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Horn
17th March 2011, 12:32 PM
No, this is Sparta.

More like the end of Meet the Spartans.


So long as it gets enough air time to give the IAEA superseding legal entry to all countries, we should be O.K.

DMac
17th March 2011, 01:09 PM
Status of quake-stricken reactors at Fukushima nuclear power plants (http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/79046.html)

TOKYO, March 17, Kyodo

The following is the known status as of Thursday night of each of the six reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant and the four reactors at the Fukushima No. 2 plant, both in Fukushima Prefecture, which were crippled by Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake and the ensuing tsunami.

Fukushima No. 1 plant

-- Reactor No. 1 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, partial melting of core, vapor vented, building housing reactor damaged Saturday by hydrogen explosion, seawater being pumped in.

-- Reactor No. 2 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, seawater being pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, vapor vented, building housing reactor damaged Monday by blast at reactor No. 3, damage to containment vessel feared, potential meltdown feared.

-- Reactor No. 3 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, partial melting of core feared, vapor vented, seawater being pumped in, building housing reactor damaged Monday by hydrogen explosion, high-level radiation measured nearby on Tuesday, plume of smoke observed Wednesday and presumed to have come from spent-fuel storage pool, severe damage to containment vessel unlikely, seawater dumped over pool by helicopter on Thursday, water sprayed at it from ground.

-- Reactor No. 4 - Under maintenance when quake struck, fire Tuesday possibly caused by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, abnormal temperature rise in spent-fuel storage pool, fire observed Wednesday at building housing reactor, pool water level feared receding, renewed nuclear chain reaction feared.

-- Reactors No. 5, 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck, water temperatures in spent-fuel storage pools increased to about 64 C on Thursday.

-- Spent-fuel storage pools at all reactors -- Cooling functions lost, water temperatures or levels unobservable at reactors No. 1 to 4.

Fukushima No. 2 plant

-- Reactors No. 1, 2, 4 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, then cold shutdown.

-- Reactor No. 3 - Operation suspended after quake, cold shutdown.

==Kyodo

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 01:43 PM
renewed nuclear chain reaction feared


yes, because the "geniouses" figured out that if they wrap assemblies into neutron absorbers they can pack more of them tightly into the pool

the problem is, after assemblies dry out and catch fire, the wrap material burns out and criticality could easily be reached

of course, they never thought of such possibility (sarcasm)

oldmansmith
17th March 2011, 01:49 PM
Just wondering... if these spent fuel rods are giving off so much heat for so long, then why aren't they used as a power source? Is there not enough power from them to make it worthwhile?


not economical


Nuclear power is itself not economical. Not a single plant would be built were it not for government guarantees; no insurance company will touch a nuke plant. And then there is the unmet cost of guarding the waste for eons. A great deal for someone, I'm sure.

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 01:51 PM
renewal of chain reaction likely will pump a lot of radioactive junk up high into atmosphere

nunaem
17th March 2011, 01:52 PM
Does anyone have a link to a good explanation of what the worst case scenario would look like?

mick silver
17th March 2011, 01:52 PM
renewal of chain reaction likely will pump a lot of radioactive junk up high into atmosphere
and if this happen we are all f right or wrong

DMac
17th March 2011, 01:55 PM
Does anyone have a link to a good explanation of what the worst case scenario would look like?


In a nutshell, the nuclear fuel burns so hot it melts through the containment structure, into the bedrock and eventual water table. When it hits the water table it creates a tremendous amount of steam that explodes into the air. This sends an ungodly amount of radiation into the atmosphere for the whole world to share.

There's probably a better description but that is the worst as I understand it.

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 02:07 PM
Does anyone have a link to a good explanation of what the worst case scenario would look like?


who knows what is the worst case scenario.

world never had such a disaster before

I would guess that 100-200 million curies worth of cesium-137 has a potential of making significant part of Japs territory uninhabitable forever.

a lot of casualties (millions (?))

200 million curies is so much, that, depending on the wind direction and rain pattern, areas of US territory may also become permanently polluted

nunaem
17th March 2011, 02:11 PM
Does anyone have a link to a good explanation of what the worst case scenario would look like?


In a nutshell, the nuclear fuel burns so hot it melts through the containment structure, into the bedrock and eventual water table. When it hits the water table it creates a tremendous amount of steam that explodes into the air. This sends an ungodly amount of radiation into the atmosphere for the whole world to share.

There's probably a better description but that is the worst as I understand it.


I'm just having a hard time imagining the effects of this. Like how many may die, how many may become displaced, how far and how intense the radiation will spread if worse comes to worse. I realize nobody knows for sure how bad it could be, but there must be people out there who could make educated guesses... at least more educated than my own.

oldmansmith
17th March 2011, 02:12 PM
One of the few times it is an advantage to be on the east coast.

Out in the sun planting spinach today; the snow has melted off the sunniest part of my garden. Hard to believe things are so F-ed up on a day like this. Evenharder to believe that assholes would push this crap as "clean" energy.

Horn
17th March 2011, 02:17 PM
Does anyone have a link to a good explanation of what the worst case scenario would look like?


who knows what is the worst case scenario.

world never had such a disaster before

I would guess that 100-200 million curies worth of cesium-137 has a potential of making significant part of Japs territory uninhabitable forever.

a lot of casualties (millions (?))

200 million curies is so much, that, depending on the wind direction and rain pattern, areas of US territory may also become permanently polluted



Don't know about reaching here in potent quantities, but the local area could be polluted enough that the North Koreans finish off what's left of Japan.

Spectrism
17th March 2011, 02:23 PM
One of the few times it is an advantage to be on the east coast.

Out in the sun planting spinach today; the snow has melted off the sunniest part of my garden. Hard to believe things are so F-ed up on a day like this. Evenharder to believe that assholes would push this crap as "clean" energy.



I used to be moderately pro-nuclear power. Those were the days when I was still quite naive and actually believed that the people designing and building these things were smart (and cared) enough to do it right. Now I see everything that people touch as contaminated, corrupted and completely untrustworthy. The failed backup system was a farce.

oldmansmith
17th March 2011, 02:25 PM
One of the few times it is an advantage to be on the east coast.

Out in the sun planting spinach today; the snow has melted off the sunniest part of my garden. Hard to believe things are so F-ed up on a day like this. Evenharder to believe that assholes would push this crap as "clean" energy.



I used to be moderately pro-nuclear power. Those were the days when I was still quite naive and actually believed that the people designing and building these things were smart (and cared) enough to do it right. Now I see everything that people touch as contaminated, corrupted and completely untrustworthy. The failed backup system was a farce.


I agree Spectrism, I was too. But the fact that they have no solution for the waste and the whole thing is a government boondoggle put me in the "no-nukes" camp many years ago.

nunaem
17th March 2011, 02:26 PM
Post from GLP:


Here's how this went. . .

Japan says there's a slight problem with the cooling systems. . . then we learn they are using backup power. US says there's nothing to worry about, no radiation, no one will be harmed.

We see explosions all over the place, Japan says it's nothing to worry about, it's normal venting under the circumstances. Radiation might be slightly elevated, but nothing to worry about. US MSM tells us there's nothing to worry about, Japan knows what it is doing.

Situation deteriorates, they are using seawater to flood the plants, more reactors go kaboom. Nothing to worry about, but evacuate around the facility. US MSM reiterates there is nothing to worry about, more experts saying that everyone is overreacting.

Other countries pull out their citizens. US tells them to leave the immediate area, but no reason to flee the island. Market closes, US tells everyone to evacuate.

Since then, it's been three-stooges types attempts to deal with the situation, dropping water, shooting water at it. If that would have worked, it would have worked on Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday.

We now have official confirmation that the fuel rod pool is fucked (something we discussed on Saturday). TONS of radioactive material is stored in there, the water is gone. There is no pump to this pond, so power isn't going to do shit.

US is withdrawing -- basically fleeing. They will say whatever implausible, retarded positive thing they can say to stall for time. By the time the markets close on Friday, this will be the fucking zombie apocalypse.

If power COULD have helped this situation, then you can bet every fucking country on the planet would have been airlifting in generators on Saturday or Sunday. Do you really think this is an issue of just needing power? Seriously? And no one thought to bring in batteries, new generators, whatever?

No, this is just happy-sappy good news bullshit to buy time.

Watch. Watch. Friday after the markets close. It will be doom, doom, doom.

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 02:28 PM
Does anyone have a link to a good explanation of what the worst case scenario would look like?


who knows what is the worst case scenario.

world never had such a disaster before

I would guess that 100-200 million curies worth of cesium-137 has a potential of making significant part of Japs territory uninhabitable forever.

a lot of casualties (millions (?))

200 million curies is so much, that, depending on the wind direction and rain pattern, areas of US territory may also become permanently polluted



Don't know about reaching here in potent quantities, but the local area could be polluted enough that the North Koreans finish off what's left of Japan.


even when Chernobyl blew up there were pockets of polution created as far as Norvey and Sweden. Worst case scenario here has many fold potential of Chernobyl

Horn
17th March 2011, 02:35 PM
even when Chernobyl blew up there were pockets of polution created as far as Norvey and Sweden. Worst case scenario here has many fold potential of Chernobyl


Quantity equals potency, not travel.

1200 miles isn't the 5000 mile expanse of the Pacific.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gJaL8fInw6k/TX1q-tZmboI/AAAAAAAAMwc/_5ZiYoptTa8/s400/chernobyl%2Bmap.gif

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 02:35 PM
(I am sorry is this is offensive to Bible despisers)



you may stop reading here.





note that there are a lot of worst fornicators in CA
what if we are witnessing one-two punch to take care of both sides of the Pacific?

Large Sarge
17th March 2011, 02:37 PM
I think nuclear power could be safe,

there are design flaws in these reactors

and I suspect this earthquake/tsunami was manmade

when you have "govt terrorists" with high tech/exotic weapons, well no one is really safe

Tesla technology would work, to power the world, it would take a lot of "trial and error" to build something sturdy enough to handle that much "juice"

the alternative is geothermal, geothermal is a valid energy source

folks this is not the fault of nuclear energy, this was "poor placement" and "govt terrorists" IMO

Japan is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, and for govt terrorists who want to reduce the world population by 85%, well japan is like a nice juicy steak, mouth-watering.... and ready to serve.....

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 02:38 PM
even when Chernobyl blew up there were pockets of polution created as far as Norvey and Sweden. Worst case scenario here has many fold potential of Chernobyl


Quantity equals potency, not travel.

1200 miles isn't the 5000 mile expanse of the Pacific.


2 million Curies released by Chernobyl are small in comparison

here we are talking about 200 million Curies (worst case scenario)

that's why I said that there is a potential, despite "5000 mile expanse of the Pacific"

Large Sarge
17th March 2011, 02:40 PM
U.S. Nuke chief "I hope my info is wrong on how much radiation is coming out of Japan"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/17/501364/main20044142.shtml?source=related_story&tag=related

Horn
17th March 2011, 02:41 PM
(I am sorry is this is offensive to Bible despisers)



you may stop reading here.





note that there are a lot of worst fornicators in CA
what if we are witnessing one-two punch to take care of both sides of the Pacific?



They keep talking about the wind, but from my experience that's suggesting alot. It also has to do with the altitude speed of the wind, it creating lower level "backdraft" of particulate matter. Case in point is Chernobyl where you find acute displacement in seemingly "random" areas.

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 02:43 PM
They keep talking about the wind, but from my experience that's suggesting alot. It also has to do with the altitude speed of the wind, it creating lower level "backdraft" of particulate matter. Case in point is Chernobyl where you find acute displacement in seemingly "random" areas.


Horn, seeding rain in the Pacific is something that could be done.

nunaem
17th March 2011, 02:46 PM
Here is a really convenient compilation of different news streams to watch:

http://cpswire.com/ie/live-video-streams.html

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 02:47 PM
I am sure that the end result will be better than the worst case scenario

Large Sarge
17th March 2011, 02:48 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/16/science/plume-graphic.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=thab1

active map of plume, click to play

JohnQPublic
17th March 2011, 02:50 PM
I think nuclear power could be safe,

there are design flaws in these reactors

and I suspect this earthquake/tsunami was manmade

when you have "govt terrorists" with high tech/exotic weapons, well no one is really safe

Tesla technology would work, to power the world, it would take a lot of "trial and error" to build something sturdy enough to handle that much "juice"

the alternative is geothermal, geothermal is a valid energy source

folks this is not the fault of nuclear energy, this was "poor placement" and "govt terrorists" IMO

Japan is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, and for govt terrorists who want to reduce the world population by 85%, well japan is like a nice juicy steak, mouth-watering.... and ready to serve.....






I think the biggst issue is the technology they used in this location. In a location like this they should use "inherently safe" designs. These type of reactors (pressurized water reactors) have very high energy densities (100 W/cubic cm), while inherently safe desihgns have a lot less (3-10 typical). This means the reactors themselevs take up a lot more space, and maybe are not as responsive, but they tend to be safer. Some have low enough energy densities that even completely esposed 9i.e., no cooling) they will not melt through a reactor shell.

I think PWRs could be ok in non-earthquakle, non-tsunami and maybe non tornado zones. But, in cases of war and terrorism, anything can be unsafe.

I am definitely rethinking my support for nuclear power, but I don't think it is wise to over react at this point.

Horn
17th March 2011, 02:54 PM
They keep talking about the wind, but from my experience that's suggesting alot. It also has to do with the altitude speed of the wind, it creating lower level "backdraft" of particulate matter. Case in point is Chernobyl where you find acute displacement in seemingly "random" areas.


Horn, seeding rain in the Pacific is something that could be done.


Well, I wouldn't want to be standing under that cloud... I think, I 'd like to stand in more wind, than in the still in this case.

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 02:59 PM
They keep talking about the wind, but from my experience that's suggesting alot. It also has to do with the altitude speed of the wind, it creating lower level "backdraft" of particulate matter. Case in point is Chernobyl where you find acute displacement in seemingly "random" areas.

Horn, seeding rain in the Pacific is something that could be done.

Well, I wouldn't want to be standing under that cloud... I think, I 'd like to stand in more wind, than in the still in this case.

what do you like more sushi or wine and oranges? make up your mind

zap
17th March 2011, 03:01 PM
They are evacuating American military families now.

I can't find any updates anywhere, what is going to happen complete meltdown?

Any Thoughts....

Horn
17th March 2011, 03:02 PM
what do you like more sushi or wine and oranges? make your mind


If we had a radio picture of the fire at this point, with 3'oclock being the plume direction.

My choice of seating would be 6, not 12, or 9.

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 03:03 PM
I think nuclear power could be safe,

I agree with you. Everybody knew that 1960-es design is outdated.
yet none was doing anything about it
Everybody knew that pools were not designed to be permanent storage
yet none was doing anything about it

that is the problem

Everybody knows that piling debt upon debt is bad,
yet we keep kicking the can down the road

why is that?

JohnQPublic
17th March 2011, 03:12 PM
How not to build a nuclear power plant (http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/inquirer/20110316_How_not_to_build_a_nuclear_power_plant.ht ml)Huge, obsolete reactors assure disasters like Japan's.

By Reese Palley
The nuclear reactors threatening to melt down in Japan use inherently unsafe technology that was originally designed to supply the U.S. military with plutonium for bombs. The plutonium in the first atomic bombs was measured in the ounces, but these breeder reactors made it available by the ton, creating more fuel than they consumed.

In the 1950s, Edward Teller developed technology that would go a long way toward eliminating all the expense, delay, and risk associated with these reactors. Teller advocated nuclear power plants that would be "walk-away safe" - that is, capable of running without supervision - and that could be "operated by children." But the concept was shelved because it would produce no excess plutonium for bombs.

Our enormous investment of dollars and engineering man-hours in breeder reactors has saddled us with a technology that is both unsafe and financially unsustainable. But there is powerful resistance to any move away from it because of the time and money it took to develop.

The plants' profitability and longevity also discourage change. The huge nuclear plants built over the past 40 years, as well as those being planned today, have an economic life of half a century or more. As a result, the industry is locked into nuclear plants that are always a hair's breadth away from critical condition.

The obsolete Japanese plants were built in the 1970s to designs dating to the late 1940s and '50s. The huge reactors that have been built and proposed in America have inherited that technology, and they are made safe only by backup systems that must work perfectly all the time. These reactors are defined as "engineered safe," which is entirely different from technology that is defined as "inherently safe."

Inherently safe nuclear technology is designed around the principle that the nuclear process is self-limiting. Such reactors never allow the temperature to rise beyond designated limits, so there is no need for outside controls. This eliminates the Achilles' heel of current reactors: their need for external coolants to keep their cores from going critical.

Nuclear emergencies such as the one unfolding in Japan are rare but entirely predictable. While we do everything conceivable to prepare for nuclear accidents, the threat always comes from what's deemed inconceivable. The earthquake and tsunami were, in fact, foreseeable, but truly preparing for such a rare scenario proved impossible.

If anything is to blame for what's happening in Japan, it's the arrogant decision to build 55 huge, dangerous reactors at sea level in a seismically active region, where they could be destroyed by tsunamis. These sites, chosen because of the plants' need for cooling water, effectively guaranteed that a major nuclear accident would occur in the long run.

And let's not forget that 23 of America's approximately 100 nuclear plants use boiling-water reactors identical to the troubled Japanese installations.

Because of the threat of global warming, we simply cannot do without nuclear power. If we go on for the balance of this century burning coal and oil at present rates, the results will be infinitely worse than the emergency in Japan.

Since we cannot exist comfortably on the planet without nuclear power, we must turn to those safe nuclear technologies that have been ignored for half a century. These technologies reduce the scale of nuclear plants to more human proportions. And they would not eat up our coastlines and precious water resources.

