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beefsteak
14th March 2011, 09:15 AM
I won't be doing any harvesting?

You're not my CREW CHIEF, and I'm not on YOUR crew, pal. Capiche'?

7th trump
14th March 2011, 09:17 AM
Oh, I've been "talkin' to the boss about you" already, Spectrism...who do you think told me to stand up to you and tell you to shut the hell up?

You're so busy bashing, you can't hear His Still Small Voice.

Go back to studying how to harvest over-ripe wheat. You got a several things to do before you're even going to be let on the combine crew!!!



Small voice???
Just what do you think trumpets sound like?

mick silver
14th March 2011, 09:18 AM
stop pissing in my yard ....

beefsteak
14th March 2011, 09:19 AM
Spectrism,

I just deleted WITHOUT READING your private message.

Be a man, and say whatever you've got to say, out here,
in the open,
in front of all the "witnesses"...

I can take whatever you dish out. Just quit hitting me in the head with your rav fav version of the Bible, so I can actually hear you.

Capiche'?

7th trump
14th March 2011, 09:20 AM
I won't be doing any harvesting?

You're not my CREW CHIEF, and I'm not on YOUR crew, pal. Capiche'?

You dont really read the Bible do you?
The angels do the harvesting, not you nor me, but the angels.

beefsteak
14th March 2011, 09:21 AM
And I suppose you think the Good Shepherd was Charlton Hesston, right?

Like I said...it's YOUR version of the dented Book.

oldmansmith
14th March 2011, 09:22 AM
Spectrism,

I just deleted WITHOUT READING your private message.

Be a man, and say whatever you've got to say, out here,
in the open,
in front of all the "witnesses"...

I can take whatever you dish out. Just quit hitting me in the head with your rav fav version of the Bible, so I can actually hear you.

Capiche'?




Beef, "Blessed be the Peacemakers."

I generally agree with what you are saying, but I have met Spectrism in person and he is a stand-up guy. Can't we all just get along?

7th trump
14th March 2011, 09:24 AM
And I suppose you think the Good Shepherd was Charlton Hesston, right?

Like I said...it's YOUR version of the dented Book.



Its no wonder the world is going to whore after the fake messiah and when that 7th trumpet is sounded they realise what they did and wish for the mountains to cover them from their shame.

DMac
14th March 2011, 09:25 AM
Get back on track gentlemen.

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/members/vertigo+paris/albums/misc+pics-36/thread-derail-1953.jpg

beefsteak
14th March 2011, 09:25 AM
I'd like to get along...but....

It's hard to help people hear the sound of God's Loving Voice, when they have some loud mouth on top of the debris heap shouting hell-fire and brimstone messages at them, when all they want is some help.

See the problem?

Glad he's a stand up guy in your books. Now, he needs to be a "SHUT UP" guy!

THEN we'll get along just fine...and he can rest his voice and straighten out his dented Bible, while I dig for those needing my help.

Deal?

mick silver
14th March 2011, 09:26 AM
i had a vision and i see a this will not end well

Awoke
14th March 2011, 09:28 AM
Beefsteak, your posts are far from "Christian", so if I were you I would stop with the baloney.

You're being overly agressive and abrasive.

chad
14th March 2011, 09:29 AM
i had a vision and i see a this will not end well


it'll end just like all of the rest of them. still waiting for the sheppards book church guy youtube videos to be posted and general name calling to ensue. :whip

beefsteak
14th March 2011, 09:29 AM
Dave this IS on track!!!

WE have the Western Coast on alert, with 750rads coming within 5-9 days.

And we have bible thumpers in our way of getting people ready, and getting supplies.

No one ever told they were going to hell shortly and permanently ever bought a case of distilled water, nor a case of beans and rice.

There are worker bees on the West Coast. And worker bees in the rest of the nation with family on the west coast. Do you not think I'm trying to help the west coast best i can. I don't want my Daughter and her family to hear this shrieking Spectrisms and G2Rads and 7thTrumps, and AWOKES while I'm trying to get her out of there. It take away her hope and faith in her old man, who's been relying upon the mercies of God and working my butt off to be "God in the Flesh to her" and her young ones.

It's about as RELEVANT to this thread as it gets. FAMILY!

Spectrism
14th March 2011, 09:29 AM
Spectrism,

I just deleted WITHOUT READING your private message.

Be a man, and say whatever you've got to say, out here,
in the open,
in front of all the "witnesses"...

I can take whatever you dish out. Just quit hitting me in the head with your rav fav version of the Bible, so I can actually hear you.

Capiche'?



OK... you confirmed for me just what I needed to know. I said something very simple for a fellow believer to understand, and you refused to even see it. In my message, I asked you why you did not send me a message from GOD in the method that HE said to use with fellow believers. Either you are not a believer, or you think I am not.

Your comment about NOT using bible verses confuses me. If you are getting messages from God and you hate the words of the bible, just what is your god's name?

We are in some very severe times with events that will make men fall over dead from fear. GSUS is a bootcamp for SHTF scenarios. Those here are working hard in preparation for what is to come. Even unbelievers can sense that something horrible is coming. All will be subject to deception... ALL of us. What we learn and practice in this bootcamp will cost sweat now, but hopefully reduce blood loss later. My intent is not to beat anyone up with the message. I just don't know how many people "get it" or who might visit this site to read it for the first time.

Kali
14th March 2011, 09:30 AM
i had a vision and i see a this will not end well


This thread?

nunaem
14th March 2011, 09:34 AM
In Tokyo, Shortages And Fear Now Abound (http://blogs.forbes.com/neilweinberg/2011/03/14/in-tokyo-shortages-and-fear-now-abound/)

"At the electronics store, dry batteries and portable stoves are sold out. Things like water, milk, bread, rice and even toilet paper have completely disappeared from supermarkets in my neighborhood. Some restaurants were closed because they’ve got nothing to serve. I saw a line of cars in front of a gas station that stretched over one kilometer."

G2Rad
14th March 2011, 09:35 AM
if it melts, here is the junk that will linger:

feasion products:
Krypton-85 ........ Beta/Gamma ........ 10 years
Strontium-90 ........ Beta ........ 28 years
Iodine-131 ........ Beta/Gamma ........ 8 days ........ bright & powerful but fades away
Cesium-137 ........ Beta/Gamma ........ 30 years ........ stays for long
Carbon-14 ........ Beta ........ 5770 years

activation products
Zinc-65 ........ Beta/Gamma ........ 245 days
Cobalt-60 ........ Beta/Gamma ........ 5 years ........ stays for long
Iron-59 ........ Beta/Gamma ........ 45 days
Tritium
(Hydrogen-3) ........ Beta ........ 12 years


nitrogen-16. a very short half-life (seven seconds). emits an extremely powerful gamma ray.
N-16 is formes when an oxygen-16 absorbs a neutron and decays
.... fades away

G2Rad
14th March 2011, 09:39 AM
Current Permissible Dose Limits (members of the public) according to 10 CFR Part 20

Less than 2 millirems in any one hour from external radiation sources in any unrestricted area

Less than 100 millirems in a calendar year from both external and internal sources of radiation in unrestricted and controlled areas

those are pretty low numbers.

accute dose is 100 rems
lethal dose is 500 rems

G2Rad
14th March 2011, 09:41 AM
Occupational Limit: 5 rems per year
Minor: 0.5 rem / year

Awoke
14th March 2011, 09:41 AM
I don't want my Daughter and her family to hear this shrieking Spectrisms and G2Rads and 7thTrumps, and AWOKES while I'm trying to get her out of there. It take away her hope and faith in her old man, who's been relying upon the mercies of God and working my butt off to be "God in the Flesh to her" and her young ones.



Your daughter should be so lucky that I could be in charge of her protection if TSHTF.



Anyways, I'm just saying that you're not acting like a Christian. You're on the attack. You don't like brimstone posts? Don't read them.

Also, AFAIC, you insult God when you refer to scripture as someones version of "a dented book", but you can take that up with him on your own time.

beefsteak
14th March 2011, 09:42 AM
Beefsteak, your posts are far from "Christian", so if I were you I would stop with the baloney.

You're being overly agressive and abrasive.


This coming from a Bible Thumper with no FAMILY SKIN in the game?

The Christ of the NEW TESTAMENT, got mad at the Money Changers in the Temple for selling blemished doves to desparate people who travelled a long way and needed a dove for the atonement required ritual.

They were loud too, and sold flawed sheep and doves.

You want me less angry because......?

Awoke
14th March 2011, 09:43 AM
Carbon-14

This is the bad stuff.

beefsteak
14th March 2011, 09:45 AM
Carbon-14

This is the bad stuff.


Oh, is that what your Bible says? Carbon-14 is the bad stuff?

:ROFL:

Awoke
14th March 2011, 09:46 AM
Beefsteak, your posts are far from "Christian", so if I were you I would stop with the baloney.

You're being overly agressive and abrasive.


This coming from a Bible Thumper with no FAMILY SKIN in the game?

You're a coward.


Not sure what you mean.
I have a wife and two daughters, a years worth of food, 6 months worth of water, thousands and thousands of rounds of ammo for multiple firearms, a silver stash, and BOL and all my girls can handle firearms.

Not sure what you mean by "no family skin" and "coward". Please elaborate or retract.

chad
14th March 2011, 09:47 AM
Carbon-14

This is the bad stuff.


Oh, is that what your Bible says? Carbon-14 is the bad stuff?

:ROFL:


it stays around for 5,700 years, so i'd say awoke might be on to something.

Awoke
14th March 2011, 09:48 AM
Carbon-14

This is the bad stuff.


Oh, is that what your Bible says? Carbon-14 is the bad stuff?

:ROFL:


No, genius. I work in the Nuclear industry as well.

We are educated specifically regarding carbon 14. It was an unknown issue in CANDU reactors until fairly recently.

oldmansmith
14th March 2011, 09:50 AM
The MSM seems to be upping the ante; this from Yahoo:



Meltdown threat rises at Japanese nuclear plant (AP)

AP - Water levels dropped precipitously Monday inside a stricken Japanese nuclear reactor, twice leaving the uranium fuel rods completely exposed and raising the threat of a meltdown, hours after a hydrogen explosion tore through the building housing a different reactor.

solid
14th March 2011, 09:53 AM
Instead of arguing over the internet, I think this is a good time to call and tell loved ones you care about them. We should all do this anyway, regardless. Make amends with old friends, catch up with them, etc. If you harbor a grudge against someone, for some reason, consider fixing that too. Review your preps, and remain calm.

Speaking of grudges, Book, I don't hold any against you. I know we've gone back and forth a few times here on this board, you know how to push my buttons, etc. But, even though we disagree on some things, I agree with you on other things, and find myself respecting a lot of your opinions. If anything, you've taught me to have thick internet skin. Water under the bridge...(I still want that 2000th smite though) ;D

G2Rad
14th March 2011, 09:54 AM
Most sensitive organs: Blood forming organs
Very sensitive organs: Gastrointestinal system
Least sensitive organs: Brain and muscles.

200+ rad ..... Cataracts (a clouding of the lens of the eye)

long-term effects:
Leukemia, Lung cancer, Bone cancer, Thyroid cancer, Breast cancer, Skin cancer

Spectrism
14th March 2011, 10:00 AM
Beefsteak, your posts are far from "Christian", so if I were you I would stop with the baloney.

You're being overly agressive and abrasive.


This coming from a Bible Thumper with no FAMILY SKIN in the game?

The Christ of the NEW TESTAMENT, got mad at the Money Changers in the Temple for selling blemished doves to desparate people who travelled a long way and needed a dove for the atonement required ritual.

They were loud too, and sold flawed sheep and doves.
You want me less angry because......?



Hmmm... is this how you read the bible?

First, the Messiah is recorded in what we call the New Testament, but he walked and did these things in the old testament days. The money changers were used to provide "clean" temple money instead of unclean Roman currency. They were middleman cheaters, robbing the people. THAT got the Messiah mad.

Do you think the Messiah wanted them to be sacrificing animals, knowing that HE was the unblemished Lamb of God for ALL sin? No! He was angry that the (old testament) temple of God was turned into a place of robbery and coercion with people (victims) following laws they did not understand.

Now the temple of God is the heart of men who are indwellt by the Spirit of God. He still cracks the whip on evil trading being done in our hearts. He guards us jealously. I have seen His hand work things in my life.

JohnQPublic
14th March 2011, 10:02 AM
Japan Does Not Face Another Chernobyl (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576198421680697248.html)

The containment structures appear to be working, and the latest reactor designs aren't vulnerable to the coolant problem at issue here.

By WILLIAM TUCKER
Even while thousands of people are reported dead or missing, whole neighborhoods lie in ruins, and gas and oil fires rage out of control, press coverage of the Japanese earthquake has quickly settled on the troubles at two nuclear reactors as the center of the catastrophe.

Rep. Ed Markey (D., Mass.), a longtime opponent of nuclear power, has warned of "another Chernobyl" and predicted "the same thing could happen here." In response, he has called for an immediate suspension of licensing procedures for the Westinghouse AP1000, a "Generation III" reactor that has been laboring through design review at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for seven years.

Before we respond with such panic, though, it would be useful to review exactly what is happening in Japan and what we have to fear from it.

The core of a nuclear reactor operates at about 550 degrees Fahrenheit, well below the temperature of a coal furnace and only slightly hotter than a kitchen oven. If anything unusual occurs, the control rods immediately drop, shutting off the nuclear reaction. You can't have a "runaway reactor," nor can a reactor explode like a nuclear bomb. A commercial reactor is to a bomb what Vaseline is to napalm. Although both are made from petroleum jelly, only one of them has potentially explosive material.

Once the reactor has shut down, there remains "decay heat" from traces of other radioactive isotopes. This can take more than a week to cool down, and the rods must be continually bathed in cooling waters to keep them from overheating.

On all Generation II reactors—the ones currently in operation—the cooling water is circulated by electric pumps. The new Generation III reactors such as the AP1000 have a simplified "passive" cooling system where the water circulates by natural convection with no pumping required.

If the pumps are knocked out in a Generation II reactor—as they were at Fukushima Daiichi by the tsunami—the water in the cooling system can overheat and evaporate. The resulting steam increases internal pressure that must be vented. There was a small release of radioactive steam at Three Mile Island in 1979, and there have also been a few releases at Fukushima Daiichi. These produce radiation at about the level of one dental X-ray in the immediate vicinity and quickly dissipate.

View Full Image

Getty Images
If the coolant continues to evaporate, the water level can fall below the level of the fuel rods, exposing them. This will cause a meltdown, meaning the fuel rods melt to the bottom of the steel pressure vessel.

Early speculation was that in a case like this the fuel might continue melting right through the steel and perhaps even through the concrete containment structure—the so-called China syndrome, where the fuel would melt all the way to China. But Three Mile Island proved this doesn't happen. The melted fuel rods simply aren't hot enough to melt steel or concrete.

The decay heat must still be absorbed, however, and as a last-ditch effort the emergency core cooling system can be activated to flood the entire containment structure with water. This will do considerable damage to the reactor but will prevent any further steam releases. The Japanese have now reportedly done this using seawater in at least two of the troubled reactors. These reactors will never be restarted.

None of this amounts to "another Chernobyl." The Chernobyl reactor had two crucial design flaws. First, it used graphite (carbon) instead of water to "moderate" the neutrons, which makes possible the nuclear reaction. The graphite caught fire in April 1986 and burned for four days. Water does not catch fire.

Second, Chernobyl had no containment structure. When the graphite caught fire, it spouted a plume of radioactive smoke that spread across the globe. A containment structure would have both smothered the fire and contained the radioactivity.

If a meltdown does occur in Japan, it will be a disaster for the Tokyo Electric Power Company but not for the general public. Whatever steam releases occur will have a negligible impact. Researchers have spent 30 years trying to find health effects from the steam releases at Three Mile Island and have come up with nothing. With all the death, devastation and disease now threatening tens of thousands in Japan, it is trivializing and almost obscene to spend so much time worrying about damage to a nuclear reactor.

What the Japanese earthquake has proved is that even the oldest containment structures can withstand the impact of one of the largest earthquakes in recorded history. The problem has been with the electrical pumps required to operate the cooling system. It would be tragic if the result of the Japanese accident were to prevent development of Generation III reactors, which eliminate this design flaw.

Mr. Tucker is author of "Terrestrial Energy: How Nuclear Power Will Lead the Green Revolution and End America's Energy Odyssey" (Bartleby Press, 2010).

Awoke
14th March 2011, 10:05 AM
Got this in an email




The nuclear fuel rods inside all three of the most troubled nuclear reactors at the quake-ravaged Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant appear to be melting, say Japanese officials.
"Although we cannot directly check it, it's highly likely happening," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said Monday.
The announcement comes following word that the fuel rods in the Unit 2 reactor were once again fully exposed on Monday.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) says the exposure happened because a steam vent wouldn't open, causing a sudden drop of water, the Associated Press reports. The Kyodo News agency reports that TEPCO told them the rods were exposed because a fire pump to pour seawater into the reactor to cool it down ran out of fuel.

The crisis in the Unit 2 reactor came after an explosion at Unit 3, another reactor at the same plant on Monday.
That followed a similar explosion on Saturday morning in Unit 1, which also nearly destroyed the building surrounding that reactor. Four people were injured in that blast.

Unit 2 and two other reactors at the plant have been overheating for two days now and authorities have been racing to prevent meltdowns. Plant workers have been pumping sea water into the reactors in hopes of cooling them down.

Normally, the series of metal rods containing pellets of uranium fuel inside a nuclear reactor's core are kept cool with water that is pumped between the pipes. The resulting steam then drives an electricity-generating turbine, and the heat is then removed by coolant pumps.

But those pumps at the Fukushima plant, as well as back-up power supply, were knocked out by Friday's earthquake and tsunami.

Though the quake shut the reactors off, there is still enough heat within the reactors to melt the metal sheaths surrounding the uranium fuel.

So emergency workers have been trying to cool the cores by pumping seawater inside -- a method that will make the reactors forever unusable.

Government says total meltdown is unlikely

While a partial meltdown may be occurring inside the reactor itself, Edano has said it's unlikely a total meltdown will occur.

