What if the Jap reactor Blows??? what will be the effect on the Western USA???

[keehah]

good news

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said that an oil leak in a cooling water pump at Unit 4 was the cause of a fire that burned for approximately 140 minutes. The fire was not in the spent fuel pool, as reported by several media outlets. Unit 4 was in a 105-day-long maintenance outage at the time of the earthquake and there is no fuel in the reactor.

bad news

There is early chatter on the internet right now that spent fuel rods were stored in the 'rafters' of the containment vessels that exploded.

[mamboni]

Due to high radiation levels at the No. 4 reactor, workers on Tuesday were unable to prepare for the pouring of water into the troubled pool. Difficult conditions have led the utility to evacuate around 730 of the 800 workers from the site, according to TEPCO.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_T-J2hjN2HaE/RiLibyqNNfI/AAAAAAAAAWY/9SvS5qxS6Nk/s320/normal_hardcore-japanese-gay.jpg

The remaining 70 need their head examined.


Rather gay non-sequitar - I'm not surprised. :oo-->

[JohnQPublic]

good news

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said that an oil leak in a cooling water pump at Unit 4 was the cause of a fire that burned for approximately 140 minutes. The fire was not in the spent fuel pool, as reported by several media outlets. Unit 4 was in a 105-day-long maintenance outage at the time of the earthquake and there is no fuel in the reactor.

bad news

There is early chatter on the internet right now that spent fuel rods were stored in the 'rafters' of the containment vessels that exploded.


Not sure that makes sense. Usually, spent rods need to be stored in deep circulating water pools.

[keehah]

I never said the rafter storage was dry. ;)
Perhaps not above, but still next to the reactor and inside the outer containment vessel.
It seems to make sense for the people who run nuclear power plants.

Example:
http://library.thinkquest.org/17940/texts/nuclear_waste_storage/nuclear_waste_storage.html

When the spent fuel rods are removed from the reactor core, they are extremely hot and must be cooled down. Most nuclear power plants have a temporary storage pool next to the reactor. The spent rods are placed in the pool, where they can cool down. The pool is not filled with ordinary water but with boric acid, which helps to absorb some of the radiation given off by the radioactive nuclei inside the spent rods. The spent fuel rods are supposed to stay in the pool for only about 6 months, but, because there is no permanent storage site, they often stay there for years. Many power plants have had to enlarge their pools to make room for more rods. As pools fill, there are major problems. If the rods are placed too close together, the remaining nuclear fuel could go critical, starting a nuclear chain reaction. Thus, the rods must be monitored and it is very important that the pools do not become too crowded. Also, as an additional safety measure, neutron-absorbing materials similar to those used in control rods are placed amongst the fuel rods. Permanent disposal of the spent fuel is becoming more important as the pools become more and more crowded.

[Horn]

good news

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said that an oil leak in a cooling water pump at Unit 4 was the cause of a fire that burned for approximately 140 minutes. The fire was not in the spent fuel pool, as reported by several media outlets. Unit 4 was in a 105-day-long maintenance outage at the time of the earthquake and there is no fuel in the reactor.

bad news

There is early chatter on the internet right now that spent fuel rods were stored in the 'rafters' of the containment vessels that exploded.


Not sure that makes sense. Usually, spent rods need to be stored in deep circulating water pools.


If recent past history is any indication, everything at the site will go fully critical in due time.

[osoab]

Doesn't look like #4 is going so well, another fire. I have also seen reports of 2 workers that are missing who were working near #4.

URGENT: Fire breaks out again at Fukushima's No. 4 reactor: TEPCO (http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78378.html)


A fire broke out again early Wednesday at the troubled No. 4 reactor of the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said.

Around 5:45 a.m., a worker at the plant saw a fire at the reactor's building, where an apparent hydrogen explosion caused a fire Tuesday morning in the wake of last Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake.

[Book]

Two workers are missing after Tuesday's explosion at one of the reactors at a crippled Japanese nuclear plant, the country's nuclear safety agency said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/us-japan-quake-roof-idUSTRE72E8H920110315

A fire broke out again early Wednesday at the troubled No. 4 reactor of the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said.

Around 5:45 a.m., a worker at the plant saw a fire at the reactor's building, where an apparent hydrogen explosion caused a fire Tuesday morning in the wake of last Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake.

[vacuum]

If there isn't any fuel in reactor 4, why are there hydrogen explosions?

[DMac]

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78242.html

Status of quake-stricken reactors at Fukushima nuclear power plants

TOKYO, March 15, Kyodo

The following is the known status as of Tuesday evening for each of the six reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant and the four reactors at the Fukushima No. 2 plant, both in Fukushima Prefecture, crippled by Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake and ensuing tsunami.

Fukushima No. 1

-- Reactor No. 1 - Cooling failure, partial melting of core, vapor vented, hydrogen explosion, seawater pumped in.

-- Reactor No. 2 - Cooling failure, seawater pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, damage to containment system, potential meltdown feared.

-- Reactor No. 3 - Cooling failure, partial melting of core feared, vapor vented, seawater pumped in, hydrogen explosion, high-level radiation measured nearby.

-- Reactor No. 4 - Under maintenance when quake struck, fire caused possibly by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, pool water levels feared receding.

-- Reactor No. 5 - Under maintenance when quake struck.

-- Reactor No. 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck.

Fukushima No. 2

-- Reactor No. 1 - Cooling failure, then cold shutdown.

-- Reactor No. 2 - Cooling failure, then cold shutdown.

-- Reactor No. 3 - Cold shutdown.

-- Reactor No. 4 - Cooling failure, then cold shutdown.

==Kyodo

[keehah]

If there isn't any fuel in reactor 4, why are there hydrogen explosions?

A it probably had stored fuel and
B "hydrogen explosion" is less about describing what is happening and more of a Choix du jour euphemism for nuclear explosion.

[DMac]

http://i.imgur.com/ybbPU.png

[chad]

http://i.imgur.com/ybbPU.png


i haven't been following this. where are we? full body ct scan?

[DMac]

http://i.imgur.com/ybbPU.png


i haven't been following this. where are we? full body ct scan?


We are fine. The millions living in Japan, however, I have no idea. I haven't looked at the live geiger counters since yesterday.

[DMac]

http://isis-online.org/isis-reports/detail/isis-statement-on-events-at-fukushima-daiichi-nuclear-site-in-japan/

ISIS Reports
ISIS Statement on Events at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Site in Japan

March 15, 2011

ISIS assesses that the situation at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has worsened considerably. The explosion in the Unit 2 reactor, the third so far, and the fire in the spent fuel pond in the reactor building for Unit 4*1 means that this accident can no longer be viewed as a level 4 on the International Nuclear and Radiological Events (INES) scale that ranks events from 1 to 7. A level 4 incident involves only local radiological consequences. This event is now closer to a level 6, and it may unfortunately reach a level 7.

A level 6 event means that consequences are broader and countermeasures are needed to deal with the radioactive contamination. A level 7 event would constitute a larger release of radioactive material, and would require further extended countermeasures. The international community should increase assistance to Japan to both contain the emergency at the reactors and to address the wider contamination. We need to find a solution together.

*1 “Japanese authorities also today informed the IAEA at 04:50 CET that the spent fuel storage pond at the Unit 4 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is on fire and radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere.” 5:15 update: http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html

[Book]

We are fine. The millions living in Japan, however, I have no idea.



If we can believe our own eyes they are screwed. Nobody wants to say it out loud but there it is.

[DMac]

From Der Spiegel, radiation progression so far:

http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-191816-galleryV9-nhjp.gif

[nunaem]

:-[

The Japs are the 'Aryans of the East', and they refused to commit seppuku by taking in millions of foreigners. Makes me wonder if this thing was concerted.

FYI, I read Reactor #4 contains thousands of spent fuel rods ON TOP OF the reactor. WTF were they thinking?

[Cobalt]

FYI, I read Reactor #4 contains thousands of spent fuel rods ON TOP OF the reactor. WTF were they thinking?


You can thank GE for that design

[Publico Pro Se]

Sort of off topic - but related ... Are we at the panic sex threat level yet? Because the panic masturbation is wearing out my pitching arm.

[keehah]

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78374.html

Fukushima nuke plant situation 'worsened considerably': think tank
WASHINGTON, March 15, Kyodo

The situation at the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant in northeastern Japan ''has worsened considerably,'' the Institute for Science and International Security said in a statement released Tuesday.

Referring to fresh explosions that occurred earlier in the day at the site and problems in a pool storing spent nuclear fuel rods, the Washington-based think tank said, ''This accident can no longer be viewed as a level 4 on the International Nuclear and Radiological Events scale that ranks events from 1 to 7.''

Noting that a level 4 incident involves ''only local radiological consequences,'' it said the ongoing crisis is ''now closer to a level 6, and it may unfortunately reach a level 7'' -- a worst case scenario with extensive health and environmental consequences.

''The international community should increase assistance to Japan to both contain the emergency at the reactors and to address the wider contamination. We need to find a solution together,'' it said.
___________

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fukushima-mark-nuclear-reactor-design-caused-ge-scientist/story?id=13141287

Thirty-five years ago, Dale G. Bridenbaugh and two of his colleagues at General Electric resigned from their jobs after becoming increasingly convinced that the nuclear reactor design they were reviewing -- the Mark 1 -- was so flawed it could lead to a devastating accident.

[osoab]

good news

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said that an oil leak in a cooling water pump at Unit 4 was the cause of a fire that burned for approximately 140 minutes. The fire was not in the spent fuel pool, as reported by several media outlets. Unit 4 was in a 105-day-long maintenance outage at the time of the earthquake and there is no fuel in the reactor.

bad news

There is early chatter on the internet right now that spent fuel rods were stored in the 'rafters' of the containment vessels that exploded.


Cut away of the plant. Notice the spent fuel pools above the reactor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/richardcranium/fukashima.jpg

[Horn]

That thing melts down so close to the coast there, the adjacent sea could be poisoned for decades.

[Large Sarge]

just saw an interview, and the guy said "reactors 5 and 6 are having issues, the water is way to warm"

[Spectrism]

That thing melts down so close to the coast there, the adjacent sea could be poisoned for decades.


Maybe this is how godzilla is formed in the ocean.... a giant mutant sea monster.

[PatColo]

floridaoilspilllaw.com (http://www.floridaoilspilllaw.com/) is filled with stories implying how bad the Japan nuke meltdown situation really is, and europebusines.blogspot.com (http://europebusines.blogspot.com/) is also giving the unfolding "real story" a lot of space.

[mick silver]

i never thought i would live to see things go so bad so fast . to me it look like this is going to end bad for every person on the earth . i just dont see how they can turn this around . my hat gos off to the guys that are still there working on stopping this

[Spectrism]

What will be interesting to learn is HOW MANY rods were being stored in the UNCONTAINED pools at reactor 4.

This one may be a real longterm bugger.... but I read a report that one of the containment vessesl ruptured... and just heard that speculation live. They say it appears there is vapor coming out from a rupture point (I think #3).

Friends, this is all fuggled up bad.

[DMac]

What will be interesting to learn is HOW MANY rods were being stored in the UNCONTAINED pools at reactor 4.

This one may be a real longterm bugger.... but I read a report that one of the containment vessesl ruptured... and just heard that speculation live. They say it appears there is vapor coming out from a rupture point (I think #3).

Friends, this is all fuggled up bad.


ZH is claiming there is smoke now billowing out of reactor 4

NHK Shows Live Coverage Of Smoke Billowing From Fukushima Reactor 4 (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/nhk-shows-live-coverage-smoke-billowing-fukushima-reactor-4)

[vacuum]

Radioactive steam/water with cesium and iodine is bad but ok. But burning fuel rods? Isn't that like raw, open release of plutonium and uranium? Isn't 1 microgram of plutonium enough to kill someone, and its half-life is like 250,000 years?

[DMac]

Radioactive steam/water with cesium and iodine is bad but ok. But burning fuel rods? Isn't that like raw, open release of plutonium and uranium? Isn't 1 microgram of plutonium enough to kill someone, and its half-life is like 250,000 years?


(others please correct me if I'm wrong)

I think only reactor 3 is the one containing plutonium, reactors 1,2 and 4 contain the cesium/iodine.

[platinumdude]

EPA deploys more radiation monitors to the West Coast

As public concern grows about radiation from Japan possibly drifting to the West Coast of the United States, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on Tuesday announced that it will deploy more electronic monitors that measure radiation levels in the air.

The monitors of gamma radiation and radioactive particles, will be set up in "parts of the Western U.S. and U.S. territories," the agency said in a statement.

EPA officials, however, refused to answer questions or make staff members available to explain the exact location and number of monitors, or the levels of radiation, if any, being recorded at existing monitors in California. Margot Perez-Sullivan, a spokeswoman at EPA regional headquarters in San Francisco, said the agency's written statement would stand on its own.

Critics said the public needs more information.

"It's disappointing," said Bill Magavern, director of Sierra Club California. "I have a strong suspicion that EPA is being silenced by those in the federal government who don't want anything to stand in the way of a nuclear power expansion in this country, heavily subsidized by taxpayer money."

The EPA has 124 air monitors, which provide hourly readings, already in place in its "Rad-Net" system to measure radiation, including 12 in California and two in Hawaii. One is located in San Francisco, on the roof of the Bay Area Air Quality Management District. Others are located in San Jose, Sacramento, Fresno, Los Angeles and San Diego. The EPA also has 40 mobile monitors, some of which are now being deployed. The agency clarified that some would go to Guam, Hawaii and Alaska, but did not respond to questions about California.

"As the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has said, we do not expect to see radiation at harmful levels reaching the U.S. from damaged Japanese nuclear power plants," the EPA statement said.

Experts on Monday told the Mercury News that high levels of radiation are unlikely to hit California because Japan is 5,000 miles away. However, studies from the California Air Resources Board have found that coal dust and other pollution from China regularly reach the state.

Most experts said that if the Japanese reactors experience a complete Chernobyl-type explosion, fire and release of nuclear material, some could reach California, but probably in very low amounts.

Meanwhile, another branch of the Obama administration generated confusion Tuesday. During a Northern California visit U.S. Surgeon General Regina Benjamin was asked by a TV reporter whether California residents who are stocking up on potassium iodide are being extreme.

Potassium iodide blocks the thyroid from absorbing radioactive material. It is often used by people who are exposed to radiation.

"It's a precaution," she said. "You mean stocking up here? I haven't heard that. But it's a precaution, yeah."

Benjamin toured Mills-Peninsula Medical Center in Burlingame and San Mateo Medical Center to discuss trends in electronic medical records and minority health.

State and county health officials in California have told residents not to take potassium iodide because the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has said that U.S. residents are not at risk from the disaster, and some people are allergic to the medicine.

After the surgeon general's remarks were highlighted by the Drudge Report, a website that receives 36 million hits a day, with the headline "Surgeon General: Get Iodide," the Mercury News asked for clarification.

"She commented that it is always important to be prepared, however she wouldn't recommend that anyone go out and purchase it for themselves at this time," said surgeon general spokeswoman Dori Salcido.

Cities across the West reported runs on potassium iodide at stores. Some websites selling geiger counters also said they had sold out.

"I called six stores today in Santa Clara County," said Charlie Bullock of Los Gatos. "You can't find it anywhere. Hopefully if any radiation gets over the ocean, it will disperse. But if it doesn't, I'm afraid people in California will be caught off guard."

[nunaem]

They pulled out all workers. Mission FUBAR.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/latest-updates-on-japans-nuclear-crisis-and-earthquake-aftermath-2/#chief-cabinet-secretarys-news-conference

[DMac]

They pulled out all workers. Mission FUBAR.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/latest-updates-on-japans-nuclear-crisis-and-earthquake-aftermath-2/#chief-cabinet-secretarys-news-conference


Shit.

[mick silver]

hell it maybe time for me to sill up my bunker

[Antonio]

So far I think I`ve heard everything, except the plain truth which is how many fuckin counts per minute they register at the plant.
I hear some "sieverts" crap but I`m used to microroentgens or counts per minute. From how bad the plant looks right now I suspect it probably radiates as badly...and it looks exactly as Chernobyl.

[Spectrism]

They pulled out all workers. Mission FUBAR.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/latest-updates-on-japans-nuclear-crisis-and-earthquake-aftermath-2/#chief-cabinet-secretarys-news-conference


shit.