At a fraction of the cost of one of today's 1,000-megawatt monsters, we could build ten inherently safe, 100-megawatt reactors that need no water for cooling. We could build them on factory assembly lines and deliver them by truck or train ready for use. And we could turn out many thousands of them in less time than it would take to build the hundred huge reactors we would need to meet our voracious appetite for energy by mid-century.

Not only is this technology cheaper and inherently safe. It's also urgently needed to address the threat of global warming.

All our plans for inherently unsafe, 1,000-megawatt nuclear reactors should be immediately scrapped, and they should be replaced with a Manhattan Project-style effort to build 100-megawatt mini-reactors. These would safely and cheaply take up the slack in our energy production when we finally abandon fossil fuels - along with the terrifying nuclear mammoths we can neither afford nor control.

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 03:15 PM
How not to build a nuclear power plant (http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/inquirer/20110316_How_not_to_build_a_nuclear_power_plant.ht ml)Huge, obsolete reactors assure disasters like Japan's.

By Reese Palley
The nuclear reactors threatening to melt down in Japan use inherently unsafe technology that was originally designed to supply the U.S. military with plutonium for bombs. The plutonium in the first atomic bombs was measured in the ounces, but these breeder reactors made it available by the ton, creating more fuel than they consumed.

In the 1950s, Edward Teller developed technology that would go a long way toward eliminating all the expense, delay, and risk associated with these reactors. Teller advocated nuclear power plants that would be "walk-away safe" - that is, capable of running without supervision - and that could be "operated by children." But the concept was shelved because it would produce no excess plutonium for bombs.

Our enormous investment of dollars and engineering man-hours in breeder reactors has saddled us with a technology that is both unsafe and financially unsustainable. But there is powerful resistance to any move away from it because of the time and money it took to develop.

The plants' profitability and longevity also discourage change. The huge nuclear plants built over the past 40 years, as well as those being planned today, have an economic life of half a century or more. As a result, the industry is locked into nuclear plants that are always a hair's breadth away from critical condition.

The obsolete Japanese plants were built in the 1970s to designs dating to the late 1940s and '50s. The huge reactors that have been built and proposed in America have inherited that technology, and they are made safe only by backup systems that must work perfectly all the time. These reactors are defined as "engineered safe," which is entirely different from technology that is defined as "inherently safe."

Inherently safe nuclear technology is designed around the principle that the nuclear process is self-limiting. Such reactors never allow the temperature to rise beyond designated limits, so there is no need for outside controls. This eliminates the Achilles' heel of current reactors: their need for external coolants to keep their cores from going critical.

Nuclear emergencies such as the one unfolding in Japan are rare but entirely predictable. While we do everything conceivable to prepare for nuclear accidents, the threat always comes from what's deemed inconceivable. The earthquake and tsunami were, in fact, foreseeable, but truly preparing for such a rare scenario proved impossible.

If anything is to blame for what's happening in Japan, it's the arrogant decision to build 55 huge, dangerous reactors at sea level in a seismically active region, where they could be destroyed by tsunamis. These sites, chosen because of the plants' need for cooling water, effectively guaranteed that a major nuclear accident would occur in the long run.

And let's not forget that 23 of America's approximately 100 nuclear plants use boiling-water reactors identical to the troubled Japanese installations.

Because of the threat of global warming, we simply cannot do without nuclear power. If we go on for the balance of this century burning coal and oil at present rates, the results will be infinitely worse than the emergency in Japan.

Since we cannot exist comfortably on the planet without nuclear power, we must turn to those safe nuclear technologies that have been ignored for half a century. These technologies reduce the scale of nuclear plants to more human proportions. And they would not eat up our coastlines and precious water resources.

At a fraction of the cost of one of today's 1,000-megawatt monsters, we could build ten inherently safe, 100-megawatt reactors that need no water for cooling. We could build them on factory assembly lines and deliver them by truck or train ready for use. And we could turn out many thousands of them in less time than it would take to build the hundred huge reactors we would need to meet our voracious appetite for energy by mid-century.

Not only is this technology cheaper and inherently safe. It's also urgently needed to address the threat of global warming.

All our plans for inherently unsafe, 1,000-megawatt nuclear reactors should be immediately scrapped, and they should be replaced with a Manhattan Project-style effort to build 100-megawatt mini-reactors. These would safely and cheaply take up the slack in our energy production when we finally abandon fossil fuels - along with the terrifying nuclear mammoths we can neither afford nor control.




I hope somebody in the power will follow up on that

beefsteak
17th March 2011, 03:17 PM
I think nuclear power could be safe,

I agree with you. Everybody knew that 1960-es design is outdated.
yet none was doing anything about it
Everybody knew that pools were not designed to be permanent storage
yet none was doing anything about it

that is the problem

Everybody knows that piling debt upon debt is bad,
yet we keep kicking the can down the road

why is that?


Because solving messy problems does not make as much money for the bankers as creating more divisive problems does, such as ethnic, religious, economic and other such polarizing issues. THOSE make money for the bankers funding both sides. FIXING nuclear messes does not. That is wealth destruction, not wealth creation. And fixing debt piling on creates wealth re-distribution.

Large Sarge
17th March 2011, 03:17 PM
They are evacuating American military families now.

I can't find any updates anywhere, what is going to happen complete meltdown?

Any Thoughts....








one of things I saw said they have less than 48 hours to bring it all under control, otherwise "chernobyl explosion"

I guess only satellite images tell the real story now, heat, water levels, etc

I think some of the fuel has already melted down, and is literally "underground" now (burning through all the manmade structures)

perhaps that is why it has not exploded, with the ocean so close, the water table so low, the fuel burns down, and it essentially "falls into the ocean"

which is horrible for the ocean, but perhaps limits the explosion?

(just speculating)

but they said during 3 mile incident, that the fuel melted down in 2 hours (uncovered)

well this has been going on for days now, all these buildings have severe structural damage, and no power...

do you really think the water level is over the rods? (I say no)

my guess is that stuff is burning through bedrock as I type, and hopefully the pacific ocean will keep it from exploding

nunaem
17th March 2011, 03:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZsUHTJyX5g

Now's the time to stock up on tuna and salmon while it is only contaminated with mercury.

Horn
17th March 2011, 03:26 PM
and hopefully the pacific ocean will keep it from exploding


A constant supply of water only helps to dilute things over a wider area in my mind.

In the case if any amount of dilution would be enough?

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 03:31 PM
-- Spent-fuel storage pools at all reactors -- Cooling functions lost, water temperatures or levels unobservable at reactors No. 1 to 4.


note that cooling functions lost at all six pools.
water level and temperature monitoring is lost at No. 1,2,3 and 4

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 03:34 PM
-- Spent-fuel storage pools at all reactors -- Cooling functions lost, water temperatures or levels unobservable at reactors No. 1 to 4.


note that cooling functions lost at all six pools.
water levels and temperature monitoring is lost at No. 1,2,3 and 4

monitoring still works at pools #5 and #6
the temperature reading is at 64 C

Serpo
17th March 2011, 03:42 PM
Cable reaches Japan nuclear plant


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12779512

SLV^GLD
17th March 2011, 03:47 PM
(I am sorry is this is offensive to Bible despisers)



you may stop reading here.





note that there are a lot of worst fornicators in CA
what if we are witnessing one-two punch to take care of both sides of the Pacific?

I believe God has a plan and it marches forward. I believe even things not included in the plan are worked in. I believe passing judgment on fellow country men as somehow being worse than any other is a sin because we were specifically instructed not to do that and to leave judgment up to the One who actually has the capacity. I believe this nuclear crisis is part of the plan and the the things that set it in motion were not by necessity part of the plan. I believe that if our West coast brethren suffer then we all suffer and no more punishment is being meted out to one coast than the other. I choose not to believe one way or the other that this event represents punishment at any rate. I do believe it is a clear and present sign and we are only hurting ourselves to ignore it.

And yes, my post represents an on-topic post because the question is clearly being asked, how will we, the US... even the world, respond? What does it take for us to open our eyes?

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 03:49 PM
Cable reaches Japan nuclear plant
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12779512


That should allow to re-start the main pump
question is whether the pump have not been damaged by the earthquake, or hydrogen explosion

zap
17th March 2011, 03:53 PM
I can't understand with all the technology and all the countries in the world offering help that nobody could have had some gigantic generators and pumps flown in and hooked up? The have been screwing around for days.

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 03:57 PM
I can't understand with all the technology and all the countries in the world offering help that nobody could have had some gigantic generators and pumps flown in and hooked up? The have been screwing around for days.


:dunno

I also read somewhere that the closest functioning powerline was 1 km (only 0.6 miles) away.

:dunno

chad
17th March 2011, 03:58 PM
I can't understand with all the technology and all the countries in the world offering help that nobody could have had some gigantic generators and pumps flown in and hooked up? The have been screwing around for days.


it is kind of amazing that in the year 2011, we have helicopters scooping up seawater and dumping it to try and contain the problem. seriously? a helicopter and seawater?

you'd think they'd have 20 redundant power lines in all sorts of different designs to make sure even if god shot lightning bolts at it that it wouldn't go offline. i mean, IT'S A NUCLEAR REACTOR.

nunaem
17th March 2011, 03:59 PM
Power wont do any good. The pumps on most, probably all, of the damaged reactors are toast.

If power would have solved it they would have airlifted in several dozen generators days ago.

Serpo
17th March 2011, 04:08 PM
I can't understand with all the technology and all the countries in the world offering help that nobody could have had some gigantic generators and pumps flown in and hooked up? The have been screwing around for days.


it is kind of amazing that in the year 2011, we have helicopters scooping up seawater and dumping it to try and contain the problem. seriously? a helicopter and seawater?

you'd think they'd have 20 redundant power lines in all sorts of different designs to make sure even if god shot lightning bolts at it that it wouldn't go offline. i mean, IT'S A NUCLEAR REACTOR.


BLASE fools..................

mightymanx
17th March 2011, 04:18 PM
I think nuclear power could be safe,

there are design flaws in these reactors

and I suspect this earthquake/tsunami was manmade

when you have "govt terrorists" with high tech/exotic weapons, well no one is really safe

Tesla technology would work, to power the world, it would take a lot of "trial and error" to build something sturdy enough to handle that much "juice"

the alternative is geothermal, geothermal is a valid energy source

folks this is not the fault of nuclear energy, this was "poor placement" and "govt terrorists" IMO

Japan is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, and for govt terrorists who want to reduce the world population by 85%, well japan is like a nice juicy steak, mouth-watering.... and ready to serve.....






I think the biggst issue is the technology they used in this location. In a location like this they should use "inherently safe" designs. These type of reactors (pressurized water reactors) have very high energy densities (100 W/cubic cm), while inherently safe desihgns have a lot less (3-10 typical). This means the reactors themselevs take up a lot more space, and maybe are not as responsive, but they tend to be safer. Some have low enough energy densities that even completely esposed 9i.e., no cooling) they will not melt through a reactor shell.

I think PWRs could be ok in non-earthquakle, non-tsunami and maybe non tornado zones. But, in cases of war and terrorism, anything can be unsafe.

I am definitely rethinking my support for nuclear power, but I don't think it is wise to over react at this point.


Umm...Japan is not running PWR's they are running boiling water reactors BWR's If It was a PWR it could have been cooled down without pumps.

On a cup 1/2 full note if Japan need to be evacuated I move we give them Israel.

gunDriller
17th March 2011, 04:19 PM
They keep talking about the wind, but from my experience that's suggesting alot. It also has to do with the altitude speed of the wind, it creating lower level "backdraft" of particulate matter. Case in point is Chernobyl where you find acute displacement in seemingly "random" areas.


Horn, seeding rain in the Pacific is something that could be done.


especially in an ocean-front locate like humidity = lots of high-humidity air.

i'm surprised they haven't used cloud-seeding to try to create some massive rainshowers. a boatload of rain - like a cyclone but without the wind - would be very helpful right now.


since this has become "the thread" for understanding the Japan nuke disaster, i'll add this link to a great thread at TheOilDrum -
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7675#more

it's long and technical, but it does a great job of explaining the Fukushima nuclear technology.

" I think I can answer this if I am correct that the Japanese reactors use conventional zirconium ( Zircaloy) fuel cladding with ceramic uranium oxide fuel pellets inside. I understand that Unit 3 has a mixed oxide pellet including plutonium oxide.

In 1956, my first job as a materials scientist was at the AEC's Hanford Laboratory in Washington State, operated by General Electric. Over 8 years I conducted many laboratory scale high-pressure autoclave experiments on the properties of zirconium alloys in high temperature and pressure water and steam. These tests were classified "secret" back then to prevent our technology from being obtained by the Soviets. Sometimes I fear that even though all this science is now declassified, this early science has not made into the education of today's engineers. I retired in 1995 and have followed TOD for 3 years now, having also worked on natural gas pipeline and geothermal system corrosion, but now feel I have expertise to share on this topic.

The source is the hydrogen is a chemical reaction between the uncovered, overheated fuel assemblies and steam.

Zr + 2 H2O (steam) = ZrO2+2 H2

Zirconium is an extremely reactive metal and has even been used in flash bulbs filled with oxygen. There have been fatal explosions handling zirconium powers. So how is it possible to use zirconium safely in a nuclear reactor?

Like aluminum, zirconium and its alloys (Zircaloy-2) oxidize instantly in air. A thin film of ZrO2 is so impervious to oxygen diffusion that the reaction stops. Even in 300 C (572F) water or steam at over 1000 psi, the oxidation rate is extremely slow and corrosion properties of Zircaloy fuel cladding are outstanding and safe, AS LONG as they are not overheated and cooling water flow is maintained. In fact, it is standard practice to autoclave fuel rods in hot-pressured water or steam to precoat these rods with the optimum coating of ZrO2.

But these fuel rods must NEVER be overheated. That is why multiple redundant cooling systems are required. All these backup-cooling systems failed in Japan. Even after reactor shutdown, if the fuel rods are uncovered cladding temperatures can rapidly rise to 800C or higher, due to fission product decay heat. As in any chemical reaction, the rate accelerates rapidly with temperature, but in the case of zirconium, the protective character of a thin ZrO2 film is destroyed by this high temperature and catastrophic oxidation occurs. However this catastrophic oxidation occurs below the melting point, so I object to the media using the common term "meltdown" which is misleading.

This loss of the last battery-powered cooling, led to the fuel rods becoming uncovered in a manner similar to that in the Three Mile Island accident (although due to different reasons). When overheated in steam, the oxidation reaction above accelerates exponentially. As the zirconium oxidizes, the coating thickens, cracks, and turns white from internal fractures that increase the diffusion rate of steam to the metal. It then has the look and mechanical properties of eggshells. Hydrogen from this process is released, but is also absorbed by the underlying metal cladding, which causes embrittlement and metal fracture. Soon cracks form in the cladding, releasing the trapped fission products inside. This is not "melting', but rather catastrophic disintegration of the cladding structural integrity and containment of fission products. If the process continues, the cladding can fracture away, exposing the fuel pellets, which in the worst-case scenario can drop out and collect on the bottom of the reactor vessel. It is the worse case scenario that I believe is causing the Japanese to inject boric acid. Boron is a neutron absorber and will prevent any possibility of a pile of fuel pellets on the bottom of the vessel from going critical and restarting the chain reaction.

These reactors are now a total loss, but I am still disturbed by their inability to bring in portable diesel generators and restart the back-up cooling. I guess the chaos of the catastrophe is the cause.

I do question the use of seawater cooling. I hope the Japanese have considered the danger they have created by introducing oxygenated seawater into this stainless steel piping and pressure vessel at boiling temperatures. These stainless steels are extremely susceptible to chloride stress corrosion cracking:
http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h1015v1/css/h1015v1_134.htm

Since residual weld stresses and tensile stress in piping, valves, control tubing, etc. are always present, Standard Operating Reactor water quality standards require keeping chlorides at parts per billion levels. Seawater has about 3.5% or 35 grams per liter of salinity!!!

I have no way of knowing how many days they have before a stainless steel component suddenly cracks, but if it were me, I would be advocating an emergency program to get pure deionzied cooling water back into this stainless steel system ASAP. In laboratory tests in boiling chlorides, cracking of stainless in tensile stress can occur within days- they have at most a few months if they keep boiling sea water in this system and yet another disaster occurs. I am sure there are competent scientists in Japan's nuclear industry and government regulators. I hope they are on top of this threat!"


actually, that's just one of the comments.

short version - it's not resolving, it's escalating.

it's almost funny (gallows humor) how the writer/ nuclear engineer tries to end on a positive note.

they are trying to fix those 5 or 6 broken nuclear plants AND contain those storage facilities, metaphorically, on the edge of cliff.

despite their best efforts, the situation continues to escalate and deteriorate - and so far we've been extremely lucky and there have been no major after-shocks ... whereas after-shocks are quite normal.

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 04:25 PM
I believe passing judgment on fellow country men as somehow being worse than any other is a sin because we were specifically instructed not to do that and to leave judgment up to the One who actually has the capacity.

SLV^GLD, I kind of don't believe that we are tought to live in tolerance with one kind of sin, while we should be intolerable to another.
Otherwise we should have not judged murderes & child molestors, who we think are being "somehow worse" (?) :-X than any other fellow contryman (irony).

although "politically incorrect" "there is love and there is hell fire" is truth
while "there is LOVE and there is LOVE hell fire" is a lie.

:dunno dunno

you think all of us better die than speak out? why should my children die because of those pride parades? is that the essence of LOVE not judge and LOVE.

JohnQPublic
17th March 2011, 04:43 PM
And I thought sitting on a plane next to someone with the flu was bad!

