So I bought a copy of Pike's Morals & Dogma....

[sirgonzo420]

I've been meaning to get a copy for a while now, but haven't felt like spending $50 or $60 on one.

The other day I found a copy at my local used bookstore for $7!

I bought it and have since been reading through it and so far it is not what I imagined it would be.

It's pretty damn interesting so far - and I'm a non-mason (and if anything, an anti-mason)!


Has anyone here actually read it?


Or do any masons wanna out themselves? lol

[Antonio]

I want to read this and also Manly Hall.

[sirgonzo420]

Available on google books for free. Haven't read it. The price was too high.



Hahaha!

I have a PDF of it somewhere on my computer, but I prefer reading physical books. Call me old-fashioned!

;D

[Antonio]

is there no help for the widow's son?

[keehah]

They are illuminating books that offer some history, a solid perspective and some good advice and some dated ideas. Some better than the ones offered up for public consumption.

The will to create, and techniques for it, is not an evil thing in itself. Evil is a result and intent of its use. And the wisdom of 'your will'. And entropy of course.

People are taught how to manifest their will, or not. If not, to accept another's will or drift (much more common). Those who are taught not to manifest their will tend to think any manifestation of will as potential evil. Perhaps as a sheep likes harmony in the herd as understanding is not required for peace of mind.

[sirgonzo420]

They are illuminating books that offer some history, a solid perspective and some good advice and some dated ideas. Some better than the ones offered up for public consumption.

The will to create, and techniques for it, is not an evil thing in itself. Evil is a result and intent of its use. And the wisdom of 'your will'. And entropy of course.

People are taught how to manifest their will, or not. If not, to accept another's will or drift (much more common). Those who are taught not to manifest their will tend to think any manifestation of will as potential evil. Perhaps as a sheep likes harmony in the herd as understanding is not required for peace of mind.






I'll agree with that.

Anyway, I just finished reading Morals & Dogma the other day and it is (while redundant and loquacious) exceedingly interesting.

People like to quote the bit about Lucifer on page 321, but for someone who is not tied to any particular dogmatic religion, but who acknowledges the existence of something or some Force "higher/greater than oneself", the contents of the book are not really objectionable.

The ideas in Morals & Dogma are basically a synthesis or distillation of all the so-called great teachings or religions and mystery schools of the ages.

It is no doubt a philosophical as well as theosophical work.


I have doubts as to how many current Masons have read the book, or are at all familiar with the ideas and thoughts it contains.

[Twisted Titan]

The Blue Degrees [first, second and third] are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry (the 28th degree and beyond)."

M&D PP 819

[StreetsOfGold]

Both Hall and Pike both serve the same Master = Satan
If you become a mason, Pike's book is required reading

[sirgonzo420]

The Blue Degrees [first, second and third] are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry (the 28th degree and beyond)."

M&D PP 819


I found that bit interesting as well.

Freemasonry, with its rituals and ceremonies and symbols, seeks to emulate the manner in which the ancient mystery schools taught the mysteries.


Magism was the Science of Abraham and Orpheus, of Confucius and Zoroaster. It was the dogmas of this Science that were engraven on the tables of stone by Enoch and Trismegistus. Moses purified and re-veiled them, for that is the meaning of the word reveal. He covered them with a new veil, when he made of the Holy Kabbalah the exclusive heritage of the people of Israel, and the inviolable Secret of its priests. The Mysteries of Thebes and Eleusis preserved among the nations some symbols of it, already altered, and the mysterious key whereof was lost among the instruments of an ever-growing superstition. Jerusalem, the murderess of her prophets, and so often prostituted to the false gods of the Syrians and Babylonians, had at length in its turn lost the Holy Word, when a Prophet announced by the Magi by the consecrated Star of Initiation [Sirius], came to rend asunder the worn veil of the old Temple, in order to give the Church a new tissue of legends and symbols, that still and ever conceal from the Profane, and ever preserves to the Elect the same truths.

[Awoke]

I have an actual copy of morals and dgoma at home, in my possession, but I am reading about 4 books right now simultaniously, so who knows when I will sit down and read the actual works of a luciferian anti-Christian?

I have read a few books that dissect Pikes Ms&D book, but I know that I have to read the source itself.

I would disagree with you on your synopsis though. It is hell-bent on the destruction of Christianity, using "Reason" and "Superstition" to lead people away from Christ.

I will post more in this thread to discuss with you, but I just posted a lengthy post in a similair thread and I'm burnt out on it right now.

EDITED for typos and clarity.

[sirgonzo420]

I have an actual copy of morals and dgoma at home, in my possession, but I am reading about 4 books right now simultaniously, so who knows when I will sit down and read the actual works of a luciferian anti-Christian?

I have read a few books that dissect Pikes Ms&D book, but I know that I have to read the source itself.

I would disagree with you on your synopsis though. It is hell-bent on the destruction of Christianity, using "Reason" and "Superstition" to lead people away from Christ.

I will post more in this thread to discuss with you, but I just posted a lengthy post in a similair thread and I'm burnt out on it right now.

EDITED for typos and clarity.


The intro to Morals & Dogma says that masons may believe the book in part, completely, or not at all. Pike didn't pretend to speak for all masons (even though he was head poobah of the Southern Jurisdiction USA for a few decades).

For what it's worth, Pike considered himself a "trinitarian christian". I was surprised too.

Here are some snippets from here and there:


Speak kindly to your erring brother! God pities him; Christ has died for him; Providence waits for him; Heaven’s mercy yearns toward him; and Heaven’s spirits are ready to welcome him back with joy. (Morals & Dogma p.134)



Masonry does not pretend to be a religion; but it is not irreligious or irreverent. It does not assume to take the place of any religion, or claim to make religion unnecessary. To charge it with this is to libel it. It requires its initiates to believe in one God and a Divine Providence, and that the soul survives the dissolution of the body. Thus it teaches those great primary truths on which all religion must repose; and it inculcates those principles of pure morality which have commended themselves to the good and wise of all ages." (Albert Pike – Ritual for the Reception of a Louveteau p.14)

[MAGNES]

SirGonzo, what you are posting I can find on pro masonic sites, I been reading since 2007.

Like this one. You are actually posting what is on there, read it.

Are these your ideas you posted or you read them online from pro mason sites ?

http://www.masonicinfo.com/lucifer.htm

I have masonic books , banned, Awoke and I even shared some of them in PM,
and skykike banned us for that. I posted that screen of him talking about scientology.
And who thanked him, monkey trolls and his little agents.

I have posted screens from these books, Jah Bul On, very revealing, demon gods.

Pike ain't no Christian, what do you expect him to say to his target audience that is
Christian, first they hook you.

Pike is a very sinister character.

His methods and masonry methods we can see in MSM and disinfo today.

[MAGNES]

Albert Pike

QUOTES BY ALBERT PIKE, Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council 33rd Degree, Ku Klux Klan ritual designer, Ku Klux Klan Chief Judicial Officer and Arkansas Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the spirit of darkness! Lucifer, The Son of The Morning! [Here Pike is denying Christ as the Light of the world and giving that designation to Lucifer, the Devil] Is it he who bears the light . .? Doubt it Not!" (Pike, op. cit., p. 321. See also A Ralph Epperson, The Unseen Hand: An Introduction to the Conspiratorial View of History, Tucson, Arizona, Publius Press, 1985, p. 224).

On July 14, 1889, Pike gave instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World: "That which we must say to the crowd is, We worship a God, but it is the god that one adores without superstition. To you Sovereign Grand Inspectors General (the name of the 33rd degree, the highest degree known to the world in Scottish Rite Masonry), we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees. The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine . . . Yes, Lucifer is God . . . the pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer . . . Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good . . ." (Decker, op. cit., p. 6). With this admission, is it any wonder that Pike is called the "Pontiff of Luciferian Freemasonry" (Waite, op. cit., Vol. II, p. 253)?

"Nothing excites men's curiosity so much as Mystery, concealing things which they desire to know; and nothing so much increases curiosity as obstacles that interpose to prevent them from indulging in the gratification of their desires. Of this the Legislators and Hierophants took advantage, to attract the people to their sanctuaries, and to induce them to seek to obtain lessons from which they would perhaps have turned away with indifference if they had been pressed upon them." (Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 384).

