The CAFR (Comprehensive Annual Financial Report) Thread

[lapis]

In "The Documentary: The Corporation Nation" thread (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/documentary-the-corporation-nation/msg191492/#msg191492), Santa reminded me of a great CAFR thread that used to be stickied at GIM1.

What is a CAFR and are you surprised you've never heard about it? Don't be.

It's the best example of something politically explosive hidden in plain sight.

You can google and download any government entity's CAFR. Yet this accounting report is never mentioned in the MSM (or really anywhere else--kudos to activists like Walter Burien for bringing it to the public's attention).

Here's some info. about it from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_annual_financial_report)(I know, I know, it's not the best place to get the most or best information on things, but it's okay for a starting point):

A Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR)found its first roots with the establishment of the "National Committee on Municipal Accounting" (or NCMA, a private association) in 1934. In 1946 standards transitioned into another private association, based in Chicago, called the Government Financial Officers Association[2]. The GFOA promoted and applied nationally, to government, the CAFR accounting practice. By the 1970s, the CAFR became the nationwide paradigm for local government accounting. The various levels of government, federal, state, local and municipal each began producing a CAFR in 1946 to catalog an accurate picture of: institutional funds, enterprise or financial holdings, assets and total investment incomes, for those government and nongovernmental entities using the report. This measure is above and beyond the budget process and replaced what was regularly an "off-the-books" practice called the "general fixed-asset account group". General Purpose government "Budget" reports did not reflect accounting of this financial data and in effect with the co-operation or silence of any media reports, hid these assets and investments from the public by only reporting on the budget or "rainy day" funds or pension fund investments.

Differences between General Budgets and the CAFR

The primary difference between a budget and the CAFR is that the Budget is a plan for the next period (often year) primarily showing where tax income is applied and the CAFR contains the results of the period (year) with previous years accumulations. The CAFR contains a section that provides a comparison of period budget and actual. Additionally the CAFR gives a detailed showing of investment accounts by category reflecting balances derived over many years.

A Government budget document is a blueprint for a "specific grouping" of government agencies' spending over the course of an annual financial period. General Purpose Budgets contain both the spending categories of specified units of government, such as school districts, social services, transportation, police, fire, and park services; along with estimates of revenues expected to occur during the year, such as investment return; overrides of money from the previous year, and tax payments. They are usually more limited to the expected costs of running the aforementioned government operations through tax income as opposed to describing the status of any government fixed assets and investment wealth.


A CAFR [5] by contrast is meant to report the complete overall financial results of both those "specific groupings" of government agencies that appear in the current fiscal year General Purpose Budget and all other agencies and departments. These can be autonomous, enterprise (for example government or city owned golf courses), recycling, water, sewer, and financial management - often these agencies were created with the inception of that local, state or government. The CAFR provides information about all of these other government agencies that may have their own budgets and separate investment accounts but their financial holdings are not combined with the general purpose budget that the same government presents to the public. The CAFR, or as it is called in CANADA CanFR [6] can be used along with a budget document to compare the organizations total financial standing to the annual general purpose budget. The CAFR is the complete showing of the financial investment and income records from all sources, that reflects what has developed over decades whereas a budget report is an inferior document to the CAFR being that it is primarily focused on what revenue is expected to be brought in and spent for just the year.

In summation, the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report shows the total of all financial accounting that the basic general purpose budget reports do not. To find your local City; County; School District; or State government's CAFR do a Google Search. As an example for the city of Los Angeles, CA put in the search line using quotes: "The City of Los Angeles" "Comprehensive Annual Financial Report" and it will yield the link to download it: http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=%22The+City+of+Los+Angeles%22+%22Comprehensive+A nnual+Financial+Report%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=610e7dd948e54cca

[...]

Recent history

From at least 1998, a former Commodities Trading Advisor (CTA) of fourteen years Walter Bubien [7] AKA Burien - CAFR1 [8], and a federal auditor of thirty years Gerald Klatt who died on his birthday July 11th 2004 as noted in the SS death index who was from Tucson, AZ [9] have made specific and detailed claims upon showings seen and from referencing within the now 184,000 local government CAFRs, AFRs and other Federal audit reports such as; Audit of the IRS [10]; US Treasury Audit of Bank derivative holdings (tables 1, 2, 3 on pages 22, 23, 24 show that the top three banks were trading and holding over 150 trillion dollars worth of derivatives, apparently in primarily government accounts)[11]; US Treasury Audit of Bank Mortgage holdings [12]; Federal Consolidated Financial Statements [13]; CAFR for the Federal Reserve [14]; local Government's CAFR[15].

How many governments exist in the United States? The 1997 Census of Government says it best... "There were 87,504 governmental units in the United States as of June 1997. In addition to the Federal Government and the 50 state governments, there were 87,453 units of local government. Of these, 39,044 are general purpose local governments - 3,043 county governments and 36,001 sub-county general purpose governments, including 13,726 school district governments and 34,683 special district governments."

Some have called these the "2nd set of books", but as Mr. Burien says, the CAFR is "the book" with the budget being a section contained therein. Their assessments of government assets, holdings and investment supporting globalism, ownership by government investment "for profit" and government's international investments profits, significantly enhanced with the use of the now 600 trillion dollar international derivatives markets with government investments strategically placed for profit from free trade, war, commodity market, stock market, International investment movement and extreme price volatility is created by these massive moves by "institutional government funds" speculators scattered around the globe manipulating the market either deliberately or by volume.

Since 1998, with the CAFR being brought to the attention of the public by the efforts of Walter Burien and Gerald Klatt [16] the Government Accounting Standards Board, a private organization whose guidelines for CAFR accounting are followed by local governments,[17] starting with transmittal letter 31 in 1999 and now up to transmittal letter 46 as of 2007) made changes. This resulted in claims that such changes are calculated steps to hide from the general public's view, massive domestic and international wealth; investment assets and authority "enterprise funds" all of which could be seen more visibly outlined in the combined financial columns of 1999 and previous CAFRs which required a showing of gross totals. The modifications in effect transitioned the accounting from a showing of gross totals to a showing of "net" totals as now noted in the CAFRs. Anyone who operates a business knows there is a very big difference between final figures expressed as "gross" or "net" accounting. These changes are being done with virtual secrecy due to the money involved and because of virtually no media attention on these issues.


While a budget might indicate that a specific government or agency has financial trouble and debt, because of excess spending or mismanagement within the select grouping of "general fund" accounts presented, the CAFR may indicate, that overall, the same government entity, has many facets possessing large holdings and income considerably greater than what is shown in a budget report or the "general fund" alone. A few examples from recent history include, Jesse Ventura's returning 1.8 billion dollars (from the 8 billion targeted by him) of the government surpluses to voters as governor of Minnesota. Another example, in 1994, Orange County California government lost about $1.5 Billion on investments in the now massive derivative market and claimed they needed to declare bankruptcy per their general purpose budget even while holding several billion(about 11.3 billion) in profitable holdings in their investment portfolios as seen in the CAFR. The University of Kentucky's holdings of 85% of CHA Health [3] insurance stock was exposed in 2005 in the Lexington Herald Leader newspaper when CHA was sold to a rival firm [4] as part of the UK president's effort to raise a billion dollars to fund becoming a "top 20" research university an ongoing effort; to name a few examples.

A more recent example of CAFR mention is when a congressman from Oregon Rep. Bruce Hanna in 2010 during general session when the floor was discussing what to do about the state's 3.5 billion dollar budget shortfall (fire employees, cut back on services, close state parks), stood up with the cover page from the state of Oregon CAFR in his hand and pointed out that in less than a few minutes he found 3.5 billion dollars to satisfy the state shortfall and poof, no shortfall when the dots were connected between the state CAFR and the previous selective presentation of the State general purpose operating budget.. This video is State Rep. Bruce Hanna, openly exposing the Oregon State CAFR surplus to the Oregon Legislature. A must see! -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ8YhJyxPQo

and then a comment on the same from the Oregon Republican party site -

http://www.oregonrepublicanparty.org/node/291

[lapis]

Here's the URL for Burien's CAFR site: http://cafr1.com/

Here's the link to subscribe to his newsletter: http://cafr1.com/phplist/?p=subscribe

This is a video of a talk Burien gave last year:

http://cafr1.com/Video/HFC.flv

This page has a long list of Burien's recent articles:

http://cafr1.com/Articles.html

[mick silver]

QUOTE OF THE DAY: "Rise and Rise again until Lambs become Lions"

[lapis]

"Is Our Government Bankrupt?" (http://cafr1.com/Bankrupt.html)

Analogies are fun to use:

Is the Colombian cocaine cartel short of cocaine?

- - - - -

The most important things to look at per government are the basics:

1. What was the income of that local government in 1998 - 2002 - 2005 - 2007 - 2010

EXAMPLE: Now if Bill Gates had a net worth and income of:

* In 1998 a net worth of 51 billion and 4 billion income.
* Then in 2002 a net worth of 56 billion and 5 billion income.
* Then for 2005 a net worth of 62 billion and income of 7 billion
* Then in 2007 a net worth of 71 billion and income of 8 billion
* But then in 2010 his net worth dropped to 65 billion and his income was now 6 billion, would he be crying "bankrupt"?

(Bill Gates Numbers above are for example use only):

Let's present this information above in two ways.

The first will be the way the government is presenting it:

1. Our income in 2010 has dropped down by almost 25% from 2007 and our losses brought our net worth down by 6 billion dollars, we have been severely damaged by the weakened economy since 2007 and must fire employees, raise taxes, and cut back services...

And now for a reality look and check using different parameters:

2. Our income from 1998 to 2010 has increased by 2 billion dollars (50% INCREASE) AND our net worth has increased by 14 billion dollars (about 35% INCREASE)

So on example #2 the key questions to ask yourself are:

1. What was the population increase from 1998 to 2010? If it was 12%, 18%, 20%, or 25% government by the numbers is clearly in the black.(in most cases it was probably under 15%)

2. What was the "real" rate of inflation from 1998 now adjusted for 2010? If 10% to 20% by the numbers government STILL is clearly in the black.

3. The last primary factor to look at is: What was the average increase in the population's income from 1998 to 2010 for comparison with the governments income increase?

Now these are the basics which of course a complete vacuum and void is created in the minds of the population due to the money involved. Focus your attention here to determine if you have a government that is a "for profit and a take-over machine" or a government "representative of the people's interests"

I have looked many a times and know in advance you will not be pleased with what you find when you look.

What is the difference in the presentation of the bankrupt scenario? ANS: A bunch of spoiled and ruthless yuppies of which most are attorneys greasing the skids as they dot the "I's" and cross the "T's" walking with as much cash as they can today as they with a strong arm also lock in the productivity value of the next five to seven generations. Their presentation of prospective has worked easily and grandly for them over the last 70 years and there is nothing of any consequence stopping them as of today so the beat goes on!

Government "plays" great paupers to the media for presentation to the public while at the same time having the net worth of a million Bill Gates. The perspective you are spoon feed from your government is NOT in your interests but in theirs as the US / local government financial "empires" continues to expand Worldwide..

__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

"I Love LA" and so do the local politicians, government attorneys, and their bloated pockets love LA also!


FOR THOSE FROM LA:

LA short of funds right? LA County's "budget" income = 17.5 billion dollars / year

For Los Angeles, the key issue not addressed per LA being short of funds is:

What were they bringing in for 2000, 2005, and now 2010 to see the reality of abuses per gross income.

What is Los Angeles County''s annual operating budget as of 2009?

Well it is 17.5 billion dollars and It is about time people started looking at the "true reality".

I bet you nor anyone living in LA County never knew LA County''s kitty was that big each year....

In other words: If they are bringing in equal to or more revenue than in 2000 or 2005, why the big cuts??? (too much greasing of the skids over the last five years probably)

For the "County" of LA CAFR - http://file.lacounty.gov/lac/cms1_141548.pdf

For the "City" of LA CAFR - http://controller.lacity.org/stellent/groups/ElectedOfficials/@CTR_Contributor/documents/Contributor_Web_Content/LACITYP_009064.pdf




What is any easy mark? ANSWER: Someone who does not look or know what reality is due to the orchestrations of others... and with these types of numbers people better start looking rather fast.

It is one thing as to what is there and it is totally another of how fast it can disappear if no one is looking!


School Districts in LA?

Another good place to look would be in an area you have had first hand experience with if you have children.

Here you can see that what you thought you knew was not a clear or complete picture of what was:

Los Angeles School District 2008 CAFR -http://notebook.lausd.net/pls/ptl/docs/PAGE/CA_LAUSD/LAUSDNET/OFFICES/CFO_HOME/2008-09%2520CAFR_FINAL%25202-25-10.PDF

Los Angeles School District 2006 CAFR -http://notebook.lausd.net/pls/ptl/url/ITEM/5B0A360C41211054E0430A0002101054

And then an eye opener along the lines of lack of transparency of funds over 100 billion dollars, CALSTERS -the Teachers Retirement Fund 2002 CAFR gives a detailed listing of specific investments where 2009 there is no clear showing outside of general percentages shown. I also note that the word "unaudited" crops up to many times in the 2009 report:

2002 - http://www.calstrs.com/HELP/forms_publications/printed/02cafr/CAFR03all.pdf

2009 - http://www.calstrs.com/help/forms_publications/printed/CurrentCAFR/cafr_2009.pdf

CAFR1located the "listing of investments held by CALSTERS and they can be viewed here - http://CAFR1.com/CALSTRS.html

Walter Burien - CAFR1
P. O. Box 2112
Saint Johns, AZ 85936

Tel. (928) 445-3532

[lapis]

QUOTE OF THE DAY: "Rise and Rise again until Lambs become Lions"

It's from the Robin Hood movie starring Russel Crowe.

[mightymanx]

Israel is funded by these slush funds.

[Santa]

This is terrific, Lapis... Thanks so much.
Here's a quote from one of your links.

Oregon’s Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR) released by the Secretary of State’s office last week states that more than $3.3 billion in “unreserved, undesignated fund balance… was available for spending[1].”

See, the problem is, if Oregon uses those available funds to pay for government services as it should since that's what government is supposed to be doing, it'll surely cut into the funds to pay for that new fleet of private jets for the Directors and Managers of FUCU Corporation.

Can't have that, Dammit! ::)

[dys]

As far as I'm concerned the ledger aspect of this conspiracy is not the most important factor to consider, it's the conflict of interest proxy voting. Some of us were well aware of the accounting chicanery but weren't so well informed as to the genesis of all the negative aspects of corporatism and fascism: monopolies, payoffs and bribery, dissident silencing, market manipulation, economic terrorism, malinvestment, stifling of innovation, etc etc. Actually, the implications are astounding in there scope; there is almost no limit to the negative ripples of this type of criminality, that is the whole point.

I've been saying this for a couple of years now, we spend so much time arguing about democracy vs. republic, capitalism vs. socialism, and all of the other fake dichotomies out there. What we should be focusing on are the evils of limited liability. I don't care what system you use or what rules or government you put in place, none of them will work as long as the atrocity of limited liability remains. What do the bad guys care if we call it a republic or make laws against treason or have sound money? They will just buy the people charged with upholding these concepts, and what do you have then? Limited liability is the trick designed to circumvent things like rules, law, system, accountability, and responsibility. You can't fix things without dumping the abomination of limited liability.

dys

[lapis]

I think this CAFR information, coupled with Catherine Austin Fitts' revelations about government black budgets are the biggest stories you won't see on the MSM.

I guess I should start a CAF thread to go with this one.

[dys]

I think this CAFR information, coupled with Catherine Austin Fitts' revelations about government black budgets are the biggest stories you won't see on the MSM.

I guess I should start a CAF thread to go with this one.


If you really want to get creeped out look into Project Monarch. Fritz Springmeier is a guy to check out.

dys

[jimswift]

I wonder what Wisconsin's CAFR looks like?

[lapis]

Probably the usual gravy and signs of graft. Catherine Austin Fitts found that a city in New York that was on a hill had unnecessary expensive flood insurance, for example (one tiny one).

[Twisted Titan]

The only the way to fight this is by holding Physical Gold and silver in our pockets and using the instruments of repudiation and strategic default can bring them to their knees.

T

[lapis]

Wisconsin’s Real Financial Situation Explained
http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/wisconsins-real-financial-situation-explained/

Clint Richardson (the creator of The Corporation Nation (http://thecorporationnation.com/) film) did a simple breakdown of Wisconsin state's CAFR on his blog.

[dys]

Wisconsin’s Real Financial Situation Explained
http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/wisconsins-real-financial-situation-explained/

Clint Richardson (the creator of The Corporation Nation (http://thecorporationnation.com/) film) did a simple breakdown of Wisconsin state's CAFR on his blog.


FYI- For anyone that hasn't clicked on the link, according to the State of Wisconsin's CAFR there is enough wealth to give every man, woman, and child 22k and this is an EXTREMELY conservative estimate (it's likely double that). Keep in mind this does not include the wealth of towns, municipalities, pension funds, etc. These criminals are sitting on top of trillions of dollars.

dys

[Santa]

TOTAL ASSETS (CAPITAL AND INVESTMENTS) FOUND IN 2010 STATE CAFR

-> $123,481,258,000 in the black, after having paid all the bills for the year 2010.

[Glass]

This is a great thread lapis. I did the CAFR thing back a few years ago and it really crystalised for me how corrupt things were. Two sets of books can only mean criminal enterprise. I was able to confirm the same practices in my home state here in Oz and that disappointed but it did not surprise me. Our numbers aren't so big but I only looked at a state level and not at municipal level. Still it was clear that taxes on people should be nil and even a dividend was possible most years. There have been changes and now full financials are not released. This seems to be a global trend making it harder to demonstrate to people what is going on.

[dys]

This is a great thread lapis. I did the CAFR thing back a few years ago and it really crystalised for me how corrupt things were. Two sets of books can only mean criminal enterprise. I was able to confirm the same practices in my home state here in Oz and that disappointed but it did not surprise me. Our numbers aren't so big but I only looked at a state level and not at municipal level. Still it was clear that taxes on people should be nil and even a dividend was possible most years. There have been changes and now full financials are not released. This seems to be a global trend making it harder to demonstrate to people what is going on.