Tokyo Passengers Set Off O'Hare Radiation Detectors (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tokyo-passengers-set-ohare-radiation-detectors)

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/17/2011 15:10 -0400


No seriously, it is all under control. And furthermore, the radiation detectors only go off on less than dangerous doses. And if that fails, GE can simply raise the sensitivity threshold on its scanners so no more vile, malicious false alarms such as this are set off in the future. "Mayor Richard Daley acknowledged today passengers on a flight from Tokyo had set off radiation detectors at O’Hare International Airport, but he offered no details and said federal officials will be handling the situation."

From Chicago Breaking News:

“Of course the protection of the person coming off the plane is very important in regards to any radiation, especially within their families and anything else,” Daley said at a downtown news conference to discuss his trip to China this week.

City Aviation Commissioner Rosemarie Andolino would only say, “We are aware that occurred yesterday. We are working with Customs and Border Protection on this issue." She referred reporters to the Department of Homeland Security.

And the follow up from Chicago Positive Spin News:

Federal officials found traces of radiation on a United Airlines jet that arrived at Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport from Tokyo Wednesday but determined that the plane’s cargo and passengers were safe.

Airline and government officials are reluctant to address their efforts to detect radiation contamination on U.S. aircraft at a time when some members of the public are jittery about possible fallout from Japan’s stricken nuclear plants.

It is unclear if those who set off the alarms will be arrested for smuggling illegal radiation from Japan, where gamma waves are being scared into hiding if one is brave enough to believe the domestic government.

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 04:47 PM
I am sure that you will not pass judgment on me in regards with my post.

:)

Otherwise it will be inconsistent with your believes. ;D

lol

you know that it is not possible. despite your "not passing judgment" believes, you did judge me, admit it
it is just a technique to silence the opponent

JohnQPublic
17th March 2011, 04:49 PM
I think nuclear power could be safe,

there are design flaws in these reactors

and I suspect this earthquake/tsunami was manmade

when you have "govt terrorists" with high tech/exotic weapons, well no one is really safe

Tesla technology would work, to power the world, it would take a lot of "trial and error" to build something sturdy enough to handle that much "juice"

the alternative is geothermal, geothermal is a valid energy source

folks this is not the fault of nuclear energy, this was "poor placement" and "govt terrorists" IMO

Japan is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, and for govt terrorists who want to reduce the world population by 85%, well japan is like a nice juicy steak, mouth-watering.... and ready to serve.....






I think the biggst issue is the technology they used in this location. In a location like this they should use "inherently safe" designs. These type of reactors (pressurized water reactors) have very high energy densities (100 W/cubic cm), while inherently safe desihgns have a lot less (3-10 typical). This means the reactors themselevs take up a lot more space, and maybe are not as responsive, but they tend to be safer. Some have low enough energy densities that even completely esposed 9i.e., no cooling) they will not melt through a reactor shell.

I think PWRs could be ok in non-earthquakle, non-tsunami and maybe non tornado zones. But, in cases of war and terrorism, anything can be unsafe.

I am definitely rethinking my support for nuclear power, but I don't think it is wise to over react at this point.


Umm...Japan is not running PWR's they are running boiling water reactors BWR's If It was a PWR it could have been cooled down without pumps.

On a cup 1/2 full note if Japan need to be evacuated I move we give them Israel.


Oops, you are right. These are about 40W/cubic cm (still 5-10x the typical inherently safe densities).

Buster
17th March 2011, 05:04 PM
I think nuclear power could be safe,

there are design flaws in these reactors

and I suspect this earthquake/tsunami was manmade

when you have "govt terrorists" with high tech/exotic weapons, well no one is really safe

Tesla technology would work, to power the world, it would take a lot of "trial and error" to build something sturdy enough to handle that much "juice"

the alternative is geothermal, geothermal is a valid energy source

folks this is not the fault of nuclear energy, this was "poor placement" and "govt terrorists" IMO

Japan is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, and for govt terrorists who want to reduce the world population by 85%, well japan is like a nice juicy steak, mouth-watering.... and ready to serve.....






OK, I've gotta ask you, which government terrorist entity do you think is responsible. I speculated previously that the Chinese and Russians would not sit back and watch NATO take over North Africa on their way to complete domination of the middle east.

Do you think this is a Sino-Russia response to the Libya, Tunisia, Egypt initiative undertaken by the US-UK-Israel?

Or is the work of the US?

SLV^GLD
17th March 2011, 05:04 PM
I am sure that you will not pass judgment on me in regards with my post.

:)

Otherwise it will be inconsistent with your believes. ;D

lol

you know that it is not possible. despite your "not passing judgment" believes, you did judge me, admit it
it is just a technique to silence the opponent


I do not judge your post and I do not consider you "an opponent". I did not engage you in an adversarial manner. I only stated my own beliefs. To answer your question, although it beleaguers this thread; the events unfolding in Japan are beyond the capabilities of being brought about purely by human motivation. Therefore, whatever my higher power has in store for me in regards to these events is outside my capacity to comprehend it and I would be remiss to simply categorize it as judgment especially if I were to insert some group of people I do not agree with as the cause for judgment.

The question, in my heart, is not WHY this is taking place but HOW am I going to respond? HOW are we going to respond? It is the only question we have the capacity to answer. And that is specifically why I think this direction of discussion is relevant to the topic of this thread.

Cobalt
17th March 2011, 05:07 PM
Another map, someone put some time into this one, to bad the info for right around the power plants still isn't available

http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=4870

Large Sarge
17th March 2011, 05:12 PM
I think nuclear power could be safe,

there are design flaws in these reactors

and I suspect this earthquake/tsunami was manmade

when you have "govt terrorists" with high tech/exotic weapons, well no one is really safe

Tesla technology would work, to power the world, it would take a lot of "trial and error" to build something sturdy enough to handle that much "juice"

the alternative is geothermal, geothermal is a valid energy source

folks this is not the fault of nuclear energy, this was "poor placement" and "govt terrorists" IMO

Japan is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, and for govt terrorists who want to reduce the world population by 85%, well japan is like a nice juicy steak, mouth-watering.... and ready to serve.....






OK, I've gotta ask you, which government terrorist entity do you think is responsible. I speculated previously that the Chinese and Russians would not sit back and watch NATO take over North Africa on their way to complete domination of the middle east.

Do you think this is a Sino-Russia response to the Libya, Tunisia, Egypt initiative undertaken by the US-UK-Israel?

Or is the work of the US?




the countries are pretty much an illusion (anymore)

The Rothschilds (and their ilk) own the planet

Malaysia, and argentina are slightly out of their reach at the moment

the rest of the planet is their's

Their homebase is Israel (Famous "rothschild Ave in downtown tel aviv)

they own all the money, all the intelligence agencies, all the govts, all the secret socieities, all the big name preachers (from all religions, including Islam), etc

they own the planet.....

now they want to liquidate their holdings, make some room so to speak, countries/borders are all an illusion....

Persoanlly I think they likely used an underwater nuke for this event, like they did with the indian ocean tsunami (the one Joe Vialls got killed for reporting on)

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 05:37 PM
I am sure that you will not pass judgment on me in regards with my post.

:)

Otherwise it will be inconsistent with your believes. ;D

lol

you know that it is not possible. despite your "not passing judgment" believes, you did judge me, admit it
it is just a technique to silence the opponent


I do not judge your post and I do not consider you "an opponent". I did not engage you in an adversarial manner. I only stated my own beliefs. To answer your question, although it beleaguers this thread; the events unfolding in Japan are beyond the capabilities of being brought about purely by human motivation. Therefore, whatever my higher power has in store for me in regards to these events is outside my capacity to comprehend it and I would be remiss to simply categorize it as judgment especially if I were to insert some group of people I do not agree with as the cause for judgment.

The question, in my heart, is not WHY this is taking place but HOW am I going to respond? HOW are we going to respond? It is the only question we have the capacity to answer. And that is specifically why I think this direction of discussion is relevant to the topic of this thread.


|--0--|

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 05:50 PM
Another map, someone put some time into this one, to bad the info for right around the power plants still isn't available

http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=4870



Cobalt, thank you.

nice map.

If the numbers are true, so far the contamination is not so horrible, except perhaps Miyagi and Fukushima for which the values are classified

PatColo
17th March 2011, 06:05 PM
Japan Radiation Coming To The US?

FREE LISTEN MP3 (http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Hull_031611.mp3)
Janet Starr Hull

several other free mp3s @rense.com re the nuke sitchation.

mick silver
17th March 2011, 06:15 PM
I agree with you. Everybody knew that 1960-es design is outdated.
yet none was doing anything about it
Everybody knew that pools were not designed to be permanent storage
yet none was doing anything about it

that is the problem

Everybody knows that piling debt upon debt is bad,
yet we keep kicking the can down the road

why is that?

it cost alot of money that why there not building new plants . plus why would the rich who own the plant care about anybody when they can jump on there planes an leave

mick silver
17th March 2011, 06:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDailyBell

zap
17th March 2011, 06:24 PM
Has anyone heard from Osaka, he said he would update when he could, hope he is safe. He said he was in Osaka about 300 miles away, maybe he got the hell out of there.



Name: Osaka
Posts: 134 (0.386 per day)
Position: Silver
Karma: +41/-60
Date Registered: April 04, 2010, 04:25:53 PM
Last Active: March 12, 2011, 06:05:41 PM

Glass
17th March 2011, 06:41 PM
Has anyone heard from Osaka, he said he would update when he could, hope he is safe. He said he was in Osaka about 300 miles away, maybe he got the hell out of there.



Name: Osaka
Posts: 134 (0.386 per day)
Position: Silver
Karma: +41/-60
Date Registered: April 04, 2010, 04:25:53 PM
Last Active: March 12, 2011, 06:05:41 PM




Good news is, Osaka still appears to be there.

Web cam of the harbour - still cam not streaming
http://www.bioweather.net/livecam/index2.php?kyoten=13

A downtown skyline:
http://weather.livedoor.com/livecamera/6/23.html

Hope they are ok.

Horn
17th March 2011, 06:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDailyBell


The Ghost of the "International Protection Organization" is the flipside that could soon lead to it becoming a reality.

Once everyone realizes it doesn't exist.

Buster
17th March 2011, 07:00 PM
I think nuclear power could be safe,

there are design flaws in these reactors

and I suspect this earthquake/tsunami was manmade

when you have "govt terrorists" with high tech/exotic weapons, well no one is really safe

Tesla technology would work, to power the world, it would take a lot of "trial and error" to build something sturdy enough to handle that much "juice"

the alternative is geothermal, geothermal is a valid energy source

folks this is not the fault of nuclear energy, this was "poor placement" and "govt terrorists" IMO

Japan is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, and for govt terrorists who want to reduce the world population by 85%, well japan is like a nice juicy steak, mouth-watering.... and ready to serve.....






OK, I've gotta ask you, which government terrorist entity do you think is responsible. I speculated previously that the Chinese and Russians would not sit back and watch NATO take over North Africa on their way to complete domination of the middle east.

Do you think this is a Sino-Russia response to the Libya, Tunisia, Egypt initiative undertaken by the US-UK-Israel?

Or is the work of the US?




the countries are pretty much an illusion (anymore)

The Rothschilds (and their ilk) own the planet

Malaysia, and argentina are slightly out of their reach at the moment

the rest of the planet is their's

Their homebase is Israel (Famous "rothschild Ave in downtown tel aviv)

they own all the money, all the intelligence agencies, all the govts, all the secret socieities, all the big name preachers (from all religions, including Islam), etc

they own the planet.....

now they want to liquidate their holdings, make some room so to speak, countries/borders are all an illusion....

Persoanlly I think they likely used an underwater nuke for this event, like they did with the indian ocean tsunami (the one Joe Vialls got killed for reporting on)




Interesting. So is it your opinion that there are no rivalries between the elites,the crime families, the Oligarchs? You don't detect any nationalistic tendencies at all?

I don't dismiss the possibility that the earthquake was triggered by a detonation. I just see Russians and Chinese motivation arising from the power grab in North Africa.

Horn
17th March 2011, 07:14 PM
Didn't "The International Community" have some news footage of one of the reactor buildings (with it spent fuel pools) already blowing to bits?

Would the pool be exploded and scattered at this point?

woodman
17th March 2011, 07:23 PM
Would the pool be exploded and scattered at this point?




I would think so. The idiocy is astounding. It almost seems that it has all been done on purpose. This kind of stupidity is so extraordinary that it simply looks purposefull. I don't think it is but I can see one coming to such a conclusion.

woodman
17th March 2011, 07:36 PM
Taming the nuclear dragon is an effort that can only be undertaken with the greatest of hubris. If one thinks such can be done then it would behoove them to at have their ducks in a row. I sincerely hope and pray that this catastrophe doesn't kill millions and I hope those in charge (or were supposed to be) are put to death by radiological means.

I feel sad for the plight of the Japanese people.

Ironic, isn't it? We nuked them in '46? They will nuke us in 2011. 65 years later. True kamikazee style.

Has anyone come up with any sensible plan to remediate the situation? I don't see anything in the works. I think everyone is just waiting to see what happens. Nobody is running this casino.

Antonio
17th March 2011, 07:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgTSlBHKb78&feature=youtube_gdata_player
This French guy is showing you Jap lies on TV.

Serpo
17th March 2011, 07:43 PM
Visible in green within the shattered walls of Fukushima nuclear power plant, the storage pool is dried up, exposing nuclear fuel rods to the air. Photo: AP
By Gordon Rayner, Chief Reporter 10:20PM GMT 17 Mar 2011

Close-up pictures of the devastated No 4 reactor building show the gaping hole through which radiation is escaping into the atmosphere as the rods break down.

Last night, the UN's nuclear safety body said it was "too early to say" whether desperate attempts to cool them by spraying water into the building had been a success.

The Foreign Office issued an urgent statement advising any Britons within 50 miles of the plant to leave the area immediately, and arranged charter flights to get British citizens out of the country.

Radiation levels 20 miles from the plant – well outside Japan's official 12-mile evacuation zone – came close to double the safety limit normally allowed for nuclear workers.

Despite assurances that other countries were not at risk of harmful levels of radiation, growing alarm led to panic-buying of radiation-blocking drugs in places thousands of miles from Japan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8389415/Japan-nuclear-plant-exposed-to-the-elements-nuclear-fuel-in-meltdown.html

Inside the building, a green-painted crane, which is normally used to move the fuel rods, caught the daylight flooding into the hall.

Beneath the crane, just out of shot, is the pool holding the fuel rods, which should contain water 45ft deep but which has now boiled dry.

Other pictures show the collapsed metal framework of another reactor unit's roof twisted beyond recognition. Workers who volunteered to risk their lives to save the plant from meltdown spent another day frantically trying to get water into the storage pool by every means possible.

Attempts to dump thousands of gallons of sea water from helicopters appeared to meet with little success, and efforts to use a water cannon had to be abandoned at one stage because radiation levels outside the plant became unacceptably high.

Scientists in Sweden said that radioactive particles from the plant, blown across the Pacific by prevailing winds, would reach the west coast of America today, leading to a slight increase in background radiation.

sunnyandseventy
17th March 2011, 08:17 PM
That video is intense.

He's telling it like it is. The truth.

Somebody posted earlier NBC Nightly News said no passengers were contaminated; it was just medical supplies.

Wait until they shut the internet down. The good internet, like GSUS, and that video.

Cebu_4_2
17th March 2011, 08:27 PM
Just read AZJ that japan has run electric lines so they can start running the cooling water pumps, apparently doing the same for the other damaged plants. Should be online Friday which is nowish.

Glass
17th March 2011, 08:32 PM
I'm hearing this morning on the wires that the Japanese earthquake could delay the iPad 2.

I'm struggling to find the words....this truly is becoming a tragedy.

On a lighter note. I penciled in Tuesday 15th March 2:30 Tokyo as the time when the meltdown became a certainty. That was when Reactor #2 exploded and they admitted all the Mox fuel rods were stored in #4. I can understand the french guy getting angry but he has to put that in to action. He needs to be heading south and if that means walking, then walking it is. No more waiting. Action is required. You are on your own. Good luck!

Horn
17th March 2011, 08:53 PM
Just read AZJ that japan has run electric lines so they can start running the cooling water pumps, apparently doing the same for the other damaged plants. Should be online Friday which is nowish.


I see, so the can they can start blowing up the pools in the remaining reactors?

Who's gonna stand on the roof & manually operate the relief valve?

Seriously, the should start throwing some inert matter on top of the entire place.

Wind is changing.

http://icons-ecast.wxug.com/data/640x480/2xi_jp_ws_anim.gif

Antonio
17th March 2011, 09:09 PM
A short lesson from an amateur knifemaker: what happens when you quench a thin blade in water? It often cracks, so hot oil is used so the temperature diff is not as great between the red-hot blade and the quenching media. What happens when they pour seawater on hot rods? They are gonna burst.

G2Rad
17th March 2011, 09:23 PM
Dear God, if that be you will, please bless and guide all those poor people who are now in Japan, fighting the disaster, their bodies being destroyed by radiation in those half-demolished buildings. Let families see their loved ones safely back home and let the children see their moms and dads safely back home. Despite that, let your will be done, not mine. Amen.

mightymanx
17th March 2011, 09:27 PM
A short lesson from an amateur knifemaker: what happens when you quench a thin blade in water? It often cracks, so hot oil is used so the temperature diff is not as great between the red-hot blade and the quenching media. What happens when they pour seawater on hot rods? They are gonna burst.


I am pretty sure this is why the Russians are recomending using tin to dissapate the heat near the fuel while water is used to cool the container the tin will act as a buffer and not flash off and create hydrogen.

Antonio
17th March 2011, 09:31 PM
A short lesson from an amateur knifemaker: what happens when you quench a thin blade in water? It often cracks, so hot oil is used so the temperature diff is not as great between the red-hot blade and the quenching media. What happens when they pour seawater on hot rods? They are gonna burst.


I am pretty sure this is why the Russians are recomending using tin to dissapate the heat near the fuel while water is used to cool the container the tin will act as a buffer and not flash off and create hydrogen.