"So Masonry jealously conceals its secrets and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray . . . If you have been disappointed in the first three degrees, as you have received them . . . remember that . . . symbols were used, not to reveal but to conceal . . . The symbols and ceremonies of Masonry have more than one meaning. They rather conceal than disclose the Truth" (Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma,pp. 105-106; 148).

"The Blue Degrees (the first three degrees of Masonry) are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their True explication is reserved for the Adepts (those who have advanced to the highest degrees in Masonry) . . . It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain (and any past Mason who has learned the truth, knows the almost complete futility in trying to enlighten his fellow Mason as to truth. For they have been so completely indoctrinated they will not listen, nor examine the evidence presented to them) . . . " (Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 819).

"Masonry, like all the [man-made organised] Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it. . . . So Masonry jealously conceals its secrets, and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray" (Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, pp. 104-105).

The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is NOT a black God..... but the negation of God.... the Devil is the personification of Atheism ....or Idolatry. For the 'Initiates', this is not a person, but a Force, created for GOOD, but which may serve for evil. IT..is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force, which presides over the physical generation, under the mythological and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the He-Goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend. (Albert Pike: Morals and Dogma, p. 172).

[sirgonzo420]

SirGonzo, what you are posting I can find on pro masonic sites, I been reading since 2007.

Like this one. You are actually posting what is on there, read it.

Are these your ideas you posted or you read them online from pro mason sites ?

http://www.masonicinfo.com/lucifer.htm

I have masonic books , banned, Awoke and I even shared some of them in PM,
and skykike banned us for that. I posted that screen of him talking about scientology.
And who thanked him, monkey trolls and his little agents.

I have posted screens from these books, Jah Bul On, very revealing, demon gods.

Pike ain't no Christian, what do you expect him to say to his target audience that is
Christian, first they hook you.

Pike is a very sinister character.

His methods and masonry methods we can see in MSM and disinfo today.




Have you ever read the book?

I read it, and while a christian might find it objectionable, I don't. I am not a freemason, but a relative of mine is a 32nd degree and he had never read Pike's book or anything like it. Masonry is used today as a power structure; a network.

There is nothing in Morals & Dogma to suggest Satan worship.

Pike's book seems to be more of a synthesis of buddhism and kabbalah, with other bits from various mystery schools thrown in.


I DO however see how the Hegelian dialectic fits in with Pike's affinity for duality/trinity...

[MAGNES]

All of Masonry is anti Christian, ritual , manipulation, deceit and demon worship.

Some have described Pike as a brilliant writer and poet, may be true, but that is not a
proof of how good of a guy he is. They don't come out and tell you outright what you
are joining, nor do most know even after they join, Pike himself is part of that deceit,
and has contempt for his fellow masons. Like Lenin, " useful idiots " .

Even MP on gim refused to defend Pike, " he was out there " .

Masonic oaths automatically disqualify you from public office of trust.

http://i52.tinypic.com/2hi6umx.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/33cvkw7.jpg

[MAGNES]

Have you ever read the book?


I don't have a hard copy, I do have more than one copy in PDF form.

And many mason books written by and for masons, and first hand accounts.

I suspect there are different versions of it even in hard copy.

There are quotes above, you have the hard copy, are they there ?

Even if he writes nice stuff what does that prove ?

It's interesting to see Pikes statue in washington as acceptable,
with the same stolen and corrupted double headed eagle as
rothchilds use. He was their man.

[sirgonzo420]

Have you ever read the book?


I don't have a hard copy, I do have more than one copy in PDF form.

And many mason books written by and for masons, and first hand accounts.

I suspect there are different versions of it even in hard copy.

There are quotes above, you have the hard copy, are they there ?

Even if he writes nice stuff what does that prove ?

It's interesting to see Pikes statue in washington as acceptable,
with the same stolen and corrupted double headed eagle as
rothchilds use. He was their man.




The quotes from Morals & Dogma are real quotes, but the one from that letter is an admitted hoax. (Leo Taxil hoax)

Pike admits that the higher degrees hide truths from the lower degrees, but that's because that's how the mystery schools did it and freemasonry tries to imitate that.

I like philosophy, and so I was bound to find the book interesting. It's not a big handbook for taking over the world like the Protocols; it is a philosophy/theosophy book.

[vacuum]

The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is NOT a black God..... but the negation of God.... the Devil is the personification of Atheism ....or Idolatry. For the 'Initiates', this is not a person, but a Force, created for GOOD, but which may serve for evil. IT..is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force, which presides over the physical generation, under the mythological and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the He-Goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend. (Albert Pike: Morals and Dogma, p. 172).

This is the key here. Many masons, and the rulers of this world, are what I would call spiritual atheists. They relate to Lucifer, the light bearer, as a symbol of knowledge. They do in fact develop themselves spiritually, but in a negative direction.

Regular atheists like, say, Dawkins, are spiritually immature atheists who believe they've got everything figured out in their head. Spiritual atheists don't rely on logic and debates, they follow their soul. Like anyone who wishes to develop spiritually, they must attain Love. In their case it is love of themselves. As they develop, they become what is known as service-to-self (STS) entities, and can eventually become non-physical. They need others like them to sustain themselves, because their love does not come from the Source....they require others to serve them.

Christ represents service-to-others. Generally the idea behind organized religions (note I didn't necessarily say organized religions) is based on service-to-others as the path of spiritual development. In this case, Love is freely given and received. This makes it difficult for the negative side because it starves them out of existence.

I'm sure a mason could go either way, since these spiritual principles apply equally to both ways. However Free Masontry as an organization appears to be orientated in the negative direction.

Regarding Satan, he is a real entity or being, one that is on the top of this negative pyramid. He requires this dark pyramid to sustain him, feeding off the energy of humanity. He isn't a god, he's just an STS being like all the others that aspire to be like him. And there are humans who could eventually get to his level, theoretically. There are probably many others like him throughout the universe.

[sirgonzo420]

The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is NOT a black God..... but the negation of God.... the Devil is the personification of Atheism ....or Idolatry. For the 'Initiates', this is not a person, but a Force, created for GOOD, but which may serve for evil. IT..is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force, which presides over the physical generation, under the mythological and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the He-Goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend. (Albert Pike: Morals and Dogma, p. 172).

This is the key here. Many masons, and the rulers of this world, are what I would call spiritual atheists. They relate to Lucifer, the light bearer, as a symbol of knowledge. They do in fact develop themselves spiritually, but in a negative direction.

Regular atheists like, say, Dawkins, are spiritually immature atheists who believe they've got everything figured out in their head. Spiritual atheists don't rely on logic and debates, they follow their soul. Like anyone who wishes to develop spiritually, they must attain Love. In their case it is love of themselves. As they develop, they become what is known as service-to-self (STS) entities, and can eventually become non-physical. They need others like them to sustain themselves, because their love does not come from the Source....they require others to serve them.

Christ represents service-to-others. Generally the idea behind organized religions (note I didn't necessarily say organized religions) is based on service-to-others as the path of spiritual development. In this case, Love is freely given and received. This makes it difficult for the negative side because it starves them out of existence.

I'm sure a mason could go either way, since these spiritual principles apply equally to both ways. However Free Masontry as an organization appears to be orientated in the negative direction.

Regarding Satan, he is a real entity or being, one that is on the top of this negative pyramid. He requires this dark pyramid to sustain him, feeding off the energy of humanity. He isn't a god, he's just an STS being like all the others that aspire to be like him. And there are humans who could eventually get to his level, theoretically. There are probably many others like him throughout the universe.


I'm not familiar with "STS entities"... care to enlighten?

[vacuum]

The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is NOT a black God..... but the negation of God.... the Devil is the personification of Atheism ....or Idolatry. For the 'Initiates', this is not a person, but a Force, created for GOOD, but which may serve for evil. IT..is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force, which presides over the physical generation, under the mythological and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the He-Goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend. (Albert Pike: Morals and Dogma, p. 172).

