There's still time to position yourself

[Sparky]

... Maybe that's right around the corner, related to the unrest in the Middle East, or the Wisconsin union battle, or our monetary troubles. Something could snap from these issues, but I don't think the shoe has dropped yet. There's still time to position yourself.


Sparky!! Start a thread on this!! This is what I'm always pondering; PM's check. Food check. Great homestead check. On the fence about location. On the fence about liquidating something else. On the fence about so many things. So many things are dominoing Fast, based on new developments; What the heck do we really know? What the heck can we really expect to position ourselves for?

Elaborate Sparky!
...


OK, here's the new thread, at your request. If we don't know what to expect, how do we prepare? Let me be the first to admit that many here are a lot more prepared than I am, so I don't pretend otherwise. I'm often better at offering food for thought rather than food for dinner. So this thread should be more about perspective on what to expect and what to do about it.

I'll start with valuable observations from two others. First, from the Orlov book on the Russian collapse, the most important piece of advice I took from that book was that everyone should focus all their energy on their own immediate surroundings and family. Don't waste your energy worrying about what's going on with the Middle East, Wisconsin teachers unions, or Washington DC. Don't waste your energy trying to catch and expose lying politicians. Don't waste your energy trying to explain to the world what you've already figured out. Take action to ensure your own future comfort and safety. If the opportunity arises to help someone, or if someone approaches you for help or advice, then you should give it. The closer people are to your inner circle (family, friends, neighbors, co-workers), the more you can help. You're going to need these people, and they're going to need you.

The second thing is to take note of Ponce's approach: try to examine all the scenarios, and cover as many bases as you can. Now, that can be frustrating because there are so many possible scenarios, and he has been preparing for years and as such, has the luxury of tackling new scenarios as he thinks of them, knowing he's already covered so many of them.

What are we preparing for? I think we can sort it into 4 progressively severe scenarios:

1) A 1970's stagflation scenario. Unemployment remains high while inflation ultimately takes hold, causing major problems in family and municipal budgets. There's lots of personal sacrifice at home, and a lot of things go into disrepair, like homes, roads, public buildings, etc. Like the oil embargo years, there's shortage of fuel, which means high prices, waiting in line, and intermittent unavailability. Unlike the 1970's, this could extend into food supplies, and other general supplies that we take for granted. Services deteriorate. Crime increases noticeably. The biggest thing psychologically is that this will be a major setback from how our comfort levels and conveniences have improved over the last 20 years. It will be more drastic than going from the 1960s to the 1970s, because we are used to having so much more. Those who are used to spoiling themselves will feel it the most.

2) A 1930's Depression scenario. The current "underemployment" rate of around 16% doubles to 30-35%. This is like the 1970's scenario, with more desperation. Crime increase is more than just noticeable; it's significant and more disturbing. Shortages are more severe, service becomes less available, general maintenance deteriorates, and people are less civilized in dealing all of it. People get more of a dog-eat-dog attitude; they no longer view it as a temporary condition, and are more reluctant to give up what they have.

3) A systematic breakdown scenario. In the two previous scenarios, things deteriorate but they still operate within the paradigm we are used to; there's just less availability. In the breakdown scenario, the paradigm shifts. The money system collapses, so that there is no trusted exchange system for what we have come to value as assets, either paper, digital, or metals. This results in great uncertainty and imbalances in exchanges. The "value" of what you have will depend on what you need, and what the people immediately around you have and need. This will vary tremendously by neighborhood, town, state, and region. Workers go on strike because they don't get paid, and things don't get done unless you can do them yourself.

4) Mad Max scenario. This extends the previous scenario to some type of uncivilized chaos. This would probably involve some type of widespread nuclear offensive or natural disaster.

So, given those wildly different scenarios, how to prepare? Well, if you think about it, the preparation for those scenarios have a lot of overlap. Do that stuff first. Start with the basic needs, and the stuff that would be hardest to 1) replace if it weren't available, and 2) cause the most discomfort if it wasn't replaceable. That's why it always starts with food and water. Clothing and shelter. Tools and supplies. Personal and home protection.Then precious metals. Develop and nourish your network of family, friends, and neighbors.

I don't want to make this a religious discussion, but I'll just state it once that Christians should have God central to their lives regardless of any of this, which will reap a benefit regardless of what happens. Let's just leave it at that, unless someone wants to start a new thread on this sub-topic.

A word about precious metals. In Scenarios 1 and 2 they are likely to not only preserve your wealth but also increase it. In Scenario 3, their value could vary wildly for the reasons I described. An ounce of gold might buy you a piece of land, or a piece of gum. In Scenario 4, they may have no value.

Finally, let's approach "how to prepare?" by asking what things would cause the greatest discomfort or inconvenience or loss of safety in your immediate surroundings, and what would be the hardest of those things to replace if there were no assistance from somebody else, i.e. no farmer, no Walmart, no plumber, no grocery store, no health care provider, no police force, no utilities, no drug store, etc.

As a final note, mankind spent thousands of years living under the conditions of Scenarios 1,2, and 3, and yet there was still happiness and life was still worth living. Hugs, sunsets, friendship, jokes, pretty smiles, and probably even puppy dogs will still be there for the taking.

[Ponce]

There might be time to get ready but they will be traveling in coach and not in first class like we are.

[BabushkaLady]

Thanks Sparky--I'm way to tired to think tonight. Be back after coffee in the am!

[Serpo]

There might be time to get ready but they will be traveling in coach and not in first class like we are.


hahahaha ....and another quote of the year from Ponce....

[Sparky]

There might be time to get ready but they will be traveling in coach and not in first class like we are.


Better than traveling in cargo, or left at the station!

[General of Darkness]

There might be time to get ready but they will be traveling in coach and not in first class like we are.


Better than traveling in cargo, or left at the station!


Or in a pine box. ;)

[RJB]

There might be time to get ready but they will be traveling in coach and not in first class like we are.


Better than traveling in cargo, or left at the station!
Good points, but many don't know where the station is or if it even exists...

[solid]

As a final note, mankind spent thousands of years living under the conditions of Scenarios 1,2, and 3, and yet there was still happiness and life was still worth living. Hugs, sunsets, friendship, jokes, pretty smiles, and probably even puppy dogs will still be there for the taking.


Amen, great post Sparky! I also think as these scenario's unfold (which ever one does) there will be a culture shift to discard what is not needed, and focus on the things that truly have value.

Having 1000 friends on facebook won't matter to people, but a few good friends and family that you can trust with your life will. That fancy car won't matter, but your old beater that starts every time will. A huge circle of acquaintances, a popularity contest, discarded to return to the loss of values that will be restored in the future.