Din`t know about this, why not use bags of lead shot like in Chernobyl?

BrewTech
17th March 2011, 09:33 PM
Side note...

The local GNC was supposed to get some KI in today - many people have ordered some... didn't get it in the shipment.

Lady called the distributor, and apparently their response was...

"What order?"

Methinks the national supply may have been commandeered by the COG directive.

Fucking assholes.

dys
17th March 2011, 09:42 PM
I would think so. The idiocy is astounding. It almost seems that it has all been done on purpose. This kind of stupidity is so extraordinary that it simply looks purposefull. I don't think it is but I can see one coming to such a conclusion.


In my mind there is no 'almost'. The government response kind of reminds me of Katrina which was another false flag. They are all false flags now, nothing happens by accident. It's a damn shame, too...I hate to see all these innocent people and their families get hurt like this.

dys

mightymanx
17th March 2011, 09:45 PM
A short lesson from an amateur knifemaker: what happens when you quench a thin blade in water? It often cracks, so hot oil is used so the temperature diff is not as great between the red-hot blade and the quenching media. What happens when they pour seawater on hot rods? They are gonna burst.


I am pretty sure this is why the Russians are recomending using tin to dissapate the heat near the fuel while water is used to cool the container the tin will act as a buffer and not flash off and create hydrogen.


Din`t know about this, why not use bags of lead shot like in Chernobyl?

http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/100116/


A special working group set up in Ukraine has passed Japan its proposals on stabilizing the situation at the Fukushima-1 nuclear power plant in Japan.

The group comprises specialists who were involved in clearing the aftermath of the nuclear breakdown at the Chornobyl NPP in Ukraine.

"The proposals were passed by first deputy head of the State Agency for the Zone of Alienation Dmytro Bobro and deputy head of the National Security and Defense Service Serhiy Parashin through the Japanese embassy in Ukraine," the Ukrainian Emergencies Service said in a statement circulated on Thursday.

According to Ukrainian specialists, to bring the heat processes in Fukushima-1 reactors under control, it is necessary "first, to ensure a normal cooling mode in the spent fuel pools by pumping water, sea water as a last resort, into them; second, the type of reactor fuel coolant needs to be changed - water, which might trigger a steam-zirconium reaction fraught with the release of hydrogen and potential blasts, should be replaced with low-melting and chemically neutral metal, for instance tin which will pull heat away from the fuel rods (molten or damaged) towards the inner walls of the reactor, while continuing to use sea water to cool down its outer walls".

The tin 'lake' inside the reactor will "reduce the discharge of heavy fission products and bring ionizing radiation levels down. Chipped tin could be pumped in through steam communications under pressure using cylinders with helium or argon".

A team of Ukrainian nuclear specialists is ready fly out to Japan to help put these proposals into practice, the statement says.

Read more: http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/100116/#ixzz1GvIqfmOB

mightymanx
17th March 2011, 09:48 PM
opps double tap

Horn
17th March 2011, 10:02 PM
http://www.leakdetectionaustintexas.com/images/leaks.jpg

Glass
17th March 2011, 10:17 PM
so now they have the water canons in place and they are spraying water in to the #3 reactor. I'm not sure what is going on, but it looks like they are either spraying from a tank or the people doing the spraying are having to leave the canons for someone else to pick up the batten. The spraying stops after a few minutes then continues again.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/

edit: confirmed, they have 7 trucks that are taking turns. So they must be spraying from the truck tanks. The problem is to get lots of gear in close to the reactor with all the rubble.

50 tons of water in total. The pools hold 1200 tons of water. Could take a while.

Cebu_4_2
17th March 2011, 10:23 PM
Iodine supplement supplies wiped out by nuclear fallout fear - here are the foods that contain high levels of natural iodine

http://www.naturalnews.com/031717_iodine_sea_vegetables.html

Wednesday, March 16, 2011
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com (See all articles...)
Email this article to a friend Printable Version FREE Email Newsletter
Your email privacy is 100% protected.


(NaturalNews) It's happening everywhere now: Potassium Iodide supplements are getting wiped out as people concerned about the possibility of radiation fallout are purchasing them for their own protection. Yesterday evening, we posted a story about an alternative source of iodine -- Nascent Iodine -- and now it has been completely sold out everywhere in North America, too. (Our store was sold out within minutes and now the product is back-ordered.) The U.S. Surgeon General has even publicly supported the idea of buying potassium iodide as a "precaution" in case the radioactive fallout reaches the United States.

In the midst of all this, some sellers are jacking up their prices to exploit the shortage for their own financial gain. One seller hiked his price from $49 / bottle to $499 / bottle on eBay. Another guy was asking $1500!

The NaturalNews Store has been the lowest price on the 'net for Nascent Iodine, and we kept our prices on sale through this entire iodine shortage because we always strive to deliver exceptional values to our customers (and we operate with ethics, too, meaning we don't price gouge just because people are desperate -- shame on all the pricks and shysters who are trying to rip people off in this moment of crisis! They remind me of the price gouging practices of the pharmaceutical industry...).

Remarkably, our Nascent Iodine still sells for just $23 even though the exact same product costs at least 50% more elsewhere (http://store.naturalnews.com/index....). (The manufacturer will only allow us to run this low price for another week or so, after which we will be forced to raise it back to "regular" pricing, which is just under $36 a bottle. We often negotiate incredible discount deals for NaturalNews readers, but the always have a time limit window of opportunity...)

Not surprisingly, at this price we sold out very, very quickly. And now people are asking what else they can consume to increase their intake of natural iodine.

Fortunately, there are several key foods that are very high in iodine -- and no, table salt isn't one of them. To boost your levels of iodine from table salt, you'd practically have to poison yourself with an excess of salt. The best forms of natural iodine, it turns out, are sea vegetables.

And YES, sea vegetables can provide sufficient levels of iodine to help prevent radiation poisoning of your glandular system. One quarter of a teaspoon of organic kelp granules (see below), for example, provides 3mg of iodine (milligrams, not micrograms).

Remember, 1 mg = 1,000 mcg. And the recommended daily intake of iodine is just 150 mcg (micrograms). Dr. David Brownstein recommends a daily intake that is significantly higher -- as much as 6 - 12mg per day, which you can reasonably achieve from eating a planned quantity of sea vegetables. Of course, an iodine supplement such as Nascent Iodine (http://www.naturalnews.com/031708_i...) is going to provide a far larger serving of iodine, which it's why it's worth ordering some and having them on hand for the future.

Sea vegetables with natural iodine: Kelp, Nori, Kombu and Sea Spaghetti

One of the very best natural sources of iodine is Kelp. The NaturalNews Store consistently carries an inventory of Organic Kelp Granules that provide 3mg (yes, milligrams, not micrograms) of iodine in just a 1/4 teaspoon serving.

You can find that product at this link:
http://store.naturalnews.com/index....

We are probably already sold out by the time you read this, but we have 1,000 more bottles arriving on Monday, so if you order now, you can most likely receive them within 10 - 14 working days.

You can also find this same product sold at health food stores and online nutritional retailers. It will be the next iodine source that's sold out as soon as enough people realize that kelp is an abundant source of natural iodine.

This product is normally used as a kind of natural salt shaker, to add a salty taste to soups, salads or just about any meal, by the way. It's a regular superfood source that's also very high in other trace minerals.

All seaweeds contain iodine in a natural state. One of the highest is kombu, which contains up to 2500 mcg (micrograms) per gram of kombu. You can find kombu seaweed at many local health food stores, too. Just soak it in water to reconstitute it, then you can cook it into foods, eat it on a salad, or whatever you want. Cooking does not destroy iodine, so don't be afraid to heat it if you want to. Iodine is a trace mineral, and no minerals are destroyed through high-heat cooking (just vitamins, proteins and other phytonutrients).

Nori sheets (the seaweed sheets used to make sushi) are also a source of iodine, although they only contain about 16mcg per gram. So they're not nearly as iodine rich as kombu. But nori is easy to find and delicious to eat. Make some nori wraps!

Nori is often very easy to find at health food stores, and we also sell it at a special sale price at the NaturalNews Store: http://store.naturalnews.com/index....

Can you overdose on iodine from nori sheets? It's almost impossible to do so. You'd have to eat hundreds of nori sheets at one setting to get that much iodine. And given that most people are chronically deficient in iodine, a person can safely consume up to 50 mg of iodine per day to restore sufficient levels in the body, according to Dr. David Brownstein (yes, 50 milligrams, not micrograms). The U.S. government's "official" numbers on iodine are, just like all the other nutrients, kept artificially low (like with vitamin D) in order to encourage people to actually stay deficient in essential nutrients (http://www.naturalnews.com/030598_v...).

Sea Spaghetti
As luck would have it, we just launched a new seaweed-based superfood product at the NaturalNews Store called Sea Spaghetti. It's made entirely from a natural brown seaweed called himanthalia elongata. It's made in France, and we just got it into our store yesterday.

It's a natural source for many trace minerals, including iodine. Although it's not a huge amount, each 5-gram portion (a very small amount) of sea spaghetti delivers 500 micrograms of iodine (333% of daily value). This is not enough to correct a severe iodine deficiency, but every little bit helps, and even seemingly small portions of this food can start to add up to several milligrams of iodine. It can truly help supply a steady source of iodine to meet your body's nutritional needs.

This is also a fantastic product for completely removing grains and pastas from your diet. You can just make your favorite spaghetti sauces using these sea noodles instead! It contains just 12 calories per serving! (Yes, 12.)

Pick some up at:
http://store.naturalnews.com/index....

The nutrition facts on this product are:

Serving size 5 g
Servings per bag 10
Calories per serving 12
Protein 1.5% DV
Fat 0.4% DV
Fiber 6% DV
Sodium 7% DV
Carbs 0.5% DV
Vitamin C 7% DV
Potassium 13% DV
Magnesium 50% DV
Calcium 3% DV
Iodine 333% DV

DV = Daily Value

Don't get ripped off on radiation pills
There's panic in the market right now. People are desperate to find a source of iodine. But that panic is unjustified. Most people simply don't know you can get plenty of iodine from eating sea vegetables.

There are also brown seaweed extracts available on the market today that have their own natural iodine. For years, I've been recommending Modifilan (http://www.modifilan.com), which is an amazing brown seaweed that's naturally rich in iodine.

You can also just go out and buy seaweed vegetables at your local health food store right now. Or get yourself a "seaweed salad." Or go visit a local Japanese restaurant and order something with seaweed in it. Lots of seaweed. It's all good for you for lots of reasons beyond the iodine.

Do not get ripped off paying $600 for radiation pills! It disgusts me that some people are profiteering off this crisis by jacking up their prices to insane levels. I will have no part of that. That's why we kept our prices low and even on sale for the Nascent Iodine sold through our store: http://store.naturalnews.com/index....

Oh, and by the way, we are donating $5,000 to the relief efforts in Japan in the next 24-48 hours. I hope to have time to post a story about that on NaturalNews. These are funds we acquired through the registrations for our "Financial Preparedness" event that runs this Sunday (which is also sold out).

We are trying to do our best here to help people get prepared for what's coming. We actually had our Nascent Iodine on sale before Japan's nuclear disaster, but virtually no one bought any at that time. There's a lesson here in all this: Get prepared in advance and don't allow yourself to be caught without being ready for what's coming: Financial collapse, natural disasters, social upheavals and a whole lot more.

That's why I publicly announced BEFORE all this happened that we would be focusing more on preparedness here on NaturalNews. Ten days before Japan's nuclear disaster, we announced our first preparedness event: http://www.naturalnews.com/031548_f...

The second preparedness event is going to happen in April and will be announced shortly. Watch NaturalNews for updates, and subscribe to our free email newsletter to be kept in the loop on all these important developments: http://www.naturalnews.com/ReaderRe...

The world is changing rapidly. There is information you need to know that your government officials are not admitting. They don't want to cause a panic, so they tell people everything is okay. The problem with that approach is that is lulls people into a false sense of security and discourages intelligent preparedness. I'd rather we be fully informed and aware of the realistic threats out there so that we can be fully prepared to handle the expected events that life seems to throw at us.

Preparedness is wise. And right now, a whole lot of people around the world are suddenly wising up to the reality of what the alternative media has been talking about for years.

Antonio
17th March 2011, 11:18 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367208/Japan-tsunami-earthquake-Mayor-claims-people-abandoned.html

'We have been betrayed': Mayor of town near stricken Japanese nuclear plant claims his people have been 'abandoned'

Olmstein
17th March 2011, 11:24 PM
More good news from The LA Times. (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-quake-wrapup-20110318,0,2262753.story)

U.S. nuclear officials suspect Japanese plant has a dire breach

U.S. government nuclear experts believe a spent fuel pool at Japan's crippled Fukushima reactor complex has a breach in the wall or floor, a situation that creates a major obstacle to refilling the pool with cooling water and keeping dangerous levels of radiation from escaping.

That assessment by U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission officials is based on the sequence of events since the earthquake and information provided by key American contractors who were in the plant at the time, said government officials familiar with the evaluation. It was compelling evidence, they said, that the wall of the No. 4 reactor pool has a significant hole or crack.

Unlike the reactor itself, the spent fuel pool does not have its own containment vessel, and any radioactive particles and gases can more easily spew into the environment if the uranium fuel begins to burn. In addition, the pool, which contains 130 tons of uranium fuel, is housed in a building that Japanese authorities say appears to have been damaged by fire or explosions.

A breach in the pool would leave engineers with a problem that has no precedent or ready-made solution, said Edwin Lyman, a physicist with the Union of Concerned Scientists.

"My intuition is that this is a terrible situation and it is only going to get worse," he said. "There may not be any way to deal with it."

mick silver
17th March 2011, 11:28 PM
There may not be any way to deal with it."

vacuum
17th March 2011, 11:29 PM
Does anyone, realistically, have a better idea than this:



Bury nukes about 1/2 to 1/4 mile from the site, surrounding it. The nukes should be about 100 m underground. Detonate the nukes. This will cause massive amounts of dirt to go into the air, covering the site.

After the site is covered, a nuke should be buried directly beneath the power plant, to a depth deep enough that it will not rupture the ground when detonated. This nuke will crystallize the ground beneath the site, sealing out water and creating a type of glass.

I'm being completely serious.

(obviously they'd wait for a day when the wind would blow all the dust from the explosion out to sea)

Neuro
18th March 2011, 03:00 AM
Maybe a core meltdown isn't that bad, melting through rock and sand should crystalize the minerals to glass, and keep it out of touch with water, no? Just need to keep a lid on it!

oldmansmith
18th March 2011, 05:17 AM
Who are they kidding?

TOKYO – Japan's nuclear safety agency raised the severity rating of the country's nuclear crisis Friday from Level 4 to Level 5 on a seven-level international scale, putting it on par with the Three Mile Island accident in Pennsylvania in 1979.

Spectrism
18th March 2011, 05:25 AM
Who are they kidding?

TOKYO – Japan's nuclear safety agency raised the severity rating of the country's nuclear crisis Friday from Level 4 to Level 5 on a seven-level international scale, putting it on par with the Three Mile Island accident in Pennsylvania in 1979.


I thought it was already at 6. This is far beyond 3-mile island. I don't believe there is any way they can recover these plants. The radiation is too high (and will remain so) for anyone to get close.

All I can think for them to do is start dozing a mountain of earth on top and hope for the best.

Large Sarge
18th March 2011, 05:38 AM
Does anyone, realistically, have a better idea than this:



Bury nukes about 1/2 to 1/4 mile from the site, surrounding it. The nukes should be about 100 m underground. Detonate the nukes. This will cause massive amounts of dirt to go into the air, covering the site.

After the site is covered, a nuke should be buried directly beneath the power plant, to a depth deep enough that it will not rupture the ground when detonated. This nuke will crystallize the ground beneath the site, sealing out water and creating a type of glass.

I'm being completely serious.

(obviously they'd wait for a day when the wind would blow all the dust from the explosion out to sea)



i am unsure this would work, with the ocean so close by.....

they may have ot create an artificial barrier with the pacific (build an atoll or something), wall off the contaminated seawater as much as possible.

that might be the best case scenario

Large Sarge
18th March 2011, 05:50 AM
I think nuclear power could be safe,

there are design flaws in these reactors

and I suspect this earthquake/tsunami was manmade

when you have "govt terrorists" with high tech/exotic weapons, well no one is really safe

Tesla technology would work, to power the world, it would take a lot of "trial and error" to build something sturdy enough to handle that much "juice"

the alternative is geothermal, geothermal is a valid energy source

folks this is not the fault of nuclear energy, this was "poor placement" and "govt terrorists" IMO

Japan is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, and for govt terrorists who want to reduce the world population by 85%, well japan is like a nice juicy steak, mouth-watering.... and ready to serve.....






OK, I've gotta ask you, which government terrorist entity do you think is responsible. I speculated previously that the Chinese and Russians would not sit back and watch NATO take over North Africa on their way to complete domination of the middle east.

Do you think this is a Sino-Russia response to the Libya, Tunisia, Egypt initiative undertaken by the US-UK-Israel?

Or is the work of the US?




the countries are pretty much an illusion (anymore)

The Rothschilds (and their ilk) own the planet

Malaysia, and argentina are slightly out of their reach at the moment

the rest of the planet is their's

Their homebase is Israel (Famous "rothschild Ave in downtown tel aviv)

they own all the money, all the intelligence agencies, all the govts, all the secret socieities, all the big name preachers (from all religions, including Islam), etc

they own the planet.....

now they want to liquidate their holdings, make some room so to speak, countries/borders are all an illusion....

Persoanlly I think they likely used an underwater nuke for this event, like they did with the indian ocean tsunami (the one Joe Vialls got killed for reporting on)




Interesting. So is it your opinion that there are no rivalries between the elites,the crime families, the Oligarchs? You don't detect any nationalistic tendencies at all?