And money is not the only concern...it's power. With the type of power that comes from this type of wealth combined with natural conflict of interest, markets can be manipulated, people can be bought and sold, politicians can be elected or discarded, monopolies can be established, business innovation can be stifled, etc... Again, there is almost no limit to what can be done. This is the smoking gun that there is no capitalism and there is no free market. What we have is more like a sophisticated form of feudalism.

dys

[mick silver]

bring it back up

[lapis]

http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/cafr-school-a-lesson-in-financial-accounting/]CAFR School – A Lesson In Financial Accounting

Welcome to CAFR school!

The object of this essay is to teach you to be an informed citizen and taxpayer. We will examine just how to go through your local city, municipal, county, school district, and state government’s Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR) and come out the other side with millions if not billions of wealth and investments hidden by your government.

I was inspired to write this due to the several requests for myself to help others research and pinpoint their own government’s corruption and hidden wealth.

So here, now, I present to you the CAFR for the city of Aurora, Colorado, a municipal corporation…

First, understand that this report is basically the standard set-up and protocol for the structure of the Annual Reporting system. Therefore, you may apply this same examination to most CAFR’s across the nation and get the same results.

Second, understand that this is just the city (municipal corporation), and does not reflect the county, state, or all of the other incorporated municipal cities and unincorporated towns. it would be necessary to add all of these up to get a total look at the wealth of any county or state.

Also, the school districts and other districts (water, sewer, etc.) will each have a seperate CAFR, as they are also not part of the city government (as listed on the CAFR).

That said, I am going to refer to pages on the CAFR report (no particular order, sorry). Remember, we are looking for wealth that could be used for more important things as well as wealth that is not being used for anything at all except capital gains.

You should follow along with me using the Aurora City Comprehensive Annual Financial Report as your reference, which can be downloaded here:

https://www.auroragov.org/AuroraGov/Departments/Finance/Annual_Financial_Report/index.htm?ssSourceNodeId=934&ssSourceSiteId=621…

And if you like, you can follow along with your local or county CAFR as well, making the adjustments for size and page numbers as you go. Your CAFR should be virtually identical in its structure to this one. If it is not, the key points we are about to cover will be in there somewhere.

(CLUE: Use the “search” function in your (.pdf) or document reader.)

To search for your own local, county, school district, or state CAFR, there are two options…

1) Type your city/county/state/district into your search engine, followed by the words “Comprehensive Annual Financial Report”, followed by the year. (Note that some governments take their sweet time getting these reports out, and so only the previous year may be available for download.) Also, be sure to spell the CAFR phrase out in full.

EXAMPLE: (Aurora City Comprehensive Annual Financial Report 2009)

2) Go to your city/county/state/district (.gov) website and look for the word “Publications” or the phrase “Financial Statements” or “Annual Reports“. If these aren’t easily found (which not surprisingly they aren’t), most .gov sights have a search option. Be sure and get the CAFR if possible, as the “citizens guide” and the other budget reports are not the full report. Sometimes they are called “Annual Reports” or “Financial Statements” as well, but the majority are called the “CAFR”.

Ok, on to the Aurora City CAFR…

[snip]

[lapis]

Ellen Brown, the author of the Web of Debt book (you can read excerpts of it at http://www.webofdebt.com/) claims that there's good reasons why the CAFR monies can't be spent. I don't know if they're strictly true in all cases; I wonder what Clint Richardson would make of this?


Taking Back the Money Power: How Hidden Pools of Government Money Could Help Save the Economy (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19279)

For over a decade, accountant Walter Burien has been trying to rouse the public over what he contends is a massive conspiracy and cover-up, involving trillions of dollars squirreled away in funds maintained at every level of government. His numbers may be disputed, but these funds definitely exist, as evidenced by the Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports (CAFRs) required of every government agency. If they don’t represent a concerted government conspiracy, what are they for? And how can they be harnessed more efficiently to help allay the financial crises of state and local governments?

The Elusive CAFR Money

Burien is a former commodity trading adviser who has spent many years peering into government books. He notes that the government is composed of 54,000 different state, county, and local government entities, including school districts, public authorities, and the like; and that these entities all keep their financial assets in liquid investment funds, bond financing accounts and corporate stock portfolios. The only income that must be reported in government budgets is that from taxes, fines and fees; but the investments of government entities can be found in official annual reports (CAFRs), which must be filed with the federal government by local, county and state governments. These annual reports show that virtually every U.S. city, county, and state has vast amounts of money stashed away in surplus funds. Burien maintains that these slush funds have been kept concealed from taxpayers, even as taxes are being raised and citizens are being told to expect fewer government services.

Burien was originally alerted to this information by Lt. Col. Gerald Klatt, who evidently died in 2004 under mysterious circumstances, adding fuel to claims of conspiracy and cover-up. Klatt was a an Air Force auditor and federal accountant, and it’s not impossible that he may have gotten too close to some military stash being used for nefarious ends. But it is hard to envision how all the municipal governments hording their excess money in separate funds could be complicit in a massive government conspiracy. Still, if that is not what is going on, why such an inefficient use of public monies?

A Simpler Explanation

I got a chance to ask that question in April, when I was invited to speak at a conference of Government Finance Officers in Missouri. The friendly public servants at the conference explained that maintaining large “rainy day” funds is simply how local governments must operate. Unlike private businesses, which have bank credit lines they can draw on if they miscalculate their expenses, local governments are required by law to balance their budgets; and if they come up short, public services and government payrolls may be frozen until the voters get around to approving a new bond issue. This has actually happened, bringing local government to a standstill. In emergencies, government officials can try to borrow short-term through “certificates of participation” or tax participation loans, but the interest rates are prohibitively high; and in today’s tight credit market, finding willing lenders is difficult.

To avoid those unpredictable contingencies, municipal governments will keep a cushion of from 20% to 75% more than their budgets actually require. This money is invested, but not necessarily lucratively. One finance officer, for example, said that her city had just bid out $2 million as a 30-day certificate of deposit (CD) to two large banks at a meager annual interest of 0.11%. It was a nice spread for the banks, which could leverage the money into loans at 6% or so; but it was a pretty sparse deal for the city.

Meanwhile, Back in California

That was in Missouri, but the figures I was particularly interested were for my own state of California, which was struggling with a budget deficit of $26.3 billion as of April 2010. Yet the State Treasurer’s website says that he manages a Pooled Money Investment Account (PMIA) tallying in at nearly $71 billion as of the same date, including a Local Agency Investment Fund (LAIF) of $24 billion. Why isn’t this money being used toward the state’s deficit? The Treasurer’s answer to this question, which he evidently gets frequently, is that legislation forbids it. His website states:

“Can the State borrow LAIF dollars to resolve the budget deficit?

“No. California Government Code 16429.3 states that monies placed with the Treasurer for deposit in the LAIF by cities, counties, special districts, nonprofit corporations, or qualified quasi-governmental agencies shall not be subject to either of the following:

“(a) Transfer or loan pursuant to Sections 16310, 16312, or 16313.
“(b) Impoundment or seizure by any state official or state agency.”
The non-LAIF money in the pool can’t be spent either. It can be borrowed, but it has to be paid back. When Governor Schwarzenegger tried to raid the Public Transportation Account for the state budget, the California Transit Association took him to court and won. The Third District Court of Appeals ruled in June 2009 that diversions from the Public Transportation Account to fill non-transit holes in the General Fund violated a series of statutory and constitutional amendments enacted by voters via four statewide initiatives dating back to 1990.

In short, the use of these funds for the state budget has been blocked by the voters themselves. Bond issues are approved for particular purposes. When excess funds are collected, they are not handed over to the State toward next year’s budget. They just sit idly in an earmarked fund, drawing a modest interest.

What’s Wrong with This Picture?

California’s budget problems have caused its credit rating to be downgraded to just above that of Greece, driving the state’s interest tab skyward. In November 2009, the state sold 30-year taxable securities carrying an interest rate of 7.26%. Yet California has never defaulted on its bonds. Meanwhile, the too-big-to-fail banks, which would have defaulted on hundreds of billions of dollars of debt if they had not been bailed out by the states and their citizens, are able to borrow from each other at the extremely low federal funds rate, currently set at 0 to .25% (one quarter of one percent). The banks are also paying the states quite minimal rates for the use of their public monies, and turning around and relending this money, leveraged many times over, to the states and their citizens at much higher rates. That is assuming they lend at all, something they are increasingly reluctant to do, since speculating with the money is more lucrative, and investing it in federal securities is more secure.

Private banks clearly have the upper hand in this game. Local governments have been forced to horde funds in very inefficient ways, building excessive reserves while slashing services, because they do not have the extensive credit lines available to the private banking system. States cannot easily incur new debt without voter approval, a process that is cumbersome, time-consuming and uncertain. Banks, on the other hand, need to keep only the slimmest of reserves, because they are backstopped by a central bank with the power to create all the reserves necessary for its member banks, as well as by Congress and the taxpayers themselves, who have been arm-twisted into repeated bailouts of the Wall Street behemoths.

How the CAFR Money Could Be Used Without Spending It

California, then, is in the anomalous position of being $26 billion in the red and plunging toward bankruptcy, while it has over $70 billion stashed away in an investment pool that it cannot touch. Those are just the funds managed by the Treasurer. According to California’s latest CAFR, the California Public Employees’ Retirement Fund (CalPERS) has total investments of $360 billion, including nearly $144 billion in “equity securities” and $37 billion in “private equity.” See the State of California Comprehensive Annual Financial Report for the Fiscal Year Ended June 30, 2009, pages 83-84.

This money cannot be spent, but it can be invested -- and it can be invested not just in conservative federal securities but in equity, or stocks. Rather than turning this hidden gold mine over to Wall Street banks to earn a very meager interest, California could leverage its excess funds itself, turning the money into much-needed low-interest credit for its own use. How? It could do this by owning its own bank.

Only one state currently does this -- North Dakota. North Dakota is also the only state projected to have a budget surplus by 2011. It has not fallen into the Wall Street debt trap afflicting other states, because it has been able to generate its own credit through its own state-owned Bank of North Dakota (BND).

An investment in the State Bank of California would not be at risk unless the bank became insolvent, a highly unlikely result since the state has the power to tax. In North Dakota, the BND is a dba of the state itself: it is set up as “the State of North Dakota doing business as the Bank of North Dakota.” That means the bank cannot go bankrupt unless the state goes bankrupt.

The capital requirement for bank loans is a complicated matter, but it generally works out to be about 7%. (According to Standard & Poor’s, the worldwide average risk-adjusted capital ratio stood at 6.7 per cent as of June 30, 2009; but for some major U.S. banks it was much lower: Citigroup's was 2.1 per cent; Bank of America’s was 5.8 per cent.) At 7%, $7 of capital can back $100 in loans. Thus if $7 billion in CAFR funds were invested as capital in a California state development bank, the bank could generate $100 billion in loans.

This $100 billion credit line would allow California to finance its $26 billion deficit at very minimal interest rates, with $74 billion left over for infrastructure and other sorely needed projects. Studies have shown that eliminating the interest burden can cut the cost of public projects in half. The loans could be repaid from the profits generated by the projects themselves. Public transportation, low-cost housing, alternative energy sources and the like all generate fees. Meanwhile, the jobs created by these projects would produce additional taxes and stimulate the economy. Commercial loans could also be made, generating interest income that would return to state coffers.

Building a Deposit Base

To start a bank requires not just capital but deposits. Banks can create all the loans they can find creditworthy borrowers for, up to the limit of their capital base; but when the loans leave the bank as checks, the bank needs to replace the deposits taken from its reserve pool in order for the checks to clear. Where would a state-owned bank get the deposits necessary for this purpose?

In North Dakota, all the state’s revenues are deposited in the BND by law. Compare California, which has expected revenues for 2010-11 of $89 billion. The Treasurer’s website reports that as of June 30, 2009, the state held over $18 billion on deposit as demand accounts and demand NOW accounts (basically demand accounts carrying a very small interest). These deposits were held in seven commercial banks, most of them Wall Street banks: Bank of America, Union Bank, Bank of the West, U.S. Bank, Wells Fargo Bank, Westamerica Bank, and Citibank. Besides these deposits, the $64 billion or so left in the Treasurer’s investment pool could be invested in State Bank of California CDs. Again, most of the bank CDs in which these funds are now invested are Wall Street or foreign banks. Many private depositors would no doubt choose to bank at the State Bank of California as well, keeping California’s money in California. There is already a movement afoot to transfer funds out of Wall Street banks into local banks.

While the new state-owned bank is waiting to accumulate sufficient deposits to clear its outgoing checks, it can do what other startup banks do – borrow deposits from the interbank lending market at the very modest federal funds rate (0 to .25%).

To avoid hurting California’s local banks, any state monies held on deposit with local banks could remain there, since the State Bank of California should have plenty of potential deposits without these funds. In North Dakota, local banks are not only not threatened by the BND but are actually served by it, since the BND partners with them, engaging in “participation loans” that help local banks with their capital requirements.

Taking Back the Money Power

We have too long delegated the power to create our money and our credit to private profiteers, who have plundered and exploited the privilege in ways that are increasingly being exposed in the media. Wall Street may own Congress, but it does not yet own the states. We can take the money power back at the state level, by setting up our own publicly-owned banks. We can “spend” our money while conserving it, by leveraging it into the credit urgently needed to get the wheels of local production turning once again.

[dys]

This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever heard in my life. So because they don't want to risk going broke, they need to invest money in stocks, bonds, real estate, PMs, foreign currencies, commodities, futures, hedge funds etc, all for the purposes of establishing a cushion/rainy day fund, BUT this money can NEVER be accessed, even if the State went broke? LMAO! HAHAHAHAHAHAH! How do you even have the balls to say something so absurd?

Besides, that insane explanation does not even address the following questions (among others):

1. Why hasn't this been publicly disclosed and debated in the past?
2. What happens when and if the assets appreciate beyond the rainy day threshhold?
3. Why aren't the taxpayers paid dividends on the investments?
4. Why has there been no public disclosure/debate concerning the proxy voting associated with some of these investments?
5. What about the government corporations that balanced budget laws do not apply to?
6. How does this explain all of the taxpayer money wasted on lobbying?
7. Why isn't there a public disclosure and debate concerning the risks associated with some of these investments?
8. What about conflict of interest and market manipulation?
9. Why aren't the people that manage these investments and/or benefit from them disclosed publicly as well as their compensation?

dys



Ellen Brown, the author of the Web of Debt book (you can read excerpts of it at http://www.webofdebt.com/) claims that there's good reasons why the CAFR monies can't be spent. I don't know if they're strictly true in all cases; I wonder what Clint Richardson would make of this?


Taking Back the Money Power: How Hidden Pools of Government Money Could Help Save the Economy (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19279)

For over a decade, accountant Walter Burien has been trying to rouse the public over what he contends is a massive conspiracy and cover-up, involving trillions of dollars squirreled away in funds maintained at every level of government. His numbers may be disputed, but these funds definitely exist, as evidenced by the Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports (CAFRs) required of every government agency. If they don’t represent a concerted government conspiracy, what are they for? And how can they be harnessed more efficiently to help allay the financial crises of state and local governments?

The Elusive CAFR Money

Burien is a former commodity trading adviser who has spent many years peering into government books. He notes that the government is composed of 54,000 different state, county, and local government entities, including school districts, public authorities, and the like; and that these entities all keep their financial assets in liquid investment funds, bond financing accounts and corporate stock portfolios. The only income that must be reported in government budgets is that from taxes, fines and fees; but the investments of government entities can be found in official annual reports (CAFRs), which must be filed with the federal government by local, county and state governments. These annual reports show that virtually every U.S. city, county, and state has vast amounts of money stashed away in surplus funds. Burien maintains that these slush funds have been kept concealed from taxpayers, even as taxes are being raised and citizens are being told to expect fewer government services.

Burien was originally alerted to this information by Lt. Col. Gerald Klatt, who evidently died in 2004 under mysterious circumstances, adding fuel to claims of conspiracy and cover-up. Klatt was a an Air Force auditor and federal accountant, and it’s not impossible that he may have gotten too close to some military stash being used for nefarious ends. But it is hard to envision how all the municipal governments hording their excess money in separate funds could be complicit in a massive government conspiracy. Still, if that is not what is going on, why such an inefficient use of public monies?

A Simpler Explanation

I got a chance to ask that question in April, when I was invited to speak at a conference of Government Finance Officers in Missouri. The friendly public servants at the conference explained that maintaining large “rainy day” funds is simply how local governments must operate. Unlike private businesses, which have bank credit lines they can draw on if they miscalculate their expenses, local governments are required by law to balance their budgets; and if they come up short, public services and government payrolls may be frozen until the voters get around to approving a new bond issue. This has actually happened, bringing local government to a standstill. In emergencies, government officials can try to borrow short-term through “certificates of participation” or tax participation loans, but the interest rates are prohibitively high; and in today’s tight credit market, finding willing lenders is difficult.

To avoid those unpredictable contingencies, municipal governments will keep a cushion of from 20% to 75% more than their budgets actually require. This money is invested, but not necessarily lucratively. One finance officer, for example, said that her city had just bid out $2 million as a 30-day certificate of deposit (CD) to two large banks at a meager annual interest of 0.11%. It was a nice spread for the banks, which could leverage the money into loans at 6% or so; but it was a pretty sparse deal for the city.

Meanwhile, Back in California

That was in Missouri, but the figures I was particularly interested were for my own state of California, which was struggling with a budget deficit of $26.3 billion as of April 2010. Yet the State Treasurer’s website says that he manages a Pooled Money Investment Account (PMIA) tallying in at nearly $71 billion as of the same date, including a Local Agency Investment Fund (LAIF) of $24 billion. Why isn’t this money being used toward the state’s deficit? The Treasurer’s answer to this question, which he evidently gets frequently, is that legislation forbids it. His website states:

“Can the State borrow LAIF dollars to resolve the budget deficit?

“No. California Government Code 16429.3 states that monies placed with the Treasurer for deposit in the LAIF by cities, counties, special districts, nonprofit corporations, or qualified quasi-governmental agencies shall not be subject to either of the following:

“(a) Transfer or loan pursuant to Sections 16310, 16312, or 16313.
“(b) Impoundment or seizure by any state official or state agency.”
The non-LAIF money in the pool can’t be spent either. It can be borrowed, but it has to be paid back. When Governor Schwarzenegger tried to raid the Public Transportation Account for the state budget, the California Transit Association took him to court and won. The Third District Court of Appeals ruled in June 2009 that diversions from the Public Transportation Account to fill non-transit holes in the General Fund violated a series of statutory and constitutional amendments enacted by voters via four statewide initiatives dating back to 1990.