I saw this coming on Saturday. 3 days ago the signs were all there. But even then I had no idea there were MANY HUNDREDS of radioactive rods sitting in cooling pools OUTSIDE the CONTAINMENT area.

Yeah- they probably will shut down the stock exchanges over this one.

[platinumdude]

So, Those who drink water out of a well will have a big advantage. Harder to contaminate.

[nunaem]

So, Those who drink water out of a well will have a big advantage. Harder to contaminate.


Yes, as long as you don't live in Japan and don't use the aquifer that the fuel rods melted into.

[keehah]

RT Meltdown scenario: 'Chance nuke fuel explodes, gets into air'
Jan Haverkamo (GreenPeace)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Y5-WA7H8g
http://www.hubberts-arms.org/index.php/topic,5329.30.html

At 3:10 or so, he says "What is certain is that the spread of this material in the air would not go as far as that we've seen with Chernobyl. The reason for that is that it will not be boosted as high in the air because there is no graphite in it like in the Chernobyl reactor. That means that most of the radioactivity would fall nearer to the nuclear power station, but there it would create larger havoc than we've seen in the case of Chernobyl..."

[ShortJohnSilver]

Here is the thing - after the first 24 hours, they KNEW with certainty what was going to happen... so why didn't they tell the truth from the beginning? To answer that question tells you what the endgame is... the place will be destroyed the Jap govt will nationalize TEPCO and the bankers will get away scott free.

[nunaem]

Close-up pic of the damage:

http://epcan.us/jlab-ep/s/ep88140.jpg

[Santa]

So the facility is basically abandoned, just sitting there seething and spewing dangerous levels of radiation...

But for how long? And what happens when the wind changes direction toward Tokyo and 42 million people?

[bellevuebully]

So far I think I`ve heard everything, except the plain truth which is how many fuckin counts per minute they register at the plant.
I hear some "sieverts" crap but I`m used to microroentgens or counts per minute. From how bad the plant looks right now I suspect it probably radiates as badly...and it looks exactly as Chernobyl.


Purposeful muddying of the waters. Lousy info from day one. Were is PINO, WANO, IAEA and other international regulators to provide some accurate details. Instead the public gets Anderson Cooper learning nuclear physics on the fly and pretending he's studied it his whole life. MSM....fail....again.

[bellevuebully]

So the facility is basically abandoned, just sitting there seething and spewing dangerous levels of radiation...

But for how long? And what happens when the wind changes direction toward Tokyo and 42 million people?


Circa Sunday.

The thing is, as mentioned numerous times, there is no reason why accurate numbers on the hazards could not be provided. X amount of fuel at X amount of capacity at worse case scenario = Y. But instead, you will get Lie times Lie plus Lie = Don't worry, be happy.

[DMac]

So the facility is basically abandoned, just sitting there seething and spewing dangerous levels of radiation...

But for how long? And what happens when the wind changes direction toward Tokyo and 42 million people?


Circa Sunday.

The thing is, as mentioned numerous times, there is no reason why accurate numbers on the hazards could not be provided. X amount of fuel at X amount of capacity at worse case scenario = Y. But instead, you will get Lie times Lie plus Lie = Don't worry, be happy.


Because things are probably much worse than is being communicated to the global public. This is why I think Article 15 was instituted by the Japanese gov.

[bellevuebully]

So the facility is basically abandoned, just sitting there seething and spewing dangerous levels of radiation...

But for how long? And what happens when the wind changes direction toward Tokyo and 42 million people?


Circa Sunday.

The thing is, as mentioned numerous times, there is no reason why accurate numbers on the hazards could not be provided. X amount of fuel at X amount of capacity at worse case scenario = Y. But instead, you will get Lie times Lie plus Lie = Don't worry, be happy.


Because things are probably much worse than is being communicated to the global public. This is why I think Article 15 was instituted by the Japanese gov.


It's also because governments, like men, have an affinity to lie and deceive. No one seems to know how the truth will affect people....it hasn't been tried for some time.

[keehah]

CBC: Gordon Campbell steps down as MLA (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/03/15/bc-campbell-resign.html)

Mar 15, 2011 Former B.C. premier Gordon Campbell has officially resigned his seat in the riding of Vancouver-Point Grey..

Campbell also has not revealed his plans for the future, saying only that he intends to remain in public life, but not in politics. There have been rumours he is seeking a diplomatic posting of some sort, but he has only said he is waiting see what opportunities arise.

“It has been an honour to serve the people of British Columbia as an MLA, as the Leader of the Opposition and as Premier,” said Campbell.
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2011/03/15/li-bc-110315-cp-campbell-gordon-hayward.jpghttp://www.londonnet.co.uk/ahoy/196/graphics/topleft.jpg
______

Calm down. Japan's nuclear crisis poses no risk to B.C (http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Calm+down+Japan+nuclear+crisis+poses+risk/4447567/story.html#ixzz1Gmjxl1Ws)
By Stephen Hume, Vancouver Sun March 16, 2011

[G2Rad]

TIPCO news release - probability of spontaneous chain reaction is not zerro

I guess they are not telling us all they know

[Cobalt]

What will be interesting to learn is HOW MANY rods were being stored in the UNCONTAINED pools at reactor 4.

This one may be a real longterm bugger.... but I read a report that one of the containment vessesl ruptured... and just heard that speculation live. They say it appears there is vapor coming out from a rupture point (I think #3).

Friends, this is all fuggled up bad.


#3 reactor uses MOX fuel and it is far worse then the standard enriched Uranium

I ran into this earlier today that might give you an answer as to how many rods are there

The Fukushima Daiichi plant has seven pools for spent fuel rods. Six of these are (or were) located at the top of six reactor buildings. One “common pool” is at ground level in a separate building. Each “reactor top” pool holds 3450 fuel rod assemblies. The common pool holds 6291 fuel rod assemblies. [The common pool has windows on one wall which were almost certainly destroyed by the tsunami.] Each assembly holds sixty-three fuel rods. This means the Fukushima Daiichi plant may contain over 600,000 spent fuel rods.
http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/2011/03/14/nuke-engineer-fuel-rod-fire-at-stricken-reactor-would-be-like-chernobyl-on-steroids/

[mamboni]

What will be interesting to learn is HOW MANY rods were being stored in the UNCONTAINED pools at reactor 4.

This one may be a real longterm bugger.... but I read a report that one of the containment vessesl ruptured... and just heard that speculation live. They say it appears there is vapor coming out from a rupture point (I think #3).

Friends, this is all fuggled up bad.


#3 reactor uses MOX fuel and it is far worse then the standard enriched Uranium

I ran into this earlier today that might give you an answer as to how many rods are there

The Fukushima Daiichi plant has seven pools for spent fuel rods. Six of these are (or were) located at the top of six reactor buildings. One “common pool” is at ground level in a separate building. Each “reactor top” pool holds 3450 fuel rod assemblies. The common pool holds 6291 fuel rod assemblies. [The common pool has windows on one wall which were almost certainly destroyed by the tsunami.] Each assembly holds sixty-three fuel rods. This means the Fukushima Daiichi plant may contain over 600,000 spent fuel rods.
http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/2011/03/14/nuke-engineer-fuel-rod-fire-at-stricken-reactor-would-be-like-chernobyl-on-steroids/


This equates to thousands of pounds of plutonium and uranium. This quantity simply cannot be left to chance and abandoned – the potential contamination to the biosphere is massive and virtually permanent. This is an international emergency. If I had the power, I would immediately deploy every B-52 in the arsenal and load them up with as much liquid nitrogen as they could carry and start blanketing the entire complex. Liquid nitrogen would accomplish two things: it would create a massive heat sink, and it would force all oxygen out of the area and shut down any combustion. Granted the melted core might continue to burrow underground. But at least the radioactive contamination would be limited to the Japanese island. Every means must be exercised to prevent aerosolization of this massive quantity of plutonium.

[platinumdude]

With all of this chaos, I hope the Libyans don't try to sneak in and steal the plutonium.

[Olmstein]

This equates to thousands of pounds of plutonium and uranium. This quantity simply cannot be left to chance and abandoned – the potential contamination to the biosphere is massive and virtually permanent. This is an international emergency. If I had the power, I would immediately deploy every B-52 in the arsenal and load them up with as much liquid nitrogen as they could carry and start blanketing the entire complex. Liquid nitrogen would accomplish two things: it would create a massive heat sink, and it would force all oxygen out of the area and shut down any combustion. Granted the melted core might continue to burrow underground. But at least the radioactive contamination would be limited to the Japanese island. Every means must be exercised to prevent aerosolization of this massive quantity of plutonium.


I agree. Time to start a massive airlift using all available military and commercial aircraft. Start dumping sand and concrete from the air until the whole facility is entombed, regardless of what the Japanese government or TEPCO think.

[Antonio]

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/15/japan-nuclear-reactor-storage-pool-may-be-boiling/?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%7C50154

Surrender.

[Cobalt]

Fuck it just gets more stupid with each moment

Radioactivity forecast system down
A computer system that forecasts the spread of radioactivity has not been working due to malfunctioning monitoring posts around a troubled nuclear power plant in quake-hit Fukushima Prefecture.

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says it does not know when the system will be back in operation.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_16.html

[Cobalt]

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/15/japan-nuclear-reactor-storage-pool-may-be-boiling/?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%7C50154

Surrender.


The workers cannot carry out even minimal work at the plant now," Edano said. "Because of the radiation risk we are on standby," he said.


Fuck that, drag those Fat Fucking CEO's out from under their damn desk and suit the fuckers up, they have been cashing in long enough and it's time they earn their keep.

[Antonio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obHOBHDNlbs

[nunaem]

Is it just me or does Doom cause the munchies? I've been eating non-stop since the earthquake happened.

[mightymanx]

Is it just me or does Doom cause the munchies? I've been eating non-stop since the earthquake happened.


Do you eat popcorn at the movies?

Same thing with the way this is being "reported".

[Antonio]

10.03.11 + 11.09.01=21.12.12

[nunaem]

Is it just me or does Doom cause the munchies? I've been eating non-stop since the earthquake happened.


Do you eat popcorn at the movies?

Same thing with the way this is being "reported".


I was thinking it could be a survival mechanism to store calories in case of Doom. But your theory is more likely.



10.03.11 + 11.09.01=21.12.12


What happened on 3/10? I suppose it was still 3/10 in some parts of the world when the quake happened...

[Antonio]

Is it just me or does Doom cause the munchies? I've been eating non-stop since the earthquake happened.


Do you eat popcorn at the movies?

Same thing with the way this is being "reported".


I was thinking it could be a survival mechanism to store calories in case of Doom. But your theory is more likely.



10.03.11 + 11.09.01=21.12.12


What happened on 3/10? I suppose it was still 3/10 in some parts of the world when the quake happened...


Just caught this numerology thing on a Russian site. They also mention that Joe Vialls mysteriously died after he uncovered the artificial nature of the 2004 Asian quake:
http://www.whale.to/b/vialls2.html

[nunaem]

Just caught this numerology thing on a Russian site. They also mention that Joe Vialls mysteriously died after he uncovered the artificial nature of the 2004 Asian quake:
http://www.whale.to/b/vialls2.html


I caught it a few days ago: http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/the-math/msg197958/#msg197958

But if you use 3/11 instead of 3/10 you get 12/22/12, which adds up to 46. 46 supposedly has occult significance.

[Large Sarge]

1000's of tons of spent fuel rods, as of March 2010 (see pg 4), grim news here

http://www.nirs.org/reactorwatch/accidents/6-1_powerpoint.pdf

[Neuro]

1000's of tons of spent fuel rods, as of March 2010 (see pg 4), grim news here

http://www.nirs.org/reactorwatch/accidents/6-1_powerpoint.pdf
FUCK! More than 1700 tons of Uranium at the Fukushima reactors, which at least 80% would be in the spent fuel pools. Last I read they had only 50 people working there, and now they pulled all of them out. They are killing Japan, because it is not safe to work there! I have no doubt they could find volunteers, even for a certain death mission if they really wanted to! This is just incredible! Damn!

[Antonio]

IMHO we`ll start seeing a lot of nefarious details being uncovered in the coming months and years, details about possible
weapons-grade plutonium being manufactured by the "peaceful" Japanese, ignoring specific warnings from Russian seismologists about 2011 quake in that area. Russia has built the world`s 1st commercial nuke reactor and has dealt with the worst nuke disaster so far.

I think Russia will be at the forefront of this investigation.We are watching mostly RT right now, aren`t we?
I`m scanning huge Russian articles from the top scientists, seems like it is debatable whether Japan will be inhabitable in the near future...

It is ironic that Japan doesn`t have kamikaze today and is abandoning what is potentially the largest nuke leak ever.
Russia had kamikaze as late as 1986.

[Awoke]

seems like it is debatable whether Japan will be inhabitable in the near future...


My thoughts exactly.

[Neuro]

IMHO we`ll start seeing a lot of nefarious details being uncovered in the coming months and years, details about possible
weapons-grade plutonium being manufactured by the "peaceful" Japanese, ignoring specific warnings from Russian seismologists about 2011 quake in that area. Russia has built the world`s 1st commercial nuke reactor and has dealt with the worst nuke disaster so far.

I think Russia will be at the forefront of this investigation.We are watching mostly RT right now, aren`t we?
I`m scanning huge Russian articles from the top scientists, seems like it is debatable whether Japan will be inhabitable in the near future...

It is ironic that Japan doesn`t have kamikaze today and is abandoning what is potentially the largest nuke leak ever.
Russia had kamikaze as late as 1986.
Japanese leadership is weak, more concerned about individual workers safety than the life of the entire Japanese population!

[bellevuebully]

IMHO we`ll start seeing a lot of nefarious details being uncovered in the coming months and years, details about possible
weapons-grade plutonium being manufactured by the "peaceful" Japanese, ignoring specific warnings from Russian seismologists about 2011 quake in that area. Russia has built the world`s 1st commercial nuke reactor and has dealt with the worst nuke disaster so far.

I think Russia will be at the forefront of this investigation.We are watching mostly RT right now, aren`t we?
I`m scanning huge Russian articles from the top scientists, seems like it is debatable whether Japan will be inhabitable in the near future...

It is ironic that Japan doesn`t have kamikaze today and is abandoning what is potentially the largest nuke leak ever.
Russia had kamikaze as late as 1986.
Japanese leadership is weak, more concerned about individual workers safety than the life of the entire Japanese population!


Hey! Their central bank is hard at work. Only in a country with a fiat system can the market bounce back 5% on the same day they abondon a 4-unit nuclear station that is in meltdown. Yippee for paper currency....another victory!!!!!!!

[Spectrism]

What exactly are they to do now? Sending in workers to die without gaining anything is not good.

The cards have been dealt. The negligence in design and operational procedures have beed a disaster waiting and the trap has sprung on itself. Now there is an impossible mission. The fuel rods are in places that cannot be contained. Those pools will heat up and the amount of radioactive material- perhaps thousands of tons- will cook off making that area unapproachable. I think that even remote piloted vehicles will fail as electronics and cameras are cooked by the radiation.

Just my guess on this, but I think this is likely to be an oozing sore of poison until the end of the world. Japan is toast.

[Santa]

I think it would be nice if every CEO in the nuclear industry would lead through example by volunteering
to be air dropped onto the reactors to act as aggregate in the concrete that eventually covers the site.

[DMac]

IMHO we`ll start seeing a lot of nefarious details being uncovered in the coming months and years, details about possible weapons-grade plutonium being manufactured by the "peaceful" Japanese, ignoring specific warnings from Russian seismologists about 2011 quake in that area.


Weapons grade plutonium in Japan confirmed, flashback 2003 & 2006. I assume this plant, reactor 3, is one of the production facilities.

Can Japan embrace the atom bomb? (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_23-2-2003_pg4_10)

Shingo Nishimura, a right-wing member of the Japanese parliament:

“East Asia today is at the equivalent stage of the Munich meeting,” he storms. “Kim Jong Il, the North Korean leader, is Hitler and the Japanese Government is behaving like Chamberlain.”