Living that way now, is the best prep there is. Focus on the simple things in life.

[Jazkal]

Good points, but many don't know where the station is or if it even exists...

I've stopped trying to convince anyone, they all would rather live in a dream world. I guess they think that if they don't talk about it, it will go away and get better.

[General of Darkness]

These days I'm pissed that the few friends I have know I have guns and they have NONE. When TSHTF, I know they'll be knocking on my door. Damn I need to figure out how I'm going to deal with that. Probably leave with all my stuff. ;)

[Ponce]

Well General, I am lucky in that a couple of people have told me that I was going to get hit WTSHTF, and I am making preparations according to what I know........by the way, TSHTF has already hit and like fluffy snow it is slowly drifting down to us.........and like the frog in the pot many will die.

[SLV^GLD]

TS HTF every day.

[Antonio]

I`ve lived thru this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Blackout_of_2003

I noticed that my air conditioner stopped working, didn`t pay any attention to it for a few minutes because I was very busy at the moment. After about half an hr I decided to check what was going on and there was no power at all. I came out of my building and went 1 block down to the store to buy batteries. It was already a bit of a Mad Max there, huge crowds of very energetic people stomping on a few people lying on the ground, trying to grab the last flashlights and batteries.

Now think about the probability of a country-wide Mad Max in the case of real SHTF.

Katrina footage of bodies floating around with their throats slit will help your calculations.

[General of Darkness]

I`ve lived thru this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Blackout_of_2003

I noticed that my air conditioner stopped working, didn`t pay any attention to it for a few minutes because I was very busy at the moment. After about half an hr I decided to check what was going on and there was no power at all. I came out of my building and went 1 block down to the store to buy batteries. It was already a bit of a Mad Max there, huge crowds of very energetic people stomping on a few people lying on the ground, trying to grab the last flashlights and batteries.

Now think about the probability of a country-wide Mad Max in the case of real SHTF.

Katrina footage of bodies floating around with their throats slit will help your calculations.


Sure you did, you're about honest as I'm a rabbi.

[Antonio]

http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/client/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=229219056&cid=RSSfeed_IWK_News



inShare Permalink Air Force Seeks Fake Online Social Media Identities
The military has issued a request for bids on software to let it spread messages and make online friends using non-existent identities on social media sites.


By Alison Diana , InformationWeek
February 22, 2011 01:56 PM


Slideshow: Inside DHS' Classified Cyber-Coordination HeadquartersThe United States Air Force is taking an unusual approach to cyber-security with a request for bids for "Persona Management Software," which would let someone command an online unit of non-existent identities on social media sites. The move became a major topic last week following the release of emails from private security firm HBGary, which were disclosed after an attack by Wikileaks competitor and collaborator Cryptome.org.

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Join Trend Micro CEO Eva Chen, Pacific Northwest Labs' Jerry Johnson, RSA's Mischel Kwon, and Time Warner's Renee Guttman as they talk malware and cybercrime with InformationWeek.com editor-in-chief Alex Wolfe, from the InformationWeek 500 ConferenceAccording to Solicitation Number: RTB220610 , the armed services division sought a software program that could manage 10 personas per user, including background; history; supporting details, and cyber presences that are " technically, culturally and geographacilly [sic] consistent. Individual applications will enable an operator to exercise a number of different online persons from the same workstation and without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries. Personas must be able to appear to originate in nearly any part of the world and can interact through conventional online services and social media platforms. The service includes a user friendly application environment to maximize the user's situational awareness by displaying real-time local information."

The request, made in June 2010, was for 50 licenses, for a total of 500 fake Internet identities, which the Air Force planned to deploy in Iraq and Afghanistan. The software would protect government agencies' identities by using several false signals to convince other users that the poster was a real person, according to the contract. For example, each persona could receive its own IP address, making it appear to post from a different location around the world.

Understand the major shift occurring in the way capacity is managed in the data center

Cloud Computing and How To Drive Efficiency in Virtual Environments

At least one individual was surprised that the proposal was published openly.

"This is posted on open source. Are you ****ing serious?" wrote Greg Hoglund, owner of HBGary, in an email leaked by a group of hackers that broke into the security firm's network earlier this month. "Just curious, this particular one is pretty sensitive and I'm wondering why it was in the public domain," he added, in a separate email.

Details about the contract were disclosed when hacker Cryptome.org broke into the email account of HBGary, which develops computer forensics and malware analysis tools. Its sister company, HBGary Federal, provides security services -- such as installing intrusion detection systems, secure networking, penetration testing, and vulnerability assessment -- to public and private sector organizations.

The fake-personal social media contract would allow the government to "friend" real people on Facebook as a way to show support for pro-government messages, according to information revealed during the hack.

The software could cross-reference all available social media such as Facebook, Twitter, MySpace, and other services to collect data on real individuals, and then use this to gain access to users' social circles, according to the emails.

"Using the assigned social media accounts we can automate the posting of content that is relevant to the persona. In this case there are specific social media strategy Web site RSS feeds we can subscribe to and then repost content on twitter with the appropriate hashtags. In fact using hashtags and gaming some location-based check-in services we can make it appear as if a persona was actually at a conference and introduce himself/herself to key individuals as part of the exercise, as one example. There are a variety of social media tricks we can use to add a level of realness to all fictitious personas," said Aaron Barr, HBGary CEO, in the hacked emails.

By using information -- such as their high schools, colleges, and home towns -- that users freely share on social networking sites, the Air Force could gain access to individual's social circles, creating a Classmates.com account at the same school and within the same graduating class, and then creating a Facebook account in the name of a real person who does not have a Facebook account, the email exchanges said. By friending someone with 300 to 500 friends, a fake persona easily can develop mutual friends before sending a friend request to the targeted individual, the emails said.

"When choosing to participate in social media, an individual is only as protected as his/her weakest friend," according to the documents.

In 2009, the Pentagon spent at least $4.7 billion and employed 27,000 people solely for recruitment, advertising, and public relations, according to a 2009 report by the Associated Press.

The Armed Forces increasingly has integrated social media considerations into operations. In November, the Air Force warned members about the dangers of location services such as Facebook Places and Foursquare. A year ago, the Department of Defense released a policy memorandum regarding the safe and effective use of Internet-based capabilities, including social media.


Open government road maps are done, Web sites launched, and 300,000 data sets released -- but there's much more to do. Here's our 10-point plan for what must be done next. That and more in the new all-digital issue of InformationWeek Government. Download it now.




PS. Now consider what else besides microwave beams that can cause a headache or fry you alive our govt has which makes firearms obsolete.

PS.PS. http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2011/02/22
It was a good show last night.