So long as thick protective steel walls around the reactor cores remain intact, a major escape of radioactive clouds should be avoided, he and other experts say.

Mark Hibbs, a senior associate at the nuclear policy program for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, says the danger of a total meltdown is decreasing with each day.

"We're now into the fourth day. Whatever is happening in that core is taking a long time to unfold," Hibbs told AP. "They've succeeded in prolonging the timeline of the accident sequence."

Many agree there is little risk of a Chernobyl-type disaster in Japan, because the Japanese reactors have a containment shell that the doomed Russian reactor did not.

"The likelihood there will be a huge fire like at Chernobyl or a major environmental release like at Chernobyl, I think that's basically impossible," James F. Stubbins, a nuclear energy professor at the University of Illinois.

If there is a partial or total meltdown, it could become impossible to remove the fuel. That's what happened in 1979 at Three Mile Island, which remains sealed off to this day.

Japanese officials have evacuated 180,000 people from the around the Dai-ishi plant in recent days. It is believed that as many as 160 people may have been exposed to radiation.

At sea, an American aircraft carrier and several other U.S. fleet ships moved further away from Dai-ishi after it appeared that relief workers had been exposed to low levels of radiation after flying out of Japan.



So which is it??

If the reactor core is encased in a thick metal shell, how could the fuel rods be exposed by a temporary low water level?

This is conflicting info.

DMac
14th March 2011, 10:07 AM
Fukushima No. 2 reactor's fuel rods fully exposed, melting feared (http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/77870.html)

New Escalation in Japan ! Meltdown for 3 reactors is happening according to Japanese Government ! (http://poleshift.ning.com/profiles/blogs/new-escalation-in-japan)

mick silver
14th March 2011, 10:07 AM
a full meltdown is under way . that what they are saying on fox . nuclear rods exposed an over heating

Spectrism
14th March 2011, 10:07 AM
I wish I could believe that...and it would be true JQP. But this does not ring true-


None of this amounts to "another Chernobyl." The Chernobyl reactor had two crucial design flaws. First, it used graphite (carbon) instead of water to "moderate" the neutrons, which makes possible the nuclear reaction. The graphite caught fire in April 1986 and burned for four days. Water does not catch fire.

Second, Chernobyl had no containment structure. When the graphite caught fire, it spouted a plume of radioactive smoke that spread across the globe. A containment structure would have both smothered the fire and contained the radioactivity.


Water boils off and they have been releasing radioactive steam. Now there are many reports that melt-downs are happening. No water will cool these. Then the containment is breached. I am not sure what will happen next, but the initial reports never seem to be right.

DMac
14th March 2011, 10:08 AM
The articles that there is no meltdown to be feared remind me of the posts claiming Deepwater Horizon is not going to destroy the gulf.

mick silver
14th March 2011, 10:10 AM
the number of dead went to 10.000

G2Rad
14th March 2011, 10:17 AM
WASHINGTON (AFP) - Japan has formally asked the United States for help with controlling its damaged nuclear power plants after last week's earthquake and tsunami, the US nuclear regulatory commission said Monday.

VIENNA (AFP) - Japan has officially asked the UN atomic watchdog to send a team of experts to help in the current nuclear crisis, International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) chief Yukiya Amano said Monday.

The Fukushima nuclear accident is "worse than Three Mile Island but not as great as Chernobyl," Andre-Claude Lacoste, head of France's safety agency, said on Monday

http://www.afp.com/afpcom/en/

Spectrism
14th March 2011, 10:23 AM
The articles that there is no meltdown to be feared remind me of the posts claiming Deepwater Horizon is not going to destroy the gulf.


Yeah...me too. But this time they can't buy up all the college professors, all the deepwater ROVs and all the industry-associated workers.... and hide the problem a mile under water.


Hmmmm.... maybe BP can start spraying Corexit over Japan?

Kali
14th March 2011, 10:24 AM
This is from a meeting just a little while ago. Listen starting at around 52:00 for a couple minutes then again at 58:30 (it gets translated).

Tell me that shit didn't just get real.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13320454

JohnQPublic
14th March 2011, 10:26 AM
I wish I could believe that...and it would be true JQP. But this does not ring true-


None of this amounts to "another Chernobyl." The Chernobyl reactor had two crucial design flaws. First, it used graphite (carbon) instead of water to "moderate" the neutrons, which makes possible the nuclear reaction. The graphite caught fire in April 1986 and burned for four days. Water does not catch fire.

Second, Chernobyl had no containment structure. When the graphite caught fire, it spouted a plume of radioactive smoke that spread across the globe. A containment structure would have both smothered the fire and contained the radioactivity.


Water boils off and they have been releasing radioactive steam. Now there are many reports that melt-downs are happening. No water will cool these. Then the containment is breached. I am not sure what will happen next, but the initial reports never seem to be right.


I think what I posted is an optimistic view, but closer to reality than some of the reporting. Clearly they have lost control of the reactor and the fuel rods are melting. Now in theory, the reactor vessel is designed to physically contain the fuel rods even in the event that there is no cooling available. Since they are trying to cool the reactor by pumping sea water, they are creating steam, which is overpressuring the containment structure(s) (I am not sure if there are 1 or 2 metal containment structures). In order to control the pressure, they are venting the steam. This is releasing raidio-isotopes into the atmosphere, no question, but this is not the same as the situation in Chernobyl where an active, open fire spewed out radioactive materials. This is still more like Three Mile Island, where some steam was released.

I am still unclear about some issues. They talk about water moderating the reaction. It can if they can continue to pump water loaded with boric acid, or other compounds (like cadnium), but I do not believe this is the main moderation method. I believe they use control rods to do the main moderation. If these control rods were stuck, and could not be lowered, then they melted, also, this is bad. they eventually need to fill the core with some material capable of moderating the reaction for a long, long time, and possibly continue to pump water through the system for this time.

The article implies that only residual radiation exists. This implies that the main reaction has been stopped. If this is true, then things are much better than reported. If in fact the main control rods are not in place, and the entire pile is freely reacting, then the situation is much worse than the posted article implies. Stiill, in theory the containment was supposed to be designed for the worst case (pile melting, no cooling). Adding water actually complicates the matter, but they are probably doing it to try and regain some control over the reactor.

Kali
14th March 2011, 10:26 AM
The Kyodo News agency reports that TEPCO told them the rods were exposed because a fire pump to pour seawater into the reactor to cool it down ran out of fuel.


This is talked about in the video I posted. Fuel is running out. Rods are exposed.

In fact, he says "we don't know because no one can get in there to look".

JohnQPublic
14th March 2011, 10:28 AM
The articles that there is no meltdown to be feared remind me of the posts claiming Deepwater Horizon is not going to destroy the gulf.


I'm not sure what you are referring to, but the article I posted acknowledges that there is a melt down. Please read my reply to Spectrism.

JohnQPublic
14th March 2011, 10:33 AM
This is from a meeting just a little while ago. Listen starting at around 52:00 for a couple minutes then again at 58:30 (it gets translated).

Tell me that shit didn't just get real.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13320454



Hey, Kali, can you summarize what was said, and who said it? I really can't stream here.

Thanks.

DMac
14th March 2011, 10:35 AM
The articles that there is no meltdown to be feared remind me of the posts claiming Deepwater Horizon is not going to destroy the gulf.


I'm not sure what you are referring to, but the article I posted acknowledges that there is a melt down. Please read my reply to Spectrism.


My comment was a general observation not directed at anyone in particular.

mick silver
14th March 2011, 10:36 AM
the japan is asking for help from around the world to help them get control of there nuclear plants

undgrd
14th March 2011, 10:43 AM
If read everything correct...why would they keep using water? Seems the steel and concrete base is enough to stop the fully melted rods from going any further. Bubbling fuel rods seems to be less dangerous than a repeating cycle of radioactive clouds of steam.

Did I miss something where bubbling melted fuel rods are more damaging than radioactive clouds of steam?

Cobalt
14th March 2011, 10:44 AM
Sailors on the USS Ronald Reagan were exposed to nearly a month's worth of radiation in an hour.

The ship was 100 miles down wind of the Fukushima Daiichi plant where a blast on Saturday led to a release of radioactive material.

7th Fleet Commander Jeff Davis told ABC News: "The maximum potential radiation dose received by any ship's force personnel aboard the ship when it passed through the area wasless than the radiation exposure received from about one month of exposure to natural background radiation from sources such as rocks, soil, and the sun."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8379969/Japan-earthquake-US-aircraft-carrier-sails-into-radioactive-cloud.html

undgrd
14th March 2011, 10:48 AM
Sailors on the USS Ronald Reagan were exposed to nearly a month's worth of radiation in an hour.

The ship was 100 miles down wind of the Fukushima Daiichi plant where a blast on Saturday led to a release of radioactive material.

7th Fleet Commander Jeff Davis told ABC News: "The maximum potential radiation dose received by any ship's force personnel aboard the ship when it passed through the area wasless than the radiation exposure received from about one month of exposure to natural background radiation from sources such as rocks, soil, and the sun."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8379969/Japan-earthquake-US-aircraft-carrier-sails-into-radioactive-cloud.html


So is it safe to assume anyone continuously in the path of this radioactive material will be exposed to 2 years worth of radioactive material in 1 day?

Spectrism
14th March 2011, 10:50 AM
If read everything correct...why would they keep using water? Seems the steel and concrete base is enough to stop the fully melted rods from going any further. Bubbling fuel rods seems to be less dangerous than a repeating cycle of radioactive clouds of steam.

Did I miss something where bubbling melted fuel rods are more damaging than radioactive clouds of steam?


Exactly. It just does not add up.

Something is not making sense here.

mick silver
14th March 2011, 10:52 AM
i dont know shit but why can they not let the fuel rod burn out ? is there not away to do this . like i said i know NOTHING about how to control this . just trying to learn from the few here that does . there no way i guess you can control a burn off right

Kali
14th March 2011, 10:53 AM
This is from a meeting just a little while ago. Listen starting at around 52:00 for a couple minutes then again at 58:30 (it gets translated).

Tell me that shit didn't just get real.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13320454



Hey, Kali, can you summarize what was said, and who said it? I really can't stream here.

Thanks.


While I was posting this news came out about basically what he said and was posted here.

Rods are exposed, running out of fuel.

If rods are exposed for a long period it will be severe.

The thing that stuck out the most was that he said "we don't know because no one can get in there to look".

I'm still listening...

G2Rad
14th March 2011, 10:56 AM
So is it safe to assume anyone continuously in the path of this radioactive material will be exposed to 2 years worth of radioactive material in 1 day?


they encountered 7.2 mrem/hour

Current Permissible Dose Limits for members of the public according to 10 CFR Part 20 is less than 2 millirems in any one hour from external radiation sources in any unrestricted area

so, it is 4 times above the 10 CFR Part 20 limit

JohnQPublic
14th March 2011, 10:56 AM
Sailors on the USS Ronald Reagan were exposed to nearly a month's worth of radiation in an hour.

The ship was 100 miles down wind of the Fukushima Daiichi plant where a blast on Saturday led to a release of radioactive material.

7th Fleet Commander Jeff Davis told ABC News: "The maximum potential radiation dose received by any ship's force personnel aboard the ship when it passed through the area wasless than the radiation exposure received from about one month of exposure to natural background radiation from sources such as rocks, soil, and the sun."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8379969/Japan-earthquake-US-aircraft-carrier-sails-into-radioactive-cloud.html


So is it safe to assume anyone continuously in the path of this radioactive material will be exposed to 2 years worth of radioactive material in 1 day?


If you are 100 miles away. Across the Pacific (at this level), it would be much less.

At this point the actual radiation lvel is not a big deal. The issue is getting particles of Cesium 137 lodged in your lung or thyroid.

This is a really bad situation, especially for the Japanese.

Spectrism
14th March 2011, 10:57 AM
i dont know shit but why can they not let the fuel rod burn out ? is there not away to do this . like i said i know NOTHING about how to control this . just trying to learn from the few here that does


Well... I don't know much more than shit.... but these rods are loaded with energy. As they decay, they release tons of energy. Think of these as many nuclear bombs releasing their energy slowly.

Also consider the heat inside the earth. I think that a part of that heat -at least at the very core, is by radioactive decay.

I think this could be hot for hundreds of years.

Kali
14th March 2011, 10:58 AM
This song just came to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQRIOKvR2WM

Antonio
14th March 2011, 10:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHKQfeMiRUc&feature=player_embedded
Cover-up Is Going On In Tokyo & Washington

Spectrism
14th March 2011, 11:02 AM
Here is another concern. When one of these leaks radiation locally, all the other reactors nearby will have to be abandoned. One catastrophic break and all go up. This is a very dire situation.... and in even the best of cases, the people of Japan will be devastated.


I recall Antonio saying in another thread that there is no SHTF scenario that even compares to a Chernobyl/ nuclear disaster. Who would have thought that just a few weeks later we are seeing one?

cortez
14th March 2011, 11:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx6IS0vrZOk&feature=player_embedded

Awoke
14th March 2011, 11:06 AM
If read everything correct...why would they keep using water? Seems the steel and concrete base is enough to stop the fully melted rods from going any further. Bubbling fuel rods seems to be less dangerous than a repeating cycle of radioactive clouds of steam.

Did I miss something where bubbling melted fuel rods are more damaging than radioactive clouds of steam?


Exactly. It just does not add up.

Something is not making sense here.



It's because they have to keep the fuel cool to avoid having the rods burn out. When nuclear fuel is incased it is contained. You have radiation that radiates from the calandria, but if the rods over heat and melt, then you are looking at a whole new ball game.

That is when you will have radioactive gases and all sorts of goodies floating around. Highly reactive gases that can blow around on the wind.

The radioactive steam is the lesser of two evils when considering the implications of fractured fuel pellets offgassing.

Horn
14th March 2011, 11:09 AM
It's not like any remnants picked up in the jetstream won't be scattered across the four corners.

http://squall.sfsu.edu/gif/jetstream_norhem_00.gif

Antonio
14th March 2011, 11:12 AM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23676


Meltdown is underway. Japan's Industrial Nuclear Safety Agency reported that the radioactive isotopes cesium and iodine were detected by a monitoring station in the Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant. The presence of these substances in air samples is a sure indicator that an uncontrolled chain reaction has started. Overheated uranium rods have eaten through their protective metal casings and have started nuclear fission. The regulatory agency's announcement overturns the earlier claim of plant operator TEPCO that all uranium rods were intact.

.

The National Institute of Radiological Science, in Chiba outside Tokyo, has flown a team of doctors and nurses by helicopter to a health center 5 km from the Fukushima plant to monitor nuclear exposure in workers, emergency crew and local residents.

Nuclear workers, who this morning restarted the pumping of cold water into the reactor, are being hampered by aftershocks of larger than Richter 6. Plant operator TEPCO ordered the release of steam from the overheated reactor this morning because internal pressure is twice higher than the allowable limits of the original facility design. Plant officials say that the steam is being filtered of radioactive particle. Outside the plant, however, the monitoring station detected outdoor radiation levels 8 times higher than normal, indicating either leakage or filter malfunction.

Three of the six reactors of the TEPCO Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant, were operating at the time of the Tohoku quake. The failure of back-up generators caused significant rise in temperatures inside No.1 (46 MW output) and No.2 (784 MW) reactors.

The Japanese government overnight dispatched truck-mounted power generators to both plants in order to restart cooling pumps. On-site back-up batteries that run the control system were depleted of power within 8 hours of the blackout. Authorities are now locating robots to dispatch for remote control repairs to the reactors because the interior is unsafe for human employees.

.

Impact on North America:

The Pacific jetstream is currently flowing due east directly toward the United States. In the event of a major meltdown and continuous large-volume radioactive release, airborne particles will be carried across the ocean in bands that will cross over the southern halves of Oregon, Montana and Idaho, all of California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, the Dakotas, northern Nebraska and Iowa and ending in Wisconsin and Illinois, with possible further eastward drift depending on surface wind direction.

Most of the particles can be expected to travel high in the atmosphere, with fallout dependent on low pressure zones, rainfall and temperatures over the US. If a meltdown can be contained in Fukushima, a small amount of particles would be dispersed in the atmosphere with little immediate effect on human and animal health.

Another climate factor to be taken into account is the potential for an El Nino Variable bulging the jetstream further northward, causing fallout over western Canada and a larger number of American states.

Seasonal rainfall over Japan does not normally begin until mid-April and does not become significant until early June.

If very high radiation releases are detected at some point, a potential tactic to lessen contamination of North America is for the US, Canadian and Russian air forces to seed clouds over the northwest Pacific to create a low pressure front and precipitation to minimize particle mass reaching North America.

.

Emergency Special Report III

Ohoku Quake and Tsunami Monitor 2: "The Good News Guys"

Sunday 13 March 2011 (0800 hrs Tokyo Time)

Following a high-level meeting called by the lame-duck prime minister, Japanese agencies are no longer releasing independent reports without prior approval from the top. The censorship is being carried out following the imposition of the Article 15 Emergency Law. Official silencing of bad news is a polite way of reassuring the public.According to the chief Cabinet Secretary, reactor heat is being lowered and radiation levels are coming down. The Unit 1 reactor container is not cracked despite the explosion that destroyed its building.

The explosion did not erupt out of the reactor.

So what caused the explosion that blasted away the reinforced concrete roof and walls? Silence.

Yes, there's nothing to worry about if residents just stay indoors, turn off their air-cons and don't breathe deeply. Everyone, go back to sleep.

The radiation leak at Fukushima No.1 nuclear plant is now officially designated as a "4" on the international nuclear-events scale of 7. This is the same criticality rating at an earlier minor accident at Tokaimura plant in Ibaraki. Technically, there is no comparison. Tokaimura did not experience a partial meltdown.

Enough of the Good News

The mayor of Tsuruga City, home of the trouble-plagued Monju plutonium-breeder reactor in Fukui Prefecture, isn't buying Tokyo's weak explanation about the Fukushima 1 blast and demanded the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency to conduct an all-points investigation immediately.

A specialist medical team from the National Radiology Health Institute, flown by helicopter from Chiba to a field center 5 km from the No.1 Nuclear Plant, found radiation illness in 3 residents out of a sample group of 90. Overnight that number of civilian-nuclear "hibakusha" shot up to 19, but in other counts to 160. The evacuation zone has been further widened from 10 km to 20 km.

