IT IS NOT ABOUT HOARDING SILVER AND GOLD, YOU MUST TRADE WITH THEM!

[BillBoard]

"Jeb Bush: The truth is useless. You have to understand this right now. You can't deposit the truth in a bank. You can't buy groceries with the truth. You can't pay rent with the truth. The truth is a useless commodity that will hang around your neck like an albatross all the way to the homeless shelter. And if you think that the million or so people in this country that are really interested in the truth about their government can support people who would tell them the truth, you got another thing coming. Because the million or so people in this country that are truly interested in the truth don't have any money. "

Antonio posted the above quote.

It is very insightful.

No matter how much Silver and Gold you have, eventually you will need to trade some of the metals for something else you wish to obtain.

An orderly market will not develop overnight trading in Silver or Gold, we must begin developing it now.

As the Dollar foundation experiences more upheaval and volatility, the more important it becomes to have a stable market in the precious metals.

As a foundation, Gasoline could begin to be traded in Silver and that would provide a reference for a market.

10 Gallons of Gasoline for 1 Ounce of Silver could start it off.

[hoarder]

I often ask private sellers of anything I need if they would like to be paid in silver or cash. Most say "cash". I don't press the issue and say "no problem, I asked because some people prefer REAL money over paper" and I leave it at that. A gun dealer in Texas was tickled to accept walking Liberty halves for a rifle.

[SilverMagnet]

If this were to develop on a national level, Silver would skyrocket due to short supply vs population. Instead of 10 gallons for a troy oz, it would be more like 100 gallons. This would be why pre64 would become necessary. Gold may reverse roles with silver in tradability.

[sirgonzo420]

gresham's law guys.

bad money drives out good money.

[Antonio]

If this were to develop on a national level, Silver would skyrocket due to short supply vs population. Instead of 10 gallons for a troy oz, it would be more like 100 gallons. This would be why pre64 would become necessary. Gold may reverse roles with silver in tradability.


That`s when I`ll trade all my Ag for Au ( a shitload of Au).
Gold is gold.
Silver is Plan B.

[BillBoard]

gresham's law guys.

bad money drives out good money.





Right, when there is a centralized system. That's why you need currency competition. Think about it, that's why they needed to pass the Federal Reserve Act and create the Federal Reserve Central Bank.

If you are up to it, read this book:

http://mises.org/books/desoto.pdf

"Money, Bank Credit, and Economic Cycles" - Jesus Huerta de Soto

Get the real book, it is worth the dough.

[Libertytree]

Think about this, if/when silver hits $250, a Roosevelt/Merc dime would be worth $18.08. At this particular moment it's worth $2.29.

I reckon it's a matter of how it all plays out but it's one hell of a good insurance policy.

[Ponce]

There is a time to fight and a time to hide......the time now is to hold on to your PM and not sell because to sell now would be to get only 10% of what you will get later........

[BillBoard]

There is a time to fight and a time to hide......the time now is to hold on to your PM and not sell because to sell now would be to get only 10% of what you will get later........


It is about trading with the metals Ponce. You don't learn to be familiar with trading with the metals overnight.

[Uncle Salty]

Prices will most likely always be in dollars, albeit inflated dollars.

Silver and gold will also be priced in dollars.

Gas will be $50 a gallon and silver will be $500 per ounce: therefore one gallon of gas would one tenth of one ounce of silver, or about what it is today.

[Horn]

I've gotta little black book I put my poems in, case anyone is interested?

[BillBoard]

I've gotta little black book I put my poems in, case anyone is interested?


Please explain..............>_

[Horn]

I've gotta little black book I put my poems in, case anyone is interested?

Please explain..............>_


If you have something to offer, I'll have to tell you up front I'm presently trapped in a restricted market, delivery fees & taxes you'd be looking at a serious up charge. The poems are mostly self exploratory in nature.


The phrase petrodollar warfare refers to a hypothesis that a hidden, driving force of United States foreign policy over recent decades has been the status of the United States dollar as the world's dominant reserve currency and as the currency in which oil is priced. The term was coined by William R. Clark, who has written a book with the same title. The phrase oil currency wars is sometimes used with the same meaning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_warfare

[k-os]

When I was shopping for RVs I offered two different sellers to purchase the vehicles in gold. The first guy talked me out of buying his RV because it was a Class A, but we had a great conversation about gold, guns, grub and getting the heck out of Florida. The second guy said "no thanks, cash only", so I had to sell to get the cash to buy the RV.