This is the key here. Many masons, and the rulers of this world, are what I would call spiritual atheists. They relate to Lucifer, the light bearer, as a symbol of knowledge. They do in fact develop themselves spiritually, but in a negative direction.

Regular atheists like, say, Dawkins, are spiritually immature atheists who believe they've got everything figured out in their head. Spiritual atheists don't rely on logic and debates, they follow their soul. Like anyone who wishes to develop spiritually, they must attain Love. In their case it is love of themselves. As they develop, they become what is known as service-to-self (STS) entities, and can eventually become non-physical. They need others like them to sustain themselves, because their love does not come from the Source....they require others to serve them.

Christ represents service-to-others. Generally the idea behind organized religions (note I didn't necessarily say organized religions) is based on service-to-others as the path of spiritual development. In this case, Love is freely given and received. This makes it difficult for the negative side because it starves them out of existence.

I'm sure a mason could go either way, since these spiritual principles apply equally to both ways. However Free Masontry as an organization appears to be orientated in the negative direction.

Regarding Satan, he is a real entity or being, one that is on the top of this negative pyramid. He requires this dark pyramid to sustain him, feeding off the energy of humanity. He isn't a god, he's just an STS being like all the others that aspire to be like him. And there are humans who could eventually get to his level, theoretically. There are probably many others like him throughout the universe.


I'm not familiar with "STS entities"... care to enlighten?


Google results of "sts entity" provide a pretty good idea of the concept and relate to what I'm talking about.

[cthulu]

I have heard That lucifer is Christ or viceversa not that I subscribe to it.

[Awoke]

Gonzo, this is not meant as a personal attack.

If after seeing those M's&D quotes above, you still cannot see that the FMC is an admitted luciferian body of worship, I just don't know what to say. You are more intellegent that that.

Semantics such as "Nowhere does it say they worship satan" is below what I normally see coming from you. Satan is Lucifer, is Ba'al, is Moloch, et al.

Besides Ms&D, there are other highly touted masonic authors who admit crux of the FMC is luciferian worship. They use a lot of pretty wording and eloquent writing, but their message is simple:
Belief in Christ is superstition and silly, belief in Lucifer is reasonable and illuminating.

This is why it is so simple to understand that it is an attack on Jesus. You can't believe in lucifer without believing in God. This is why I always say to people: You may not believe in Christ, but the PTB certainly do. I have a number of friends that are in the FMC. They are all lower level master masons, blue lodge 3rd degrees for the most part. A few have gone further. I have approached the friends that I am clse with and expressed my concerns. As usual, they deny my allegations and tout whatever lines that a 3rd degree is told to tout, which is as always a lie that they believe.

I have bought multiple copies of a few different books and given them to people that I care about who are involved in the FMC, and none of them have read a single sentence from the books. The refuse to do any research on it, outside of kosher FMC writings, and they constantly use bullshit gobble-de-goop from their "emergency book" entitled "The pilgrims path, which is a laughable attempt at refuting proofs that the FMC is an anti-Christian organization.
So be it. The Father has his own plans for them.

The lodge even sent one of my old friends to visit me, under the pretense of "catching up" and "having a beer", but at the end of the night he made his true intentions known, which was to try and convince me that the FMC is not what I say is is, and that I should not believe the writings of Pike, Hall and others. Haha!

Whatever. Just last week I loaned Eppersons book to a co-worker. He set it down on the counter in the bathroom while he was in there, and when he came to the counter to wash his hands, it was stolen. Typical. So I have been praying that whoever has stolen it will read the book, come to their senses, and return it to me.

Anywyays, I got off track, but yeah: The FMC is an satanic cult at its core.

[Awoke]

I have heard That lucifer is Christ or viceversa not that I subscribe to it.


Where did you hear something like that?

[sirgonzo420]

Gonzo, this is not meant as a personal attack.

If after seeing those M's&D quotes above, you still cannot see that the FMC is an admitted luciferian body of worship, I just don't know what to say. You are more intellegent that that.

Semantics such as "Nowhere does it say they worship satan" is below what I normally see coming from you. Satan is Lucifer, is Ba'al, is Moloch, et al.

Besides Ms&D, there are other highly touted masonic authors who admit crux of the FMC is luciferian worship. They use a lot of pretty wording and eloquent writing, but their message is simple:
Belief in Christ is superstition and silly, belief in Lucifer is reasonable and illuminating.

This is why it is so simple to understand that it is an attack on Jesus. You can't believe in lucifer without believing in God. This is why I always say to people: You may not believe in Christ, but the PTB certainly do. I have a number of friends that are in the FMC. They are all lower level master masons, blue lodge 3rd degrees for the most part. A few have gone further. I have approached the friends that I am clse with and expressed my concerns. As usual, they deny my allegations and tout whatever lines that a 3rd degree is told to tout, which is as always a lie that they believe.

I have bought multiple copies of a few different books and given them to people that I care about who are involved in the FMC, and none of them have read a single sentence from the books. The refuse to do any research on it, outside of kosher FMC writings, and they constantly use Bullshit gobble-de-goop from their "emergency book" entitled "The pilgrims path, which is a laughable attempt at refuting proofs that the FMC is an anti-Christian organization.
So be it. The Father has his own plans for them.

The lodge even sent one of my old friends to visit me, under the pretense of "catching up" and "having a beer", but at the end of the night he made his true intentions known, which was to try and convince me that the FMC is not what I say is is, and that I should not believe the writings of Pike, Hall and others. Haha!

Whatever. Just last week I loaned Eppersons book to a co-worker. He set it down on the counter in the bathroom while he was in there, and when he came to the counter to wash his hands, it was stolen. Typical. So I have been praying that whoever has stolen it will read the book, come to their senses, and return it to me.

Anywyays, I got off track, but yeah: The FMC is an satanic cult at its core.




I am not a christian. I've read the bible all the way through (KJV), and wouldn't be opposed to believing, IF I could manage to do so. As of yet, I cannot. Every since I was a child I thought the God of the Bible seemed way too human and limited.

Yeah, masonry is "luciferian"... But that doesn't necessarily equal devil worship. Anyone who says they "seek light" could be said to be "luciferian".

Pike and Hall et al make a lot of references to Light and Truth. That's where the "luciferian" stuff comes in; Lucifer means light-bearer. Satan means adversary. They don't talk about Satan, and don't often talk directly of Lucifer. I'm pretty sure they don't believe in Lucifer as an entity; to them, Lucifer is merely a symbol of Light, Truth, Knowledge. I don't think they believe in Satan as an entity either.

The masonic notion of God is all-encompassing. There is nothing outside of God. Good and evil are both part of God and God's Design. The masonic god is the same as the kabbalist's "Ain Soph". Any notion of God without limit is the God of masonry. The notion of good/evil being flip sides of the same coin is a somewhat dangerous notion, which is partly why the ancient mystery schools hid their beliefs from the mainstream... Unfortunately, the "secrets/mysteries" fell into the wrong hands (Modern Freemasonry), and lower masons are used by those at the top to further their agenda(s).

So, in my opinion, the hierarchy and structure of organized freemasonry is bad or evil, but some of the ideas they hold are not necessarily bad (though they could be used that way by unscrupulous people).

[Awoke]

Sounds like you're on your way to "illumination", brother.

I know you don't believe in Jesus, but the masons and the rest of the conspirators do. Be careful.

Last time I will say it: Satan is Lucifer. Lucifer is Satan.

[sirgonzo420]

Sounds like you're on your way to "illumination", brother.

I know you don't believe in Jesus, but the masons and the rest of the conspirators do. Be careful.

Last time I will say it: Satan is Lucifer. Lucifer is Satan.


LOL, you don't have to worry about me joining a Lodge or anything! I still gag when I see masonic regalia/symbols on peoples' cars and such.

But I do not fear Truth.

I know Theosophy is not popular here, and I am no Theosophist, but I can't knock their motto:

http://brianakira.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/theosophy-seal-green1.jpg


"There is no religion higher than Truth."