Determined to resist these modern-day appeasers and confront the North Korean dictator, Mr Nishimura presents a chillingly simple solution: 58 years after becoming the world’s first atomic victims, it is time for the Japanese to acquire nuclear weapons.

A few months ago, Mr Nishimura was regarded as an isolated crank and his views are still far from being mainstream. But since the end of last year, when North Korea resumed operations at a suspected nuclear weapons programme just a few hundred miles across the sea from Japan, a subtle but remarkable change has taken place. “When I talked about nuclear weapons in the past everyone attacked me,” Mr Nishimura says. “But now no one does.”

Until recently, the merest allusion to the possibility of a nuclear Japan was taboo. But among politicians, academics and bureaucrats the possibility is now being discreetly and cautiously discussed.

A number of American commentators, including the former Republican presidential contender, Senator John McCain, have urged their Government to encourage a Japanese nuclear capability.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13983876/JAPANnazisOFasiaATROCITIES


On 17 June 1974, Japanese Prime Minister Tsutomu Hata told reporters that "it's certainly the
case that Japan has the capability to possess nuclear weapons but has not made them."

In Nov 2006, "Japan is capable of producing nuclear weapons," Foreign Minister Taro Aso
told a parliamentary committee on security issues. "But we are not saying we have plans to
possess nuclear weapons." Aso, who has called for discussion of Japan's non-nuclear policy,
also asserted that the pacifist constitution does not forbid possession of nuclear bomb.

Eugene Register-Guard - Jan 7, 2003 newspaper (Google archive link HERE (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=PE9WAAAAIBAJ&sjid=v-sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3548,1374780&dq=does+japan+possess+nuclear+weapons&hl=en))

________
Edit:
Apparently Japan has tons of weapons-grade plutonium.

Some links:

Sep 9, 2005
The unthinkable: A nuclear-armed Japan (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/GI09Dh03.html)


Sixty years ago the Japanese city of Nagasaki was destroyed by one nuclear bomb containing five kilograms of plutonium. Japan reportedly now has one of the largest stocks of weapons-usable plutonium in the world (45,000 kilograms and growing) as well as access to the most advanced missile technology. This is not by accident but design. Deliberate policy established in the late 1960s by senior politicians was aimed at acquiring the nuclear material required for atomic bombs, and the means to deliver them. [1] Without having to cross the difficult threshold of actual weapons development, Japan has already become a de facto nuclear weapons state.

Friday, March 7, 2003
Japan's A-bomb goal still long way off in '45 (http://search.japantimes.co.jp/member/member.html?nn20030307b7.htm)

Last May, Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's top aide, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yasuo Fukuda, appeared to signal a shift away from the antinuclear doctrine by saying Japan was not legally prohibited from having atomic arms.

[oldmansmith]

Like rats they are:

"Some foreign bankers, flush with money, are fleeing fast, some on private jets. BNP Paribas, Standard Chartered and Morgan Stanley were among banks whose staff have left since Friday, according to industry sources."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110316/wl_nm/us_japan_quake_tokyo

[Awoke]

A lot of people are bashing Japan and GE for design flaws because of this incident.

I am not defending them here. I just want to remind everyone that these plants are built with siesmic designs in mind. I don't think ANYONE can build a nuke plant that is Earthquake proof and Tsunami proof.

I mean, if a sudden vent of lava worked its way through the earths crust and caused the reactors to melt down, it's like people would be blaming GE for not making designing the plants to be "Volcano proof".

Realistically, there is no safe place in the world to build a nuke plant. When mother nature decides to change things, she changes things, and plant designs can only go so far to mitigate forseen issues.

Nothing is "mothernature proof."

[Awoke]

Just caught this numerology thing on a Russian site. They also mention that Joe Vialls mysteriously died after he uncovered the artificial nature of the 2004 Asian quake:
http://www.whale.to/b/vialls2.html


I want to know what that article says, but I'm honestly just to tired to read it all.
Can you summarize? (Beyond "inside job")

[Spectrism]

A lot of people are bashing Japan and GE for design flaws because of this incident.

I am not defending them here. I just want to remind everyone that these plants are built with siesmic designs in mind. I don't think ANYONE can build a nuke plant that is Earthquake proof and Tsunami proof.

I mean, if a sudden vent of lava worked its way through the earths crust and caused the reactors to melt down, it's like people would be blaming GE for not making designing the plants to be "Volcano proof".

Realistically, there is no safe place in the world to build a nuke plant. When mother nature decides to change things, she changes things, and plant designs can only go so far to mitigate forseen issues.

Nothing is "mothernature proof."


I don't think people are blaming GE or Japan for natural disasters. What is to be blamed would include:

GE's poor design with no contingencies for such disasters. (cooling system weaknesses, containment vessel limits, etc)
Japan's love for hari kari in neglecting safe & prudent procedures (reactor locations, fuel rod storage, etc)

[Neuro]

IMHO we`ll start seeing a lot of nefarious details being uncovered in the coming months and years, details about possible
weapons-grade plutonium being manufactured by the "peaceful" Japanese, ignoring specific warnings from Russian seismologists about 2011 quake in that area. Russia has built the world`s 1st commercial nuke reactor and has dealt with the worst nuke disaster so far.

I think Russia will be at the forefront of this investigation.We are watching mostly RT right now, aren`t we?
I`m scanning huge Russian articles from the top scientists, seems like it is debatable whether Japan will be inhabitable in the near future...

It is ironic that Japan doesn`t have kamikaze today and is abandoning what is potentially the largest nuke leak ever.
Russia had kamikaze as late as 1986.
Japanese leadership is weak, more concerned about individual workers safety than the life of the entire Japanese population!


Hey! Their central bank is hard at work. Only in a country with a fiat system can the market bounce back 5% on the same day they abondon a 4-unit nuclear station that is in meltdown. Yippee for paper currency....another victory!!!!!!!
Greenspan may have termed this irrational exuberance! It simply is astonishing though! On news that may mean that large very populated areas of Japan may be uninhabitable, the stock market gains 5%!

[gunDriller]

1000's of tons of spent fuel rods, as of March 2010 (see pg 4), grim news here

http://www.nirs.org/reactorwatch/accidents/6-1_powerpoint.pdf
fuck! More than 1700 tons of Uranium at the Fukushima reactors, which at least 80% would be in the spent fuel pools. Last I read they had only 50 people working there, and now they pulled all of them out. They are killing Japan, because it is not safe to work there! I have no doubt they could find volunteers, even for a certain death mission if they really wanted to! This is just incredible! Damn!


do you have reliable info that the fuel storage facilities are at risk of explosion and radiation release ?

i had the impression that the failure of 5 or 6 operating nuclear plants, complete with explosions & meltdown, was the problem, not the fuel storage area.




A lot of people are bashing Japan and GE for design flaws because of this incident.

I am not defending them here. I just want to remind everyone that these plants are built with siesmic designs in mind. I don't think ANYONE can build a nuke plant that is Earthquake proof and Tsunami proof.

I mean, if a sudden vent of lava worked its way through the earths crust and caused the reactors to melt down, it's like people would be blaming GE for not making designing the plants to be "Volcano proof".

Realistically, there is no safe place in the world to build a nuke plant. When mother nature decides to change things, she changes things, and plant designs can only go so far to mitigate forseen issues.

Nothing is "mothernature proof."


building 5 or 6 nuclear reactors close together in an area that is prone to earthquakes and vulnerable to tsunami's violates a number of basic engineering safety principles. they certainly did fuck up with the design.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7661#more

"Fukushima’s fate was sealed on the day the Japanese government gave approval for the reactors to be built on a coastline where there was a high probability of earthquake and tsunami in the plant’s lifetime. The risks were known and understood and the facility was engineered to a high specification to withstand such events. For three days, the fate of the global nuclear industry has hung in the balance. Had the Japanese engineers managed to contain the incident then it was possible that the nuclear industry could emerge strengthened with proof that well designed and maintained American reactors could withstand the worst that nature can throw. But alas, this is not the case.

In granting consent to build these reactors the Japanese government, with little to no supplies of indigenous primary energy such as coal, oil and natural gas, must have decided that benefits to Japan of providing over 30% of electricity from nuclear sources outweighed the risks of building nuclear plant in one of the seismically most active regions of the world. Not only did they consent to build, but they built 4 reactors in close proximity to each other, right on the coast where they would feel the maximum effect of any tsunami. The coastal location proves beneficial now since this provides ready access to cooling water, much of the radiation released will fall on the sea and not on land, and there is reduced risk of pollution of ground water. But had they been built on higher ground a short way inland then they would not have been hit by the tsunami in the first place. How such risks have been weighed will go under the microscope in the weeks and months ahead. Building a cluster like this is no doubt based on a shared defence system, but it has been surprising to watch hydrogen explosions in one reactor compromise neighbouring reactor buildings. Were these risks properly weighed?

It has also been instructive to learn that steel and concrete containment systems alone are not sufficient to guarantee safety. Maintaining the engineering ability to pump water through the core after emergency shutdown means that pumps, pipes and valves located outside of the armoured core defence systems must also continue to function, and as is the case with many disasters, damage inflicted by the disaster itself may compromise the safety systems and their backup. In the case of Fukushima, the plant survived the initial onslaught of earthquake and tsunami. Damage inflicted at that stage set in motion a sequence of events, starting with the venting of hydrogen gas and the explosions they caused, and further degraded the capability to contain an escalating crisis. In terms of reactor design, it strikes me as odd that hydrogen should be vented into the confines of the reactor building, effectively creating a bomb. Have these eventualities been anticipated by the engineers who designed the plant?"

http://www.theoildrum.com/

is for geologists what G-S.us and similar websites are for survivalists. it's where geologists hang out and the moderators don't have much respect for scare tactic or other BS. it's a good source of reliable info.


lastly, there are the statements from some nuclear agencies that this is no longer a "Level 4" emergency. they are saying that this is Level 7. the scale runs from 1 to 7.

here in the Continental US, i still think our biggest problem is panic, and the effect on the world economy and our economy.

at least until we get hit by another large quake ourselves.


more info on the specific reactor design.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16contain.html

"In 1972, Stephen H. Hanauer, then a safety official with the Atomic Energy Commission, recommended that the Mark 1 system be discontinued because it presented unacceptable safety risks. Among the concerns cited was the smaller containment design, which was more susceptible to explosion and rupture from a buildup in hydrogen — a situation that may have unfolded at the Fukushima Daiichi plant. Later that same year, Joseph Hendrie, who would later become chairman of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, a successor agency to the atomic commission, said the idea of a ban on such systems was attractive. But the technology had been so widely accepted by the industry and regulatory officials, he said, that “reversal of this hallowed policy, particularly at this time, could well be the end of nuclear power.”

a combination of design flaws and politics.


personally i still think nuclear power is a good energy source -
* if it is designed by properly fanatical engineers
* if the managers listen to the engineers
* if the politicians stick to having affairs with their aides and leave the nuclear engineering to the engineers.

but maybe in the 20th & 21st century, our societies are not adult enough to "do" nuclear power.

one solution - give the politicians & the nuclear plant designers & regulators big chunks of land right next to the nuclear plant - for them and their families to live on. then maybe they would take safety more seriously.

[undgrd]

A lot of people are bashing Japan and GE for design flaws because of this incident.

I am not defending them here. I just want to remind everyone that these plants are built with siesmic designs in mind. I don't think ANYONE can build a nuke plant that is Earthquake proof and Tsunami proof.

I mean, if a sudden vent of lava worked its way through the earths crust and caused the reactors to melt down, it's like people would be blaming GE for not making designing the plants to be "Volcano proof".

Realistically, there is no safe place in the world to build a nuke plant. When mother nature decides to change things, she changes things, and plant designs can only go so far to mitigate forseen issues.

Nothing is "mothernature proof."


Agreed...also, these plants where built in the 70's. If they had the information then that they have now, I'm sure the engineers that designed that plant would have made a few changes to that plant.

[oldmansmith]

It is just another example of man's hubris. Build a nuke plant on a fault line, I mean what could go wrong?

[Publico Pro Se]

It is just another example of man's hubris. Build a nuke plant on a fault line, I mean what could go wrong?


The M&M's could meltdown in your hand before melting down in your mouth.

[Awoke]

It is just another example of man's hubris. Build a nuke plant on a fault line, I mean what could go wrong?




Realistically, there is no safe place in the world to build a nuke plant. When mother nature decides to change things, she changes things, and plant designs can only go so far to mitigate forseen issues.

Nothing is "mothernature proof."


They are not "on" a fault line. The Island country is "near" a fault line.

I can feel pretty confident is saying that no other nuke plants on this planet could withstand the double wammy that Diiachi went through. I doubt any of them would do any better.

[keehah]

I can feel pretty confident is saying that no other nuke plants on this planet could withstand the double wammy that Diiachi went through. I doubt any of them would do any better.


I challenge that statement sir!
I expect a nuke plant on a submarine could handle 30 foot waves.

And for those not along the ocean, the second wammy is irrelevant, unless our whole world is turning upside down.
8)

[crazychicken]

I can feel pretty confident is saying that no other nuke plants on this planet could withstand the double wammy that Diiachi went through. I doubt any of them would do any better.


I challenge that statement sir!
I expect a nuke plant on a submarine could handle 30 foot waves.

And for those not along the ocean, the second wammy is irrelevant, unless our whole world is turning upside down.
8)


Now there is an observation. Probably almost tsunami proof--at least out to sea and submerged.

CC

[oldmansmith]

Keeps getting worse. On Yahoo:


TOKYO (Reuters) – Japan's nuclear crisis appeared to be spinning out of control on Wednesday after workers withdrew briefly from a stricken power plant because of surging radiation levels and a helicopter failed to drop water on the most troubled reactor.

In a sign of desperation, the police will try to cool spent nuclear fuel at one of the facility's reactors with water cannon, normally used to quell riots...

[G2Rad]

In a sign of desperation, the police will try to cool spent nuclear fuel at one of the facility's reactors with water cannon, normally used to quell riots...[/b][/b]


Let us assume decay heat was down to a few % of whatever rated core power is.
1000 megawatts thermal would be a fair guess that'd be maybe 300 megawatts (MW) electrical.
3% of 1000 MW would be thirty thousand kilowatts,
which is 30,000KW X 3412.7BTU/KWH = 102.4 million BTU per hour
or 28,439 BTU per second.
That'll boil about 28 pounds of water per second into steam.
At 7.5 lbs/gallon that's 3.8 gallons per second or 227 (call it 230) gallons per minute.
Now 230 GPM is a good sized fire truck.

[Neuro]

What exactly are they to do now? Sending in workers to die without gaining anything is not good.

The cards have been dealt. The negligence in design and operational procedures have beed a disaster waiting and the trap has sprung on itself. Now there is an impossible mission. The fuel rods are in places that cannot be contained. Those pools will heat up and the amount of radioactive material- perhaps thousands of tons- will cook off making that area unapproachable. I think that even remote piloted vehicles will fail as electronics and cameras are cooked by the radiation.

Just my guess on this, but I think this is likely to be an oozing sore of poison until the end of the world. Japan is toast.
Certainly, you may be right, but one thing is to have the attitude we are toast, or fuck it we will fight this to the bitter end.

[Large Sarge]

I have always wondered if there was some suppressed technology with this issue?

like they have those microbes that eat oil, maybe there is an equivalent????

I know "chi"/"orgone" effects radiation, but I am unsure what else does.......

very bad situation.

I am at a loss as to why the world is not mobilizing immediately to seal these things, like mamboni said "liquid nitrogen" or 50 tonnes of boron, or ?

Has Japan just been reluctant to ask for help, ?? or?

[bellevuebully]

In a sign of desperation, the police will try to cool spent nuclear fuel at one of the facility's reactors with water cannon, normally used to quell riots...[/b][/b]


Let us assume decay heat was down to a few % of whatever rated core power is.
1000 megawatts thermal would be a fair guess that'd be maybe 300 megawatts (MW) electrical.
3% of 1000 MW would be thirty thousand kilowatts,
which is 30,000KW X 3412.7BTU/KWH = 102.4 million BTU per hour
or 28,439 BTU per second.
That'll boil about 28 pounds of water per second into steam.
At 7.5 lbs/gallon that's 3.8 gallons per second or 227 (call it 230) gallons per minute.
Now 230 GPM is a good sized fire truck.


About as effective as listening to a politician for wisdom.