[BabushkaLady]

I'll start with valuable observations from two others. First, from the Orlov book on the Russian collapse, the most important piece of advice I took from that book was that everyone should focus all their energy on their own immediate surroundings and family. Don't waste your energy worrying about what's going on with the Middle East, Wisconsin teachers unions, or Washington DC. Don't waste your energy trying to catch and expose lying politicians. Don't waste your energy trying to explain to the world what you've already figured out. Take action to ensure your own future comfort and safety. If the opportunity arises to help someone, or if someone approaches you for help or advice, then you should give it. The closer people are to your inner circle (family, friends, neighbors, co-workers), the more you can help. You're going to need these people, and they're going to need you.


This is the best advice I've seen and I agree 100%.




3) A systematic breakdown scenario. In the two previous scenarios, things deteriorate but they still operate within the paradigm we are used to; there's just less availability. In the breakdown scenario, the paradigm shifts. The money system collapses, so that there is no trusted exchange system for what we have come to value as assets, either paper, digital, or metals. This results in great uncertainty and imbalances in exchanges. The "value" of what you have will depend on what you need, and what the people immediately around you have and need. This will vary tremendously by neighborhood, town, state, and region. Workers go on strike because they don't get paid, and things don't get done unless you can do them yourself.
. . . . .
A word about precious metals. In Scenarios 1 and 2 they are likely to not only preserve your wealth but also increase it. In Scenario 3, their value could vary wildly for the reasons I described. An ounce of gold might buy you a piece of land, or a piece of gum. In Scenario 4, they may have no value.


I think the paradigm is shifting as we type! This is a controlled collapse, which imho makes it more dangerous. If I'd never bought au for under 300 from the guys that bought in at 800 I'd feel so much better. Problem is it's still in my mind. I'm hesitant to go too much further positioning myself in that direction.

Another pondering point is that it really depends on your age and assets of what you position yourself at/for. A young young aware fella may go a little more heavy; dedicating a bigger percentage of their net pay to metals. On the other hand; a middle-ager most likely already with some solid assets; will double up on supplies. The older prepper has a different concern; they may be spread pretty evenly in assets and are trying to get the next chair in the musical chair game.

After all the obvious preps; I guess each person needs to place their chips on the table and cross their fingers! I'm leaning toward more un-improved land with water as the next investment. We'll see!

Thanks again Sparky for your time and insights!

[Book]

I'll start with valuable observations from two others. First, from the Orlov book on the Russian collapse, the most important piece of advice I took from that book was that everyone should focus all their energy on their own immediate surroundings and family. Don't waste your energy worrying about what's going on with the Middle East, Wisconsin teachers unions, or Washington DC. Don't waste your energy trying to catch and expose lying politicians. Don't waste your energy trying to explain to the world what you've already figured out. Take action to ensure your own future comfort and safety. If the opportunity arises to help someone, or if someone approaches you for help or advice, then you should give it. The closer people are to your inner circle (family, friends, neighbors, co-workers), the more you can help. You're going to need these people, and they're going to need you.

The second thing is to take note of Ponce's approach: try to examine all the scenarios, and cover as many bases as you can. Now, that can be frustrating because there are so many possible scenarios, and he has been preparing for years and as such, has the luxury of tackling new scenarios as he thinks of them, knowing he's already covered so many of them.



Sparky is a very thoughtful guy but if anything, way too optimistic in this thread. Case in point: Ponce does not enjoy any of the personal relationships (highlighted in red above) that Dmitri Orlov describes as being absolutely essential to basic survival.

:dunno Which is it? Point one or point two? Orlov or Ponce?

Because 2011 Americans are not 1930s Americans the first two "4 progressively severe scenarios" are simply wishful thinking. Americans today are obese, prescription/illegal drug addicts, lazy, and stupified teevee watchers. We are already in severe scenario three and most Americans haven't even noticed. Too busy watching Dancing With The Stars on that HDTV purchased with their final unemployment check. The real fun starts when the food stamps stop.

[solid]

I`ve lived thru this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Blackout_of_2003


That disaster affected 45 million people and 11 died. I'm glad you were among the 44,999,989 survivors who lived through that epic catastrophe. :) ;D

[Ponce]

TS HTF every day.


Very true.......but....... only if you are not ready everyday to live like you did the day before......which to me means that you are not ready for all..............but........"To be ready is not"... Ponce

You got it Book......when I was living among people I was getting in trouble all the time because people were giving me the problems......the best time of my life have been living alone and away from the city lights, WTSHTF I know 100% for sure that anyone that comes INTO my property is up to no good and I'll be able to defend myself better.

[Antonio]

I`ve lived thru this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Blackout_of_2003


That disaster affected 45 million people and 11 died. I'm glad you were among the 44,999,989 survivors who lived through that epic catastrophe. :) ;D


I`ve detected your irony but you haven`t detected mine.
It was nothing really but the scariest part was the behaviour of the people in the Bronx where I was at the time.
By the way, don`t trust the official statistics about anything. I guarantee you that lots more than 11 people were killed during those 24 hrs.

[Book]

WTSHTF I know 100% for sure that anyone that comes INTO my property is up to no good and I'll be able to defend myself better.



You are the poster child for what Dmitri Orlov said what NOT to do. They will get all your Preps when you are all alone sleeping...and Ponce does have to sleep.

:D

[Antonio]

When real SHTF all you will regret that you didn`t enjoy life fully before cause sure as hell you won`t enjoy it after.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TULYBRHBAs

Life after SHTF won`t be pleasant and probably won`t be worth living
(unless one is a predator of course and even in that case it will be short).

[mick silver]

if any does happen ... it will be mad max all the way . i have seen how people act when elec off , i seen them when you cant get fuel to ride around in the dark . that why i made my move . we have a store , i had two gun on my side and did my wife and all we were doing was locking every thing up and people were f nuts . do not let no one get close to you or your home are you will not live to tell about it that if some thing happens

[Sparky]

I'll start with valuable observations from two others. First, from the Orlov book on the Russian collapse, the most important piece of advice I took from that book was that everyone should focus all their energy on their own immediate surroundings and family. Don't waste your energy worrying about what's going on with the Middle East, Wisconsin teachers unions, or Washington DC. Don't waste your energy trying to catch and expose lying politicians. Don't waste your energy trying to explain to the world what you've already figured out. Take action to ensure your own future comfort and safety. If the opportunity arises to help someone, or if someone approaches you for help or advice, then you should give it. The closer people are to your inner circle (family, friends, neighbors, co-workers), the more you can help. You're going to need these people, and they're going to need you.