I realize that world government/NWO/communism/all that shit is being run essentially by "luciferians", and I by no means support that, but there is some truth to SOME of their beliefs. They just try to use their beliefs to justify doing things that honestly good people wouldn't or couldn't do. They figure the end justifies the means.

"It'll all work out in the end"... that's something I agree with the "lucies" on... except they think the "working out in the end" is a worldwide, totalitarian communist government that they run.

I know that the "working out in the end" is their eventual downfall.

[Horn]

The notion of good/evil being flip sides of the same coin is a somewhat dangerous notion,

Letting someone else flip that coin for you, is even more dangerous.

The notion of original sin, is the death of the human race.

[cthulu]

I have heard That lucifer is Christ or viceversa not that I subscribe to it.


Where did you hear something like that?


google "christ is lucifer". there's plenty of references. The notion that lucifer is the devil or satan or that 2000 years ago someone was named "jesus christ" are both absurd. I'm just saying.

[MAGNES]

I know Theosophy is not popular here, and I am no Theosophist, but I can't knock their motto:



That is not truth, you seem to be years behind on your reading and clueless on all this,
and that's coming from a friend of yours.

I have posted a lot on all this and you never bothered to counter what I post.

They believe in black magic and all sorts of other sick beliefs.

That symbol you have no problem with is a black magic symbol of power to the sick minded.

They play with numbers too and kill people using them.

They corrupt history and attack important Western leaders, promote aliens,
one world government, promote nonsense and jibberish based on nothing
but their own fantasies.

That is their truth that you are for you are saying ?

Masonry and " theo sophists " overlap and did so on gim as well promoting an agenda on there.

They are anti Western and can be accurately described as Oriental Depostism, their beliefs.

Total anti thesis to Western Ideas and Philosophy and through deceit work to destroy from within.

" by their works ye shall know them "

Did you ever bother to read my accounts of confrontation with skyvike and goldisimma ?

It's very revealing.

You can't be Pro West and believe in this shit. They are not.

They seek to destroy White Western Christian European Man.

It's all Jew bullshit. All of it, Pike one of the leaders.

Even on SF they get outed strongly, some of the best threads I have ever seen.

[Low Pan]

Sounds like you're on your way to "illumination", brother.

I know you don't believe in Jesus, but the masons and the rest of the conspirators do. Be careful.

Last time I will say it: Satan is Lucifer. Lucifer is Satan.


LOL, you don't have to worry about me joining a Lodge or anything! I still gag when I see masonic regalia/symbols on peoples' cars and such.

But I do not fear Truth.

I know Theosophy is not popular here, and I am no Theosophist, but I can't knock their motto:

http://brianakira.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/theosophy-seal-green1.jpg


"There is no religion higher than Truth."




I realize that world government/NWO/communism/all that shit is being run essentially by "luciferians", and I by no means support that, but there is some truth to SOME of their beliefs. They just try to use their beliefs to justify doing things that honestly good people wouldn't or couldn't do. They figure the end justifies the means.

"It'll all work out in the end"... that's something I agree with the "lucies" on... except they think the "working out in the end" is a worldwide, totalitarian communist government that they run.

I know that the "working out in the end" is their eventual downfall.


What Masons say, and what they do are two different things.

[Low Pan]

Here is what an average ranked Mason believes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBjOs-egFMs

[MAGNES]

I was going to put up some links, I am tired of that, truth is people here interested should
have already read them or bookmarked them, so I won't bother again.

But I posted 2 screens above, both from masonic books , manuals written for masons.

Third degree masons site the name of demon gods, Jah Bul On, Bul from their own admission
is Baal.

Where does this go ? It's huge. Human sacrifice of children in ancient times, Jesus may
have rebelled against this, not for animal sacrifice or money changing but human sacrifice
of children. Roman and Greek accounts have proven correct.

Go research Theo Sophists yourselves, even wiki links I gave destroy them.

You can shut down discussion as they deceive you just by mentioning the
witches name which I hate to type and spell right, that is why I call her Blat witch.

Plato is their number one target to corrupt , he and his works are The West .

Total anti thesis of what they stand for.

http://i53.tinypic.com/290vvhf.jpg

[Low Pan]

Plato is their number one target to corrupt , he and his works are The West .

yup, they aim to bring about their version of Plato's "Republic".

[dys]

The following story is the 100% undiluted truth:

A few months ago a friend of mine that I believe is a Mason gave me a book to read. This friend was very insistent that I borrow the book even though it was obvious that I wasn't interested in it. Every week or so, she would pester me to read it. Eventually I decided that my friend had some kind of agenda and that is why she wanted me to read the book. As soon as I opened it up to read, I observed that the sentence construction, storyline, and character development of the book were totally nonsensical and disjointed. On top of that, there were a ton of Jewish and occultic references. It was obvious that this book was trying to say something other than what it purported to be saying (by the way it was a book about the holocaust in case anyone is wondering). I decided to do some research regarding the author, publisher, artist, etc...as well as some of the suspicious sounding names of the characters of the book. I grabbed the laptop and started googling away. About 10 seconds after doing my first google search, my home phone rang from a blocked number and no one was on the other end. I hang up, did another google search, got another phone call. This happened several times. This happened between the hours of 9:30-10:30pm.

I eventually stopped searching as I was getting pretty freaked out (the prank phone calls stopped as soon as I stopped searching). A few months later, I read this book on mind control (highly recommended) http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/illuminati_formula_mind_control.htm
According to the book, there are 'trigger books' out there that operate via hidden meanings and programming. Was that book that my friend gave me a trigger book? I don't know for sure, but I do know that I will be extremely careful with masonic books of any kind in the future.

dys

ps- I posted this on another thread, but it's worth repeating: in addition to theosophy, also watch out for discordiansim and especially thelema.

[MAGNES]

Lots of key links here.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/the-zeitgeist-movementvenus-project-is-a-united-nations-front!/

Read this thread. After this thread she openly began posting about lucifer.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/parallel-universes-exist-time-travel-possible-(tough-one-for-religions)/

Read first link above how I began to question what they were posting.

They will promote this crap in person and lie in person.

A lucifer lover Braden posted by goldie the theosophist mo totally who later posts on lucifer
posts garbage and lies about constantine and later takes shots at Charles the Great, he is a
mason, Plato is a mason too, ROFL ! Skyvike emails me back, he knows Plato the mathmatician,
rofl, I don't, lol, they use numbers for " magical " purposes. Sarge was posting a lot about this
on agora, a very knowledgable poster way ahead of everyone. The demon worshippers don't
believe in good teachings as they corrupt but black magic and stupidity.

[MAGNES]

yup, they aim to bring about their version of Plato's "Republic".


Plato does not lay down the law on any society, as described by historians,
" plato concerns himself with justice and the moral state " .

One Prof asks, What does plato say or believe, nothing.

The process is the education. Thinking , questioning.

Even the Romans had a problem with this and " sophist " became semi dirty name.

Plato had a problem with the Iliad and Odyssey, questioned them, that is not Justice.

There are 3 societies Plato has up for discussion or 4, lol, from my count.

What Plato writes about is not possible, he destroys his own creation,
what he is doing, questioning would not be possible, as he promotes
questioning as key, being involved, not being an idiot, ie, apathetic,
without this evil overcomes the government. Plato states he himself
would be killed. He goes full circle, starts all this cause of Socrates.

People corrupt Plato and deceive people on his works, I just did 2 major
podcasts and look at my own copy of The Republic, not an easy work to
read, even NeoCons corrupt Plato, Strauss, make him a communist.

The Cave I posted above is The Matrix.

You are all Philosopher Kings, take your fellow man out of the Cave to see the light.

Apollo's light.

Do not be deceived by the puppet masters.

A historian on Plato, Philosophy PHD and University Prof,
" it will take you 3 or 4 reads with direction to begin to understand " .

It is hard to read and boring even, I would not recommend it as reading,
I did have a big thread on the Classics, I recommended picking up more
than one copy and reading the preface and intro of different authors,
translation, and time period, what do they highlight, that alone is a very
educational exercise, since then I have done more but my initial advice is
stands.

I posted Plato's Cave on here a few times, people don't know what I am posting it seems.