[DMac]

IAEA SAYS FUEL RODS EXPOSED IN UNITS 4, 5 AND 6
IAEA SAYS HIGHER RADIATION LEVELS FROM DAMAGED JAPAN REACTORS
IAEA SAYS TOTAL OF 4 JAPAN UNITS HAVE CORE DAMAGE

[bellevuebully]

As Santa previously mentioned....this is going to be on a whole new level when the wind changes direction. The truth tattletale will (ironically) be the msm reporters....when they start withdrawing we will know how bad the contamination is. Where they withdraw to will divulge a lot more information than their words, imo.

[wrs]

That'll boil about 28 pounds of water per second into steam.

In addition, wouldn't it be creating a lot of radioactive steam at the same time? Doesn't seem to me that this would be wise at all. It is going to contaminate the ground below it but it seems to me that creating a bunch of radioactive water vapor is really bad.


this is going to be on a whole new level when the wind changes direction.

Exactly, if it's south, look out, Japan is going to be in crisis.

[dys]

I don't believe for one second that this was an accident. First a deepwater drilling 'accident', now a nuclear 'accident'. Property values falling like a stone. Food prices skyrocketing...

AGENDA 21

dys

[Large Sarge]

so I am trying to understand all the variables
(based on availble info, not sure on reliability)
this is my take
the situation currently is that these reactors are overheating/melting down (sporadically)

and that is with all effort directed at keeping water on them

perhaps the fear/concern is that if they stop pumping water, to pump in cement (or whatever?), the meltdown will go full, before the cement (or whatever?) has time to work?

??

[Neuro]

That'll boil about 28 pounds of water per second into steam.

In addition, wouldn't it be creating a lot of radioactive steam at the same time? Doesn't seem to me that this would be wise at all. It is going to contaminate the ground below it but it seems to me that creating a bunch of radioactive water vapor is really bad.
The idea is to cool the core with water, so that less radioactive materials evaporates. The steam is just a vector, but hot air can transport the radioactive materials as well. However the problem is that there is no pumps to pump in the water to the core any longer...

[Cobalt]

Radiation Found on NBC News Lester Holt And Crew In Japan

http://www.businessinsider.com/lester-holt--nbc-news-japan-2011-3

[JohnQPublic]

Powerline to revive pumps at plant (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7474816.html)

TOKYO — The operator of Japan's tsunami-crippled nuclear plant says it has almost completed a new power line that could restore electricity to the complex and solve the crisis that has threatened a meltdown.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. spokesman Naoki Tsunoda said early Thursday the power line to Fukushima Dai-ichi is almost complete. Officials plan to try it "as soon as possible" but he could not say when.

The new line would revive electric-powered pumps, allowing the company to maintain a steady water supply to troubled reactors and spent fuel storage ponds, keeping them cool.

[Antonio]

Guys, I`m at a loss for words, just got up.

Seems like the only option is to beg a few hundred drunk Russian kamimaze workers to put out the Jap fires. I wouldn`t be surprised if we see this soon.

[vacuum]

Guys, I`m at a loss for words, just got up.

Seems like the only option is to beg a few hundred drunk Russian kamimaze workers to put out the Jap fires. I wouldn`t be surprised if we see this soon.

As soon as there is a gust of wind to the south and Tokyo (Japan's capital btw) becomes dangerous to be in, I think their motivation to fix this asap will highly increase.

[sirgonzo420]

I bet these guys could save us!


http://www.stardusttrailers.com/gallery_film/%28140509180154%29armageddon_1.jpg

[nunaem]

No more water in reactor 4, the one containing thousands of spent fuel rods. Complete meltdown imminent.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=13150227

[Antonio]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/japan.nuclear.heroes/index.html?hpt=T1#



More workers at Japan nuclear plant
RELATED TOPICS
Japan
Nuclear Energy
International Atomic Energy Agency
"The workers at Chernobyl had no idea that they were walking into an intense radiation field," said Professor Wakeford. "It was pandemonium; there was no monitoring, no idea of the risks."

By contrast, he said, staff at Fukushima Daiichi will be kitted out in protective clothing and breathing apparatus, they will be closely monitored and working in teams to limit their exposure to radiation.

"If I were them I would be more worried about the hydrogen explosions, which have been huge -- enough to blow the roofs off two buildings -- and which I think are a much bigger risk to the workers on the ground," he told CNN.

But Dr. Helfand said reports suggested that the operation was not going 100% to plan, describing it as "something out of an adventure movie."

"We are in totally uncharted waters, people are ad-libbing to deal with the situation," he said. "Using fire trucks to pump a mixture of sea water and boron onto the reactors is not in any of the manuals."

Professor Wakeford said the workers will have known they may one day face a risky situation such as this.

However, Dr. Helfand said that made them even braver, and their work more admirable.

"These workers are trained to understand the risks, but that only makes it all the more heroic that they have agreed to stay and work to prevent a disaster," he said.

"They know that if there is a reactor meltdown it could be a major disaster affecting huge areas and massive numbers of people, and they are risking their lives to try and prevent that. All of us owe them a huge debt of gratitude."

Professor Wakeford agreed: "They are heroic, there is no doubt about that -- it's a pity that isn't recognised more. They are heroes, and I bow down to them."



PS. The professor seems to imply that Russians are stupid, while Japanese are educated and informed. Even if we assume that the Russian firemen were a bit uninformed when their first teams arrived at Chernobyl, they learned fast from seeing their comrads vomit and collapse within minutes after their shift was over. From then on everyone knew this was a one-way mission with no coming back, horrendous deaths after meat melting off their bones.

[Horn]

Guys, I`m at a loss for words, just got up.

Seems like the only option is to beg a few hundred drunk Russian kamimaze workers to put out the Jap fires. I wouldn`t be surprised if we see this soon.

As soon as there is a gust of wind to the south and Tokyo (Japan's capital btw) becomes dangerous to be in, I think their motivation to fix this asap will highly increase.


The way things are going over there, that'll be the moment fujiyama blows.

Russians have an extended half life with radiation poisoning, let them do it.

[Antonio]

http://www.alamongordo.com/

a concentrated dose of doom here.

[Horn]

If the wind turns inland the Japanese gov will say its only a slight breeze.

[Antonio]

They should drop bags of sand and lead shot from choppers a la Chernobyl right now. Forget about the fire and just make sure to minimize the reactors vomiting tons of plutonium in the atmosphere.

[nunaem]

If the wind turns inland the Japanese gov will say its only a slight breeze.


If people start becoming nauseous they will say there is bad rice going around.

[Horn]

They should drop bags of sand and lead shot from choppers a la Chernobyl right now. Forget about the fire and just make sure to minimize the reactors vomiting tons of plutonium in the atmosphere.


http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0809/rock-paper-scissors-paper-scissors-helicopter-kill-demotivational-poster-1222007102.jpg

[sunnyandseventy]

http://www.alamongordo.com/

a concentrated dose of doom here.


I forgot to read the nuclear stuff when I clicked on Putin is the anti-christ.

[Horn]

http://icons-ecast.wxug.com/data/640x480/2xi_jp_ws.gif

[Antonio]

I just smoked a cig and this is what came to my mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY

[Spectrism]

They should drop bags of sand and lead shot from choppers a la Chernobyl right now. Forget about the fire and just make sure to minimize the reactors vomiting tons of plutonium in the atmosphere.


They can't. This is worse than Chernobyl. The used rods... many tons of them... are stored in upper levels. At Chernobyl, all the meltdown product was on the floor. In Japan, they would need to build a mountain over these reactors. Maybe that is what they will have to do.... start dozing in earth for a new mountain.

Mount Fujifukushittiama

[Antonio]

They should drop bags of sand and lead shot from choppers a la Chernobyl right now. Forget about the fire and just make sure to minimize the reactors vomiting tons of plutonium in the atmosphere.


They can't. This is worse than Chernobyl. The used rods... many tons of them... are stored in upper levels. At Chernobyl, all the meltdown product was on the floor. In Japan, they would need to build a mountain over these reactors. Maybe that is what they will have to do.... start dozing in earth for a new mountain.

Mount Fujifukushittiama


shit,bro. I just read a Russian site where they say Chernobyl was classified as 7 and the Jap thing is still 6 because Chernobyl has been studied to death while we still have no idea about what exactly is happening in Japan. Russians say the Jap thing may soon be classified as 8 if the sheer contamination dwarfs Chernobyl. Japs may be in a league of their own as the biggest nuke fuckups ever.

PS. They WERE stored in the upper levels. The upper levels are floating thru air right now...

[Neuro]

They should drop bags of sand and lead shot from choppers a la Chernobyl right now. Forget about the fire and just make sure to minimize the reactors vomiting tons of plutonium in the atmosphere.


They can't. This is worse than Chernobyl. The used rods... many tons of them... are stored in upper levels. At Chernobyl, all the meltdown product was on the floor. In Japan, they would need to build a mountain over these reactors. Maybe that is what they will have to do.... start dozing in earth for a new mountain.

Seriously I think that is what they should do, yes they would need much, much more material than was needed in Chernobyl, but I can't see any other realistic alternative, many in the helicopter crew will die a horrible death, but it will be a small cost compared to the alternative...

[crazychicken]

A small cost? To their families?

CC




snip/snip.
Seriously I think that is what they should do, yes they would need much, much more material than was needed in Chernobyl, but I can't see any other realistic alternative, many in the helicopter crew will die a horrible death, but it will be a small cost compared to the alternative...

[po boy]

Anyone wish to volunteer?

[Neuro]

A small cost? To their families?

CC




snip/snip.
Seriously I think that is what they should do, yes they would need much, much more material than was needed in Chernobyl, but I can't see any other realistic alternative, many in the helicopter crew will die a horrible death, but it will be a small cost compared to the alternative...


No off course not it will be a small cost to their families, they should exclude men with young children. States have been pushing young men into pointless wars and certain deaths for the bankers benefits, for the last 200 years, this sacrifice would at least save a great many lives.

[crazychicken]

Yes! Anyone! Step right up!

CC



Anyone wish to volunteer?

[Antonio]

If Jap govt provides unlimited pharmaceutical heroin,cocaine and benzos plus top quality hookers ( hookers must be provided right away on arrival `cause after the first shift one won`t be able to get it up anymore) , they could soon find plenty of volunteers...
Forgot to add, there is no need to die horribly in a situation like this, one simply must be euthanized.

[mick silver]

well boys an girls we all have been seeing doom coming for years . well f it here

[Neuro]

Anyone wish to volunteer?
If this was in my vicinity, and my children were adults I would volunteer!

[mick silver]

If the wind turns inland the Japanese gov will say its only a slight breeze.
then the f gov will leave an go to a bunker here in the states

[Cobalt]

Just make a new reality show

Call it Who is the Worlds Hero

You will have people fighting to get on

[ximmy]

They should drop bags of sand and lead shot from choppers a la Chernobyl right now. Forget about the fire and just make sure to minimize the reactors vomiting tons of plutonium in the atmosphere.


They can't. This is worse than Chernobyl. The used rods... many tons of them... are stored in upper levels. At Chernobyl, all the meltdown product was on the floor. In Japan, they would need to build a mountain over these reactors. Maybe that is what they will have to do.... start dozing in earth for a new mountain.

Seriously I think that is what they should do, yes they would need much, much more material than was needed in Chernobyl, but I can't see any other realistic alternative, many in the helicopter crew will die a horrible death, but it will be a small cost compared to the alternative...


Meanwhile, Japanese emergency teams say they are 'not afraid to die' as they face dangerous levels of radiation in the fight to stop catastrophe at the tsunami-hit Fukushima nuclear plant.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366670/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-French-claim-scale-nuclear-disaster-hidden.html

[Antonio]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/japan.nuclear.reactors/?hpt=T1#


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnnKF6H09rg

[Serpo]

.
[/quote]

Meanwhile, Japanese emergency teams say they are 'not afraid to die' as they face dangerous levels of radiation in the fight to stop catastrophe at the tsunami-hit Fukushima nuclear plant.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366670/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-French-claim-scale-nuclear-disaster-hidden.html

[/quote]

Nuclear kamikaze ............

[keehah]

DailyMail UK: Get out of Tokyo: Foreign Office tells all Britons to leave toxic radiation zone as Japanese 'lose control' of stricken reactor (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366670/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-French-claim-scale-nuclear-disaster-hidden.html#ixzz1Go7zrvR7) 16th March 2011

However, a desperate 'last resort' attempt to prevent a nuclear disaster was being put into action last night - using riot police water cannons.
A blue water cannon vehicle from the Tokyo metropolitan police department was last night heading to the dangerous Fukushima district, the officers on board about to change into white protective suits and masks.
The plan, said government officials, was to fire water from ground level into the side of one of the badly damaged reactor in the hope of cooling the fuel rods that are said to be close to melt down.
Melt down would result in a high amount of radioactivity pouring into the atmosphere.
It is hoped the water cannon plan will blast enough water through the side of the damaged reactor casing to build up a pool of water that will rise and cover the rods.
'It's a last resort,' said a source close to the government.
'This absolutely has to work.'

It suggests that the equipment they had to stop the public from protesting was 'bigger and badder' than the equipment they had to fight nuclear meltdowns. ???

[solid]

Anyone wish to volunteer?
If this was in my vicinity, and my children were adults I would volunteer!


I would too, Neuro. I have no children and my family name lives on with my brothers. Of course, I would have a...what am I getting myself into moment.

That would be the ultimate honor and sacrifice for humanity.

[po boy]

Anyone wish to volunteer?
If this was in my vicinity, and my children were adults I would volunteer!


I would too, Neuro. I have no children and my family name lives on with my brothers. Of course, I would have a...what am I getting myself into moment.

That would be the ultimate honor and sacrifice for humanity.

Leave us a quick good bye when the spooks show up then come and get me and bring weed.

[cortez]

Powerline to revive pumps at plant (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7474816.html)

TOKYO — The operator of Japan's tsunami-crippled nuclear plant says it has almost completed a new power line that could restore electricity to the complex and solve the crisis that has threatened a meltdown.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. spokesman Naoki Tsunoda said early Thursday the power line to Fukushima Dai-ichi is almost complete. Officials plan to try it "as soon as possible" but he could not say when.

The new line would revive electric-powered pumps, allowing the company to maintain a steady water supply to troubled reactors and spent fuel storage ponds, keeping them cool.




even if they got the power going again all those containment pools are surely melting into shit while the rods have been exposed.no way they can just flip the switch and start pumping water into those tanks. maybe they are hoping to save 5 and 6.

[Antonio]

Guys, enough of macho BS. I don`t doubt Japan will provide some kamimaze but the eerie thing is that they need 1000s of them right now. Chernobyl workers collapsed soon, some within hrs or days, thus a need for a stream of kamikaze...

[crazychicken]

Guys, enough of macho BS. I don`t doubt Japan will provide some kamimaze but the eerie thing is that they need 1000s of them right now. Chernobyl workers collapsed soon, some within hrs or days, thus a need for a stream of kamikaze...


Antonio--Where were you when Chernobyl went?

We were in Warsaw!

Exciting times--hey!

CC

[ximmy]

A little Bohemian Rhapsody for our soon to be no more Japanese volunteers... :boohoo
------
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
Open your eyes
Look up to the skies and see-
Im just a poor boy,i need no sympathy-
Because Im easy come,easy go,
A little high,little low,
Anyway the wind blows,doesnt really matter to me,
To me
Too late,my time has come,
Sends shivers down my spine-
Bodys aching all the time,
Goodbye everybody-Ive got to go-
Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth-
Mama ooo- (any way the wind blows)
I dont want to die,
I sometimes wish Id never been born at all-
----
Japanese Helicopter & Russian Helicopter After Chernobyl

[nunaem]

Guys, enough of macho BS. I don`t doubt Japan will provide some kamimaze but the eerie thing is that they need 1000s of them right now. Chernobyl workers collapsed soon, some within hrs or days, thus a need for a stream of kamikaze...


I read that 15,000 Russian troops died trying to contain Chernobyl. Any truth to that?

[Antonio]

Guys, enough of macho BS. I don`t doubt Japan will provide some kamimaze but the eerie thing is that they need 1000s of them right now. Chernobyl workers collapsed soon, some within hrs or days, thus a need for a stream of kamikaze...