A third reactor, Unit 6, has lost its cooling system and is overheating along with Reactors 1 and 2.

Fukushima No.2 plant, further south, is ringed by a wall of silence as a quiet evacuation is being conducted.

Firefighters are pumping seawater into the three overheated Fukushima 1 reactors. The mandatory freshwater supply is missing, presumably due to tsunami contamination from surging ocean waves. An American nuclear expert has called this desperation measure the equivalent of a "Hail Mary pass"..

So, the Prime Minister should be hoping that Japan's tiny Christian community is feverishly praying. Because right now, Japan and much of the world are living on a prayer.

Players not prayers

USA: The White House sent in a team to consult withe US-friendly Naoto Kan government. Instead of dispatching in experts from the Department of Energy, Nuclear Safety Agency and Health Department, President Obamas sent representatives of USAID, which is cover for the CIA.

The presence of these paranoiac bumblers only confirms suspicions of a top-level cover up. Why would the Agency be worried about the disaster? There are security considerations, such as regional "enemies" Pyongyang, Beijing and Moscow taking advantage of the crisis. To the contrary, China and Russia have both offered carte blanche civilian aid.

Second, to coordinate a pro-American public campaign synchronized with the US relief effort from the nuclear carrier USS Ronald Reagan. Many Japanese might actually be alarmed by Navy ships offshore, reminding them of the firebombing campaign in the big war, and US helicopters rumbling overhead as if Sendai was Danang Vietnam 1968. The whole "aid" exercise smacks of a con job aimed at keeping US military bases in Okinawa and surreptitiously at a Japanese Self-Defense Force firing range at the foot of Mount Fuji.

Third, to ensure the safekeeping of Misawa Air Force Base in quake-hit Iwate Prefecture. Misawa, the hub of US electronic warfare and high-tech espionage in East Asia with its fleet of P-3 Orions and an ECHELON eavesdropping antennae.

PRC: In contrast to Washington's ulterior motives, China in an unprecedented move has sent in an emergency team into Japan. Unbeknownst to the world, China has world-leading expertise in extinguishing nuclear meltdowns and blocking radiation leaks at their uranium mines and military nuclear plants. This was discovered on a 2003 visit to a geological research center in the uranium-rich Altai mountain region of Xinjiang, where a scientist disclosed "off the record" China's development of mineral blends that block radiation "much more than 90 percent, nearly totally". When asked why the institute doesn't commercialize their formulas, he responded: "We've never thought about that." That's too bad because if one of China's exports was ever needed, it's their radiation blanket.

Russia: Moscow too, is offering unconditional aid, despite ongoing territorial conflict with Japan over four northern islands. The Russian Air Force, from bases in Kamchatka and the Kuriles, could play a key role in cloud-seeding to prevent radioactive particles from drifting over to the United States. Americans should learn how to act as team players in an international community, especially now their own children's lives will be at stake in the event of a total meltdown in Fukushima.

Canada: Meteorology is becoming evermore interesting, despite the "what me worry" attitudes of the global-warming skeptics. A freak of nature called El Nino Variable, if it occurs later this spring, could push the Pacific jet stream northward, meaning western Canada and more U.S. states could find themselves along a winding stream of radiation fallout from Japan.

Correction to Monitor 1: In our haste, we blurred over some important details on the use of potassium iodide tablets. These are taken to block radioactive iodine-131 from affecting the human thyroid gland, thus lowering the risk of cancer and other disorders.

Yoichi Shimatsu currently with Fourth Media (China) is former editor of the Japan Times Weekly, has covered the earthquakes in San Francisco and Kobe, participated in the rescue operation immediately after the Indian Ocean tsunami in 2004 and led the field research for an architectural report on structural design flaws that led to the tsunami death toll in Thailand.


Global Research Articles by Yoichi Shimatsu

undgrd
14th March 2011, 11:15 AM
If read everything correct...why would they keep using water? Seems the steel and concrete base is enough to stop the fully melted rods from going any further. Bubbling fuel rods seems to be less dangerous than a repeating cycle of radioactive clouds of steam.

Did I miss something where bubbling melted fuel rods are more damaging than radioactive clouds of steam?


Exactly. It just does not add up.

Something is not making sense here.



It's because they have to keep the fuel cool to avoid having the rods burn out. When nuclear fuel is incased it is contained. You have radiation that radiates from the calandria, but if the rods over heat and melt, then you are looking at a whole new ball game.

That is when you will have radioactive gases and all sorts of goodies floating around. Highly reactive gases that can blow around on the wind.

The radioactive steam is the lesser of two evils when considering the implications of fractured fuel pellets offgassing.


Got it now. Gases emitted by melted fuel rods are worse than steam released from unmelted fuel rods.
Thanks for the clarification.

Awoke
14th March 2011, 11:15 AM
So is it safe to assume anyone continuously in the path of this radioactive material will be exposed to 2 years worth of radioactive material in 1 day?


they encountered 7.2 mrem/hour

Current Permissible Dose Limits for members of the public according to 10 CFR Part 20 is less than 2 millirems in any one hour from external radiation sources in any unrestricted area

so, it is 4 times above the 10 CFR Part 20 limit



7.2 mrem is fuck all.

I personally have worked in areas with fields as high as 300+mrem per hour.
I'm not saying that it's OK for the public to exposed to 7.2 mrems per hour, but as far a gamma goes, that is a negligable dose if it's short term.

Awoke
14th March 2011, 11:32 AM
Got it now. Gases emitted by melted fuel rods are worse than steam released from unmelted fuel rods.
Thanks for the clarification.



Yes. You got it.

The thing that people don't really "get" about radiation is that we are splitting atoms. When you do that, you're not necessarily splitting them perfectly in half. Once you split the atom, you have created two new atoms, and they are usually unstable and want to balance out.

So they emit whatever particles they have a surplus of in order to balance out. (ie electron/Neutron, etc) This is the radioactive decay.

So when they split an atom, they can't forcast what new atoms they will have. There are untold new creations every second, on an atomic level. There are some reoccuring child particles like Carbon 14 that they see more often than others and they can list tham as expected bi-products, but there are new and unique child particles created all the time too, with their own unique lifespan and strengths, etc.

You really want to keep these child products contained inside the metal casing of the fuel rod. In fact, imo, it is paramount.

Antonio
14th March 2011, 11:39 AM
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-tokyo
live Tokyo Geiger.

PS. Russians are saying that in USSR we couldn`t build ANYTHING, not even an outhouse in a zone of such seismic activity.
What Japs have done is a monumental crime, not to mention the MOX fuel in them reactors...
http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/2011/03/japan-exploded-nuclear-plant-uses-mox.html

G2Rad
14th March 2011, 11:43 AM
three most knowledgeable in physics here are the same three most knowledgeable in the Bible too

go figure

lol

Awoke
14th March 2011, 11:45 AM
Hmm. I'm not familiar with MOX fuel...

Have to do some reading on that. Her Blog fails to provide any technicals.

vacuum
14th March 2011, 11:50 AM
So how much fuel does a reactor like this have active at any one time? Lets say you took all the fuel in one of these reactors and distributed it evenly over an area of, say, the the size of the state of Nevada. How much damage could these reactors do if the worst happened?

Antonio
14th March 2011, 11:51 AM
Hmm. I'm not familiar with MOX fuel...

Have to do some reading on that. Her Blog fails to provide any technicals.


IMHO it`s mixed uranium and plutonium oxides. Plutonium when released makes uranium seem like Vitamin C.

Antonio
14th March 2011, 11:52 AM
So how much fuel does a reactor like this have active at any one time? Lets say you took all the fuel in one of these reactors and distributed it evenly over an area of, say, the the size of the state of Nevada. How much damage could these reactors do if the worst happened?

An atom bomb has about 2-3 kilos of plutonium? A reactor has tons...

G2Rad
14th March 2011, 11:53 AM
Hmm. I'm not familiar with MOX fuel...

Have to do some reading on that. Her Blog fails to provide any technicals.


plutonium+uranium

neutron radiation

1 rad neutron produces 10 rems of bio damadge

Awoke
14th March 2011, 12:01 PM
Yeah I was just takling to a guy about it and he told me it's enriched.



So how much fuel does a reactor like this have active at any one time? Lets say you took all the fuel in one of these reactors and distributed it evenly over an area of, say, the the size of the state of Nevada. How much damage could these reactors do if the worst happened?


I can't answer that. The fuel would basically burn into the earth as far as I understand it.

The shit is so hot that if they don't keep it cool, it will just melt into the earth.

JohnQPublic
14th March 2011, 12:06 PM
Yeah I was just takling to a guy about it and he told me it's enriched.



So how much fuel does a reactor like this have active at any one time? Lets say you took all the fuel in one of these reactors and distributed it evenly over an area of, say, the the size of the state of Nevada. How much damage could these reactors do if the worst happened?


I can't answer that. The fuel would basically burn into the earth as far as I understand it.

The shit is so hot that if they don't keep it cool, it will just melt into the earth.


If it got distributed over a large area (like Nevada), it would not be that (thermally) hot. In order to make a thermal reactor, engineers need to put a large mass of the material together in a configuration that helps reinforce the reaction- like a nuclear reactor.

What would happen is that you would contaminate the plants, animals, water etc. in that region with nasty, toxic and radioactive compounds. This would get distributed and redistributed as animals eat the plants, each other, drink the water, etc.

DMac
14th March 2011, 12:11 PM
Emergency Cooling Effort Failing at Japanese Reactor, Deepening Crisis (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/world/asia/15nuclear.html?_r=1&hp)


TOKYO — Japan’s struggle to contain the crisis at a stricken nuclear power plant worsened sharply early Tuesday morning, as emergency operations to pump seawater into one crippled reactor failed at least temporarily, increasing the risk of an uncontrolled release of radioactive material, officials said.

Awoke
14th March 2011, 12:13 PM
You're right JQP, and that is another thing to keep in mind.

You don't have to worry about some kind of nuclear explosion when you talk about these reators melting down.
They will basically melt into a super hot radioactive blob and burn through the earth, but they will not explode like a bomb.

The science behind these reactors is exact, and the fuel rods spacing apart from each other is critical, so is the choice of moderator, in order for the reacotr to even split atoms.

You're not looking at a nuclear explosion like some kind of bomb. Just fyi.

Antonio
14th March 2011, 12:16 PM
You're right JQP, and that is another thing to keep in mind.

You don't have to worry about some kind of nuclear explosion when you talk about these reators melting down.
They will basically melt into a super hot radioactive blob and burn through the earth, but they will not explode like a bomb.

The science behind these reactors is exact, and the fuel rods spacing apart from each other is critical, so is the choice of moderator, in order for the reacotr to even split atoms.

You're not looking at a nuclear explosion like some kind of bomb. Just fyi.


Sounds great, the situation is downgraded from a giant nuke bomb to a regular nuke shit sandwich for millions of people :)

Awoke
14th March 2011, 12:18 PM
None of it is good. I just wanted to let people know that they aren't looking at a sweeping wall of nuclear fire licking across the face of the earth.

Kali
14th March 2011, 12:20 PM
Not much to worry about here in Cali it sounds like. Yeah, if some hits us it aint gonna kill us dead.

I dont plan to be around for more than a few more years anyways so not worried about long term effects.

vacuum
14th March 2011, 12:23 PM
Yeah I was just takling to a guy about it and he told me it's enriched.



So how much fuel does a reactor like this have active at any one time? Lets say you took all the fuel in one of these reactors and distributed it evenly over an area of, say, the the size of the state of Nevada. How much damage could these reactors do if the worst happened?


I can't answer that. The fuel would basically burn into the earth as far as I understand it.

The shit is so hot that if they don't keep it cool, it will just melt into the earth.


If it got distributed over a large area (like Nevada), it would not be that (thermally) hot. In order to make a thermal reactor, engineers need to put a large mass of the material together in a configuration that helps reinforce the reaction- like a nuclear reactor.

What would happen is that you would contaminate the plants, animals, water etc. in that region with nasty, toxic and radioactive compounds. This would get distributed and redistributed as animals eat the plants, each other, drink the water, etc.

My main question is, with a nuclear power plant of that capacity, how much is it capable of contaminating to the point of dangerous levels? The size of Nevada? California? the entire United States? How many tons of radioactive material is there vs the polluting power of that amount?

Awoke
14th March 2011, 12:33 PM
I can't answer that. Three reactor cores burning uncontrolled could melt their way into the earth right through land masses and radiate the water table.

This could be the worst event imagined. The problem is that there is so much fuel.

With bombs, the radiation is only around while the upset particles decay into stable particles. After the bomb goes off, there is a period ot time where you have some decayu and fallout.
With these reactors, you have a huge amount of fuel that is fissioning and creating unstable particles.

The fuel will not stay hot forever, but this is a long term issue for sure. That corner of the globe could be a write off before this is over. I can't really say.

I don't want to act like a nuclear engineer or anything, and when you get into forcasting the long term effects I will be quick to admit that I am firing from the hip, but I am somewhat educated on the topic.

Antonio
14th March 2011, 12:37 PM
Russians are commenting that nuclear energy experts everywhere call Japanese "Mongols with nuke reactors".

All they needed to have done is place the backup electric engines 10 meters higher than they were built. All this would have been averted, 10 lousy meters of concrete have decided the fate of that region.

Horn
14th March 2011, 12:39 PM
Sounds great, the situation is downgraded from a giant nuke bomb to a regular nuke shit sandwich for millions of people :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slRsexrhbG8

wrs
14th March 2011, 12:41 PM
The New York Times article says the vents aren't working and that is keeping them from putting water into unit 2. If the vents aren't working and the fuel is exposed, it sounds like at some point the containment will blow and that is the worst case.

chad
14th March 2011, 12:44 PM
where is spock when you need him?

vacuum
14th March 2011, 12:45 PM
The New York Times article says the vents aren't working and that is keeping them from putting water into unit 2. If the vents aren't working and the fuel is exposed, it sounds like at some point the containment will blow and that is the worst case.

That means the pressure would build until at some point the massive amount of pressure would cause it to explode like a hand-grenade, and everything would go everywhere.

Spectrism
14th March 2011, 12:49 PM
These reactors have multiples of contaminated fuel in storage OUTSIDE the containment vessel.



If the cores melt down and burn through the base, they would contaminate ground water, boil off that water making violent pressure streams and turn the area into a wasteland. The question: is the containment vessel going to remain intact?

If there is a sudden breakout, the crews will evacuate the area... and the other reactors are left unattended.

Horn
14th March 2011, 12:52 PM
These reactors have multiples of contaminated fuel in storage OUTSIDE the containment vessel.



If the cores melt down and burn through the base, they would contaminate ground water, boil off that water making violent pressure streams and turn the area into a wasteland. The question: is the containment vessel going to remain intact?

If there is a sudden breakout, the crews will evacuate the area... and the other reactors are left unattended.


Sounds to me like they should have just left all the reactors run when the quake hit.

This slow & arduous march of the pilot lights is killing me even more.

Antonio
14th March 2011, 12:53 PM
These reactors have multiples of contaminated fuel in storage OUTSIDE the containment vessel.



If the cores melt down and burn through the base, they would contaminate ground water, boil off that water making violent pressure streams and turn the area into a wasteland. The question: is the containment vessel going to remain intact?

If there is a sudden breakout, the crews will evacuate the area... and the other reactors are left unattended.


Do Japanese retain the kamikaze spirit? Russians have showed the world in 1986 that we have plenty of it. I hope Japanese will not abandon the reactors. I know they won`t because in that case they will have to commit suicide anyway.

Spectrism
14th March 2011, 12:59 PM
These reactors have multiples of contaminated fuel in storage OUTSIDE the containment vessel.



If the cores melt down and burn through the base, they would contaminate ground water, boil off that water making violent pressure streams and turn the area into a wasteland. The question: is the containment vessel going to remain intact?

If there is a sudden breakout, the crews will evacuate the area... and the other reactors are left unattended.


Do Japanese retain the kamikaze spirit? Russians have showed the world in 1986 that we have plenty of it. I hope Japanese will not abandon the reactors. I know they won`t because in that case they will have to commit suicide anyway.


I don't know if that would even help. I feel like a blind man sitting alone at a desk with hundreds of different collor button switches and the expert 2000 miles away is telling me over a crackling phone connection to push all the flashing blue buttons. And then he says something reassuring like: don't worry, there is no way anything bad can happen unless you push one of the other color buttons, and you are our only hope, so get it right.


Even if there are brave (foolhardy) people to stay and push buttons, they may have a short lifespan and no ability to do anything but delay the inevitable. I don't even know what I don't know.

Awoke
14th March 2011, 01:01 PM
These reactors have multiples of contaminated fuel in storage OUTSIDE the containment vessel.



You're right, but used-fuel storage is a very involved procedure. The used fuel is likely nowhere near the actual reactor cores. It is probably in a completely separate building. It is likely very safe.

sirgonzo420
14th March 2011, 01:01 PM
I don't know if that would even help. I feel like a blind man sitting alone at a desk with hundreds of different collor button switches and the expert 2000 miles away is telling me over a crackling phone connection to push all the flashing blue buttons. And then he says something reassuring like: don't worry, there is no way anything bad can happen unless you push one of the other color buttons, and you are our only hope, so get it right.


Even if there are brave (foolhardy) people to stay and push buttons, they may have a short lifespan and no ability to do anything but delay the inevitable. I don't even know what I don't know.


We need Homer Simpson, and quick!


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xHmHJYDguj4/Rd4Ve9gj32I/AAAAAAAAACk/ncr3l17nk2o/s400/20050121_v_homer-simpson5.jpg

Antonio
14th March 2011, 01:02 PM
These reactors have multiples of contaminated fuel in storage OUTSIDE the containment vessel.



If the cores melt down and burn through the base, they would contaminate ground water, boil off that water making violent pressure streams and turn the area into a wasteland. The question: is the containment vessel going to remain intact?

If there is a sudden breakout, the crews will evacuate the area... and the other reactors are left unattended.


Do Japanese retain the kamikaze spirit? Russians have showed the world in 1986 that we have plenty of it. I hope Japanese will not abandon the reactors. I know they won`t because in that case they will have to commit suicide anyway.