The second thing is to take note of Ponce's approach: try to examine all the scenarios, and cover as many bases as you can. Now, that can be frustrating because there are so many possible scenarios, and he has been preparing for years and as such, has the luxury of tackling new scenarios as he thinks of them, knowing he's already covered so many of them.



Sparky is a very thoughtful guy but if anything, way too optimistic in this thread. Case in point: Ponce does not enjoy any of the personal relationships (highlighted in red above) that Dmitri Orlov describes as being absolutely essential to basic survival.

:dunno Which is it? Point one or point two? Orlov or Ponce?

Because 2011 Americans are not 1930s Americans the first two "4 progressively severe scenarios" are simply wishful thinking. Americans today are obese, prescription/illegal drug addicts, lazy, and stupified teevee watchers. We are already in severe scenario three and most Americans haven't even noticed. Too busy watching Dancing With The Stars on that HDTV purchased with their final unemployment check. The real fun starts when the food stamps stop.




Maybe I'm optimistic relative to this forum, but my friends would hardly describe it that way! I don't discount the more severe scenarios as implausible, but just lower odds. When it gets to the worse cases and what it means, you have to start getting philosophical about life. Hundreds of generations lived under conditions equal to or worse than what I described, with scant creature comforts, and having little certainty about exchangeable "assets". Were those billions of life simply despair? Current poor countries have amongst the happiest populations. The real trauma is in the fall from lofty heights, which is psychological more than physical.

As for Orlov and Ponce; I understand how those are inconsistent with one another as you have pointed out, but I mentioned them because they represent two perspectives that have merit. You can benefit from both by applying them as you see fit.

[mick silver]

Hundreds of generations lived under conditions equal to or worse than what I described, with scant creature comforts, and having little certainty about exchangeable "assets". there was no were close to as many people that we have now in the world ... and most are to dumb to go to the store and get food .

[Book]

Hundreds of generations lived under conditions equal to or worse than what I described, with scant creature comforts, and having little certainty about exchangeable "assets". Were those billions of life simply despair? Current poor countries have amongst the happiest populations. The real trauma is in the fall from lofty heights, which is psychological more than physical.



2011 Americans are not 1930s Americans. I think this is what you might be ignoring in your optimism.

:)

[Ponce]

WTSHTF I know 100% for sure that anyone that comes INTO my property is up to no good and I'll be able to defend myself better.



You are the poster child for what Dmitri Orlov said what NOT to do. They will get all your Preps when you are all alone sleeping...and Ponce does have to sleep.

Book? for one thing I now more alarms and light than the White House (most of them with remote control) and not even a snake can sneek in into my property......also, when the danger is here I will not be sleeping in my bed inside of my home but rather in a place from where I can monitor my property and come in from behind on any person or group that tries to do me damage...
when the time is right I'll set up all my booby traps in my INNER FENCE that goes 10 feet from my home and all the way around it...............and like I said before "To me is not a matter of livng or buying the farm but rather as to how I play the game".

:D

[Antonio]

Ponce, seriously bro, sell some of the alarms, buy an eightball of good coke and invite a couple of girls.
You will regret not having done this when you are booby-trapping your place.

[zap]

I tend to think that I am well positioned, I think my problem is mental :D , cause in any of the 4 scenarios I am going to have to be the one to keep my head, although I am good under pressure, most of my family are retarded. Edit (they are all retarded) I don't want to be the one that they depend on. They think the government will save them, and yes I do have to sleep sometime.

[Book]

Ponce, seriously bro, sell some of the alarms, buy an eightball of good coke and invite a couple of girls.



GSUS off-topic post about using illegal drugs #213

:oo-->

[Sparky]

Ponce, seriously bro, sell some of the alarms, buy an eightball of good coke and invite a couple of girls.



GSUS off-topic post about using illegal drugs #213

:oo-->






Book, then stop feeding the beast! ;)

[Antonio]

Having spent every second your life madly prepping for SHTF will buy you about a week or 2 more of survival than a regular guy (provided it`s real SHTF and not the simple loss of comforts which every American imagines as the end of the world).

The catch-22 is that in USA the loss of comforts will automatically lead to TSHTF.

It`s a sunny day here in NYC. I think I`ll work out a bit and go for a walk.

[Book]

Hundreds of generations lived under conditions equal to or worse than what I described, with scant creature comforts, and having little certainty about exchangeable "assets". Were those billions of life simply despair? Current poor countries have amongst the happiest populations. The real trauma is in the fall from lofty heights, which is psychological more than physical.



2011 Americans are not 1930s Americans. I think this is what you might be ignoring in your optimism.

:)



Still there Sparky? Can you comment on my point contrasting 2011 Americans with 1930 Americans?

|--0--|

[Sparky]

Hundreds of generations lived under conditions equal to or worse than what I described, with scant creature comforts, and having little certainty about exchangeable "assets". Were those billions of life simply despair? Current poor countries have amongst the happiest populations. The real trauma is in the fall from lofty heights, which is psychological more than physical.



2011 Americans are not 1930s Americans. I think this is what you might be ignoring in your optimism.

:)


OK, now this brings up an important distinction in this discussion, which may be causing a disconnect.

There are lots of unaware, unprepared, dependent, spoiled sheep out there who will take the brunt of the suffering. They might still have more resources than the poorest groups of the 1930's. But their fall will be from a much higher comfort level, so they may suffer more psychologically. I agree, for the soft, there will be much gnashing of teeth in any of the scenarios.

But, I don't see that as interfering with the preparation and outcome for the more aware group, such as those here. Maybe that's why I seem more optimistic. Most people here strive to be independent, they recognize value, they appreciate what they have, they prepare. So any setback will not be as traumatic. On topic, for those desiring to prepare, there's still time to position yourself.

I guess the dilemma, such as zap pointed out, is the situation where you are trying to prepare while your family and friends are not. Perhaps that's the real source of angst here. To that, I say set an example, and then they will still catch on ahead of the masses. In reference to Ponce's comment, this may be soon enough for them to get a ticket in coach.

[Antonio]

Hundreds of generations lived under conditions equal to or worse than what I described, with scant creature comforts, and having little certainty about exchangeable "assets". Were those billions of life simply despair? Current poor countries have amongst the happiest populations. The real trauma is in the fall from lofty heights, which is psychological more than physical.



2011 Americans are not 1930s Americans. I think this is what you might be ignoring in your optimism.

:)



Still there Sparky? Can you comment on my point contrasting 2011 Americans with 1930 Americans?

|--0--|


Book pretends to hate my guts but he is a secret admirer. Seriously, he just summarized the biggest problem we are facing and it is ourselves.
Survival among degenerates is an impossibility.