Antonio--Where were you when Chernobyl went?

We were in Warsaw!

Exciting times--hey!

CC


I was 14 and in St.Pete, got shitfaced, then 2 days later went to Moscow and got under radioactive rain. Most of the radiation we got was from the contaminated food distributed later by Gorby whose function was to kill as many goym as possible. Chernobyl was an inside job, they gave orders to do an experiment there to produce more juice which led to a 100% expected meltdown.
Building several reactors using MOX fuel in the worst seismological zone on the planet IS AN INSIDE JOB.
PS. Our greatest problem in the yrs after Chernobyl was the absense of Geiger counters available to the public. A classmate of mine had chemistry professors for parents, he whispered in my ear that many parts of Leningrad were contaminated as well as food. I bought a Geiger in `99 here and it is always within my reach. I always knew that the most precious thing to have during the Apocalypse is a Radalert and a few 9volt batteries.
Notice how Japanese public is now relying on govt to learn the truth and remember that Japs are HIGHLY aware of nuclear danger. Jap tourists were notorious in Leningrad because they all carried geigers and would suddenly run away from a location during sight-seeing. I can`t believe they don`t have them now, I haven`t seen a single civilian showing their Geiger to the cameras...

[Antonio]

Guys, enough of macho BS. I don`t doubt Japan will provide some kamimaze but the eerie thing is that they need 1000s of them right now. Chernobyl workers collapsed soon, some within hrs or days, thus a need for a stream of kamikaze...


I read that 15,000 Russian troops died trying to contain Chernobyl. Any truth to that?


Nobody knows for sure, it is the most classified info. It can be as high as that or even higher or much lower, depending on whom you believe. My expertise ends here. What I know for sure that some received 500 Roengens which is a lethal dose, then had bone marrow transplants and are still alive.
People are different and some can survive eating plutonium for breakfast.
One thing is certain, a situation like this demands that 1000s or even millions who are ready to die. Russia sent 500000 to work on the cleanup, everyone there was a kamikaze in a sense.

[StackerKen]

well boys an girls we all have been seeing doom coming for years . well f it here


Really? The doom is here now? :-\

I don't feel like panicking right now...maybe later.... :)

come on folks...

Heck, The U.S. Nuked the crap out of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the fortys and I don't think we had any radiation problem here in the states from that...Did we?

Do you think the Radiation will kill us before the oil in the gulf does?

[Antonio]

well boys an girls we all have been seeing doom coming for years . well f it here


Really? The doom is here now? :-\

I don't feel like panicking right now...maybe later.... :)

come on folks...

Heck, The U.S. Nuked the crap out of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the fortys and I don't think we had any radiation problem here in the states from that...Did we?

Do you think the Radiation will kill us before the oil in the gulf does?


Ken, Chernobyl released about 1000 Hirosima nukes, the current Jap shit is shaping up be much worse...

[nunaem]

Interesting pics:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365569/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-Aftershocks-10k-missing-Minami-Sanrik.html

[Trinity]

Do you think the Radiation will kill us before the oil in the gulf does?

Neither, I say the terrorists get us first.

[StackerKen]

well boys an girls we all have been seeing doom coming for years . well f it here


Really? The doom is here now? :-\

I don't feel like panicking right now...maybe later.... :)

come on folks...

Heck, The U.S. Nuked the crap out of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the fortys and I don't think we had any radiation problem here in the states from that...Did we?

Do you think the Radiation will kill us before the oil in the gulf does?


Ken, Chernobyl released about 1000 Hirosima nukes, the current Jap shit is shaping up be much worse...


ohh :P

Well chit....Im still not gonna worry.....it is what it is......

It is a drag...and I hope there isn't a lot of suffering.... :(

I don't have time to worry about chit that I can't do anything about....

Im going out to enjoy the sunset in my garden now...Love you guys! :-*

[nunaem]

Wtf, probably 1/100th of that water is landing on the reactor.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

EDIT: I guess they gave up that fruitless effort now.

[SLV^GLD]

Well chit....Im still not gonna worry.....it is what it is......

It is a drag...and I hope there isn't a lot of suffering.... :(

I don't have time to worry about chit that I can't do anything about....

Im going out to enjoy the sunset in my garden now...Love you guys! :-*
That's a decent attitude, really... especially for a guy who likes to spend a lot of time in the same water that laps the Japanese shores and eats from a garden fed from rain that may be soon toxic.
I don't worry about it because I can't control it but I am certainly not denying it which is easy to say for a guy on the complete opposite side of the continent from you.
I have faith that this all part of God's plan but it doesn't mean it is all sunsets and puppy dogs.

[osoab]

Wtf, probably 1/100th of that water is landing on the reactor.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

EDIT: I guess they gave up that fruitless effort now.


It looked like monkeys fucking a football. Completely inadequate for the emergency. Now they are sending in 11 water riot-control water cannon truck. I think one of the riot-trucks are on site. Then they will have to leave the site to replenish water again. Only four drops were made with 2 helicopters. The radiation is too high for the copters dropping from 500 ft above the reactor building. The copters had lead shielding installed and pilots were wearing PPE.

Monkeys fucking footballs or sideshow for the public? Either way, this is not going to get the job done.

[nunaem]

Wtf, probably 1/100th of that water is landing on the reactor.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

EDIT: I guess they gave up that fruitless effort now.


It looked like monkeys fucking a football. Completely inadequate for the emergency. Now they are sending in 11 water riot-control water cannon truck. I think one of the riot-trucks are on site. Then they will have to leave the site to replenish water again. Only four drops were made with 2 helicopters. The radiation is too high for the copters dropping from 500 ft above the reactor building. The copters had lead shielding installed and pilots were wearing PPE.

Monkeys fucking footballs or sideshow for the public? Either way, this is not going to get the job done.


It's just like planes and heli's dumping water on wildfires. Totally useless but makes the idiot masses think they are 'doing something'.

Except in this case the pilots are seriously risking their lives and health just by being there.

[Antonio]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-17-japanradiate17_ST_N.htm

they are lying to us.

[osoab]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-17-japanradiate17_ST_N.htm

they are lying to us.


When are they not lying to us?

[DMac]

So the heli's were a waste of time - propaganda show?

Next up is the water cannons. I read this in a comment on ZH:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/detailed-look-spent-fuel-rod-containment-pools-fukushima#comments



by machineh
on Wed, 03/16/2011 - 22:14
#1064821

Good point -- it's the common pool which has a volume of 3,828 cubic meters, according to the drawing.

If the stated capacity of 8,310 fuel assemblies is for all six reactor unit storage pools, then each one would have a capacity of 1,385 assemblies, or about 20% the size of the common pool.

So estimate 765 cubic meters for the pool in each reactor building. That's still 765 tonnes of water to fill each one. At 250 gallons/minute, a water cannon (precisely aimed, which is a whole other story with the spent fuel pool at the 5th floor level, and probably a show-stopper) could deliver almost one cubic meter per minute. So in 13 hours, with perfect aim, a big water cannon could refill an empty pool. That's if the workers, or shifts of workers, can spend 13 hours in the radioactive steam without getting fried.

That's 1 pool. There are 4 reactors. Also, if they have perfect aim. What's the Vegas over-under on success?

Good night and good luck.

[osoab]

http://edition.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=3

Live press conference with Japanese SDF minister now.

[osoab]

So the heli's were a waste of time - propaganda show?

Next up is the water cannons. I read this in a comment on ZH:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/detailed-look-spent-fuel-rod-containment-pools-fukushima#comments



by machineh
on Wed, 03/16/2011 - 22:14
#1064821

Good point -- it's the common pool which has a volume of 3,828 cubic meters, according to the drawing.

If the stated capacity of 8,310 fuel assemblies is for all six reactor unit storage pools, then each one would have a capacity of 1,385 assemblies, or about 20% the size of the common pool.

So estimate 765 cubic meters for the pool in each reactor building. That's still 765 tonnes of water to fill each one. At 250 gallons/minute, a water cannon (precisely aimed, which is a whole other story with the spent fuel pool at the 5th floor level, and probably a show-stopper) could deliver almost one cubic meter per minute. So in 13 hours, with perfect aim, a big water cannon could refill an empty pool. That's if the workers, or shifts of workers, can spend 13 hours in the radioactive steam without getting fried.

That's 1 pool. There are 4 reactors. Also, if they have perfect aim. What's the Vegas over-under on success?

Good night and good luck.


Water cannon trucks have to leave the site to get more water. 13 hours continuous is out of the question.

On the bright side, rioting in Tokyo just got easier. ;D

[DMac]

good point!

[bellevuebully]

Do yourselves a favour and completely disregard abour 98% of the utter nonsense CNN is reporting. Some doctor who is with Cooper in Tokyo brings out a tyvek oversuit (the white papery ones you see the workers wearing when monitoring the locals) and explains that these suits are designed to protect them from gamma rays. I can not see right now because my eyes are rolled completely back in my head.

Those suits do nothing more that give you an outer shell to strip off when you get contaminated by loose radioactive particulate which generally gives off small counts in 'counts per minute' (cpm's) but not necessarily register in millirems or other units of gamma.

Incredibly inaccurate reporting, unless the japanese have figured out a way to incorperate the protection of an inch of lead into a paper oversuit and failed to tell the rest of the world.

[bellevuebully]

Here is another crucial fact which you will not hear contemplated on tv....

Not as bad as Chernobyl? Hmm, I'd question that. Depending on the size of the storage facility of the spent rods there is significantly more fuel to melt down on that site by an order of magnitude. From what I know, Chrenobyl was one reactor. Here there are 4 in peril, plus at least one storage facility. This storage facility, if anything like other 30 year old facilities, probably represents at least 5-10 reactors worth of fuel. So assuming they lose control of the 4 reactors and the storage in unit 4, we'd be looking at 10-15 reactors worth of fuel, and possibly much more. This would create fields so deadly, workers would never be able to maintain units 5 & 6 storage, which may represent another 10 units worth of fuel. Of course I am speculating some here, but I'd bet dollars to donuts this paragraph contains a lot more truth than the last 3 days worth of 'news'. Jmho....but something to consider.

[bellevuebully]

One more thought.

What I am seeing with the whole issue of design that has been discussed is that there is a lack of contingency beyond the multiple layers of redundancy built into the control of these stations.

Yes, there are backups to backups, but where the contingency ends is where it really needs to be thought out. What if everything fails? How do we approach this thing to battle it in the event of massive gamma fields? Do we bury lines that we can pump concrete slurry through? Do we forsake easy access to water and instead of building on the shore, we build 20 miles inland and trench in a sufficient water way so that tsunamis are not an issue? Should there be piping laid into the ground with contingent undermining so that containment can be continuously and incrementally beefed up in the event of a melt down?

I think after this, if nuclear energy has a future, you will see these issues being discussed. Again, jmho.

[DMac]

You know it's a crazy world when we can look to the Chinese for accurate reporting:

http://jibtv.com/program/index.aspx?page=0

(at least this one hasn't flat out lied like most western & Japanese sources...yet anyway)

[bellevuebully]

Can't wait to see the 'quality' of the dozens of reactors built/being built in China. If their exported kids toys have radioactive paint on them, what are their nuke stations going to be like?

[osoab]

Way too much to link from this post at ZeroHedge. Some of this goes along with what B.B. was discussing.

The first graphic top line is what needs to be looked at. That is #6 reactor at Daiichi.

A Detailed Look At The Spent Fuel Rod Containment Pools At Fukushima (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/detailed-look-spent-fuel-rod-containment-pools-fukushima)


http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/von%20havenstein/Spent%20Rods%201.jpg

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/von%20havenstein/Spent%20Rds%202_0.jpg

Number 4 reactor spent rods are hot. I was reading over at TF that #4 was emptied in Nov/Dec 2010.

They are now trying to get a power line to the nuke plant to run the pumps for the spent fuel rods. Unfortunately, they will need to plumb in new pumps due to the old ones being compromised by seawater. This is all predicated on small radiation doses to get the work done to replace and hook up pumps.

Reactor #5 spent fuel pool is losing water and increasing in pressure. This reactor could end up like #4. I believe that #5 reactor spent fuel pool is being supplied water from one generator that is operational from reactor 6.

Clearly, this is not going to be resolved for days at a minimum.

[bellevuebully]

Thanks for that info Osoab. Really good info. So 3 out of the 6 reactors were operating and 6 reactors worth of spent rods is 9 reactors. That is not comparable to Chernobyl, if in fact they were not dealing with spent fuel.

[Kali]

Workers are now pissing on the rods in hopes to cool them down.

[osoab]

Thanks for that info Osoab. Really good info. So 3 out of the 6 reactors were operating and 6 reactors worth of spent rods is 9 reactors. That is not comparable to Chernobyl, if in fact they were not dealing with spent fuel.


Well, Chernobyl was a graphite core that melted then exploded out. So, we have no graphite issue here.
The vast quantities of spent fuel is the difference maker.

To clarify, there are seven spent fuel pools at the Daiichi site. There is one that is separate from the reactors.

[osoab]

CNN was reporting the general field in Tokyo. Bear in mind they are 150 miles away and upwind. They are reporting .3 microsieverts. I deal with rems and millirems. The conversion is 1 sievert = 100 rem. So can some of you check my math here....

.0003 seiverts * 100 = 0.03 rems , which is 30 millirems.

If tokyo is in 30millirem general fields, that would take 166 hrs (7 days) to reach the max that ohsa will allow a worker in 1 year.

Again, if that is correct and bearing in mind they are 150 miles away, and understanding that radiation deteriorates exponentially over distance, that is incredibly high. I hope I am wrong in my calc. Can someone else look at this and verify from other sources?


.0000003 microSv. I think I have it right. .3 microSv

I would like to see what the reading is when the wind shifts from the plant towards Tokyo.

[bellevuebully]

Thanks for that info Osoab. Really good info. So 3 out of the 6 reactors were operating and 6 reactors worth of spent rods is 9 reactors. That is not comparable to Chernobyl, if in fact they were not dealing with spent fuel.


Well, Chernobyl was a graphite core that melted then exploded out. So, we have no graphite issue here.
The vast quantities of spent fuel is the difference maker.

To clarify, there are seven spent fuel pools at the Daiichi site. There is one that is separate from the reactors.


Regardless of the general location of the pools, if those #'s are true, then the fact remains that if fields get high enough due to exposed fuel, be it in pools or reactors, that workers cannot access the site, the water in the pools will eventually evaportate and suffer the same fate.

[bellevuebully]

CNN was reporting the general field in Tokyo. Bear in mind they are 150 miles away and upwind. They are reporting .3 microsieverts. I deal with rems and millirems. The conversion is 1 sievert = 100 rem. So can some of you check my math here....

.0003 seiverts * 100 = 0.03 rems , which is 30 millirems.

If tokyo is in 30millirem general fields, that would take 166 hrs (7 days) to reach the max that ohsa will allow a worker in 1 year.

Again, if that is correct and bearing in mind they are 150 miles away, and understanding that radiation deteriorates exponentially over distance, that is incredibly high. I hope I am wrong in my calc. Can someone else look at this and verify from other sources?


.0000003 microSv. I think I have it right. .3 microSv

I would like to see what the reading is when the wind shifts from the plant towards Tokyo.


Yeah, I'm still in milli. Thanks. I'm gonna delete that post. Appreciate you catching that. That seemed awfully high.

[osoab]

Regardless of the general location of the pools, if those #'s are true, then the fact remains that if fields get high enough due to exposed fuel, be it in pools or reactors, that workers cannot access the site, the water in the pools will eventually evaportate and suffer the same fate.


I think the concensus is that the water has evaporated out of #4 pool. #3 pool has issues along with the actual reactor casing. #3 has the MOX fuel. Reactors 1 & 2 have holes in them. 1 is much worse than 2.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nGtLcfPt6Lo/TYDDWBJJOfI/AAAAAAAAESY/LbhZshvwSK8/s400/Fukushima+3+and+4.png

None the less, it is a shit storm of a magnitude only few imagined.

[sirgonzo420]

CNN was reporting the general field in Tokyo. Bear in mind they are 150 miles away and upwind. They are reporting .3 microsieverts. I deal with rems and millirems. The conversion is 1 sievert = 100 rem. So can some of you check my math here....