In short, the use of these funds for the state budget has been blocked by the voters themselves. Bond issues are approved for particular purposes. When excess funds are collected, they are not handed over to the State toward next year’s budget. They just sit idly in an earmarked fund, drawing a modest interest.

What’s Wrong with This Picture?

California’s budget problems have caused its credit rating to be downgraded to just above that of Greece, driving the state’s interest tab skyward. In November 2009, the state sold 30-year taxable securities carrying an interest rate of 7.26%. Yet California has never defaulted on its bonds. Meanwhile, the too-big-to-fail banks, which would have defaulted on hundreds of billions of dollars of debt if they had not been bailed out by the states and their citizens, are able to borrow from each other at the extremely low federal funds rate, currently set at 0 to .25% (one quarter of one percent). The banks are also paying the states quite minimal rates for the use of their public monies, and turning around and relending this money, leveraged many times over, to the states and their citizens at much higher rates. That is assuming they lend at all, something they are increasingly reluctant to do, since speculating with the money is more lucrative, and investing it in federal securities is more secure.

Private banks clearly have the upper hand in this game. Local governments have been forced to horde funds in very inefficient ways, building excessive reserves while slashing services, because they do not have the extensive credit lines available to the private banking system. States cannot easily incur new debt without voter approval, a process that is cumbersome, time-consuming and uncertain. Banks, on the other hand, need to keep only the slimmest of reserves, because they are backstopped by a central bank with the power to create all the reserves necessary for its member banks, as well as by Congress and the taxpayers themselves, who have been arm-twisted into repeated bailouts of the Wall Street behemoths.

How the CAFR Money Could Be Used Without Spending It

California, then, is in the anomalous position of being $26 billion in the red and plunging toward bankruptcy, while it has over $70 billion stashed away in an investment pool that it cannot touch. Those are just the funds managed by the Treasurer. According to California’s latest CAFR, the California Public Employees’ Retirement Fund (CalPERS) has total investments of $360 billion, including nearly $144 billion in “equity securities” and $37 billion in “private equity.” See the State of California Comprehensive Annual Financial Report for the Fiscal Year Ended June 30, 2009, pages 83-84.

This money cannot be spent, but it can be invested -- and it can be invested not just in conservative federal securities but in equity, or stocks. Rather than turning this hidden gold mine over to Wall Street banks to earn a very meager interest, California could leverage its excess funds itself, turning the money into much-needed low-interest credit for its own use. How? It could do this by owning its own bank.

Only one state currently does this -- North Dakota. North Dakota is also the only state projected to have a budget surplus by 2011. It has not fallen into the Wall Street debt trap afflicting other states, because it has been able to generate its own credit through its own state-owned Bank of North Dakota (BND).

An investment in the State Bank of California would not be at risk unless the bank became insolvent, a highly unlikely result since the state has the power to tax. In North Dakota, the BND is a dba of the state itself: it is set up as “the State of North Dakota doing business as the Bank of North Dakota.” That means the bank cannot go bankrupt unless the state goes bankrupt.

The capital requirement for bank loans is a complicated matter, but it generally works out to be about 7%. (According to Standard & Poor’s, the worldwide average risk-adjusted capital ratio stood at 6.7 per cent as of June 30, 2009; but for some major U.S. banks it was much lower: Citigroup's was 2.1 per cent; Bank of America’s was 5.8 per cent.) At 7%, $7 of capital can back $100 in loans. Thus if $7 billion in CAFR funds were invested as capital in a California state development bank, the bank could generate $100 billion in loans.

This $100 billion credit line would allow California to finance its $26 billion deficit at very minimal interest rates, with $74 billion left over for infrastructure and other sorely needed projects. Studies have shown that eliminating the interest burden can cut the cost of public projects in half. The loans could be repaid from the profits generated by the projects themselves. Public transportation, low-cost housing, alternative energy sources and the like all generate fees. Meanwhile, the jobs created by these projects would produce additional taxes and stimulate the economy. Commercial loans could also be made, generating interest income that would return to state coffers.

Building a Deposit Base

To start a bank requires not just capital but deposits. Banks can create all the loans they can find creditworthy borrowers for, up to the limit of their capital base; but when the loans leave the bank as checks, the bank needs to replace the deposits taken from its reserve pool in order for the checks to clear. Where would a state-owned bank get the deposits necessary for this purpose?

In North Dakota, all the state’s revenues are deposited in the BND by law. Compare California, which has expected revenues for 2010-11 of $89 billion. The Treasurer’s website reports that as of June 30, 2009, the state held over $18 billion on deposit as demand accounts and demand NOW accounts (basically demand accounts carrying a very small interest). These deposits were held in seven commercial banks, most of them Wall Street banks: Bank of America, Union Bank, Bank of the West, U.S. Bank, Wells Fargo Bank, Westamerica Bank, and Citibank. Besides these deposits, the $64 billion or so left in the Treasurer’s investment pool could be invested in State Bank of California CDs. Again, most of the bank CDs in which these funds are now invested are Wall Street or foreign banks. Many private depositors would no doubt choose to bank at the State Bank of California as well, keeping California’s money in California. There is already a movement afoot to transfer funds out of Wall Street banks into local banks.

While the new state-owned bank is waiting to accumulate sufficient deposits to clear its outgoing checks, it can do what other startup banks do – borrow deposits from the interbank lending market at the very modest federal funds rate (0 to .25%).

To avoid hurting California’s local banks, any state monies held on deposit with local banks could remain there, since the State Bank of California should have plenty of potential deposits without these funds. In North Dakota, local banks are not only not threatened by the BND but are actually served by it, since the BND partners with them, engaging in “participation loans” that help local banks with their capital requirements.

Taking Back the Money Power

We have too long delegated the power to create our money and our credit to private profiteers, who have plundered and exploited the privilege in ways that are increasingly being exposed in the media. Wall Street may own Congress, but it does not yet own the states. We can take the money power back at the state level, by setting up our own publicly-owned banks. We can “spend” our money while conserving it, by leveraging it into the credit urgently needed to get the wheels of local production turning once again.

[Libertytree]

Great points Dys,

I, like you, think this is one of the mothers of US conspiracies and if even a small % of the people could understand the gravity of it all there might very well be revolution overnight.(a fella can be hopeful,no?) If RP would make this a significant part of his platform he would be the next POTUS by a landslide, IMO. In the process the majority of the scum leaching from it would be exposed too and we could rid ourselves of them.

But my faith in any of the above actually happening is probably just another patriot pipe dream and while I will always hold a modicum of hope, it's damn sure not prudent to deviate from our current course....but I'd love to see it happen.

[MNeagle]

This thread need a sticky too.

[dys]

Think about this: if you are a ratings agency, why would you downgrade the rating of a company that is well capitalized, perfectly diversified, has very low overhead, has a perpetual and nearly guaranteed revenue stream that comes from collateralized receivables with punitive remedies (the power to tax, in other words), and a gigantic competitive advantage over normal businesses (they don't have to pay ANY tax). It is obvious why, the whole thing is a charade designed to legitimize the fake books and ignore the real ones! Not to mention that whoever is in charge of this racket doesn't EVER plan on letting these assets get into the hands of those that supposedly 'own' them, the taxpayers.

This conspiracy makes me very angry. It should make everyone very angry.

dys

[dys]

As an addendum to my last post, has it occured to people that ratings agencies are publicly traded companies? http://seekingalpha.com/symbol/mco http://www.hoovers.com/company/The_Dun__Bradstreet_Corporation/rfcxyi-1-1njg4g.html
You don't think these government corporations would buy preferred stock in these companies and then use their proxy voting power for impropriety, do you? Because we know that government has such a sterling track record in matters of propriety....and it's a good thing, too. Because if they weren't so noble, they could use their voting power for all kinds of shady corruption, back room deals, graft, et al.

dys

[mick silver]

just one more worm hole ... have you guys look to see if your city does have a fund like this ?

[dys]

The only the way to fight this is by holding Physical Gold and silver in our pockets and using the instruments of repudiation and strategic default can bring them to their knees.

T


I honestly don't believe this is true. These entities are all highly vested in PMs...most of them have far more PMs than any one person can ever hope to attain in a lifetime, even a prosperous lifetime. How can a personal PM hedging strategy possibly work under these circumstances?

dys

[lapis]

I asked Clint Richardson (who made the "Corporation Nation" documentary (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/documentary-the-corporation-nation/) about CAFRs) what he though about Ellen Brown's article, and this is his response (http://thecorporationnation.com/?page_id=8#comment-348) (red highlights mine for emphasis):

There are several answers here, but lets focus on the most important (in my opinion).

Who’s money is it? Is it the taxpaying public’s money, or is it the government’s money? Is there a difference between the two?

This is a private corporation acting as a government, that is not representing the will or need of the people.

Transfers out of these funds happen all of the time. And a CODE is not statutory law, but presumed law. This means that it requires the consent of the governed.

Therefore, as long as we the governed stay silent and don’t demand that the state release our money, we are consenting to this hoarding of our money by what we laughably call our representative government!

More on consent here: http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2010/12/08/consent-why-the-irs-domestic-and-homeland-security-have-no-lawful-power/

And here is Walter Burien’s response to Ellen Brown and her love of the idea of state banks…

http://cafr1.com/StateBanksAndTheft.html

Fact: if the people want the law on their side, they must create new laws that will be on their side. This is done by people creating initiatives and propositions and then having the whole state vote on it, not by calling, emailing, and facebooking your so-called representative congressmen, who are EMPLOYEES OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

People are the power, if they’d just get off of their collective arses!

To add my two cents to what Walter is so astutely stating in his response, let me just say this:

If, as the money power government, if I wanted to end the Federal Reserve in order to take my financial rape and takeover of America and the World to the next level… I would get the people to rally behind my controlled opposition (Ron Paul, Alex Jones, End The Fed, etc…) and do the work for me. I would put all of the blame on the Fed and slip out the back door with all of my wealth while the people celebrate their false victory over the evil Federal Reserve Banking system, the central bank. But in reality, the people have just been looted and robbed in a way that they can’t even come close to comprehending, and the money changers change in name only. Now I, as the international money changer government, I can bring in the the new world banking system established through the U.N. and the IMF, using a congruent collaboration of all international currencies (special drawing rights) as the new “dollar”. The “New World Order” that Walter refers to would now be in place more so than ever before.

Understanding that the dollar is backed by the people, not an intrinsic object or metal, means that the dollar is nothing but DEBT. It is evidence of debt. And we trade it amongst ourselves as if it is gold. It is not. It is a paper weapon so powerful that it has purchased the whole corporate structure of the world. And if the dollar becomes (purposefully) worthless and the economy (purposefully) collapses, the government and the money-changer’s that control it will still own everything you see, all corporations, all land, and you the people. The government hedges is[its?] dollars like you wouldn’t believe! The CAFR’s show trillions of dollars invested in foreign currency hedge funds controlled by government. If the dollar goes bye-bye, the government is holding mass amounts of wealth in every international currency. It cannot help but to get ahead!!! You and your production value are “chattel”, and are the collateral for the good faith and credit of the United States Government. The dollar even has our Social Security numbers on them! You can find all of this listed in U.S.CODE.

Government is the banks. Whether it be state banks or a central bank, they are still government run.

Not understanding government ownership of these banks is like not understanding addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division before trying to master calculus.

So there it is…

Thanks for your question. And peace to you.

-Clint-

[mick silver]

No. California Government Code 16429.3 states that monies placed with the Treasurer for deposit in the LAIF by cities, counties, special districts, nonprofit corporations, or qualified quasi-governmental agencies shall not be subject to either of the following:
“(a) Transfer or loan pursuant to Sections 16310, 16312, or 16313.
“(b) Impoundment or seizure by any state official or state agency.”
The non-LAIF money in the pool can’t be spent either. It can be borrowed, but it has to be paid back. When Governor Schwarzenegger tried to raid the Public Transportation Account for the state budget, the California Transit Association took him to court and won. The Third District Court of Appeals ruled in June 2009 that diversions from the Public Transportation Account to fill non-transit holes in the General Fund violated a series of statutory and constitutional amendments enacted by voters via four statewide initiatives dating back to 1990.

In short, the use of these funds for the state budget has been blocked by the voters themselves. Bond issues are approved for particular purposes. When excess funds are collected, they are not handed over to the State toward next year’s budget. They just sit idly in an earmarked fund, drawing a modest interest.

What’s Wrong with This Picture?


then whats this money for if not to help the states ... it our money right

[Mouse]

Just did a couple hour review of the 2009 CAFR for the City Of Springfield, MO, which is 150,000 and about an hour from me. The local towns and counties here don't have available financials unless you go to them.

I must admit, that although the City has a lot of money, the Net Assets are around 750,000,000, most of which, say 460,000,000 is in capital assets (buildings, roads, trucks, equipment, computers, office furniture, etc.) there is about 160,000,000 of "slush" fund sitting there and the city in 2009 turned a 22,000,000 profit.

The pension funds for fire and cops were 55% funded and appeared to be within reasonable actuarial limits.

The most blatant piece of doo-doo I could find was the City Cemetary, which is a permanently restricted fund holding 1.2MM for care and maintenance, of which, zero dollars were spent and 7k was increase in the fund. This money is clearly not invested very well, and should not be permanently restricted to grow forever.

Aside from that, there was a lot of fascinating information on the public sewer system and more importantly the municipal power utility company. This was all pretty much as expected and I didn't see anything in the financials to set off any booga-booga in my mind. You can be assured that any city or gov. running anything will do it less efficiently than a private enterprise could do it, the results of the components (the utility and the sewerage) were pretty much to be expected.

There is a LOT of investing going on, as I suppose there should be when you are sitting on 160,000,000 to invest. The investments had clear boundaries and limits in credit exposure, sector exposure, equities v. bonds and gov's and etc.

So - if the city were to go polling for a new tax hike or cry about pensions, I would certainly be able to wave their paper at them and say "what for" (I don't live there, but the info is there to lodge an argument).

Thinking of it, there is about maybe 1,250 of every city resident's dollars sitting in the kitty at the City gov. for future use.

Perhaps when a resident leaves, they should inquire about getting their fair share to take when they leave.

I believe there are huge conflicts of interest and other issues regarding the corporatization of our S&L gov's, but the CAFR I reviewed indicated a relatively healthy gov (financially) with capital assets (streets, roads, lights, bridges, parks, trucks, etc) and income coming in and going out, with funds set aside to pay bonds and pensions, and funds for rainy day. I didn't see particularly evil blood sucking leaches - perhaps they hide them off balance sheet.

disclosure - I am a CPA.

[lapis]

I believe there are huge conflicts of interest and other issues regarding the corporatization of our S&L gov's, but the CAFR I reviewed indicated a relatively healthy gov (financially) with capital assets (streets, roads, lights, bridges, parks, trucks, etc) and income coming in and going out, with funds set aside to pay bonds and pensions, and funds for rainy day. I didn't see particularly evil blood sucking leaches - perhaps they hide them off balance sheet.

disclosure - I am a CPA.

It's so great that a CPA reviewed this information. I hate accounting of any kind, even doing my own so a lot of this stuff is so overwhelming to me.


There is a LOT of investing going on, as I suppose there should be when you are sitting on 160,000,000 to invest. The investments had clear boundaries and limits in credit exposure, sector exposure, equities v. bonds and gov's and etc.

Did it show the profits of investments in Fortune 500 corporations? That seems to be the biggest source of wealth in these reports.

[mick silver]

if you find some of the CAFR of city or states would you post them . i would like to see what they are hiding

[Mouse]

I believe there are huge conflicts of interest and other issues regarding the corporatization of our S&L gov's, but the CAFR I reviewed indicated a relatively healthy gov (financially) with capital assets (streets, roads, lights, bridges, parks, trucks, etc) and income coming in and going out, with funds set aside to pay bonds and pensions, and funds for rainy day. I didn't see particularly evil blood sucking leaches - perhaps they hide them off balance sheet.

disclosure - I am a CPA.

It's so great that a CPA reviewed this information. I hate accounting of any kind, even doing my own so a lot of this stuff is so overwhelming to me.


There is a LOT of investing going on, as I suppose there should be when you are sitting on 160,000,000 to invest. The investments had clear boundaries and limits in credit exposure, sector exposure, equities v. bonds and gov's and etc.

Did it show the profits of investments in Fortune 500 corporations? That seems to be the biggest source of wealth in these reports.

Only showed bonds by type (e.g. fed, corp) and equities. It was interesting to note that they had currency hedges in place with a ton of different fiats. I am not saying AT ALL that the CAFR thing is Bullshit, just saying that with the data in front of you the stuff they know they have to pay off in the future, they put funds aside for, they invest it to meet that funding goal. I looked at CALSTERS and CALPERS and they are insane, but I used to look at that as part of their audits, so I was looking at very small pieces of the portfolio.

They are definitely hiding stuff in the CAFR and claiming budget woes in many, many places, in order to clamp down. I am still researching this and will be looking at some other cities just for kicks. The biggest assumptions (err.... management estimates) are the actuarial models used on the pensions and bene's. Obviously, this is at the heart of what they are holding the dough for in most cases. The auditors rely on the actuaries as third party experts. They take the model results at face value and move on, so even in a full document CAFR the perhaps biggest point of contention - PENSIONS and HEALTH - is determined by a geek in a cube somewhere at AIG or god knows where, and it presented as truth to the auditor, who is able to write off all responsibility for those model assumptions and take the lead sheet into the section of the fund without really thinking about it.

To finalize (IMHO) even if you had the most detailed CAFR of every agency in the country you would not be able to put the dots together well enough to unravel the conspiracy. The accounting firms, actuaries, big-banking and gov are in on it. In auditing terms - it is improbable to for an auditor to detect a fraud where management is complicit. It is far more improbable to detect a fraud where management, the government, outside experts relied upon by the auditor, and the auditor himself are complicit.

The amount of laundering, book running and off-balance sheet economy is beyond your wildest dreams. And that's where it all ends up, eventually.

Kudos on the great post and putting this work out there, it has been an additional eye-opener for me. I will post back with thoughts after I dig through some other CAFRs.

edited to fix messed up /quote

[lapis]

"A Declaration of War is given"

by Walter Burien (from his latest "National Post" email. Also can be viewed here (http://cafr1.com/WarDeclaration.html).)