[mick silver]

this is a good tread please dont run it off the rail

[Ponce]

Hahahahahah Antonio, back about 9 years ago someone was using my back gate to come into my property to steal tools, I made one of my shoot gun booby traps and I myself set it off while walking away......it scared the hell out of me, so, I set it up once again and about one week later in the middle of the night it went off........I only smiled and went back to sleep.......no missing tools from there on ;D

Hey, hey HEYYYYYYYYY Antonio, hes suppose to be jelous of only me..........right Book? hahahahahahahahah.

[Book]

OK, now this brings up an important distinction in this discussion, which may be causing a disconnect.

There are lots of unaware, unprepared, dependent, spoiled sheep out there who will take the brunt of the suffering. They might still have more resources than the poorest groups of the 1930's. But their fall will be from a much higher comfort level, so they may suffer more psychologically.



Good. Our continuing disconnect appears to be the magnitude of the 2011 fat, lazy, stupid Americans and how they don't and can no longer be compared to the hardy, healthy, hard-working 1930s Americans. These people today are on prescription/illegal drugs, booze, Marlboros, coffee, and Diet Coke. When the 7-11 store runs out of these things Americans will quickly freak out and go berserk. When the food stamps end these people will freak out and go berserk. When Popeyes ran out of chicken look what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pyW6w5B7Aw

:)

[Antonio]

Hahahahahah Antonio, back about 9 years ago someone was using my back gate to come into my property to steal tools, I made one of my shoot gun booby traps and I myself set it off while walking away......it scared the hell out of me, so, I set it up once again and about one week later in the middle of the night it went off........I only smiled and went back to sleep.......no missing tools from there on ;D

Hey, hey HEYYYYYYYYY Antonio, hes suppose to be jelous of only me..........right Book? hahahahahahahahah.


I respect you but now imagine a couple of 100 niggers with guns in acute opiate withdrawal outside your property.

[ShortJohnSilver]

It`s a sunny day here in NYC. I think I`ll work out a bit and go for a walk.


Those checks from the ADL or other Zio-terrorist orgs still clearing the bank?

[MNeagle]

Hundreds of generations lived under conditions equal to or worse than what I described, with scant creature comforts, and having little certainty about exchangeable "assets". Were those billions of life simply despair? Current poor countries have amongst the happiest populations. The real trauma is in the fall from lofty heights, which is psychological more than physical.



2011 Americans are not 1930s Americans. I think this is what you might be ignoring in your optimism.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21969.0;attach=643 1;image
:)


What happened to your earlier version of 2011 Book?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_SURKoZUIukM/TGtKZVwwPNI/AAAAAAAAPU8/DAsVoKC0vZ8/s1600/Neighborhood+Block+Party+020.jpg

[Sparky]

OK, now this brings up an important distinction in this discussion, which may be causing a disconnect.

There are lots of unaware, unprepared, dependent, spoiled sheep out there who will take the brunt of the suffering. They might still have more resources than the poorest groups of the 1930's. But their fall will be from a much higher comfort level, so they may suffer more psychologically.



Good. Our continuing disconnect appears to be the magnitude of the 2011 fat, lazy, stupid Americans and how they don't and can no longer be compared to the hardy, healthy, hard-working 1930s Americans. These people today are on prescription/illegal drugs, booze, Marlboros, coffee, and Diet Coke. When the 7-11 store runs out of these things Americans will quickly freak out and go berserk. When the food stamps end these people will freak out and go berserk. When Popeyes ran out of chicken look what happened:

[assclown exhibit deleted]

:)




To my point, if I am focused on securing my immediate environment, how does proliferation of these assclowns impact my consequences?

[Ponce]

Sparky? they say that "No man is an Island".........but I am a continent.....it all depends how you look at it.

[Antonio]

It`s a sunny day here in NYC. I think I`ll work out a bit and go for a walk.


Those checks from the ADL or other Zio-terrorist orgs still clearing the bank?


Those checks are fatter than mine, they buy a pic collection of Book`s size.

[k-os]

These days I'm pissed that the few friends I have know I have guns and they have NONE. When TSHTF, I know they'll be knocking on my door. Damn I need to figure out how I'm going to deal with that. Probably leave with all my stuff. ;)


I think being alone when TSHTF will make you more vulnerable.

I know I can't defend my house alone, and I don't want to live in a world where I have to turn away people I really, truly love.

I've invited my dad, some key, close friends and one neighbor couple to come to my house in a worst case scenario (3 or 4 in Sparky's example). It wasn't easy, but I've had the discussion with them a few times. Although the wives don't want to think about it, the husbands are more inclined to prepare for an unpleasant future.

That would be 7 people total, including one child, and me. We've all agreed that my house is the most logical choice for all of us - lots of space, land for growing, a private well, a fence for first line of defense, flat roof for 360 degree view, and other potentially useful characteristics like several nearby canals. Plus, from the outside, my house is one of the ugliest on the block, making it less of an interest to thieves.

Maybe no one will come, maybe it will never be necessary, but I think it's a good conversation to have, even if they think I'm crazy. :o

[Book]

What happened to your earlier version of 2011 Book?



Nobody in either photo actually owns or is healthy/hardy enough to operate a shovel in 2011.

:)

[mick silver]

kos i have had the some talk ... my close family will be trying to get here . i just hope they can . i have the land to grow food , i have food stored , i have pigs and other amimals for food . and tools to work the land even if gas run out . the tools i have brought over the last year that dont need gas . old tool that are pulled by horse . i hope i never need them

[Book]

OK, now this brings up an important distinction in this discussion, which may be causing a disconnect.

There are lots of unaware, unprepared, dependent, spoiled sheep out there who will take the brunt of the suffering. They might still have more resources than the poorest groups of the 1930's. But their fall will be from a much higher comfort level, so they may suffer more psychologically.



Good. Our continuing disconnect appears to be the magnitude of the 2011 fat, lazy, stupid Americans and how they don't and can no longer be compared to the hardy, healthy, hard-working 1930s Americans. These people today are on prescription/illegal drugs, booze, Marlboros, coffee, and Diet Coke. When the 7-11 store runs out of these things Americans will quickly freak out and go berserk. When the food stamps end these people will freak out and go berserk. When Popeyes ran out of chicken look what happened:

:)




To my point, if I am focused on securing my immediate environment, how does proliferation of these assclowns impact my consequences?