I don't dismiss the possibility that the earthquake was triggered by a detonation. I just see Russians and Chinese motivation arising from the power grab in North Africa.








no every country has a central bank, IMF loans, world bank, etc

the rothschilds have controlled both sides of all conflicts for 100's of years.....

Neuro
18th March 2011, 06:03 AM
no every country has a central bank, IMF loans, world bank, etc

the rothschilds have controlled both sides of all conflicts for 100's of years.....

I think they were small players prior to the battle of Waterloo in 1815, after that, yes!

Horn
18th March 2011, 06:13 AM
What happened to that Super-Mega carrier that dropped fire sauce on Israel's forest fire?

Why are they still using helicopters here?

Like the selected pinpoint & small drops are to enable some sort of recovery in the facility, or for future experimental purposes.

Large Sarge
18th March 2011, 06:30 AM
mccanney show is almost entirely on japan (fallout, preparations, etc)

http://www.jmccanneyscience.com/sh03-17-11-7meg-MP3.ram

Large Sarge
18th March 2011, 06:34 AM
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asia/east-pacific/Japan-Raises-Severity-Rating-of-Nuclear-Disaster-118228669.html

Japan's PM Says Nuclear Situation 'Very Grave'
VOA News March 18, 2011

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Japan's Prime Minister Naoto Kan says the nuclear crisis at the crippled Fukushima plant is "very grave."

Kan said on Friday the police, fire department and military were "putting their lives on the line" to cool the highly radioactive fuel rods at the complex.

Officials on Friday raised the severity rating of its nuclear disaster from 4 to 5 on a 7-point international nuclear event scale.

Firefighters were dousing water on damaged reactor buildings with powerful hoses. But they have to limit their time inside the complex due to the high radiation levels.

Japanese engineers also are extending an emergency power cable to the nuclear reactor complex. A steady supply of power could enable workers at the Fukushima plant to get water pumps working again.

Kan tried to reassure his nation, saying Friday that he expected that in the "not so distant future" the overall situation will be controlled.

The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, Yukiya Amano, says Japan is racing against time to cool the overheating reactors. Amano arrived in Japan Friday to meet with top Japanese officials and learn how the IAEA can help with the crisis.

The increase in the nuclear accident's severity rating comes shortly after the chief secretary of Japan's cabinet, Yukio Edano, tried to calm fears about the radiation. He said elevated radiation levels detected kilometers away from the plant were not a health risk.

The International Atomic Energy Agency says that Japanese authorities have told them they have successfully laid a cable line to reactor number two at the nuclear plant. However, it is not clear how close workers are to actually restoring power.

The VOA correspondent in Japan's Fukushima Prefecture says government officials are not expecting power to be re-connected to reactors number two and three until Sunday.

The cooling problem is particularly critical at the number three nuclear reactor, where the risk of an increased level of radioactive leaks is considered especially high.

The risk of radiation poisoning has already forced the evacuation of more than 200,000 people who lived within 20 kilometers of the reactor site. Many are in makeshift shelters, with inadequate food, water and other supplies, in frigid winter weather.

For anyone still living inside a wider radius from the plant - 30 kilometers - Japanese authorities said everyone should remain indoors and take measures to minimize the amount of outside air entering their living quarters.

Three of the Fukushima plant's six reactors were operating when the quake struck, while three others were shut down for maintenance. Explosions have rocked the three units that had been in operation, causing varying degrees of damage.



Some information for this report was provided by AP, AFP and Reuters.

JohnQPublic
18th March 2011, 06:59 AM
Does anyone, realistically, have a better idea than this:



Bury nukes about 1/2 to 1/4 mile from the site, surrounding it. The nukes should be about 100 m underground. Detonate the nukes. This will cause massive amounts of dirt to go into the air, covering the site.

After the site is covered, a nuke should be buried directly beneath the power plant, to a depth deep enough that it will not rupture the ground when detonated. This nuke will crystallize the ground beneath the site, sealing out water and creating a type of glass.

I'm being completely serious.

(obviously they'd wait for a day when the wind would blow all the dust from the explosion out to sea)



Sounds like the BP solution.

bellevuebully
18th March 2011, 07:07 AM
Cnn.....4 minutes up front on nuclear plant. Then on to Libya. Nice job CNN. Stand down.

bellevuebully
18th March 2011, 07:14 AM
Still trying to pull cables in for power. Is it just me, or does that seem like a bit of a joke. Day 7 and there is still no power there. The whole east coast was unaffected (from what I know) and mainland China is nation growing at 10% per year......you think there might have been some cables/generators available a little sooner than 7 days out.

sirgonzo420
18th March 2011, 07:16 AM
I miss the buzzwords from the Gulf Oil Disaster...


Bring back "top kill" and "junkshot"!

bellevuebully
18th March 2011, 07:17 AM
Everything must be a-ok. Nothing being reported on the news. Saw Prince Andrew addressing a crowd in Christchurch. He sounded very sincere. I hope he had some sun block on, the weather was beautiful.

JohnQPublic
18th March 2011, 07:20 AM
I miss the buzzwords from the Gulf Oil Disaster...


Bring back "top kill" and "junkshot"!


I introduced another term on ZeroHedge- CTFN (cool the f-in nukes) to supplemnt BTFD.

bellevuebully
18th March 2011, 07:30 AM
Zero news on Fukishima.

Stunning.

crazychicken
18th March 2011, 07:44 AM
Someone finally remembered to hit the RESET BUTTON. ::)

CC




Zero news on Fukishima.

Stunning.

Spectrism
18th March 2011, 07:49 AM
All is well....


until HELL knocks on your door.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mhFXhO8iMwU/R1EOmGOGqUI/AAAAAAAAAec/o9Rlw_p0j4Y/s1600-R/anarcho%2Bclown.jpg

bellevuebully
18th March 2011, 08:00 AM
Maybe everything is fine and they are right again? Just take a look at the stock market moving up again!
All is well!



Third largest economy in the world sitting 150 miles from multiple nuclear emeregencies and the markets are up. Resiliency or illogical? I'll go with the latter.

edit.....sirgonzo the spell checker.

sirgonzo420
18th March 2011, 08:07 AM
Maybe everything is fine and they are right again? Just take a look at the stock market moving up again!
All is well!



Third largest economy in the world sitting 150 miles from multiple nuclear emeregencies and the markets are up. Resiliancy or illogical? I'll go with the latter.


How about resilient illogic?

Spectrism
18th March 2011, 08:18 AM
The stock market is displayed for the children.


http://www.motherearthnews.com/uploadedImages/articles/issues/2008-04-01/HyperKid.jpg

http://www.prostate.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/artificial-food-colorings1-284x380.jpg

Neuro
18th March 2011, 08:22 AM
Maybe everything is fine and they are right again? Just take a look at the stock market moving up again!
All is well!



Third largest economy in the world sitting 150 miles from multiple nuclear emeregencies and the markets are up. Resiliancy or illogical? I'll go with the latter.


How about resilient illogic?
That is a good one! Made me LOL!

JohnQPublic
18th March 2011, 08:47 AM
Radiation Reaches California (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/radiation-reaches-california)

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/18/2011 10:23 -0400

After travelling in the first class confines of the Gulf/Jetstream for the past 3 days, the Fukushima radiation has finally reached California. This happens just as The Hill reports Obama has oredered a full review of all US nuclear power plants. Look for the nuclear pair trade to become all the rage in the next week.

From Reuters:

Very low concentrations of radioactive particles believed to have come from Japan's Fukushima nuclear power plant have been detected on the U.S. west coast, diplomatic sources said on Friday.

The level of radiation was far too low to cause any harm to humans, they said.

One diplomat, citing information from a network of international monitoring stations, described the material as "ever so slight" and consisting of only a few particles.

"It is very low level," another source in Vienna said.

Until it isn't. Any since when are diplomats nuclear power experts?

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 08:52 AM
Radiation Reaches California (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/radiation-reaches-california)

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/18/2011 10:23 -0400

After travelling in the first class confines of the Gulf/Jetstream for the past 3 days, the Fukushima radiation has finally reached California. This happens just as The Hill reports Obama has oredered a full review of all US nuclear power plants. Look for the nuclear pair trade to become all the rage in the next week.

From Reuters:

Very low concentrations of radioactive particles believed to have come from Japan's Fukushima nuclear power plant have been detected on the U.S. west coast, diplomatic sources said on Friday.

The level of radiation was far too low to cause any harm to humans, they said.

One diplomat, citing information from a network of international monitoring stations, described the material as "ever so slight" and consisting of only a few particles.

"It is very low level," another source in Vienna said.

Until it isn't. Any since when are diplomats nuclear power experts?


why don't they give us the actual reading?

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 08:56 AM
typical for politicians a lot of speaking without saying anything

Neuro
18th March 2011, 09:07 AM
Radiation Reaches California (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/radiation-reaches-california)

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/18/2011 10:23 -0400

After travelling in the first class confines of the Gulf/Jetstream for the past 3 days, the Fukushima radiation has finally reached California. This happens just as The Hill reports Obama has oredered a full review of all US nuclear power plants. Look for the nuclear pair trade to become all the rage in the next week.

From Reuters:

Very low concentrations of radioactiv
e particles believed to have come from Japan's Fukushima nuclear power plant have been detected on the U.S. west coast, diplomatic sources said on Friday.


The level of radiation was far too low to cause any harm to humans, they said.
One diplomat, citing information from a network of international monitoring stations, described the material as "ever so slight" and consisting of only a few particles.

"It is very low level," another source in Vienna said.

Until it isn't. Any since when are diplomats nuclear power experts?



why don't they give us the actual reading?
Ohum, well [scratch head], you know giving the actual numbers, would cause alarm among the great unwashed goy... Errh... I mean general public, our experts know it is not dangerous, and the number of particles are not many, no need to worry, Dolly!

dys
18th March 2011, 09:09 AM
Still trying to pull cables in for power. Is it just me, or does that seem like a bit of a joke. Day 7 and there is still no power there. The whole east coast was unaffected (from what I know) and mainland China is nation growing at 10% per year......you think there might have been some cables/generators available a little sooner than 7 days out.


Katrina on steroids. The question I have is: is this another test case or is this the actual case?

dys

bellevuebully
18th March 2011, 09:23 AM
Southeast wind coming onshore.

Buckle up.

MNeagle
18th March 2011, 10:07 AM
Southeast wind coming onshore.

Buckle up.


ah, WHERE onshore please?

Thanks.

Neuro
18th March 2011, 10:10 AM
Southeast wind coming onshore.

Buckle up.
You'll get sunburn in the middle of the night standing in that wind. ;)

bellevuebully
18th March 2011, 10:17 AM
Southeast wind coming onshore.

Buckle up.


ah, WHERE onshore please?

Thanks.


Sorry MN..southeast wind coming inland around F/D nuclear site. Reported on CNN....sorry bout the lack of detail.

MNeagle
18th March 2011, 10:20 AM
Sorry, still not clear. What country, state?

I'll go look at CNN, thanks.

bellevuebully
18th March 2011, 10:22 AM
Southeast wind coming onshore.

Buckle up.
You'll get sunburn in the middle of the night standing in that wind. ;)


No doubt.

Still watching the news. It is amazing that the anchors on the msm (I'm watching major Cdn...cbc) are so serious about what they are reporting, like it's all so accurate and reliable. They are either extremely good actors or the most niave people in the world. Can't they see that most of what they report ends up in the 'bs file' after everything is said and done.


I wish they had a smite feature on the msm.....I'd start using it (heavily).

MNeagle
18th March 2011, 10:24 AM
Southeast wind coming onshore.

Buckle up.
You'll get sunburn in the middle of the night standing in that wind. ;)


No doubt.

Still watching the news. It is amazing that the anchors on the msm (I'm watching major Cdn...cbc) are so serious about what they are reporting, like it's all so accurate and reliable. They are either extremely good actors or the most niave people in the world. Can't they see that most of what they report ends up in the 'bs file' after everything is said and done.


I wish they had a smite feature on the msm.....I'd start using it (heavily).


Ah, you're watching cable. That explains it.

We don't carry it. But thanks for the update.

bellevuebully
18th March 2011, 10:29 AM
Sorry, still not clear. What country, state?

I'll go look at CNN, thanks.


Southeast winds reported to be blowing into Japan eastern coast. Stay well MN.

Cobalt
18th March 2011, 10:30 AM
Washington State Dept. of Health had so many inquiries about Radiation they decided to post the numbers they get from 4 sensors they have in the state.
At first I was happy but then after viewing the site I thought WTF

What worries me is the high past number I see in the chart and I don't recall anyone saying anything about it.

Tokyo gets hit with mid 30 CPM and people freak because they say normal is 10-20 CPM, we get 337 and nobody says a word. ???

The site is here
http://www.doh.wa.gov/Topics/japan/monitor.htm

lapis
18th March 2011, 10:36 AM
Tokyo gets hit with mid 30 CPM and people freak because they say normal is 10-20 CPM, we get 337 and nobody says a word. ???

That recording was from last month. But still, I can see why you're alarmed!

Neuro
18th March 2011, 11:09 AM
Tokyo gets hit with mid 30 CPM and people freak because they say normal is 10-20 CPM, we get 337 and nobody says a word. ???

That recording was from last month. But still, I can see why you're alarmed!
Some places have a high natural background radiation level, places with granite in the bed rock tend to have a lot of Radon coming out of the ground, those areas tend to have slightly elevated cancer deaths, but not a great impact on mortality rates.

DMac
18th March 2011, 11:31 AM
The moment nuclear plant chief WEPT as Japanese finally admit that radiation leak is serious enough to kill people (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367684/Nuclear-plant-chief-weeps-Japanese-finally-admit-radiation-leak-kill-people.html#ixzz1GyGNDETf)

snip, more at link


# Officials admit they may have to bury reactors under concrete - as happened at Chernobyl
# Government says it was overwhelmed by the scale of twin disasters
# Japanese upgrade accident from level four to five - the same as Three Mile Island
# We will rebuild from scratch says Japanese prime minister
# Particles spewed from wrecked Fukushima power station arrive in California
# Military trucks tackle reactors with tons of water for second day




http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/03/18/article-1367684-0B3BF1E700000578-880_472x491.jpg
Overwhelmed: Tokyo Electric Power Company Managing Director Akio Komiri cries as he leaves after a press conference in Fukushima

Cobalt
18th March 2011, 11:48 AM
The moment nuclear plant chief WEPT as Japanese finally admit that radiation leak is serious enough to kill people (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367684/Nuclear-plant-chief-weeps-Japanese-finally-admit-radiation-leak-kill-people.html#ixzz1GyGNDETf)

snip, more at link


# Officials admit they may have to bury reactors under concrete - as happened at Chernobyl
# Government says it was overwhelmed by the scale of twin disasters
# Japanese upgrade accident from level four to five - the same as Three Mile Island
# We will rebuild from scratch says Japanese prime minister
# Particles spewed from wrecked Fukushima power station arrive in California
# Military trucks tackle reactors with tons of water for second day




http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/03/18/article-1367684-0B3BF1E700000578-880_472x491.jpg
Overwhelmed: Tokyo Electric Power Company Managing Director Akio Komiri cries as he leaves after a press conference in Fukushima





I think he is crying because he just got word that the new plant that was supposed to start construction is now on hold

Japanese nuclear power plant operators have shelved plans to build 2 plants in northern Japan, in light of the nuclear crisis unfolding at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

On Thursday, Tokyo Electric Power Company, which was due to start building one plant in Aomori Prefecture next month, has notified the local government of its decision.

The No. 1 reactor of the plant was expected to go online in 6 years, with a projected capability of 1,380 megawatts, making it the most powerful in Japan.

Another plant operator, Electric Power Development, said it has put on hold the 3-year-old construction of a plant, also in Aomori.

That would have been the first in Japan to burn a mixture of uranium and plutonium extracted from spent fuel. The target year for its completion is 2014.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/17_36.html

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 12:02 PM
But the U.S. pools are storing much more spent fuel than the ones in Fukushima and "are currently holding, on the average, four times more than their design intended," he said.

we know that



That's because the United States has been unable to settle on long-term sites for storing waste from nuclear power plants.
Nearly a decade ago, Alvarez said, he began warning the United States about the need to pay more attention to risks at the open-air storage pools.

nothing is done for a decade.


Peter Bradford, a former commissioner at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, said questions have been raised for years about whether spent fuel is being safely stored at U.S. power plants.
"The Nuclear Regulatory Commission pretty bluntly shunted those questions aside," Bradford told Reuters Insider TV. Bradford said the commission even tried to prevent the publication of a study of the issue completed by the National Academy of Sciences.

"That kind of complacency, the sense that everything is good enough already, is very unlikely to persist in the wake of these events" in Japan, said Bradford, who is now an adjunct professor at the Vermont Law School.


where are the cops?

source
http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFN1825975320110318?sp=true

ximmy
18th March 2011, 12:07 PM
The moment nuclear plant chief WEPT as Japanese finally admit that radiation leak is serious enough to kill people (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367684/Nuclear-plant-chief-weeps-Japanese-finally-admit-radiation-leak-kill-people.html#ixzz1GyGNDETf)

snip, more at link


# Officials admit they may have to bury reactors under concrete - as happened at Chernobyl
# Government says it was overwhelmed by the scale of twin disasters
# Japanese upgrade accident from level four to five - the same as Three Mile Island
# We will rebuild from scratch says Japanese prime minister
# Particles spewed from wrecked Fukushima power station arrive in California
# Military trucks tackle reactors with tons of water for second day




http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/03/18/article-1367684-0B3BF1E700000578-880_472x491.jpg
Overwhelmed: Tokyo Electric Power Company Managing Director Akio Komiri cries as he leaves after a press conference in Fukushima



Maybe he is crying because an earthquake beat the shit out of his country, a tsunami wave then came and tore his countries legs off, and a nuclear meltdown tore the arms off his country, not to mention he may have lost his possessions, family, friends, and is overwhelmed with work without sleep, proper rest, food... and things are looking worse as the days pass... maybe that is why...