I have listened to many of the different media heads and ABC, CNN, CBS, NBC, PBS programs closely for the last three weeks as the so called "budget debates" takes place. The one issue that is as basic as it gets when it comes down to any budget discussion there has not been one mention of. In the absence of not a mention in all respects of that issue it makes the "budget discussions" a 100% complete charade.

Each and every one of us whether being in poverty or a billionaire when we discus our annual or monthly budget for home or business will discuss with our significant other or business partners two basic issues:

#1. Our normal operating expenses; planed expenses for any project we are working on or intend to implement; and any standing balances we plan on keeping as time passes.

#2. What our standing investments are that we have; account balances of all liquid cash; and our income we expect to get from all sources with all sources being our investment, salary, sales, and other sources.

In the "budget debates or discussions" we have been watching the issues presented that are saturating the air waves through the talking heads; news; and media programs almost exclusively, if not without exception, have only talked about; discussed; or presented the topic of #1 above.

In the real world of our personal and business lives this type of behavior and conduct excluding mention and serious discussions of #2 would never happen under any circumstances. On a business level in discussions with partners it would be considered fraud and an actionable offense for criminal malfeasance and removal of the partners responsible for such an omission. On a personal level the same would break up a marriage or close friendship.

Here we have the intentional participation of the syndicated media and the entire political body doing exactly the same with the omission of #2 and doing so: knowingly; willingly; and intentionally whether eagerly in planned participation (the majority) or out of fear of reprisal (the minority). I will add one meritorious exception of a house speaker Bruce Hana from the State of Oregon here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ8YhJyxPQo If you have a Youtube account or other video display site you may want to copy this short video and post the same there with your comments.

Folks, the media and political charade taking place, it is all a masterful selective presentation designed to maintain the well entrenched void in public comprehension of the absolute basics of #2 and thus the obscene wealth and power derived staying intact and at the disposal of the inside players. Massive wealth that in this serious omission the public has been spoon feed all but mention of over the last six or seven decades as it grew and captured it all by investment whereby it gives the definition of actionable fraud of no equal by said intentional orchestrated omission.

If a complete accounting was presented to the public of #2 above held by both local and federal government, the world would then be established as being a much different place then we have been led to believe it is. The parallels that this revelation when and if shown and comprehended by all would equal I do not need to go into here, we all know what the true picture would present upon conclusion of disclosure being cognitively presented.

The War that is needed here with a barrage assault from all fronts on the media and political body is for immediate; clear; and in-depth; and open discussions to take place per #2 above. I emphasize that only liquid investment assets be addressed and NOT hard physical assets. All physical assets are to be held and ONLY liquid investment assets and the massive annual returns derived therefrom are to be looked at for reallocation for other use to resolve any "budget shortfall".

My conservative estimate of standing domestic and "international" liquid investment holdings held by both federal and local governments collectively at this time is between 90 to 110 trillion dollars.

The immediate war and assault by email; letter; phone call; and protest rally barrage I request against the media and political body is that the issues of #2 be equally included in all discussions and presentations. The following are specific categories that are applicable to the discussions per any political local or federal body and are general categories that may exclude other holding accounts that may be needed for inclusion in the discussions when identified.

For the public to be played as total idiots with the exclusion of the massive wealth held in the #2 arena it is unacceptable under any terms of the rules of engagement of a country supposedly ruled by We The People:

1. What are the standing collective investment asset balances held both domestically and " internationally" by general purpose government and enterprise authorities. Included should be the firms and management funds where held globally.

2. Identifying what specialty investment funds are held that are not included under the categories of general purpose government or enterprise authorities but are still held or overseen by the same.

3. Being that government keeps records of their standing investment assets and true gross income from all sources as depicted in their own Annual Financial Reports of which the names given to the same are: Comprehensive Annual Financial Report; Annual Financial Statement; or Annual Financial Report, that the clear mention of the same be made with the comment made that " All residents of that City; County; State; or School District should carefully review their local government's report of the same". For federal it is called: Consolidated Financial Statements or Financial Report of the United States Government - http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/backissues.html

For local governments a Google search using quotes around the name of the report and then the name of the local government on the search line will bring up many. I note that there was an intentional void created in your thinking not to hear about these reports being that if you looked; learned; and comprehended what is shown therein the job of treating you as a complete idiot with the spiel you are intentionally spoon fed from the media and political bodies would not be such an easy job to do. And yes it is a job on their part DUE TO THE MONEY INVOLVED and the power / control it breeds within the back halls and behind the closed doors of government AND the media.

I make no lite statement as to the importance of this request of War and assault as stated. Many may have a hard effort in comprehending what they are looking at in these reports BUT there are many that have the background in finance or business that will catch and comprehend what is shown. The ramifications of comprehending by even a small majority of We The People shall have the impact to turn the tide of events towards a direct and continued benefit for We The People and our futures.

I make special note of remedy upon the public learning and comprehending the scope of the wealth involved and held within government being my suggested application of the TRF for the inevitable elimination of all taxation - http://TaxRetirement.com A four point initiative linked on the front page shows the basics for turning that tide.

Circulate this request to all that you know and ask them to join the War. Compose your own letters and emails to the media and political players making it clear that further omission in the discussions of the basic issues of the liquid wealth as stated above you consider intentional fraud by omission in combination with their "selective presentation" crying broke and bankrupt utilizing the psychological tactic of fear mongering misdirection to extort more wealth from the people and that continuing to do so in perpetuating such fraud by omission and selective presentation may and could have severe, unexpected; and dire consequences.

Simple mention of the above starts the ball rolling. A fever pitch of mention can create a landslide of affirmative action for correction in the true behalf of We The People.

The intentionally maintained void in public comprehension must and needs to be filled at this time. There is no alternative that is acceptable. A declaration of War is given.

Sent for your information and your action, truly yours,

Walter J. Burien, Jr. - CAFR1.com
P. O. Box 2112
Saint Johns, AZ 85936

Tel. (928) 445-3532

PS: It's not nice to be #1 on with the results of #2 never being mentioned.

[dys]

This thing with the government shutdown proves to me that the percentage of people that don't buy the 'we are out of money' company line is growing. In the poker circles, we call this 'making a play'. The rule of thumb is that you only want to bet just enough to make your opponent fold, because the larger the bluff, the larger the risk. Shutting down the government is a pretty large bet, what will the bet be next time I wonder?

On another note, the republicans and their 'we need to reduce spending' palaver is now exposed by this thread as the red herring that it is.

dys

[lapis]

Latest post (http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/05/06/why/)at the Reality blog:

As I was going through my emails, I got yet another request from someone who wanted me to sign a petition to send to my political “representative” in office, asking politely to stop funding big oil companies. I sighed in disillusionment, trying to think of a way to make people understand that this form of political action is absolutely useless in a corporate government.

I am so saddened as of late that these types of “petitions” are the focus of so much wasted energy. Writing, calling, and even worse… emailing your “representative” in this kind of futile effort is the worst part of our mutually controlled opposition. The sense of satisfaction and patriotism that is felt by these actions is indeed exactly the desired effect of these actions. They accomplish nothing, and yet makes whole groups feel a sense of accomplishment. A petition has NO legal jurisdiction. A letter is scanned and then filed in the trash, while emails are dumped into a folder on a digital archive never to be seen again.

What a game we play – pawns moving around exactly as we are lead, never changing anything, begging our masters to do what’s right and to start representing us. It’s pathetic!

Don’t you understand? The government owns Exxon Mobile. It has controlling stock interest in the company. It owns British Petroleum, Chevron, and any other petroleum based companies you can think of. If it didn’t have a major or controlling financial interest in BP, that gulf oil spill would have been immediately cleaned up! It wouldn’t have cost the government anything to force this corporation to clean up its mess.

Don’t you Understand? Of course the government gives billions and billions in R&D grants to Pharmaceuticals and medical companies. Government owns those as well, both national and international. It hands these subsidies to these companies because it is profitable for government!!! It must do this to justify its tax collections.

Don’t you understand? They wont stop giving their own profitable businesses subsidies (taxpayer money) just because you say pretty please. They wont stop making a profit to save a few square miles of farmland or housing. And they certainly wont change anything just because a bunch of pussified patriots sign a piece of paper demanding it.

And so, I have compiled this list of just the New York State Retirement Fund’s holdings in Pharmaceuticals, oil companies, the media, and other industries. This is only one out of over 200,000 governments, Federal, state, and local. And if just one single government owns this much in these companies, the answers to the following questions should be as clear as day… government owns and profits from these corporations, and passes the laws which regulate them and to guarantee those profits, regardless of what the public wants. The answer to all questions is simple… it’s just business.

Why are pharmaceuticals and medical companies out of control and killing people? Why is cancer the number one most profitable business, despite proven cures? Why are vaccines soon to be mandatory without one shred of evidence as to them being medically sound? Why are banks allowed to charge practically unlimited interest despite usury laws? Why are banks allowed to foreclose on millions and millions of homes? Why are banks allowed to ignore state laws in lieu of federal laws? Why are products made in China all over the stinking place? Why are dangerous and poisonous products being imported into America? Why is the American market so saturated with foreign products? Why was Exxon and BP not required to clean up their historical oil spills? Why is oil still being used when such vast and wonderful alternatives are all around us? Why is the media lying and misinforming us at every turn, supporting government in every way?

All of these questions are answered by this simple realization…

Government owns it all!!!

Government is in a direct conflict of interest by being major majority shareholder (owner) of all significant corporations, both foreign and domestic.

The following is the New York Pension System holdings in major corporations around the world in 2009. This incomplete list and a 2010 list can be downloaded here:

http://www.osc.state.ny.us/retire/about_us/annual_report_2010/index.php

I challenge you to find a company this government doesn’t own stock in!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Company # of shares Market Value 2009

–Oil and Energy–

Exxon Mobil Corp 18,125,534 1,234,348,865
Chevron Corp 7,698,784 517,666,219
ConocoPhillips 6,003,030 235,078,655
Schlumberger Ltd 4,624,733 187,856,654
BP plc – Sponsored ADR 202,055 8,102,406
Royal Dutch Shell plc – A 1,816,523 40,904,335
Royal Dutch Shell plc – A 2,842,162 63,886,007
Royal Dutch Shell plc – A 84,900 3,761,070
Royal Dutch Shell plc – B 35,812 1,561,761
Royal Dutch Shell plc – B 1,553,412 34,088,987
American Electric Power Co Inc 1,785,207 45,094,329
PG&E Corp 1,249,975 47,774,045
Questar Corp 802,950 23,630,819

[Etc., etc.]

[Book]

Each and every one of us whether being in poverty or a billionaire when we discus our annual or monthly budget for home or business will discuss with our significant other or business partners two basic issues:

#1. Our normal operating expenses; planed expenses for any project we are working on or intend to implement; and any standing balances we plan on keeping as time passes.

#2. What our standing investments are that we have; account balances of all liquid cash; and our income we expect to get from all sources with all sources being our investment, salary, sales, and other sources.



Hey...What about #3? The TRILLIONS we allegedly owe on the National Debt?

WHO exactly do we allegedly owe it to?

:)

[lapis]

Latest post from The Reality Blog. The information about the Sheriff's department is as alarming as the CAFR stuff!

Salt Lake County Mayor Admits To CAFR Fund Wealth (http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/05/28/salt-lake-county-mayor-admits-to-cafr-fund-wealth/)

The following is an interview on Utah’s local K-Talk AM630 radio station with myself, Dale Williams of FreeWestRadio.com, and the Mayor of Salt Lake County, Peter Corroon.

Download [25-minute version] here: http://realitybloger.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/carroon-interveiw-edit.mp3

Download [full 90-minute version] here: http://realitybloger.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/carroon-interview-full.mp3

In this rare historical confession, the Salt Lake County Mayor not only reveals his complete knowledge of the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR) of his county, local, and state government, but tells us that indeed his new “Unified Police District” is a private corporation, and that the elected Sheriff was appointed as the CEO of that private corporate police force after dissolving the Sheriff’s Department, leaving no lawful protection of the people, and creating a gangland style police-state in the “unified” Utah and Salt Lake County.

This completely verifies my previous article, “The Sheriff Who Sold his County”, located here:

http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/05/22/the-sheriff-who-sold-his-county/

Please download, re-post, and forward this interview and article freely, with no copyright or other restrictions.

And be vigilant for this in your own Sheriff’s Department, before you loose yours as well.

[lapis]

The comprehension key to unlocking the big vault door (http://cafr1.com/key.html)

by Walter Burien
05/26/11

CAFR1 Reply to Dough per a post of 05/26/11 from the Ludwig von Mises Institute that is copied below my reply.

__________________________________________________ ______

Dough:

Here is the comprehension key to unlocking the big vault door on this issue:

1. Government investment outsourced internationally starting the exodus of well positioned massive government investment funds in the 80's, expanded in the 90's, and had a primary world market share come 2000. The investment returns first from Mexico in the 80's, soviet block countries in the 90's, and now China 2000 forward taking advantage of cheap labor were impressive to say the least. Mexico yielded 400% to 3400% annual returns; Soviet block countries 65% to 300%; China 500% to 7000%. Greed as always focused on accentuating those circumstances contrary to "others" interests (The work-force of people from the United States).

Open-door government trade policies were set to guarantee massive returns on those well placed international investments. At each turn of the investment cycle for those international investments as the wealth transfer from those products being sold in the USA took place guaranteed massive profits. Over the last four decades the biggest conflict of interests from Government International investments vs. the work-force of the United States was at play here.

Anyone from the syndicated media, organized education, or political party who had any though of making this circumstance public knowledge stood the same chance as a fly buzzing around in a 10,000 watt fly zapper "due to the money and profit involved" and the world economic take-over facilitated in the same. The interconnected power-base was as far reaching and big as it gets here.

2. When examining any primary government policy set since the 80's, as the public was masterfully entertained being given a song and dance on the "why" the International policy was being enacted and implemented as it was (NAFTA - GATT, world currency movements, etc.) the underlying core motive was guaranteeing those massive profits for US Government on those well placed and actively traded international investments trough [through?] the flood gates of trade pouring into the US and that wealth transfer taking place.

Keep in mind the US Government investments by the 70's, primarily by investment ownership already exerted primary influence over the large domestic corporations in the US. Quietly through private membership associations they exerted their influence to perpetuate the exodus of manufacturing from the US to international locations where the takeover investment plays were taking place through the use of those massive US Government Institutional investment funds to thus again guarantee massive returns on those well placed international government investments.

3. The ease of how the world markets could be manipulated by the US Government Institutional corporate investment cartel outside of public comprehension led to circumstances out of simple greed and opportunity to orchestrate massive theft and conquest on a grand scale by contrived circumstance being created as the pubic as a mushroom was fed b*ll sh*t and kept in the dark. Done so based on the massive and easy wealth transfer out of simple opportunity wanting to build their own fortunes from those contrived circumstance.

Per the masterful entertainment of the public by the controlling parties it was like taking candy from a baby without any consequences or genuine liability for having done so. The two largest contrived circumstance in the last decade that guaranteed the quick transfer of wealth in the trillions of dollars were 911 in 2001 and the housing bubble collapse backed up with a massive international and very profitable (to the tune of 25 to 30 trillion dollars liberated from the domestic and international marks) derivatives play at the end of 2008.

As has been said from many, many generations ago: "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" My personal favorite though is: TREASON: "Treason doth never prosper; what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." Sir John Harrington, 1561-1612

How can this general and now all so pervasive circumstance be corrected for the public's behalf?

The public needs to become the "first line beneficiary". Up until this point the public over the last 1000 years was primarily left out of the loop being looked at by government as a "productivity resource to be drained and managed". (the primary motive and intent of government policy). This was not nor ever will be a "good thing".

Just as much as the comprehension was very effectively held back from the populace per what is stated above due to the massive money; investment return; and control derived therefrom, a void in comprehension will be diligently maintained by the government syndicate to maintain the current in place standard of government corporate operations. What CAFR1 has presented through the TRF - http://TaxRetirement.com/TRFA.html will if enacted make the population the "First Line Beneficiary", inevitably phase out all taxation, make it a win - win for all involved (public; government; and the financial cartels) and most important of all it changes the primary motive and intent of government policy from looking at the public as a productivity resource to be drained and managed into the intent now being to see the public as wealthy and as prosperous as possible.

You see under the TRF mode of operation within government, the more wealthy and prosperous the public is, the greater the truck loads of cash coming in for government and the financial cartels will be. Again a win - win for all involved.

On a special note there is one other fringe benefit of the TRF mode of operation: The orchestrated events such as 911 and the housing bubble collapse would probably not happen again being that it would upset the apple cart of a very prosperous circumstance for "all". You see under the old of the public being a productivity resource to be drained and managed, in the very exclusive "Big Boys Club" there was a tendency to behind closed doors pat the players on the back that "pulled it off". Under the mode of operation of the TRF once in place, if the same was done disrupting the very profitable structured operation of the TRF mode of operation, those pulling off the same would disappear rather violently by directives of the Big Boys Club for have rocked the millennium in place apple cart. See that, even the ultimate greed principle at that point protects the people and all involved. So for the last time a win - win for one and all.

On a last note with emphasis added: If things stay the way they are I don't believe we as a people or a civilization will survive the final circumstances of the inevitable end result and that end could be sooner than you think if and when a snowball world circumstance presents itself that spirals out of anyone's control. In the alternative if and when the TRF mode of operation goes into full play we may just overt the before mentioned and the age-old promised period of the millennium could be at hand and in motion. A thousand years of prosperity for one and all. On a global note the same will work for every country on this planet in the same fashion.

Per stories, lets go back to the first, the story of Adam and Eve choosing between given paradise or eating from the tree of knowledge whereby if they did so they would loose given paradise and have the choice to create their own paradise (or Hell) with the knowledge obtained. My choice is paradise and I have staked my life upon it, what about your choice that through knowledge now present(s) itself to you?

Please share this communication by all means with all that you know and ask them to do the same.

Sent FYI and truly yours,


Walter Burien - CAFR1
P. O. Box 2112
Saint Johns, AZ 85936

Tel. (928) 445-3532

[Mouse]

website is pathetic. TRFA is not explained and the site is terrible. I think this is a rabbithole going nowhere. Solly.

[dys]

website is pathetic. TRFA is not explained and the site is terrible. I think this is a rabbithole going nowhere. Solly.