Because these assclowns immediately and suddenly and predictably will become very very violent when they can't get their prescription/illegal drugs, booze, Marlboros, coffee, Diet Coke and Popeyes chicken:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qskaSRkns8A/S6nMMTvZPBI/AAAAAAAANG4/CCjSQdbsXaM/s1600/la-riots.jpg

http://wiki.gc.maricopa.edu/download/attachments/7246/apgcc_LA_RIOT_DENNY_B_004QI.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1178259578000

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qskaSRkns8A/S6nMLqofHbI/AAAAAAAANGo/P-EAXd9U8kk/s1600/la-riots-time.jpg

You just don't apparently seem to understand the potential of real social violence in 2011...

:)

[Sparky]

To my point, if I am focused on securing my immediate environment, how does proliferation of these assclowns impact my consequences?



...

You just don't apparently seem to understand the potential of real social violence in 2011...

:)


If that were true, I never would have come to appreciate the importance of owning a firearm, which I learned from this forum.

;)

[k-os]

Book, I see your point, but the country is more than just NYC, L.A. and New Orleans type of environment and population. Sparky did not neglect the issues of theft and violence in some of his scenarios.

The morbidly obese people who do not own, nor have the ability to operate shovels will probably rot in their homes waiting for someone to save them. They are actually the least of our concerns (in scenarios 3 and 4 anyway).

[MNeagle]

I was looking for a comparison to the photo #3, the block party people.

[Book]

Book, I see your point, but the country is more than just NYC, L.A. and New Orleans type of environment and population. Sparky did not neglect the issues of theft and violence in some of his scenarios. The morbidly obese people who do not own, nor have the ability to operate shovels will probably rot in their homes waiting for someone to save them. They are actually the least of our concerns (in scenarios 3 and 4 anyway).



http://rlv.zcache.com/baad_coffee_jitter_gritter_tee_tshirt-p235429943210522525gr3t_400.jpg

Sparky can answer for himself.

:)

1) The vast majority of Americans are located in or around major cities.

2) When 7-11 stores run out of prescription/illegal drugs, booze, Marlboros, coffee, Diet Coke and Popeyes chicken those addicts will suddenly and immediately become a direct threat to all of us. Are you sweet even without your coffee? Imagine millions of Antonios suddenly without a fix.

:)

[Book]

I was looking for a comparison to the photo #3, the block party people.



Here (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nIZprbnXL-s/TRQIhr7yBFI/AAAAAAAASN4/au7pfzQoZg4/s1600/PieTownPicnicCrowd1940.jpg) you go. The difference is that those 1930s people grew their picnic food.

:)

[RJB]

I don't think there is a difference between people now, 70 years ago, 7,000 years ago. People will do what they need to survive. Whether it's working hard or jumping through paperwork hoops to get welfare.

I can't predict the future, but it will be interesting to see what will happen when Xanax, "energy" drinks, Big Macs, etc. are a thing of the past. It may temporarily hurt AND , but people adapt pretty quickly.


ETA It may be a rude and fatal hurt for many.

[Book]

The study finds that in 2008 more than half a billion adults were obese worldwide, including an estimated 297 million obese women and 205 million obese men. Excess body weight is a known risk factor for heart disease, diabetes, and cancer, causing “nearly three million deaths every year worldwide” according to the World Health Organization.

:oo-->

http://0.tqn.com/d/history1900s/1/0/b/1/gd41.gif

[Antonio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmdfD2byTuY

Fatalism is the best survival tool.
I am in my prime,hehe...

[MNeagle]

I was looking for a comparison to the photo #3, the block party people.



Here (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nIZprbnXL-s/TRQIhr7yBFI/AAAAAAAASN4/au7pfzQoZg4/s1600/PieTownPicnicCrowd1940.jpg) you go. The difference is that those 1930s people grew their picnic food.

:)


I guess I'm not expaining myself well enough.

What I see, is you're comparing people of the 30's to a.) wally-world obese scooter-riders & b.) people of the 30's tailgating.

My question is, where are those people in your 'block party' picture today/tomorrows' crisis?

I think most of them DO own a shovel, can plant a garden, learn to shoot/defend themselves w/ a firearm. Are they there now? Probably not.

Can they learn? YES.

I guess it's all upon how much we want to stick our necks out, trying to teach them.

[sirgonzo420]

I was looking for a comparison to the photo #3, the block party people.



Here (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nIZprbnXL-s/TRQIhr7yBFI/AAAAAAAASN4/au7pfzQoZg4/s1600/PieTownPicnicCrowd1940.jpg) you go. The difference is that those 1930s people grew their picnic food.

:)


Now huge corporations do that for us (with Monsanto's help, of course).

[RJB]

The study finds that in 2008 more than half a billion adults were obese worldwide, including an estimated 297 million obese women and 205 million obese men. Excess body weight is a known risk factor for heart disease, diabetes, and cancer, causing “nearly three million deaths every year worldwide” according to the World Health Organization.
A couple days without food can change a lot in a person such as work ethic when a safety net is removed. I will agree that those with self induced insulin dependant diabetes and cancer aside are screwed.

I'd wager a bet on how people will or would not adapt post SHTF but collecting on it might be tough ;D

[k-os]

Book, I see your point, but the country is more than just NYC, L.A. and New Orleans type of environment and population. Sparky did not neglect the issues of theft and violence in some of his scenarios. The morbidly obese people who do not own, nor have the ability to operate shovels will probably rot in their homes waiting for someone to save them. They are actually the least of our concerns (in scenarios 3 and 4 anyway).



Sparky can answer for himself.

:)

1) The vast majority of Americans are located in or around major cities.

2) When 7-11 stores run out of prescription/illegal drugs, booze, Marlboros, coffee, Diet Coke and Popeyes chicken those addicts will suddenly and immediately become a direct threat to all of us. Are you sweet even without your coffee? Imagine millions of Antonios suddenly without a fix.

:)


I didn't mean to answer for him, just trying to add to the discussion.

OK, since theft and violence have been mentioned, what exactly do you think is going happen when the 7-11 stores run out of addictive substances? Do you think they are going to go nuclear on us? Will their heads explode and their blood infect us with addiction? Are they going to literally turn into zombies and begin thirsting for brains?

Yes, I am sweet without coffee. I don't drink it regularly. I am not fun to be around when I don't get enough sleep, however. Coffee doesn't seem to help lift my mood in that case.

[Ponce]

Here in America people will "adapt" themselves to the situation "only" when is torn down and rebuilt from the ground up........the reason for this is that they themselves will take it down to the ground.......there is no reason for what is about to be to happen but for the fact that the people are not mentally ready for what is to happen and by not being so they will make it worse.

[Book]

What I see, is you're comparing people of the 30's to a.) wally-world obese scooter-riders & b.) people of the 30's tailgating.

My question is, where are those people in your 'block party' picture today/tomorrows' crisis?

I think most of them DO own a shovel, can plant a garden, learn to shoot/defend themselves w/ a firearm...






As a final note, mankind spent thousands of years living under the conditions of Scenarios 1,2, and 3, and yet there was still happiness and life was still worth living. Hugs, sunsets, friendship, jokes, pretty smiles, and probably even puppy dogs will still be there for the taking.



I guess in my usual annoying sardonic way I am questioning both your notions that 2011 Americans are up to it.

:)

[Antonio]

[quote=k-os ]

1) The vast majority of Americans are located in or around major cities.

2) When 7-11 stores run out of prescription/illegal drugs, booze, Marlboros, coffee, Diet Coke and Popeyes chicken those addicts will suddenly and immediately become a direct threat to all of us. Are you sweet even without your coffee? Imagine millions of Antonios suddenly without a fix.

:)








I`ve had a few chances of imagining millions of Antonios running around without a fix WTSHTF. The main motivation behind my finally getting clean was not having to be one of the Antonios WTSHTF.

I am here to testify that a perfectly white and highly cultured Antonio will kill for a fix if needed. The only difference between Antonio in that situation and a common junkie is that Antonio would choose his victim carefully, it`d probably be one of those stupid pimps walking around wearing 2 kilos of gold chains. Antonios will never hurt a decent person.

[Book]

I'd wager a bet on how people will or would not adapt post SHTF but collecting on it might be tough ;D



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRm1OFWXwPs

:D

[Book]

OK, since theft and violence have been mentioned, what exactly do you think is going happen when the 7-11 stores run out of addictive substances? Do you think they are going to go nuclear on us? Will their heads explode and their blood infect us with addiction? Are they going to literally turn into zombies and begin thirsting for brains?



Gee...and some here think my photos are sarcastic exaggerations...

:oo-->

[MNeagle]

2011[/b] Americans are up to it.

:)




You're not annoying. I guess it's what you're surrounded with, or see, that will skew your perception.

Yes, we have to keep an eye out for the ZOMBIES. Be aware.

But not all of us are in those conditions... and some have BOL's or other resources to bug-in.

I, for one, believe in the pioneer spirit & that is of survival... regardless where it occurs.

[Book]

I guess it's what you're surrounded with, or see, that will skew your perception...



http://www.idahowebsitedesign.com/images/boise_idaho_real_estate.jpg

I'm in Boise, Idaho and perceive it to be the best place in America wtshtf.

:)

[MNeagle]

I guess it's what you're surrounded with, or see, that will skew your perception...



http://www.idahowebsitedesign.com/images/boise_idaho_real_estate.jpg

I'm in Boise, Idaho and perceive it to be the best place in America wtshtf.

:)




Beyond beautiful. Hope those slopes are ski worthy!

Thx for the pic.

[Libertytree]

Most people in the US today are NOT anywhere near being able to handle short or long term SHTF. They will gladly go to the nearest FEMA center and fight each other to get there 1st, they are not our problem, as cold as that may sound. The .gov are these peoples nanny and the .gov is well prepared for them in numerous ways, while we on the other hand are their antithesis and want to not have a nanny/overlord that we're dependant on.

If TSHTF in a Cat 5 degree we'd all miss a lot of things but the difference is we've mentally prepared for it as well as physically prepared for it and won't be going apeshit when that day comes.

[Book]

half-hour from downtown (http://www.fox12idaho.com/Global/story.asp?S=14067217)

:) all the reservoirs are now full so plenty of water this year also

[Book]

If TSHTF in a Cat 5 degree we'd all miss a lot of things but the difference is we've mentally prepared for it as well as physically prepared for it and won't be going apeshit when that day comes.



Thanks to GSUS and other internet connections. I agree.

:)

[Jazkal]

I think most of them DO own a shovel, can plant a garden, learn to shoot/defend themselves w/ a firearm. Are they there now? Probably not.

Can they learn? YES.

I guess it's all upon how much we want to stick our necks out, trying to teach them.

Can they learn? Yes.

But will they have TIME to learn? NO, not in a true SHTF event.

Most of these people won't have food, much less water for more than 3 days, tops. Most of the city people I know eat out almost every meal. Even if they were handed seeds and told to go plant them in the back yard, they would all starve before they could harvest the food.

If your going to stay in the city and try and teach these people something, I think it is just a quick way to die. When the balloon goes up, and your in the city, get out, as fast as you can.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Astute. Allow me to tell you a story about Phillip II of Macedonia.


Phillip II was the Father of Alexander the Great. Phillip was the first man in Greek History to unite all of Greece militarily - previously each large city had been a private state/country.

A Greek historian was interviewing Phillip the II - and was taken aback that the man had found time to get drunk, then sleep for 14 hours.

"You are the first man in history to unite all of Greece by force. How could you possibly sleep for 14 hours?"


"Ah, yes, I slept - but while I slept, Antiphon was awake."










WTSHTF I know 100% for sure that anyone that comes INTO my property is up to no good and I'll be able to defend myself better.



You are the poster child for what Dmitri Orlov said what NOT to do. They will get all your Preps when you are all alone sleeping...and Ponce does have to sleep.

:D




That says it all. Everyone needs a right hand man. Everyone sleeps.

[Ponce]

Well, if my CA attorny wife and 18 year old boy move in with me I wont be alone......but........I'd never count on anything till it happens and that's why I now plan for being by myself.

[k-os]

OK, since theft and violence have been mentioned, what exactly do you think is going happen when the 7-11 stores run out of addictive substances? Do you think they are going to go nuclear on us? Will their heads explode and their blood infect us with addiction? Are they going to literally turn into zombies and begin thirsting for brains?



Gee...and some here think my photos are sarcastic exaggerations...

:oo-->



Can you answer the question now, since I have removed the obvious hyperbole that followed?

Since theft and violence have been mentioned, what exactly do you think is going happen when the 7-11 stores run out of addictive substances?

[Antonio]

Astute. Allow me to tell you a story about Phillip II of Macedonia.


Phillip II was the Father of Alexander the Great. Phillip was the first man in Greek History to unite all of Greece militarily - previously each large city had been a private state/country.

A Greek historian was interviewing Phillip the II - and was taken aback that the man had found time to get drunk, then sleep for 14 hours.

"You are the first man in history to unite all of Greece by force. How could you possibly sleep for 14 hours?"


"Ah, yes, I slept - but while I slept, Antiophon was awake."










WTSHTF I know 100% for sure that anyone that comes INTO my property is up to no good and I'll be able to defend myself better.



You are the poster child for what Dmitri Orlov said what NOT to do. They will get all your Preps when you are all alone sleeping...and Ponce does have to sleep.