That is disappointing, considering one of the versions I found on gim by a member,
the cartoon stick one, that's funny and real at times, beat your buddy and drag him
out if you have too.

Who is the Philosopher King on this microcausm of society.

Gaillo is.

[dys]

Magnes-

You know me, you know that I am no Mason and you know I'm a follower of Jesus Christ... I have to say one thing: in the past I have strongly suspected that Plato was a Mason. Now, it's been a long time since I've looked into it, a couple of years anyway, and I will definetely revisit it. Of course I could be wrong, but usually my instincts about this stuff are pretty good.

dys

[MAGNES]

Magnes-


This is modern garbage, what they do is corrupt him, there is even a book that they wrote saying this.

Masons and the Occult burrow from many to corrupt, symbols, history, etc, it's all mumbo jumbo,

Plato would shit on them, matter of fact he did, their kind.

Reason Vs Black Magic

You should have a close look at my post above.

You want references, will take some work.

The Blat Witch hates Plato and the Greeks,
calls them heathens, their language heathen,
as she goes on to use Greek language,
The Sophist, this alone is corruption by association.
There is nothing Theo or even Sophist about them.

Do people here believe in Justice, one word describes
our societies, and what the Occult stands against.

These images are even in physical metals that have not
changed much over the thousands of years.

[chud]

I've been meaning to get a copy for a while now, but haven't felt like spending $50 or $60 on one.

The other day I found a copy at my local used bookstore for $7!

I bought it and have since been reading through it and so far it is not what I imagined it would be.

It's pretty damn interesting so far - and I'm a non-mason (and if anything, an anti-mason)!


Has anyone here actually read it?


Or do any masons wanna out themselves? lol


Masonry is evil. My advice is to throw that book into the fire.

[MAGNES]

I know Theosophy is not popular here, and I am no Theosophist, but I can't knock their motto:

http://brianakira.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/theosophy-seal-green1.jpg


"There is no religion higher than Truth."


What truth do they promote first of all ?

What did they teach us ?

This witch actually lives, many NGO's doing her work.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madame_Blavatsky

The three declared objects of the original Theosophical Society as established by Blavatsky, Judge and Olcott were as follows:

* First � To form a nucleus of the Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, caste, or color.

[MAGNES]

Masonry is evil. My advice is to throw that book into the fire.


I would say they are pretty fucked up and the top is evil.

The rest are what Pike and the top say, they have contempt for them deceiving them.

I wouldn't throw it away, apparently Pike has a lot of works people are not aware of.

Trying to understand what they are about is easy, they are about corruption of everything.

If someone is looking for a title let me know. Most likely I have it or can find it. Or give sources.

Scrib was good for all this but no more, they destroyed it as source.

We ain't alone in outing the freaks, gets taken down, army ready to re up.

THEY FEAR APOLLO'S LIGHT , PLATO'S LIGHT , TRUE LIGHT .

Like vampires, and yes folks, silver does kill them.

[dys]

I will look into it.

dys





Magnes-


This is modern garbage, what they do is corrupt him, there is even a book that they wrote saying this.

Masons and the Occult burrow from many to corrupt, symbols, history, etc, it's all mumbo jumbo,

Plato would shit on them, matter of fact he did, their kind.

Reason Vs Black Magic

You should have a close look at my post above.

You want references, will take some work.

The Blat Witch hates Plato and the Greeks,
calls them heathens, their language heathen,
as she goes on to use Greek language,
The Sophist, this alone is corruption by association.
There is nothing Theo or even Sophist about them.

Do people here believe in Justice, one word describes
our societies, and what the Occult stands against.

These images are even in physical metals that have not
changed much over the thousands of years.

[sirgonzo420]

I know Theosophy is not popular here, and I am no Theosophist, but I can't knock their motto:



That is not truth, you seem to be years behind on your reading and clueless on all this,
and that's coming from a friend of yours.

I have posted a lot on all this and you never bothered to counter what I post.

They believe in black magic and all sorts of other sick beliefs.

They might believe in black magic and stuff but I don't.

I was just saying "THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH". I can't disagree with that statement, can you? I may disagree with Theosophy's notion of Truth, but I can't deny that there is no religion higher than REAL TRUTH.


That symbol you have no problem with is a black magic symbol of power to the sick minded.

That may be, but it doesn't mean a whole lot to me; I just liked the motto under it. Besides, the swastika is pretty much the oldest Indo-European (Aryan) symbol anyway.


They play with numbers too and kill people using them.

Not sure what you are referring to here...


They corrupt history and attack important Western leaders, promote aliens,
one world government, promote nonsense and jibberish based on nothing
but their own fantasies.


Yes, I'll admit they do that, and I DON'T SUPPORT THEM OR THEIR ACTIONS!


That is their truth that you are for you are saying ?

No, not at all. I seek Absolute Truth, not someone else's. I just agree with theosophists in that there are no religions higher than TRUTH.

TRUTH trumps everything.


Masonry and " theo sophists " overlap and did so on gim as well promoting an agenda on there.

They are anti Western and can be accurately described as Oriental Depostism, their beliefs.

Total anti thesis to Western Ideas and Philosophy and through deceit work to destroy from within.

" by their works ye shall know them "


Did you ever bother to read my accounts of confrontation with skyvike and goldisimma ?

It's very revealing.

You can't be Pro West and believe in this shit. They are not.

They seek to destroy White Western Christian European Man.

It's all Jew Bullshit. All of it, Pike one of the leaders.

Even on SF they get outed strongly, some of the best threads I have ever seen.




They may seek to destroy White Western Christian European Man, but I don't. Although I'm not sure christianity has been the *best* influence on white european man...


I don't believe in what they (Theosophists) believe, but I do acknowledge the existence of something so vast and awesome so as to escape virtually all understanding by man, that which men have called "God". Some people call it "Nature" or "the laws of nature", but there is something that keeps the universe in existence, even if it's just the universe itself.

The sun pulls constantly at the earth, but the speed of the earth's orbit around the sun is perfect to keep it in a precise balance. There are innumerable examples of balance, harmony, beauty, etc, etc, in the universe. There is an order; a PLAN.


What do you believe, Magnes? You champion the cause of white western christian man, are you a christian?

[sirgonzo420]

By the way, Plato was an 'adept' of the mystery schools.

[MAGNES]

Friend, I am more open on what I believe than most on here, I have posted a lot.

This stuff drives me for a reason, please go to the links above and read them,
see how one of them plays out, it starts with questions, starts with another
nonsense post corrupting history and a key leader.

I don't care if I stand alone and sound like a loon, I told goldie that on here,
I told them that on gim, and I am saying that right now. But I know I am not
alone. People know the truth and this stench comes from gim, FRED got it too
before anyone.

That talisman is described by the blat witch as very powerful high black magic.
666 being crowned by the destroyers of nations. A corruption
again. You don't see that nor the parallels to something positive.

You go from Pike to "theosophist", fryer to fire.

I despise Pike and I despise the Blat witch, for good reasons,
when you read some of the Blat witch works, their works just
make more sense.

Human Achievement, Merit, Justice, Good Works, being mocked.

They even took shots are Charles the Great. And they want truth. lol

How many times have you seen me post something positive on the West
especially Charles the Great, it counters their lies and they hate him too,
that is what the West needs now, another Charles the Great, you claim
to be related to them.

They want us under their feet.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/eustace-mullins-new-history-of-the-jews/

[MAGNES]

By the way, Plato was an 'adept' of the mystery schools.


You are lost in space, everything out in the open is what he was about.

Plato opened real schools and universities.

Not the garbage masons believe secret knowledge on how to corrupt.

Jews built shit, they destroyed the Library of Alexandria, this is the kind of
crap goldie was posting.

You talk about mystery schools from corruptors versions, fact is nobody
knows what they taught, and it was not good, anyone that tells you they
know is a liar, scholars don't know, experts don't know. Some were very
bad liky dionysium, some references.

I posted Plato's Cave above.

Unbelievable.

[sirgonzo420]

I agree with you, Magnes. The Theosophists and Masons are up to no good. I agree with you, and I don't support them.

All I was saying is that Morals & Dogma is an interesting book and I stand by that remark. It IS interesting. Spackled with goobledegook, but there are some nuggets of truth to some of it.


There is no religion higher than TRUTH.

I don't follow Theosophy, but dammit, there aren't any religions higher than TRUTH!

[sirgonzo420]

By the way, Plato was an 'adept' of the mystery schools.


You are lost in space, everything out in the open is what he was about.

Plato opened real schools and universities.

Jews built shit, they destroyed the Library of Alexandria, the authors of your knowledge on mystery schools.

Not the garbage masons believe secret knowledge on how to corrupt.

You talk about mystery schools from corruptors versions, fact is nobody
knows what they taught, and it was not good, anyone that tells you they
know is a liar, scholars don't know, experts don't know. Some were very
bad liky dionysium, some references.

I posted Plato's Cave above.

Unbelievable.




I think I know what the original mystery schools were all about.


About anyone today could eat a few hits of good LSD or a handful of a particular species of mushroom and find out for himself.



(now, I'll admit I wasn't present in ancient Greece, but I know for a fact that psychedelics can teach some "mysteries")


By the way, I see Plato's cave allegory as being comparable to the mystery schools themselves, and the fact that many people would prefer to stay in the cave (which would be the "profane" in the mystery school lingo).

[Antonio]

By the way, Plato was an 'adept' of the mystery schools.


You are lost in space, everything out in the open is what he was about.

Plato opened real schools and universities.

Jews built shit, they destroyed the Library of Alexandria, the authors of your knowledge on mystery schools.

Not the garbage masons believe secret knowledge on how to corrupt.

You talk about mystery schools from corruptors versions, fact is nobody
knows what they taught, and it was not good, anyone that tells you they
know is a liar, scholars don't know, experts don't know. Some were very
bad liky dionysium, some references.

I posted Plato's Cave above.

Unbelievable.




I think I know what the original mystery schools were all about.


About anyone today could eat a few hits of good LSD or a handful of a particular species of mushroom and find out for himself.



(now, I'll admit I wasn't present in ancient Greece, but I know for a fact that psychedelics can teach some "mysteries")


By the way, I see Plato's cave allegory as being comparable to the mystery schools themselves, and the fact that many people would prefer to stay in the cave (which would be the "profane" in the mystery school lingo).


I`m scared shitless of acid, had it slipped on me and had a horrible experience. I doubt that one can attain enlightenment thru any drug, unless previously pretty enlightened.

Unfortunately masonry relies on homosexual orgies in order to attain "enlightenment",good luck with that.

[Low Pan]

yup, they aim to bring about their version of Plato's "Republic".


Plato does not lay down the law on any society, as described by historians,
" plato concerns himself with justice and the moral state " .

One Prof asks, What does plato say or believe, nothing.

The process is the education. Thinking , questioning.


Even the Romans had a problem with this and " sophist " became semi dirty name.

Plato had a problem with the Iliad and Odyssey, questioned them, that is not Justice.

There are 3 societies Plato has up for discussion or 4, lol, from my count.

What Plato writes about is not possible, he destroys his own creation,
what he is doing, questioning would not be possible, as he promotes
questioning as key, being involved, not being an idiot, ie, apathetic,
without this evil overcomes the government. Plato states he himself
would be killed. He goes full circle, starts all this cause of Socrates.

People corrupt Plato and deceive people on his works, I just did 2 major
podcasts and look at my own copy of The Republic, not an easy work to
read, even NeoCons corrupt Plato, Strauss, make him a communist.

The Cave I posted above is The Matrix.

You are all Philosopher Kings, take your fellow man out of the Cave to see the light.

Apollo's light.

Do not be deceived by the puppet masters.

A historian on Plato, Philosophy PHD and University Prof,
" it will take you 3 or 4 reads with direction to begin to understand " .

It is hard to read and boring even, I would not recommend it as reading,
I did have a big thread on the Classics, I recommended picking up more
than one copy and reading the preface and intro of different authors,
translation, and time period, what do they highlight, that alone is a very
educational exercise, since then I have done more but my initial advice is
stands.

I posted Plato's Cave on here a few times, people don't know what I am posting it seems.

That is disappointing, considering one of the versions I found on gim by a member,
the cartoon stick one, that's funny and real at times, beat your buddy and drag him
out if you have too.

Who is the Philosopher King on this microcausm of society.

Gaillo is.









I have always likened Plato's "Guardians" in the Republic to the Templar Knights, Masons, Illuminate, etc

[DMac]

"There is no religion higher than Truth"

This is one of those phrases that sounds wise but in reality doesn't mean anything. Religion is a set of beliefs - belief and truth are separate. By elevating belief to truth you are corrupting truth. Illumination through theosophy and the mystery religions is a fancy way of rationalizing this process. Selling it through symbols is similar to me to the way Madison Ave sells sex through advertising. We all have a desire, some larger than others, to know. Secret methods for unlocking reason is a big red flag for me. That is how the best deceit is accomplished.

The nature of man's learning and experiences over time have led to many new truths replacing the old truths. God is supposed to be the constant. Elevating worship of beliefs as "truths" over God is part of the corruption Blavatsky and other deceivers are attempting to achieve.

For example:

1200 AD - the world is flat. Truth.

2011 AD - the world is an oblate spheroids (ellipsoid). Truth

2500 AD - the world is a fractal construct emanating from a photonic core within the 17th dimension. Truth (or something like that :D)


The Allegory of the Cave synopsis (http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm)(for those reading that are not familiar, or who have been misled on its meaning).


The point of Plato's Cave is that it is the responsibility of all to teach how to reason, that the ability for reason is within us all and to not to be told the "what is". This is how we become knowers. As I tried to illustrate above with what we have thought of as truth, Plato recognized there was more to the physical world than what we call reality. This is part of the point to the cave. On the whole, we do not know what we think we know.

Where people (mistakenly, IMO) attribute a secrecy or mystery school adherence to Plato is in his admiration for the Pythagoreans (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pythagoreanism/). I think that is a topic for another thread.

[sirgonzo420]

"There is no religion higher than Truth"

This is one of those phrases that sounds wise but in reality doesn't mean anything. Religion is a set of beliefs - belief and truth are separate. By elevating belief to truth you are corrupting truth.

Perhaps I view the sentence differently. I don't take it to mean that Truth itself is a "religion"; but that Truth is higher than ALL religions. I can't disagree with that. Absolute Truth may be unknowable in toto, but it is still about the "highest" "thing" there is, and no religion can truly touch it.


Illumination through theosophy and the mystery religions is a fancy way of rationalizing this process. Selling it through symbols is similar to me to the way Madison Ave sells sex through advertising. We all have a desire, some larger than others, to know. Secret methods for unlocking reason is a big red flag for me. That is how the best deceit is accomplished.

Yes, the secrecy is sketchy and dangerous, but some of the ideas aren't completely false.



The nature of man's learning and experiences over time have led to many new truths replacing the old truths. God is supposed to be the constant. Elevating worship of beliefs as "truths" over God is part of the corruption Blavatsky and other deceivers are attempting to achieve.

For example:

1200 AD - the world is flat. Truth.

2011 AD - the world is an oblate spheroids (ellipsoid). Truth

2500 AD - the world is a fractal construct emanating from a photonic core within the 17th dimension. Truth (or something like that :D)

Agreed. Which is why Absolute Truth is pretty much unknowable to man. But it still exists. The Truth is out there! LOL!

The "Truth" is what allows (or makes) everything to be the way it is.


The Allegory of the Cave synopsis (http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm)(for those reading that are not familiar, or who have been misled on its meaning).


The point of Plato's Cave is that it is the responsibility of all to teach how to reason, that the ability for reason is within us all and to not to be told the "what is". This is how we become knowers. As I tried to illustrate above with what we have thought of as truth, Plato recognized there was more to the physical world than what we call reality. This is part of the point to the cave. On the whole, we do not know what we think we know.

Agreed.


Where people (mistakenly, IMO) attribute a secrecy or mystery school adherence to Plato is in his admiration for the Pythagoreans (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pythagoreanism/). I think that is a topic for another thread.



I'm a bit rusty on pythagoreans, and it's been years since I've read Plato... if you start a thread I'll check it out though.

:)

[dys]

I'd like to make some general comments on Satanic deception.

First of all, deception in the form of a book is a tactic as opposed to a strategy. This is important in that the strategy has already worked once the individual picks up the book. Think chess...the opening was designed to get the victim to expose a certain piece or pieces to vulnerability. Once the piece is vulnerable, a tactic is employed to capture the piece. Thus, the book is aimed at the person that picked it up.
The tactic is to mix truth with lies. If you are a smart and moral person, the tactic will be to use MOSTLY truth. The lie is designed to get you just a little off track, one step the wrong way. Think gradualism, incremental change, mission creep. So I often hear things like:
"take what you want out of it and throw away the bad."
or
"the book contains a lot of truth."

Here is the problem- are you going to be able to discern what is true and what is the lie? Remember, the book was designed specifically for YOU! The inspiration to the book was supernatural. I have news for you, Satan is smarter than you are! I don't care how smart you are, Satanic books are snares and reading them is walking right into an ambush. I know what I'm talking about, because I've lived it.

dys

[MAGNES]

I have always likened Plato's "Guardians" in the Republic to the Templar Knights, Masons, Illuminate, etc


Low Pan , I think you and I are on the same side of the arguments above, what you posted here
is wrong, if you stated " the total opposite " it would be correct, I am no expert here but the general
brush strokes I know and am careful not to say things I don't know, I had to look this up to refresh
my memory even,

The Guardians, no property, no gold, no wealth, they are not allowed to attain anything,
the reason for this is you remove all motives for corruption, Plato is putting this out there
for discussion, just like his whole work, the process is the education, this is a hypothetical,
what if, then these Guardians would do the right thing, protect and govern society, and even
act as soldiers. The total and exact opposite of the occult and masons that work secretly to
corrupt society, if Rothchild and his minions were to be Guardians of Plato's society, they would
need to have all their wealth stripped of them, even still they would need to answer to crimes.
http://www.philosophypages.com/hy/2g.htm

Even wikipedia does a good job explaining for now. Sounds like Masons to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republic_(Plato)
The Republic (Greek: Πολιτεία, Politeia) is a Socratic dialogue written by Plato sometime around 380 BC concerning the definition of justice and the order and character of the just city and the just man.[1] It is Plato’s best-known work and has proven to be one of the most intellectually and historically influential works of philosophy and political theory.[2][3] In it, Socrates along with various Athenians and foreigners discuss the meaning of justice and examine whether or not the just man is happier than the unjust man by proposing a city ruled by philosopher-kings. The participants also discuss the theory of forms, the immortality of the soul, and the roles of the philosopher and of poetry in society.[4]

Different profs in university treat these issues different but in general the same.
This is why my advice on studying is good, get different versions, different translation,
author, period, get one from 100 years ago, read the intro and preface and have a
look at what is highlighted, only then begin to read if you are interested, you can also
read sections, they stand on their own in some cases, you don't need to start from
part 1 etc.

Plato is a blood relative of Solon, this is important to understand, what Solon did.

The " theosophists" and masons do target plato, corrupt him, their total opposite,
you cannot separate Plato from the West and Western Philosophy and even Christianity.
The Occult knows what they are doing.

“The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it
consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.” Whitehead, referenced by quite a few scholars
on this for a reason. Plato was a product of the society he lived in, and it all started with
Hesiod and Hales ... a progression, and never ended to major European Philosophers and
Church Fathers.

[MAGNES]

The NeoCons tell a lot of truth , so what, Poddy writes a book full of truth, so what.

Last thing I am going to do is read and promote their books, I know how their deceptions work.

It's nothing new.

@ everyone above, the symbol is satanic, 666 is being crowned by the serpent,
different levels of corruption here, the Greeks and their ways are key targets, it
is all Jews behind all of this too, instead of crowning merit, victory, achievement,
the way crowning works, they crown the hex symbol with the serpent, this fits
with all the other ripoffs they do and crown, like the UN logo, the sacred oak of
Zeus the Justice giver being replaced by the serpent representing Satan, crowning
the " star of david ", these are not accidents, crowning black magic, they openly
talk of it being a " talisman " with black magic properties. They believe in the power
of a symbol which brings us back to the numbers they use for these reasons,
11 11 11, 9 11 , 13, 33, etc, and on and on.

Satan's truth, " you got your god's mixed up " Masonic Plot

Satanic Symbol
http://brianakira.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/theosophy-seal-green1.jpg

All masonry is Jewish.
http://i56.tinypic.com/a3l1ug.gif

A high level medal to the mason stooges.
http://i52.tinypic.com/2q222wk.jpg

In Greek, it says, " gnosis ", which translates to knowledge, from the masters of darkness and corruption.
Through this they even corrupt in other ways I have not even mentioned. The snake/serpent what it represented to Jews vs the society they targetted. The Serpent represents Satan.

http://i52.tinypic.com/2ps51tw.jpg

Overlapping stars of david, hex, 666, in the rosette.
Translation for code is, " for you ". Referring to Lucifer/Satan in death.
Code translation is easy, blocks online to decipher.

http://i53.tinypic.com/5kj40j.jpg

2 MAJOR CORRUPTIONS, CROWNING THEIR WORKS, 13, 33, 13, 33

http://i51.tinypic.com/2nm2nps.jpg

AN OPEN BAAL WORSHIPPER, Rothchild bitch, a big fan of Plato and Solon . ROFL !
http://i56.tinypic.com/t7h24p.jpg

[DMac]

Solon is my favorite Greek.

[MAGNES]

Solon is my favorite Greek.


Breaker of all debt contracts and destroyer of the mortgage stones, outlawing debt slavery,
creator of separation of powers, representation, creator of institutions encouraging citizen
participation, by law even, law courts, citizen jouries, trials, destroyer of the Oligarchy, the founding
fathers of the USA knew him and his works well, ... , he lives today, even John K quotes Solon in his
famous speech that got him killed, against secret societies.

JFK Blows The Whistle on Secret Societies!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnkdfFAqsHA

[Libertytree]

Most interesting discussion gentlemen, I appreciate being able to read it and learn from all of your vast personal knowledge bases. Thank you all.

[drafter]

I've read the Bible. Doesn't mean I believe half of it. Interesting book none the less. Nothing wrong with expanding ones knowledge. Only the individual can decide what he chooses to believe in matters of "faith".

[Low Pan]

I have always likened Plato's "Guardians" in the Republic to the Templar Knights, Masons, Illuminate, etc


Low Pan , I think you and I are on the same side of the arguments above, what you posted here
is wrong, if you stated " the total opposite " it would be correct, I am no expert here but the general
brush strokes I know and am careful not to say things I don't know, I had to look this up to refresh
my memory even,

The Guardians, no property, no gold, no wealth, they are not allowed to attain anything,
the reason for this is you remove all motives for corruption, Plato is putting this out there
for discussion, just like his whole work, the process is the education, this is a hypothetical,
what if, then these Guardians would do the right thing, protect and govern society, and even
act as soldiers. The total and exact opposite of the occult and masons that work secretly to
corrupt society, if Rothchild and his minions were to be Guardians of Plato's society, they would
need to have all their wealth stripped of them, even still they would need to answer to crimes.
http://www.philosophypages.com/hy/2g.htm

Even wikipedia does a good job explaining for now. Sounds like Masons to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republic_(Plato)
The Republic (Greek: Πολιτεία, Politeia) is a Socratic dialogue written by Plato sometime around 380 BC concerning the definition of justice and the order and character of the just city and the just man.[1] It is Plato’s best-known work and has proven to be one of the most intellectually and historically influential works of philosophy and political theory.[2][3] In it, Socrates along with various Athenians and foreigners discuss the meaning of justice and examine whether or not the just man is happier than the unjust man by proposing a city ruled by philosopher-kings. The participants also discuss the theory of forms, the immortality of the soul, and the roles of the philosopher and of poetry in society.[4]

Different profs in university treat these issues different but in general the same.
This is why my advice on studying is good, get different versions, different translation,
author, period, get one from 100 years ago, read the intro and preface and have a
look at what is highlighted, only then begin to read if you are interested, you can also
read sections, they stand on their own in some cases, you don't need to start from
part 1 etc.