I don't like the website, either. But that does NOT mean this rabbithole goes nowhere. Questions without answers:

Why isn't each and every investment publicly disclosed in a transparent way?
What about conflict of interest?
WHAT ABOUT CONFLICT OF INTEREST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why aren't the people/taxpayers seeing dividends on OUR investments?
Why can't we take ownership/delivery of OUR holdings?
Why aren't the people/taxpayers privy to the proxy voting issues? Why don't we have input?
If WE (people/taxpayers) have significant and/or even majority holdings in certain publicly traded companies, why are WE permitting these companies to outsource OUR jobs?
Furthermore, why are wages so depressed if this be the case? Why is there no public debate on how WE are going to run our companies?
Why aren't we getting free 'company' cars? Why can't we fire the people that run OUR companies?



Here is the thing, and I don't know if the people in this country (and even the people on this forum) just don't care, but WE own these assets. They are OURS. WE own PMs, foodstuffs, real estate, we have bank accounts with tons of cash in them, we have proxy voting power to make or break industries and people and crooked politicians. We own companies, agriculture, energy, minerals, lobbyists, resources, etc...and it all hedged, insured and probably reinsured.

DOESN'T ANYONE ON THIS FORUM WANT WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY THEIRS?

dys

[Santa]

The public needs to become the "first line beneficiary". Up until this point the public over the last 1000 years was primarily left out of the loop being looked at by government as a "productivity resource to be drained and managed". (the primary motive and intent of government policy). This was not nor ever will be a "good thing".


What's not to agree with in Buriens assessment above, give or take a few eons here and there.

It appears we're being farmed.

[AndreaGail]

Interesting

The teacher for the masters class i am currently enrolled in (gov't accounting) has supplemented the discussion with various facets of the CAFR each class so far

[lapis]

If you can share, it would be great to see what you're learning.

Some explanations I've found online are couched in bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo and basically useless to the average person.

[lapis]

Since Wikipedia deleted its Walter Burien page, someone was kind enough to make a similar one on a PESwiki site.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Site:LRP:Walter_Burien/CAFR_Another_Aspect_Of_The_Control_Paradigm

[Santa]

Since Wikipedia deleted its Walter Burien page, someone was kind enough to make a similar one on a PESwiki site.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Site:LRP:Walter_Burien/CAFR_Another_Aspect_Of_The_Control_Paradigm

bump and thanks, lapis.

[lapis]

Bump! Boy am I pissed. I went to give someone some information from Wikipedia's CAFR entry, and noticed most of it has been neutered. More and more sheeple must be looking into it now.

Compare what I copied from Wikipedia in my first post (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?44893-The-CAFR-(Comprehensive-Annual-Financial-Report)-Thread&p=378234&viewfull=1#post378234) on this thread last year to what they have now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_annual_financial_report

Thank goodness for this forum, where we can record this kind of information before it's scrubbed from the Internet.

[lapis]

BTW, I found another site that has CAFR and other alternative-type information. Whether "they" like it or not, word is getting out.

http://www.comprehensiveannualfinancialreport.com/

http://www.helppeoplenow.com/

[dys]

See below for a very important point made by Clint Richardson. FYI- this dude is running for president with no party affiliation. To add to his well thought out blog post, why is oil at $3.50/gallon if the government owns the oil companies? If they wanted to immediately change the economy to the good, they would cut the price of oil by 50-75% (or more) and we would have an economic recovery the likes of which this country has never seen before- not even after WW2.

dys



Latest post (http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/05/06/why/)at the Reality blog:

As I was going through my emails, I got yet another request from someone who wanted me to sign a petition to send to my political “representative” in office, asking politely to stop funding big oil companies. I sighed in disillusionment, trying to think of a way to make people understand that this form of political action is absolutely useless in a corporate government.

I am so saddened as of late that these types of “petitions” are the focus of so much wasted energy. Writing, calling, and even worse… emailing your “representative” in this kind of futile effort is the worst part of our mutually controlled opposition. The sense of satisfaction and patriotism that is felt by these actions is indeed exactly the desired effect of these actions. They accomplish nothing, and yet makes whole groups feel a sense of accomplishment. A petition has NO legal jurisdiction. A letter is scanned and then filed in the trash, while emails are dumped into a folder on a digital archive never to be seen again.

What a game we play – pawns moving around exactly as we are lead, never changing anything, begging our masters to do what’s right and to start representing us. It’s pathetic!

Don’t you understand? The government owns Exxon Mobile. It has controlling stock interest in the company. It owns British Petroleum, Chevron, and any other petroleum based companies you can think of. If it didn’t have a major or controlling financial interest in BP, that gulf oil spill would have been immediately cleaned up! It wouldn’t have cost the government anything to force this corporation to clean up its mess.

Don’t you Understand? Of course the government gives billions and billions in R&D grants to Pharmaceuticals and medical companies. Government owns those as well, both national and international. It hands these subsidies to these companies because it is profitable for government!!! It must do this to justify its tax collections.

Don’t you understand? They wont stop giving their own profitable businesses subsidies (taxpayer money) just because you say pretty please. They wont stop making a profit to save a few square miles of farmland or housing. And they certainly wont change anything just because a bunch of pussified patriots sign a piece of paper demanding it.

And so, I have compiled this list of just the New York State Retirement Fund’s holdings in Pharmaceuticals, oil companies, the media, and other industries. This is only one out of over 200,000 governments, Federal, state, and local. And if just one single government owns this much in these companies, the answers to the following questions should be as clear as day… government owns and profits from these corporations, and passes the laws which regulate them and to guarantee those profits, regardless of what the public wants. The answer to all questions is simple… it’s just business.

Why are pharmaceuticals and medical companies out of control and killing people? Why is cancer the number one most profitable business, despite proven cures? Why are vaccines soon to be mandatory without one shred of evidence as to them being medically sound? Why are banks allowed to charge practically unlimited interest despite usury laws? Why are banks allowed to foreclose on millions and millions of homes? Why are banks allowed to ignore state laws in lieu of federal laws? Why are products made in China all over the stinking place? Why are dangerous and poisonous products being imported into America? Why is the American market so saturated with foreign products? Why was Exxon and BP not required to clean up their historical oil spills? Why is oil still being used when such vast and wonderful alternatives are all around us? Why is the media lying and misinforming us at every turn, supporting government in every way?

All of these questions are answered by this simple realization…

Government owns it all!!!

Government is in a direct conflict of interest by being major majority shareholder (owner) of all significant corporations, both foreign and domestic.

The following is the New York Pension System holdings in major corporations around the world in 2009. This incomplete list and a 2010 list can be downloaded here:

http://www.osc.state.ny.us/retire/about_us/annual_report_2010/index.php

I challenge you to find a company this government doesn’t own stock in!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Company # of shares Market Value 2009

–Oil and Energy–

Exxon Mobil Corp 18,125,534 1,234,348,865
Chevron Corp 7,698,784 517,666,219
ConocoPhillips 6,003,030 235,078,655
Schlumberger Ltd 4,624,733 187,856,654
BP plc – Sponsored ADR 202,055 8,102,406
Royal Dutch Shell plc – A 1,816,523 40,904,335
Royal Dutch Shell plc – A 2,842,162 63,886,007
Royal Dutch Shell plc – A 84,900 3,761,070
Royal Dutch Shell plc – B 35,812 1,561,761
Royal Dutch Shell plc – B 1,553,412 34,088,987
American Electric Power Co Inc 1,785,207 45,094,329
PG&E Corp 1,249,975 47,774,045
Questar Corp 802,950 23,630,819

[Etc., etc.]

[dys]

Bump! Boy am I pissed. I went to give someone some information from Wikipedia's CAFR entry, and noticed most of it has been neutered. More and more sheeple must be looking into it now.

Compare what I copied from Wikipedia in my first post (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?44893-The-CAFR-(Comprehensive-Annual-Financial-Report)-Thread&p=378234&viewfull=1#post378234) on this thread last year to what they have now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_annual_financial_report

Thank goodness for this forum, where we can record this kind of information before it's scrubbed from the Internet.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is all I can say.

edit to add: Clint Richardson has recently complained about being censored all over the place as well.

dys

[Libertytree]

I've always thought and still do that this is the proverbial elephant in the room that no one seems to see. I know I'm not the most edjumakated feller here but surely others must also understand and know that "government" being majority shareholders in companies has a smell that makes rancid seem like roses comparatively.

[dys]

File this under the 'something else to consider' department. It recently occured to me that Fortune 500 corporate profits are nothing short of another stealth tax. If corporations are all majority owned by government (and btw, when I say 'majority' I don't mean 51%, it's more like 91%), the profits of said corporations are actually a tax. If you add this not unsubstantial tax to all of the other taxes we pay, what is the true tax rate of this country? I would venture to say that it's well in excess of 99%.

And it gets worse than even that. Any realistic assessment of the true financial position of government has to include not just the 185,000 CAFRs of various government corporations, it also has to include the CAFRs of all of public corporations that government owns a majority stake in. If government owns a 90% stake in Microsoft, for example, that means that 90% of Microsoft's assets belong to government which is supposed to be us!

There is real money behind this operation.

Gordon Gecco: "I'm talking about liquid. I'm talking about the kind of money that I don't have to waste time."
They've got that, and more. Much more.

dys

[Santa]

I've always thought and still do that this is the proverbial elephant in the room that no one seems to see.

Mums the word! Every time I bring this topic up, the room groans.

[dys]

I've been thinking about the derivatives thing. I remember reading about this gigantic mess- a quadrillion dollars or some crazy number-the alarm bells went off in my head. Who exactly was investing the kind of money they were talking about? Who had that kind of money? Well, now it's obvious. It's government that is playing this derivatives game with our money. My guess is that there will be a couple of winners (which will be prearranged countries that will suit their purpose) and a whole lot of losers (which will also be prearranged to suit their purpose). And of course the fallout of this prearranged debacle will be used as justification to further their agenda. It's all right there, right in front of us.

dys

[Libertytree]

The CAFR issue is the ONE issue that I'd like to ask Ron Paul about, surely someone as economically astute as he is would know about this.

[JohnQPublic]

I think derivatives are the white elephant in the room. See the header on my website: www.derivativescollapse.com

I had to abandon the site the end of 2008. I just could not keep up with it, plus I realized that ZeroHedge pretty much had things covered.

[dys]

I think derivatives are the white elephant in the room. See the header on my website: www.derivativescollapse.com

I had to abandon the site the end of 2008. I just could not keep up with it, plus I realized that ZeroHedge pretty much had things covered.

And how did most of those those derivatives get purchased? From taxpayer money.

dys

[MNeagle]

The CAFR issue is the ONE issue that I'd like to ask Ron Paul about, surely someone as economically astute as he is would know about this.

Does he have an "Ask Ron Paul" section? May be worth a shot.

[JDRock]

bastards! low life -four flushing- hook nosed- lilly livered- chicken stealing- cockroaches! damn! i feell better now. where else on the internet can a man, rant properly anymore??

[Hatha Sunahara]

I think the mega-trillions of derivatives are a separate scam. The CAFRs reveal accumulated wealth from the transfer of taxpayer money to dishonest (corrupt) governments. That wealth is obtained fraudulently through a budget that hides the assets available to fund 'operations'. But that money is actual real money. It comes from the workers--people who worked for it. The derivatives have no real value--just notional value, and the big swindle here is that notional value has the same status as 'real' value--value that someone has worked for.

The swindle with the hidden wealth of 'Government corporations' is that first they accumulate that wealth with public tax money, and remove your control over it by hiding its existence--in concert with the MSM that never brings it to public attention, and then they pass laws that transfer ownership of that wealth from the taxpayers to private owners. What the public doesn't know about, they cannot resist until after the fact. The courts can be relied upon to uphold the interests of those who control the wealth. It appears to point to a broader conspiracy between the Politicians and the Bankers. The bankers get to control the creation of money, and the wealth they can expropriate from charging interest for the rental of money. The politicians get to control the wealth producing assets--the means of production--the corporations. And when they control all the wealth, who cares about the laws? The government enforces the laws, and the government is controlled by the politicians who have a vested interest in not enforcing the laws. I just wonder if this bankster-politican alliance was hatched so that the banksters could create the Federal Reserve, and provide the funds (and power) to the politicians in exchange for them going along with the 'plan'. The plan, I assume, incorporates the values and attitudes described in that maligned document from the Elders of Zion. Interesting how all the deals the politicians get into are made outside the public view. Most of us are afraid of our politicians because we know they can have us killed.

The beauty of all this is that the politicians can be as dumb as they sound. They don't have to understand CAFRs. They just have to do what they're told. The people who bought them expect them to stay bought. There are a whole lot of transactions that affect all of us that are happening behind closed doors and in secret, including a blackout by the MSM. We are truly being ruled by secrecy.

I just watched Walter Burien's The Biggest Game in Town. A few days ago, I watched Corporation Nation. I think when a significant portion of the people see this, the NWO will be rolled out. That will be a decisive moment. People will be able to go along willingly, or they can rebel against it. That explains the militarization of police, Fema Camps, NDAA, the prison industrial complex, and probably a lot of things we don't know about yet. It's to teach us that if we resist, we will disappear.

It's all interrelated. I think there is a secret group whose members attend the CFR, Bilderberger, and Trilateral meetings, and who have their own network of people who run things. That secret group may be only a few dozen people, who send orders down the authority (obedience) pipeline and that is how the world works. If you don't follow orders, you will be removed. It's a well oiled machine. It is emerging ever so slowly, out of the fog, into plain sight.

Hatha

[dys]

From where I sit the thing to do is to make them take off their masks. Get the CAFRs in front of enough people and all of the pretenses TPTB claim to represent go out the window. Truth, justice, fairness, government for the people and by the people, consent of the governed, innocent until proven guilty, et al....
They aren't going to give up their money and by extention, their power. But at least if enough people become aware of this conspiracy, the real source of their power is exposed- brute force. Why make it easy on them by continuing to play their game?

dys

[dys]

I had a semi-productive conversation with 2 people I'm trying to educate on the CAFR conspiracy. I've made a lot of progress with these 2 over several weeks. I've gotten to the point where they will concede that major media is government owned. They admit that this is a blatant conflict of interest. BUT they actually believe that conflict of interest does not preclude media from reporting truth (me: "HUH?"). Regardless, methinks a seed has been planted.

dys

[Libertytree]

I had a semi-productive conversation with 2 people I'm trying to educate on the CAFR conspiracy. I've made a lot of progress with these 2 over several weeks. I've gotten to the point where they will concede that major media is government owned. They admit that this is a blatant conflict of interest. BUT they actually believe that conflict of interest does not preclude media from reporting truth (me: "HUH?"). Regardless, methinks a seed has been planted.

dys

Seems like these folks are just now starting to look inside the rabbit hole? I do think that maybe if these are numbers kind of people the CAFR's might be a good starting point, kinda like, here...crunch this. Everyone is different though in how they can be awoken and the CAFR's are mighty damn BIG bite!

[Horn]

My choice is paradise and I have staked my life upon it, what about your choice that through knowledge now present(s) itself to you?

Please share this communication by all means with all that you know and ask them to do the same.

Sent FYI and truly yours,


Walter Burien - CAFR1
P. O. Box 2112
Saint Johns, AZ 85936

Tel. (928) 445-3532


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C163ILTfAbw

[lapis]

This evening I got a call from a phone survey person asking about local politics. Usually I just hang up, but since the first question she asked was "what do you think is the most pressing issue in politics?" I just said CAFRs, and took off with it. She didn't brush me off like I thought she would, but asked me more about it and how to spell it. So now it's in the Matrix ^^ somewhere. ;D

[lapis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C163ILTfAbw

I don't know where my brains have been, but this is the first time I realized that the lovely Monica Bellucci is in the Matrix! Duh.

2282

[dys]

Everywhere I go the CAFR scandal rears its ugly head. There is a nice library near to where I live. I enjoy it there. Friendly people that work there, well run, comfortable, etc (I love libraries by nature, anyway). But they are chronically short staffed, so the hours are inconvenient. Also, part of the library is always closed because there is no one to maintain it. This is a RICH town....millions of dollars worth of assets that they are hiding... Why not hire 5 or 10 fulltime employees at good salaries in order to keep it open longer and maintain the whole thing? With so many people out of work, imagine the number of families that could be greatly helped just by ramping up hiring in places that hiring is desperately needed. Not that this will ever happen in real life, but one can dream.

dys

[Libertytree]

Everywhere I go the CAFR scandal rears its ugly head. There is a nice library near to where I live. I enjoy it there. Friendly people that work there, well run, comfortable, etc (I love libraries by nature, anyway). But they are chronically short staffed, so the hours are inconvenient. Also, part of the library is always closed because there is no one to maintain it. This is a RICH town....millions of dollars worth of assets that they are hiding... Why not hire 5 or 10 fulltime employees at good salaries in order to keep it open longer and maintain the whole thing? With so many people out of work, imagine the number of families that could be greatly helped just by ramping up hiring in places that hiring is desperately needed. Not that this will ever happen in real life, but one can dream.

dys

Ever thought of volunteering or offering yourself for employment there? I mean if ya like it that much it wouldn't be like work and you'd be helping folks out too...not to mention the aspect of spreading truth.

[dys]

I had a very fruitful discussion with a bright dude from another forum. Before I get to the discussion, the result of the discussion was the realization that this CAFR thing is a gigantic hedge by TPTB against grass roots movements. Onto the discussion: it pertained to the price of oil:
Me: "Government owns the oil companies. They could slash the price of oil in half tomorrow if they wanted."
Him: "How? 'Ownership' is divided 185,000 ways."

So, you see, even if certain of us were able to come together and get our particular district or county or town or township to change their proxy voting, it would be still be useless because we would be vastly outgunned in the boardrooms unless we could get MOST of these government corporation to go along.

dys

[Santa]

Ever thought of volunteering or offering yourself for employment there? I mean if ya like it that much it wouldn't be like work and you'd be helping folks out too...not to mention the aspect of spreading truth.

It would be rather unlikely for anyone to be able to be a walk in volunteer anymore since you would be considered a "legal liability."
Volunteers mostly come from NGO pools or some other type of corporate affiliation anymore. Libraries occasionally allow volunteers
from institutionalized pools of disabled people to stack books or sweep parking lots.

Hell, even volunteering to work at for profit corporations requires deep academic affiliations and networks.

[Santa]

Limited liability and shareholding through pensions and mutual funds have been major keys in the corporatization of the public at large.