Horn
18th March 2011, 12:26 PM
Maybe he is crying because an earthquake beat the shit out of his country, a tsunami wave then came and tore his countries legs off, and a nuclear meltdown tore the arms off his country, not to mention he may have lost his possessions, family, friends, and is overwhelmed with work without sleep, proper rest, food... and things are looking worse as the days pass... maybe that is why...


Or large northern chunks of his fatherland will be made uninhabitable due to something he devote his life to.

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 12:33 PM
But the U.S. pools are storing much more spent fuel than the ones in Fukushima and "are currently holding, on the average, four times more than their design intended," he said.
we know that


That's because the United States has been unable to settle on long-term sites for storing waste from nuclear power plants.
Nearly a decade ago, Alvarez said, he began warning the United States about the need to pay more attention to risks at the open-air storage pools.
nothing is done for a decade.

Peter Bradford, a former commissioner at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, said questions have been raised for years about whether spent fuel is being safely stored at U.S. power plants.
"The Nuclear Regulatory Commission pretty bluntly shunted those questions aside," Bradford told Reuters Insider TV. Bradford said the commission even tried to prevent the publication of a study of the issue completed by the National Academy of Sciences.
"That kind of complacency, the sense that everything is good enough already, is very unlikely to persist in the wake of these events" in Japan, said Bradford, who is now an adjunct professor at the Vermont Law School.

where are the cops?
http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFN1825975320110318?sp=true

http://unlimitedwhispers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/jackson-highrez.jpg

Clinton-appointed Shirley Jackson, chairman of Nuclear Regulatory Commission from 1995 to 1999

madfranks
18th March 2011, 12:39 PM
Radiation Reaches California (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/radiation-reaches-california)

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/18/2011 10:23 -0400

After travelling in the first class confines of the Gulf/Jetstream for the past 3 days, the Fukushima radiation has finally reached California. This happens just as The Hill reports Obama has oredered a full review of all US nuclear power plants. Look for the nuclear pair trade to become all the rage in the next week.

From Reuters:

Very low concentrations of radioactive particles believed to have come from Japan's Fukushima nuclear power plant have been detected on the U.S. west coast, diplomatic sources said on Friday.

The level of radiation was far too low to cause any harm to humans, they said.

One diplomat, citing information from a network of international monitoring stations, described the material as "ever so slight" and consisting of only a few particles.

"It is very low level," another source in Vienna said.

Until it isn't. Any since when are diplomats nuclear power experts?


why don't they give us the actual reading?


Real time radiation levels across the country: http://radiationnetwork.com/

keehah
18th March 2011, 12:40 PM
30 CPM and people freak because they say normal is 10-20 CPM, we get 337 and nobody says a word. ???


360 plus counts per minute is the typical exposure while flying in a plane.

We did have some large solar flares recently.

http://www.airspacemag.com/need-to-know/NEED-radiation.html

A solar flare can raise radiation levels. U.S. Department of Energy scientists extrapolated the exposure of a high-flying supersonic aircraft during the strongest known solar event—a 1956 solar flare—and concluded that the flare likely would have boosted exposure to 10 mSv per hour.

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 12:41 PM
here is another one:

The Honorable Dale E. Klein
http://prelas.nuclear.missouri.edu/NE401/LW2002/TheHonorableDaleKlein.jpg

appointed Chairman by President George W. Bush and served in that role from July 1, 2006, to May 13, 2009

JohnQPublic
18th March 2011, 12:47 PM
MIT NSE Nuclear Information Hub (http://mitnse.com/)
News update, 3/18
Posted on March 18, 2011 10:19 am UTC by mitnse
News Brief, 3/18/11, 10 AM EDT

Spraying of spent fuel pools at Units 3 and 4 is still underway. Visual inspection of Unit 4’s pool showed water in the pool, and so efforts have been temporarily focused upon Unit 3. While efforts at using helicopters to dump water onto the pools had been largely unsuccessful , army firetrucks used in putting out aircraft fires have been employed with some success. The elite Tokyo Hyper Rescue component of the Tokyo fire department has arrived on scene and is conducting missions of roughly two hours in length, during which they spray the pools for 7-8 minutes, wait for steam to dissipate, and spray again.

A cable has been laid from a TEPCO power line 1.5 km from the facility, which will be used to supply power to emergency cooling systems of the reactors at Units 1 and 2.

Backup diesel generators have been connected to cool the spent fuel pools at Units 5 and 6. As of 4 PM JST, temperatures in those pools have reached 65.5 and and 62 degrees Celsius.

Visual inspections have been conducted of both the central spent fuel pool, which contains 60% of the facility’s fuel, and the dry cask storage area. Water levels at the central pool have been described as “secured”, and the dry casks show “no signs of an abnormal situation”. More detailed checks of these areas are planned for the future.

A Japanese government agency has released the results of radiation measurements at dozens of monitoring posts. See the data here: http://www.mext.go.jp/component/a_menu/other/detail/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2011/03/18/1303727_1716.pdf.

These measurements give doses in excess of background radiation, which is why some may appear low. High measurements at reading point 32 are thought to be the result of a controlled containment venting and a simultaneous fire which carried radioactive particles inland. Over the course of the incident, the general trend has been for weather patterns to sweep radioactive particles out to sea.

As a result of these radiation measurements and the ongoing work, the Japanese Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency upgraded the event to a 5 on the INES scale. This is the same level as the Three Mile Island accident, and two steps below Chernobyl.

Resources: ANS Nuclear Café’; World Nuclear News,; IAEA; Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology (MEXT).

Note: We earlier reported the temperature of spent fuel pool 6 as 84 degrees C. This was a typographical error. We apologize for the mistake.

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 12:48 PM
and the last but not least honorable Nils J Diaz

http://hps.org/images/nilsdiaz.jpg

Chairman of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 2003 - 2006

keehah
18th March 2011, 12:56 PM
The elite Tokyo Hyper Rescue component of the Tokyo fire department has arrived on scene and is conducting missions of roughly two hours in length, during which they spray the pools for 7-8 minutes, wait for steam to dissipate, and spray again.

Should they not be sacrificing their lowest grade component of the Tokyo fire department for this task?

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 01:00 PM
http://www.mext.go.jp/component/a_menu/other/detail/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2011/03/18/1303727_1716.pdf.


there are quite a few readings higher than 100 µSv/h and even close to 200 as far as 30 km from the plant

Let me remind people here, that according to the 10 CFR Part 20 government regulation,

permissible dose for members of the public is 20 µSv in any one hour and no more than 1000 µSv per year

Which means that the permissible yearly dose limit gets exceeded in only 5 hour

the consequence is increased chance of cancer

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 01:06 PM
on the second examintion
1. it appears that only neighboring points 33, 32 at 31 give out consistently higher readings
2. over approx 3 hours timeframe readings are stable

thank you Japan for the data

DMac
18th March 2011, 01:16 PM
The moment nuclear plant chief WEPT as Japanese finally admit that radiation leak is serious enough to kill people (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367684/Nuclear-plant-chief-weeps-Japanese-finally-admit-radiation-leak-kill-people.html#ixzz1GyGNDETf)

snip, more at link


# Officials admit they may have to bury reactors under concrete - as happened at Chernobyl
# Government says it was overwhelmed by the scale of twin disasters
# Japanese upgrade accident from level four to five - the same as Three Mile Island
# We will rebuild from scratch says Japanese prime minister
# Particles spewed from wrecked Fukushima power station arrive in California
# Military trucks tackle reactors with tons of water for second day




Overwhelmed: Tokyo Electric Power Company Managing Director Akio Komiri cries as he leaves after a press conference in Fukushima



Maybe he is crying because an earthquake beat the shit out of his country, a tsunami wave then came and tore his countries legs off, and a nuclear meltdown tore the arms off his country, not to mention he may have lost his possessions, family, friends, and is overwhelmed with work without sleep, proper rest, food... and things are looking worse as the days pass... maybe that is why...


Seppuku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku)

Seppuku ("stomach-cutting") is a form of Japanese ritual suicide by disembowelment. Seppuku was originally reserved only for samurai. Part of the samurai bushido honor code, seppuku was used voluntarily by samurai to die with honour rather than fall into the hands of their enemies (and likely suffer torture), as a form of capital punishment for samurai who had committed serious offenses, or performed for other reasons that had brought shame to them.

Wakizashi (http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakizashi)

(Seppuku)

The wakizashi sword was much used in the ritual of seppuku (suicide because of lost honor). In this ritual it was used along with the shortest Japanese sword - Tanto. The wakizashi was thrust into the torso (body), cutting open vertically. This kind of death was considered honorable for a samurai.

______________

Crying is for the likes of John Boehner and sad Brittany fans.

JohnQPublic
18th March 2011, 01:17 PM
Some interesting out-takes from this 2003 report (http://www.irss-usa.org/pages/documents/11_1Alvarez.pdf):

Reducing the Hazards from Stored Spent Power-Reactor Fuel in the United States
Robert Alvarez, Jan Beyea, Klaus Janberg, Jungmin Kang, Ed Lyman, Allison Macfarlane, Gordon Thompson, Frank N. von Hippel

"Because of the unavailability of off-site storage for spent power-reactor fuel, the NRC
has allowed high-density storage of spent fuel in pools originally designed to hold much
smaller inventories. As a result, virtually all U.S. spent-fuel pools have been re-racked
to hold spent-fuel assemblies at densities that approach those in reactor cores. In order
to prevent the spent fuel from going critical, the fuel assemblies are partitioned off from
each other in metal boxes whose walls contain neutron-absorbing boron. It has been
known for more than two decades that, in case of a loss of water in the pool, convective
air cooling would be relatively ineffective in such a “dense-packed” pool. Spent fuel
recently discharged from a reactor could heat up relatively rapidly to temperatures at
which the zircaloy fuel cladding could catch fire and the fuel’s volatile fission products,
including 30-year half-life 137Cs, would be released. The fire could well spread to older
spent fuel. The long-term land-contamination consequences of such an event could be
significantly worse than those from Chernobyl.

No such event has occurred thus far..."


"Although a number of isotopes are of concern, we focus here on the fission
product 137Cs. It has a 30-year half-life, is relatively volatile and, along with
its short-lived decay product, barium-137 (2.55 minute half-life), accounts for
about half of the fission-product activity in 10-year-old spent fuel.15 It is a
potent land contaminant because 95% of its decays are to an excited state of
137Ba, which de-excites by emitting a penetrating (0.66-MeV) gamma ray."

"The cooling water in a spent-fuel pool could be lost in a number of ways, through
accidents or malicious acts."

"Keeping spent fuel cool is less demanding than keeping the core in an operating
reactor cool. Five minutes after shutdown, nuclear fuel is still releasing 800 kilowatts
of radioactive heat per metric ton of uranium (kWt/tU)30. However, after
several days, the decay heat is down to 100 kWt/tU and after 5 years the level
is down to 2–3 kWt/tU (see Figure 5).
In case of a loss of cooling, the time it would take for a spent-fuel pool
to boil down to near the top of the spent fuel would be more than 10 days if
the most recent spent-fuel discharge had been a year before. If the entire core
of a reactor had been unloaded into the spent fuel pool only a few days after
shutdown, the time could be as short as a day.31 Early transfer of spent fuel into
storage pools has become common as reactor operators have reduced shutdown
periods. Operators often transfer the entire core to the pool in order to expedite
refueling or to facilitate inspection of the internals of the reactor pressure vessel
and identification and replacement of fuel rods leaking fission products."

"Once the pool water level is below the top of the fuel, the gamma radiation
level would climb to 10,000 rems/hr at the edge of the pool and 100’s of
rems/hr in regions of the spent-fuel building out of direct sight of the fuel because
of scattering of the gamma rays by air and the building structure (see
Figure 6).35 At the lower radiation level, lethal doses would be incurred within
about an hour.36 Given such dose rates, the NRC staff assumed that further
ad hoc interventions would not be possible.37"

"U.S. storage pools—like those in Europe and Japan—were originally sized
on the assumption that the spent fuel would be stored on site for only a few
years until itwas cool enough to transport to a reprocessing plant where the fuel
would be dissolved and plutonium and uranium recovered for recycle."

"The original design density of spent fuel in the pools associated with PWRs had the fuel assemblies spaced out
in a loose square array. The standard spacing for new dense-pack racks today is
23 cm—barely above the 21.4 cm spacing in reactor cores.50 This “dense-packed”
fuel is kept sub-critical by enclosing each fuel assembly in a metal box whose
walls contain neutron-absorbing boron51"

"During a partial uncovering of the
fuel, the openings at the bottoms of the spent-fuel racks would be covered in
water, completely blocking air from circulating up through the fuel assemblies.
The portions above the water would be cooled primarily by steam produced by
the decay heat in the below-surface portions of the fuel rods in the assemblies
and by blackbody radiation.53
In the absence of any cooling, a freshly-discharged core generating decay
heat at a rate of 100 kWt/tU would heat up adiabatically within an hour to
about 600±C, where the zircaloy cladding would be expected to rupture under
the internal pressure from helium and fission product gases,54 and then to
about 900±C where the cladding would begin to burn in air.55 It will be seen
that the cooling mechanisms in a drained dense-packed spent-fuel pool would
be so feeble that they would only slightly reduce the heatup rate of such hot fuel."

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 01:17 PM
link to the document (http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part020/part020-1301.html)

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 01:28 PM
In case of a loss of cooling, the time it would take for a spent-fuel pool
to boil down to near the top of the spent fuel would be more than 10 days if
the most recent spent-fuel discharge had been a year before. If the entire core
of a reactor had been unloaded into the spent fuel pool only a few days after
shutdown, the time could be as short as a day

so, when the cores were unloaded?

Horn
18th March 2011, 01:30 PM
The elite Tokyo Hyper Rescue component of the Tokyo fire department has arrived on scene and is conducting missions of roughly two hours in length, during which they spray the pools for 7-8 minutes, wait for steam to dissipate, and spray again.

Should they not be sacrificing their lowest grade component of the Tokyo fire department for this task?


If they don't send the elite squad, someone will suggest that they train the PM.

nunaem
18th March 2011, 01:38 PM
Seppuku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku)

Seppuku ("stomach-cutting") is a form of Japanese ritual suicide by disembowelment. Seppuku was originally reserved only for samurai. Part of the samurai bushido honor code, seppuku was used voluntarily by samurai to die with honour rather than fall into the hands of their enemies (and likely suffer torture), as a form of capital punishment for samurai who had committed serious offenses, or performed for other reasons that had brought shame to them.

Wakizashi (http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakizashi)

(Seppuku)

The wakizashi sword was much used in the ritual of seppuku (suicide because of lost honor). In this ritual it was used along with the shortest Japanese sword - Tanto. The wakizashi was thrust into the torso (body), cutting open vertically. This kind of death was considered honorable for a samurai.

______________

Crying is for the likes of John Boehner and sad Brittany fans.


Antonio posted this earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WMEczUd_W8

Antonio
18th March 2011, 02:23 PM
I hate to mention it now but last night I read a Russian site where they published Japanese headlines during Chernobyl.

They were such as "Savages with nuclear power", " KGB is pushing millions of slaves to work on suicide missions" etc.

Now Japs are on their knees begging USA and Russia to help them.

I think I`ll watch Chris Farley Japanese Game Show once again:
http://vodpod.com/watch/866615-chris-farley-japanese-game-show

JohnQPublic
18th March 2011, 02:47 PM
In case of a loss of cooling, the time it would take for a spent-fuel pool
to boil down to near the top of the spent fuel would be more than 10 days if
the most recent spent-fuel discharge had been a year before. If the entire core
of a reactor had been unloaded into the spent fuel pool only a few days after
shutdown, the time could be as short as a day

so, when the cores were unloaded?


For the worst one (3 or 4, not sure) it was a few days before the earthquake.

edit to add: the one also containing plutonium (MOX or mixed oxide fuel).

beefsteak
18th March 2011, 02:55 PM
Washington State Dept. of Health had so many inquiries about Radiation they decided to post the numbers they get from 4 sensors they have in the state.
At first I was happy but then after viewing the site I thought WTF

What worries me is the high past number I see in the chart and I don't recall anyone saying anything about it.

Tokyo gets hit with mid 30 CPM and people freak because they say normal is 10-20 CPM, we get 337 and nobody says a word. ???

The site is here
http://www.doh.wa.gov/Topics/japan/monitor.htm


Did the site operator change the charted data after you posted what you saw?
The "337 reading" to which you referred is not visible to me now. Wouldn't this "modification" to your reported date, relegate this WA site you cite to the "unreliable dustbin?"

I know my eyebrows would have risen had I seen what you saw.

Any comments, cobalt?


beefsteak

Spectrism
18th March 2011, 02:59 PM
We may not have gotten intelligence, honesty or knowledge of nuclear power in the offices overseeing this critical nuclear industry, but you gotta give us credit for getting DIVERSITY in hiring the right colors of people.

Cobalt
18th March 2011, 03:04 PM
Washington State Dept. of Health had so many inquiries about Radiation they decided to post the numbers they get from 4 sensors they have in the state.
At first I was happy but then after viewing the site I thought WTF

What worries me is the high past number I see in the chart and I don't recall anyone saying anything about it.

Tokyo gets hit with mid 30 CPM and people freak because they say normal is 10-20 CPM, we get 337 and nobody says a word. ???

The site is here
http://www.doh.wa.gov/Topics/japan/monitor.htm


Did the site operator change the charted data after you posted what you saw?
The "337 reading" to which you referred is not visible to me now. Wouldn't this "modification" to your reported date, relegate this WA site you cite to the "unreliable dustbin?"