I don't know if that would even help. I feel like a blind man sitting alone at a desk with hundreds of different collor button switches and the expert 2000 miles away is telling me over a crackling phone connection to push all the flashing blue buttons. And then he says something reassuring like: don't worry, there is no way anything bad can happen unless you push one of the other color buttons, and you are our only hope, so get it right.


Even if there are brave (foolhardy) people to stay and push buttons, they may have a short lifespan and no ability to do anything but delay the inevitable. I don't even know what I don't know.

Exactly. One thing is certain, these reactors should have never been built at this location.

bellevuebully
14th March 2011, 01:10 PM
The New York Times article says the vents aren't working and that is keeping them from putting water into unit 2. If the vents aren't working and the fuel is exposed, it sounds like at some point the containment will blow and that is the worst case.

That means the pressure would build until at some point the massive amount of pressure would cause it to explode like a hand-grenade, and everything would go everywhere.


The whole event has been reported like this....completely ambiguous and nonsensical. I have pointed that our from the onset of this thread. At one point I heard a report that the the first explosion was not due to a meltdown, but because the walls fell down. I sez wha'?

Vents are what they sound like...vents. They let steam out when the boiler is under pressure. They may be automated, in order to control pressure, or used as a final safety arrangement where they open on a mechanically operated principal, ie) a spring and diaphram overcome by pressure. There are multiple pathways into the reactor through which water may be pumped. That also is irrelevant though. These units are not in peril because vents are not operating, they are in peril because there is no coolant. Any coolant (now apparently seawater) that is put into the boiler is not being circulated. If it was, none of this would be an issue in the first place. If you want to cut through the ambiguous nature of the reporting, this is what you really need to know:

1. They have exhausted most (or all) of the original coolant, including the contingency supplies.

2. This could have been due to either loss of ability to pump (it stagnated and turned to steam) or breakage in piping causing it to leak out.

3. They are now using seawater to cool the bundles. As mentioned, this is way, way out of the normal operating envelope.

4. Any seawater that is put into the boiler is either being lost due to leakage, or is being turned to steam due to the lack of circulation and heat sinking. In both cases the water or steam contains a lot of radioactive products, due to the design of the reactor.

5. The only way this can be contained is to restore the ability to fill the system with water, cover the fuel, circulate the water through a heat sink to remove the fuel. Short of that, they are running on borrowed time.

I also doubt that with 3 units in the same condition, they have the manpower or resources to stop what seems like an inevitable meltdown. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but that is what they seem to be facing. I'm just sharing this to try and inform an obviously confused bunch of bystanders due to the ambiguous reporting in the msm.

Antonio
14th March 2011, 01:11 PM
http://www.prisonplanet.com/nuclear-plant-designer-says-japanese-government-suppressing-scale-of-crisis.html
Nuclear Plant Designer Says Japanese Government Suppressing Scale Of Crisis


A former nuclear power plant designer has said Japan is facing an extremely grave crisis and called on the government to release more information, which he said was being suppressed. Masashi Goto told a news conference in Tokyo that one of the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant was “highly unstable”, and that if there was a meltdown the “consequences would be tremendous”. He said such an event might be very likely indeed. So far, the government has said a meltdown would not lead to a sizeable leak of radioactive materials.

Mr Goto said the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear plant were suffering pressure build-ups way beyond that for which they were designed. There was a severe risk of an explosion, with radioactive material being strewn over a very wide area – beyond the 20km evacuation zone set up by the authorities – he added. Mr Goto calculated that because Reactor No 3 at Fukushima-Daiichi – where pressure is rising and there is a risk of an explosion – used a type of fuel known as Mox, a mixture of p lutonium oxide and uranium oxide, the radioactive fallout from any meltdown might be twice as bad.

He described the worst-case scenario: “It is difficult to say, but that would be a core meltdown. If the rods fall and mix with water, the result would be an explosion of solid material like a volcano spreading radioactive material. Steam or a hydrogen explosion caused by the mix would spread radioactive waste more than 50km. Also, this would be multiplied. There are many reactors in the area so there would be many Chernobyls.”

He accused the government of deliberately withholding vital information that would allow outside experts help solve the problems. “For example, there has not been enough information about the hydrogen being vented. We don’t know how much was vented and how radioactive it was.” He also described the use of sea water to cool the cores of the reactors at Fukushima-Daiichi as highly unusual and dangerous.

SLV^GLD
14th March 2011, 01:19 PM
I also doubt that with 3 units in the same condition, they have the manpower or resources to stop what seems like an inevitable meltdown.
QFT - the odds seem particularly high that at least one of these things melts down.

bellevuebully
14th March 2011, 01:25 PM
I also doubt that with 3 units in the same condition, they have the manpower or resources to stop what seems like an inevitable meltdown.
QFT - the odds seem particularly high that at least one of these things melts down.


If one melts down, the likelyhood is that the area will become too hazardous to maintain the presence of the vast resources of manpower required to battle the issue. I'm not sure of how this plays out though, whether there is sufficient containment under/around the core to isolate the fissioning core in a melted down state. I have a feeling we will be finding out before long.

wrs
14th March 2011, 01:25 PM
ents are what they sound like...vents. They let steam out when the boiler is under pressure. They may be automated, in order to control pressure, or used as a final safety arrangement where they open on a mechanically operated principal, ie) a spring and diaphram overcome by pressure. There are multiple pathways into the reactor through which water may be pumped. That also is irrelevant though. These units are not in peril because vents are not operating, they are in peril because there is no coolant. Any coolant (now apparently seawater) that is put into the boiler is not being circulated. If it was, none of this would be an issue in the first place. If you want to cut through the ambiguous nature of the reporting, this is what you really need to know:

Right, I understand they are vents to relieve pressure in an emergency. If they don't work, putting stuff in that will vaporize and thus increase the pressure is stupid. If they don't work and stuff is in there vaporizing because the heat is rising, then it may explode. Makes sense to me that if the vents won't open, they have problems from what is already in there and also that they sure aren't going to put anything more in.

bellevuebully
14th March 2011, 01:28 PM
ents are what they sound like...vents. They let steam out when the boiler is under pressure. They may be automated, in order to control pressure, or used as a final safety arrangement where they open on a mechanically operated principal, ie) a spring and diaphram overcome by pressure. There are multiple pathways into the reactor through which water may be pumped. That also is irrelevant though. These units are not in peril because vents are not operating, they are in peril because there is no coolant. Any coolant (now apparently seawater) that is put into the boiler is not being circulated. If it was, none of this would be an issue in the first place. If you want to cut through the ambiguous nature of the reporting, this is what you really need to know:

Right, I understand they are vents to relieve pressure in an emergency. If they don't work, putting stuff in that will vaporize and thus increase the pressure is stupid. If they don't work and stuff is in there vaporizing because the heat is rising, then it may explode. Makes sense to me that if the vents won't open, they have problems from what is already in there and also that they sure aren't going to put anything more in.


You are right, but the main point is that everything is FUBAR. The msm reporting is just adding to the confusion. Even the experts that are coming on to speak are all over the map with logic and accuracy.

wrs
14th March 2011, 01:33 PM
You are right, but the main point is that everything is FUBAR. The msm reporting is just adding to the confusion. Even the experts that are coming on to speak are all over the map with logic and accuracy.

What does this guy mean in the post above about many Chernobyl's? Is he suggesting that other facilities in the vicinity are without power and have no ability to control the heat in the reactors and so are just as bad off as these are?

Neuro
14th March 2011, 01:38 PM
In one of JQP's quoted articles it stated, that one of the advantages of using water instead of graphite, which was used in the Chernobyl reactor, was that the graphite caught fire, and water can't catch fire. However if the temperature gets high enough in the core the H2O molecule gets spliced into H2 and the oxygen probably reacts with the uranium/plutonium, or the steel in the containment and the hydrogen will burn when it gets in contact with the air, this is probably what already happened, when the reactor buildings exploded... The combining of the oxygen with the steel of the containment, will weaken it until it breaks in particularly exposed areas. If the explosions were caused by accumulation of Hydrogen inside the buildings, and it came from water close to the reactor core, then most likely hydrogen has continued to burn after the explosion and the containment is virtually rusting down, even if the core hasn't melted yet, the process will corrode the containment until it doesn't contain the core any longer...

bellevuebully
14th March 2011, 01:41 PM
You are right, but the main point is that everything is FUBAR. The msm reporting is just adding to the confusion. Even the experts that are coming on to speak are all over the map with logic and accuracy.

What does this guy mean in the post above about many Chernobyl's? Is he suggesting that other facilities in the vicinity are without power and have no ability to control the heat in the reactors and so are just as bad off as these are?


I heard other reports that units to the south were having cooling issues but have heard nothing definitive. I'll keep watching the 'news' to see if anything comes up.

Horn
14th March 2011, 01:46 PM
You are right, but the main point is that everything is FUBAR. The msm reporting is just adding to the confusion. Even the experts that are coming on to speak are all over the map with logic and accuracy.

What does this guy mean in the post above about many Chernobyl's? Is he suggesting that other facilities in the vicinity are without power and have no ability to control the heat in the reactors and so are just as bad off as these are?


They are multiple reactors, or batteries of reactors. Where Chernobyl was one.

chad
14th March 2011, 01:49 PM
In one of JQP's quoted articles it stated, that one of the advantages of using water instead of graphite, which was used in the Chernobyl reactor, was that the graphite caught fire, and water can't catch fire. However if the temperature gets high enough in the core the H2O molecule gets spliced into H2 and the oxygen probably reacts with the uranium/plutonium, or the steel in the containment and the hydrogen will burn when it gets in contact with the air, this is probably what already happened, when the reactor buildings exploded... The combining of the oxygen with the steel of the containment, will weaken it until it breaks in particularly exposed areas. If the explosions were caused by accumulation of Hydrogen inside the buildings, and it came from water close to the reactor core, then most likely hydrogen has continued to burn after the explosion and the containment is virtually rusting down, even if the core hasn't melted yet, the process will corrode the containment until it doesn't contain the core any longer...


saltwater can catch on fire. whoops, that's what they're pumping in there.

Neuro
14th March 2011, 01:55 PM
In one of JQP's quoted articles it stated, that one of the advantages of using water instead of graphite, which was used in the Chernobyl reactor, was that the graphite caught fire, and water can't catch fire. However if the temperature gets high enough in the core the H2O molecule gets spliced into H2 and the oxygen probably reacts with the uranium/plutonium, or the steel in the containment and the hydrogen will burn when it gets in contact with the air, this is probably what already happened, when the reactor buildings exploded... The combining of the oxygen with the steel of the containment, will weaken it until it breaks in particularly exposed areas. If the explosions were caused by accumulation of Hydrogen inside the buildings, and it came from water close to the reactor core, then most likely hydrogen has continued to burn after the explosion and the containment is virtually rusting down, even if the core hasn't melted yet, the process will corrode the containment until it doesn't contain the core any longer...


saltwater can catch on fire. whoops, that's what they're pumping in there.

They are between a huge rock and a hard place, and both are melting...

MarchHare
14th March 2011, 01:56 PM
This article helps to explain what the nuclear fuel rods are and the dangers of them being left uncooled in the reactor.


Explainer: What is a fuel rod and how does it work?

Lesley Ciarula Taylor

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/953648--explainer-what-is-a-fuel-rod-and-how-does-it-work?bn=1


The full exposure — twice — of the fuel rods at a Japanese nuclear power plant is dangerous but is not a harbinger of an imminent full meltdown, a spokesman at the U.S. Nuclear Energy Institute said Monday.

“The fuel rods are still in their cladding, as far as we know,” said Mitch Singer. “There was a slight bit of exposure.”

The fuel rods’ exposure at Unit 2 meant the loss of a “significant amount of reactor coolant,” NEI said in an analysis a few hours after the incident.

The Japanese government has distributed 230,000 units of potassium iodine to evacuation centres in the area surrounding the Fukushima Daiichi and Fukushima Daini stations, the International Atomic Energy Commission said. The potassium iodine hasn’t yet been given to the evacuees.

Potassium iodine counteracts a buildup of radioactive iodine in the thyroid.

If the fuel rods were left uncovered by cooling water long enough to crack, some radioactive material could be released into the fuel and a meltdown could begin.

In a partial meltdown, the uranium fuel has probably not melted. The 1979 Three Mile Island nuclear accident involved a partial core meltdown and is ranked as a 5 on the International Nuclear Events Scale, as is the Chalk River, Ont., incident in 1952 — the world’s first nuclear accident.

In a far more serious full meltdown, the cladding covering the fuel rods melts away under temperatures above 1,200 degrees Celsius and releases radioactive isotopes into the containment building.

Just before noon Eastern Time, Kyodo News Agency reported radiation levels at the site hit twice their previous maximums, according to the Tokyo Electric Power Co.

The reported spike was 313 millirem before dropping back down. The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s radiation dose limit for the public is 100 millirem per year.

At Unit 2, the fuel rods were fully exposed twice Monday as the levels of sea water being poured into the building dropped.

In the first case, Kyodo said, a fire pump used to deliver seawater malfunctioned. The second time, a steam vent of the pressure container of the reactor closed.

In the first instance, TEPC said water levels recovered to cover 30 centimetres in the lower parts of the fuel rods, Kyodo reported.

The Japanese reactors, made by General Electric and built in the 1970s, have thousands of thin, 12-foot-long fuel rods stacked like straws inside a pressure vessel made of steel up to 15 centimetres thick, The New York Times reported Monday.

The rods – actually tubes made of a zirconium alloy – contain ceramic pellets of uranium oxide that are about the size of a fingertip.

Ordinarily, this fuel core is kept submerged in water that circulates to remove the heat of nuclear fission, making steam that is used to turn turbines to generate electricity.

Even when the plants are shut down, there is still heat in the reactors. Unless a lot of water is pumped in constantly, the water can boil away and leave the fuel rods exposed.

If the rods are completely exposed long enough to allow them to spill thousands of fuel pellets to the bottom of the reactor, the heat becomes intense and the reactor is in full meltdown.

The NEI, the policy arm of the U.S. nuclear industry, pointed out that the walls of the containment buildings are steel and concrete 15 to 25 metres thick.

The previous explosions in the secondary containment buildings had not damaged the primary containment buildings or the reactor cores at Units 1 and 3, TEPCO said.

Pumping corrosive sea water laced with boric acid into the reactors is a last-ditch measure to keep everything cooled and contained; it is an admission that the reactors have been given up as lost, experts say. Getting them to function normally would require the pumps to be running normally, which requires electricity.

The utility firm said a hydrogen explosion at the nearby Unit 3 reactor Monday morning may have caused a glitch in the cooling system of the Unit 2 reactor.

TEPCO said it will look into opening a hole in the wall of the building that houses the reactor to release hydrogen.

The company has also begun work to depressurize the containment vessel of the Unit 2 reactor by releasing radioactive steam, the government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.

With only one fire pump working, TEPCO is placing priority on injecting water into the Unit 2 reactor, although both the Unit 1 and Unit 3 reactors still need coolant water injections, according to the agency.

The highest previously recorded radiation level at the Fukushima Daiichi site was 155.7 millirem at 1:52 p.m. Toronto time on Sunday, NEI said.

Radiation levels were reduced to 4.4 millirem by Sunday evening.

“As the cooling water went down in the reactor core, there was a slight bit of exposure of the fuel,” Singer told the Star.

“That led to a buildup of gas that had to be vented. They are pumping seawater into the primary and secondary containment buildings, which is building up pressure.”

At 5,000 millirem to 10,000 millirem, lab tests can pick up changes in blood chemistry, the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission reports.

Nausea starts after 50,000 millirem, hemorrhaging at 100,000 millirem. At 500,000 millirem, half of the people exposed will die within 30 days. At 2 million millirem, a person can die within days or even hours.

So far, one employee at a nuclear plant in Japan has been reported to have had an exposure of 10,000 millirem, not enough to produce obvious symptoms.

The annual dose limit for workers at nuclear plants in North America is 5,000 millirem.

DMac
14th March 2011, 01:57 PM
In one of JQP's quoted articles it stated, that one of the advantages of using water instead of graphite, which was used in the Chernobyl reactor, was that the graphite caught fire, and water can't catch fire. However if the temperature gets high enough in the core the H2O molecule gets spliced into H2 and the oxygen probably reacts with the uranium/plutonium, or the steel in the containment and the hydrogen will burn when it gets in contact with the air, this is probably what already happened, when the reactor buildings exploded... The combining of the oxygen with the steel of the containment, will weaken it until it breaks in particularly exposed areas. If the explosions were caused by accumulation of Hydrogen inside the buildings, and it came from water close to the reactor core, then most likely hydrogen has continued to burn after the explosion and the containment is virtually rusting down, even if the core hasn't melted yet, the process will corrode the containment until it doesn't contain the core any longer...


saltwater can catch on fire. whoops, that's what they're pumping in there.


Pumping salt water is the last ditch effort...we probably have 2 days left before the disaster really escalates (IMO).

Kali
14th March 2011, 01:59 PM
"Fuk US" Hima

Antonio
14th March 2011, 02:06 PM
"Fuk US" Hima


Hahaha,
http://www.engrish.com/

Antonio
14th March 2011, 02:14 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365781/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-All-3-Fukushima-nuclear-plant-reactors-meltdown.html
Japan's nightmare gets even WORSE: All THREE damaged nuclear reactors now in 'meltdown' at tsunami-hit power station


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365781/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-All-3-Fukushima-nuclear-plant-reactors-meltdown.html#ixzz1GbvrjBlK

Antonio
14th March 2011, 02:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7BJQ7LAlo

Ladies and gents, it`s March to the Scaffold.

Cobalt
14th March 2011, 02:24 PM
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-tokyo
live Tokyo Geiger.