When I showed up the next day with cash (and having paid a commission for selling the gold) he said "Do you have any of that gold you were talking about?" I would have slapped him if I knew him any better. He would have had a much better deal now (just 7 months later), had he taken my offer, and I could have saved the 1.5%. However, the transaction did spark up a conversation about gold, of which he knew next to nothing. I think the next time someone offers to pay him in gold, he will take the offer.

He had a storage facility full of classic cars, so the opportunity may arise again. You never know. I hope it does, and I hope this time he says yes! I'd like to have been the start of someone else learning about honest money.

So, I am all for attempting to trade gold and silver for products and services. It's all positives. You could perhaps meet one of "us", or you might start someone on the path.

[hoarder]

I think the next time someone offers to pay him in gold, he will take the offer. This is actually how it works sometimes. The power of suggestion. Use it!

I once rented a table at a gun show to get rid of a bunch of guns I decided I didn't like. Among the rows of firearms I placed a couple of pretty 100 ounce silver bars. You wouldn't believe how many people just "had to" pick it up, in spite of knowing nothing about PM's. I think I was asking about $700 each for them. I hope they remember.

Nice little seeds of thought planted. :D

[Horn]

So, I am all for attempting to trade gold and silver for products and services. It's all positives. You could perhaps meet one of "us", or you might start someone on the path.


Willy Wonka: So shines a good deed in a weary world.

[Ponce]

There is a time to fight and a time to hide......the time now is to hold on to your PM and not sell because to sell now would be to get only 10% of what you will get later........


It is about trading with the metals Ponce. You don't learn to be familiar with trading with the metals overnight.


You forget that in 1980 I made around $740,00 and that I got back into the market in 1982 and was wheeling and dealing till 2002 when I decided that I had all that I needed........need is one thing and greed is another.

[Sparky]

...
As a foundation, Gasoline could begin to be traded in Silver and that would provide a reference for a market.

10 Gallons of Gasoline for 1 Ounce of Silver could start it off.

In some other thread, I suggested that PM should be measured in food, because of its universal desirability.

Think about it...how many hearty individual meals would you require in exchange for an ounce of silver right now? Let's use 15 ounces of beef stew as a unit meal, as it is a substantial amount of both meat and vegetables. A couple of years ago, the grocery store would exchange 8 of these meals for an ounce of silver; today, 15 of them.

However, if food becomes scarce, how many such meals will you be willing to take away from your family in order to obtain an ounce of silver? Unlikely you would give up 15. Probably not even 5. If you've over-prepped in PM in lieu of food, it is you who will be giving up the silver ounce to get the 5 meals.

So, right now, do you have 15 meals prepped for every ounce of silver you hold? How about 650 meals for every ounce of gold? That's the current exchange rate. In a year, an ounce of gold might get you 1000 meals. In five years, maybe 10 meals.

PMs increase in value as the "system" begins to look shaky, but once the system collapses, your PM purchasing power will collapse as well, until a new system is put into place. It's important to keep this in mind as you prepare. Think about this when you think of trading with metals in the future.

[po boy]

I look at it a simple as this frn=demodracy and sae gae =republic

[Antonio]

When I was shopping for RVs I offered two different sellers to purchase the vehicles in gold. The first guy talked me out of buying his RV because it was a Class A, but we had a great conversation about gold, guns, grub and getting the heck out of Florida. The second guy said "no thanks, cash only", so I had to sell to get the cash to buy the RV.

When I showed up the next day with cash (and having paid a commission for selling the gold) he said "Do you have any of that gold you were talking about?" I would have slapped him if I knew him any better. He would have had a much better deal now (just 7 months later), had he taken my offer, and I could have saved the 1.5%. However, the transaction did spark up a conversation about gold, of which he knew next to nothing. I think the next time someone offers to pay him in gold, he will take the offer.

He had a storage facility full of classic cars, so the opportunity may arise again. You never know. I hope it does, and I hope this time he says yes! I'd like to have been the start of someone else learning about honest money.

So, I am all for attempting to trade gold and silver for products and services. It's all positives. You could perhaps meet one of "us", or you might start someone on the path.


I didn`t suspect you would lower yourself by conversing with a man who doesn`t know about gold. Was it the collection of his classic cars that made you do this? I hear hot cars make any dumb loser seem somewhat sexy...

[po boy]

When I was shopping for RVs I offered two different sellers to purchase the vehicles in gold. The first guy talked me out of buying his RV because it was a Class A, but we had a great conversation about gold, guns, grub and getting the heck out of Florida. The second guy said "no thanks, cash only", so I had to sell to get the cash to buy the RV.