I know my eyebrows would have risen had I seen what you saw.

Any comments, cobalt?


beefsteak


Still showing 337, it is the last moth high for Spokane

crazychicken
18th March 2011, 03:08 PM
I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you! You are so--so--so ACCURATE! ::) ::) ::)

CC




We may not have gotten intelligence, honesty or knowledge of nuclear power in the offices overseeing this critical nuclear industry, but you gotta give us credit for getting DIVERSITY in hiring the right colors of people.

osoab
18th March 2011, 03:16 PM
Snips from the same article Dmac posted. The last quote I think is interesting.

The moment nuclear plant chief WEPT as Japanese finally admit that radiation leak is serious enough to kill people (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367684/Nuclear-plant-chief-weeps-Japanese-finally-admit-radiation-leak-kill-people.html)


Officials at Fukushima are rapidly running out of options to halt the crisis. Military trucks are spraying the reactors for a second days with tons of water arcing over the facility.

Engineers are trying to get the coolant pumping systems knocked out by the tsunami working again after laying a new power line from the main grid.

And they today admitted that burying reactors under sand and concrete - the solution adopted in Chernobyl - may be the only option to stop a catastrophic radiation release.

It was the first time the facility operator had acknowledged burying the sprawling 40-year-old complex was possible, a sign that piecemeal actions such as dumping water from military helicopters or scrambling to restart cooling pumps may not work.

'It is not impossible to encase the reactors in concrete. But our priority right now is to try and cool them down first,' an official from the plant operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co, told a news conference.

But some experts warned that even the concrete solution was not without risks.

'It's just not that easy,' Murray Jennex, a professor at San Diego State University in California, said when asked about the so-called Chernobyl option for dealing with damaged reactors, named after the Ukrainian nuclear plant that exploded in 1986.

I think a few people have discussed that "even with power will everything work" angle.

There was a potential breakthrough when engineers succeeded in connecting a power line to Reactor 2. This should enable them to restore electricity to the cooling pumps needed to prevent meltdown.

But it is not certain the system will work after suffering extensive damage.

These are the highest readings I have seen for the plant.

Later, six fire engines and a water cannon tried to spray the building with 9,000 gallons of water from high pressure hoses. However, radiation levels within the plant rose from 3,700 millisieverts to 4,000 millisieverts an hour immediately afterwards.

People exposed to such doses will suffer radiation sickness and many will die. Today Tokyo Electric Power, which owns the plant, will try to restart the reactor's cooling systems after workers connected a half mile long power cable from the national grid to Reactor 2.

Spokesman Teruaki Kobayashi said: 'This is the first step towards recovery.'

He added: 'We are doing all we can as we pray for the situation to improve.'

Last night 14,000 were confirmed dead or missing in Japan and 492,000 are homeless. There are 850,000 households in the north of the main island without electricity in freezing temperatures.

osoab
18th March 2011, 03:26 PM
Denninger has a ticker that is very interesting. Basically we were extorting the Japanese is the jist of the story. I can't find the tweet Denninger links to. I think we are on the next day now.

Nuclear Problem In Japan: Is Obama Partly Responsible? (http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=182524)

Japan rejected early US help on nuclear disaster: Report (http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_646444.html)


TOKYO - JAPAN turned down a US offer to provide technical support for cooling fuel rods at nuclear reactors hit by a massive earthquake and tsunami, a newspaper reported on Friday.

The United States made the offer immediately after the disaster caused damage to Fukushima No.1 nuclear plant, the Yomiuri Shimbun said, quoting a senior official of the ruling Democratic Party of Japan.

According to the unnamed senior official, US support was based on dismantling the troubled reactors run by Tokyo Electric Power (Tepco) some 250km north-east of Tokyo, the mass-circulation daily said.

The government and Tepco, both having first thought the cooling system could be restored by themselves, rejected the offer as they believed 'it was too early to take,' Yomiuri said.

Some ruling party and government officials pointed that the country could have avoided the current crisis if Prime Minister Naoto Kan's government had accepted the offer, it said.

On Thursday, the Japanese military used trucks and helicopters to dump tonnes of water onto the plant in efforts to douse fuel rods and prevent a disastrous radiation release. The 9.0-magnitude quake, the biggest on record to strike Japan, hit the eastern coast of the Tohoku region, north of the capital, on Friday last week, leaving 15,000 dead or missing. -- AFP

I am guessing that they are only talking about the 6 reactors at Daiishi. This also could have only dealt with the first reactor that had blown. Either way if true, we with held help using leverage.

I wouldn't lay this on Obummer, though. Just his handlers and the bankers.

ximmy
18th March 2011, 03:27 PM
I wonder how many cpm's a cell phone creates...

osoab
18th March 2011, 03:28 PM
In case of a loss of cooling, the time it would take for a spent-fuel pool
to boil down to near the top of the spent fuel would be more than 10 days if
the most recent spent-fuel discharge had been a year before. If the entire core
of a reactor had been unloaded into the spent fuel pool only a few days after
shutdown, the time could be as short as a day

so, when the cores were unloaded?


For the worst one (3 or 4, not sure) it was a few days before the earthquake.

edit to add: the one also containing plutonium (MOX or mixed oxide fuel).


Explosion rocks Japanese nuclear power plant; 5 reactors in peril (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/japan-11nuclear-reactors-shut-down/2011/03/11/ABjmSxQ_story.html)


Construction of Unit 1, a 439-megawatt boiling water reactor, started in 1967, and commercial operation began in 1971. It was reportedly scheduled to be shut down on March 26.

Unit one was the one to be shut down permanently. Unit 1 did not use MOX. That was number 3.

osoab
18th March 2011, 03:32 PM
Above Japan nuclear plant is a no-go for US Navy (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/japan-11nuclear-reactors-shut-down/2011/03/11/ABjmSxQ_story.html)


The restricted zone covers a radius of 100 nautical miles — or about 115 miles or 185 kilometers — above the Fukushima plant. The area is more than twice the 50-mile (80-kilometer) radius the U.S. government has urged Americans to avoid on the ground, which in turn is larger than the area where the Japanese government says people should either leave or stay indoors to prevent radiation exposure.

Setting a wider safety zone for Americans was seen as another rebuke of Japan's handling of the Fukushima crisis, which U.S. officials said was bleaker than the Japanese government has stated. The Navy this week widened its restricted flight zone first to 25 nautical miles (30 miles or 45 kilometers), then to 50 nautical miles (60 miles or 90 kilometers) and finally by Friday to 100 nautical miles.

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 03:56 PM
I wonder how many cpm's a cell phone creates...


nil

keehah
18th March 2011, 04:20 PM
Nuclear Apocalypse in Japan
Lifting the Veil of Nuclear Catastrophe and cover-up (http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23764)

by Keith Harmon Snow Global Research, March 18, 2011

THE ARROGANCE OF HUMANISM

"I repeat, there was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity from the damaged Japanese reactors," wrote Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor Dr. Joseph Oehmen on March 13. "By 'significant' I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on -- say -- a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation."

So begins a recent U.S. business sector article titled You Can Stop Worrying About A Radiation Disaster in Japan -- Here's Why, published four days after the earthquake struck in Japan. It has already proved false. Properly understood for what it is -- a childish, myopic, arrogant attempt to belittle the truth and influence public opinion -- the article provides an apt example of the rampant industry disinformation that is sweeping aside rational and compassionate and precautionary assessments with irrational jingoism, simplistic emotional appeals, and wrong-headed thinking. The post went viral and was republished widely.

How do we define apocalypse? EARTHQUAKE + TSUNAMI + AGED NUKE PLANT + LOSS-OF-COOLANT ACCIDENT + PLUTONIUM + FIRES + DISINFORMATION + GREED + DENIAL + FEAR + POLITICS = APOCALYPSE.

How many nuke plants are involved? We don't really know. Not that we have not been told, we have. There are six reactors at the Fukushima site, one reactor at the Tokai nuclear facility and three reactors at the stricken Onagawa nuclear complex. There are toxic chemical spills, petroleum refinery fires, gas fires, dangerous debris and human pathogens from the thousands of dead people and animals. The place is an apocalyptic nightmare, to be sure, but from the beginning the most important facts regarding the status of the nuclear pants and their components, their functioning or failing systems, the operability of the control rooms or integrity of the reactor containment structures, were being denied to the public. Now we are seeing some damage control by the U.S., the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the media.

It is simultaneously as though we are believed to be incapable of even the most rudimentary understanding of what is going on, while also being denied the truth in keeping with more than sixty years of secrecy and denial by the cult of the atom and its incestuous cult of intelligence.

Serpo
18th March 2011, 04:23 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-17/japan-s-nuclear-disaster-caps-decades-of-faked-safety-reports-accidents.html


Japan’s Nuclear Disaster Caps Decades of Faked Safety Reports, Accidents

G2Rad
18th March 2011, 08:43 PM
Washington State Dept. of Health had so many inquiries about Radiation they decided to post the numbers they get from 4 sensors they have in the state.
At first I was happy but then after viewing the site I thought WTF

What worries me is the high past number I see in the chart and I don't recall anyone saying anything about it.

Tokyo gets hit with mid 30 CPM and people freak because they say normal is 10-20 CPM, we get 337 and nobody says a word. ???

The site is here
http://www.doh.wa.gov/Topics/japan/monitor.htm

over years of wearing a sensor, I had a couple of alerts trigered by ....... people

Serpo
18th March 2011, 10:38 PM
Amazing footage of tsunami...

2nd video....


http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110318/ts_yblog_thelookout/listen-to-japans-massive-quake


also...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycf6mg3RZ_g&feature=player_embedded

earthquake gif....

http://geofon.gfz-potsdam.de/geofon/alerts/gfz2011ewla/animation_h600.gif

Cebu_4_2
18th March 2011, 10:44 PM
Amazing footage of tsunami...

2nd video....


http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110318/ts_yblog_thelookout/listen-to-japans-massive-quake


Watch the other video link, WOW

Serpo
18th March 2011, 10:47 PM
Amazing footage of tsunami...

2nd video....


http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110318/ts_yblog_thelookout/listen-to-japans-massive-quake


Watch the other video link, WOW



very errie

Cebu_4_2
18th March 2011, 10:54 PM
Watch the other video link, WOW

very errie
[/quote]

Thats not anything I could imagine in a doom video, much much more powerful without the drama. It is so powerful as you could imagine the souls being passed on to watched. Posted ot on my facebook, will probably get no comments as the same as when I email this out.... complete goym sheep man. I realized I have no friends, and if this gets no comments I have no associates... suits me just fine.

nunaem
19th March 2011, 12:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wYiNnHEGyY&feature=player_embedded#at=40

I hope that guy at 0:36 made it out alive. When the camera pans back to the building was standing on, it is gone. :-[

Serpo
19th March 2011, 02:28 AM
Fuel Amounts at Fukushima


http://allthingsnuclear.org/post/3927635973/fuel-amounts-at-fukushima




Dozens of Reactors in Quake Zones

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703512404576208872161503008.html

G2Rad
19th March 2011, 06:43 AM
Fuel Amounts at Fukushima
http://allthingsnuclear.org/post/3927635973/fuel-amounts-at-fukushima

thats much less than I feared.
if the numbers are true there is no significant threat to USA

mick silver
19th March 2011, 07:07 AM
we have a time bomb about to blow it top then we are starting a 3 war . just what the hell are the leaders of the world doing

po boy
19th March 2011, 08:04 AM
we have a time bomb about to blow it top then we are starting a 3 war . just what the hell are the leaders of the world doing


Whatever they want.

bellevuebully
19th March 2011, 09:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wYiNnHEGyY&feature=player_embedded#at=40

I hope that guy at 0:36 made it out alive. When the camera pans back to the building was standing on, it is gone. :-[


Wow. That is some footage.

DMac
19th March 2011, 03:54 PM
Fuel Amounts at Fukushima


http://allthingsnuclear.org/post/3927635973/fuel-amounts-at-fukushima





c/o George Washington's blog, supporting data at links:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/amount-radioactive-fuel-fukushima-dwarfs-chernobyl

Science Insider noted yesterday:

The Daiichi complex in Fukushima, Japan ... had a total of 1760 metric tons of fresh and used nuclear fuel on site last year, according to a presentation by its owners, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco). The most damaged Daiichi reactor, number 3, contains about 90 tons of fuel, and the storage pool above reactor 4, which the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's (NRC's) Gregory Jaczko reported yesterday had lost its cooling water, contains 135 tons of spent fuel. The amount of fuel lost in the core melt at Three Mile Island in 1979 was about 30 tons; the Chernobyl reactors had about 180 tons when the accident occurred in 1986.

And see this.

That means that Fukushima has nearly 10 times more nuclear fuel than Chernobyl.

It also means that a single spent fuel pool - at reactor 4, which has lost all of its water and thus faces a release of its radioactive material - has 75% as much nuclear fuel as at all of Chernobyl.

However, the real numbers are even worse.

Specifically, Tepco very recently transferred many more radioactive spent fuel rods into the storage pools. According to Associated Press, there were - at the time of the earthquake and tsunami - 3,400 tons of fuel in seven spent fuel pools plus 877 tons of active fuel in the cores of the reactors.

That totals 4,277 tons of nuclear fuel at Fukushima.

Which means that there is almost 24 times more nuclear fuel at Fukushima than Chernobyl.


:dunno

Glass
19th March 2011, 04:23 PM
What continues to strike me when I've watched these videos of the water is how unlike the disaster movies tidal waves these are. The phenomenal relentless force is evident. This is not a hundred feet high crashing wave breaking down onto a metropolis. This is a monumental swell that is just pushing forward with such speed. I think the toll is going to get revised up by a large number as they collect the figures but they will probably never know if they have right numbers. They will know what they have left but what they have lost is so much. I feel for those guys.

beefsteak
19th March 2011, 11:13 PM
Horror has settled into shocked numbness now. I can't imagine the "stages of grief" collectively being processed by so many millions of Japanese. And it's not over yet...not by a long shot. Maybe relegated to "below the fold" in the print media, and not the lead story on FOX, or CNN currently, preferring to highlight the atrocies from the sky in/on Libya.

My heart and head reels after this week. Unbelievable!

vacuum
19th March 2011, 11:31 PM
It seems the news has died down a little, but this is the type of thing that doesn't just go away if you ignore it.

beefsteak
20th March 2011, 09:15 AM
Agreed, vacuum.

-------------
Today's early sampling:

I noticed in a newsfeed sourced through correspondent AOL, that #3 is cooling. Is stabilizing. Is 572F temp. Is building up steam. Is going to be vented. Is not needing venting. Last time it was vented is when it exploded dramatically skyward. Fukushima will never be restarted. #5 & #6 are cooling. The mile long extension cord isn't plugged in yet. Spinach is rotting on the shelves in local grocery stores because one prefecture's farmer's spinach crop has tested radioactive. So has another farmer's milk. Tap water is showing radiation. Milk from one herd only to hear them tell it, is also radioactive. But all 3 are safe to consume. 1400 homeless are crammed into one gymnasium. And Ghadfyi is angry. Kind of in that order.

No wonder the locals are fearful of their government sourced news "leaks."

Serpo
20th March 2011, 01:28 PM
One of the most terrifying aspects of the devastation in Japan was watching that giant wave heading towards the shore and sweeping away everything in its path. Japanese coast guard vessel out on the open ocean was probably the first group of humans to encounter it alone.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrJYuyxrep4&NR=1

Serpo
20th March 2011, 02:20 PM
Old Time magazine article about fuel rods ect

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,984206,00.html#ixzz1H9UTLWbc

beefsteak
20th March 2011, 03:13 PM
Old Time magazine article about fuel rods ect

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,984206,00.html#ixzz1H9UTLWbc


Terrific info. Sometimes, older is better. Appears to be the case here. Thanks, Serpo.

Horn
20th March 2011, 06:01 PM
I wonder how many Japanese travel visas were being applied for this weekend?

Serpo
20th March 2011, 06:47 PM
Im sure we are all pleased to note that .......



Spraying of water resumes at crisis-hit Fukushima nuke plant

its alright just call the fire brigade


http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/79865.html

Dr. Chris Busby On Fukushima Radiation Risk
ECRR Risk Model And Radiation From Fukushima


http://www.rense.com/general93/chris.htm



So what is wrong on the other side of japan

http://www.bousai.ne.jp/eng/index.html

gunDriller
20th March 2011, 07:34 PM
we have a time bomb about to blow it top then we are starting a 3 war . just what the hell are the leaders of the world doing


they are funding and in other ways supporting their designated "democratic activists" in Egypt, Libya, etc.

basically, they are implementing Israel's next 10 year plan, for 2010 to 2020 - to expand the war in the Mid-East, so that it is basically a World War ... which it really was already.

it's all part of PNAC - Project for a New Jewish Century. basically, the 21st Century version of the Protocols.

Serpo
20th March 2011, 07:48 PM
we have a time bomb about to blow it top then we are starting a 3 war . just what the hell are the leaders of the world doing


they are funding and in other ways supporting their designated "democratic activists" in Egypt, Libya, etc.

basically, they are implementing Israel's next 10 year plan, for 2010 to 2020 - to expand the war in the Mid-East, so that it is basically a World War ... which it really was already.

it's all part of PNAC - Project for a New Jewish Century. basically, the 21st Century version of the Protocols.


http://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com/2011/03/one-of-darkest-evils-world-has-ever.html

Horn
20th March 2011, 09:45 PM
Six workers at stricken nuclear plant assigned to new tasks, while food supply problems grow


Six workers at the Fukushima nuclear power plant have been exposed to radiation levels beyond the usual legal limit while carrying out emergency operations to make the complex safe.