PS. Russians are saying that in USSR we couldn`t build ANYTHING, not even an outhouse in a zone of such seismic activity.
What Japs have done is a monumental crime, not to mention the MOX fuel in them reactors...
http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/2011/03/japan-exploded-nuclear-plant-uses-mox.html


That geiger counter appears to be only working for just over 3 hours

This one shows it has 14 hours on the clock http://www.ustream.tv/channel/%E3%82%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%8 2%A6%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BF

Antonio
14th March 2011, 02:29 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366055/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-America-nuclear-alert-Fukushima-explosion.html

Meanwhile, a Navy crew delivering aid received almost a month’s worth of radiation in just one hour.
The U.S.S. Ronald Reagan was around 100 miles (160km) offshore when low-level radioactive contamination was detected from the stricken Fukushima plant.
Low radiation levels were detected on 17 members of the crew on three helicopters as they returned to the ship after delivering aid to the devastated city of Sendai.

Most of the radiation was found on the clothing of the 17-man crew, but also on one's skin. The sailors were said to not have experienced ill-effects following the incident.
Contamination was found on the helicopters, which were scrubbed down on landing


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366055/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-America-nuclear-alert-Fukushima-explosion.html#ixzz1GbzQnYoT

Supposedly Japs are keeping 40yrs worth of spent fuel on TOP of their reactors...

mick silver
14th March 2011, 02:32 PM
the storm is here

sunshine05
14th March 2011, 02:34 PM
From Russia TV. Why is the footage so poor, so blurry? It reminds me a little of all the the poor 9/11 videos. Will I ever stop being so suspicious of *everything*?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVCWGc173ic&feature=player_embedded

beefsteak
14th March 2011, 03:03 PM
Where was the support from all you "silent Christian Physicists" when I shared that my daughter who lives in Santa Maria is radiation endanger and scared out of her wits, thanks to Bible thumpers in her town and on her job.

Atheists are welcome to express support and compassion since the "GS-US Christian Bible Thumpers"on here" failed to express ANY compassion for this Dad and Granddad. Here I am, one long time GS-US'er GIM1'er and they couldn't even spare a "we hear ya' beef."

Jus sayin'...

chad
14th March 2011, 03:11 PM
Where was the support from all you "silent Christian Physicists" when I shared that my daughter who lives in Santa Maria is radiation endanger and scared out of her wits, thanks to Bible thumpers in her town and on her job.

Atheists are welcome to express support and compassion since the "GS-US Christian Bible Thumpers"on here" failed to express ANY compassion for this Dad and Granddad. Here I am, one long time GS-US'er GIM1'er and they couldn't even spare a "we hear ya' beef."

Jus sayin'...


I hear 'ya beef.

(and i used a capital letter, so you know i mean it).

Cebu_4_2
14th March 2011, 03:15 PM
sea water and boric acid?

http://english.aljazeera.net/

bellevuebully
14th March 2011, 03:15 PM
...we probably have 2 days left before the disaster really escalates (IMO).


2 seconds before I read this, I said to my m-i-law (ya, I'm having my own tsunami ;D) I give it till Wednesday before they are essentially bailing out wholesale. We'll see. Not a prediction or anything, just a gut feeling.

Neuro
14th March 2011, 03:22 PM
Where was the support from all you "silent Christian Physicists" when I shared that my daughter who lives in Santa Maria is radiation endanger and scared out of her wits, thanks to Bible thumpers in her town and on her job.

Atheists are welcome to express support and compassion since the "GS-US Christian Bible Thumpers"on here" failed to express ANY compassion for this Dad and Granddad. Here I am, one long time GS-US'er GIM1'er and they couldn't even spare a "we hear ya' beef."

Jus sayin'...
The danger your daughter is facing from radioactive materials is extremely minute. The worry and stress she seems to get from end of times fanatics is much more dangerous it seems. I think you can only try and reason with her, and encourage her not to listen to them. However Japan is in serious trouble, and that may cause a financial tsunami across the globe, and that is something she needs to protect herself from. I think your daughter and grandchildren should be close to you now!

gunDriller
14th March 2011, 03:29 PM
Where was the support from all you "silent Christian Physicists" when I shared that my daughter who lives in Santa Maria is radiation endanger and scared out of her wits, thanks to Bible thumpers in her town and on her job.

Atheists are welcome to express support and compassion since the "GS-US Christian Bible Thumpers"on here" failed to express ANY compassion for this Dad and Granddad. Here I am, one long time GS-US'er GIM1'er and they couldn't even spare a "we hear ya' beef."

Jus sayin'...


we hear ya !

i have stayed at the Motel 6 in Santa Maria and in Pismo. i like both towns. they are where the 101 "touches" the ocean, providing most blessed relief to anyone making the drive from NorCal to SoCal.

Bible folks in Santa Maria are trash-talking nuclear power ? that just seems odd.

bellevuebully
14th March 2011, 03:36 PM
Where was the support from all you "silent Christian Physicists" when I shared that my daughter who lives in Santa Maria is radiation endanger and scared out of her wits, thanks to Bible thumpers in her town and on her job.

Atheists are welcome to express support and compassion since the "GS-US Christian Bible Thumpers"on here" failed to express ANY compassion for this Dad and Granddad. Here I am, one long time GS-US'er GIM1'er and they couldn't even spare a "we hear ya' beef."

Jus sayin'...

Beef, with all due respect, when you wrote that, I saw the verbal storm happening and decided to basically avoid the whole section....not interested in bickering with other Christians. There are enough problems in the world without dividing the house in which we dwell.

Seeing what you just wrote, I went back and read intently what you wrote previously. Even in retrospect, I had trouble making out what you had written. What I did see was a bunch of arguing and anger, on the part of all parties involved.

But to be fair and unbiased, I've got to say, you can't be involved in a rant and then expect others to read between the lines and determine you are having anxiety about the situation. Like I said, even in retrospect, I had trouble making that out. I don't think your statement above is a fair one.

If you needed emotional support and asked for it, I'm sure you would have received what you needed. I don't know if your statement above was directed to me, but if it was, and you need support, emotional or other, let me know what I can do for you. Just ask.

Large Sarge
14th March 2011, 03:58 PM
I want to say I really appreciate all the updates, technical info, etc

and think this topic is very very important.

I hope we can keep "on topic" for this thread

one report said 42 million folks live in and around tokyo and that reactor.....

Thanks again to all the great folks contributing here

beefsteak
14th March 2011, 04:21 PM
Just ask.


Why exactly? Thinking the best of me jis too hard for you nowadays? I thought we were buds. Nothing like a little radiation around here to separate the friends from the sanctimonious types.

Unbiased my backside! I owned my anger. And I quoted my model for my anger. That ain't biased, that's Scriptural!!

The pisante/jerk who quoted that "Jesus was upset because they didn't know He was there to be the sacrifice and that's why that He got mad" was so full of infantile logic I had to turn my head in embarrassment.

Jesus lived 32+ years, right?
And He participated in all the burnt offering sacrifices, until HE BECAME the sacrifice. Until His Death, He had to do it the prescribed way because He was fulfillment of the law, not exempt from the law. And the law said, UNBLEMISHED ANIMALS were the only liiving things that could be sacrificed, not the JEWISH traditional money changer filth that was foisted off on the obedient Jewish male of the period.

Dig out a concordance, and a couple of authentic lectures by true scholars, Bully and that other jerk. Might learn s'mthing.

I'm still fried at the those wanting to bash Non-christians and other Christians as well it would appear, just to make themselves feel better. Bet they were also on the committees to inter the Japanese here in USA during WWII, right?

Don't darken my PM box, again, Bully. Now, I see how you got your Sick name.

:sicko <----Rev 3:16, a religious emoticon, jis fer you!

solid
14th March 2011, 04:34 PM
Beefsteak, every one of us here on the west coast..we are all in the same boat (so to speak). Hoping for the best, for our futures to hopefully not be affected by this. I really don't see a point to arguing back and forth over religion. This thread is very important to share the information, it should remain on topic.

Neuro
14th March 2011, 05:00 PM
one report said 42 million folks live in and around tokyo and that reactor.....
This is the real issue IMO, certainly I can understand people being worried elsewhere, but if you could statistically pinpoint a hundred deaths in the US 30 years from now from radioactive fallout from this disaster, I would be very surprised. But this will have enormous effects on Japanese life, for a long time... If you happen to have potassium iodide, send it to an aid organization in Japan, where it may actually do some good, instead of poisoning yourself and your family with it.

mike88
14th March 2011, 05:03 PM
found a source of potassium iodide , to protect the thyroid in children. product is called Spring Valley hair,skin & nails, collagen support. Available at wal mart. Could not find potassium iodide locally, sold out around portland. This product supplies 75% rda in the 3 tablet dose for adults. fyi

Large Sarge
14th March 2011, 05:05 PM
burning fuel rods, chernobyl on steroids ( a good read)

http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/2011/03/14/nuke-engineer-fuel-rod-fire-at-stricken-reactor-would-be-like-chernobyl-on-steroids/

Large Sarge
14th March 2011, 05:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gr8hr4W64E&feature=player_embedded

Large Sarge
14th March 2011, 05:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5la7EWhkUA

osoab
14th March 2011, 05:21 PM
FYI, the Dai-ichi #2 reactor blew a couple of hours ago.

NHK Live (http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/6810.htm)

Third blast rocks quake-damaged nuclear plant (http://www.smh.com.au/environment/third-blast-rocks-quakedamaged-nuclear-plant-20110315-1buq7.html)


A third explosion in four days has rocked the earthquake-damaged Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant in Japan.

Today's blast at Dai-ichi Unit 2 follows two hydrogen explosions at the plant - at Unit 1 and Unit 3 - as authorities struggle to prevent the catastrophic release of radiation in the area devastated by the tsunami.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Water levels have dropped precipitously inside Unit 2, twice leaving the uranium fuel rods completely exposed and raising the threat of a meltdown, hours after a hydrogen explosion tore through the building housing Unit 3.

The latest explosion was heard at 6.10am today (8.10am Melbourne time), a spokesman for the Nuclear Safety Agency said at a news conference.

The plant’s owner, Tokyo Electric Power, said the explosion occurred near the suppression pool in the reactor’s containment vessel. The pool was later found to have a defect.

International scientists have said there are serious dangers but not at the level of the 1986 blast in Chernobyl.

Japanese authorities were injecting seawater as a coolant of last resort, and advising nearby residents to stay inside to avoid contamination.Tokyo Electric Power said some employees of the power plant were temporarily evacuated following today's blast.

The latest threat comes as authorities predict the death toll along Japan’s tsunami-ravaged coast will surpass 10,000, and emergency workers grapple with the developing humanitarian disaster.



much more at link.

I have read some other stuff that the fuel rods were exposed for 2700mm. The containment vessel may have been breached. I haven't found links that verify this. These were posts from those listening to NHK.

JohnQPublic
14th March 2011, 05:38 PM
Here is a clear diagram of the containment strategy:

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2007/12/BoilingWater%20reactor.gif

The primary containment keeps the fuel rods close to drive the reaction. The control rods can slow it down or stop it.

If the fuel melts down, and through the primary reactor, then the "inerted drywell" is supposed to contain it (primary containment). The building is the final (secondary containment). Unfortunately those are blowing up.

From what I ahve been reading, the fuel is still in the reactor core, but potentially melting. If it melts through than the inerted drywell needs to contain it. From what I have read, in the inerted drywell, the fuel can spread out more and be cooled more effectively, helping to maintain the containment and slow the reaction. It is not clear to me if the inerted drywell is steel, contcrete, or steel reinforced concrete. I also wonder if the cap to the inerted drywell may have been blown off in the second explosion (based on the video). See the yellow cap in the illustration below.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/BWR_Mark_I_Containment%2C_cutaway.jpg

mamboni
14th March 2011, 05:43 PM
According to this expert (http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/), the Japanese reactors are designed to contain a core meltdown. He asserts that the cores will be contained because of the design of the triple containment. He sounds like he knows of what he speaks. Here is the executive summary:


•The plant is safe now and will stay safe.

•Japan is looking at an INES Level 4 Accident: Nuclear accident with local consequences. That is bad for the company that owns the plant, but not for anyone else.

•Some radiation was released when the pressure vessel was vented. All radioactive isotopes from the activated steam have gone (decayed). A very small amount of Cesium was released, as well as Iodine. If you were sitting on top of the plants’ chimney when they were venting, you should probably give up smoking to return to your former life expectancy. The Cesium and Iodine isotopes were carried out to the sea and will never be seen again.

•There was some limited damage to the first containment. That means that some amounts of radioactive Cesium and Iodine will also be released into the cooling water, but no Uranium or other nasty stuff (the Uranium oxide does not “dissolve” in the water). There are facilities for treating the cooling water inside the third containment. The radioactive Cesium and Iodine will be removed there and eventually stored as radioactive waste in terminal storage.

•The seawater used as cooling water will be activated to some degree. Because the control rods are fully inserted, the Uranium chain reaction is not happening. That means the “main” nuclear reaction is not happening, thus not contributing to the activation. The intermediate radioactive materials (Cesium and Iodine) are also almost gone at this stage, because the Uranium decay was stopped a long time ago. This further reduces the activation. The bottom line is that there will be some low level of activation of the seawater, which will also be removed by the treatment facilities.

•The seawater will then be replaced over time with the “normal” cooling water

•The reactor core will then be dismantled and transported to a processing facility, just like during a regular fuel change.

•Fuel rods and the entire plant will be checked for potential damage. This will take about 4-5 years.

•The safety systems on all Japanese plants will be upgraded to withstand a 9.0 earthquake and tsunami (or worse)

•I believe the most significant problem will be a prolonged power shortage. About half of Japan’s nuclear reactors will probably have to be inspected, reducing the nation’s power generating capacity by 15%. This will probably be covered by running gas power plants that are usually only used for peak loads to cover some of the base load as well. That will increase your electricity bill, as well as lead to potential power shortages during peak demand, in Japan.


Just the same, times such as this underline the importance of a BOB. Here's my ex-friend's bag:

http://gold-silver.us/forum/gallery/76_13_03_11_11_53_03.jpeg

JohnQPublic
14th March 2011, 05:56 PM
...•The seawater used as cooling water will be activated to some degree. Because the control rods are fully inserted, the Uranium chain reaction is not happening. That means the “main” nuclear reaction is not happening, thus not contributing to the activation. The intermediate radioactive materials (Cesium and Iodine) are also almost gone at this stage, because the Uranium decay was stopped a long time ago. This further reduces the activation. The bottom line is that there will be some low level of activation of the seawater, which will also be removed by the treatment facilities.



This is what I hope is the case, but wonder if it is true. I recall some of the early reports saying something about difficulty inserting the control rods.

Also, some people talk about the Zr cladding as the first containment strategy (i.e., the rod that the ceramic coated pellets of nuclear fuel are contained in, which may be melting already), then the reactor core as the next. The diagrams above treat the inerted drywell as the primary, but this is a matter of semantics and emphasis. I am still not sure hat they are referring to when they talk about triple containment (the reactor core?). This may be something specific to these reactor designs.

beefsteak
14th March 2011, 06:02 PM
Beefsteak, every one of us here on the west coast..we are all in the same boat (so to speak). Hoping for the best, for our futures to hopefully not be affected by this. I really don't see a point to arguing back and forth over religion. This thread is very important to share the information, it should remain on topic.


Solid,
when you direct your sanctimonious admonition to the bible thumpers who showed up early on here, starting with Spectrism, then and ONLY then will I believe you are truly interested in "staying on topic" regardless of the coast.

No one is arguing religion, unless it is you. I'm simply tired of being yelled at by "the revelators" when attempting to just get the job done, regardless of whose loved ones are at risk.

Capiche?

Or is Spectrism, G2Rad and AWOKE in particular, pet sacred cows in your eyes?

Don't answer. I already know, since you singled me out for calling them out.

beefsteak

PatColo
14th March 2011, 06:03 PM
rense radio tonight, begins 7:08 PM PT for 3 hours:


MONDAY
March 14, 2011

Geologist
Jim Berkland
The Causes Of The
9.0 Japan Quake

Bob Nichols
Two Reactor Buildings
Blown And A Lying
Japanese Government

Leuren Moret
Whistleblower Nuclear Expert
with Kei Suboata
Nuclear Power Plant Inspector

http://www.renseradio.com/listenlive.htm

PatColo
14th March 2011, 06:08 PM
ps welcome back mambo. :D

http://incogman.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/THE-TAO-OF-THE-BOB-ART-FINAL.jpg

Antonio
14th March 2011, 06:27 PM
Doc, please keep telling us we`ll be ok...

http://rense.com/general93/fuku.htm


Fukushima Reactor 2 Hit By
Loud INTERNAL Explosion
Tohoku Quake And Tsunami Monitor 4 - 'Internal Combustion'
By Yoichi Shimatsu
301501111 (0730 Tokyo Time)
3-14-11

At 6:14 a.m. a loud thud rocked Reactor 2 of Fukushima 1 nuclear power plant, quite unlike the previous two blasts that blew apart the surrounding structures. This time the explosion occurred inside the steel containment chamber that surrounds the core reactor. The containment chamber captures and holds runoff water and condensed steam that escapes from the core reactor.

TEPCO and the nuclear safety agency have not explained the process that led to the blast.

In Monitor 3, the chemistry of splitting water molecules into hydrogen gas and supercharged oxygen was explained. In the first two blasts, these volatile gases recombined outside the reactor unit and blew apart the concrete rooms.

This third and latest blast is one of internal combustion.

Inside the core reactor, "dry" fuel rods cause a chain reaction, which releases radioactive ions. The high energy of fission, in turn, splits the chemical bond in water, producing hydrogen and oxygen, which flow with the steam into the outer containment chamber.

In this case, hydrogen and oxygen radicals re-bonded inside the containment chamber with sudden vigor, expressed as an explosion. This explains why the air pressure in the surrounding room suddenly decreased. The chemical reaction that re-creates water sucks in air.

Following the re-formation of water, the core reactor's heat again ramped up pressure inside the containment chamber, forcing the release of radiation-contaminated steam into the surrounding room. Inside that concrete room, the radiation level quickly rose to 3,000 micro-sieverts (a unit used to measure the threat to human health) to a level of either 4 times or 6 times higher than safety limits, depending on which of two difficult guidelines one chooses to use

This process began on the afternoon of March 14, when the water level inside Reactor 2 sharply dropped, exposing 2.4 meters of the upper section of the fuel rods to air - or about half their length. These half-rod sections began the fission process.