.0003 seiverts * 100 = 0.03 rems , which is 30 millirems.

If tokyo is in 30millirem general fields, that would take 166 hrs (7 days) to reach the max that ohsa will allow a worker in 1 year.

Again, if that is correct and bearing in mind they are 150 miles away, and understanding that radiation deteriorates exponentially over distance, that is incredibly high. I hope I am wrong in my calc. Can someone else look at this and verify from other sources?


.0000003 microSv. I think I have it right. .3 microSv

I would like to see what the reading is when the wind shifts from the plant towards Tokyo.


.3 microsieverts = 0.03 millirem

[bellevuebully]

I would like to see what the reading is when the wind shifts from the plant towards Tokyo.


Me too.

That is when the cat will be out of the bag.

[bellevuebully]

.3 microsieverts = 0.03 millirem


Thanks also Gonz.

[Spectrism]

Workers are now pissing on the rods in hopes to cool them down.


Yeah, well.... some of their DNA got into the seawater with the special "minerals" and look what came out-

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/_images/fishface3.jpg

[mick silver]

maybe doom was to much to use right now for some . but this will cost everyone something and alot there lives

[mick silver]

how bad is it with the 1700 ton of wasted fuel rods if they go up? what does this add to what is happening right now ... like i said before i am here to learn from some of your guys

[vacuum]

Yes, there are backups to backups, but where the contingency ends is where it really needs to be thought out. What if everything fails? How do we approach this thing to battle it in the event of massive gamma fields? Do we bury lines that we can pump concrete slurry through? Do we forsake easy access to water and instead of building on the shore, we build 20 miles inland and trench in a sufficient water way so that tsunamis are not an issue? Should there be piping laid into the ground with contingent undermining so that containment can be continuously and incrementally beefed up in the event of a melt down?

I think after this, if nuclear energy has a future, you will see these issues being discussed. Again, jmho.

For the particular emergency at hand:
Bury nukes about 1/2 to 1/4 mile from the site, surrounding it. The nukes should be about 100 m underground. Detonate the nukes. This will cause massive amounts of dirt to go into the air, covering the site.

After the site is covered, a nuke should be buried directly beneath the power plant, to a depth deep enough that it will not rupture the ground when detonated. This nuke will crystallize the ground beneath the site, sealing out water and creating a type of glass.

I'm being completely serious.

edit: obviously they'd wait for a day when the wind would blow all the dust from the explosion out to sea

[osoab]

This is a Nat Geo segment of spent fuel rods going critical. It starts around 2:50 mark? I watched it yesterday. I don't quite remember the start time. Due to the fact that the first minute tells lies about birds, I don't know if the remainder of the program has any credibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGQBE-EKcjo&feature=player_embedded

[Serpo]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-17-japanradiate17_ST_N.htm

they are lying to us.


When are they not lying to us?


When they are asleep..... :sun:

[Glass]

Now they are saying that the H5N1(+ ) bird flu has been found on several poultry farming properties. They are now preparing to exterminate (er steralize) the poultry industry. They will dispose of all chickens and eggs.

Hey do you guys like barbecue chicken? Perhaps southern fried? I know of a fairly large cooking facility in Japan. Perhaps they can drop the birds into the "cookers" and presto.....

[mick silver]

dam today the had abig sale on chicken here so i load the the boat

[Serpo]

One more thought.

What I am seeing with the whole issue of design that has been discussed is that there is a lack of contingency beyond the multiple layers of redundancy built into the control of these stations.

Yes, there are backups to backups, but where the contingency ends is where it really needs to be thought out. What if everything fails? How do we approach this thing to battle it in the event of massive gamma fields? Do we bury lines that we can pump concrete slurry through? Do we forsake easy access to water and instead of building on the shore, we build 20 miles inland and trench in a sufficient water way so that tsunamis are not an issue? Should there be piping laid into the ground with contingent undermining so that containment can be continuously and incrementally beefed up in the event of a melt down?

I think after this, if nuclear energy has a future, you will see these issues being discussed. Again, jmho.


It seems nuclear power wasnt thought through enough and now we cope the out come(we includes the Japanese).

What a joke........Ive always hated nuclear power and you would think the Japanese would have had more sense after they got bombed by nucs.

[mick silver]

what i would like to see is the leader of the n company there with the owners out there pissing on the fires also

[po boy]

This is a Nat Geo segment of spent fuel rods going critical. It starts around 2:50 mark? I watched it yesterday. I don't quite remember the start time. Due to the fact that the first minute tells lies about birds, I don't know if the remainder of the program has any credibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGQBE-EKcjo&feature=player_embedded



Well if that doesn't just make ya smile...

[bellevuebully]

One more thought.

What I am seeing with the whole issue of design that has been discussed is that there is a lack of contingency beyond the multiple layers of redundancy built into the control of these stations.

Yes, there are backups to backups, but where the contingency ends is where it really needs to be thought out. What if everything fails? How do we approach this thing to battle it in the event of massive gamma fields? Do we bury lines that we can pump concrete slurry through? Do we forsake easy access to water and instead of building on the shore, we build 20 miles inland and trench in a sufficient water way so that tsunamis are not an issue? Should there be piping laid into the ground with contingent undermining so that containment can be continuously and incrementally beefed up in the event of a melt down?

I think after this, if nuclear energy has a future, you will see these issues being discussed. Again, jmho.


It seems nuclear power wasnt thought through enough and now we cope the out come(we includes the Japanese).

What a joke........Ive always hated nuclear power and you would think the Japanese would have had more sense after they got bombed by nucs.


Like I mentioned Serpo...I think if nuclear has a future (which I do, because the alternatives just are not there for baseline load), I suspect you will be seeing more discussion on the backup plan for catastrophic failure. It has proven to be the proverbial chink in the armour, as proven by this event.

[Serpo]

Workers are now pissing on the rods in hopes to cool them down.


Yeah, well.... some of their DNA got into the seawater with the special "minerals" and look what came out-

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/_images/fishface3.jpg







And watch out for these.......

[Serpo]

One more thought.

What I am seeing with the whole issue of design that has been discussed is that there is a lack of contingency beyond the multiple layers of redundancy built into the control of these stations.

Yes, there are backups to backups, but where the contingency ends is where it really needs to be thought out. What if everything fails? How do we approach this thing to battle it in the event of massive gamma fields? Do we bury lines that we can pump concrete slurry through? Do we forsake easy access to water and instead of building on the shore, we build 20 miles inland and trench in a sufficient water way so that tsunamis are not an issue? Should there be piping laid into the ground with contingent undermining so that containment can be continuously and incrementally beefed up in the event of a melt down?

I think after this, if nuclear energy has a future, you will see these issues being discussed. Again, jmho.


It seems nuclear power wasnt thought through enough and now we cope the out come(we includes the Japanese).

What a joke........Ive always hated nuclear power and you would think the Japanese would have had more sense after they got bombed by nucs.


Like I mentioned Serpo...I think if nuclear has a future (which I do, because the alternatives just are not there for baseline load), I suspect you will be seeing more discussion on the backup plan for catastrophic failure. It has proven to be the proverbial chink in the armour, as proven by this event.


The thing is ,its not worth it ,power I mean, if this is the price .

Safe nuclear power?????

[bellevuebully]

Off to bed.

Give your loved ones a little tighter hug tonight and appreciate what we have here right now compared to the folks in Japan. Cherish every moment of relative peace, and take every opportunity to be thankful. Much of the world right now is in suffering.

God bless all, hope the dawn finds you all well.

[bellevuebully]

The thing is ,its not worth it ,power I mean, if this is the price .

Safe nuclear power?????


I've lived most of my life in simple means. I would have very little problem going back 100 years in tech. If we could live with way less power (consumerism) and have the benefits of modern health, science....I'd be fine with that. I'm just say'n, I didn't see that option on the ballet.

Take care serpo, nite.

[solid]

I'd like to volunteer to help the folks in Japan. If you all come across anything, please let me know. I'd appreciate it. I've come up empty handed searching the web for ways to help. I have no commitments, and my job would support the time off.

[Santa]

what i would like to see is the leader of the n company there with the owners out there pissing on the fires also


That would be TEPCO.


Tokyo Electric to Build US Nuclear Plants
The no-BS info on Japan's disastrous nuclear operators

Monday, March 14, 2011

for Truthout/Buzzflash

by Greg Palast
Texas plants planned by Tokyo Electric. Image:NINA

I need to speak to you, not as a reporter, but in my former capacity as lead investigator in several government nuclear plant fraud and racketeering investigations.

I don't know the law in Japan, so I can't tell you if Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) can plead insanity to the homicides about to happen.

But what will Obama plead? The Administration, just months ago, asked Congress to provide a $4 billion loan guarantee for two new nuclear reactors to be built and operated on the Gulf Coast of Texas — by Tokyo Electric Power and local partners. As if the Gulf hasn't suffered enough.

Here are the facts about Tokyo Electric and the industry you haven't heard on CNN:

The failure of emergency systems at Japan's nuclear plants comes as no surprise to those of us who have worked in the field.

Nuclear plants the world over must be certified for what is called "SQ" or "Seismic Qualification." That is, the owners swear that all components are designed for the maximum conceivable shaking event, be it from an earthquake or an exploding Christmas card from Al Qaeda.

The most inexpensive way to meet your SQ is to lie. The industry does it all the time. The government team I worked with caught them once, in 1988, at the Shoreham plant in New York. Correcting the SQ problem at Shoreham would have cost a cool billion, so engineers were told to change the tests from 'failed' to 'passed.'

The company that put in the false safety report? Stone & Webster, now the nuclear unit of Shaw Construction which will work with Tokyo Electric to build the Texas plant, Lord help us.

There's more.

Last night I heard CNN reporters repeat the official line that the tsunami disabled the pumps needed to cool the reactors, implying that water unexpectedly got into the diesel generators that run the pumps.

These safety back-up systems are the 'EDGs' in nuke-speak: Emergency Diesel Generators. That they didn't work in an emergency is like a fire department telling us they couldn't save a building because "it was on fire."

What dim bulbs designed this system? One of the reactors dancing with death at Fukushima Station 1 was built by Toshiba. Toshiba was also an architect of the emergency diesel system.

Now be afraid. Obama's $4 billion bail-out-in-the-making is called the South Texas Project. It's been sold as a red-white-and-blue way to make power domestically with a reactor from Westinghouse, a great American brand. However, the reactor will be made substantially in Japan by the company that bought the US brand name, Westinghouse — Toshiba.

I once had a Toshiba computer. I only had to send it in once for warranty work. However, it's kind of hard to mail back a reactor with the warranty slip inside the box if the fuel rods are melted and sinking halfway to the earth's core.

TEPCO and Toshiba don't know what my son learned in 8th grade science class: tsunamis follow Pacific Rim earthquakes. So these companies are real stupid, eh? Maybe. More likely is that the diesels and related systems wouldn't have worked on a fine, dry afternoon.

Back in the day, when we checked the emergency back-up diesels in America, a mind-blowing number flunked. At the New York nuke, for example, the builders swore under oath that their three diesel engines were ready for an emergency. They'd been tested. The tests were faked, the diesels run for just a short time at low speed. When the diesels were put through a real test under emergency-like conditions, the crankshaft on the first one snapped in about an hour, then the second and third. We nicknamed the diesels, "Snap, Crackle and Pop."

(Note: Moments after I wrote that sentence, word came that two of three diesels failed at the Tokai Station as well.)

In the US, we supposedly fixed our diesels after much complaining by the industry. But in Japan, no one tells Tokyo Electric to do anything the Emperor of Electricity doesn't want to do.

I get lots of confidential notes from nuclear industry insiders. One engineer, a big name in the field, is especially concerned that Obama waved the come-hither check to Toshiba and Tokyo Electric to lure them to America. The US has a long history of whistleblowers willing to put themselves on the line to save the public. In our racketeering case in New York, the government only found out about the seismic test fraud because two courageous engineers, Gordon Dick and John Daly, gave our team the documentary evidence.

In Japan, it's simply not done. The culture does not allow the salary-men, who work all their their lives for one company, to drop the dime.

Not that US law is a wondrous shield: both engineers in the New York case were fired and blacklisted by the industry. Nevertheless, the government (local, state, federal) brought civil racketeering charges against the builders. The jury didn't buy the corporation's excuses and, in the end, the plant was, thankfully, dismantled.

Am I on some kind of xenophobic anti-Nippon crusade? No. In fact, I'm far more frightened by the American operators in the South Texas nuclear project, especially Shaw. Stone & Webster, now the Shaw nuclear division, was also the firm that conspired to fake the EDG tests in New York. (The company's other exploits have been exposed by their former consultant, John Perkins, in his book, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.)
If the planet wants to shiver, consider this: Toshiba and Shaw have recently signed a deal to become world-wide partners in the construction of nuclear stations.

The other characters involved at the South Texas Plant that Obama is backing should also give you the willies. But as I'm in the middle of investigating the American partners, I'll save that for another day.

So, if we turned to America's own nuclear contractors, would we be safe? Well, two of the melting Japanese reactors, including the one whose building blew sky high, were built by General Electric of the Good Old US of A.

After Texas, you're next. The Obama Administration is planning a total of $56 billion in loans for nuclear reactors all over America.

And now, the homicides:

CNN is only interested in body counts, how many workers burnt by radiation, swept away or lost in the explosion. These plants are now releasing radioactive steam into the atmosphere. Be skeptical about the statements that the "levels are not dangerous." These are the same people who said these meltdowns could never happen. Over years, not days, there may be a thousand people, two thousand, ten thousand who will suffer from cancers induced by this radiation.

In my New York investigation, I had the unhappy job of totaling up post-meltdown "morbidity" rates for the county government. It would be irresponsible for me to estimate the number of cancer deaths that will occur from these releases without further information; but it is just plain criminal for the Tokyo Electric shoguns to say that these releases are not dangerous. Indeed, the fact that residents near the Japanese nuclear plants were not issued iodine pills to keep at the ready shows TEPCO doesn't care who lives and who dies whether in Japan or the USA. The carcinogenic isotopes that are released at Fukushima are already floating to Seattle with effects we simply cannot measure.

Heaven help us. Because Obama won't.

***

[sirgonzo420]

Yes, there are backups to backups, but where the contingency ends is where it really needs to be thought out. What if everything fails? How do we approach this thing to battle it in the event of massive gamma fields? Do we bury lines that we can pump concrete slurry through? Do we forsake easy access to water and instead of building on the shore, we build 20 miles inland and trench in a sufficient water way so that tsunamis are not an issue? Should there be piping laid into the ground with contingent undermining so that containment can be continuously and incrementally beefed up in the event of a melt down?

I think after this, if nuclear energy has a future, you will see these issues being discussed. Again, jmho.

For the particular emergency at hand:
Bury nukes about 1/2 to 1/4 mile from the site, surrounding it. The nukes should be about 100 m underground. Detonate the nukes. This will cause massive amounts of dirt to go into the air, covering the site.

After the site is covered, a nuke should be buried directly beneath the power plant, to a depth deep enough that it will not rupture the ground when detonated. This nuke will crystallize the ground beneath the site, sealing out water and creating a type of glass.

I'm being completely serious.

edit: obviously they'd wait for a day when the wind would blow all the dust from the explosion out to sea


I like it!

Fight fire with fire, I always say!

lol

[Antonio]

Would simply dropping thermonukes on Japan in large quantity consume the tons of MOX they have in the reactors? Or would they still escape and fly all over? This is a very stupid question so at least my self-awareness of its stupidity should mitigate your laughing at my expense.

[sirgonzo420]

Would simply dropping thermonukes on Japan in large quantity consume the tons of MOX they have in the reactors? Or would they still escape and fly all over? This is a very stupid question so at least my self-awareness of its stupidity should mitigate your laughing at my expense.




You sir, are a fucking hoot.

Seriously.... you are (amongst other things) the comic relief around here. Your posts are like tiny christmas presents.