When I showed up the next day with cash (and having paid a commission for selling the gold) he said "Do you have any of that gold you were talking about?" I would have slapped him if I knew him any better. He would have had a much better deal now (just 7 months later), had he taken my offer, and I could have saved the 1.5%. However, the transaction did spark up a conversation about gold, of which he knew next to nothing. I think the next time someone offers to pay him in gold, he will take the offer.

He had a storage facility full of classic cars, so the opportunity may arise again. You never know. I hope it does, and I hope this time he says yes! I'd like to have been the start of someone else learning about honest money.

So, I am all for attempting to trade gold and silver for products and services. It's all positives. You could perhaps meet one of "us", or you might start someone on the path.


Punta Gorda?

[Horn]

but once the system collapses, your PM purchasing power will collapse as well,

Along with the soup canning factory.

[chad]

...
As a foundation, Gasoline could begin to be traded in Silver and that would provide a reference for a market.

10 Gallons of Gasoline for 1 Ounce of Silver could start it off.

In some other thread, I suggested that PM should be measured in food, because of its universal desirability.

Think about it...how many hearty individual meals would you require in exchange for an ounce of silver right now? Let's use 15 ounces of beef stew as a unit meal, as it is a substantial amount of both meat and vegetables. A couple of years ago, the grocery store would exchange 8 of these meals for an ounce of silver; today, 15 of them.

However, if food becomes scarce, how many such meals will you be willing to take away from your family in order to obtain an ounce of silver? Unlikely you would give up 15. Probably not even 5. If you've over-prepped in PM in lieu of food, it is you who will be giving up the silver ounce to get the 5 meals.

So, right now, do you have 15 meals prepped for every ounce of silver you hold? How about 650 meals for every ounce of gold? That's the current exchange rate. In a year, an ounce of gold might get you 1000 meals. In five years, maybe 10 meals.

PMs increase in value as the "system" begins to look shaky, but once the system collapses, your PM purchasing power will collapse as well, until a new system is put into place. It's important to keep this in mind as you prepare. Think about this when you think of trading with metals in the future.


i like it when you post stuff like this. makes me think.

[FunnyMoney]

PMs increase in value as the "system" begins to look shaky, but once the system collapses, your PM purchasing power will collapse as well, until a new system is put into place. It's important to keep this in mind as you prepare. ....


That scenario is very unlikely.


Antonio, silver has many other angles than simply plan B. Silver is being exhausted due to industry. Do you think the price waits until the mining for silver begins to seriously slow and become seriously costly? Those days are not that far out. Silver increases in purchasing power have just begun. We are going to see a huge transfer of wealth to those holding precious metals, especially silver, even without any semblance of financial problems.


Sparky, following a global collapse things are much different than a regional or national collapse. In Argentina, they had the US Dollar, the Yen and other currencies to turn to. A global collapse in fiat money faith would send the price of silver and gold sky high and they would stay high. There is a large marketplace out in the world and there will remain one even following a collapse. A collapse will force those markets to seek out honest and reliable mediums of exchange, beyond simple barter.

[Antonio]

I`m afraid I`ll have to run with my stash wtshtf. Do you want to hold a ton of Ag when there are shots fired on your street or you want 1-2 kilos of Au in your BOB bag?

Ag is a great game in case of orderly SHTF but SHTF cannot be orderly by the definition. Hell, Pd and Pt are a great game in certain economic situations too...

I just don`t see how one would survive with a heavy stack of Ag. You will need a fortress for it.

[FunnyMoney]

You will need a fortress for it.


No, just a map and a shovel

[Book]

However, if food becomes scarce, how many such meals will you be willing to take away from your family in order to obtain an ounce of silver? Unlikely you would give up 15. Probably not even 5. If you've over-prepped in PM in lieu of food, it is you who will be giving up the silver ounce to get the 5 meals.



http://www.foxnews.com/images/524663/2_61_040209_girl_robbery.jpg

I agree and will even go further: The headline on every newspaper worldwide is FOOD PRICES and UNEMPLOYMENT. Nobody will want shiny metal for a loaf of bread. Stockpile FOOD and AMMO and forget about gold and silver. Nobody will be "bartering" either...

:)

[Sparky]

...
Sparky, following a global collapse things are much different than a regional or national collapse. In Argentina, they had the US Dollar, the Yen and other currencies to turn to. A global collapse in fiat money faith would send the price of silver and gold sky high and they would stay high.
...


Price, as measured by what?

If there is a global collapse which includes a breakdown in food production and distribution, you will NOT be getting 15 meals for your silver ounce, you will be getting LESS. As such, the price of silver and gold would go DOWN. They will only regain their value after a new stable fiat currency is put in place to begin the next cycle.