The unexpected drop in the water level is due to the fact that TEPCO nuclear engineers have underestimated the speed of the chemical reaction that splits water into volatile gases.

Seawater was pumped into the core reactor, but by then the build-up of gases inside the containment chamber had reached a point of no return.

That's the bad news. The even worse news is that the explosive force of the internal blast reflected off the outer surface of the container chamber, thus focusing a surge of massive pressure against the core reactor vessel. There is a strong likelihood, yet to be determined by TEPCO, of damage to the steel alloy of the reactor vessel. So far, any micro-fissures in the core reaction have apparently not yet leaked heavily.

For the foreseeable future, there is no way to prevent this process of gas creation, which means combustion will recur again and again. The only procedure to prevent repeated internal combustion from eventually cracking or collapsing the core reactors is much faster release of steam into the atmosphere.

Since the filter equipment is apparently destroyed, much larger releases of radioactivity will start to pose a wider public-health threat. To partially lower the amount of particles released, TEPCO engineers should quickly jerry-rig an improvised steam-condensation unit using something simple like a 40-foot refrigerated container (and put some water sprinklers inside to trap particles) and then pump the wastewater through a long hose into the ocean floor.

Instead of moping and apologizing, TEPCO has to think outside the box, find fast solutions for every challenge. Meanwhile, speed up worst-case preparations for entombment of the reactors.

gunDriller
14th March 2011, 06:29 PM
found a source of potassium iodide , to protect the thyroid in children. product is called Spring Valley hair,skin & nails, collagen support. Available at wal mart. Could not find potassium iodide locally, sold out around portland. This product supplies 75% rda in the 3 tablet dose for adults. fyi


http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=11997238&adid=bzv_fb_revshr_001

it doesn't say what the ingredients are.

"Other Ingredients: Cellulose (Plant Origin), Croscarmellose, Silica, Vegetable Magneisum Stearate, Cellulose Coating, Gelatin, Mannitol."

maybe i'll get down there & check it out.

Awoke
14th March 2011, 06:40 PM
Shut up, Beefsteak. You're being a total asshole.

I for one never had any idea that your daughter is in any particular dangerous situation, but regardless of that, you're still being an asshole.

Cebu_4_2
14th March 2011, 06:44 PM
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=11997238&adid=bzv_fb_revshr_001

it doesn't say what the ingredients are.

"Other Ingredients: Cellulose (Plant Origin), Croscarmellose, Silica, Vegetable Magneisum Stearate, Cellulose Coating, Gelatin, Mannitol."

maybe i'll get down there & check it out.


Don't sound real bad, I think the iodide is the best component. Isn't this stuff in itself harmful?

bellevuebully
14th March 2011, 06:44 PM
Why exactly?

Ok, I've obviously missed something here. I'm not even going to try and track this back because I don't want to dig a hole any further than I apparently have. If I've offended you in some way Beef, please forgive me. I would like if you could point out what I obviously missed. I'm feeling pretty rotten about the post you left, and to be truthful, I think I missed something big time. Please respond.

edit.....Beef, in post 387 you mentioned someones loved ones being at risk. Is this what I missed? What exactly is going on?

edit2....ok, I see Awokes post above mentioning your daughter. Sorry again if I missed something. Obviously, I hadn't read it as intently as I thought.

zap
14th March 2011, 06:49 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42066534/ns/world_news-asia-pacific/

Containment has been breached, I don't know how to inbed video

osoab
14th March 2011, 07:02 PM
Japanese Prime Minister is speaking.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/

Gaillo
14th March 2011, 07:06 PM
OK everyone...

Just arrived, haven't been around much today. Noticed a bit of a brawl going on in this thread... ENOUGH!

Tried to split the thread to send the BS to the 'Dome, but it's too long of a thread for the forum software to handle. If the feud keeps up, I'll just delete everyone's posts who participated (since I can't split them off) and maybe dish out a ban or two.

COOL IT. Stay on the topic of the reactors, and KEEP IT CIVIL!

Cobalt
14th March 2011, 07:11 PM
Just came across the ticker at NHK World news

Japans Electric Power Company says radiation levels reached 8,217 microsieverts per hour near the front gate of the Fukushima No.1 nuclear power station at 8:31 AM Tuesday. Anyone in this kind of environment would be exposed to more than 3 years' worth of naturally occurring radiation within a single hour.

willie pete
14th March 2011, 07:17 PM
I haven't been following it closely at all, wasn't chernobyl a hell of alot worst though? ...and it DID leak...

Let me ask this ...what about ALL those "Tests" in the NV desert back in the '50's? ..how would that compare (radiation leakage wise) to the current situation in Japan?

osoab
14th March 2011, 07:18 PM
Listening to the live feed.

They are regeristing at reactor 1, 3, and 4 of 500, 400, & 100 milliSv. I think I have the numbers roughly correct.
Now, this is important for Japan and even possibly Tokyo due to prevailing winds.

This has no current impact at all on CONUS. I think this is being blown out of proportion. I have read where that fancy chart with the colors of the fallout was a hoax. The red zone had something like 3,000Sv exposure. 8Sv is a guaranteed lethal dose.

Where is all the fear mongering stemming from? Relax people and have a drink.

Edit. It is milliSv not microSv.

DMac
14th March 2011, 07:20 PM
4th reactor on fire, confirmed by the AP.

osoab
14th March 2011, 07:22 PM
Also from the live feed. Number 4 reactor is also on fire. This is, I believe, at the Dai-ichi plant. There are/were 6 reactors at Dai-ichi. 4-6 were down for maintenance. They just said 4 may leak radiation. I think 4 caught on fire from the other explosion. 30km radius evac zone now around Dai-ichi.

beefsteak
14th March 2011, 07:34 PM
4th reactor on fire, confirmed by the AP.


It was reported immediately (CNN or FOX or both) after the quake that the automatic shutdown sequence triggered by the Earthquake did NOT occur in 11 reactors.

4 down, 7 MINIMUM t'go till the tiger is out of the tank...

osoab
14th March 2011, 07:38 PM
4th reactor on fire, confirmed by the AP.


It was reported immediately after the quake that the automatic shutdown did NOT occur in 11 reactors.

4 down, 7 MINIMUM t'go.




It wouldn't have been this one. There was no activity going on at reactors 4, 5, & 6 and the Dai-ishi site. Those three were down for maintenance.

There were 4 reacators at the Dai-ini site, and the one that started with O had 2 reactors I think.

beefsteak
14th March 2011, 07:50 PM
There are 55 total in Japan according to the same reporter who stated 11 failed to automatically shut down when the quake occurred.

We'll all be informed in the fullness of time if they were under-reporting from the git-go, the size of the problem.

Back when Y2K was all the raging fear, the statistics were published then by serious research groups which revealed better than 90% of the backup generators on nuke power generating sites USA were either out of commission, or not even on site as required. Of those that were supposedly insitu, less than 1 in 20 would fire up when tested prior to Y2K. And these generators were not to generate power, but to keep the cooling pumps going in the reactors themselves incase of failures.

It's one of the nuclear industry's dirty little "redundancy" secrets that is now biting like an great white...only "we've had almost 12 years to 'fix this.' " This isn't just Japan's problem...it was a 1999 Y2K USA report I'm quoting from memory.

Sucks.

bellevuebully
14th March 2011, 07:56 PM
C'mon Beef. Pm me. This is not right.

Tom Roscal
14th March 2011, 08:02 PM
should west coasters start packing?

Kali
14th March 2011, 08:07 PM
should west coasters start packing?


GTFO NOW!!!!

(JK)

I'd wait to see what happens to Tokyo.

There's nowhere to run though...once you hit the east coast the madrid fault will go and blow your ass back to the west.

chud
14th March 2011, 08:12 PM
Things are not as bad with the reactors as the media is making it out to be. The media is ignorant and hasn't researched the science thoroughly.
Read here for a clear explanation of what is going on: http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/
The Japanese will get through this, and we are in no danger from their reactors.

JohnQPublic
14th March 2011, 08:25 PM
Things are not as bad with the reactors as the media is making it out to be. The media is ignorant and hasn't researched the science thoroughly.
Read here for a clear explanation of what is going on: http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/
The Japanese will get through this, and we are in no danger from their reactors.



Mamboni posted this earlier today. Plus this was written yesterday. I gave a similar explanation today, but frankly things are getting worse much faster.

Spectrism
14th March 2011, 08:33 PM
Beefsteak, every one of us here on the west coast..we are all in the same boat (so to speak). Hoping for the best, for our futures to hopefully not be affected by this. I really don't see a point to arguing back and forth over religion. This thread is very important to share the information, it should remain on topic.


Solid,
when you direct your sanctimonious admonition to the bible thumpers who showed up early on here, starting with Spectrism, then and ONLY then will I believe you are truly interested in "staying on topic" regardless of the coast.

No one is arguing religion, unless it is you. I'm simply tired of being yelled at by "the revelators" when attempting to just get the job done, regardless of whose loved ones are at risk.
Capiche?

Or is Spectrism, G2Rad and AWOKE in particular, pet sacred cows in your eyes?

Don't answer. I already know, since you singled me out for calling them out.

beefsteak


Geee Beef.... you like the ginzoid capiche alot, eh? Not sure I understand your rant. Is this "get the job done" something you are trying to do?

No sacred cows around here. I don't even moooo. Lookin for sumthin to slaughter?

vacuum
14th March 2011, 09:06 PM
Seems like no one really knows what is going on at this point. It could either be really really bad, or end up having no material impact on the environment from what I've seen. The only known right now is that they are going to have electricity issues in Japan.

Antonio
14th March 2011, 09:09 PM
http://en.rian.ru/world/20110315/163008312.html

4th reactor on fire.

cortez
14th March 2011, 09:10 PM
e-mail from my chemist friend


Nothing beats blue turds!!!!!!!!! I'm not sure how worked up to get over this. I know they had two explosions at two different reactors, and that the rods were exposed intermittently at a couple of plants; however, I'm still not clear on the extent of radiation leakage. I'm still looking into it. Also, if there was leakage ( I'm assuming there is at least a little - some of our troops on humanitarian mission there were scrubbed due to low level exposures) I am trying to figure out the true expected fall out map. I have seen one that looks completely specious: it shows the west coast getting hit with 500 - 700 rad 6 or more days after the explosion. That doesn't seem right. Also, we should have until tomorrow at the earliest before worrying about anything, or hopping a flight back east for an impromptu vacation.


The two main things to worry about are radioactive iodine and cesium. Potassium iodide would be good for the iodine (obviously) and the prussian blue would alleviate the cesium exposure. You might do yourself some real harm if you don't make the prussian blue up correctly ( I would stay away from it). A better alternative might be cessium chloride (50mg dose): see the attached link.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3412208




If you have more details about the explosions and leaks, pass it on.


We're f'ed, just probably not from the radiation but the global banking elite.

cortez
14th March 2011, 09:19 PM
Things are not as bad with the reactors as the media is making it out to be. The media is ignorant and hasn't researched the science thoroughly.
Read here for a clear explanation of what is going on: http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/
The Japanese will get through this, and we are in no danger from their reactors.



this post is from the 13th. before unit three exploded

Glass
14th March 2011, 10:00 PM
apparently radiation levels have spiked 250 times more than previously reported since the latest explosion a short while ago.

mamboni
14th March 2011, 10:05 PM
The shit just hit the fan in Japan. :o :o :o

Nikkei Flash Crash - Futures Plummet 16% As All Hell Breaks Loose In Japan
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/14/2011 23:01 -0400

JapanMeltdownNikkeiYen


All hell is currently breaking loose following an explosion at reactor #2 and a another hydrogen explosion at reactor #4 per Kyodo, leading to a 16% drop in Nikkei futures as blind panic grips Japan. Kyodo essentially confirms there was a reactor meltdown as radiation levels at Fukushima 3 are now 400 times legal levels. And topping it all Japan's warning that all people within 30 kilometers from Fukushima should stay indoors and that the radioactive winds may reach Tokyo in as little as 8-10 hours. The BOJ has just intervened to prevent the yen from surging, as the following chart shows. Our prayers are with the people of Japan.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/nikkei-flash-crash-futures-plummet-16-all-hell-breaks-loose-japan

Tokyo Update: Radiation Level 23 Times Normal
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/15/2011 00:22 -0400




DJ Tokyo Metropolitan Govt: Radiation Level 23 Times Normal Amount
DJ Tokyo Metropolitan Govt: No Immediate Harm To Human Health From Radiation In Central Tokyo

cortez
14th March 2011, 10:11 PM
yes now they are calling for no fly zone over reactor #2 and its about to go full scale meltdown. catostrophic soon

silver solution
14th March 2011, 11:19 PM
What is up ith this MOX fuel?

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/

vacuum
14th March 2011, 11:20 PM
Wow, we are seeing a country be destroyed overnight. And they weren't even enslaving the world and starting wars just for the hell of it.

Glass
14th March 2011, 11:33 PM
What is up ith this MOX fuel?

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/


Good question silver solution. I was watching just about 30 minutes ago and RT was playing an interview they did with one of their reporters who is in Japan. He has been reporting with mobile phone and web cam. He was bailing out - heading to the airport. France embassy has told everyone who can get out of Japan to hustle.

During the interview the guy says that these reactors generally have about 70 of these fuel rods in them, however Reactor #4 has about 700 of these fuel rods in it. The way he was describing it, it was as if they were using it to store their fuel rods either after they had been used/depleted or before they were to be used. Not sure exactly but the problem is pretty obvious IMO.

I was talking to a relative on Sunday night my time, morning US time and I was saying that they really should be airlifting people out of Japan by then...... 2 days ago now. Anyone in the north should be rounded up, shoved on a plane and relocated....... anywhere but there. I said the whole country is going to get enveloped by this one if it blows. At least get the young and old out of the country if they can. Heck I would be happy to put a family up for a few months if they could get out. I'm sure there would be tens of thousands of households world wide who could take them in temporarily. Just get the hell out of there until the dust settles.

zap
14th March 2011, 11:39 PM
I 'm sure it won't help, but it can't hurt, Say a prayer for them.

God Bless all the Japanese people

ximmy
14th March 2011, 11:42 PM
Wow, we are seeing a country be destroyed overnight. And they weren't even enslaving the world and starting wars just for the hell of it.


we'll get ours... :(

zap
14th March 2011, 11:43 PM
Yep, I believe you are correct Ximy, it will be our turn next?

keehah
14th March 2011, 11:46 PM
I guess they just never expected to have an earthquake AND a tsunami. In Japan no less. ::)

Idiocracy (or Corporate Psychopathy) that a College level safety audit would not catch this simpleton level fatal mistake in nuclear plant design.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/71193/title/Japan_struggles_to_control_earthquake-damaged_nuke_plant

As planned, backup diesel generators kicked in after the monster earthquake and continued to pump water in to cool the reactor cores. But when a tsunami swept across the Japanese coast about an hour later, the wave apparently flooded and disabled the backup generators. The next backup system then kicked in: battery-powered pumps.

But the battery pumps could not keep up with the residual heat still coming from the cores of several Daiichi reactors. Excess heat caused steam to build up in the system, which operators eventually vented into the environment along with low levels of radioactive elements like cesium and iodine.

silver solution
14th March 2011, 11:55 PM
Yep, I believe you are correct Ximy, it will be our turn next?
I think I have picked up on a liitle hint here and there that they have something evil planned for here.

I did not pick up on whole country?

Antonio
15th March 2011, 12:02 AM
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/509

Idiocy and genius often go together. Russian technological genius is undisputed after 20 space firsts but so is our recklessness.
It seems like when we finally absorb the extent of Japanese recklessness that has led to this shit, we may start looking at Japs differently. Japs may have outdone Russians by now. The diff is that when Russians fuck up royally, they destroy themselves thru booze or occasionally shoot or hang themselves, Japs have to do a seppuku. I can see a lot of guts and shit splattered on walls pretty soon in Japan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WMEczUd_W8

ShortJohnSilver
15th March 2011, 12:02 AM
As planned, backup diesel generators kicked in after the monster earthquake and continued to pump water in to cool the reactor cores. But when a tsunami swept across the Japanese coast about an hour later, the wave apparently flooded and disabled the backup generators. The next backup system then kicked in: battery-powered pumps.

But the battery pumps could not keep up with the residual heat still coming from the cores of several Daiichi reactors. Excess heat caused steam to build up in the system, which operators eventually vented into the environment along with low levels of radioactive elements like cesium and iodine.

The battery-powered pumps were supposed to be replaced with replacement gensets - but when they got those there - the wiring was not compatible and they didn't have the right tools or ability to connect it up.

Note that newer designs have a large water tower for emergency cooling, just open a valve and let gravity do the rest...no power needed.

zap
15th March 2011, 12:05 AM
Yep, I believe you are correct Ximy, it will be our turn next?
I think I have picked up on a liitle hint here and there that they have something evil planned for here.

I did not pick up on whole country?


The luck of the draw?

Mouse
15th March 2011, 12:10 AM
One fuel assembly has 17*17 array of fuel rods (depending on assembly type - this would be a westinghouse RFA-2 design). There are multiple regions in each plant. There are anywhere up to 200 fuel assemblies loaded and typically some being swapped out. They also store, depending on the design, spent and "fresh" assemblies in the building. There are likely thousands of individual fuel rods in each reactor. The 70 rods number from the journalist is likely the number of fuel regions, or assemblies of fuel.

The Mixed Oxide fuel is definitely more fun as it presents its own disposal problems. MOX is made using PU239 from spent fuel in a mix with uranium. I don't know all that much about it other than its a good idea for helping dispose of spent fuel and it is known as a "hot burning" fuel. There are papers out there where disposal issues are addressed, just search Google.

I don't know a lot more and I am sure some of our industry people here can chime in. I worked in electricity and had experience with nuke plants in so much as going there and checking inventories, systems, and things like that, as well as auditing fuel assembly delivered for adherence to contract specs and financial charges, penalties for late or noncompliant fuel and etc. I am an accountant, not a nuke physicist, but I have my ALARA training and badge :)

As best I can tell this is some pretty bad shit, but I am still hopeful it will be mostly contained. I would have to get conspiratorial if they let this thing Chernobyl, as I believe we are well past that little lesson and should have learned by now.

keehah
15th March 2011, 12:51 AM
No mention yet (on the websites of the local papers) we are dead centre of the expected path of landfall of radiation from melting down nuclear reactors in the next 24-48 hours.


OK, now that we have had three, and soon to be four(?) nuclear plants blow up and start leaking just upwind of us, the LocAL MSM has decided to start talking about the denial of fallout.

To sum up: Nothing to see hear folks, but read between the lines it seems a likely scenario.
Basically they are not looking out for the best interests of the locals, but feel it is acceptable to base inaction (or even to dismiss discussion) on the fact that the Japanese MSM is not covering the radiation leaks. Like a game of sociopathic chicken, who is going to be the first government to care about its people, and then force the other to 'save face' and pretend to care too.

And too bad we no longer have real people being reporters anymore. A reporter may have asked for some numbers and science behind their declaration of "not significant" other than repeating the declaration of 'nothing to worry about here dear' from the government mandarin.

People in BC fearing radiation exposure seek iodide tablets; But the top provincial doctor says taking them is not a good idea (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/197238--people-in-bc-fearing-radiation-exposure-seek-iodide-tablets)

Jill Drews/Lara Fominoff Mar 14, 2011

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - There's no need to panic and run to a pharmacy for iodide tablets. The top provincial doctor says radiation from Japanese nuclear reactors won't likely drift into BC.

Dr. Perry Kendall says since the nuclear reactors began exploding and local emergency response teams have been evacuating tens of thousands of people while handing out iodide tablets, there have been worries here in BC that some of that radiation could spread over here.

There have even been people here demanding the same pills. But Kendall says taking them isn't a good idea.

"I would advise people that really it isn't necessary to be taking potassium iodide. My advice is don't take it unless under the supervision of a physician," he urges. Too much potassium iodide can cause heart problems.

He's been told the majority of the nuclear fuel has been contained, and even in a worst case scenario it could take nearly a week for the radiation to hit our province and by then it would have been dispersed.

Kendall's sentiments are echoed by Kris Starosta, an associate professor with SFU's chemistry department. He says three factors would have to align for radiation to reach our shores. First, there would have to be a fracture in the Fukushima containment tank, releasing radioactive gas, water or solids, something that hasn't happened.

"Depending on how it breaks, you will have certainly a release of gas, and you may or may not have a release of water which would be contaminated."

Next, Starosta says the weather would have to co-operate. "The radioactivity which is released would have to be carried through the atmosphere or the water to the atmosphere of BC."

And the process would also have to happen quickly before isotopes decay. Overall, Starosta says even in a very bad scenario, the effect on BC will not be significant.
Times are a changing though in some ways. Here was the first comment after the article. ;D

Disinfo
Dont believe this SFU QUACK! I just heard interviews hours ago Robert M. Bowman former Director of Advanced Space Programs Development for the U.S. Air Force and Doug Rokke former member of the 3rd U.S. Army Medical Command's Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Division and they are talking a difference story, whats this SFU guy supposed to say, ALL HELL IS BREAKING OUT? They dont want to get a panic on but lying to the public is simply criminal. Shame on the BC government. Get your news from INFOWARS.COM

nunaem
15th March 2011, 01:15 AM
Radiation levels now 23 times normal in Tokyo and likely still increasing.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tokyo-radiation-levels-23-times-normal-officials-2011-03-15-04540 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tokyo-radiation-levels-23-times-normal-officials-2011-03-15-04540)

Buddha
15th March 2011, 01:36 AM
No mention yet (on the websites of the local papers) we are dead centre of the expected path of landfall of radiation from melting down nuclear reactors in the next 24-48 hours.


OK, now that we have had three, and soon to be four(?) nuclear plants blow up and start leaking just upwind of us, the LocAL MSM has decided to start talking about the denial of fallout.

To sum up: Nothing to see hear folks, but read between the lines it seems a likely scenario.
Basically they are not looking out for the best interests of the locals, but feel it is acceptable to base inaction (or even to dismiss discussion) on the fact that the Japanese MSM is not covering the radiation leaks. Like a game of sociopathic chicken, who is going to be the first government to care about its people, and then force the other to 'save face' and pretend to care too.

And too bad we no longer have real people being reporters anymore. A reporter may have asked for some numbers and science behind their declaration of "not significant" other than repeating the declaration of 'nothing to worry about here dear' from the government mandarin.


It's like Chernobyl, a documentary was posted in a thread here in GD. It took a couple days for them to evacuate the village near the explosion when they said about 4 days of exposure would be fatal. They guy who is a gov official on the vid said they had no idea it was so bad, but they had the military on the ground taking radiation tests on day one. They even had the May day celebrations going on and encouraged people to go out and attend when some areas had I think they said 1000 times normal radiation.

it wasn't until some radioactive dust started falling in sweden or switzerland that it started becoming public. The peoples safety is not of concern in cases like this, the only concern is to to limit political fallout/loss of power etc.

crazychicken
15th March 2011, 03:32 AM
What is up ith this MOX fuel?

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/


snip/snip

I was talking to a relative on Sunday night my time, morning US time and I was saying that they really should be airlifting people out of Japan by then...... 2 days ago now. Anyone in the north should be rounded up, shoved on a plane and relocated....... anywhere but there. I said the whole country is going to get enveloped by this one if it blows. At least get the young and old out of the country if they can. Heck I would be happy to put a family up for a few months if they could get out. I'm sure there would be tens of thousands of households world wide who could take them in temporarily. Just get the hell out of there until the dust settles.

Same here!

CC

mick silver
15th March 2011, 03:33 AM
the water is now broiling . that sound real bad now . it look like they are moving the line back to were it safe to be

mick silver
15th March 2011, 04:57 AM
they have went to a 6 level . i think i heard them say 7 is the highest on the chart so it look like it not going to end will . i think we all knew this already . i take my hat off to the men an women who stay to fight a battle that was not going to end well . thanks awoke for helping me understand what maling the water broil . my god bless the world

Spectrism
15th March 2011, 05:23 AM
What is up ith this MOX fuel?

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/


Good question silver solution. I was watching just about 30 minutes ago and RT was playing an interview they did with one of their reporters who is in Japan. He has been reporting with mobile phone and web cam. He was bailing out - heading to the airport. France embassy has told everyone who can get out of Japan to hustle.

During the interview the guy says that these reactors generally have about 70 of these fuel rods in them, however Reactor #4 has about 700 of these fuel rods in it. The way he was describing it, it was as if they were using it to store their fuel rods either after they had been used/depleted or before they were to be used. Not sure exactly but the problem is pretty obvious IMO.

I was talking to a relative on Sunday night my time, morning US time and I was saying that they really should be airlifting people out of Japan by then...... 2 days ago now. Anyone in the north should be rounded up, shoved on a plane and relocated....... anywhere but there. I said the whole country is going to get enveloped by this one if it blows. At least get the young and old out of the country if they can. Heck I would be happy to put a family up for a few months if they could get out. I'm sure there would be tens of thousands of households world wide who could take them in temporarily. Just get the hell out of there until the dust settles.


These are the cooling towers I mentioned a few pages back. They have much more nuclear material than the contained reactors. It is possible that these hydrogen explosions came from these things heating up. They are feared to be gaining more exposure as water evaporates from these pools. My guess is that these suckers can begin to burn and make Chernobyl look mild.

Something that complicates this is the fact that they stacked multiple reactors together. When there is one problem, all have a problem. Why they were storing extra rods in cooling pools outside containment- I have no idea. This is startig to sound like there were many stupid things done- from the original GE design (ancient technology) to the poor practices. Now, I think they are still holding back crucial information.

Glass
15th March 2011, 05:32 AM
Radiation levels now 23 times normal in Tokyo and likely still increasing.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tokyo-radiation-levels-23-times-normal-officials-2011-03-15-04540 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tokyo-radiation-levels-23-times-normal-officials-2011-03-15-04540)

Very confusing article
0.8 micro SV/HOUR is not 23 times normal


yes not sure what a normal level would be. A web site said this:

A sievert and a gray are equal in the amount of radiation, but a sievert is a reflection of all of the available radiation and a gray represents just the radiation absorbed by a body. At 40 micro Sv/h, the total radiation in the environment at the site is equal to .00004 Sv per hour. Before the onset of Acute Radiation Syndrome, a person would have to absorb all of the available radiation for 17,500 consecutive hours. Even at 500 micro Sv/h, it would still take 1,400 consecutive hours.


More...... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110313/sc_ac/8052958_radiation_fears_prompted_by_japanese_react or_explosion_1)

I'm not saying I understand any of it, but someone else might make sense of it.

Book
15th March 2011, 05:44 AM
http://www.phototravels.net/japan/pcd1663/rock-garden-39.3.jpg

http://www.worldofstock.com/thumbs/WOS5963.jpg

Soon the rock garden will glow in the dark when it is raked.

G2Rad
15th March 2011, 07:09 AM
Radiation levels now 23 times normal in Tokyo and likely still increasing.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tokyo-radiation-levels-23-times-normal-officials-2011-03-15-04540 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tokyo-radiation-levels-23-times-normal-officials-2011-03-15-04540)

Very confusing article
0.8 micro SV/HOUR is not 23 times normal


yes not sure what a normal level would be. A web site said this:

A sievert and a gray are equal in the amount of radiation, but a sievert is a reflection of all of the available radiation and a gray represents just the radiation absorbed by a body. At 40 micro Sv/h, the total radiation in the environment at the site is equal to .00004 Sv per hour. Before the onset of Acute Radiation Syndrome, a person would have to absorb all of the available radiation for 17,500 consecutive hours. Even at 500 micro Sv/h, it would still take 1,400 consecutive hours.


More...... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110313/sc_ac/8052958_radiation_fears_prompted_by_japanese_react or_explosion_1)

I'm not saying I understand any of it, but someone else might make sense of it.


Normal is 0.1 µSv/h

mamboni
15th March 2011, 07:22 AM
Live streaming og Geiger counter in Tokyo:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/%E3%82%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%8 2%A6%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BF

Ragnarok
15th March 2011, 07:46 AM
It's not the radiation in Japan that would be a threat, any threat to the US would come from long-lived radioactive isotopes carried to the US as/on microscopic dust particles and eventually being breathed in by people. Then it's a waiting game over years while those atoms disintegrate and bombard the surrounding tissues with alpha, beta, gamma or neutrons, and each time you roll the dice to see if there were any critical hits to any DNA in the vicinity.

R.

Large Sarge
15th March 2011, 08:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxzQPiy_U1M&feature=player_embedded

Spectrism
15th March 2011, 08:50 AM
Knowing that they have been storing years' of fuel rods in the pools over the reactor vessels, can you imagine how easy a military target that would be for destroying a country? A single conventional bomb dropped on one of those could do the damage of several nukes.

Who needs terrorists when we have stupidity in nuke designs?

chad
15th March 2011, 08:55 AM
Knowing that they have been storing years' of fuel rods in the pools over the reactor vessels, can you imagine how easy a military target that would be for destroying a country? A single conventional bomb dropped on one of those could do the damage of several nukes.

Who needs terrorists when we have stupidity in nuke designs?


they did drop a conventional bomb, sort of, only it was haarp.

sunnyandseventy
15th March 2011, 09:02 AM
Knowing that they have been storing years' of fuel rods in the pools over the reactor vessels, can you imagine how easy a military target that would be for destroying a country? A single conventional bomb dropped on one of those could do the damage of several nukes.

Who needs terrorists when we have stupidity in nuke designs?


they did drop a conventional bomb, sort of, only it was haarp.


Weaponized disaster.

Awoke
15th March 2011, 09:24 AM
I don't know about that.

I can imagine HAARP to be an "earthquake maker", but to pinpoint the nuclear facility is beyond a stretch.

Evne then, I am not conviced that it is an earthquake maker. If you research "Russian blackbox earthquake box frequency" and some other keywords, you will find an article somewhere about how the russian government discovered that they could effect the earths core resonant frequency, but it scared the shit out of them and they stopped. But even after they had turned the box "off", the earth took a few weeks to return to it's normal frequency.

That was back I think in the 70's or something. Man, that was a long time ago when I read that article, and I have never been able to find it again, so best of luck to you.


And FTR, I am not saying it is all true. AFAIC, HAARP is nothing more than a population mood control tool.

Large Sarge
15th March 2011, 09:32 AM
I think they used a nuke along the fault line under the ocean (same as the Indian ocean one)

much more precise

they got a monster tsunami with that one also

mick silver
15th March 2011, 09:35 AM
http://www.rockhoundstation1.com/EARTHWATCH08.html

mick silver
15th March 2011, 09:39 AM
http://tlc.discovery.com/convergence/quakes/interactives/makeaquake.html

mick silver
15th March 2011, 09:41 AM
http://vodpod.com/watch/2324670-haarp-earthquake-maker

Large Sarge
15th March 2011, 09:44 AM
http://vodpod.com/watch/2324670-haarp-earthquake-maker


video has been pulled

G2Rad
15th March 2011, 10:22 AM
Our reactors are ticking time bombs

Read about one of the East Coast reactors. (http://www.pilgrimwatch.org/radw1.html)

That one is about 25 miles from Boston.

The report is troubling.

There are 3,859 spent-fuel assembliles, (40 years worth of spent nuclear fuel), kept inside the reactor building in a temporary pool, that was designed to hold only 880 assemblies before they were supposed to be transfered into a permanent storage facility.

The "permanent storage facility" never happened and all the spent-fuel since 1972 is kept on-site in that pool just above the roof.

The pool must be filled with water because the fuel releases heat and radiation. The water must be continuously cooled to remove the heat generated by the assemblies. If the cooling is halted, the fuel pool would heat up and boil away. If the water boils off or is drained, the spent fuel will overheat, melt, or catch on fire. NRC concedes a fire would be so intense and so much radiation released in the area that it could not be extinguished.

Water loss is likely to result in a catastrophic fire. The spent fuel would be exposed to air and steam, the zirconium cladding that surrounds the rods would melt and catch fire. The NRC conceded that such a fire could not be extinguished – the radiation doses in the pool would be lethal – the fire could rage for days. Also the risk of a fire persists. NRC stated in an October 2000 study that the possibility of a zirconium fire cannot be dismissed even many years after a final reactor shutdown.

A spent fuel pool fire and release would be a regional and national disaster. The spent fuel pool contains many times more radioactivity than the core. Especially problematic is the large amount of Cesium-137; currently there is about 30 million curies in Pilgrim’s pool. Cesium-137 has a half-life of 30 years and gives off a highly penetrating form of radiation. It is absorbed in the food chain as if it were potassium. According to the NRC as much as 100% of the Cesium-137 would be released into the environment in a pool fire. For comparison, Chernobyl released 40% of the reactor core’s 6 million curies of Cesium-137. Pilgrim’s spent fuel pool has more Cesium-137 than was deposited by all the atmospheric nuclear weapons tests in North America combined.

Densely packed pools like Pilgrim’s are especially prone to fire. To avoid criticality of rods placed close together, neutron absorbing panels are placed between the assemblies. The extra panels will restrict air and water circulation if there is a water loss. Further, if the equipment collapses, as might occur in a terrorist attack, air and water flow to the stacked assemblies would be obstructed causing a fire, according to a NRC report.

http://www.pilgrimwatch.org/radw1.html

Awoke
15th March 2011, 10:38 AM
This is true for all nuclear spent fuel bays.

The fuel needs to be kept cool and water must be circulated constantly. Nothing new here.

After a number of years when the fuel has cooled to a certain point, they will encase it in concrete buckets that are filled with fluid, and welded shut. This is called "Dry fuel storage".


This is a single fuel bundle.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2009/07/09/fuelbundle.jpg

Each pencil is filled from end to end with fuel pellets.

The bundles are taken out of the core after a vertain amount of time adn placed in skids with other bundles, which are placed in cooling pools call spent fuel bays.

Here is a spent fuel bay at th Bruce Nuclear plant:

http://www.environment.uwaterloo.ca/cooljobs/images/nicole03_2.jpg

This is a group of "Dry fuel storage" casks.

http://www.connyankee.com/assets/images/43_vccs02.jpg

keehah
15th March 2011, 10:57 AM
I think it is the fourth reactor that is releasing radiation now, not because the reactor was running, but because it stored old used rods just like in Boston and they are no longer feeding it enough water as well (like the active reactors).
________

Herald Sun, March 16: Radiation leaks drive exodus (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ipad/radiation-leaks-drive-exodus/story-fn6bqvxz-1226022170830)

More than 210,000 people have been evacuated from the 20km zone around the plant. Anyone within a 20-30km radius has been advised to stay indoors, keep their windows closed and not use air conditioners.

Officials say they cannot rule out a meltdown, although everything possible is being done to control the temperature of the radioactive fuel rods.

Radioactive material was being detected in small amounts in Tokyo, 250km south of the Fukushima plant, and Western companies and media agencies were advising their staff to leave the country.
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/15/134552919/stunned-japan-struggles-to-bind-its-wounds

Cars were stretched across the horizon Tuesday as people living near a crippled nuclear plant in northeast Japan ignored a government warning to stay indoors and fled from the site where elevated levels of radiation were escaping after multiple explosions and a partial meltdown of the reactors.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano asked people in a 19-mile radius around the stricken Fukushima-Daiichi facility to "please stay indoors. Please close windows and make your homes airtight." Earlier, the government had ordered the evacuation of the area within 12 miles of the seaside plant.

Edano's advice, which affected about 140,000 people living near the plant, was echoed by Prime Minister Naoto Kan. The prime minister appeared on television Tuesday to deliver a grave update on the situation at the plant, located about 140 miles northeast of Tokyo.

Kan acknowledged that radiation around the plant had spread and "the level seems very high."


So far the Devil's game is unaffected.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-23931816-normal-business-in-tokyo.do

A Barclays Capital banker said: "It's pretty incredible really that after a weekend like we've just had, all trades were settled and the market infrastructure has functioned normally. It just shows what you can achieve when the financial community rallies around. The Bank of Japan's actions have been well received. We're just getting on with it."

Another banker said France had advised its citizens to leave the country but there was no sign yet of a mass exodus of western staff from trading rooms. A JPMorgan spokesman said "It's been pretty much business as usual. Everything seems to be working well in terms of operations."