:D




That says it all. Everyone needs a right hand man. Everyone sleeps.



You must be one of those budding pinko-kommies who think that 2 truly united people will always win against 2 individuals. Be careful, you may start listening to Antonios...

[Book]

Can you answer the question now, since I have removed the obvious hyperbole that followed?

Since theft and violence have been mentioned, what exactly do you think is going happen when the 7-11 stores run out of addictive substances?



On that day you don't want to be tooling around in an RV on your Mystery Tour a thousand miles away from your family. A single woman alone on the highway will be a victim.




We've all agreed that my house is the most logical choice for all of us - lots of space, land for growing, a private well, a fence for first line of defense, flat roof for 360 degree view, and other potentially useful characteristics like several nearby canals. Plus, from the outside, my house is one of the ugliest on the block, making it less of an interest to thieves. Maybe no one will come, maybe it will never be necessary, but I think it's a good conversation to have, even if they think I'm crazy. :o



:)

[Horn]

( Re: There's still time to position yourself )

http://files.myopera.com/AOTEAROAnz/albums/531421/head-up-ass.jpg

[Ponce]

Horn? that's what I was thinking about, either that or kneeling on the ground with your ass up in the air.

Just spoke with my attorney in Ca and he is getting rid of most of his stuff so that he can move here, because he will be operating from a virtual world he will be able to work from here.

[k-os]

Maybe no one will come, maybe it will never be necessary, but I think it's a good conversation to have, even if they think I'm crazy. :o


If SHTF while you are on the road, you can count on me to have a place for you! |--0--|


Thanks Huggy! Here's a hug, backatcha: |--0--|

I'd love to stop by and visit you again anyway - this time at the BOL! Maybe I need to schedule regular safety stops on the way home.

[zap]

Maybe no one will come, maybe it will never be necessary, but I think it's a good conversation to have, even if they think I'm crazy. :o


If SHTF while you are on the road, you can count on me to have a place for you! |--0--|


Thanks Huggy! Here's a hug, backatcha: |--0--|

I'd love to stop by and visit you again anyway - this time at the BOL! Maybe I need to schedule regular safety stops on the way home.


If you are on the road when things get bad, I am sure there are enough folks here to help you get home safe, I got friends/family in Nevada, Texas, Missouri and friends of friends, no worries you'll get home safe ! ;)

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

You must be one of those budding pinko-kommies who think that 2 truly united people will always win against 2 individuals. Be careful, you may start listening to Antonios...



I am just a man who studies history.

[Ponce]

I for one don't "study" history but only read about it........after all, maybe Bush Jr wrote it :conf: :oo-->

[RJB]

I for one don't "study" history but only read about it........after all, maybe Bush Jr wrote it :conf: :oo-->
When did he learn to write ???

[Horn]

Horn? that's what I was thinking about, either that or kneeling on the ground with your ass up in the air.

Just spoke with my attorney in Ca and he is getting rid of most of his stuff so that he can move here, because he will be operating from a virtual world he will be able to work from here.


There could be more chaos & pirate zombies in the virtual world than in the real one...

[Neuro]

I for one don't "study" history but only read about it........after all, maybe Bush Jr wrote it :conf: :oo-->
When did he learn to write ???
Don't ever doubt a man who is capable of reading upside down...
http://www.gwjokes.com/pictures/photoshop-upsidedown.jpg

[Buddha]

2) When 7-11 stores run out of prescription/illegal drugs, booze, Marlboros, coffee, Diet Coke and Popeyes chicken those addicts will suddenly and immediately become a direct threat to all of us. Are you sweet even without your coffee? Imagine millions of Antonios suddenly without a fix.

:)


If that's the case then it will be a very peaceful mob. However, could you imagine all of those soulless stares? O_O

[zap]

:ROFL:

Jes, I am getting my wallet out right now so I can give it to em , before they give me that soulless stare. :'(

[Antonio]

:ROFL:

Jes, I am getting my wallet out right now so I can give it to em , before they give me that soulless stare. :'(


You are, Zap, you are...

[MNeagle]

:ROFL:

Jes, I am getting my wallet out right now so I can give it to em , before they give me that soulless stare. :'(
:ROFL: :ROFL:

Thank you. I needed that!

[Buddha]

Back on topic. Those 7/11 junkies will wear away rather quickly I think and hope. Like the first few rounds of a boxing match where the fighters go at it intensely, then settle in because they can not keep up the pace. By "going at it intensely" I mean being squirrell shit nuts, and by "settling in" I mean adapting or dieing.

[Sparky]

Has it come down to us worrying about 7/11 junkies as the main threat?!?

Here's a little prep humor...

Q: What goes orange-white-brown-orange-white-brown-orange-white-brown?

.

.

.

.

A: Ponce and a sea gull fighting over a Dorito.

[Book]

...being squirrel shit nuts...



http://www.splicelicio.us/image/christian-bale-freak-out-bloody-face-american-psycho-mouth-open-teeth-goes-crazy-eyes-tantrum-photo.jpg

During normal times most armed robberies and muggings are perpetrated by some junkie needing drug money. Wait until he also runs out of cigarettes and coffee and 7-11 store munchies...

:)

[Mouse]

There's not a 7-11 within fifty miles of me, so I am protected. Most of the junkie here are making their own meth, so I don't worry so much about that either. There are some not so nice country boys around here that might try some shit, but that's why you have your local community.

The last time there was lawlessness here was during/after the civil war and the people squashed it out like bugs. The "baldknobbers" will form again, as necessary.

If you are a criminal element, just make sure you don't let the sun set on your back if you are still in Booger county.

[Ponce]

Sparky? I never seen a brown sea gull hahahahahaahhaah, back at you.

[Sparky]

Sparky? I never seen a brown sea gull hahahahahaahhaah, back at you.


;D ;D

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

What does it take for people to riot? It takes entitlement. Most of us have entitlement, because in the past we have sold labor and in the end received FRNs for it. Though the number of hours worked never decreases, the purchasing power of the paper always does. So the real entitlement is shrinking - but the imagined entitlement has a hard time doing so. In very real terms, we believe (but are not guaranteed) that the paper is worth something. It can't be worth *nothing*. Because we worked for it. And that wasn't nothing. So while we may accept that the paper is worth less and less, the moment we are told that NOTHING can be got from it . . . well that's one way to an instant riot.

So really it all comes down to physical, real goods.

[Cobalt]

As far as "711 Junkies" you need to put them too work for you

You go bang and watch them drop, after they drop you tie them up on the power poles in the area and hang a sign on them simply saying

LOOTER

[Horn]

As the 711 junkie goes so too does 711, and all support mechanisms keeping them afloat.