[Book]

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/Hungry%20Children.jpg

Who wants a silver dime kids?

|--0--|

[Bullion_Bob]

However, if food becomes scarce, how many such meals will you be willing to take away from your family in order to obtain an ounce of silver? Unlikely you would give up 15. Probably not even 5. If you've over-prepped in PM in lieu of food, it is you who will be giving up the silver ounce to get the 5 meals.



http://www.foxnews.com/images/524663/2_61_040209_girl_robbery.jpg

I agree and will even go further: The headline on every newspaper worldwide is FOOD PRICES and UNEMPLOYMENT. Nobody will want shiny metal for a loaf of bread. Stockpile FOOD and AMMO and forget about gold and silver. Nobody will be "bartering" either...

:)


People growing/producing food will definitely take PM's over cash why should that change?

Go to the source, not the retail middle man.

[k-os]

I didn`t suspect you would lower yourself by conversing with a man who doesn`t know about gold. Was it the collection of his classic cars that made you do this? I hear hot cars make any dumb loser seem somewhat sexy...


Reading is fundamental. I was purchasing a vehicle from him. Nice attempt at trolling though.

[Book]

People growing/producing food will definitely take PM's over cash why should that change?



http://www.survive2day.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/empty-store-shelves-.jpg

They will be too busy fighting off the local War Lord and starving neighbors themselves.

[General of Darkness]

I'm confused. The jew Antonio is admitting to a collapse? And his jew buddies are worried about our interests? Sounds like b.s. to me.

Because I'm pretty sure most bugs are prepping. I might not be considering using silver to bartor with but I sure as hell might use it to turn a zionists head into a canoe. ;D

[Sparky]

However, if food becomes scarce, how many such meals will you be willing to take away from your family in order to obtain an ounce of silver? Unlikely you would give up 15. Probably not even 5. If you've over-prepped in PM in lieu of food, it is you who will be giving up the silver ounce to get the 5 meals.



http://www.foxnews.com/images/524663/2_61_040209_girl_robbery.jpg

I agree and will even go further: The headline on every newspaper worldwide is FOOD PRICES and UNEMPLOYMENT. Nobody will want shiny metal for a loaf of bread. Stockpile FOOD and AMMO and forget about gold and silver. Nobody will be "bartering" either...

:)


People growing/producing food will definitely take PM's over cash why should that change?

Go to the source, not the retail middle man.



Agreed, the producers will take PMs over cash. Today they'll take one ounce of silver for their food. If thinks go really sour tomorrow, they'll take five ounces for the same amount of food. That's a decrease in PM value.

I'm all for PMs, but you've gotta keep the FRN/PM/TANGIBLE dynamic relationship in perspective for different scenarios. PMs will continue to increase in value right up until a collapse. But when the music actually stops, you'd better have already purchased your seat because the PMs won't buy you one until the music starts up again.

[Bullion_Bob]

People growing/producing food will definitely take PM's over cash why should that change?



http://www.survive2day.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/empty-store-shelves-.jpg

They will be too busy fighting off the local War Lord and starving neighbors themselves.


Granted dire situations will exist according to location, but it still won't change the fact that farmers ultimately will prefer PM's over cash. I would imagine the same would apply to land owners with large acreages of arable land they would be willing to rent out or sell.

Weimar republic. Here's a wheelbarrow of cash v.s. buddy holding a gold/silver coin. One will be worth less the next day, one will be worth more. I know which form of payment I would prefer.

[Bullion_Bob]

However, if food becomes scarce, how many such meals will you be willing to take away from your family in order to obtain an ounce of silver? Unlikely you would give up 15. Probably not even 5. If you've over-prepped in PM in lieu of food, it is you who will be giving up the silver ounce to get the 5 meals.



http://www.foxnews.com/images/524663/2_61_040209_girl_robbery.jpg

I agree and will even go further: The headline on every newspaper worldwide is FOOD PRICES and UNEMPLOYMENT. Nobody will want shiny metal for a loaf of bread. Stockpile FOOD and AMMO and forget about gold and silver. Nobody will be "bartering" either...

:)


People growing/producing food will definitely take PM's over cash why should that change?

Go to the source, not the retail middle man.



Agreed, the producers will take PMs over cash. Today they'll take one ounce of silver for their food. If thinks go really sour tomorrow, they'll take five ounces for the same amount of food. That's a decrease in PM value.

I'm all for PMs, but you've gotta keep the FRN/PM/TANGIBLE dynamic relationship in perspective for different scenarios. PMs will continue to increase in value right up until a collapse. But when the music actually stops, you'd better have already purchased your seat because the PMs won't buy you one until the music starts up again.