[lapis]

From Walter Burien's latest newsletter:

CAFR1 Revisited - The complete transcript of: "The Biggest Game in Town" 2000


Transcript link - http://cafr1.com/transcript/Trans.html
The video link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwjtbTjTsE

[dys]

Here is a good example of blatant conflict of interest that is demonstrable based on this scandal-

Government owns over 90% (EXTREMELY conservative estimate) of land in the USA. Land that government has no plans to sell...straight from the Comptroller's mouth. Government also owns over 90% of the stock of all major US banks. The decision to horde all this land (that supposedly belongs to the people) is a clever form of price manipulation; and worse, the same entity that is artificially inflating the prices is benefitting from the inflated prices.

dys

[MNeagle]

>[]*bump

Can we re-sticky this valuable thread??

[MNeagle]

Is there a book version of this info? Looking for a Mother's Day gift...

[osoab]

I don't think I have seen this posted on any CAFR thread.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AuDRuP73dJU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AuDRuP73dJU

[dys]

This CAFR scandal, in my opinion. completely exposes TPTBs recent favorite dialectic as a sham (capitalism vs. socialism). Why? To illumstrate, here is a comment posted on the Huffington Post in response to a story about structural unemployment:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-s-goodman/structural-unemployment-t_b_1500810.html

I'm one of the proposers of structural unemployment, which I believe is a result of literally thousands of years of human innovation directed at making life easier for people, not harder. Industrialization, technology and productivity gains have increasingly made human labor less necessary in the production of goods, even as the global population has expanded exponentially. The net result is too many man-hours chasing too few job openings, which also explains wage stagnation as a function of free-market supply and demand. The uncomfortable fact is, we've succeeded beyond our wildest dreams in automating the means of production. Wht we haven't yet come to grips with is how to decouple the right to access what the machines are increasingly producing without adequate purchasing power. Governments have gone in debt up to their eyeballs to supplement wages and lost benefits and preserve the average standard of living...but those are merely short term patches. The natural - but anti-capitalistic - fix is for all citizens to own the means of production, and to intelligently allocate resources in a compassionate, thoughtful, sustainable and socially beneficial way such that all individuals have an equal opportunity to self-actualize and contribute the best of themselves to the world. The power/dominator structure of capitalism and its adolescent high growth engine - which are maintained by equally juvenile and coercive external punishment and reward mechanisms - are becoming more and more destructive as human society matures. It's time for a grown-up economic model.

The comment starts off reasonable enough, then devolves into an argument justifying the abolition of private property. A quick scan of other comments will reveal pro capitalism comments that are equally foolish (as well as immoral) supporting all kinds of foolishness.
But you see, this CAFR thing proves that the solutions are NOT circumscribed to either capitalism (corporatism in reality euphemistically called capitalism) or socialism/communism. There is another solution- give the assets that these government corporations are holding to the people that are supposed to own them. If this was to be done, here are some of the consequences:

1. Every family would own their own land free and clear.
2. Every family would have their own PMs.
3. Every family would have their own cars (free and clear).
4. Every family would have their college expenses, at the bare minimum, heavily subsidized.
5. Every family would have an emergency cash supply (at worst).
6. Every family would have their own educational supplies.
7. Every family would have their own utilities, at worst, heavily subsidized.
Etc etc etc etc.

dys

[Mouse]

Who's going to er, already paid for all this shit, Dys?

Haha

[Carl]

I haven't checked into it at any great detail but I believe the CAFR counts the assets held by the population as being part of the total and I believe there's a lot of double and tripple counting of a single asset by multiple agencies going on.


But that's just a guess

[Glass]

But that's just a guess

Yes it is. an Uninformed one but a guess none the less.

[Carl]

Yes it is. an Uninformed one but a guess none the less. I wouldn't go so far as calling it "uninformed", let's just call it unexplored...

I mean, it's kind of insane for the government to be sitting on billions while driving the economy, which happens to be the basis of those billions, into the ground.

[Carl]

If you can believe that they use birth records to create credit accounts then It's not really that big of a stretch for them to count the population's holdings as theirs to boost credit ratings and bond sales...

[Son-of-Liberty]

Re-read some of this thread this morning and I had revelation.

If the government holds the majority interest in most large corporations then it explains many of their actions and the absurd laws that they pass or continue to enforce.

Shutting down raw milk dairies is protecting their market share of their holdings in the big dairies.

Raiding heritage hog farms in Michigan is protecting big agri's market share. They can't let the small farmers start to become a larger share of the market because that would effect their profits.

When they give a health insurance waiver to McDonald's it's to help their company be more competitive against smaller non-government owned companies.

The banning of health supplements is to protect their interests in the pharmaceutical companies.

etc.

You can pretty much see the financial benefit to the balance sheets of these big companies every time they bring in regulation and red tape that would hinder the smaller companies.

So it isn't just lobbyists, bribery and graft that is influencing politicians, they are protecting the financial interests of the corporation (gov) that they work for.

[dys]

I haven't checked into it at any great detail but I believe the CAFR counts the assets held by the population as being part of the total and I believe there's a lot of double and tripple counting of a single asset by multiple agencies going on.


But that's just a guess

There are over 185,000 of these corporations with assets estimated well over 100 trillion. Even if they are triple counted across the board, that leaves at least 33 trillion dollars in the kitty. Ok, how much of that is potentially held by the populace? I would guess that at most it's 1 trillion, but in case I'm wrong, let's multiply that by 10. That still leaves 23 trillion. Now let's also account for an over estimation of 50% by Walter Burien, now we are down to 12 trillion dollars split over a population of 400 million. Life changing money, for everyone.

Don't want to sell all the stock, just want the cash, PMs, real estate, etc? OK, no problem.

Consider that we (the collective 'we', as in 'we the people') own the multinationals companies. So factor in a huge quarterly dividend, for everyone. Also, factor in free products from these companies. Factor in jobs for everyone that wants one from these companies (why would 'we' want to move OUR jobs overseas).

The implications to this thing are mind blowing.

dys

[Son-of-Liberty]

Factor in jobs for everyone that wants one from these companies (why would 'we' want to move OUR jobs overseas).

dys

We wouldn't but it makes sense why the federal government would push for "free trade" Makes their corporations more profitable.

[palani]

If you can believe that they use birth records to create credit accounts then It's not really that big of a stretch for them to count the population's holdings as theirs to boost credit ratings and bond sales...
One theory has it that if a thing is located in a county (administrative subdivision of a state) and has no UCC1 form on file covering that thing then it belongs to the county by default.

[Carl]

There are over 185,000 of these corporations with assets estimated well over 100 trillion. Even if they are triple counted across the board, that leaves at least 33 trillion dollars in the kitty. Ok, how much of that is potentially held by the populace? I would guess that at most it's 1 trillion, but in case I'm wrong, let's multiply that by 10. That still leaves 23 trillion. Now let's also account for an over estimation of 50% by Walter Burien, now we are down to 12 trillion dollars split over a population of 400 million. Life changing money, for everyone.

Don't want to sell all the stock, just want the cash, PMs, real estate, etc? OK, no problem.

Consider that we (the collective 'we', as in 'we the people') own the multinationals companies. So factor in a huge quarterly dividend, for everyone. Also, factor in free products from these companies. Factor in jobs for everyone that wants one from these companies (why would 'we' want to move OUR jobs overseas).

The implications to this thing are mind blowing.

dys

The estimated total net worth of the entire global economy comes in at about $44 Trillion.

Somebody's accounting is way off, and I'm more inclined to believe that the guy who originated this story is talking out his ass than he is speaking the truth.

[palani]

The right to a thing is determined by possession. Then paper came into existence. The paper is said to "represent" the thing but it is really only paper. Take a scissors to it and it becomes shredded paper.

$44 Trillion is meaningless unless you know what $1 actually is.

[Son-of-Liberty]

The estimated total net worth of the entire global economy comes in at about $44 Trillion.

Somebody's accounting is way off, and I'm more inclined to believe that the guy who originated this story is talking out his ass than he is speaking the truth.

That 44 trillion is the amount of money that changes hands in a year. It isn't the total wealth. The GDP of the USA is about 15 Trillion.

100 trillion doesn't seem that far fetched to me. That would include the value of real estate, stocks, bonds, PM's that the government holds.

[Carl]

That 44 trillion is the amount of money that changes hands in a year. It isn't the total wealth. The GDP of the USA is about 15 Trillion.

100 trillion doesn't seem that far fetched to me. That would include the value of real estate, stocks, bonds, PM's that the government holds. The 15 trillion GDP (more like 7 trillon) is the amount of money changing hands anually.

Checking on the web, it turns out Credit Suisse did a recent survey of over 200 countries to get a total of all assets combined equaling $194.5 trillion. The $44 trillion is total bond sales.

Still, I don't think the U.S. comprises over half the total net worth of over 200 countries assayed.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Looking into the numbers a little more I think you are correct. The 100 trillion is high. 20-30 trillion is possible though.

The point I think is that they are sitting on a lot of wealth and still coming back to the taxpayer for more saying they are broke.

[Santa]

Re-read some of this thread this morning and I had revelation.

If the government holds the majority interest in most large corporations then it explains many of their actions and the absurd laws that they pass or continue to enforce.

Shutting down raw milk dairies is protecting their market share of their holdings in the big dairies.

Raiding heritage hog farms in Michigan is protecting big agri's market share. They can't let the small farmers start to become a larger share of the market because that would effect their profits.

When they give a health insurance waiver to McDonald's it's to help their company be more competitive against smaller non-government owned companies.

The banning of health supplements is to protect their interests in the pharmaceutical companies.

etc.

You can pretty much see the financial benefit to the balance sheets of these big companies every time they bring in regulation and red tape that would hinder the smaller companies.

So it isn't just lobbyists, bribery and graft that is influencing politicians, they are protecting the financial interests of the corporation (gov) that they work for.

Well said.

Also, this explains how and why intersections on very expensive 4 lane throughways and real estate all over the country invariably caters to the ubiquitous Big Box and Petrol Super Stores.
Think of the money necessary to build infrastructure like that for all those, 3 or 4 mega corporations.

[Santa]

As Mom and Pop stores are murdered for monopolization and corporate interests.

[Santa]

While we're all fed an endless load of relentless propaganda about the miracles of free trade and capitalism and how everybody can become an IT tech or cashier.

[Santa]

Government serves as the Mother Corporation. The legal arm and the strong arm of Business.

[Carl]

Plus, you're talking about a conspiracy spanning several decades and 10's of thousands of average people and politicians in all levels of government throughout the entire nation, and this guy is the only one who exposes it???

[Hatha Sunahara]

I probably should have posted my question about who owns whom (government or corporations) in this thread.

Doesn't this seem to be a communist system? If the government owns and controls everything, and your vote doesn't count, then this is no better than Stalinist Soviet Union. The only major difference is that the population doesn't know who really owns and controls everything. They think all the wealth is privately owned. The only thing the people know for sure is that it is not them who own and control everything.

So, if this is the case, what is going on? Are the Rothschilds and Rockefellers and Soros and others using the government as a front for their ownership of everything? Why then do they need 'philanthropic trusts'? Is it to shield their income from taxation?

Also, if this is the case, isn't 'capitalism' just a bad joke? How could there be capitalism if an 'oligarchical collective' owns everything? How can there be democracy if this system ignores the will of the majority of the people?

This conjures up the prescience of George Orwell, whose book within a book in 1984--The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism written by Emmanuel Goldstein is actually the operating system that we all live in. Newspeak and Doublethink are the norms.

What will happen if the population starts to understand this? Or does it matter. The low will never change anything because they are too busy providing for their daily existence to be concerned with what drives things.


Hatha

[dys]

Plus, you're talking about a conspiracy spanning several decades and 10's of thousands of average people and politicians in all levels of government throughout the entire nation, and this guy is the only one who exposes it???

Watch this video:
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?44790-Documentary-The-Corporation-Nation&highlight=corporation+nation
This information is publicly available.

dys

[Carl]

Watch this video:
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?44790-Documentary-The-Corporation-Nation&highlight=corporation+nation
This information is publicly available.

dys

dys, please dude.... That's the video making the claim, what about the 10 decades prior to that?

[Santa]

Carl, I've come to respect you. You're no fool. You don't follow anyone. But this Burien dude was the first to put all those 185,000 or so previously thought of as separate government/corporations together and added up the numbers.
He concluded they were in fact corporations because they were required to file the CAFR in the same manner as every other corporation.

Workaday people in general are so caught up in specialization and minutia that they just can't put bigger pictures together anymore.

This represents a very narrow window into the workings of a collective collaborative enterprise between Government and Big Business that's already beginning to close. I guarantee that these government CAFR's will be made extinct within a very short period of time.

That's all this is. An under the table financial bookkeeping collaboration between Government Corporate interests that uses taxpayer funds to re-invest into Big Biz. Nobody's gonna rat out their bosses since nobody has the big picture.
The idea being that by growing Big Biz with the peoples money, government would be doing their job of securing the people's economic
futures, and by restricting the ability to actually remove those assets it would further protect the people's economic security.

Burien saw this immense fraud where no one had ever even thought to look. In the Financial Reports themselves.

You know that at this point in time government in general has been essentially corrupted by the nature of incorporation. To profit. Only to profit.
Government has divested itself from the people that it was intended to serve and it has constructed barriers of bureaucracy so thick it has become impervious
to even intellectual criticism.

And yes, this implicates the States as well as the counties and cities and townships. All incorporated into the collective. And most people don't even know it. Especially the bureaucrats who fill out the reports annually.

Watch it a couple times and let this shit sink in a little bit.

For some reason, this CAFR business really pisses people off. They reject it out of hand without consideration. As if it's a communicable disease or something. Lol...

You know what my SIL said when I showed her this? She said, "this would destroy my retirement pension. It's bullshit. I don't want to talk about it anymore."

[monty]

Santa, Could you give us your thoughts as to why you believe these CAFR's will be made extinct in a very short time? Is it simply because the whole worldwide paper ballon is about to burst?

monty

[QUOTE=Santa;544804]

This represents a very narrow window into the workings of a collective collaborative enterprise between Government and Big Business that's already beginning to close. I guarantee that these government CAFR's will be made extinct within a very short period of time.

[Santa]

Santa, Could you give us your thoughts as to why you believe these CAFR's will be made extinct in a very short time? Is it simply because the whole worldwide paper ballon is about to burst?

monty

[QUOTE=Santa;544804]

This represents a very narrow window into the workings of a collective collaborative enterprise between Government and Big Business that's already beginning to close. I guarantee that these government CAFR's will be made extinct within a very short period of time.

No... they'll just one day say they no longer need to report information of that nature. It's for national security if you press them. Poof! Gone.

The value of money, or anything really is based on faith. At this point, people don't have faith in the significance of the idea of Infinity, yet.

If the Universe is Infinite, then anything is possible because there are an infinite number of choices the Universe has.

This is what has kept the system from collapsing thus far. The geometric expansion of numbers and systems. They just keep expanding.

And everyone has been conditioned to see the world around them as limited by physical restrictions. You know, Poof! Gone.

However, if the Universe is indeed Infinite, then numbers can expand to infinity.

The impossible becomes quite possible because ideas of scarcity and restriction no longer fit.

Scarcity and restriction has been replaced by a paradigm of infinity.

First it starts as a concept. Then it is formalized. Then it is created by the spin masters.

And it settles into the mind as a fact of nature.

But all this is predicated on human ability to have Faith in Infinity rather than Faith in Scarcity. If it's not possible then my theory's all wrong.

Am I sounding like Ben Bernancke? :)

I have no idea, really, what's gonna happen. ;D

[Hatha Sunahara]

Santa, there is a thread here that you might want to read: http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?61237-Radical-Abundance

Your paradigm of infinity sounds a lot like, if not the same as this.


Hatha

[Santa]

Santa, there is a thread here that you might want to read: http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?61237-Radical-Abundance

Your paradigm of infinity sounds a lot like, if not the same as this.


HathaThat's interesting. I have not watched the videos. My bandwidth is currently being restricted to dial up levels. Grrr.

[dys]

dys, please dude.... That's the video making the claim, what about the 10 decades prior to that?

The first thing is that this thing is relatively new. It's only been going on since the 60's. Also, the value of the investments isn't the only consideration here... it's that these investments exist at all. You have all sorts of implications to this thing independent of value expressed in dollar terms. Straight from the comptroller's mouth: "The government has no intention to sell it (land and real estate holdings)." Who exactly do those land holdings belong to? They are supposed to belong to us, along with all of the other investments. These include cash, PMs, weapons, food, energy, foreign currencies, heavy equipment, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc etc...
Why can't we the people access this wealth?

I strongly urge you to watch that video and/or read this entire thread along with the corporation nation thread linked above.

dys

[Carl]

I Hate Tilting At Windmills, you spend all of your energies and accomplish absolutely nothing.

This, like all the 14th amendment legalistic arguments, is just another giant ******* Windmill thrown into our path to destract and stop any foward progress.

Here's a better descriptive, it's a Black Hole of Debate, because that's all you can do with information like this, debate it. And what makes this even worse, you'll have to explain it to everyone, even to the people who are part of it, before you can debate it. And what would be the purpose of the debate? What do you hope to accomplish? Enlightenment? The ability to point a finger? And admission of guilt from the perpetrators? An apology? Your cut? What?

[Cebu_4_2]

I Hate Tilting At Windmills, you spend all of your energies and accomplish absolutely nothing.

This, like all the 14th amendment legalistic arguments, is just another giant ******* Windmill thrown into our path to destract and stop any foward progress.

Here's a better descriptive, it's a Black Hole of Debate, because that's all you can do with information like this, debate it. And what makes this even worse, you'll have to explain it to everyone, even to the people who are part of it, before you can debate it. And what would be the purpose of the debate? What do you hope to accomplish? Enlightenment? The ability to point a finger? And admission of guilt from the perpetrators? An apology? Your cut? What?

Beats eating face.

[dys]

I Hate Tilting At Windmills, you spend all of your energies and accomplish absolutely nothing.

This, like all the 14th amendment legalistic arguments, is just another giant ******* Windmill thrown into our path to destract and stop any foward progress.

Here's a better descriptive, it's a Black Hole of Debate, because that's all you can do with information like this, debate it. And what makes this even worse, you'll have to explain it to everyone, even to the people who are part of it, before you can debate it. And what would be the purpose of the debate? What do you hope to accomplish? Enlightenment? The ability to point a finger? And admission of guilt from the perpetrators? An apology? Your cut? What?