[Serpo]

Nuclear Power Reactors Do Not Belong on the Surface of the Earth


As the frightful nuclear crisis in Japan unfolds, with the ultimate outcome far from certain, a brief pause in the mad rush to pursue mass construction of nuclear power reactors can be witnessed. However, with the emergence of major new economic actors in the global economy, in particular China, India and Brazil, the world's demand for energy, especially electrical power generation, will continue to rise, and probably revive the policymakers' receptiveness towards atomic energy. In this drive, they are being increasingly joined by a strange new ally; environmentalists, those who classify themselves politically as left-leaning progressives, who see nuclear power as an emissions-free alternative to other forms of feeding the insatiable electrical grids of the global economy, most of which are major emitters of green house gases, believed to be the major contributor to climate change.

In 1956, the Director of the Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Alvin Weinberg, said that, "there is an understandable drive on the part of men of good will to build up the positive aspects of nuclear energy simply because the negative aspects are so distressing." His point underscored a perception by many of the leading scientific minds involved in the creation of the nuclear arsenal and militarized nuclear reactors to provide propulsion for the submarines carrying the nuclear tipped missiles that comprised the ultimate deterrent of the major powers. While supporting and contributing towards making nuclear power and atomic weapons available to military forces highly disciplined and skillfully trained in their maintenance, they harbored great reluctance to see this technology disseminated freely throughout the civilian economy. The risks of such technology being managed by civilian organizations, especially privately-owned utilities, were far too grave, in their estimation.

The uranium 235 fuel utilized in a nuclear reactor is enriched to 20 percent, unlike nuclear weapons, which require a minimum of 80 percent enrichment. This means that in an accident, an atomic detonation would not occur. However, virtually all the other evil consequences of a nuclear blast can occur in a catastrophic accident involving a nuclear power reactor. A plethora of toxic radioactive isotopes, some with a highly persistent half-life, are released into the atmosphere, soil and aquifers of surrounding areas, with frightful consequences for human beings. The economic damage resulting from widespread nuclear contamination can also be severe and long-lasting. In effect, a nuclear power reactor located within twenty or thirty kilometers of a major population center is the ultimate radiological bomb. Its promise of cheap, safe and supposedly clean electricity exists only in a parallel universe, where human failings and mistakes do not occur, terrorism is non-existent and natural disasters such as earthquakes and tsunamis do not happen. In our world, such a promise is illusory, as already demonstrated in the past at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, and now so terrifyingly underway in Japan.

Dr. Edward Teller was the inventor of America's hydrogen bomb, a weapon thousands of times more devastating than the atomic bomb that destroyed Hiroshima. He was politically a rightwing hawk during the Cold War, and strongly supported the buildup of America's nuclear arsenal, including the development of nuclear reactors for military purposes. However, this genius of nuclear physics had a far different view when it came to building nuclear reactors as a means of generating electricity for widespread civilian use. In 1965 Teller stated, "In principle, nuclear reactors are dangerous... In my mind, nuclear reactors do not belong on the surface of the earth. Nuclear reactors belong underground."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sheldon-filger/nuclear-power-reactors-do_b_836748.html

[Neuro]

A kilometer or two down the stable ground should be a safe place to put a nuclear reactor...

[Awoke]

Well chit....Im still not gonna worry.....it is what it is......

It is a drag...and I hope there isn't a lot of suffering.... :(

I don't have time to worry about chit that I can't do anything about....

Im going out to enjoy the sunset in my garden now...Love you guys! :-*
That's a decent attitude, really... especially for a guy who likes to spend a lot of time in the same water that laps the Japanese shores and eats from a garden fed from rain that may be soon toxic.
I don't worry about it because I can't control it but I am certainly not denying it which is easy to say for a guy on the complete opposite side of the continent from you.
I have faith that this all part of God's plan but it doesn't mean it is all sunsets and puppy dogs.


That's not very fair of you to go off on Ken like that.

We all feel terrible for what the people of Japan are going through, and for what the rest of the world is going to go through from this catastrophe. If Ken's coping mechanism is going out to his garden and enjoying the sunset, so be it. I don't see where you get off trying to plant a guilty conscience on him for that.

I could be wrong, but I am willing to bet that Ken is putting in a lot more heartfelt prayertime for Japan than a lot of other people throughout the world.




There have been man-made global injustices going on since long before you were born. I don't see you giving up you cheeseburger and flying out to africa to dig a well.

Have you watched a sunset and cuddled with a puppy while this kid and his family starved?

http://nreusch.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/starving-african-children-aids.jpg

How is your cheeseburger now?

[Neuro]

Would simply dropping thermonukes on Japan in large quantity consume the tons of MOX they have in the reactors? Or would they still escape and fly all over? This is a very stupid question so at least my self-awareness of its stupidity should mitigate your laughing at my expense.


It is certainly worth a try! It may be that the few thousand tons of U238 in the spent fuel rods combined with a few million degrees of heat in a Hydrogen bomb will chain react, despite popular notion that they don't... If it doesn't work, most of humanitys problems will be resolved anyway... ;D

[G2Rad]

Chernobil had 6 millions curie of radioactivity in total.
2 million curie got airbone and contaminated vast areas
Japs reactors hold 150-180 millions curie potentialy
that is much more than Chernobil had

[bellevuebully]

Chernobil had 6 millions curie of radioactivity in total.
2 million curie got airbone and contaminated vast areas
Japs reactors hold 150-180 millions curie potentialy
that is much more than Chernobil had


That's what I reckoned. Thanks. How long before the news reports that?

[Buddha]

I'll take a page out of Ken's book. It's almost 8 am here, having a beer (it's St. Patrick's day for Christ's sake!). I'm cooking a big breakfast for myself, eggs, bacon, potatoes, toast. I may or may not have to work in about 3 hours, either way it's all good. I'm not a religious man but I feel truly blessed to have life as good as it is, which is by our standards "working poor" condition. It's good to enjoy what you have, for we may not have it for long.

Now back to your regularly scheduled DOOOM. Oh, and it is DOOOM with 3 O's with what is going on.

[SLV^GLD]

Well chit....Im still not gonna worry.....it is what it is......

It is a drag...and I hope there isn't a lot of suffering.... :(

I don't have time to worry about chit that I can't do anything about....

Im going out to enjoy the sunset in my garden now...Love you guys! :-*
That's a decent attitude, really... especially for a guy who likes to spend a lot of time in the same water that laps the Japanese shores and eats from a garden fed from rain that may be soon toxic.
I don't worry about it because I can't control it but I am certainly not denying it which is easy to say for a guy on the complete opposite side of the continent from you.
I have faith that this all part of God's plan but it doesn't mean it is all sunsets and puppy dogs.


That's not very fair of you to go off on Ken like that.

We all feel terrible for what the people of Japan are going through, and for what the rest of the world is going to go through from this catastrophe. If Ken's coping mechanism is going out to his garden and enjoying the sunset, so be it. I don't see where you get off trying to plant a guilty conscience on him for that.

I could be wrong, but I am willing to bet that Ken is putting in a lot more heartfelt prayertime for Japan than a lot of other people throughout the world.




There have been man-made global injustices going on since long before you were born. I don't see you giving up you cheeseburger and flying out to africa to dig a well.

Have you watched a sunset and cuddled with a puppy while this kid and his family starved?

How is your cheeseburger now?


Yeah? I wasn't "going off". I was being dead serious. Our respective attitudes towards this disaster are all very much a function of our relative insulation from it. What I was trying to convey is that I am impressed Ken isn't worried about something that has a real probability of ruining his enjoyment of the ocean and the food he grows in his garden. In the same train of thought it's easy for me to just see this as God's plan because other than the tangential effects of economic woe I do not have any direct, toxic effects to fear because I am on the other side of the continent. If I were in Ken's shoes I'm not so sure I would have the view I can enjoy from here. My final statement is that I beleive God's plan to involve a great deal of crisis and suffering.

Now that I've defended my position hopefully you can see my words for what they are instead of some veiled attack on a fellow member. I'll further defend your arguments against my person by pointing out that I am actually going through the training and screening process to become a first responder for ShelterBox (http://www.shelterbox.org/). So, yeah, I AM giving up a cheeseburger or two to "fly out to Africa to dig a well" (so to speak). When this whole Japan nuclear crisis developed I realized the shitpot I might be getting in to. I'd be happy to jump to Japan to deliver aid for tsunami relief but I have serious reservations about jumping to Japan to receive lethal doses of radiation. Hence my attitude that it is impressive that Ken isn't too concerned about an irradiated environment over there on his coast.

Got anymore shit you wanna sling my way?

[ArgenteumTelum]

SLV^GLD,

Out of curiosity, I visited the Shelter Box site. A beautiful idea. Kudos to you for your involvement. More kudos for your heart and character.

[DMac]

There have been man-made global injustices going on since long before you were born. I don't see you giving up you cheeseburger and flying out to africa to dig a well.



Awoke,

Off-topic, but regardless, I know the person that founded this charity - they dig wells in Africa. I regularly donate and hope some of you will too. They are the real deal.

http://www.charitywater.org

Regards and back to our regularly scheduled dOOOm.

[Large Sarge]

Chernobil had 6 millions curie of radioactivity in total.
2 million curie got airbone and contaminated vast areas
Japs reactors hold 150-180 millions curie potentialy
that is much more than Chernobil had


looking for a source to confirm these numbers

googled it, found "6 million at this reactor" & "13 million at this reactor"

(which is not small)

wondering where you found these figures??
\

[Horn]

Workers are now pissing on the rods in hopes to cool them down.


I saw some of those helicopter drops of sea water, and thought to myself "that's a nice way to put salt on a huge shit sandwich"

[Serpo]

This is a good article on a wide range of events


http://beforeitsnews.com/story/488/307/Global_Financial_Markets_Plunge_As_The_World_Watch es_Japan_Descend_Into_A_Nuclear_Nightmare.html


quote....

The Fukushima Daiichi plant has seven pools dedicated to spent fuel rods. These are located at the top of six reactor buildings – or were until explosions and fires ravaged the plant. On the ground level there is a common pool in a separate building that was critically damaged by the tsunami. Each reactor building pool holds 3,450 fuel rod assemblies and the common pool holds 6,291 fuel rod assemblies. Each assembly holds sixty-three fuel rods. In short, the Fukushima Daiichi plant contains over 600,000 spent fuel rods – a massive amount of radiation that will soon be released into the atmosphere.

Each of these 600,000 spent fuel rods is a potential "dirty bomb".

It is absolutely critical that all of these spent fuel rods remain submerged in water.

If the water drops in the spent fuel pools there will be nothing to keep the spent fuel rods cool and they will start to degrade very, very quickly.

Unfortunately, things don't look good right now. U.S. authorities today expressed their belief that the spent fuel rods in unit 4 are now exposed and that a great deal of radiation is being released. In fact, Gregory Jaczko, the chairman of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, stated during Congressional testimony today that he believes that an extremely high level of radiation is being released by exposed spent fuel rods at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear facility at this point....

We believe that radiation levels are extremely high, which could possibly impact the ability to take corrective measures.

It would be hard to understate the courage of those that are working inside the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear facility right now. They all likely realize that they are all going to die very quickly. They are laying down their lives in an effort to save their countrymen. According to a recent report from CBS News these workers say that they are not afraid to die....

Although communication with the workers inside the nuclear plant is nearly impossible, a CBS News consultant spoke to a Japanese official who made contact with one of the workers inside the control center.

The official said that his friend told him that he was not afraid to die, that that was his job.

Would all of us respond the same way?

Even the media that are reporting on this disaster in Japan are starting to be affected by this radiation. Lester Holt revealed this morning that his entire crew had tested positive for radiation after returning from an assignment.

[Awoke]

Please accept my apolgy, SLV^GLD. I took your post way out of context.

I am sorry about that.

[Serpo]

Workers are now pissing on the rods in hopes to cool them down.


I saw some of those helicopter drops of sea water, and thought to myself "that's a nice way to put salt on a huge shit sandwich"


It dosnt appear to be in the manual

Basically improvise on the run when so much is at stake

[Serpo]

What happens if they have to evacuate TOKYO, my God what a mess, the biggest city on earth.

Global Financial Markets Plunge As The World Watches Japan Descend Into A Nuclear Nightmare

Global financial markets are in turmoil as the situation in Japan continues to deteriorate. Stock markets are plunging all over the world as investors flock to investments that are considered to be safer. The 9.0 earthquake and the unprecedented tsunami in Japan would have been more than enough to spook investors and unleash chaos on world financial markets, but now the unfolding nightmare at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear facility is really starting to cause panic. Right now there is a mass exodus out of the city of Tokyo. But not everyone can leave the city. There are over 30 million people living in and around Tokyo. So where in the world could you possibly put 30 million refugees? Sadly, the truth is that millions of Japanese are going to stay in Tokyo no matter how high the radiation gets. Let us hope that Japanese authorities can get the situation at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear facility under control, but the fact that they have resorted to dropping water from helicopters and shooting water cannons at these nuclear reactors is not comforting

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/

[Buddha]

What happens if they have to evacuate TOKYO, my God what a mess, the biggest city on earth.

Global Financial Markets Plunge As The World Watches Japan Descend Into A Nuclear Nightmare

Global financial markets are in turmoil as the situation in Japan continues to deteriorate. Stock markets are plunging all over the world as investors flock to investments that are considered to be safer. The 9.0 earthquake and the unprecedented tsunami in Japan would have been more than enough to spook investors and unleash chaos on world financial markets, but now the unfolding nightmare at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear facility is really starting to cause panic. Right now there is a mass exodus out of the city of Tokyo. But not everyone can leave the city. There are over 30 million people living in and around Tokyo. So where in the world could you possibly put 30 million refugees? Sadly, the truth is that millions of Japanese are going to stay in Tokyo no matter how high the radiation gets. Let us hope that Japanese authorities can get the situation at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear facility under control, but the fact that they have resorted to dropping water from helicopters and shooting water cannons at these nuclear reactors is not comforting

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/


Jesus DOW is up 133 points and rapidly climbing. What do they know?

Edit: What are they pumping it up with :)

[DMac]

Good article on radiation hitting the US, cites NYTimes among others. Good news is that plutonium radiation is not likely to reach the US. Bad news is that radiation is headed our way.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/un-radiation-hit-us-friday

[DMac]

Some German university put up a gif of expected radiation path to the US:

http://db.eurad.uni-koeln.de/prognose/data/alert/cs_hem_1h_movtotal_16.gif

[osoab]

Looks like a loop of a UAV flyover of the reactor site. Kind of jumpy with the camera. Gives a good idea of the damage.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/iwj7

[bellevuebully]

SLV^GLD,

Out of curiosity, I visited the Shelter Box site. A beautiful idea. Kudos to you for your involvement. More kudos for your heart and character.


If anyone knows or hears of any good relief efforts that are ongoing, please post them here for everyone to view. If this thing gets as bad as I think it could, I can see a the need for refugee sponsership. There is almost 30 million people in Tokyo alone. Where the heck would those folks go? If anyone hears of anything along these lines, let us know. I haven't seen anything like this yet, but if things escalate, it could spring up.

[osoab]

Looks like a loop of a UAV flyover of the reactor site. Kind of jumpy with the camera. Gives a good idea of the damage.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/iwj7


Youtube vid of part of the flyover. The video was taken in a SDF helicopter by a TEPKO employee from what I have been reading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lBXqiw6EJUk

[mick silver]

were are all the drones we pay for ... oh that right over sea in a war

[solid]

I am actually going through the training and screening process to become a first responder for ShelterBox (http://www.shelterbox.org/).


SLV, this looks like something I'd like to get involved with. The website is pretty vague though, how did you get involved? I have a lot of first responder experience, miss it actually. Are you participating in the academy? I'm very interested in this.

[Awoke]

That vid is too shakey to watch imo.

[beefsteak]

SLV^GLD,

Out of curiosity, I visited the Shelter Box site. A beautiful idea. Kudos to you for your involvement. More kudos for your heart and character.


If anyone knows or hears of any good relief efforts that are ongoing, please post them here for everyone to view. If this thing gets as bad as I think it could, I can see a the need for refugee sponsership. There is almost 30 million people in Tokyo alone. Where the heck would those folks go? If anyone hears of anything along these lines, let us know. I haven't seen anything like this yet, but if things escalate, it could spring up.

How about starting a new topic BULLY.
Acc'd to Gaillo this is supposed to be about REACTORS, not reacTIONS, not relief projects.