I would imagine food prices will still be quoted according to FRN's. Look at how the price of gold went up according to the dollar's decline (Wiemar). So bread goes from $50 to $100. PM's holdings increased in value inversely proportional to the decline of the dollar, so the purchasing power relative to was more or less maintained.

[Sparky]

...
PM's holdings increased in value inversely proportional to the decline of the dollar, so the purchasing power relative to was more or less maintained.


I've just explained to you that in a collapse, it's really not. It's just maintained better than paper.

Today, a case of soup costs 30 FRNs, or one silver ounce. After a collapse, a case of soup costs 150 FRNs, or two silver ounces. I'd rather have held the silver than the FRNs, but the purchasing power of the silver has been cut in half. The only thing that has maintained its value is the case of soup, so that's what you really want to own in a true collapse.

[Bullion_Bob]

Although possible, I can't imagine sticker prices on food valued in FRN's would increase much faster than this?

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7527/ounce1923.jpg

[Ponce]

It is fun to read you guys........someone mentioned that you should buy food instead of PM and he is right, later on even with PM you will not be able to buy food, at first.

Sparky? tomorrow you will be able to buy the same ammount of food for one silver instead of five because silver will go up in price as food will.

Hold on to your PM and tomorrow you will be able to buy a motorcycle instead of a bicycle and a car instead of a motorcycle.........the only thing is that many of you will have to sell in order to survive, take ten percent of your PM and hide it.........but.......don't tell anyone about it, NOT EVEN YOUR WIFE AND KIDS and someday they will have a very pleaseant surprise when you put food on the table with part of that ten percent.

[Serpo]

I grow food in the garden , havnt been able to grow silver yet........

Unless you count silver beet

[Bullion_Bob]

I grow food in the garden , havnt been able to grow silver yet........

Unless you count silver beet


It's there in the garden. You're just not digging deep enough! ;)

[BillBoard]

Ponce:

How the metals are presented have a big influence in how they are traded.

If the mint marks are uncommon or unknown, most people are hesitant to accept them.

That's why developing a trading market is very important.

In hind-sight now I fully comprehend why the Govt. took out the Liberty Dollar, even at the high premium that von NotHaus was charging, they were making big inroads into the market.

People were becoming acquainted with the metal and they trusted the mint marks of the Liberty Dollar.

The mint mark on the Silver and Gold that you hoard is almost as important as holding the metal itself.

[Serpo]

.

The mint mark on the Silver and Gold that you hoard is almost as important as holding the metal itself.


Almost but not quite..... :D

[Horn]

NOT EVEN YOUR WIFE AND KIDS and someday they will have a very pleaseant surprise when you put food on the table with part of that ten percent.


Which is the exact time they will lose their purchasing power, in collapse.

Sparky's just trying to push the global SDR on us early. 8)

[FunnyMoney]

The are too many scenarios to be well protected for all of them with a single class of preps. Even PMs have different scenarios where one should outperform the other depending upon the nature of some future collapse situation or the lack of one.

Silver covers a lot. Silver is running out, if oil becomes an issue it becomes costly to mine, if Asia and developing nations continue to grow it runs out of easily found and extracted underground supplies. If cheap energy doesn't remain cheap then supplies from recycling efforts becomes way too expensive in large amounts. If alternative energy comes online in greater amounts (Chinese solar panel production as 1 example) then consumption of silver increases at an even faster pace. If fiat continues to nose dive around the world then silver investment continues to grow. If an honest medium of exchange is demanded for in some future semi SHTF scenario...

Super catastrophic scenarios (full scale nuclear winter) where silver does not retain its purchasing power vs. typical staple food prices are very unlikely, very very unlikely IMHO. I wrote the FFF thread as a possible scenario but it was speculation and it does not include widespread global war. I think they are less likely scnearios, but that doesn't mean you put all your wealth into metals and ignore food preps and potential food / farming activities. If you can get off grid and go into that, then I think it is worthwhile. But having a plan B is also important. Too much really to cover with a single post and too much to cover with a single investment.

[Sparky]

Since May 2010, silver up 88%. Coffee up 105%.

My guess is that a basic food shortage (via distribution or production) would cause prices to react even more dramatically than coffee.

FM, your first sentence says it all: "There are too many scenarios to be well protected for all of them with a single class of preps."

That's all I'm saying.

[po boy]

Bumping it back from the help of friends. For the shear comedic gold of posts 39 and 40.
Thanks again Ximmy and Osoab.