DMac
15th March 2011, 11:00 AM
I don't know about that.

I can imagine HAARP to be an "earthquake maker", but to pinpoint the nuclear facility is beyond a stretch.

Evne then, I am not conviced that it is an earthquake maker. If you research "Russian blackbox earthquake box frequency" and some other keywords, you will find an article somewhere about how the russian government discovered that they could effect the earths core resonant frequency, but it scared the shit out of them and they stopped. But even after they had turned the box "off", the earth took a few weeks to return to it's normal frequency.

That was back I think in the 70's or something. Man, that was a long time ago when I read that article, and I have never been able to find it again, so best of luck to you.


And FTR, I am not saying it is all true. AFAIC, HAARP is nothing more than a population mood control tool.


I don't know about what was discussed in the 1970's Awoke, but as recently as 1997 we have this proof:

(transcript Presenter: Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen April 28, 1997 8:45 AM EDT
DoD News Briefing: Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen)

DoD News Briefing: Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen (http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674)

snip


Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

mick silver
15th March 2011, 11:04 AM
dam dmac .............................: How prepared is the U.S. Government to deal with (inaudible)?

A: I think we have to really intensify our efforts. That's the reason for the Nunn/Lugar II program. That's the reason why it's a local responsibility, as such, but the Department of Defense is going to be taking the lead as far as supervising the interagency working groups, and to make the assessments as to what needs to be done. So we're going to identify those 120 cities and work with them very closely to make sure that they can prepare themselves for what is likely to be a threat well into the future
Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.

A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

G2Rad
15th March 2011, 11:04 AM
quote: "The agency said among the three, the situation is the severest at the No. 4 reactor "

DMac
15th March 2011, 11:06 AM
dam dmac


The truth is stranger than fiction.

sirgonzo420
15th March 2011, 11:06 AM
I don't know about that.

I can imagine HAARP to be an "earthquake maker", but to pinpoint the nuclear facility is beyond a stretch.

Evne then, I am not conviced that it is an earthquake maker. If you research "Russian blackbox earthquake box frequency" and some other keywords, you will find an article somewhere about how the russian government discovered that they could effect the earths core resonant frequency, but it scared the shit out of them and they stopped. But even after they had turned the box "off", the earth took a few weeks to return to it's normal frequency.

That was back I think in the 70's or something. Man, that was a long time ago when I read that article, and I have never been able to find it again, so best of luck to you.


And FTR, I am not saying it is all true. AFAIC, HAARP is nothing more than a population mood control tool.


I don't know about what was discussed in the 1970's Awoke, but as recently as 1997 we have this proof:

(transcript Presenter: Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen April 28, 1997 8:45 AM EDT
DoD News Briefing: Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen)

DoD News Briefing: Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen (http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674)

snip


Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.



Damn cohanim!

Awoke
15th March 2011, 11:08 AM
The site is blocked, but this might be what I was talking about. I can't say for sure.
It came up under the jewgle search "Russian earthquake machine"

www.tldm.org/news5/eq_alaska.htm

G2Rad
15th March 2011, 11:09 AM
140,000 people ordered to seal themselves indoors

mick silver
15th March 2011, 11:11 AM
i did the same search awoke and could not find anything also

DMac
15th March 2011, 11:11 AM
Damn cohanim!


No kidding, from the link:

Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%27nai_B%27rith).

Cohanim (http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48936742.html)indeed.

mick silver
15th March 2011, 11:13 AM
if that true in that dod report .... we are f in so many ways ... good find dmac

cortez
15th March 2011, 11:18 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Canyon_Power_Plant

made to take 7.9 earthquake

oldmansmith
15th March 2011, 11:21 AM
I was thinking about Diablo Canyon today. Build a nuke plant on a fault line. What could go wrong?

mick silver
15th March 2011, 11:24 AM
i think this has alot of info in it . just what the hell are countrys doing . why are they so hell bound to kill every person in the world ................................... Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.

A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

G2Rad
15th March 2011, 11:38 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-M8jk9UxWkVU/TW8Q4XBl_CI/AAAAAAAAmV0/Ze7dW5dNbMs/s1600/2-2210c.jpg

G2Rad
15th March 2011, 11:39 AM
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4bc4d7df7f8b9a330a520600/nuclear-map.jpg

chad
15th March 2011, 11:43 AM
in wisconsin, we are really smart. we build nuclear reactors 2 feet from lake michigan. that way, if something goes wrong, we can contaminate and ruin the world's largest freshwater supply of water.

G2Rad
15th March 2011, 11:48 AM
below are some numbers and the numbers (if they can be believed)

Immediately after removal from the reactor, the fuel bundle continues to generate about 6% of the heat it did in the reactor – this power level decays to about 2% after a few hours. After a year, it is generating less than 0.1% of the heat it generated in the reactor, or about 100 W per fuel bundle.

In terms of radioactivity, when removed from the reactor, the fuel bundle would deliver a radiation dose of about 50-60 sievert per hour (Sv/h) at a distance of 30 centimetres without shielding. This dose rate is lethal in minutes.

After 100 years, this drops to about 0.3 Sv/h, and after 500 years to 1 millisievert per hour (mSv/h).

Book
15th March 2011, 12:29 PM
Our unborn grandchildren who will pay off our National Debt will solve this Spent Rod Nuke Storage thingie.

Horn
15th March 2011, 12:31 PM
Isn't there a pretty large chance it'll just go Boom, even if you could remove the bundle?

sirgonzo420
15th March 2011, 12:35 PM
Our unborn grandchildren who will pay off our National Debt will solve this Spent Rod Nuke Storage thingie.


If they are even around to do it...

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2010/11/10/PH2010111004077.jpg

MarchHare
15th March 2011, 12:39 PM
Japan radiation leaking "directly" into air: IAEA
By Fredrik Dahl

VIENNA | Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:43pm EDT
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/us-japan-radiation-leaking-directly-into-idUSTRE72E7B220110315


(Reuters) - Japan has told the U.N. nuclear watchdog radioactivity was being released "directly" into the atmosphere from the site of an earthquake-stricken reactor and that it had put out a fire at a spent fuel storage pond there.

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), citing information it had received from Japanese authorities at 0350 GMT, said on Tuesday dose rates of up to 400 millisievert per hour have been reported at the Fukushima power plant site.

It did not give details or comparisons on the radiation level but exposure to over 100 millisieverts a year is a level which can lead to cancer, according to the World Nuclear Association. The Vienna-based IAEA uses the unit to measure doses of radiation received by people.

"The Japanese authorities are saying that there is a possibility that the fire was caused by a hydrogen explosion," the IAEA said in a statement. It later said that the fire had been extinguished at Unit 4 of the plant.

In Japan, authorities warned radiation levels had become "significantly" higher around the nuclear power plant on Tuesday after explosions at two reactors, and the French embassy said a low-level radioactive wind could reach Tokyo within hours.

The IAEA said it had been informed "that the spent fuel storage pond at the Unit 4 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is on fire and radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere."

Researchers say people get about 12 millisieverts from a standard CT (computed tomography) heart scan.

The IAEA said Japanese authorities had also informed it that there had been an explosion at the Unit 2 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, saying it occurred at around 0620 local time in Japan.

dead precedent
15th March 2011, 01:13 PM
in wisconsin, we are really smart. we build nuclear reactors 2 feet from lake michigan. that way, if something goes wrong, we can contaminate and ruin the world's largest freshwater supply of water.


Michigan too!

Large Sarge
15th March 2011, 01:19 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear/

CNN states "japan is very close to chernobyl"

keehah
15th March 2011, 01:26 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake

[AP] In a nationally televised address, Prime Minister Naoto Kan said radiation had seeped from four of the plant's six reactors. The International Atomic Energy Agency said Japanese officials informed it that the fire was in a pool where used nuclear fuel rods are stored and that "radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere." Long after the fire was extinguished, a Japanese official said the pool might still be boiling.

Depending on how bad the blast was at Unit 2, experts said more radioactive materials could seep out. If the water in the storage pond in Unit 4 boils away, the fuel rods could be exposed, leaking more virulent radiation.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/16/3164965.htm?section=justin

Europe's energy commissioner has described Japan's nuclear disaster as an "apocalypse".

"There is talk of an apocalypse and I think the word is particularly well-chosen," Guenther Oettinger said in remarks to the European parliament on Japan's nuclear nightmare.

"Practically everything is out of control. I cannot exclude the worst in the hours and days to come."

Spectrism
15th March 2011, 01:37 PM
Where are those nuclear-neutralizing advanced technology UFOs when we need them?

bellevuebully
15th March 2011, 01:50 PM
Here's some irony....I was just walking through an airlock to work a nuclear fueling machine and I realized a good freind of mine was in Japan doing some training in martial arts. I knew he was going, but I haven't talked to him since last September. I called a mutual friend and apparently he is on the move within Japan, towards the southwest of Tokyo. He is supposed to be getting out of the country within the next 24 hrs. The quick report was he was in a hotel in Tokyo when the shtf and he said it totally scared the crap out of him.....he opened the door and everybody was running aroung in massive chaos. I'll talk to his wife in a few hours and find out a little more. :o

keehah
15th March 2011, 01:51 PM
on Tuesday dose rates of up to 400 millisievert per hour have been reported at the Fukushima power plant site.

I should be able to measure 1 millisievert per hour (or 0.1R/hr) with my NUKalert on Vancouver Island.
If radiation I can detect at the lowest level stayed constant, I'd be at a sickness dose in 41.6 days. A dose rate that can be compared to 10 chest x-rays an hour (from chart below).

At the NUKalert 'get out by this dose' guide, (400 millisievert per hour = 40R/hr) one should only spend 2 1/2 hours on site before your significantly impacting your health (1,000 millisieverts or 100R exposure).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12749444

After the explosions and fire, radiation dosages of up to 400 millisieverts per hour were recorded between reactors three and four at the Fukushima Daiichi site, about 250km north-east of Tokyo.

A single dose of 1,000 millisieverts causes temporary radiation sickness such as nausea and vomiting.

Later, a reading of 0.6 millisieverts (mSv) per hour was made at the plant's main gate, the International Atomic Energy Agency said.
I pray it is Reuters that has made the mistake:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/us-japan-radiation-leaking-directly-into-idUSTRE72E7B220110315

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), citing information it had received from Japanese authorities at 0350 GMT, said on Tuesday dose rates of up to 400 millisievert per hour have been reported at the Fukushima power plant site.

It did not give details or comparisons on the radiation level but exposure to over 100 millisieverts a year is a level which can lead to cancer, according to the World Nuclear Association.

Cobalt
15th March 2011, 01:54 PM
I vote we round up a bunch of TSA agents and send them over there to run a water bucket brigade, they seem to think radiation is no problem and actually appear to enjoy zapping people every day

DMac
15th March 2011, 01:55 PM
From here:
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78352.html


Due to high radiation levels at the No. 4 reactor, workers on Tuesday were unable to prepare for the pouring of water into the troubled pool. Difficult conditions have led the utility to evacuate around 730 of the 800 workers from the site, according to TEPCO.

The firm said its workers were only able to remain in the central control rooms at the Fukushima plant for 10 minutes to avoid exposure to excessive radiation levels. They have retreated to a remote site to monitor data on the reactors, it added.

Large Sarge
15th March 2011, 01:55 PM
I vote we round up a bunch of TSA agents and send them over there to run a water bucket brigade, they seem to think radiation is no problem and actually appear to enjoy zapping people every day


LOL

great idea

osoab
15th March 2011, 01:57 PM
I vote we round up a bunch of TSA agents and send them over there to run a water bucket brigade, they seem to think radiation is no problem and actually appear to enjoy zapping people every day


We have a few folks on Capitol Hill that could use a new line of work too.

Large Sarge
15th March 2011, 02:04 PM
the govt is blocking the sale of KI

http://www.prisonplanet.com/u-s-government-blocking-americans-from-obtaining-potassium-iodide.html

and my guess is that we will never get any real data on "fallout"

you are all on your own folks (most here know that already)

Horn
15th March 2011, 02:05 PM
on Tuesday dose rates of up to 400 millisievert per hour have been reported at the Fukushima power plant site.

I should be able to measure 1 millisievert per hour (or 0.1R/hr) with my NUKalert on Vancouver Island.

At the NUKalert 'get out by this dose' guide, (400 millisievert per hour = 40R/hr) one should only spend 2 1/2 hours on site before your significantly impacting your health (100R exposure).


Is this with or without the advanced radiation suit upgrade?

Serpo
15th March 2011, 02:08 PM
Their biggest mistake after 2.30min in to vid was not pouring in cement ,instead they used sea water to try and save reactor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeoVJgTtd6M

Book
15th March 2011, 02:10 PM
Due to high radiation levels at the No. 4 reactor, workers on Tuesday were unable to prepare for the pouring of water into the troubled pool. Difficult conditions have led the utility to evacuate around 730 of the 800 workers from the site, according to TEPCO.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_T-J2hjN2HaE/RiLibyqNNfI/AAAAAAAAAWY/9SvS5qxS6Nk/s320/normal_hardcore-japanese-gay.jpg

The remaining 70 need their head examined.

Spectrism
15th March 2011, 02:13 PM
Due to high radiation levels at the No. 4 reactor, workers on Tuesday were unable to prepare for the pouring of water into the troubled pool. Difficult conditions have led the utility to evacuate around 730 of the 800 workers from the site, according to TEPCO.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_T-J2hjN2HaE/RiLibyqNNfI/AAAAAAAAAWY/9SvS5qxS6Nk/s320/normal_hardcore-japanese-gay.jpg

The remaining 70 need their head examined.



oooooo.... now I know why Japan is being wiped out. I just takes two to tango and the fickled finger of fate has already had enough.

osoab
15th March 2011, 02:14 PM
DigitalGlobe's Satellite Imagery Analysis Of Fukushima (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/digitalglobes-satellite-imagery-analysis-fukushima)

Decent images of the reactor tops. Not much left of #3 building.

osoab
15th March 2011, 02:19 PM
Their biggest mistake after 2.30min in to vid was not pouring in cement ,instead they used sea water to try and save reactor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeoVJgTtd6M


Where are the getting the crete from and how are they going to get it there. When they poured crete on Chernobyl it was weeks after the explosion. Concrete of that scale would add heat to the pile. And concrete will blow up when exposed to temps of a common oxy/acetylene torch. Granted the building materials at a nuclear plant are probably stronger than your average concrete.

osoab
15th March 2011, 02:23 PM
Radiation leak feared at spent fuel pool, water injection ordered (http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78352.html)

Only part of the article.



Due to high radiation levels at the No. 4 reactor, workers on Tuesday were unable to prepare for the pouring of water into the troubled pool. Difficult conditions have led the utility to evacuate around 730 of the 800 workers from the site, according to TEPCO.

The firm said its workers were only able to remain in the central control rooms at the Fukushima plant for 10 minutes to avoid exposure to excessive radiation levels. They have retreated to a remote site to monitor data on the reactors, it added.

At 6:14 a.m. on Tuesday, a blast occurred at the No. 4 reactor and created two square-shaped holes about 8 by 8 meters in the walls of the building that houses the reactor. At 9:38 a.m., a fire broke out there and smoke billowed from the holes.

keehah
15th March 2011, 02:26 PM
From Book's link in another thread:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/japan-update-it%E2%80%99s-much-worse-it-looks

Most major companies, including Toyota, Nissan, Honda, and Sony have shut down all domestic production. Management want to tally death tolls, damage to plant and equipment, and conduct emergency safety reviews. In any case, most employees are unable to get to work because of the complete shutdown of the rail system. Tokyo’s subway system is closed, stranding 25 million residents there.

Electric power shortages are a huge problem. The country’s eight Northern prefectures are now subject to three hour daily black outs and power rationing, including Tokyo. That has closed all manufacturing activity in the most economically vital part of the country.

Panic buying has emptied out every store in the major cities of all food and bottled water. Gas stations were cleaned out of all supplies and reserves, since much of Japan’s refining capacity has been closed. There are 20,000 expatriates waiting at Tokyo’s Narita airport as foreign companies evacuate staff to nearby financial centers in Hong Kong and Singapore. Airlines are diverting aircraft and laying on extra flights to accommodate the traffic.

Sailboat or bunker time in Tokyo.

Large Sarge
15th March 2011, 02:33 PM
so essentially 25 million people are stranded in tokyo, a 1 hour drive distance, from all that radiation

osoab
15th March 2011, 02:38 PM
This is something that may play into local areas here in the states.

Mitsubishi plant waits for Japanese supplier news (http://www.pantagraph.com/news/state-and-regional/illinois/article_a9dd343c-c3bd-566d-b4c3-938ed561ca88.html)


Officials at the Mitsubishi Motors North America plant in central Illinois say they have enough parts to keep making cars for another two weeks but they're awaiting word on whether Japan's massive earthquake and tsunami could lead to production disruptions.

Mitsubishi Motors North America spokesman Dan Irvin told The (Bloomington) Pantagraph that the production hubs of the firm's parent company, Tokyo-based Mitsubishi Motors, weren't affected by the disaster.

Unemployment spike due to Japan Quake, Tsunami, and Nuclear Issues?

Horn
15th March 2011, 02:42 PM
http://www.usgs.gov/blogs/features/files/2011/03/japan_march.jpg

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_big.php

Spectrism
15th March 2011, 02:42 PM
so essentially 25 million people are stranded in tokyo, a 1 hour drive distance from all that radiation




And maybe a one hour delivery of death sprinkles with the wind change. It is not safe to be anywhere on Japan. It is foolhardy for anyone to stay there within 200 miles because of potential wind changes. And when the spent rods begine to burn, it is going to be a cascading disaster.

It just keeps getting better.

G2Rad
15th March 2011, 02:43 PM
good news

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said that an oil leak in a cooling water pump at Unit 4 was the cause of a fire that burned for approximately 140 minutes. The fire was not in the spent fuel pool, as reported by several media outlets. Unit 4 was in a 105-day-long maintenance outage at the time of the earthquake and there is no fuel in the reactor.

DMac
15th March 2011, 02:46 PM
You folks saw that the Jap government has instituted Article 15?

That might be the worst news yet.

Article 15 in Japan means no news is allowed without being cleared by the top government goons.