I vociferously disagree with you. In my mind, this information is so powerful that it could change the world if enough people could grasp it. Some of the potential repercussions:

1. The bad guys can't play the fake scarcity game anymore.
2. The bad guys can't play the blame the victim game anymore.
3. The bad guys can't play the work 16 hours a day if you want to get ahead game anymore.
4. The bad guys can't play the buried in dead game anymore.

I'm not so naaive to think that those with the money and power will be handing it over to the serfs. But this info could certainly make them take off their masks. It's a good start.

dys

[Carl]

I vociferously disagree with you. In my mind, this information is so powerful that it could change the world if enough people could grasp it. Some of the potential repercussions:

1. The bad guys can't play the fake scarcity game anymore.
2. The bad guys can't play the blame the victim game anymore.
3. The bad guys can't play the work 16 hours a day if you want to get ahead game anymore.
4. The bad guys can't play the buried in dead game anymore.

I'm not so naaive to think that those with the money and power will be handing it over to the serfs. But this info could certainly make them take off their masks. It's a good start.

dys
No it is not a good start, it's not a start at all.

It's false hope that gets you chasing after that pot of gold at the end of that ever elusive rainbow.

It's just another carrot, dangling at the end of a stick, and they're holding the stick.

[dys]

No it is not a good start, it's not a start at all.

It's false hope that gets you chasing after that pot of gold at the end of that ever elusive rainbow.

It's just another carrot, dangling at the end of a stick, and they're holding the stick.

Dude, are you for real? You have refused to watch the video. You have refused to even acknowledge the FACT that government is maintaining 2 sets of books- budget and CAFR. You have refused to acknowledge the FACT that all government entities are for profit corporations. One tiny aspect of this thing could change the world, this is bigger than the federal reserve conspiracy.

dys

[Carl]

Dude, are you for real? You have refused to watch the video. You have refused to even acknowledge the FACT that government is maintaining 2 sets of books- budget and CAFR. You have refused to acknowledge the FACT that all government entities are for profit corporations. One tiny aspect of this thing could change the world, this is bigger than the federal reserve conspiracy.

dys

I'm saying, whether or not it's real, it's irrelevant. Besides, they're in the process of destroying it all anyway.

I'm saying, that I will not go chasing after carrots dangling at the end of a stick, especially when they are holding the stick.

I'm saying, I will not be distracted from the pursuit of Liberty, we can deal with that crap after we win.

This crap is Freegold all over again, "leave us in power and we'll give you a taste".

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Maximum exposure is necessary.

There are trillions of dollars in an off the books economic entity which has a controlling interest in almost every publicly traded corporation in America.


I will not go chasing after carrots dangling at the end of a stick, especially when they are holding the stick.

It is not about chasing carrots. It is about all of us publicly agreeing that this has happened, and examining the books in an open-source manner.



This crap is Freegold all over again, "leave us in power and we'll give you a taste".

You're saying you don't want to leave them in power. Act like it. Demand exposure.

[Carl]

Maximum exposure is necessary.

There are trillions of dollars in an off the books economic entity which has a controlling interest in almost every publicly traded corporation in America.

It is not about chasing carrots. It is about all of us publicly agreeing that this has happened, and examining the books in an open-source manner.

You're saying you don't want to leave them in power. Act like it. Demand exposure. The video I watched had an aged white guy talking about not ever paying taxes again and receiving some sort of dividend from the government's activities. It appears he's about three strides ahead of everybody else in pursuit of that carrot.

This isn't about justice, it's about getting some.

And what we have to go on, his interpretation of the CAFR.

He's been making his claim for what, over two years now?

Here's a link to an actual report:

Comprehensive Annual Financial Report
(http://www.ofm.wa.gov/cafr/default.asp)
Good Luck, and I truly mean that.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Did you get to the part of the video which shows over 100,000 CAFRs existing simultaneously?

City after city after city after city after county after county after state after state after state!

Each City / State / County = a corporation which has invested millions in the stock market.

[Hatha Sunahara]

The governments own the big corporations through their 'employee pension funds'. They use tax money to contribute from 1 to 10 times or more what the employees contribute. Their investment vehicle is the 'Employer Contribution' to the pension funds. They all do this. All the government pension funds. That's how they buy stock in big corporations--with tax money. The taxpayers get no benefit from this.

You may find it helpful to watch The Great Pension Fund Hoax here:

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?61251-The-Great-Pension-Fund-Hoax

This is a 4 hour video, but you can get the idea if you watch the first 30 minutes or so, and the last 30 minutes or so. The part in the middle is tedious because he goes through many dozens of CAFRs of state pension funds, but it contains some interesting trivia. The government employees do not own these corporations nor do they own any of the pension fund assets--they own a promise the government made to pay them a pension and nothing more, or less.

I'm not sure if Walter Burien describes this diversion of tax money to the pension funds on his CAFR1 site--I doubt that he would miss describing this way the government hoards wealth.

Hatha

[PatColo]

In "The Documentary: The Corporation Nation" thread (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/documentary-the-corporation-nation/msg191492/#msg191492), Santa reminded me of a great CAFR thread that used to be stickied at GIM1.

interview with Corporation Nation maker. Jump to 1hr 12min, caller asks what Clint thinks of Walter Burrian & CAFR. Clint speaks very highly of him for the next 5 mins or so, gives an overview of the corruption in play.


Spingola Speaks 2012.05.31 (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2012/05/spingola-speaks-20120531.html)

http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/Deanna.jpg (http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/Deanna.jpg)
Clint Richardson, Producer of The Corporate Nation,

http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/

http://www.spingola.com/radio_schedule.html

Listen (http://www.talkshoe.com/resources/talkshoe/images/swf/lastEpisodePlayer.swf?fileUrl=http://k005.kiwi6.com/hotlink/o1fzv9cel7/spingola_speaks_2012_05_31.mp3)

Download (http://k005.kiwi6.com/hotlink/o1fzv9cel7/spingola_speaks_2012_05_31.mp3)

[Carl]

The governments own the big corporations through their 'employee pension funds'. They use tax money to contribute from 1 to 10 times or more what the employees contribute. Their investment vehicle is the 'Employer Contribution' to the pension funds. They all do this. All the government pension funds. That's how they buy stock in big corporations--with tax money. The taxpayers get no benefit from this.

You may find it helpful to watch The Great Pension Fund Hoax here:

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?61251-The-Great-Pension-Fund-Hoax

This is a 4 hour video, but you can get the idea if you watch the first 30 minutes or so, and the last 30 minutes or so. The part in the middle is tedious because he goes through many dozens of CAFRs of state pension funds, but it contains some interesting trivia. The government employees do not own these corporations nor do they own any of the pension fund assets--they own a promise the government made to pay them a pension and nothing more, or less.

I'm not sure if Walter Burien describes this diversion of tax money to the pension funds on his CAFR1 site--I doubt that he would miss describing this way the government hoards wealth.

Hatha

Hatha, the guy is talking out his ass. Asset values is not money held. A Y.O.Y. change in Asset Values is not "PROFIT" unless they SELL the assets and take that difference as profit.

[DMac]

Dividends is the real problem here, IMO. Someone is pocketing all that money.

I do not subscribe to the idea CAFR funds should be sold off and given to the people. The last thing we need is the rich owning more than they do now. That would become hardcore neo-feudalism.

[Carl]

Dividends is the real problem here, IMO. Someone is pocketing all that money.

I do not subscribe to the idea CAFR funds should be sold off and given to the people. The last thing we need is the rich owning more than they do now. That would become hardcore neo-feudalism. I believe the dividends are used to pay pensions, but I could be wrong....

[Hatha Sunahara]

What I saw as the problem is the amount of the 'Employer' (government) contribution to these pension funds. These were in some cases 10 times or more than the 'Employee' contribution. That smacks of hiding the money. The pension funds belong to the governments--not to the employees. Their ownership of large portions of private companies gives them control over those companies--especially if they act in a coordinated way to exercise that control. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some group that represents all these state and local government pension funds which tells the companies that are owned by these funds what policies to adopt.


Hatha

[Carl]

What I saw as the problem is the amount of the 'Employer' (government) contribution to these pension funds. These were in some cases 10 times or more than the 'Employee' contribution. That smacks of hiding the money. The pension funds belong to the governments--not to the employees. Their ownership of large portions of private companies gives them control over those companies--especially if they act in a coordinated way to exercise that control. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some group that represents all these state and local government pension funds which tells the companies that are owned by these funds what policies to adopt.


Hatha
The indirect beneficiary of government contributions is the pension receipient.

What is real and very troubling is the amount of power these pension fund managers wield over corporations and here's an example:


CalSTRS to Vote 5.3 Million Shares Against Entire Wal-Mart Board

WEST SACRAMENTO, CA – Jack Ehnes, chief executive officer of CalSTRS, the California State Teachers' Retirement System, made the following statement regarding CalSTRS' intent to vote its 5.3 million shares, worth $313.5 million, at the upcoming shareholder meeting:

"CalSTRS believes former and current Wal-Mart executives and board members breached their fiduciary responsibilities. They did so by failing to respond to indications of a pattern of unethical conduct in the company's foreign operations. Beyond that, CalSTRS believes that in some cases, Wal-Mart leadership actively suppressed an internal investigation which would have brought these improper actions to light.

Based on these allegations, which indicate a breakdown of corporate governance and lack of oversight that should have averted this situation, CalSTRS does not have confidence that the current board has the independence and leadership needed to address these difficult issues.

CalSTRS will vote its more than five million investor shares against the entire board's reelection at Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. annual meeting. We encourage our fellow shareholders to do the same.

As a long-term investor, CalSTRS wants Wal-Mart to have long-term value for our members, the teachers of California. CalSTRS also thinks that ethical corporate governance practices lead to sustained profitability. Wal-Mart has established high principles for ethical behavior. Now it needs to live by them, not just on the retail level, but in the executive suites and the boardroom."

The California State Teachers' Retirement System, with a portfolio valued at $153.7 billion as of April 30, 2012, is the largest teacher pension fund and second largest public pension fund in the United States. CalSTRS administers a hybrid retirement system, consisting of traditional defined benefit, cash balance and defined contribution plans, as well as disability and survivor benefits. CalSTRS serves California's 856,000 public school educators and their families from the state's 1,600 school districts, county offices of education and community college districts.

[Santa]

Hatha, the guy is talking out his ass. Asset values is not money held. A Y.O.Y. change in Asset Values is not "PROFIT" unless they SELL the assets and take that difference as profit.

I agree in the sense that these assets shouldn't probably be looked at as profit in terms of $$$ windfall. If the assets were removed, the Global Corporate feeding frenzy would likely collapse and the assets would lose their value.

It shows financial fraud perpetrated between government and big business.

It shows how and why big business has become too big to fail.

The CAFR says, "Look here, Mr. Taxpayer, your government is taking your money,... and investing it back into the largest private corporations in the market, see? But since government wants your money,... to be safe,... you can't ever use or remove it,. No no no. You can't even redirect it toward more socially beneficial projects. Ever. See how safe it is? Not even you can use it. Only "Big Business" Government Chartered "Privateers" have essentially unrestricted use of these assets. Forever, thank you. Haha."

[Santa]

The CAFR is like the book that the bookie keeps in his back pocket while he reads from the one in his hand that says
you owe $5000, but the book in his back pocket says your debt has already been payed.

[Carl]

I agree in the sense that these assets shouldn't probably be looked at as profit in terms of $$$ windfall. If the assets were removed, the Global Corporate feeding frenzy would likely collapse and the assets would lose their value.

It shows financial fraud perpetrated between government and big business.

It shows how and why big business has become too big to fail.

The CAFR says, "Look here, Mr. Taxpayer, your government is taking your money,... and investing it back into the largest private corporations in the market, see? But since government wants your money,... to be safe,... you can't ever use or remove it,. No no no. You can't even redirect it toward more socially beneficial projects. Ever. See how safe it is? Not even you can use it. Only "Big Business""Privateers" have essentially unrestricted use of these assets. Forever, thank you. Haha."

I agree.

[Carl]

The CAFR is like the book that the bookie keeps in his back pocket while he reads from the one in his hand that says
you owe $5000, but the book in his back pocket says your debt has already been payed.

I'll have to think about that for awhile...

[dys]

For some reason this discussion always seems to get bogged down to the value of the assets. I've heard people say, for example "there is no buyer" (meaning the assets' value is much less than portrayed). To me, the value of the assets is not the most important thing- it's the conflict of interest. How can you have a corporation owned by the same entity that is supposed to pass laws to govern that corporation? How can you have an objective media that is government owned? How can you effectively restrain monopolies from forming, bribery, graft, etc?

dys

[dys]

Well guys, I caught a huge break in understanding this thing. There is a guy that I know, a high level executive that works for a hospital (not a government corporation). After pestering him for the last few months or so, he was finally willing to sit down and talk to me about how this thing works from an insider's perspective.

First of all, he confirmed that there are 2 sets of books that are maintained for most corporations. He said that most mid level executives are aware that there are investments and that those investments are maintained/recorded/reconciled/etc through the second set of books- the CAFR- but those investments are totally off limits to use for what is typically thought of as the budget. He said that anyone that wants to advance anywhere in the company quickly learns that it is a no no to even bring up the 2nd set of books as far as using the money or assets to bridge budget gaps or use for R&D, or anything really. They (the midlevel executives) are told that there is a certain rainy day threshhold that must be maintained for the safety of the company (this excuse sounds familiar, we've heard it before). Of course, the details of that threshhold and/or how it is decided upon is secret info. He also told me that as he moved up in the company, he eventually was made privy to who is in charge of these assets, what they are, who benefits, etc...but he wouldn't tell me anything more about that. He told me "dys, I know you, you'll be calling these guys if I tell you, and I can't have that". He also confirmed that there are huge conflict of interests present in the investments; and that many of the stock investments also have proxy voting power.

Keep in mind that the hospital this guy works for is fairly SMALL. If this exists for a small company, what is true hidden power of major corporations?

dys

PS- I almost forgot one of the most important parts- he told me that the investment side of the corporation is MUCH more important than the regular company!

[Hatha Sunahara]

Does it seem that the big secret in most organizations is where the money is hidden? Or if it's not money, it's hidden wealth in some other form. And if you know this secret, you're an insider. And if you don't know, you're an outsider.


Hatha

[Libertytree]

I have no problem with corps having 2 or 20 sets of books, what I do have a problem with is city, state and fed .gov's having 2 sets of books.

[dys]

Does it seem that the big secret in most organizations is where the money is hidden? Or if it's not money, it's hidden wealth in some other form. And if you know this secret, you're an insider. And if you don't know, you're an outsider.


Hatha

I think the big secret is not necessarily where they are hidden or even how much money, but rather who benefits from these monies/assets and who makes the decisions about them.
For example, say the hospital gets an insurance payment for say, 10k. Someone is determining if that 10k goes into an operating account, or a client trust fund, or some other fund which is then reinvested. The reinvestment is determined by someone, for example to be overnight T-bills, or a cash account, stock purchase, futures contract, etc...and then the profits from these investments are then disbursed according to the decision of some unnamed person(s).

The common theme from reading this thread and asking a ton of questions IRL is that anytime anyone gets the notion to actually USE the money from these investments, they are told something along of the lines of "we can't access that money". Often this is accompanied by the 'rainy day fund' excuse, but there is never an explanation given to how this rainy day fund threshold is determined and who determines it.

The conversation I had with this guy was very revealing. He was more than willing to discuss the existence of these funds and even talked about certain of the conflict of interests in these investments. For example, he acknowledged that there were stock purchases in the company Pfizer, a drug company. He even mentioned a story about how certain overpriced medical supplies were purchased from a company due to an investment in that company. But when I wanted to talk specifically about WHO was making these decisions, how they were paid, how much they were making, etc....he wasn't willing to go there at all, even though it was obvious that he knew. He did seem to intimate that this system was in place as much to keep profits up and wages down as it was to make specific people rich (although I'm sure that both happen in practice).

dys

[dys]

I have no problem with corps having 2 or 20 sets of books, what I do have a problem with is city, state and fed .gov's having 2 sets of books.

To me the corporate governence is worse, but they are both bad. Why? Because it's a direct attack on multiple fronts on the standard of living of ordinary people. Think of it this way: you are a company that just made 1 million dollars. You can either take that million and create a new product, expand, hire new people, etc....
OR
You can simply invest the money, hedge the investments up the ass, and wait.

The former is frought with risk, taxes, and it takes a long time to achieve.
The latter is simpler, faster, has less risk, makes better sense for the price of your stock (keep in mind other companies will be doing the same thing you are doing), and has a smaller tax liability. edit to add: It also has the ancillary benefit of buying influence, political and otherwise.

Which are you going to choose?

Now remember, back in the 60's which is supposedly when this thing started, a high school educated man could buy a house and support a family with an average full time job. Now look at the way things are. You tell me, doesn't it make sense that this thing is a huge part of that?

dys

[dys]

Thinking about it a little further, to some extent it doesn't matter whether it isa government or private business engaged in these investments, they are still invevitably married.
How? An example to demonstrate:

A steel company is looking for a favorable court ruling so they can continue to dump toxic sludge in the drinking water.
A politician that needs to get re-elected needs to build a new school to get votes, but doesn't have the money in the budget to pay for it. He sells bonds in order to do so, but is having trouble finding a buyer.
Steel company CEO calls politician and offers to buy the bonds in exchange for a favorable ruling.
Politician then calls his judge buddy, or appoints a judge on the condition he gives the favorable ruling...

You see, corporate investments cannot exist in a vaccuum. There is always a political angle that can be exploited and this is the way that corporations can expoit that angle without anyone finding out about it.

dys

[dys]

Why is it that no one wants to discuss something as important as this?
I'll never understand it.

Only reason I can possibly think of is that there are a lot more shills and agents than I thought there were.

dys

[JohnQPublic]

Dys. The government, through their investment funds now own significant portions of the corporations who own municipal and other bonds in their investment, retirement, etc. funds. It is a gigantic circle jerk.

I don't know about these 2nd books in companies, but I wonder if when a company gets sold, goes bankrupt, etc., if these monies might get disbursed to the executives?

[dys]

Dys. The government, through their investment funds now own significant portions of the corporations who own municipal and other bonds in their investment, retirement, etc. funds. It is a gigantic circle jerk.

I don't know about these 2nd books in companies, but I wonder if when a company gets sold, goes bankrupt, etc., if these monies might get disbursed to the executives?