Plato is a blood relative of Solon, this is important to understand, what Solon did.

The " theosophists" and masons do target plato, corrupt him, their total opposite,
you cannot separate Plato from the West and Western Philosophy and even Christianity.
The Occult knows what they are doing.

“The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it
consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.” Whitehead, referenced by quite a few scholars
on this for a reason. Plato was a product of the society he lived in, and it all started with
Hesiod and Hales ... a progression, and never ended to major European Philosophers and
Church Fathers.


you are most certainly correct RE Plato's stance. H/e what I am inferring is that the Elite took his controls for ruling (i.e. telling the people what jobs they are to do, who to marry, when to mate, what is to be told in schools, what music is allowed, etc. to control not just the people but the population) and incorporated it on a grand scale (the known world was much smaller in Plato's time). The Elite would never rid the world of debt. They've known for too long that is how to truly enslave people. Make them all indentured servants. I honestly thought the Republic was Plato's bid at a coup and his conversation (in the guise of Socrates) was him feeling out the nobles to determine what side they would be on. Or it could have been his way of immortalizing Socrates after Socrates was put the death. Either way I believe Plato had an ulterior motive and that the Elite use the Republic as the base for their framework to rule the masses, in their own way.

[MAGNES]

I have always likened Plato's "Guardians" in the Republic to the Templar Knights, Masons, Illuminate, etc


Low Pan , I think you and I are on the same side of the arguments above, what you posted here
is wrong, if you stated " the total opposite " it would be correct, I am no expert here but the general brush strokes I know and am careful not to say things I don't know, I had to look this up to refresh my memory even,

The Guardians, no property, no gold, no wealth, they are not allowed to attain anything,
the reason for this is you remove all motives for corruption, Plato is putting this out there
for discussion, just like his whole work, the process is the education, this is a hypothetical,
what if, then these Guardians would do the right thing, protect and govern society, and even
act as soldiers. The total and exact opposite of the occult and masons that work secretly to
corrupt society, if Rothchild and his minions were to be Guardians of Plato's society, they would
need to have all their wealth stripped of them, even still they would need to answer to crimes.
http://www.philosophypages.com/hy/2g.htm

Even wikipedia does a good job explaining for now. Sounds like Masons to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republic_(Plato (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republic_%28Plato))
The Republic (Greek: Πολιτεία, Politeia) is a Socratic dialogue written by Plato sometime around 380 BC concerning the definition of justice and the order and character of the just city and the just man.[1] It is Plato’s best-known work and has proven to be one of the most intellectually and historically influential works of philosophy and political theory.[2][3] In it, Socrates along with various Athenians and foreigners discuss the meaning of justice and examine whether or not the just man is happier than the unjust man by proposing a city ruled by philosopher-kings. The participants also discuss the theory of forms, the immortality of the soul, and the roles of the philosopher and of poetry in society.[4]

Different profs in university treat these issues different but in general the same.
This is why my advice on studying is good, get different versions, different translation,
author, period, get one from 100 years ago, read the intro and preface and have a
look at what is highlighted, only then begin to read if you are interested, you can also
read sections, they stand on their own in some cases, you don't need to start from
part 1 etc.

Plato is a blood relative of Solon, this is important to understand, what Solon did.

The " theosophists" and masons do target plato, corrupt him, their total opposite,
you cannot separate Plato from the West and Western Philosophy and even Christianity.
The Occult knows what they are doing.

“The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it
consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.” Whitehead, referenced by quite a few scholars
on this for a reason. Plato was a product of the society he lived in, and it all started with
Hesiod and Hales ... a progression, and never ended to major European Philosophers and
Church Fathers.


you are most certainly correct RE Plato's stance. H/e what I am inferring is that the Elite took his controls for ruling (i.e. telling the people what jobs they are to do, who to marry, when to mate, what is to be told in schools, what music is allowed, etc. to control not just the people but the population) and incorporated it on a grand scale (the known world was much smaller in Plato's time). The Elite would never rid the world of debt. They've known for too long that is how to truly enslave people. Make them all indentured servants. I honestly thought the Republic was Plato's bid at a coup and his conversation (in the guise of Socrates) was him feeling out the nobles to determine what side they would be on. Or it could have been his way of immortalizing Socrates after Socrates was put the death. Either way I believe Plato had an ulterior motive and that the Elite use the Republic as the base for their framework to rule the masses, in their own way.


Good points, some elite learn Classics, what works and what does not.

TPTB elite hate Plato, that is why he is corrupted deliberately, the very people this OP was
about, Pike "theosophy", etc, Plato is against elite control, like Solon his blood relative,
he is against the people that murdered Socrates for asking questions and getting people to think,
Socrates and Jesus have a lot in common, that is the setting to Plato's work, and the reasons for it.

Plato himself in these hypothetical worlds he constructs he destroys, he openly states it is
not possible, they would kill him , he and others like him, Socrates, going full circle could
not exist. Openness as opposed to occult hidden. The West vs Oriental Depotism, it is this thread.
Slaying tyrants was sport in the ancient world and a big part of everything we talked of above is part of Greek Mythology. Like these goddesses below. And their images are on PM's too.

Freedom, Justice, Peace, Good Order.

The Greeks were political animals, the very word politics comes from this,
they recognized man was a political animal, corrupt, and that
evil gravitated to power and control, and that you will never get rid of that ever, it is just a fact
of the world and nature, BUT, most are good, and just and you can educate them, they know the
answers, to do the right thing, and that they have to be involved in order to live in a just and
moral state, no involvement equals slow enslavement.

This is where the word, IDIOT comes from, " idiotes " in Greek, apathetic people are idiots,
not involved in the business of the city/state, they have no freedom and put their fate in
others hands, corrupt, Hesiod tells you where freedom comes from, it's base, and the
Founding Fathers of the USA totally ripped him off or maybe it is just a universal truth,
or both, lol, the Occult/Elite have gone after this base over and over, totally destroying
with rivers of blood and even creating dark ages.

Plato stands for Universal Western Truths that will never die so long as there is one
free man alive on the planet, total antithesis to Occult teachings, systems, beliefs and works.

And War and Peace are the same Goddess, No Justice, No Peace.

This is a threat to the corrupt puppet masters, posting this is like saying they should die.
We should kill them all. But people lost the meaning and think it is just some statue.
Plato would approve, and he would approve of physically stopping all conspirators.

Wielding Winged Victory, notice Winged Victory is ready to crown righteousness, the just,
to destroy the unjust, even those guilty of hubris, high public officials, these are not my
opinions, read Hesiod. The Occult uses the very same crowns to crown their works of evil.
Like the UN logo, like the " theo sophist " talisman using a serpent to crown 666.
All corruptions and levels of it.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2aheduf.jpg
MORE
http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/bill-would-make-some-airport-screening-sexual-assault/


The elite may study what works and do the opposite, I believe Rabbi's play that role.
That is the only secret knowledge that exists and few at the top have it.
That is what the Frankfurt School is, the Fabian Society, Tavistock, and Jewish.
And exist for the sole purpose of corruption and destruction of the West.
Only to name a few.

[sirgonzo420]

Bump because Magnes has been trying to contort my words a little bit lately...


I stand by everything I posted in this thread, and in general.

[sirgonzo420]

Bump because Magnes has been trying to contort my words a little bit lately...


I stand by everything I posted in this thread, and in general.

"déjà vu all over again"

;D


But seriously, I am still not a Mason, or member of any secret or occult organizations, or a jew, and I still stand by every word I've posted.

And if Magnes, (or anyone else) wants to have an actual *discussion*, then I would be more than happy to oblige them.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Wow, what a great thread full of TEACHING and DISCUSSION

Thanks for reminding me that we can learn without attacking one another.

My heart is inspired to redouble my efforts as well


Thanks for leading by example