[DMac]

Voluntary message from Navy Captain - US Navy offering assistance for voluntary evac out of Japan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG2h4AVpo70

[cortez]

hope that camara man was wearing a lead suit :conf:

[Cobalt]

were are all the drones we pay for ... oh that right over sea in a war


The US put one in the air the other day, I saw a report with pictures of it flying over the reactors but haven't seen any video released from any of its flights yet.

[G2Rad]

Chernobil had 6 millions curie of radioactivity in total.
2 million curie got airbone and contaminated vast areas
Japs reactors hold 150-180 millions curie potentialy
that is much more than Chernobil had


looking for a source to confirm these numbers

googled it, found "6 million at this reactor" & "13 million at this reactor"

(which is not small)

wondering where you found these figures??


That number is just a guess.
Typical 700-1000 MW station works of about 500-1000 fuel rods lowered into the core.
Every two years 1/3 of these must be replaced and put in the spent-fuel pool.
After 40 years of operation the pool will hold approx. 3000-6000 spent-fuel assemblies.
Older assemblies will lose quite a bit of activity. It could be roughly estimated that 3000-6000 of assemblies “aged” from 40 to 2 years still hold up to 30 – 40 million curies.
There are 6 troubled reactors. 30 * 6 = 180 million curies.
As I said it is just a wild guess.

[DMac]

High radiation found outside Fukushima exclusion zone (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/japanese_trucks_pump_water_into_64E3Sma9ERHrJz6X0T rm1I)

snip


High radiation levels have been detected 18.6 miles (30 kilometers) from the plant, beyond the 12.4-mile (20-kilometer) zone designated by authorities, broadcaster NHK reported.

[cortez]

High radiation found outside Fukushima exclusion zone (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/japanese_trucks_pump_water_into_64E3Sma9ERHrJz6X0T rm1I)

snip


High radiation levels have been detected 18.6 miles (30 kilometers) from the plant, beyond the 12.4-mile (20-kilometer) zone designated by authorities, broadcaster NHK reported.


it looks like maybe they got 5 & 6 back on.generator now working????

[Cobalt]

Chernobil had 6 millions curie of radioactivity in total.
2 million curie got airbone and contaminated vast areas
Japs reactors hold 150-180 millions curie potentialy
that is much more than Chernobil had


looking for a source to confirm these numbers

googled it, found "6 million at this reactor" & "13 million at this reactor"

(which is not small)

wondering where you found these figures??


That number is just a guess.
Typical 700-1000 MW station works of about 500-1000 fuel rods lowered into the core.
Every two years 1/3 of these must be replaced and put in the spent-fuel pool.
After 40 years of operation the pool will hold approx. 3000-6000 spent-fuel assemblies.
Older assemblies will lose quite a bit of activity. It could be roughly estimated that 3000-6000 of assemblies “aged” from 40 to 2 years still hold up to 30 – 40 million curies.
There are 6 troubled reactors. 30 * 6 = 180 million curies.
As I said it is just a wild guess.



The figures I saw showed the reactors there use 43 rods per assembly

[MarchHare]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j6qVMUueu8

[G2Rad]

here is somebody else eslimated one pool to hold 20-50 million curie

the link (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-03-14/japan-nuclear-meltdown-fears-spent-fuel-could-pose-new-danger?cid=bsa:relatedstories2:4)


Of particular concern: cesium-137 in the pool, at levels Alvarez estimates at 20 million to 50 million curies. The 1986 Chernobyl accident released about 40 percent of the reactor core’s 6 million curies. In a 1997 report for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, scientists at Brookhaven National Laboratory estimated that a severe pool fire—made possible by the loss of cooling water—could leave about 188 square miles uninhabitable and cause up to 28,000 cancer deaths.

[G2Rad]

Robert Alvarez, a senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies and a senior policy adviser to the secretary of energy and deputy assistant secretary for national security and the environment from 1993 to 1999

[G2Rad]

just google "curie spent fuel pond"

[DMac]

That's a frightening article G2Rad

[G2Rad]

spent fuel ponds hold five-to-ten times more long-lived radioactivity than a reactor core

half life of cesium-137 is 30 years

the stuff gets absorbed in the food chain as if it were potassium

wild animals, f.e. canadian goose may scoop it there and poop it here

[DMac]

The article is only referencing the dangers of ONE spent fuel rod pool. Aren't there between 2-6 such pools?

[Cobalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j6qVMUueu8


The guy has every right to be pissed for the gubment not releasing any info but he also has internet connection since he was able to post youtube so if I was reading all the shit going on where I was and the gubment was showing me pizza commercials like he says they are I would me moving out

[G2Rad]

That's a frightening article G2Rad


those kind of reactors, with those kind of spent junk accumulated over decades in the pools are every where here in the USA

if such a pool dries off, for any reason, at any of those stations, ......... 30 million curies are 13 Chernobils

once ignited, it is nearly impossible to extinguish

previous generations left all that junk to us, because they were certain that our generation will solve this problem

[G2Rad]

The article is only referencing the dangers of ONE spent fuel rod pool. Aren't there between 2-6 such pools?


yes. yesterday I guessed one pool to hold about 30 mln curies.
times six will give 150-180 million curies
compare that to 2 million curies released by Chernobyl
spent fuel pools are much more serious problem than melting of cores

[DMac]

The article is only referencing the dangers of ONE spent fuel rod pool. Aren't there between 2-6 such pools?


yes. yesterday I guessed one pool to be at 30 mln.
times six will give 150-180 million curies
compare that to 2 million of Chernobyl
spent fuel pools are much more serious than melting of cores


This is madness.

[Cobalt]

That's a frightening article G2Rad


those kind of reactors, with those kind of spent junk accumulated over decades in the pools are every where here in the USA

if such a pool dries off, for any reason, at any of those stations, ......... 30 million curies are 13 Chernobils

once ignited, it is nearly impossible to extinguish

previous generations left all that junk to us, because they were certain that our generation will solve this problem



That is the problem with Nuke power, No One has seriously addressed the waste issue, they put the waste that they know will be toxic for centuries into tanks with a life expectancy of maybe 50 years and hope the next guy comes up with a better solution that isn't going to cost so much that it makes Nuke power so expensive it isn't an option.

Go over to the Hanford Nuke reservation here in Wa and you will find some of the most toxic shit man has ever created leaking from buried tanks and it has been for decades.

You will be instructed while working there that if a tumble weed comes blowing across the field at you, move aside and let it pass because it is high probability that it is contaminated, the roots sucked up water that was contaminated from the leaking tanks.
They kill coyotes because the jack rabbits eat the radioactive vegetation, then the coyotes eat contaminated jack rabbits and go off the reservation and take a contaminated shit.

When we have to fear coyotes living out in the middle of a desert taking a shit you know it is fukked up

[sirgonzo420]

The article is only referencing the dangers of ONE spent fuel rod pool. Aren't there between 2-6 such pools?


yes. yesterday I guessed one pool to be at 30 mln.
times six will give 150-180 million curies
compare that to 2 million of Chernobyl
spent fuel pools are much more serious than melting of cores


This is madness.


No, this is Sparta.

http://xspblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/this-is-sparta-7.jpg

[G2Rad]

they put the waste that they know will be toxic for centuries into tanks with a life expectancy of maybe 50 years and hope the next guy comes up with a better solution that isn't going to cost so much that it makes Nuke power so expensive it isn't an option.


Cobalt, that's the philosophy of baby-boom generation.
They spent the inheritance of our grandfathers and mortgaged future of children ( and children's children ), meanwhile having prosperity and good time.
Party is over, factories are sold to China, mountains of accumulated debt will go to children.
Children will pay for their good time.
Stick it to the suckers.

[zap]

Only low levels of radiation, No worries. ( yet )


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42126026/ns/world_news-asiapacific/?GT1=43001
VIENNA — Low concentrations of radioactive particles are heading eastwards from Japan's disaster-hit nuclear power plant and are expected to reach North America in days, a Swedish official said Thursday.
Lars-Erik De Geer, research director at the Swedish Defence Research Institute, a government agency, was citing data from a network of international monitoring stations established to detect signs of any nuclear weapons tests.
Stressing that the levels were not dangerous for people, he predicted the particles would continue across the Atlantic and eventually also reach Europe.
"It is not something you see normally," he said by phone from Stockholm. But, "it is not high from any danger point of view."
He said he was convinced it would eventually be detected over the whole northern hemisphere.
"It is only a question of very, very low activities so it is nothing for people to worry about," De Geer said.
U.S. boosts radiation-sniffing system
"In the past when they had nuclear weapons tests in China ... then there were similar clouds all the time without anybody caring about it at all," he said.


Before he spoke, the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission advised any Americans living near Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear plant to move at least 50 miles away but it played down the risks of contamination to the United States.
"All the available information continues to indicate Hawaii, Alaska, the U.S. Territories and the U.S. West Coast are not expected to experience any harmful levels of radioactivity," it said in a statement on Wednesday.
De Geer was commenting on data from the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organisation (CTBTO), a Vienna-based independent body for monitoring possible breaches of the test ban.
He said he believed the radioactive particles would "eventually also come here."


The CTBTO has more than 60 stations around the world which can pick up very low levels of radioactive particles such as cesium and iodine isotopes.
it continuously provides data to its member states, including Sweden, but does not make the details public.
The New York Times said a CTBTO forecast of the possible movement of the radioactive plume showed it churning across the Pacific, and touching the Aleutian Islands on Thursday before hitting southern California late on Friday.


It said health and nuclear experts emphasized that radiation would be diluted as it travelled and at worst would have extremely minor health consequences in the United States.
In a similar way, radiation from the Chernobyl disaster in 1986 spread around the globe and reached the west coast of the United States in 10 days, its levels measurable but minuscule, the newspaper said. The CTBTO projection gave no information about actual radiation levels but only showed how a radioactive plume would probably move and disperse, it said.

[DMac]

Tokyo Passengers Trigger U.S. Airport Detectors, N.Y. Post Says (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-17/tokyo-passengers-trigger-u-s-airport-detectors-n-y-post-says.html)


Radiation detectors at Dallas-Fort Worth and Chicago O’Hare airports were triggered when passengers from flights that started in Tokyo passed through customs, the New York Post reported.

Tests at Dallas-Fort Worth indicated low radiation levels in travelers’ luggage and in the aircraft’s cabin filtration system; no passengers were quarantined, the newspaper said.

Details of the incident at O’Hare weren’t immediately clear, the Post said.

[G2Rad]

chinese nuke test is nothing

one spent fuel pool has more Cesium-137 than was deposited by all the atmospheric nuclear weapons tests in North America combined

[G2Rad]

59,000 MTHM (metric tons of heavy metal) of commercial spent fuel is in storage (water pools) across the USA, in 35 states.
This stock of fuel is growing at the rate of about 2,000 MTHM annually.

[Neuro]

59,000 MTHM (metric tons of heavy metal) of commercial spent fuel is in storage (water pools) across the USA, in 35 states.
This stock of fuel is growing at the rate of about 2,000 MTHM annually.
Well you got rid of at least 9 years worth of hassle in the Iraq and Yugoslav wars...

[G2Rad]

there are about 100 filled spent-fuel pools in USA

http://www.nrc.gov/images/waste/spent-fuel-storage/fig044.gif

source (http://www.nrc.gov/waste/spent-fuel-storage/nuc-fuel-pool.html)

[vacuum]

there are about 100 filled spent-fuel pools in USA

http://www.nrc.gov/images/waste/spent-fuel-storage/fig044.gif

source (http://www.nrc.gov/waste/spent-fuel-storage/nuc-fuel-pool.html)


Ok, so what if there was an economic collapse? What if the dollar became worth nothing and the government collapsed? What happens when the workers at those plants can't be paid, or the infrastructure to support them disappears (like food, and fuel for trucks)? What happens if there is a bio attack and they leave the country?

[DMac]

Japan Churns Through ‘Heroic’ Workers Hitting Radiation Limits (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-17/japan-churns-through-heroic-workers-hitting-radiation-limits-for-humans.html)

snip


More workers were drafted for the frontline of Japan’s biggest nuclear disaster as radiation limits forced Tokyo Electric Power Co. to replace members of its original team trying to avert a nuclear meltdown.

The utility increased its workforce at the Fukushima Dai- Ichi plant to 322 yesterday from 180 on March 16 as it tried to douse water over exposed nuclear fuel rods to prevent melting and leaking lethal radiation. Levels beside the exposed rods would deliver a fatal dose in 16 seconds, said David Lochbaum, a nuclear physicist for the Union of Concerned Scientists and a former U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission safety instructor.

The permissible cumulative radiation exposure was more than doubled two days ago to extend the time nuclear workers could legally spend onsite

[G2Rad]

there are about 100 filled spent-fuel pools in USA

http://www.nrc.gov/images/waste/spent-fuel-storage/fig044.gif

source (http://www.nrc.gov/waste/spent-fuel-storage/nuc-fuel-pool.html)


Ok, so what if there was an economic collapse? What if the dollar became worth nothing and the government collapsed? What happens when the workers at those plants can't be paid, or the infrastructure to support them disappears (like food, and fuel for trucks)? What happens if there is a bio attack and they leave the country?


the water in the pools must be cooled at all time, unless it boils off
so, no economic collapsees allowed. everything in the future is thought to be honky dory.
Note that when all those pools were designed 40 years ago, they were thought to be temporary storage before the radioactive waste goes to Yucca Mountain for permanet storage for 10,000 years. the Yucca Mountain Project was terminated by a lawsuit years ago. too dangerous. therefore the waste was left to sit next to the major cities

[DMac]

there are about 100 filled spent-fuel pools in USA

http://www.nrc.gov/images/waste/spent-fuel-storage/fig044.gif

source (http://www.nrc.gov/waste/spent-fuel-storage/nuc-fuel-pool.html)


Ok, so what if there was an economic collapse? What if the dollar became worth nothing and the government collapsed? What happens when the workers at those plants can't be paid, or the infrastructure to support them disappears (like food, and fuel for trucks)? What happens if there is a bio attack and they leave the country?


What if the power goes down for more than a couple days?

Go long geiger counters and KI pills. Then GTFO of North America.

[G2Rad]

there are about 100 filled spent-fuel pools in USA

http://www.nrc.gov/images/waste/spent-fuel-storage/fig044.gif

source (http://www.nrc.gov/waste/spent-fuel-storage/nuc-fuel-pool.html)


Ok, so what if there was an economic collapse? What if the dollar became worth nothing and the government collapsed? What happens when the workers at those plants can't be paid, or the infrastructure to support them disappears (like food, and fuel for trucks)? What happens if there is a bio attack and they leave the country?


What if the power goes down for more than a couple days?

Go long geiger counters and KI pills. Then GTFO of North America.


diesel generator must kick in

[vacuum]

there are about 100 filled spent-fuel pools in USA

http://www.nrc.gov/images/waste/spent-fuel-storage/fig044.gif

source (http://www.nrc.gov/waste/spent-fuel-storage/nuc-fuel-pool.html)


Ok, so what if there was an economic collapse? What if the dollar became worth nothing and the government collapsed? What happens when the workers at those plants can't be paid, or the infrastructure to support them disappears (like food, and fuel for trucks)? What happens if there is a bio attack and they leave the country?


the water in the pools must be cooled at all time, unless it boils off
so, not economic collapsees allowed. everything will be honky dory. Note that all those pools 40 years ago were thought to be temporary storage before radioactive waste goes to Yucca Mountain to permanet storage for 10,000 years. the Yucca Mountain Project was terminated by a lawsuit years ago. too dangerous. therefore the waste was left to sit next to the major cities

It sounds like these nuclear reactors are much more dangerous than nuclear bombs. For a nuclear bomb to cause destruction someone has to give the order. For a plant to meltdown and do orders of magnitude more damage, it only takes an accident, incompetence, or poor planning.

[Ash_Williams]

Just wondering... if these spent fuel rods are giving off so much heat for so long, then why aren't they used as a power source? Is there not enough power from them to make it worthwhile?

[G2Rad]

Just wondering... if these spent fuel rods are giving off so much heat for so long, then why aren't they used as a power source? Is there not enough power from them to make it worthwhile?


not economical

[keehah]

No, this is Sparta.

More like the end of Meet the Spartans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkInPAWjtPg

[Horn]

They only give off enough energy to set themselves on fire & pollute the entire globe apparently :conf: