boy had been hiding at home, instructed by his father to lie low as the family basked in the media attention.

Fast forward to today. The Wisconsin budget is $3.6 billion in deficit according to Governor Scott Walker. We are in crisis! 200,000 children will be kicked off of Badger Care and 6,000 employees will be laid off! Call the National Guard! Dissolve the unions!

But are we really in that severe of a financial crisis?

We found out yesterday after our briefing with non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau, the $3.6 billion deficit in the next budget that Governor Walker and the media has been repeating is a MANUFACTURED CRISIS. The number is based on $3.9 billion in new spending requests by agencies, a 6.2% increase. I don’t think there is a member in the legislature that would vote for that. In fact, I asked Director Lang when was the last time we gave agencies exactly what they requested and was told he couldn’t think of one and he’s been here decades.

Further, the budget forecast for the next biennium projects $1.5 billion in additional revenue something we would have loved to have last session.

And, the most recent national rating shows Wisconsin number 23 of 45 for deficits in proportion to our budgets, a far cry from last session.

The budget needs balance but there is NOT the crisis being manufactured. Yet Scott Walker is loading every radical special interest idea into a plan to “fix” the budget crisis.

Every crisis needs a hero. And that is the role Scott Walker wants. However, I think he will ultimately be cast as the balloon boy.

[ximmy]

Remember Bell, California... this is about keeping the pockets of officials filled with taxpayer loot... Give it up... they work hard for you money...

Teachers.. pfff... let them continue buying basic supplies for their students... they can live fine on top ramen & dry soup mix.

[sirgonzo420]

Remember Bell, California... this is about keeping the pockets of officials filled with taxpayer loot... Give it up... they work hard for you money...

Teachers.. pfff... let them continue buying basic supplies for their students... they can live fine on top ramen & dry soup mix.



gov't-funded schools shouldn't exist in the first place

[chad]

Remember Bell, California... this is about keeping the pockets of officials filled with taxpayer loot... Give it up... they work hard for you money...

Teachers.. pfff... let them continue buying basic supplies for their students... they can live fine on top ramen & dry soup mix.


poor, poor wisconsin teachers. average salary is 48k. 100% funded pensions. 100% funded healthcare. poor, poor, pitiful souls who have to eat ramen and dry soup mix and who only have to work 3/4 of the year. :boohoo

[lapis]

poor, poor, pitiful souls who have to eat ramen and dry soup mix and who only have to work 3/4 of the year. :boohoo


Yeah, that's right, too bad the rest of 'em don't have unions and collective bargaining rights.

Let's just roll back to the time when we had children working and factory workers had no or few bathroom breaks. The good old days! America: Race back to the Bottom! Embrace your serfdom fully, because it's coming ready or not.

[Cobalt]

Divide the masses and step the class warfare up a notch, no matter how it shakes out you can bet more end up falling down a class versus jumping up into a higher one

They didn't get too be the elites by allowing peons to tag along for the ride

[ximmy]

Remember Bell, California... this is about keeping the pockets of officials filled with taxpayer loot... Give it up... they work hard for you money...

Teachers.. pfff... let them continue buying basic supplies for their students... they can live fine on top ramen & dry soup mix.


poor, poor wisconsin teachers. average salary is 48k. 100% funded pensions. 100% funded healthcare. poor, poor, pitiful souls who have to eat ramen and dry soup mix and who only have to work 3/4 of the year. :boohoo


eek.. are you freaking serious... 48k yr average... and after 4 yrs & credentialing... I'll bet each gov. "afficial" gets more than that in perks per year...

Might as well work at Mc Donalds...

[Libertytree]

Wisconsin constitution: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/lrb/bb/05bb/191-242.pdf

"Filling vacancies. SECTION 14. The governor shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies as may occur in either house of the legislature."

Budget Battle: Democrats Who Left State are Located

MADISON - Democratic State Senators who protested the budget repair bill by leaving the state have been found.

The lawmakers are in the Best Western Clock Tower Resort in Rockford Illinois. More......

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/116390569.html

[Ares]

poor, poor, pitiful souls who have to eat ramen and dry soup mix and who only have to work 3/4 of the year. :boohoo


Yeah, that's right, too bad the rest of 'em don't have unions and collective bargaining rights.

Let's just roll back to the time when we had children working and factory workers had no or few bathroom breaks. The good old days! America: Race back to the Bottom! Embrace your serfdom fully, because it's coming ready or not.


Child labor laws are in place to hinder such abhorrent practices. But be that as it may, what the hell does that have to do with teachers striking for having to contribute a percentage to their own health care and pension? Why should it be 100% funded by the taxpayer who has enough worries of their own plate to worry about instead of worrying about keeping some government union fed?

Have them contribute a portion of their wages to their Pension and Health Care. The Private sector has to do it. If they don't want too tough shit fire em and hire someone who won't mind. There is a depression going on I'm sure someone will apply for the job and not mind paying an extremely modest portion of their pay (by private sector standards) for their health care and pension.

[uncletonoose]

The Rockford Tea Party caught two of the Wisconsin Democrat legislators leaving a Rockford Il motel to return to Madison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxKk3DSW6Sk

[Book]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0iAS2PFE3I

:o

[mightymanx]

Walker is trying to bust the unions plain and simple
Too call it any other thing is silly

Just like the business thugs years ago he doesn't want the workers to have a voice and thinks he should be able to dictate working conditions and wages any way he feels.

I guess all you that feel he should be able to do it don't believe contracts are binding and can be changed at any point by just one party.

How about if your bank calls up and says yeah I know we signed a contract for 5% on your mortgage but after thinking about it we decided you need to pay 7% so from now on it will be calculated at the new rate


Or just like when the President gave the UAW Parts of Ford and GM by breaking 200 years of contract law and stiffing the bond holders.

Or is that different somehow?

[Libertarian_Guard]

In my union your pay scale is based upon how much experience you have and what qualifications you have, joe blow can't show up and expect to jump on any piece of equipment and get paid top dollar, he has to work his way up the ranks.


That's the way it works for my husband's union, too. You have to take classes and prove your skills before moving up the scale from apprentice to journeyman and beyond.

IIRC, the members are also required to take CPR and other safety classes as part of membership.


You're speaking about 'trade' unions. I'm not sure, but I would guess that teachers unions are 'industrial' unions. Another big difference, so far as collective bargaining, is the difference between public and private sector unions. Government worker unions have little in common with the private sector unions that have spearheaded the American labor movement -- aside from the "union label"

Public sector unions had no right of collective bargaining untill the early 1950's. It came as a gift of the democrats as a way of buying their vote.

[osoab]

Doesn't look so homegrown now. I am guessing that this was the "person" paying to bus the students in.

DNC playing role in Wisconsin protests (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/DNC_playing_role_in_Wisconsin_protests.html?showal l)

http://www.barackobama.com/images/feature/11/02/15-workers_rights.jpg


The Democratic National Committee's Organizing for America arm -- the remnant of the 2008 Obama campaign -- is playing an active role in organizing protests against Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's attempt to strip most public employees of collective bargaining rights.

OfA, as the campaign group is known, has been criticized at times for staying out of local issues like same-sex marraige, but it's riding to the aide of the public sector unions who hoping to persuade some Republican legislators to oppose Walker's plan. And while Obama may have his difference with teachers unions, OfA's engagement with the fight -- and Obama's own clear stance against Walker -- mean that he's remaining loyal to key Democratic Party allies at what is, for them, a very dangerous moment.

OfA Wisconsin's field efforts include filling buses and building turnout for the rallies this week in Madison, organizing 15 rapid response phone banks urging supporters to call their state legislators, and working on planning and producing rallies, a Democratic Party official in Washington said.


UPDATE: House Speaker John Boehner called on Obama to pull OfA out of the effort:



“I’m disappointed that instead of providing similar leadership from the White House, the president has chosen to attack leaders such as Gov. Walker, who are listening to the people and confronting problems that have been neglected for years at the expense of jobs and economic growth,” Boehner said in a statement. “I urge the president to order the DNC to suspend these tactics.”

[Spectrism]

I watched the news reports on this today.

I saw a mob demanding more blood from those who pay taxes. When the mob is bigger than the private sector, the mob will eat up the producers. This mob needs to be slapped down in a most ferocious way.

[kregener]

It's because the teachers have called in sick so that they can go to Madison. There's nobody left to watch the students.


And this is bad...how again?

[chad]

it's moved past the point of being grassroots now. talked to a friend in madison last night, union + professional dem operatives from all over the country are coming in now + it's being professionally run. the senators that ran away to rockford yesterday met with people from washington (organizing for america).

[kregener]

Wisconsin:

State Retiree Health Care and Non-Pension Benefits Funding Levels 2008 (figures are in thousands)
Latest liability............Latest unfunded liability.......Annual required contribution........Latest actual contribution
$2,237,204...............$1,700,396............... ..........$205,116................................ $90,134

Underfunded pension liabilities Number of pension plans
Number of pension plans.......Pension assets ($bn)......Stated liabilities ($bn).........Funding status (% of tax revenue)
1.....................................$62.2....... ....................$82.9......................... ......-637%

[Horn]

A month or two after the union gets a passing grade, 50% of teachers will be sent packing and walls knocked down to put 52 kids in each classroom.

[mightymanx]

A month or two after the union gets a passing grade, 50% of teachers will be sent packing and walls knocked down to put 52 kids in each classroom.

If education was truly importent to parents they would ensure THEY porvided the best education available to their kids.
Blaming the state for not doing your job as a parent is pathetic.

[Book]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/07/22/weekinreview/23scott.600.gif

The unionized middle class is now being eliminated. Will soon only be two classes in America.

[chad]

protest sign of the day (hopefully this was not written by a teacher):

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5258/5454480842_9eca56e98a.jpg

[lapis]

Child labor laws are in place to hinder such abhorrent practices. But be that as it may, what the hell does that have to do with teachers striking for having to contribute a percentage to their own health care and pension?

Because there's forces out there that want to paint all unions with the same brush. The end game is to get rid of them all, public and private, and leave people with no voice against huge corporations like the "good old days" that have been long forgotten about.

But first "they" are testing the waters, see how the general public reacts to the situation in Wisconsin, and also things like this:

"Missouri Lawmaker Seeks To 'Modify' Child Labor Laws" (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/missouri-lawmaker-seeks-to-'modify'-child-labor-laws/)


Why should it be 100% funded by the taxpayer who has enough worries of their own plate to worry about instead of worrying about keeping some government union fed?

Why doesn't the worried taxpayer find out who's the root cause of all the worries (and it's NOT the public unions), and why he doesn't have a good-paying job?

This issue is classic divide-and-conquer. And sadly, people are falling for it left and right (har har).

[banjo]

"Daily Herald reporter Jeff Starck's live blog from Madison on protest of Gov. Walker's recent anti-union bill.

12 p.m. A man using a bullhorn told the crowd that Jesse Jackson is expected to address the crowd at 5 p.m. tonight"


Saw this in my local paper and it made me gag.

[Ares]

Because there's forces out there that want to paint all unions with the same brush. The end game is to get rid of them all, public and private, and leave people with no voice against huge corporations like the "good old days" that have been long forgotten about.

But first "they" are testing the waters, see how the general public reacts to the situation in Wisconsin, and also things like this:

"Missouri Lawmaker Seeks To 'Modify' Child Labor Laws"

I've had my own run ins with Unions over the years. Antiquated relics of a bygone era. They had their time no doubt about it. But now they are uncompetitive to their private sector counterparts. Government employees SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO UNIONIZE. Plain and simple. It's bad enough that government itself can't run it's apparatus sufficiently yet you want the lowest common denominator BMV employee able to have collective bargaining rights to pilfer more of the tax base. No thanks. I live in a Union infested shit hole in the rust belt. Over budget most of the time, and government sponsored corruption to the core. From no bid contracts (City and County level) to crony kick backs and forced recycling with UNION only run recyclers.
If you're looking for union sympathy you're barking up the wrong tree. You'll get none here I get to live it with a city who couldn't balance it's books if it's life depended on it, and hasn't met an over priced union contract everything from bridge construction to waste management. My trash guy makes more an hour than I do, and I work in Information Technology setting up data centers, to low level network configurations.


Why doesn't the worried taxpayer find out who's the root cause of all the worries (and it's NOT the public unions), and why he doesn't have a good-paying job?

This issue is classic divide-and-conquer. And sadly, people are falling for it left and right (har har).

Because most tax payers are sheep, but apparently they cannot rely on their "fellow workers" in Unions to actually care about their needs either. Look to states with the highest Union per capita and you'll see states struggling to stay afloat, California, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, etc. Over bloated and extremely generous benefits and pensions will do that.

And your take on the classic divide and conquer is complete bull. The root cause in all of this is the debt based currency. Not a snow balls chance in hell would unions get the collective bargaining power, benefits or pension if the monetary system actually resembled anything of honest money.

[lapis]

And your take on the classic divide and conquer is complete bull. The root cause in all of this is the debt based currency. Not a snow balls chance in hell would unions get the collective bargaining power, benefits or pension if the monetary system actually resembled anything of honest money

Wasn't there "honest money" in place when the original unions were formed in this country? I don't know. But I can tell you that those large corporations that exploited people and contaminated the food needed to be reigned in. They still need to be reigned in. However, I have a feeling that even if we had honest money, that wouldn't stop the greedy in power from abusing that power.

Of course the main solution to our mess is honest money, but what can we do in the meantime? I don't think taking benefits away from public union members is going to get us any closer to honest money.

Most signs point to the Wisconsin budget mess as being manufactured by Walker. I don't think that was an accident; I'm pretty sure he and his handlers know exactly what they're doing, and they're probably really happy that this is driving a wedge between the have-a-little and have nots.

[Cobalt]

The CIO, the Committee for Industrial Organization was started back around 1935 but unions of one form or another have been in this country far longer, the first strike was by printers back in 1774

[Ares]

Wasn't there "honest money" in place when the original unions were formed in this country? I don't know. But I can tell you that those large corporations that exploited people and contaminated the food needed to be reigned in. They still need to be reigned in. However, I have a feeling that even if we had honest money, that wouldn't stop the greedy in power from abusing that power.

Yes there was. But at the time it wasn't about health care, benefits, or pensions. It was about honest and fair wages and working conditions. Unions got greedy and wanted the public to foot the bill for their largess. That is unacceptable be that fraudulent debt based currency or honest money. It would be far less likely with an honest money system that the public would be expected to pay for such extravagances that they themselves (the public at large) has to pay for.


Of course the main solution to our mess is honest money, but what can we do in the meantime? I don't think taking benefits away from public union members is going to get us any closer to honest money.

Most likely not but it keeps the financial burden from collapsing the state, and less likely the result of the sheep fighting amongst themselves by blaming one another for the collapse. Say the unions get to keep all of their benefits, pensions, and health care covered. State goes bankrupt. Who get's blamed then? The union for wanting the government to pay for 100% of their benefits? Or the government that just ran out of money? Add into the mix the hidden expenditures governments don't talk about such as kick backs, skimming off the top etc. Granted the common theme here is the government. Which men would do well without needing such a beast of burden.


Most signs point to the Wisconsin budget mess as being manufactured by Walker. I don't think that was an accident; I'm pretty sure he and his handlers know exactly what they're doing, and they're probably really happy that this is driving a wedge between the have-a-little and have nots.

Very true, it wouldn't surprise me. But at the same time do you honestly think it fair that the tax payer fund 100% of THEIR employee's health care, benefits, and pension? Any company that did that would find itself bankrupt, as a task of that type of funding is clearly unsustainable.

[chad]

just talked to my friend on the phone. he's there. jesse jackson just gave a speech and is now leading the crowd signing "we shall overcome." he said people are going crazy, it's spilled way over from the capitol and people are all over state street. it's not like a riot, ut he said the friday afternoon "drink" is on by the students and people are whooping it up. tonight should be interesting...

he also said the rumor is a bunch of tea party groups are showing up this weekend to counter protest.

[JohnQPublic]

just talked to my friend on the phone. he's there. jesse jackson just gave a speech and is now leading the crowd signing "we shall overcome." he said people are going crazy, it's spilled way over from the capitol and people are all over state street. it's not like a riot, ut he said the friday afternoon "drink" is on by the students and people are whooping it up. tonight should be interesting...

he also said the rumor is a bunch of tea party groups are showing up this weekend to counter protest.


Have your friend send cell phone (or other) pics and post them. This is history in the making.

[Libertarian_Guard]

Even President Franklin Roosevelt, a friend of private-sector unionism, drew a line when it came to government workers: “Meticulous attention,” the president insisted in 1937, “should be paid to the special relations and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government….The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.” The reason? F.D.R. believed that “[a] strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to obstruct the operations of government until their demands are satisfied. Such action looking toward the paralysis of government by those who have sworn to support it is unthinkable and intolerable.”


http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/worth-recalling-fdr-was-no-fan-public-employee-unions#

[chad]

just talked to my friend on the phone. he's there. jesse jackson just gave a speech and is now leading the crowd signing "we shall overcome." he said people are going crazy, it's spilled way over from the capitol and people are all over state street. it's not like a riot, ut he said the friday afternoon "drink" is on by the students and people are whooping it up. tonight should be interesting...

he also said the rumor is a bunch of tea party groups are showing up this weekend to counter protest.


Have your friend send cell phone (or other) pics and post them. This is history in the making.


he's with a group of people, some of them are posting stuff. go here:

http://www.althouse.blogspot.com/

click on one of ann's videos, when the youtube page loads, there's lots of other ones.

[Libertarian_Guard]

he also said the rumor is a bunch of tea party groups are showing up this weekend to counter protest.


Let’s hope the tea party protesters use correct spelling and proper punctuation on their protest signs & banners. Because the teachers might be carrying their red pens. I wouldn’t want to see things turn ugly.

[lapis]

Let’s hope the tea party protesters use correct spelling and proper punctuation on their protest signs & banners. Because the teachers might be carrying their red pens. I wouldn’t want to see things turn ugly.

Yeah really. I saw one great protest sign that read (after Walker threatened to bring in the National Guard) "Can the National Guard teach Organic Chemistry?"

[lapis]

Michael Rupport weighs in on Wisconsin at his site CollapseNet.com:

"WISCONSIN: THE BIGGEST WAKE UP CALL SINCE THE ASTEROID" (http://www.collapsenet.com/free-resources/collapsenet-public-access/item/626-wisconsin-the-biggest-wake-up-call-since-the-asteroid-17-february-2011)

February 17, 2011, 1900 (PST) -- CULVER CITY -- Anyone who was aware of it was captivated by events in Wisconsin today as the Republican Governor, Scott Walker, a power player on the rise in Republican circles, triggered (I think deliberately) massive protests reported to be as high as 100,000 around Madison with an estimated 10,000 peacefully occupying the state capitol. He had moved to almost unilaterally revoke all collective bargaining rights for state employees, especially teachers. He was going to slash pay and eliminate benefits.


I don't have to make the comparison to Egypt. The protesters (mostly teachers, students, parents and union members) did it themselves in placards, chants and interviews. They should be upset, because their collective bargaining rights are on the table in a very (conveniently) poorly executed, high-handed bitch slap. This is a test case for what TPTB need to plan for when it happens in Illinois, New Jersey, New York, Michigan and California.

The bill (promoted by Newt Gingrich) allowing states to go bankrupt is very much alive in the House. And as I've been saying for months now, almost as soon as it has passed we're going to likely see four states go down in a matter of a few weeks. Wisconsin is not known for being an historical locus of violent civil unrest. The cheese is good. These were the most polite, well-dressed, well-behaved, angry people I have ever seen. On the other hand Newark, Detroit, Chicago and Los Angeles were home to the most-violent and bloody urban riots of the 1960s. In 1968, (the year of Tet, MLK, and RFK), the U.S. government was quite-accurately viewing the unrest as a revolution. I know. I remember it all on many levels. I have also seen the classified and unclassified documents from the era. Those cities, where thousands of people died in riots which brought the National Guard and Army to the streets, are also in states that are about to go bankrupt very soon. If Wisconsin is any indicator then we must prepare for a great deal of bloodshed because Chicago, NY, Newark and L.A. unions aren't going down without a fight.

With state bankruptcies public employee unions will lose their collective bargaining rights automatically AND WITHOUT JUDICIAL RECOURSE. As I, and others like Meredith Whitney, have been warning for months, this was going to be very serious. So I would like to ask one question. If the public employee unions get screwed WORSE by states filing bankruptcy -- and in a much-less romantic fashion -- how many more people are going to take to the streets and how much more violent do you think they will be?

Wisconsin is a deliberate test case and the Obama administration is in it as much as the Republicans, who are now going full-attack on teacher unions all over the country. The blitzkrieg to break the unions is well underway in its shock-and-awe phase... exactly as I said it would be over the last three months on the World News Desk.

Wisconsin is the biggest Wake-up call on collapse we have seen since a streak of light filled the sky before the dinosaurs met their fate.

The great tragedy is that there is no pot of gold or cash stash to bargain with. There is nothing to give the unions… anywhere. We've already printed so much debt that we can't pay interest on it. And there will be no energy to fulfill the empty promises of new printed paper or binary ones and zeros. That is what the world is coming to realize as I write tonight… in Egypt, in Tunisia, in Algeria, in Saudi Arabia, in Yemen, in Jordan, in Libya, in Bahrain, in Ireland, in Mexico, in Greece, in Italy, in Japan, in China... and even in Wisconsin.

God forgive me. I prayed for a fast crash.

NOTE TO RON PAUL: You have been bolder and more direct lately. You are speaking a clearer truth. We are listening... God speed. -- MCR

****************************************

Walker, just call the Bernanke and have him helicopter over a few billion in cash! :D

[willie pete]

jesse arrived :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5UrQLepttA

[Horn]

IMO, the Unions are as symbiotic to the gov, as are the large corps. (not really involved here).

This is nothing more than a show of trees, before they all meet hatchet, axe, and saw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWHEcIbhDiw

[osoab]

Is this the heart of the matter? I couldn't quite figure out what the play was with Walker holding out for ending the collective bargaining rights.

The Less Discussed Part of Walker’s Wisconsin Plan: No-Bid Energy Assets Firesales. (http://rortybomb.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/the-less-discussed-part-of-walkers-wisconsin-plan-no-bid-energy-assets-firesales/)


Posted in Uncategorized by Mike on February 21, 2011

Have you heard about 16.896?

The fight in Wisconsin is over Governor Walker’s 144-page Budget Repair Bill. The parts everyone is focusing on have to do with the right to collectively bargain being stripped from public sector unions (except for the unions that supported Walker running for Governor). Focusing on this misses a large part of what the bill would do. Check out this language, from the same bill (my bold):

16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling, and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).

The bill would allow for the selling of state-owned heating/cooling/power plants without bids and without concern for the legally-defined public interest. This excellent catch is from Ed at ginandtacos.com (who, speaking of Madison, took me to the Essen Haus on my 21st birthday, where the night began to go sideways). Ed correctly notes:

If this isn’t the best summary of the goals of modern conservatism, I don’t know what is. It’s like a highlight reel of all of the tomahawk dunks of neo-Gilded Age corporatism: privatization, no-bid contracts, deregulation, and naked cronyism. Extra bonus points for the explicit effort to legally redefine the term “public interest” as “whatever the energy industry lobbyists we appoint to these unelected bureaucratic positions say it is.”

In case it isn’t clear where the naked cronyism comes in, remember which large, politically active private interest loves buying up power plants and already has considerable interests in Wisconsin. Then consider their demonstrated eagerness to help Mr. Walker get elected and bus in carpetbaggers to have a sad little pro-Mubarak style “rally” in his honor. There are dots to be connected here, but doing so might not be in the public interest.

It’s important to think of this battle as a larger one over the role of the state. The attempt to break labor is part of the same continuous motion as saying that the crony, corporatist selling of state utilities to the Koch brothers and other energy interests is the new “public interest.”

From a post at ZeroHedge. (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/massive-protests-threaten-topple-new-regime#comment-982858) There are plenty of links in this post i didn't recreate those.


While there has been significant attention devoted to the fact that Walker's 144-page budget repair bill would strip away collective bargaining rights for public employees, a less noticed provision that would allow the state to sell or contract out any state-owned energy asset in no-bid deals with private corporations.

It's unclear what "the best interest of the state" is.

But if this deal goes through, one of the companies that could stand to benefit significantly is Koch Industries. Koch already has several companies in the state, including a coal subsidiary, timber plants and a large network of pipelines.

During the 2010 election cycle, Walker received $43,000 from the Koch Industries PAC, his second-largest contribution. The PAC also gave significantly to the Republican Governors Association, which in turn helped out Walker considerably in his race. Koch also contributed $6,500 to support 16 Republican legislative candidates in the state.

The Koch-funded group Americans for Prosperity has also been standing with Walker throughout his budget battles, busing in Tea Party activists and launching the site, Stand With Walker. After the election, Walker and other Republican governors received guidance from the American Legislative Exchange Council, a group that is also funded by Koch dollars and has pushed anti-union measures.

[lapis]

Yes there was. But at the time it wasn't about health care, benefits, or pensions. It was about honest and fair wages and working conditions. Unions got greedy and wanted the public to foot the bill for their largess.

Maybe so, but if they're so bad, and if Walker were "fair" then he'd be asking the firefighters and police unions to take cuts too. What a hypocrite.

[lapis]

Is this the heart of the matter? I couldn't quite figure out what the play was with Walker holding out for ending the collective bargaining rights.

The Less Discussed Part of Walker’s Wisconsin Plan: No-Bid Energy Assets Firesales. (http://rortybomb.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/the-less-discussed-part-of-walkers-wisconsin-plan-no-bid-energy-assets-firesales/)

I don't know, but thanks for the info. I'll have to read up on it. Good catch!


But if this deal goes through, one of the companies that could stand to benefit significantly is Koch Industries. Koch already has several companies in the state, including a coal subsidiary, timber plants and a large network of pipelines.

During the 2010 election cycle, Walker received $43,000 from the Koch Industries PAC, his second-largest contribution. The PAC also gave significantly to the Republican Governors Association, which in turn helped out Walker considerably in his race. Koch also contributed $6,500 to support 16 Republican legislative candidates in the state.

The Koch-funded group Americans for Prosperity has also been standing with Walker throughout his budget battles, busing in Tea Party activists and launching the site, Stand With Walker. After the election, Walker and other Republican governors received guidance from the American Legislative Exchange Council, a group that is also funded by Koch dollars and has pushed anti-union measures.

What a surprise! NOT.

[chad]

teachers are going back to work soon, now we are bussing in people from maine, california, ohio, illinois, + minnesota. so far.

[osoab]

teachers are going back to work soon, now we are bussing in people from maine, california, ohio, illinois, + minnesota. so far.


Are they going to fire them due to calling in sick to protest?

[chad]

teachers are going back to work soon, now we are bussing in people from maine, california, ohio, illinois, + minnesota. so far.


Are they going to fire them due to calling in sick to protest?


no. from what i've heard, come back to work tuesday or wednesday, all is forgiven. that's why the unions are now bussing in people. teachers will all be back to work soon, have to have somebody out there.

[mick silver]

do they get payed for not working ?

[chad]

do they get payed for not working ?


sure, they're using sick days.

[osoab]

do they get payed for not working ?


sure, they're using sick days.

And it is called fraud and they should be fired.

[freespirit]

do they get payed for not working ?


sure, they're using sick days.

And it is called fraud and they should be fired.


if everyone who used a sick day inappropriately got fired, there would be lots of jobs....have you ever called in sick, then went and did something other than be sick?

[k-os]

do they get payed for not working ?


sure, they're using sick days.

And it is called fraud and they should be fired.


if everyone who used a sick day inappropriately got fired, there would be lots of jobs....have you ever called in sick, then went and did something other than be sick?


Taking a sick day to goof off is fine in normal economic times. In times like this, it is foolish. Taking a sick day to complain about your job is stupid beyond belief.

[Cobalt]

Is this the heart of the matter? I couldn't quite figure out what the play was with Walker holding out for ending the collective bargaining rights.

The Less Discussed Part of Walker’s Wisconsin Plan: No-Bid Energy Assets Firesales. (http://rortybomb.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/the-less-discussed-part-of-walkers-wisconsin-plan-no-bid-energy-assets-firesales/)


Posted in Uncategorized by Mike on February 21, 2011

Have you heard about 16.896?

The fight in Wisconsin is over Governor Walker’s 144-page Budget Repair Bill. The parts everyone is focusing on have to do with the right to collectively bargain being stripped from public sector unions (except for the unions that supported Walker running for Governor). Focusing on this misses a large part of what the bill would do. Check out this language, from the same bill (my bold):

16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling, and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).

The bill would allow for the selling of state-owned heating/cooling/power plants without bids and without concern for the legally-defined public interest. This excellent catch is from Ed at ginandtacos.com (who, speaking of Madison, took me to the Essen Haus on my 21st birthday, where the night began to go sideways). Ed correctly notes:

If this isn’t the best summary of the goals of modern conservatism, I don’t know what is. It’s like a highlight reel of all of the tomahawk dunks of neo-Gilded Age corporatism: privatization, no-bid contracts, deregulation, and naked cronyism. Extra bonus points for the explicit effort to legally redefine the term “public interest” as “whatever the energy industry lobbyists we appoint to these unelected bureaucratic positions say it is.”

In case it isn’t clear where the naked cronyism comes in, remember which large, politically active private interest loves buying up power plants and already has considerable interests in Wisconsin. Then consider their demonstrated eagerness to help Mr. Walker get elected and bus in carpetbaggers to have a sad little pro-Mubarak style “rally” in his honor. There are dots to be connected here, but doing so might not be in the public interest.

It’s important to think of this battle as a larger one over the role of the state. The attempt to break labor is part of the same continuous motion as saying that the crony, corporatist selling of state utilities to the Koch brothers and other energy interests is the new “public interest.”

From a post at ZeroHedge. (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/massive-protests-threaten-topple-new-regime#comment-982858) There are plenty of links in this post i didn't recreate those.


While there has been significant attention devoted to the fact that Walker's 144-page budget repair bill would strip away collective bargaining rights for public employees, a less noticed provision that would allow the state to sell or contract out any state-owned energy asset in no-bid deals with private corporations.

It's unclear what "the best interest of the state" is.

But if this deal goes through, one of the companies that could stand to benefit significantly is Koch Industries. Koch already has several companies in the state, including a coal subsidiary, timber plants and a large network of pipelines.

During the 2010 election cycle, Walker received $43,000 from the Koch Industries PAC, his second-largest contribution. The PAC also gave significantly to the Republican Governors Association, which in turn helped out Walker considerably in his race. Koch also contributed $6,500 to support 16 Republican legislative candidates in the state.

The Koch-funded group Americans for Prosperity has also been standing with Walker throughout his budget battles, busing in Tea Party activists and launching the site, Stand With Walker. After the election, Walker and other Republican governors received guidance from the American Legislative Exchange Council, a group that is also funded by Koch dollars and has pushed anti-union measures.




It appears someone is already starting to hire for Power Plant managers in WI
Job posted 2/20/2011
Apply deadline 03/05/2011

http://www.thinkenergygroup.com/think.nsf/J/84239?Opendocument

Energy client is looking for experienced Plant Managers for multiple power plants located in Wisconsin. You need 15+ years of operations & maintenance experience in a power plant environment. You should have at least 5 years of experience managing operations & maintenance teams in an operational power plant. The ideal candidate has experience in a coal fired power plant. Salary is commensurate with experience.

[chad]

walker announced this morning that he starting layoff in the next 2 weeks if the law makers do not return and vote on it.

from ann althouse's blog, after she posted a video she shot at the mall:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RomBZR7X8RU/TWMeQkcghJI/AAAAAAAAAv8/DBFiZAKGdHc/s1600/threat.jpg

[freespirit]

do they get payed for not working ?


sure, they're using sick days.

And it is called fraud and they should be fired.


if everyone who used a sick day inappropriately got fired, there would be lots of jobs....have you ever called in sick, then went and did something other than be sick?


Taking a sick day to goof off is fine in normal economic times. In times like this, it is foolish. Taking a sick day to complain about your job is stupid beyond belief.


normal economic times??? when were those??? lol

taking a sick day for anything other than being sick is by description, wrong...but the reality is, we all have done it at one point or another, so by condemning others for it, we comdemn ourselves too.

we are too often quick to judge others, and not so quick to judge ourselves for the same actions.

like the guy that cuts you off in traffic, you curse him and say what an idiot, he shouldn't be allowed to drive! then 2 blocks later while your still pissed off, you forget to signal, and cut off the guy behind you...

i'm not saying those who wrongly took a "sick day" shouldn't be penalized somehow, i'm just saying don't be too quick or harsh in your judgment of others.

put yourself in their shoes first.

[Cobalt]

Guess it's Not okay too block the internet in Egypt but acceptable in WI USA




Madison, Wisconsin (CNN) -- A left-leaning website that union supporters used to rally protesters in Wisconsin was partially blocked as demonstrators gathered in the state Capitol over a controversial budget bill.

The website, defendwisconsin.org, could not be accessed on Monday and into Tuesday morning in the Capitol building, where crowds assembled over proposed legislation that would increase the costs of benefits to public employees and curb their collective-bargaining rights.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/02/22/wisconsin.budget/

[k-os]

normal economic times??? when were those??? lol

taking a sick day for anything other than being sick is by description, wrong...but the reality is, we all have done it at one point or another, so by condemning others for it, we comdemn ourselves too.

we are too often quick to judge others, and not so quick to judge ourselves for the same actions.

like the guy that cuts you off in traffic, you curse him and say what an idiot, he shouldn't be allowed to drive! then 2 blocks later while your still pissed off, you forget to signal, and cut off the guy behind you...

i'm not saying those who wrongly took a "sick day" shouldn't be penalized somehow, i'm just saying don't be too quick or harsh in your judgment of others.

put yourself in their shoes first.


I respect your approach, and I suspect you walk the talk. |--0--|

For me, normal economic times were any time before 2007 or so. Yes, I have taken sick days to go canoeing or go to the beach, but we didn't have record unemployment at that time. I see that I am being judgmental, but I can't help but think it's stupid to call in sick to protest conditions in your workplace, particularly now, when becoming jobless could quite possibly be a semi-permanent or even a permanent condition.

Since we are experiencing the worst unemployment rates since the Great Depression, I think people who have jobs should be grateful, particularly if:
- they are paid far more than private sector employees of similar job position
- they have a pension (granted, it's likely they'll never see it, but it's possible)
- their pension is 100% funded
- they have health care
- their health care is 100% funded

By the way, my judgment and criticism is directed toward government employees. I have mixed feelings about trade unions. I have heard all kinds of stories, good and bad, from friends and relatives in trade unions. I've never been in a union, and I've managed just fine negotiating my own salary and working conditions.

[osoab]

:ROFL: That will show them.

Missing Wisconsin state senators lose direct-deposit paychecks (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110222/GPG0101/110222132/Missing-state-senators-lose-direct-deposit-paychecks)


MADISON — Wisconsin state senators who miss two or more session days will no longer get paid through direct deposit. They’ll have to pick up their checks in person on the Senate floor during a session.

The new rule is aimed at forcing the return of 14 Senate Democrats who have been hiding in Illinois since Thursday. They fled the state to stall a vote on an anti-union bill, and have threatened to stay away until Republican Gov. Scott Walker agrees to compromise.

Tuesday’s vote was along party lines. The three Republicans on the Committee on Senate Organization voted for it and the two Democrats opposed it.

The measure applies to paychecks, per diem checks, and any expense reimbursements. The absent senators will have to collect their checks from the Senate majority leader.

[osoab]

do they get payed for not working ?


sure, they're using sick days.

And it is called fraud and they should be fired.


if everyone who used a sick day inappropriately got fired, there would be lots of jobs....have you ever called in sick, then went and did something other than be sick?


I have called in around 5 times in the last 20yrs. Each job I held where that occurred, no disruptions would have been noticed. By calling in sick, the teachers really screw up plans for multiple people and business.

If one really enjoys their job, one wouldn't screw the boss like that. I don't know where you work but if everyone doesn't work together, the work won't get done. The "teachers" are screwing over the school districts, the kids, and the taxpayers that pay for their asses to work.

I am not arguing that the "teachers" are overpaid. I believe that public unions should not exist. They can always walk out the door. Shame on them for not keeping their options open.

[k-os]

:ROFL: That will show them.

Missing Wisconsin state senators lose direct-deposit paychecks (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110222/GPG0101/110222132/Missing-state-senators-lose-direct-deposit-paychecks)


MADISON — Wisconsin state senators who miss two or more session days will no longer get paid through direct deposit. They’ll have to pick up their checks in person on the Senate floor during a session.

The new rule is aimed at forcing the return of 14 Senate Democrats who have been hiding in Illinois since Thursday. They fled the state to stall a vote on an anti-union bill, and have threatened to stay away until Republican Gov. Scott Walker agrees to compromise.

Tuesday’s vote was along party lines. The three Republicans on the Committee on Senate Organization voted for it and the two Democrats opposed it.

The measure applies to paychecks, per diem checks, and any expense reimbursements. The absent senators will have to collect their checks from the Senate majority leader.


Brilliant!

[SilverTop]

I'm not against unions as they have done a lot of good for the little guy, but are now out of touch. But I truly believe that government workers should not be unionized. When you unionize people who make a living off of the taxpayer, you leave the taxpayer with no strong voice in the process. Public unions negotiating with elected officials who are supported in their campaigns by the same unions, is a no win for the taxpayer.

In the Wisconsin issue the voters said no more when electing the governor and state reps this time. He ran on this reform so it wasn't any secret that he was going to reign in the 'looters'. I remember the number one negro telling the Repubs right after the election in 08 "we won the election". Well the shoe is on the other foot right now.

So I stand that all public unions should be abolished, just like when FDR said they should never be created, and turned down the attempt to create them when he was Pres.

I'm not a repub or dimwitocrat. I don't participate in elections so my opinion is mute.

[goldleaf]

K-os hit the nail on the head about negotiating for herself. I don't need to pay dues to a bunch of
anti-employer types who think they know whats best for me.

[goldleaf]

I almost forgot, Gov. Walker will be live on t.v. at 6 here in wisconsin.

[SilverTop]

I see that the WI senators have picked up a new name! :lol

TEA PARTYERS CONFRONT WISCONSIN "FLEEBAGGERS" IN ILLINOIS

Tea Party Patriots confronted the Wisconsin Fleebaggers at their Illinois hideout today.

http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/02/tea-party-confronts-wisconsin-fleebaggers-in-illinois/

[osoab]

http://i.imgur.com/S29ap.jpg

[mightymanx]

http://i.imgur.com/S29ap.jpg


Yes the teachers really need to get back to work, especialy in the adult education department.

[Book]

http://blatherwincerepeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gates-buffet.jpg
"The poor don't give a shit about those unionized Middle Class. Ha Ha"

[osoab]

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can’t Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/two-thirds-wisconsin-public-school-8th-g)


(CNSNews.com) - Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.

In the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education in 2009—the latest year available—only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,” including 44 percent who earned a rating of “basic” and 22 percent who earned a rating of “below basic.”

The test also showed that the reading abilities of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders had not improved at all between 1998 and 2009 despite a significant inflation-adjusted increase in the amount of money Wisconsin public schools spent per pupil each year.

n 1998, according to the U.S. Department of Education, Wisconsin public school eighth graders scored an average of 266 out of 500 on the NAEP reading test. In 2009, Wisconsin public school eighth graders once again scored an average of 266 out of 500 on the NAEP reading test. Meanwhile, Wisconsin public schools increased their per pupil expenditures from $4,956 per pupil in 1998 to 10,791 per pupil in 2008. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator the $4,956 Wisconsin spent per pupil in 1998 dollars equaled $6,546 in 2008 dollars. That means that from 1998 to 2008, Wisconsin public schools increased their per pupil spending by $4,245 in real terms yet did not add a single point to the reading scores of their eighth graders and still could lift only one-third of their eighth graders to at least a “proficient” level in reading.

The $10,791 that Wisconsin spent per pupil in its public elementary and secondary schools in fiscal year 2008 was more than any other state in the Midwest.

Neighboring Illinois spent $10,353 per student in 2008, Minnesota spent $10,048 per student; Iowa spent $9,520 per student. Among Midwest states, Nebraska was second to Wisconsin in per pupil spending in its public schools, spending $10,565 per student.

Of these nearby states, only Minnesota did slightly better teaching reading to its public school students. In 2009, 39 percent of eighth graders in Minnesota public schools earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average eighth grade reading score in the state was 270 out of 500.

In Illinois, only 32 percent of eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average eighth grade reading score was 265 out of 500. In Iowa, only 32 percent of eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average reading score was 265 out of 500. In Nebraska, only 35 percent of eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in their public schools, and the average reading score was 267 out of 500.

Nationwide, only 30 percent of public school eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average reading score on the NAEP test was 262 out of 500.

The National Assessment of Educational Progress explains its student rating system as follows: “Basic denotes partial mastery of prerequisite knowledge and skills that are fundamental for proficient work at each grade. Proficient represents solid academic performance. Students reaching this level have demonstrated competency over challenging subject matter. Advanced represents superior performance.”

In other words, despite the $10,791 that taxpayers were paying to educate students in Wisconsin public schools, two-thirds of eighth graders in those schools showed at best only a “partial mastery of prerequisite knowledge and skills that are fundamental for proficient work” at that grade level.

In fiscal 2008, the federal government provided $669.6 million in subsidies to the public schools in Wisconsin.

Yea Teachers!

[Libertytree]

I don't know about anybody else but if I don't show up for work I don't get paid. If I'm sick and I call in, I don't get paid, period. I can choose to use one of my 5 vacation days to offset the financial loss.

All these legislatures, teachers, union members, police, Fire Dept etc etc seem to have this idea that what they're demanding is an unalienable right as an American. These people need to get down from that high horse and realize they're crushing the very system that they expect to perpetually sustain them and truthfully I hope they succeed.

[osoab]

When Tax-Feeders Revolt (http://www.freedominourtime.blogspot.com/)


What would happen if tax victims, rather than tax-feeders, were to go on strike?
If Madison -- or the capital city of any of Leviathan's other 49 regional administrative units -- were over-run by thousands of productive people who decided that they would no longer consent to be plundered on behalf of unionized government employees, would their revolt be promoted by sympathetic media outlets, and supported by the president and his political machine?

Would self-described populist cable pundit Ed Schultz be there in person to confer an on-camera benediction to the rebels, describing them as people standing in "solidarity to fight for the middle class"? Would the state governor display restraint and forebearance in dealing with a malodorous mob that laid siege to the capitol for a week, if the throng were composed of people who withheld their taxes, rather government employees withholding their tax-subsidized services (such as they are)?

If this were to happen anywhere in the soyuz, every element of the Regime's punitive apparatus would be mobilized to put down the rebellion, hard and fast. Riot police and National Guard units would be deployed to beat and round up the rebels. I suspect that serious consideration would be made to the use of Predator drones to target those identified as "ringleaders" of the uprising.

If that scenario seems unlikely, consider the action taken by President Washington, at the behest of his despicable Treasury Secretary, to suppress the original taxpayer strike, the Whiskey Rebellion.

As James Madison sardonically pointed out, Alexander Hamilton's vision for America was that of a mercantilist state "woven together by tax collectors." His program envisioned creating an alliance between the central government and the bond-holding class, which would create a permanent constituency for ever-higher taxes and ever-increasing government. (In recent decades, unionized government employees have become a huge and powerful element of that constituency as well.)
Hamilton's scheme required the imposition of various excise taxes on the productive population. This in turn led to the rebellion of farmers in western Pennsylvania, who used whiskey as a form of currency. They quite sensibly refused to pay the tax. When Washington dispatched tax collectors to the region, the rebels helpfully outfitted them in the appropriate hot tar and goose feather ensemble.


much more at link.

[Libertytree]

When Tax-Feeders Revolt (http://www.freedominourtime.blogspot.com/)


What would happen if tax victims, rather than tax-feeders, were to go on strike?
If Madison -- or the capital city of any of Leviathan's other 49 regional administrative units -- were over-run by thousands of productive people who decided that they would no longer consent to be plundered on behalf of unionized government employees, would their revolt be promoted by sympathetic media outlets, and supported by the president and his political machine?

Would self-described populist cable pundit Ed Schultz be there in person to confer an on-camera benediction to the rebels, describing them as people standing in "solidarity to fight for the middle class"? Would the state governor display restraint and forebearance in dealing with a malodorous mob that laid siege to the capitol for a week, if the throng were composed of people who withheld their taxes, rather government employees withholding their tax-subsidized services (such as they are)?

If this were to happen anywhere in the soyuz, every element of the Regime's punitive apparatus would be mobilized to put down the rebellion, hard and fast. Riot police and National Guard units would be deployed to beat and round up the rebels. I suspect that serious consideration would be made to the use of Predator drones to target those identified as "ringleaders" of the uprising.

If that scenario seems unlikely, consider the action taken by President Washington, at the behest of his despicable Treasury Secretary, to suppress the original taxpayer strike, the Whiskey Rebellion.

As James Madison sardonically pointed out, Alexander Hamilton's vision for America was that of a mercantilist state "woven together by tax collectors." His program envisioned creating an alliance between the central government and the bond-holding class, which would create a permanent constituency for ever-higher taxes and ever-increasing government. (In recent decades, unionized government employees have become a huge and powerful element of that constituency as well.)
Hamilton's scheme required the imposition of various excise taxes on the productive population. This in turn led to the rebellion of farmers in western Pennsylvania, who used whiskey as a form of currency. They quite sensibly refused to pay the tax. When Washington dispatched tax collectors to the region, the rebels helpfully outfitted them in the appropriate hot tar and goose feather ensemble.


much more at link.



It's odd that you bring up the Whiskey Rebellion because I was thinking about Shays Rebellion and it seems to me the issues facing the states right now are a combination of the two rebellions. Certainly there are some differences but the root of these early conflicts have jointly manifested themselves in present day America.

As a side note....I've always found it nuts that the common folk at the time of Shays Rebellion were calling for a fiat money system so that credit could be expanded.

[Cobalt]

I don't know about anybody else but if I don't show up for work I don't get paid. If I'm sick and I call in, I don't get paid, period. I can choose to use one of my 5 vacation days to offset the financial loss.

All these legislatures, teachers, union members, police, Fire Dept etc etc seem to have this idea that what they're demanding is an unalienable right as an American. These people need to get down from that high horse and realize they're crushing the very system that they expect to perpetually sustain them and truthfully I hope they succeed.


I'm union and don't get paid if I don't work, don't have sick leave, don't have vacation pay, get paid double time for holidays if I work them but don't get paid if I don't work

[mightymanx]

I would say you are getting shafted on your union dues then.

[Cobalt]

I would say you are getting shafted on your union dues then.




My wage that I made and the pension I now collect says otherwise

[Book]

I don't know about anybody else but if I don't show up for work I don't get paid. If I'm sick and I call in, I don't get paid, period. I can choose to use one of my 5 vacation days to offset the financial loss.

All these legislatures, teachers, union members, police, Fire Dept etc etc seem to have this idea that what they're demanding is an unalienable right as an American. These people need to get down from that high horse and realize they're crushing the very system that they expect to perpetually sustain them and truthfully I hope they succeed.



For some time now I have been struck by the politicians always pandering to the "MIDDLE CLASS" and never once mentioning the "Lower Class". I imagine that there are few real middle class left in America...

:dunno

[Libertytree]

Good point Book, but where are the lines between poverty class, lower class, middle class? From my vantage point all of these people bitchin' about how bad they have it and all the woe is their pain can kiss my ass! They have it made in the shade yet still want more! And to even suggest that they shoulder even a slight increase in their own interest is some kind of cockeyed blasphemy!! In ways they are worse than the other millions of people who are sucking the system dry via direct handouts.

What they really want are tax increases for the rest while they maintain their standard of living.

[dys]

Good point Book, but where are the lines between poverty class, lower class, middle class? From my vantage point all of these people bitchin' about how bad they have it and all the woe is their pain can kiss my ass! They have it made in the shade yet still want more! And to even suggest that they shoulder even a slight increase in their own interest is some kind of cockeyed blasphemy!! In ways they are worse than the other millions of people who are sucking the system dry via direct handouts.

What they really want are tax increases for the rest while they maintain their standard of living.


They have every reason to bitch and so do you. Why? Because their lives have been stolen from them by the money changers. C'mom, man....stop blaming the victims for their predicament as that is exactly what they want you to do. Divide and conquer, esse... that is how they roll. You are smarter than this; and I know that you are.

dys

[Libertytree]

Good point Book, but where are the lines between poverty class, lower class, middle class? From my vantage point all of these people bitchin' about how bad they have it and all the woe is their pain can kiss my ass! They have it made in the shade yet still want more! And to even suggest that they shoulder even a slight increase in their own interest is some kind of cockeyed blasphemy!! In ways they are worse than the other millions of people who are sucking the system dry via direct handouts.

What they really want are tax increases for the rest while they maintain their standard of living.


They have every reason to bitch and so do you. Why? Because their lives have been stolen from them by the money changers. C'mom, man....stop blaming the victims for their predicament as that is exactly what they want you to do. Divide and conquer, esse... that is how they roll. You are smarter than this; and I know that you are.

dys


I do understand it Dys and I know it's the money changers that are directly to blame, you know this, I know this and all of us on this forum know this BUT.....they don't know or recognize this and are demanding that the taxpayer shoulder their current lifestyle. We, on the other hand are asking for nothing except to quit being robbed.

Yes, I do realize this is the epitome of class warfare and that it does play into their plan, it was inevitable and is unavoidable at this stage of the game. The house is crumbling from its very foundation, all I'm doing is pointing it out.

[dys]

I think what's going on is that a lot of the people you are referring to that want increased taxes to maintain their standard of living realize something is wrong but don't know exactly what. They are cognizant of the fact that they are working harder than ever for less, and they know this should not be; theoretically 'progress', technological innovation, productivity gains, et al should translate into a higher standard of living for them or at least the status quo. BUT they ignorant of the monetary system and are thus not able to blame the responsible parties, so instead they are simply fighting for what is best for them and their families. Nobody wants to see their loved ones suffer or go without, and most people have loved ones whether siblings, spouses, children, etc. Now I hear you, why should other people have to pay for their shit? Short answer: they shouldn't. However, I think their attitude is more a natural consequence of the theft and looting of their livelihoods than it is selfishness or entitlement mentality. The problem could (and should) be solved by the bankers forfeiting their fraudulently acquired wealth and distributing it amongst the victims. Of course, you and I both know that is not going to happen in the real world. One of the reasons that it won't happen is that the victims of the bankers tend to point fingers at the various rival groups that compete for the bankers table scraps. See where I am going with this? This group or that group wants to raise taxes= pointing the finger, then the taxpayers/us point the finger back at them calling them lazy and entitled, then they will say that we are greedy and heartless, etc etc ad nauseum. It's just playing their game.

dys







Good point Book, but where are the lines between poverty class, lower class, middle class? From my vantage point all of these people bitchin' about how bad they have it and all the woe is their pain can kiss my ass! They have it made in the shade yet still want more! And to even suggest that they shoulder even a slight increase in their own interest is some kind of cockeyed blasphemy!! In ways they are worse than the other millions of people who are sucking the system dry via direct handouts.

What they really want are tax increases for the rest while they maintain their standard of living.


They have every reason to bitch and so do you. Why? Because their lives have been stolen from them by the money changers. C'mom, man....stop blaming the victims for their predicament as that is exactly what they want you to do. Divide and conquer, esse... that is how they roll. You are smarter than this; and I know that you are.

dys


I do understand it Dys and I know it's the money changers that are directly to blame, you know this, I know this and all of us on this forum know this BUT.....they don't know or recognize this and are demanding that the taxpayer shoulder their current lifestyle. We, on the other hand are asking for nothing except to quit being robbed.

Yes, I do realize this is the epitome of class warfare and that it does play into their plan, it was inevitable and is unavoidable at this stage of the game. The house is crumbling from its very foundation, all I'm doing is pointing it out.

[Libertytree]

It's a vicious cycle of back and forth, from group to group. Their mentality has been shaped and fostered by the very ones that now sit and laugh at all of us squabbling amongst ourselves while the true culprits suck even more from all of us, or at least what's left for them to take.

We here at GSUS and all the others like us, in the minimal and the extreme, are anomalies that aren't dependent on the state or Fed for anything. We are the 40% that the system depends on to keep the others afloat......well, all the life boats have been used up and that's what they're pissed about. This fact is just now sinking into them and understandably their paradigm shift is freaking them out but the facts are the facts, they became too dependent and we didn't.

[dys]

It's a vicious cycle of back and forth, from group to group. Their mentality has been shaped and fostered by the very ones that now sit and laugh at all of us squabbling amongst ourselves while the true culprits suck even more from all of us, or at least what's left for them to take.

We here at GSUS and all the others like us, in the minimal and the extreme, are anomalies that aren't dependent on the state or Fed for anything. We are the 40% that the system depends on to keep the others afloat......well, all the life boats have been used up and that's what they're pissed about. This fact is just now sinking into them and understandably their paradigm shift is freaking them out but the facts are the facts, they became too dependent and we didn't.


Right...we are both preaching to the choir, lol. Wouldn't it be nice if these arguments could get some traction with our family and friends?

dys

[osoab]

WTF is this all about?

Pro-Union Website 'Defend Wisconsin' Blocked In Capitol (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/22/defend-wisconsin-website-blocked_n_826724.html)


A website being used to help organize protests against Gov. Scott Walker in Wisconsin has been blocked from the Capitol Building in Madison, according to reports.

The site, http://www.defendwisconsin.org/, was inaccessible from the building on Monday and into Tuesday morning, CNN reported.

According to ThinkProgress:
If you are in the Capitol attempting to access the internet from a free wifi connection labeled “guest,” you cannot access the site defendwisconsin.org. The site has been used to provide updates on what is happening, where you can volunteer, and where supplies and goods are needed to support protesters. Administrators of the website were notified on Monday that the page is being blocked

Wisconsin Democrats were quick to blame Walker and Republican lawmakers for causing the outage. Wisconsin Democratic Party press secretary Graeme Zielinski said: "In a direct assault on the First Amendment, Scott Walker's administration is blocking access in the Wisconsin Capitol to opposition websites."

State Department of Administration spokeswoman Carla Vigue said in response to the allegations, "DOA's security software automatically blocked the site, as it does all new websites."

But according to Michael Tate, chairman of the Democratic Party of Website, the DOA explanation is not sufficient, as the site had been working previously but has been blocked in the Capitol Building since Friday.

Tate said of the development, "(Apparently Governor Walker) feels comfortable blocking the First Amendment right of protesters at the exact time that they are exercising their First Amendment right. This is undemocratic and this is un-American."

[Libertytree]

Dys, I think me and you are preachin' to the preacher, lol.

Preachin' to our friends, families and the rest seems to be falling on mostly deaf ears and frankly it's become tiresome and mostly unproductive, a waste of breath at the very least. It would be nice if even a scant few could reason it all out but the futility of it is more than somewhat depressing. It all comes down to the old adage that you can lead the horse to water but ya can't make it drink.

[lapis]

Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant!

Score one for the PTB, to yet again successfully pit the liberals against the conservatives on an issue that actually has very little to do with the unions!

This bill, as osoab (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/wisconsin-unions-vs-scott-walker-drama-update/msg188583/#msg188583) pointed out in a previous post, is more about "allowing the Koch Brothers (the money behind the Tea "Party") to buy or contract to operate state−owned heating, cooling, and power plants in Wisconsin without a solicitation of bids."

Hah, you've just got to hand it to these deviates! They really are old pros at dividing the country.

When, oh when?! Will we stop dancing to their tune like stringed marionettes?

************************************

The Koch Brothers' End Game in Wisconsin (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/21/947947/-The-Koch-Brothers-End-Game-in-Wisconsin)

Oh my, we got ourselves quite a tail-wagging going on in Wisconsin. You are thinking, what? This is about collective bargaining and workers' rights!

Bullshit. You are being wagged.

As always this has to do with money, and the union "compromise" coming down the pipe was set up to be the "booby" prize while the Koch Brothers get their "booty" prize. This is all being well-orchestrated with an end game that has absolutely nothing to do with unions.

As I said in comments before, to much bewilderment, this is about power plants and a vertical monopoly the Kock Brothers have their eye on in Wisconsin.

So in short:
1) Koch Brothers get their puppet Governor Walker in power
2) Governor Walker gins up a crisis
3) Democrats and Progressives take the bait and counter-protest on collective bargaining
4) Governor Walker will compromise on collective bargaining if the rest of the budget is passed as is
5) Bill passes, with trojan horse give-a-way to the Koch Brothers nested in
6) Koch Brothers will buy Wisconsin state-owned power plants for pennies on the dollar in closed unsolicitated bids for which there will be no oversight
7) Koch Brothers get the best vertical monopoly in a generation

First off, before we talk about how this going to play out, because I have seen this same game tape, let's talk about why the Koch Brothers would have made Governor Walker their Manchurian Candidate.

When you are calling bullshit on such a grand scale as I, it takes extraordinary evidence.

So let's first state that the Koch Brothers placed their puppet Walker into power.

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker: Funded by the Koch Bros.
By Andy Kroll, Mother Jones
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/wisconsin-scott-walker-koch-brothers

According to Wisconsin campaign finance filings, Walker's gubernatorial campaign received $43,000 from the Koch Industries PAC during the 2010 election. That donation was his campaign's second-highest, behind $43,125 in contributions from housing and realtor groups in Wisconsin. The Koch's PAC also helped Walker via a familiar and much-used politicial maneuver designed to allow donors to skirt campaign finance limits. The PAC gave $1 million to the Republican Governors Association, which in turn spent $65,000 on independent expenditures to support Walker. The RGA also spent a whopping $3.4 million on TV ads and mailers attacking Walker's opponent, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett. Walker ended up beating Barrett by 5 points. The Koch money, no doubt, helped greatly.

Thanks to Kochs' poodles on the Supreme Court, this sort of activity is now legal. Poor Tom DeLay, bet he feels stupid for bribing the wrong people. Anyway, through the use of propaganda and corporate influence, the Kochs' money got their pigeon into the Governor's office.

Now here is where it gets tricky. Right now everyone thinks this is about collective bargaining and the rights of the worker, especially to assemble.

This is what these two Kochs want you to think. See, they are ginning up a great big whole controversy to hide something deep in the bill that they think no one will notice.

See, Governor Walker is going to back down on collective bargaining at the end of the day, if the Democrats will just "compromise" and pass the rest of the budget as is. The Democratic Party will view it as a success in policy and Progressives the land over will be doing a victory dance.

The Kochs will be laughing at you all, because they just played y'all like a fiddle.

See, when you think you won, this will get passed:

State of Wisconsin
SENATE BILL 11

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/JR1SB-11.pdf

Google Quick View of http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/JR1SB-11.pdf&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESg_-8S4nJy1wdVtSXPifvtqoK0qYIX3QIlLBjfmF3DCStDLLkW4SyU 2nE7ZzbcH6-6Kr68EcaJtVBPJnjeNmoHSilshxOmaS4zX-1DSEWe8YK-_sK-Rc1k9fkZMe8PUnd3uEJRi&sig=AHIEtbRM0fgayS-yCr_rhGR0bo_RNfSGuQ] (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:X1ujH_yii54J:legis.wisconsin.gov/JR1SB-11.pdf+:


Bottom of Page 23:

SECTION 44. 16.896 of the statutes is created to read:
16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling,
and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the

department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may

contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without

solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best

interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or

certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to

purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is

considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification

of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).

There are two big whoppers in this section, which is passing through the zeitgeist like ships in the night.

It will allow the Koch Brothers to buy or contract to operate state−owned heating, cooling, and power plants in Wisconsin without a solicitation of bids.

This is what it is about at the end of the day, and their puppet, Governor Walker, is ready to sell the Koch Brothers the state-owned utility system of Wisconsin for pennies on the dollar for his paymasters.

Governor Walker has intentionally muddied the waters concerning unions to muddy waters hoping no one will see the wholescale give-a-way of the state-owned public infrastructure to private interests.

Not only that, they are trying to redefine "public interest"! Who gets to decide? Not the public, Governor Walker by fiat!

Now combine that with the Koch Brothers' existing operations in Wisconsin:

[url]http://www.kochind.com/factsSheets/WisconsinFacts.aspx

# Flint Hills Resources, LLC, through its subsidiaries, is a leading refining and chemicals company. Its subsidiaries market products such as gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, ethanol, olefins, polymers and intermediate chemicals, as well as base oils and asphalt. A subsidiary distributes refined fuel through its strategically located pipelines and terminals in Junction City, Waupun, Madison and Milwaukee. Another subsidiary manufactures asphalt that is distributed to terminals in Green Bay and Stevens Point.

# Koch Pipeline Company, L.P. operates a pipeline system that crosses Wisconsin, part of the nearly 4,000 miles of pipelines owned or operated by the company.

# The C. Reiss Coal Company is a leading supplier of coal used to generate power. The company has locations in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan.

With an ownership of resources, distribution and generation of energy, the Koch Brothers will have a vertical monopoly that would make even Rockefeller blush!

And just imagine the profits! They investment in Walker is gonna pay out big time.

Which was the plan all along.

Now we know the end game, who is going to block it?

[osoab]

On prank call, Wis. governor discusses strategy (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110223/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions)


By RYAN J. FOLEY, Associated Press Ryan J. Foley, Associated Press – Wed Feb 23, 6:32 pm ET
MADISON, Wis. – On a prank call that quickly spread across the Internet, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker was duped into discussing his strategy to cripple public employee unions, promising never to give in and joking that he would use a baseball bat in his office to go after political opponents.

Walker believed the caller was a conservative billionaire named David Koch, but it was actually the editor of a liberal online newspaper. The two talked for at least 20 minutes — a conversation in which the governor described several potential ways to pressure Democrats to return to the Statehouse and revealed that his supporters had considered secretly planting people in pro-union protest crowds to stir up trouble.

[Related: What is a right-to-work law?]

The call, which surfaced Wednesday, also showed Walker's cozy relationship with two billionaire brothers who have poured millions of dollars into conservative political causes, including Walker's campaign last year.

Walker compared his stand to that taken by President Ronald Reagan when he fired the nation's air-traffic controllers during a labor dispute in 1981.

"That was the first crack in the Berlin Wall and led to the fall of the Soviets," Walker said on the recording.

The audio was posted by the Buffalo Beast, a left-leaning website based in Buffalo, N.Y., and quickly went viral.

Ian Murphy told The Associated Press he carried out the prank to show how candidly Walker would speak with Koch even though, according to Democrats, he refuses to return their calls.

Murphy said he arranged the call Tuesday after speaking with two Walker aides, including the governor's chief of staff. He placed the call using Skype and recorded it.

Walker spokesman Cullen Werwie confirmed that it was Walker's voice on the call. At a news conference, Walker acknowledged being deceived but stuck to his message that the union changes were needed to balance Wisconsin's budget.

"I'm not going to let one prank phone call be a distraction from the job we have to do," Walker said. "The things I said are the things I've said publicly all the time."

[Related: History of stalling tactics in politics]

On the call, the governor said he was ratcheting up the pressure on Senate Democrats to return to the Capitol a week after they fled to block the legislation. He said he supported a move to require them to come to the Capitol to pick up their paychecks rather than have the money deposited directly.

He also floated an idea to lure Democratic senators back to the Capitol for negotiations and then have the Senate quickly pass the bill while they are in talks.

Walker said aides were reviewing whether the GOP could hold a vote if Democrats were not physically in the Senate chamber but elsewhere in the building. At the news conference, he insisted that idea was not a trick but an effort to get Democrats back to work.

Democrats seized on Walker's recorded comments as evidence that the governor plans to go beyond budget cuts to crushing unions.

"This isn't about balancing the budget. This is about a political war," Rep. Jon Richards of Milwaukee yelled Wednesday on the floor of the state Assembly.

The governor's plan would strip most public employees of their collective bargaining rights and force them to pay more for their health care and retirement benefits. Unions could not collect mandatory dues and would be forced to conduct annual votes of their members to stay in existence.

[Related: What is a labor union?]

The proposal has set off more than a week of protests at the Capitol.

The GOP-controlled state Assembly began debating the bill Tuesday and was still hearing dozens of Democratic amendments nearly 24 hours later before taking a break. Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald said he expected to take a vote on the bill by the end of the day.

On the call, Walker said he expected the anti-union movement to spread across the country and he had spoken with the governors of Ohio and Nevada. The man pretending to be Koch seemed to agree, telling Walker, "You're the first domino."

"Yep, this is our moment," Walker responded.

The remarks showed Walker's private relationship with David Koch. He and his brother, Charles, own Koch Industries Inc., which is the largest privately-owned company in America and has significant operations in Wisconsin.

Its political action committee gave $43,000 to Walker's campaign, and David Koch gave $1 million to the Republican Governors' Association, which funded ads attacking Walker's opponent in last year's election.

[Related: Comparison of state anti-union bills]

The Kochs also give millions to support Americans For Prosperity, a conservative business group that launched a $320,000 television ad campaign in favor of Walker's legislation Wednesday. When the caller asked how he could help, Walker suggested outside groups could try to influence people to call their lawmakers and spread the message that his proposal is necessary.

On the recording, after Walker said he would be willing to meet with Democratic leaders, the caller said he should bring a baseball bat to negotiations.

Walker laughed and responded that he had "a slugger with my name on it."

The caller suggested he was thinking about "planting some troublemakers" among the protesters, and Walker said his administration had thought about doing that, too, but decided against it. Walker said the protests eventually would die because the media would stop covering them.

Walker told reporters the plan to bring in outside agitators was one of many ideas his supporters and aides have raised that were dismissed.
At the end of the call, the prankster says: "I'll tell you what, Scott, once you crush these bastards, I'll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time."

"All right, that would be outstanding," Walker replies, adding that the standoff is "all about getting our freedoms back."


The caller responds: "Absolutely. And you know, we have a little bit of vested interest as well" and laughs.

Walker's budget bill also allows his administration to sell power plants that heat and cool state buildings to private companies without any bids.

Critics have seized on that provision, saying they are convinced the Koch brothers' business interests would be able to buy power plants on the cheap, and then profit by running them and driving up the price of energy.

Koch Industries has denied any interest in buying the plants. Republicans tried to privatize Wisconsin's power plants in 2005, but the plan was vetoed by Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle.

Immediately after taking office, Walker also pushed for legislation that would limit damage awards in lawsuits against many businesses.

Koch Industries lobbied for the bill, and Walker signed it into law last month. Walker is also seeking passage for another Koch Industries-backed bill to weaken state regulations by giving him the power to approve all rules proposed by agencies, a proposal that is moving quickly through the Legislature.

Koch Industries recently opened a lobbying office a block from the Capitol. Seven lobbyists have registered in Wisconsin to lobby for various Koch Industries companies.

Even before recordings of the call surfaced, the government watchdog group Common Cause in Wisconsin released a statement saying Walker's agenda matched with that of Koch Industries.

"Koch Industries and other corporate citizens have legitimate interests in Wisconsin, but their demonstrated willingness to push large amounts of money into state politics has given them a dangerously outsized voice," said Bob Edgar, the group's national president. That voice, he said, is "now demanding a return on its investments."

[Horn]

Every once in a while, something pops up to remind us all how dumb the human race really is.

At least it is humbling.

[lapis]

I know, I know! It's so easy for "them" to push our buttons and herd us onto whatever cliff they want us to fall off of. You've got to hand it to them, they know human nature.

[osoab]

Every once in a while, something pops up to remind us all how dumb the human race really is.

At least it is humbling.


Every once in a while? What area do you live in Horn where there are a majority of sane people?

[Libertytree]

Every once in a while, something pops up to remind us all how dumb the human race really is.

At least it is humbling.


Every once in a while? What area do you live in Horn where there are a majority of sane people?


No shit!! I see it everyday except for "my" weekends where I recluse myself from the rest of humanity. The other 5 days are a clusterfuck in motion.

[messianicdruid]

Obama Sighting: Wisconsin?

"And understand this: If American workers are being denied their right to organize and collectively bargain when I’m in the White House, I will put on a comfortable pair of shoes myself, I’ll will walk on that picket line with you as President of the United States of America. Because workers deserve to know that somebody is standing in their corner." Senator Obama 2007

[k-os]

Obama Sighting: Wisconsin?

"And understand this: If American workers are being denied their right to organize and collectively bargain when I’m in the White House, I will put on a comfortable pair of shoes myself, I’ll will walk on that picket line with you as President of the United States of America. Because workers deserve to know that somebody is standing in their corner." Senator Obama 2007


One more broken promise. I'd love to see him walking in that picket line though. ;)

[osoab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Na1rj5kQyg&feature=player_embedded

[lapis]

Ha ha! Now let them make a similar video for the Wisconsin firefighters and policemen.

[lapis]

Here's another good post from the DailyKos about the bill. I haven't gone on the site in years, but there sure have been some good analyses of this situation.

The Con Is On
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/24/949401/-The-Con-Is-On

The key to a good con is misdirection. Convincing a mark to close out his bank account, liquidate all his property, and borrow, steal, or embezzle in hopes of realizing a big score requires getting him to believe in something for nothing. Getting him to look over there—while you fleece him, over here.

This is not just simply cheating someone. This is getting a person to reach into his own pocket and beg you to take his money. A good confidence artist believes the mark has it coming for being stupid.

You’ve read a lot about how what's going on in Wisconsin is not local. It’s about finishing the long national looting begun in 2008. It's true. The Big Con is on.

It's on when Wisconsin’s governor denies there’s anything nefarious about a clause in his union-busting bill allowing public power plants to be put up for sale, without bid, notification, review, or disclosure of fair market value.

Yet at the same time a local energy group—apparently Alliant Energy (http://www.thinkenergygroup.com/think.nsf/J/84239), a corporation that made direct contributions to Governor Walker’s campaign--is soliciting resumes, seeking “experienced Plant Managers for multiple power plants located in Wisconsin.”

Look over there! Unions! Pensions! Deficits!

It's on when D.C. floats a proposal to allow banks to “reduce the loan balances of troubled borrowers who owe more than their homes are worth.”

Look at that! Bad loans! Troubled borrowers!

The con is on.

Because the proposal also says this:


“The cost of those writedowns won’t be borne by investors who purchased mortgage-backed securities.”

No, those poor unfortunates will be held blameless.

Who are they? The very Wall Street banks that, as Matt Taibbi points out (http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/2/22/matt_taibbi_why_isnt_wall_street_in_jail),


when they flooded the market with these phony securities…were smart enough to realize that they were eventually going to blow, so they started betting against them. They went to companies like AIG, and they took out trillions of dollars of credit default swaps and pseudo-insurance policies on these mortgages. The bailout wasn’t really to pay off real losses in these mortgages. It was really to pay off the bets on these mortgages. So, not only did they flood the market with a trillion dollars of defective merchandise, they got the United States taxpayer to pony up $5, $6, $7 trillion worth of bailout money to pay off their bets on all this stuff.

Look! Crisis! Bailouts!

With Wall Street off the hook, who will bear the burden for these massive losses?

The investors who weren’t banks. The ones the banks convinced to buy the MBS’s.

Like pension funds.

Like California’s pension fund, which lost $1 billion from investments that crashed, and is suing Moody’s, S&P, etc. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/business/21ratings.html), who blessed those investments with AAA gold-standard ratings on the strength of claims by the very banks whose securities they were!


A number of internal e-mail messages from the companies, suggest[ed] that employees were aware they were giving their blessing to bonds that were all but doomed. In one of those messages, an S.& P. analyst said that a deal “could be structured by cows and we’d rate it.”

Or like Ohio’s pension fund, which lost $457 million, and is also suing.

But the con is on.

It's on when Ohio Governor John Kasich says it's just a coincidence, that in 2002, while he was a Lehman Brothers rep, he lobbied Ohio’s pension fund to invest in Lehman Brothers—specifically, mortgage-backed securities. It's on when in a further coincidence, Lehman is pushing toxic investments to the Ohio pension system as late as August 25th, 2008 - only 21 days before Lehman collapsed.

It's on when the former Lehman executives, the former AIG execs, the regulators who looked the other way in order to grease their later entry though the revolving door, are all doing quite well with the money they obtained by fraud.

It's on when they're doing well at the expense of these folks (http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2011/02/23/hamp-ii-the-20-billion-get-out-of-jail-free-card/):


[The] over a quarter of mortgage holders [who] are underwater on their homes. A big chunk of these people were sold houses at artificially inflated prices, courtesy of the bank and captured appraisers.

These little cheated folks are cast as profligate, immoral wastrels, forced to take pay cuts, take benefit cuts, surrender their bargaining rights. Because pensions caused the problem.

Look! Pensions! Benefits that we pay for!


Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin' s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers….Because the "contributions" consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash.

But not before the bankers get another slice of pie (http://www.tax.com/taxcom/taxblog.nsf/Permalink/UBEN-8EDJYS?OpenDocument):


The average Wisconsin pension is $24,500 a year, which is hardly lavish. But what is stunning is that 15% of the money contributed to the fund each year is going to Wall Street in fees


The con succeeds when the public believes these are just coincidences. When they find it beyond belief that rich and famous men, pillars of the community, could be involved in something so…criminal. Or that the fix is in for them. Or in against us. When they go on voting Republican, and beating their chest about the uniquely just place that is America.

Big-time confidence games are in reality only carefully rehearsed plays in which every member of the cast except the mark knows his part perfectly.
–David Maurer, The Big Con (http://www.amazon.com/Big-Story-Confidence-Man/dp/0385495382)

[lapis]

These are a couple of long articles that were cited in the DK one I posted that are worth a look:

Koch Denies Interest in No-Bid Deals; Opens New Lobby Shop
http://www.prwatch.org/news/2011/02/10080/koch-denies-interest-no-bid-deals-opens-new-lobby-shop

Really Bad Reporting in Wisconsin: Who 'Contributes' to Public Workers' Pensions?
http://www.tax.com/taxcom/taxblog.nsf/Permalink/UBEN-8EDJYS?OpenDocument

[Awoke]

I can't be bothered to go through and bold out the standout parts, but here is an article.




If you haven’t been following the debate in Wisconsin over their new governor Scott Walker’s proposal to end collective bargaining rights for public sector workers, you should.

The implications will have a major impact on the next few years in Canada. Here is why:

1. Wisconsin creates the future. Again and again, ideas from Wisconsin have become common across the continent.

The anti-slavery Republican Party was born in Wisconsin. Direct primary elections, unemployment benefits and workers compensation were first instituted there. The progressive income tax – where the rich pay proportionally more than the poor – was developed in Wisconsin. The anti-communist witch hunts of the 1950s were fuelled by Wisconsin Senator Joe McCarthy. It was a hotbed of education reforms. Most recently, Governor Tommy Thompson’s welfare reforms were the direct source of the Ontario Works program from the 1990s, championed by Mike Harris.

This state has proven time and again to be the proving ground of tomorrow’s legislation.

2. It’s already spreading. There is no doubt that the current battle in Wisconsin is rapidly spreading around states with new Republican governors or house majorities.

Ohio is just the most recent state to table a bill to end collective bargaining rights for public sector workers. Indiana recently did the same. Michigan is looking at taxing pension income for the first time.

Many states in the Deep South are already “right-to-work,” which means no employer can be a closed shop where you have to join a union. Some of those states are considering going even further with greater restrictions on union activity.

3. Proponents are organized and well-financed. The New York Times recently broke the story that the Wisconsin legislation, and the governor, are strongly backed by the ultra-conservative Koch brothers. They are the financial muscle behind Americans for Prosperity, and were among the biggest contributors to Gov. Walker’s campaign.

The Tea Party is putting a lot of its support behind this legislation as well, lending numbers to rallies in support of the bill.

Proponents were quick to launch extensive advertising in support of the legislation In fact, Democrat lawmakers in Wisconsin complain that they first heard about the bill from radio ads run by Washington pressure groups, rather than from the Legislature.

4. Unions are united in opposition. The principle targets of this bill are teachers, the largest public sector union in Wisconsin. Police and firefighters have been explicitly exempted from the bill.

Curiously, both the firefighters and almost all the police unions are staunchly opposed however. In fact, the police union had to go so far as to state that they would actually continue to follow direction from elected officials.

Both sides have decided to make Wisconsin their battleground.

5. The issue is power. Gov. Walker says the state is broke, and this is a critical step to fixing it. That’s actually completely wrong. The unions have already agreed to significant pay cuts and benefits (under duress).

The unions says this is an assault on the middle class. That case is hard to make. For instance, federal union members make more than their private sector counterparts in most occupations.

Both sides are lying about what is really at play, because the truth is it’s about naked power.

For the right, this is about reasserting the power of elected officials and the people to decide public policy. Basically, that individuals will be free from the power of the state. For the left, it is about preserving labour union power, the only real counter-balance to the power of corporations and the wealthy. Basically, that individuals will be free from the power of the elite.

Which side you are on really comes down to who you fear more: big government or big business.

* * * * * * *

We saw a foreshadow of this battle in the ill-fated federal Economic Statement back in 2008. While the ending of subsidies for political parties got the attention, one of the unexpected proposals in the statement was ending the ability of federal civil servants to strike until 2011.

In fact, the government was forced to retract the strike-banning provisions, along with the end of the subsidy, as part of its retreat in December 2008.

But it is likely that the issue with return both federally and provincially in the near future.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/andrew-steele/the-end-of-unions/article1918079/

[chad]

awoke, if what wisconsin does filters down to everyone else, then you are screwed on such a monumental level that you can't even begin to comprehend it.

[lapis]

‘Anonymous’ targets the brothers Koch, claiming attempts ‘to usurp American Democracy’ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/27/anonymous-targets-the-brothers-koch-claiming-attempts-to-usurp-american-democracy/)


http://www.rawstory.com/rs//wp-content/uploads/2011/02/georgiapacificlogo2.jpg
[BOYCOTT!]

The decentralized protest group "Anonymous" has a new target: no, it's not a middle eastern dictator, a major bank or even a bit player in the military-industrial complex.

It's none other than tea party financiers Charles and David Koch, who were being targeted, an open letter stated, for their attempts "to usurp American Democracy."

"Koch Industries, and oligarchs like them, have most recently started to manipulate the political agenda in Wisconsin," an announcement posted to anonnews.org (http://www.anonnews.org/?p=press&a=item&i=585) declared.

"Governor Walker's union-busting budget plan contains a clause that went nearly un-noticed. This clause would allow the sale of publicly owned utility plants in Wisconsin to private parties (specifically, Koch Industries) at any price, no matter how low, without a public bidding process," they explained. "The Koch's have helped to fuel the unrest in Wisconsin and the drive behind the bill to eliminate the collective bargaining power of unions in a bid to gain a monopoly over the state's power supplies.

The group, which was responsible for taking MasterCard Worldwide offline for an entire day (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/08/avenging-wikileaks-anonymous-hackers-takes-mastercard-site/) -- along with numerous other organizations that plotted against secrets outlet WikiLeaks -- said it would now be "actively seeking vulnerabilities" in Koch industries.

"In a world where corporate money has become the lifeblood of political influence, the labor unions are one of the few ways citizens have to fight against corporate greed," the release added. "Anonymous cannot ignore the plight of the citizen-workers of Wisconsin, or the opportunity to fight for the people in America's broken political system. For these reasons, we feel that the Koch brothers threaten the United States democratic system and, by extension, all freedom-loving individuals everywhere."

They added that if one would like to withdraw their unknowing support for the brothers Koch, an array of products would need to be boycotted -- and not just by Americans, but people world-wide.

"Anonymous hears the voice of the downtrodden American people, whose rights and liberties are being systematically removed one by one, even when their own government refuses to listen or worse - is complicit in these attacks," they continued. "We are actively seeking vulnerabilities, but in the mean time we are calling for all supporters of true Democracy, and Freedom of The People, to boycott all Koch Industries' paper products. We welcome unions across the globe to join us in this boycott to show that you will not allow big business to dictate your freedom."

In the US, those products were listed as Vanity Fair, Quilted Northern, Angel Soft, Sparkle, Brawney, Mardi Gras and Dixie. For Europe, they were Demak'Up, Kitten Soft, Lotus / Lotus Soft, Tenderly, Nouvelle Soft, Okay Kitchen Towels, Colhogar, Delica, Inversoft and Tutto.

All were produced by the "Georgia-Pacific" company, and all bear the logo seen above.

The Koch's, who've seen their libertarian cause raised to a full-blown rightwing boogyman status, were principle financiers of Wisconsin's Republican Governor, Scott Walker (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/19/billionaire-oil-tycoons-financed-wisconsins-anti-union-governor-election-campaign/).

Among his first items of business as the state's governor was attempting to crush public worker unions by making it illegal for them to organize into a union. And while he'd been saying throughout the affair that this was not an attempt to bust unions, a front group for the Koch brothers had one of its spokesmen at this year's Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), who plainly stated that their goal was to take the unions out "at the knees. (http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/02/koch-front-group-advocated-taking-down-unions/)"

Walker was humiliated last week by a gonzo journalist with The Buffalo Beast, who managed to get him on the phone by pretending to be David Koch (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/23/buffalo-beast-allegedly-tricks-wisc-gov-walker-into-taking-call-from-fake-david-koch/). During the conversation, the governor admitted to considering sending agent provocateurs into the throngs of protesters to try and stir up trouble. He also appeared to accept an offer for a flight to California, where he was to be shown "a good time" by the tea party financier.

"Anonymous" was calling their latest project "#OpWisconsin". They asked that supporters begin boycotting the Koch paper products right away.

[Buddha]

I'd type something, but this about sums it up.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_oNfVQ-7M-VQ/THFTY65XDgI/AAAAAAAAAP4/ohnlB1ZUoXo/s1600/march_of_tyranny.jpg

[dys]

Both of these threads definitively refute the excuse of "we don't have the money."
http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/documentary-the-corporation-nation/
http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/the-cafr-(comprehensive-annual-financial-report)-thread/msg192206/#msg192206

These threads explain that every corporation whether a state, munipality, town, city, township, etc, must file what's known as a comprehensive annual report. These comprehensive annual reports contain the true financial position of these entities; which is not broke but in fact filthy rich. These corporations are heavily vested in the markets, which have been going up for years and years, and their profits are tax free. As soon as I can get this info 100% verified, I'm getting it over to Mish. If he refuses to acknowledge it or dismisses it (more likely when), that's the smoking gun that proves that he is controlled op; and he goes the way of Skyvike, Ron Paul, Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, etc.

dys

[Cobalt]

Just heard on the radio a judge has issued a restraining order barring Walker from closing the capitol to the public

[lapis]

Despite it all, I'm not surprised that GSUSers are not exactly jumping on the bandwagon to boycott an evil company that also makes toilet paper. ;)

[chad]

the true hilarity of this whole debacle is the focus on "they're trying to take away our bargaining rights."

um, not they're not. it's just that if you bargain anything above CPI, you have to take it to a referendum and have the people of the state agree to it as well.

a true referendum involving the citizens.

they don't want that though, they want bargaining with paid off politicians behind closed doors.

if the people of the state are really so behind the union movement, then this shouldn't be a problem should it? i mean, in referendum, they'd all just get behind the union and approve everything, right?

[lapis]

Wisconsin Capitol illegally closed to newcomers (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/02/28/wisconsin-capitol-il.html)

It's illegal to block public access to the Wisconsin State Capitol Building (See Article I, §4), but it appears that Governor Scott Walker is attempting to do that, anyway. Today, the Capitol has been closed to any protesters who didn't spend last night inside. Authorities say they won't let any new protesters in until everyone left inside leaves. When Rep. Kelda Helen Roys refused to show ID, she wasn't allowed in, either. The Governor is giving a speech tonight on his budget proposals, and I'm certain that has absolutely nothing to do with the timing of this lockdown.

Of course not!

[chad]

Wisconsin Capitol illegally closed to newcomers (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/02/28/wisconsin-capitol-il.html)

It's illegal to block public access to the Wisconsin State Capitol Building (See Article I, §4), but it appears that Governor Scott Walker is attempting to do that, anyway. Today, the Capitol has been closed to any protesters who didn't spend last night inside. Authorities say they won't let any new protesters in until everyone left inside leaves. When Rep. Kelda Helen Roys refused to show ID, she wasn't allowed in, either. The Governor is giving a speech tonight on his budget proposals, and I'm certain that has absolutely nothing to do with the timing of this lockdown.

Of course not!


wrong.

The legislature cannot prohibit an individual from entering the capitol or its grounds. 59 Atty. Gen. 8.

scott walker is not the legislature.

i've been hearing this all day, it's simply not true. scott walker is not the wisconsin legislature.

[lapis]

So it's just a coincidence that the Capitol is being closed the day that he's giving a speech, right? :oo-->

Well good luck with that, as "Judge Orders Wisconsin Capitol Re-Opened." (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/judge-orders-wisconsin-capitol-re-opened.php)

[chad]

So it's just a coincidence that the Capitol is being closed the day that he's giving a speech, right? :oo-->

Well good luck with that, as "Judge Orders Wisconsin Capitol Re-Opened." (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/judge-orders-wisconsin-capitol-re-opened.php)



no, i totally agree with you, it's just that i've been listening to npr talk about this all day, and it simply isn't true. i agree he's being a douche bag, but he's not violating any law. the law says the legislature can't do it, not the governor, and the legislature didn't do it, the governor did.

[JohnQPublic]

The answer is not more spending. The answer is not austerity. There is no answer. This son of a b*tch is going down in flames and we are all screwed. The politicians will play there games, as will the unions so they can all squeeze the last worthless penny out, and in the end, it won't amount to a hill of beans (except for the few politicians who manage to steal enough to escape to a private island or something).

The unions are not right. The politicians are not right. The people marching are not wrong.

[dys]

The answer is not more spending. The answer is not austerity. There is no answer. This son of a b*tch is going down in flames and we are all screwed. The politicians will play there games, as will the unions so they can all squeeze the last worthless penny out, and in the end, it won't amount to a hill of beans (except for the few politicians who manage to steal enough to escape to a private island or something).

The unions are not right. The politicians are not right. The people marching are not wrong.


I'm going to respectfully disagree. There is an answer, but it's not an answer that is practically applicable. The answer is to get the money back from the people that stole it. Some will say this is just a semantic argument, but it's not. The reason: the myth of scarcity.

dys

[JohnQPublic]

The answer is not more spending. The answer is not austerity. There is no answer. This son of a b*tch is going down in flames and we are all screwed. The politicians will play there games, as will the unions so they can all squeeze the last worthless penny out, and in the end, it won't amount to a hill of beans (except for the few politicians who manage to steal enough to escape to a private island or something).

The unions are not right. The politicians are not right. The people marching are not wrong.


I'm going to respectfully disagree. There is an answer, but it's not an answer that is practically applicable. The answer is to get the money back from the people that stole it. Some will say this is just a semantic argument, but it's not. The reason: the myth of scarcity.

dys


That could happen after the collapse. It might be averted, but I think it is too late now.

[mightymanx]

The answer is not more spending. The answer is not austerity. There is no answer. This son of a b*tch is going down in flames and we are all screwed. The politicians will play there games, as will the unions so they can all squeeze the last worthless penny out, and in the end, it won't amount to a hill of beans (except for the few politicians who manage to steal enough to escape to a private island or something).

The unions are not right. The politicians are not right. The people marching are not wrong.


I'm going to respectfully disagree. There is an answer, but it's not an answer that is practically applicable. The answer is to get the money back from the people that stole it. Some will say this is just a anti-semantic argument, but it's not. The reason: the myth of scarcity.

dys


Fixec it for you ;D

[Horn]

The answer is not more spending. The answer is not austerity. There is no answer. This son of a b*tch is going down in flames and we are all screwed.

The only bright light in all of this is, that more people are starting to think like me. ;D

[mightymanx]

The answer is not more spending. The answer is not austerity. There is no answer. This son of a b*tch is going down in flames and we are all screwed.

The only bright light in all of this is, that more people are starting to think like me. ;D




Aww hell... isn't group think what started this poop storm?

[lapis]

Wisconsin’s Real Financial Situation Explained
http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/wisconsins-real-financial-situation-explained/

This is from Clint Richardson's blog (the creator of The Corporation Nation (http://thecorporationnation.com/) film).

************************************************** ****************************8

The following is a list of totals reported in the Wisconsin State Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR), fiscal year ending June 30, 2010.

The individual funds and investments that make up these totals are listed in detail below these fund “totals”.

All of this is sourced from the state’s 2010 CAFR, which can be downloaded at the state governments website, here: http://www.doa.state.wi.us/subcategory.asp?linksubcatid=374&locid=3

It may also be viewed online here: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/23131666/Wisconsin-Comprehensive-Annual-Financial-Report

Page numbers are listed, so you can follow along in the CAFR for verification, and my comments are in red.

And now, the answer to the question… Is the State of Wisconsin bankrupt?

First, let’s have a look at what Wisconsin has in its investment funds, which is not being reported to the taxpayers of the state or of America…

(See below for explanation)

TOTAL PRIMARY GOVERNMENT “VARIOUS FUNDS”
-> $4,403,000,000
TOTAL UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN SYSTEM (UW) FUND
-> $365,800,000
TOTAL WISCONSIN HOUSING AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY FUND
-> $1,023,000,000
TOTAL UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN AND CLINICCS AUTHORITY FUND
-> $127,400,000
TOTAL STATE FAIR PARK EXPOSITION CENTER INC FUND
-> $200,000
TOTAL WISCONSIN HEALTH CARE LIABILITY INSURANCE PLAN (WHCLIP) FUND
-> $72,000,000
TOTAL UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN FOUNDATION FUND
-> $2,006,000,000
TOTAL STATE INVESTMENT FUND (SIF)
-> $6,603,000,000
TOTAL IN THE RISK MANAGEMENT FUND
-> $94,847,000
TOTAL NONMAJOR GOVERNMENTAL FUNDS
-> $664,459,000
TOTAL NONMAJOR ENTERPRISE FUNDS listed as “All Nonmajor Funds”
-> $1,446,072,000
TOTAL INTERNAL SERVICE FUNDS listed as “totals”
-> $350,107,000
TOTAL PENSION AND OTHER EMPLOYEE BENEFIT TRUST FUNDS listed as “Totals”
-> $66,937,157,000
TOTAL INVESTMENT TRUST FUNDS listed as “Totals”
–> $2,606,398,000
TOTAL PRIVATE-PURPOSE TRUST FUNDS listed as “Totals”
–> $2,265,681,000
TOTAL AGENCY FUNDS listed as “Totals”
-> $334,837,000
——————————
TOTAL FUND INVESTMENTS (From above list)
-> $89,299,958,000
————————————————————————————————————–
(LISTED IN TABLE 3 CHANGES IN NET ASSETS)
TOTAL NET ASSETS
-> $11,693,400,000
TOTAL CAPITAL ASSETS (WITHOUT DEDUCTIONS FOR LONG-TERM LIABILITIES)
-> $22,487,900,000
——————————
TOTAL NET ASSETS
-> $34,181,300,000
————————————————————————————————————–
TOTAL ASSETS (CAPITAL AND INVESTMENTS) FOUND IN 2010 STATE CAFR
-> $123,481,258,000
————————————————————————————————————–
Note: This should not be construed to be a representation of all hidden wealth and investments within the state government of Wisconsin, but rather the ones that jump off the page to the semi-trained eye. Revenue bonds and other investment assets and future profits are still beyond my scope of translation.

But to put this state government wealth into perspective… The population of the state of Wisconsin as of 2010 was 5,686,986 people. The above figure of over $123 Billion represents investments and capital net assets, which total $21,712 per person in the state of Wisconsin. Remember… many of those people are kids with no income!

This summary compilation of the wealth of the state of Wisconsin is for one purpose: to show exactly what the Wisconsin state government is holding in cash and liquid investments, and not hiding this wealth by stating what their “future obligations” are. So the above figure is what the state had in actual assets, cash, and investments as of June 30, 2010, after liabilities were already paid, and not what it will spend later (which is just their way to hide this current wealth as reported by attaching its value to future financial obligations). Compare this with your exact personal bank account balance today, not what it will be next week or in 5 years (or once future bills are paid with future checks). This is the balance today, and it includes your savings and investments at their value today, not in the future.

While the State government will tell us that these funds are designated or “restricted” to the funds that house them, there is no law that says this is the case, and they are transferred between each fund (intra-fund) all of the time. Do not let these crooks tell you that these funds and investments are restricted without proof. SHOW US THE LAW!

This is rightly taxpayer money, and it could and should be used for taxpayer purposes. Instead, it is being withheld from the public (taxpayers), invested in these funds, and used for “business activities” within this for-profit corporation known as the “State of Wisconsin”. There is no reason that any government (meaning the people; the public) should be in debt, at all, with this kind of hidden wealth.

The state of Wisconsin is obviously far from bankrupt!

[snip]

Please see link for additional mind-boggling financial information.

[Horn]

The answer is not more spending. The answer is not austerity. There is no answer. This son of a b*tch is going down in flames and we are all screwed.

The only bright light in all of this is, that more people are starting to think like me. ;D


Aww hell... isn't group think what started this poop storm?


It's like Caligula's orgy, without the sex.

[chad]

it'l be over soon.

julie lassa has 6 + 3 year old girls and is 6 months pregnant. word going around is she's getting tired of it and wants to go home.

[osoab]

it'l be over soon.

julie lassa has 6 + 3 year old girls and is 6 months pregnant. word going around is she's getting tired of it and wants to go home.


Who is julie lassa and why should I care?

[chad]

it'l be over soon.

julie lassa has 6 + 3 year old girls and is 6 months pregnant. word going around is she's getting tired of it and wants to go home.


Who is julie lassa and why should I care?


she's one of the senators that is holed up in illinois. she's pissed and tired of doing it, wants to go home to her kids. when she crosses the state line to come home they will "collect" her, send her to the capitol, open session with a quorum and vote. then it will be over and all the retards from california, minnesota, and illinois that have invaded my state can go home and get back to work fucking up their own states.

[Cobalt]

The people are so stupid, they have been presented the facts that Walker is selling them out and they continue to bicker amongst themselves instead of placing the blame where it truly belongs.

They are divided and will soon be conquered.

Walker will sell the state right out from under them and they will have no one too blame but themselves.

Many will wake up tomorrow morning and find they are no longer in the middle class.

They have allowed the American dream to slip quietly between their fingers that were too busy pointing in all the wrong direction and could not hold onto it tightly.

Other Walkers will immediately spring forward and use the citizens of their own state as stepping stones to climb the corporate ladder with the hopes of joining ranks with the elites

[chad]

The people are so stupid, they have been presented the facts that Walker is selling them out and they continue to bicker amongst themselves instead of placing the blame where it truly belongs.

They are divided and will soon be conquered.

Walker will sell the state right out from under them and they will have no one too blame but themselves.

Many will wake up tomorrow morning and find they are no longer in the middle class.

They have allowed the American dream to slip quietly between their fingers that were too busy pointing in all the wrong direction and could not hold onto it tightly.

Other Walkers will immediately spring forward and use the citizens of their own state as stepping stones to climb the corporate ladder with the hopes of joining ranks with the elites


2 seconds after the bill passes walker will sell the power plants to the koch brothers. bet on it.

[Horn]

2 seconds after the bill passes walker will sell the power plants to the koch brothers. bet on it.


Sounds vaguely familiar as what might happen to the next Pres. with the U.S. Naval fleet.

[Cobalt]

Fox News caught "making News" again

In the clip where they show "bussed in union protesters" you will notice palm trees in the background
:ROFL:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RClJ6vK9x_4

[chad]

latest updates: just passed a resolution holding them in contempt f they on't show up by 4 pm. this will allow them to be "arrested" and brought back.

also, they have found about 41 .22LR shells scattered throughout the rotunda. union is running the angle that it's tea party people threatening violence against union people, tea party people are saying the opposite. now they're going to shut down the capitol to do a security sweep.

Also in court, DOA chief legal counsel Carrie Ann Renlund said the state received an estimate from a vendor that it would cost $7.5 million to clean up the damage done to the Capitol's marble walls from the adhesive and tape used to put up signs around the building.

[Libertytree]

"Also in court, DOA chief legal counsel Carrie Ann Renlund said the state received an estimate from a vendor that it would cost $7.5 million to clean up the damage done to the Capitol's marble walls from the adhesive and tape used to put up signs around the building."

LMAO! Maybe we oughta go bid 2.5 million to do the clean up. Ain't no way in hell a lil adhesive can screw up a marble wall that bad, unless they used liquid nails or something else along those lines. Why would they need a "vendor" to come in for the clean up anyway, don't they already have maintenance crews and state workers?

[dys]

File this under the funny but sad category.

[mick silver]

why not just have the cleaning crew workers there do the f ing jobs .... f

[chad]

now they have ammunition found inside the county building in madison as well.

[sirgonzo420]

now they have ammunition found inside the county building in madison as well.


Smells like someone's up to some bullshit.....



I mean, who would just leave loose ammo laying around?

Kinda reminds me of the "9/11 hijackers" trail of korans in the stripclubs and hotels they visited.

[Book]

now they have ammunition found inside the county building in madison as well.



...next to an Iranian passport and prayer rug.

:o

[JohnQPublic]

Wisconsin Governor To Issue 1500 Layoff Notices Unless Fugitive Democrats Return To The State (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/wisconsin-governor-issue-1500-layoff-notices-unless-fugitive-democrats-return-state)

[Book]

Wisconsin Governor To Issue 1500 Layoff Notices Unless Fugitive Democrats Return To The State (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/wisconsin-governor-issue-1500-layoff-notices-unless-fugitive-democrats-return-state)



Union members with "seniority" don't care.

:D

[k-os]

why not just have the cleaning crew workers there do the f ing jobs .... f


Maybe it's against union regulations? :dunno

[uncletonoose]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcKdaK2MDAs