RE: bankruptcy. I asked the executive that very question and he was vague. An answer somewhat along the lines of "we don't like to use to assets from our investments to fund the regular business..."
Which begs the question: where do they go and who gets paid? Maybe this is where these crazy golden parachutes you hear about come from.

dys

[Hatha Sunahara]

Here's a little more weight to my earlier assertion that the big secret is where the money is hidden.


Senator Liu on CA CAFR $600 billion: “No comment.
After 5 weeks’ consideration of data from their own Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR), documented with page numbers showing $600 billion in surplus taxpayer funds (video explanation here), Assemblymember Anthony Portantino and Senator Carol Liu choose to say to their constituents and taxpayers:


“No comment.”

It was actually worse: Both rejected weekly requests to simply affirm the data. Anthony AND Chief of Staff Trent Hager refused to explain his “no comment.”

Carol AND consultant Robert Oakes:


evaded for five weeks,
then claimed they needed specialized legal opinion,
then refused public comment,
Robert finished by e-mailing me, “We’re always glad to address concerns of 21st Senate District residents, who should use the “Contact Me” section on Sen. Liu’s website. Residents outside the District, of course, should contact their elected officials. This report is an annual audit of the basic financial statements of the state.”

I feel accurate with this characterization of my state reps and staff contacts, given their roles to hide colossal taxpayer surpluses: “Asset holes.”



The rest of it is here: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/07/senator-liu-on-ca-cafr-600-billion-no-comment-were-always-glad-to-address-concerns.html

And what about those CA cities that are going bankrupt? Stockton and San Bernardino are two of the five. Who gets to keep the surpluses when these cities are gone?


Hatha

[Cebu_4_2]

And what about those CA cities that are going bankrupt? Stockton and San Bernardino are two of the five. Who gets to keep the surpluses when these cities are gone?
Hatha

The ones that kept it secret? Is this some trick question?

[Libertytree]

The ones that kept it secret? Is this some trick question?

Hidden in plain sight.

[dys]

I have come to the conclusion that it is easier to get people to talk about anything other than this CAFR scandal. The Jewish conspiracy and even chemtrails are easier for people to grasp, and for the life of me I can't figure out why. And anyone involved in this thing from the inside won't say boo.

I talked to another insider the other day and he didn't give me squat. He used a lame version of the 'rainy day fund' excuse. His reasoning- get this- is that if we start releasing the assets to the people in whatever form (dividends, land, signifantly reduced taxes, even jobs via insourcing or public works projects), in 5 or 6 generations as a country we will have have too little money saved.
He had the balls to stick with that excuse for a 45 minute long ride (he is now semi retired and owns a limo company part time, so I hired him for a chance to get some info out of him), and believe me I didn't let up on this guy until the very last second.

dys

[woodman]

Why is it that no one wants to discuss something as important as this?
I'll never understand it.

Only reason I can possibly think of is that there are a lot more shills and agents than I thought there were.

I have come to the conclusion that it is easier to get people to talk about anything other than this CAFR scandal. The Jewish conspiracy and even chemtrails are easier for people to grasp, and for the life of me I can't figure out why. And anyone involved in this thing from the inside won't say boo.


dys

What do you want us to say Dys? We know we are being milked. We are being robbed and stomped upon in myriad ways. Every municipality is run like a fiefdom for the benefit of the insiders. We know all this. It is obvious. Until the mass of people wake up and get beligerant about the ongoing rape that is being done to them and their families, it will be useless to try to stop it. It cannot be stopped if the mass of people refuse to see it is happening. For the average person, if they don't see it on a television expose', then it simply does not exist. Their reality is shaped by the media. That is it. End of story. Public schooling must have worked it's sinister magic.

As for myself I have done so much typiing

on here and on the old GIM over the years that I sometimes feel like I am simply saying the same thing over and over again. I don't even say much anymore to anyone about the conspiracies of the elite that are destroying our once beautifull world and enthralling and degrading the human race.

If you want to solve this thing somehow, then you'd better begin by figuring out how to wake people up. Probem is that people often don't want to be woken up and become violent when you try to shake them out of their finely crafted, delusive state. Remember that line from the Matrix: "You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

Janisairiees my freind.

In my case, I have gotten tired and burnt out. I don't even post much anymore but just lurk, picking up little amusing bits of chatter.

Aren't you the one who found out how dangerous it is to try and wake up a sleeping man? Machette, wasn't it? How did that ever turn out?

[woodman]

They have the whole thing tied up in a tidy little package. They are running a well crafted protection racket. Until the common man understands the nature of our government (organized crime), nothing will change.

[Skirnir_]

Until the common man understands the nature of our government (organized crime), nothing will change.

If that is true, then nothing will change.

[woodman]

If that is true, then nothing will change.

Hi Skirnir. Long time bro. I remember the Agora days.

Do you believe otherwise? We who understand the nature of government are far the minority. Those of us who understand the nature of government and are not part of the swindle are far less numerous yet. The only way I see things changing for the better without the mass of humanity understanding the way of things and rising up to make it stop, is for those who are in control to develop a consience. Fat chance!

[Skirnir_]

The only way I see things changing for the better without the mass of humanity understanding the way of things and rising up to make it stop, is for those who are in control to develop a consience. Fat chance!

Exactly. Most people are dumb apes who cannot develop an understanding beyond subject+verb+object, or classification into 'good' or 'bad'. That is why 95% will always be manipulated, and the other 5% can be managed through manipulation or more direct means. There might be a chance if the said 5% were to learn how to manipulate, but I do not see that happening...most are too preoccupied with nonsense that is of no consequence if the posts here are a valid indication.

[woodman]

I have heard it said that a determined minority has always been the agent of change. Such as the American Revolution, supposedly only a small fraction of the colonists openly agreed and enlisted into the rebellion. I don't know. I do know that with the high tech concentration camp that has been created worldwide that it will become increasingly difficult to effect change without mass awakening. Also, in the days of the colonies rebelling, we were an tightly knit, racially cohesive and culturally intact body. This is no longer the case. The NWO and all it's familiars did their work well. The Jews armed with false knowledge of holocaust events and intentionally created unease about the intentions of non-Jewish whites, purposefully got behind and abbetted the imigration reform act of '65. It's been downhill for all white nations since this destructive action. We have been purposefully diluted to sap our strength and purpose as a cohesive body. Without cohesion disintegration is the only way for things to progress.

It's all in the Protocols.

The CAFR revelations are really nothing new. Didn't we all understand they've been milking us? As to them divulging the location of their stolen monies, and that is what they must be considered, stolen, don't count on it. As far as their political representatives and their organ of hypnosis enabling their predations, the press, don't count on any help there.

[Skirnir_]

All agents of change may well have been determined minorities, but not all determined minorities have been agents of change. Basic things, like how to get to the damn point, how to avoid appearing to be a nutcase, not to speak of more complex matters such as public relations are lacking in what may be called the anti-NWO movement.

The underlying symptom is likely a widespread lack of pragmatism, as defined by Oxford as:

dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations
The preoccupation with theoretical matters as opposed to effecting a means to an end has only led to unproductive talk and no action.

[vacuum]

Exactly. Most people are dumb apes who cannot develop an understanding beyond subject+verb+object, or classification into 'good' or 'bad'. That is why 95% will always be manipulated, and the other 5% can be managed through manipulation or more direct means. There might be a chance if the said 5% were to learn how to manipulate, but I do not see that happening...most are too preoccupied with nonsense that is of no consequence if the posts here are a valid indication.

I used to think that as well, but now I believe that everyone is more-or-less the same, at least those of the same race. The truly exceptional people are very few and many times unrecognizable to us because they are on a level above us.

As you mentioned in a previous thread, a society is a separate entity with it's own life. Once you understand that, you'll be able to understand how it 'wakes up', changes, and evolves. The way this occurs is through traumatic experience. As individuals, hardships and overcoming huge challenges cause us to grow, crystallize, and purify us. Personal hardship is a common theme among many great people in history.

Similarly, as a society, once we collectively experience our own destruction, probably with many dying in the process, we will evolve and become more awake. (necessary death and destruction might be a deception though)

[Skirnir_]

I used to think that as well, but now I believe that everyone is more-or-less the same, at least those of the same race. The truly exceptional people are very few and many times unrecognizable to us because they are on a level above us.

You might well think that again. Fatuous sentiments of egalitarianism are best banished by observing other people. The mental faculties to comprehend complex ideas, patterns, etc. are lost on the overwhelming majority of the population.


As you mentioned in a previous thread, a society is a separate entity with it's own life. Once you understand that, you'll be able to understand how it 'wakes up', changes, and evolves. The way this occurs is through traumatic experience. As individuals, hardships and overcoming huge challenges cause us to grow, crystallize, and purify us. Personal hardship is a common theme among many great people in history.

You are likely referencing this post (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?62031-Anyone-else-turned-into-a-hermit&p=554804&viewfull=1#post554804) wherein I quoted Von Mises from Human Action wherein he was critical of the "holistic and metaphysical view of society".

What is commonly referred to as a society is merely a composite of individuals...95% of them of dull-normal intelligence at best. It does not act, only individuals act. In passing, I detest the phrase 'wake up' since it is often the equivalent of a chemist drawing a circle on a whiteboard and writing 'something happens here'.


Similarly, as a society, once we collectively experience our own destruction, probably with many dying in the process, we will evolve and become more awake. (necessary death and destruction might be a deception though)

The brain-dead will not will not 'wake up' for the same reason Polyphemus never saw again after a certain encounter: he lacked the means to do so.

[osoab]

I detest the phrase 'wake up' since it is often the equivalent of a chemist drawing a circle on a whiteboard and writing 'something happens here'.


Sig worthy right there.

[vacuum]

You might well think that again. Fatuous sentiments of egalitarianism are best banished by observing other people. The mental faculties to comprehend complex ideas, patterns, etc. are lost on the overwhelming majority of the population.
This is a complicated discussion. I don't think all people or all living things are equal, but rather we're all relatively similar. As an example - we can say that the vast majority of us are all like acorns. Now, in a sea of acorns, some are clearly superior to others. Some are perfectly symmetrical, properly colored, and have the best nutrients. Others might be broken or half-rotted...maybe they can't even sprout. In this case, there are huge distinctions. However, we have the potential to grow into a massive oak tree. 99.99% of us will never achieve that. So in summary, yes, you and I are probably superior to the vast majority of others, but we are still closer to them than beings much greater than us. Just like the acorn isn't even aware of the existence of the oak tree because it is so much larger than it, we can't necessarily even recognize our own relative significance.


You are likely referencing this post (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?62031-Anyone-else-turned-into-a-hermit&p=554804&viewfull=1#post554804) wherein I quoted Von Mises from Human Action wherein he was critical of the "holistic and metaphysical view of society".

What is commonly referred to as a society is merely a composite of individuals...95% of them of dull-normal intelligence at best. It does not act, only individuals act.
I am not concerned with the organization of society, whether it be based on obedience to faith or it be a secular liberal society. There are many other things that bind it such as culture and moral values. The key thing is that it behaves as a single organism.


In passing, I detest the phrase 'wake up' since it is often the equivalent of a chemist drawing a circle on a whiteboard and writing 'something happens here'.
I completely understand, and feel the same way when other people use that term. However when I use it, it has a precise meaning. It is the state of self-remembering. Basically, what it means is you observe yourself at all times, which leads to self-awareness.


The brain-dead will not will not 'wake up' for the same reason Polyphemus never saw again after a certain encounter: he lacked the means to do so.
The process is actually more emotional than it is intellectual. That's why reason will never work, because intellectual thoughts are an effect, not a cause. This is why whenever public opinion is steered, it's never through discourse. Rather it's through emotional appeal, or more fundamentally, through impressions. That's why traumatic events can change us unlike other things - because they change our impressions.

http://www.swamij.com/images/karma-01.gif

[Hatha Sunahara]

I was posing a serious question above. Who gets the money when the people in the organizations who collected excess tax money no longer have the organizations that can do this? Who does the accumulated wealth belong to? It is certainly not in the possession of the 'people'.

My curiosity arises from what I have been learning recently about the US declaring bankruptcy in 1933. Most people do not know this since it is not in the history books. Apparently WW I, the first war funded entirely by debt to the international bankers, and the failure of the government to collect enough income taxes from the people caused the government to become insolvent. They could not pay interest on the debt, and the international bankers took ownership of the country. They first removed the gold from circulation, and it is a big mystery where that went. Then they made slaves of all the people with birth certificates and all sorts of licenses and registrations. Nobody seems to understand that they are slaves. Nor that the government is their master. They still teach the constitution and bill of rights in school, although those organic documents mean nothing today.

So, once you are separated from your money by paying your taxes, if it is excess to the needs of the masters, who owns the money? The fact that our politicians do not want to talk about it means that it is a really big issue. It is so big that it can cause some tears in the fabric of our consciousness--that deeply buried source of our understanding of the world. If all this wealth exists, why are so many governments going belly up? And why are the politicians trying to hide it? Do they think we are not capable of handling the truth?

Hatha

[Santa]

Well, as far as CAFR goes, isn't most of the money tied up in the Market and the GovCorp fascist hegemony?
I wonder, if they redirected that flow of monies to where it truly belongs, in the hands and interests of the people,
how long could the bulk of the Corporate world survive? I'd bet it wouldn't be long. I'd bet multinational GovCorp monopolies are far less "efficient" than we've been led to believe by media propaganda.

[Skirnir_]

In regards to vacuum's post, I should again quote Von Mises:


According to the doctrines of universalism, conceptual realism, holism, collectivism, and some representatives of Gestaltpsychologie, society is an entity living its own life, independent of and separate from the lives of the various individuals, acting on its own behalf and aiming at its own ends which are different from the ends sought by the individuals. Then, of course, an antagonism between the aims of society and those of its members can emerge. In order to safeguard the flowering and further development of society it becomes necessary to master the selfishness of the individuals and to compel them to sacrifice their egoistic designs to the benefit of society. At this point all these holistic doctrines are bound to abandon the secular methods of human science and logical reasoning and to shift to theological or metaphysical professions of faith. They must assume that Providence, through its prophets, apostles, and charismatic leaders, forces men who are constitutionally wicked, i.e., prone to pursue their own ends, to walk in the ways of righteousness which the Lord or Weltgeist or history wants them to walk.

[vacuum]

In regards to vacuum's post, I should again quote Von Mises:

According to the doctrines of universalism, conceptual realism, holism, collectivism, and some representatives of Gestaltpsychologie, society is an entity living its own life, independent of and separate from the lives of the various individuals, acting on its own behalf and aiming at its own ends which are different from the ends sought by the individuals. Then, of course, an antagonism between the aims of society and those of its members can emerge. In order to safeguard the flowering and further development of society it becomes necessary to master the selfishness of the individuals and to compel them to sacrifice their egoistic designs to the benefit of society. At this point all these holistic doctrines are bound to abandon the secular methods of human science and logical reasoning and to shift to theological or metaphysical professions of faith. They must assume that Providence, through its prophets, apostles, and charismatic leaders, forces men who are constitutionally wicked, i.e., prone to pursue their own ends, to walk in the ways of righteousness which the Lord or Weltgeist or history wants them to walk.


In order to really discuss this we'd have to have the proper context. If we don't agree on what man is, what his role is in the universe, and certain laws on how the universe works, then we wouldn't even be discussing the same thing.

Furthermore, if we disagree on the methods used to determine the truth, and on the nature of truth itself, then we couldn't even discuss the above perquisites.

I read chapter 8 that the quote comes from when you first quoted it in the other thread, and I found it to be interesting and useful. But I don't think it's contradicting what I'm saying.

[Mouse]

Prerequisites, my friend. Let us not disagree on terms when arguing obsequious ideas with assholes.

[PatColo]

87 mins, guest doesn't come on until 17:00. VG!

Sunday, May 12, 2013 What's Ailing America with Dr Rebecca Carley 2013.05.12 (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2013/05/whats-ailing-america-with-dr-rebecca_12.html)

http://api.ning.com/files/BvKmtVMaeBbL74GcZzVTM-EKmQ7AkZN*YhGTNLdlZuqYNhSRhqdIp1d53PXsLByny1kgk5RZ GGXyKGCXc8MBP2WmEWiqADlu/CARLEY.png (http://api.ning.com/files/BvKmtVMaeBbL74GcZzVTM-EKmQ7AkZN*YhGTNLdlZuqYNhSRhqdIp1d53PXsLByny1kgk5RZ GGXyKGCXc8MBP2WmEWiqADlu/CARLEY.png)
THE CAFR FINANCIAL SWINDLE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE

Guest: Jerry Day (http://jerryday.com/)


RBN (http://republicbroadcasting.org/)
Dr. Carley' Site (http://www.drcarley.com/)

32k CF Download (http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/83k4h8ng89/what_s_ailing_america_with_dr_rebecca_carley_2013. 05.12.mp3)

[dys]

87 mins, guest doesn't come on until 17:00. VG!

Sunday, May 12, 2013 What's Ailing America with Dr Rebecca Carley 2013.05.12 (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2013/05/whats-ailing-america-with-dr-rebecca_12.html)

http://api.ning.com/files/BvKmtVMaeBbL74GcZzVTM-EKmQ7AkZN*YhGTNLdlZuqYNhSRhqdIp1d53PXsLByny1kgk5RZ GGXyKGCXc8MBP2WmEWiqADlu/CARLEY.png (http://api.ning.com/files/BvKmtVMaeBbL74GcZzVTM-EKmQ7AkZN*YhGTNLdlZuqYNhSRhqdIp1d53PXsLByny1kgk5RZ GGXyKGCXc8MBP2WmEWiqADlu/CARLEY.png)
THE CAFR FINANCIAL SWINDLE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE

Guest: Jerry Day (http://jerryday.com/)


RBN (http://republicbroadcasting.org/)
Dr. Carley' Site (http://www.drcarley.com/)

32k CF Download (http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/83k4h8ng89/what_s_ailing_america_with_dr_rebecca_carley_2013. 05.12.mp3)

Can't get the link to work.

dys

[PatColo]

the "Download" link? should work. points to:
http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/83k4h8ng89/what_s_ailing_america_with_dr_rebecca_carley_2013. 05.12.mp3

also at What's Ailing America with Dr Rebecca Carley 2013.05.12 (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2013/05/whats-ailing-america-with-dr-rebecca_12.html) there's a "Listen" player, but I believe it pulls from that same url ^.

[dys]

bump