The news came amid reports that radiation from the stricken plant had found its way into the food supply, raising anxiety in a country already struggling to deal with the aftermath of the worst crisis in its postwar history.

Meanwhile Switzerland has announced it will move its embassy in Japan to Osaka because of fears radiation levels in Tokyo could increase.

The operator of the Fukushima plant, Tokyo Electric Power (Tepco), said it would have to vent radioactive gas from reactor 3, but later called off the risky procedure after pressure inside stabilised, albeit at a relatively high level.

The Kyodo news agency reported that Tepco said six staff members had been exposed to more than 100 milliSieverts of radiation, but had been assigned to other tasks and were continuing to work because they had not shown any abnormal signs since being exposed.

The government earlier increased to 250 mSv the limit for those working in the emergency operation.

Japan's fire and disaster management agency said readings of up to 27 mSv were detected on 50 firefighters. They were decontaminated after a 13-hour operation to spray water into the spent fuel pool at reactor 3 ended in the early hours of the morning.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/20/japan-nuclear-crisis-fukushima-workers

beefsteak
20th March 2011, 10:29 PM
ZeroHedge posted this in the last couple hours...


Japanese Metropolitan Radiation Readings Spike Once Again, As Wind Turns Toward Land
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/20/2011 17:55 -0400


One of the Fukushima fallout's saving graces so far has been that the winds over Japan had traditionally been blowing radiation out to sea and away from major cities. Alas, as the meteorological office indicates, this is no longer the case and border breezes are now tugging each and every way, with the result being a lot of the radiation already accumulated east over the Pacific coming back with a vengeance.

Unfortunately,the latest SPEEDI readings, indicate that the expected jump in gamma radiation has indeed been confirmed with reading every ten minutes over Ibaraki surging from mid triple digits over the past several days, to nearly 3000 nGy/h. While in the grand scheme of things this is still not a material threshold reading, it does confirm that the NPP continues to leak a dangerous amount of radiation, and the only key variable is the wind direction.

Should winds continue to blow from the sea, it is only a matter of time before more and more Tokyo residents ask themselves if it is worth finding out if the government is lying about this latest data figure.

Mouse
20th March 2011, 11:49 PM
If we could all agree on a measurement standard and what that meant, we might have a clue as to what is going on. They are measuring rads, milli-sieverts and every other incomprehensible measure in order to make sure we don't know what the hell an actual measurement is or means. Could someone please just tell us what's the measurement, Kenneth?

keehah
20th March 2011, 11:50 PM
Old Time magazine article about fuel rods etc.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,984206,00.html#ixzz1H9UTLWbc

Yes a good article.


Then, in late 1992, David Lochbaum and Don Prevatte, consultants working at Pennsylvania Power & Light's Susquehanna plant, began to analyze deficiencies in spent-fuel cooling systems. They realized that a problem had been sneaking up on the industry: half a dozen serious accidents at different plants had caused some water to drain from the pools. In the worst of them, at Northeast's Haddam Neck plant in 1984, a seal failure caused 200,000 gal. to drain in just 20 min. from a water channel next to the fuel pool. If the gate between the channel and the pool had been open, the pool could have drained, exposing the rods and causing a meltdown. Says Lochbaum: "It was a near miss."

The NRC insists that the chance of such an accident is infinitesimal.

SLV^GLD
21st March 2011, 05:27 AM
Could someone please just tell us what's the measurement, Kenneth?


nGy = nano Gray

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_%28unit%29


One gray is the absorption of one joule of energy, in the form of ionizing radiation, by one kilogram of matter.


For X-rays and gamma rays, these are the same units as the sievert (Sv). To avoid any risk of confusion between the absorbed dose (by matter) and the equivalent dose (by biological tissues), one must use the corresponding special units, namely the gray instead of the joule per kilogram for absorbed dose and the sievert instead of the joule per kilogram for the dose equivalent. The word "gray" is both the singular and plural spelling.


The gray measures the deposited energy of radiation. The biological effects vary by the type and energy of the radiation and the organism and tissues involved. The sievert attempts to account for these variations.

bellevuebully
21st March 2011, 05:55 AM
If we could all agree on a measurement standard and what that meant, we might have a clue as to what is going on. They are measuring rads, milli-sieverts and every other incomprehensible measure in order to make sure we don't know what the hell an actual measurement is or means. Could someone please just tell us what's the measurement, Kenneth?


Here is a practical application...

1 seivert = 100 rem

5 rem/year is standard allowable dose for nuclear energy worker from government standards.
1 to 2 rem/year is common allowable dose for nuclear energy workers from company standards.

The thing to bear in mind is that all of these measurements should be given as a function of time...ie)0.1 mSv/hr or something like that. That would refer to a dose 'rate'. If no unit is applied, technically it applies to dose exposure.

Being that there is 8760 hrs in a year, having a background of 1.75millirem/hr would expose a person to the max allowable dose (government standards) for a year. Likely, this 'should' not compromise health....but that is just a general acceptable convention. I would consider 5 rem (5000 millirem) a substantial dose for the year....quite substantial, and would not want to repeat that again the following, or any other year.

On a personal level, if I saw levels of 1/4 of that rate (0.4 millirem/hour) I would not consider that an acceptable place to have my family on any duration of term. It would not be immediately dangerous to health or life, but there is no way I would expose my kids/wife willingly to more radiation than 90% of nuclear workers in North America get. The most I might be willing to expose my family to is 0.01 - 0.02 millirem/hr which would equate to an overall yearly dose of 100 mr/year.....which is 1/4 of what I got last year working in the industry. And even then, I would consider that far from ideal.

I should add that the rates I give above would be those above naturally occuring background levels.

Here is a link to view....http://www.ornl.gov/sci/env_rpt/aser95/tb-a-2.pdf

Hope that helps Mouse.

Awoke
21st March 2011, 07:23 AM
Now that this thread is moved, there is no Thanks feature.

>:(

Thanks Bellevue.

bellevuebully
21st March 2011, 07:39 AM
Now that this thread is moved, there is no Thanks feature.

>:(

Thanks Bellevue.


Thanks Awoke ;D

beefsteak
21st March 2011, 11:37 AM
Two different sources on TV have stated #3 reactor "blew" for a second time last 12 hours. This is the only visual record I've found so far. http://hosted.ap.org/photos/E/e2a8940d-108a-4b04-91a1-a07b46e26a78-big.jpg While this TEPCO photo is not showing the actual explosion, the ground level photo perspective certainly makes the damage to #3 look more severe and the "denting of #4 more pronounced. #3 "looks shorter" than I recall earlier photos showing this site. The caption below the above photo states:

In this photo released by Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO), gray smoke rises from Unit 3 of the tsunami-stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant in Okumamachi, Fukushima Prefecture, Japan, Monday, March 21, 2011. Official says the TEPCO temporarily evacuated its workers from the site. At left is Unit 2 and at right is Unit 4. (AP Photo/Tokyo Electric Power Co.) EDITORIAL USE ONLY

This difference in #3, #4 perspective vs prior overhead shots is far more troubling to me in terms of understanding the extent of damage and ongoing, concomitant release of radiation.

Horn
21st March 2011, 11:43 AM
This difference in #3, #4 perspective vs prior overhead shots is far more troubling to me in terms of understanding the extent of damage and ongoing, concomitant release of radiation.


I saw a couple video snippets on CNN, and it was smoke this time.

Not the original steam that was seen before.

The story itself seems to have lost some energy for some reason?

Neuro
21st March 2011, 11:49 AM
I wonder if reactor 3's pool is still there, as far as I know the spent fuel rods were supposed to be stored above the reactor, seems like most of the over ground structure is totally demolished, are the still attempting to splash water on the assemblies? Or have they given up?

Awoke
21st March 2011, 11:54 AM
Thanks JQP, for adding the Thanks feature.

Olmstein
21st March 2011, 03:41 PM
More smoke coming from reactors, workers evacuated again.


Radioactive food fears grow in Japan

Japan is continuing to deal with a nuclear emergency as fears of food contamination grow and high levels of radioactive substances are found in seawater near the crippled Fukushima plant.

The news comes amid another setback in efforts to cool the earthquake-crippled nuclear plant, with officials spotting grey smoke coming from the roof of the No. 3 reactor.

Some workers were temporarily evacuated from the nuclear plant, 250km north-east of Tokyo, but there are reports smoke can no longer be seen rising from that reactor.

The World Health Organisation says the detection of radiation in food is a more serious problem than first expected and food contamination is not a localised problem.

More at Link. (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/22/3170109.htm)

beefsteak
21st March 2011, 04:27 PM
Olmstein,
your link also states TEPCO claims all 6 reactors have had electricity restored to them. Not too sure what to make of that statement, let alone the TEPCO spokespersons making said claim.

Thanks for the link.

gunDriller
21st March 2011, 06:19 PM
the latest update from Zero Hedge about surface reactor temps @ 128 C, when it is reported that they are below 100 C (boiling point of water.)

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/bernanke/Fukushima_hoch_DW__1340857z.jpg

my instinctive reaction about pouring sand on the fuel storage areas - it tends to isolate the heat source thermally. which means it gets hotter.

i don't yet understand their reasoning.

there's a reason they use water to cool nuclear power plants - water flows. old water heats up and is pumped back into the ocean, new water is pumped in.

that doesn't work so well with sand.

i have to wonder how much "crossing of fingers" went into this move.


the geologists at TheOilDrum.com
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7697#more

have a great article about the dependence of the Japanese reactors on liquid fuel to cool them - and the shortage of liquid fuels. the quake knocked out 1/3 to 1/2 of their 29 refineries. it's obvious that the reactor would get priority among liquid fuel consumers.

"One consequence of the Japanese earthquake and tsunami that is not receiving as much press as the ongoing struggle to cool the damaged reactors, but which continues to influence more people, is the lack of fuel. Nine of the Japanese refineries were damaged and put out of action, and this dropped the amount of fuel being refined from 4,500,000 bd down to 3,100,000 bd. (Note that the Guardian report I quoted earlier was off by a factor of ten.) The lack of fuel for transportation affects not only those in the disaster area, but also those away from it, since food and fuel itself depend on transport to move it to customers around the country.

"What we urgently need now is fuel, heavy and light oil, water and food. More than anything else, we need fuel because we can't do anything without it. We can't stay warm or work the water pumps," said Masao Hara, the mayor of Koriyama city, in Fukushima prefecture.

The refineries that remain in production are responding to the need. Idemitsi Kosan has raised production at its four refineries by 83,200 bd (from 87% to 100% production) and Cosmo Oil has raised production at its two operating refineries by an additional 80,000 bd but this does not match the size of the problem.

There are several different aspects to the problem; first the oil has to come ashore. With ports closed and unable to re-open for possibly months, shipments from the Middle East, which supplies 80% of Japan’s need, have now been curtailed until the situation becomes clearer. Within the country, the Japanese Government has released around 8 million barrels of oil from their strategic reserve. It is also shipping 250,000 barrels of refined product to the area affected by sea (though this runs into the issue of how to get into the ports and distribution network). At Chiba some of the port has been able to re-open but not the terminal that fed to the Cosmo refinery (since that had burned)."

Spectrism
21st March 2011, 07:06 PM
Trust none of the govenment reports. Liars, like scum, float to the top of political pots in a corrupt world.

When all of Japan is blanketed with deadly fallout, then they will say the radiation is bad. When radiation levels in Alaska and California are "unhealthy" they will tell people to minimize outside activity.

Forget about eating seafood anymore. Done.

Cobalt
21st March 2011, 07:11 PM
The levels in many areas are high and appear to be rising in some other areas


I like this map because below it you can see levels for the past several days instead of just hearing on the news that they are "low"

http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=4870

bellevuebully
21st March 2011, 07:29 PM
When all of Japan is blanketed with deadly fallout, then they will say the radiation is bad.

Until then......

Serpo
21st March 2011, 11:36 PM
thermal shot...


http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/bernanke/heatAll.jpg

Serpo
22nd March 2011, 02:08 AM
To cool quake-ravaged systems at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear reactors, Japanese authorities have funneled water in from the sea, dumped it from helicopters, shot it from fire trucks and of late had success reestablishing pumps.

Now, they are reportedly bringing in a new weapon: A powerful Chinese-made truck designed to shoot wet concrete several stories into the air.

Sany Group
A truck-mounted concrete pump manufactured by China’s Sany Group is employed in the construction of a power plant in Arkansas. Sany says it has sent one of its longest truck-mounted pumps to aid with containment efforts at the quake-damaged Fukushima nuclear reactor in Japan.

Changsha-based Sany Group Co. says its 62-meter truck-mounted concrete pump, used to build some of the world’s tallest skyscrapers, is on its way to Fukushima at the request of Tokyo Electric Co., or Tepco. The plan, according a statement posted on Sany’s website, is to use the machine to pump water toward Tepco’s reactor No. 4.
More In Earthquake
Taiwan Hotels Prepare for U.S. Flight From Japan
More Reassurance in China on Radiation
China Watch: Quake Hits Supply Line, 'Red Dawn' Redrawn
In Quake's Wake, Taiwan Rapper Sends Love to Japan (Video)
China Fights Fears and Rumors of Japan Radiation


Already well known in the construction industry, Sany is making a name for itself in disaster relief as well – partly with its own stream of press releases.

A huge crane Sany built was instrumental in the rescue of Chilean miners last year. The Chinese company also claims a role in rescuing Colombians trapped in mud). On the domestic front, the company sent a team to the site of Sichuan’s 2008 earthquake to help clear roads and extract survivors from the rubble.

Sany says the truck sent to Japan, originally ordered by a Saudi client and worth roughly $1 million, is being sent free of charge to the nuclear plant and was requested personally by Tepco President Masataka Shimizu. “Since the break out of Japan’s nuclear crises in Fukushima nuclear power station, the determination and the strong will of Japanese people have touched the whole world,” the Sany statement said.

Sany isn’t the only construction equipment maker contributing to the radiation containment effort. Concrete pumps from Putzmeister Holding GmbH are also working at Fukushima, according to the German company’s website. (Putzmeister reportedly has experience from Chernobyl and pumped concrete for the world’s tallest building). Meanwhile, U.S. engineering giant Bechtel is reportedly flying over a remote-controlled robotic water sprayer.

Sany’s participation, spotlighted by the Xinhua news agency Tuesday, is the latest evidence that the quake may be improving China’s famously prickly relations with its neighbor.

In other shows of empathy, Shanghai private equity firm Fosun Group last week pledged to donate 5 million yuan, or roughly $760,000, through the Chinese Red Cross on behalf of 50 nuclear plant relief workers while one of China’s highest profile philanthropists personally traveled to Japan to deliver cash and relief supplies.

For many outside of China, Sany might be best known for the role its founder played in defending the Chinese construction equipment industry as a national treasure in 2006 – and helping reorder how foreign private equity firms operated in China. Sany billionaire Chairman Xiang Wenbo emerged as the pied piper of a nationalistic movement that effectively blocked Washington-based private equity firm Carlyle Group’s bid to pay $375 million for control of Xugong Group Construction Machinery Co. “Selling anything is fine, but selling out the country is wrong!” Mr. Xiang declared in one of his blog postings at the time.

Any visit to Sany’s spotless factory near Changsha’s airport will reveal widespread corporate pride in pumping up the construction industry with equipment like the machine being sent to Japan.

Sany specializes in a construction process akin to weight lifting: Its machines overpower gravity to push dense material high in the sky. With high-reaching tubes, or booms, that are powered by massive pumps, Sany equipment can direct wet concrete upwards during the construction of skyscrapers. Its crawler cranes (made famous in the Chile mine rescue) have also been used in the construction of Chinese nuclear power plants.

The company claims participation in some of the world’s tallest construction projects, and according to Guinness World Records it boasts the longest boom for a truck-mounted concrete pump: 71.535 meters, or just over 234 feet.

If emergencies become a bigger part of Sany’s business, perhaps it should consider putting sirens on its trucks.


\

– James T. Areddy

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/03/22/china-concrete-pumper-gets-into-japannuclear-effort/

Glass
22nd March 2011, 03:33 AM
Very interesting Serpo. A bit of a double up on the article but very informative. So we can expect them to entomb these reactors now. I think you posted a pic somewhere showing one of them was now fully in meltdown. It looked like an update to the one gunDriller posted. That's the way it looked anyway.

SLV^GLD
22nd March 2011, 05:36 AM
That article acts as if a concrete pump truck is something rare and special. What a laugh.

Neuro
22nd March 2011, 06:23 AM
That article acts as if a concrete pump truck is something rare and special. What a laugh.
Yes, and they stated that they would use it to pump water!

Santa
22nd March 2011, 06:36 AM
So we can expect them to entomb these reactors now.

Perhaps this has been their intention all along. To let it melt down into the core catcher
and simply entomb it under a thick cap of concrete. Voila...On site disposal. No more NIMBY or environmental
politics to worry about.

Son-of-Liberty
22nd March 2011, 06:51 AM
If a nuke was used on the fault line offshore to cause the quake and tsunami and during the chaos you sent in some special forces to sabotage a reactor or two. Nobody would notice the sabotage because they would be too distracted trying to stay alive and the radiation from the meltdown would cover the radiation from the nuke used to blow the fault line.

Just a thought, no proof really but it would be genius.

Neuro
22nd March 2011, 07:03 AM
If a nuke was used on the fault line offshore to cause the quake and tsunami and during the chaos you sent in some special forces to sabotage a reactor or two. Nobody would notice the sabotage because they would be too distracted trying to stay alive and the radiation from the meltdown would cover the radiation from the nuke used to blow the fault line.

Just a thought, no proof really but it would be genius.
And the nuclear plants security camera was managed by.... [Drumroll]...





....IZZY!

DMac
22nd March 2011, 07:11 AM
If a nuke was used on the fault line offshore to cause the quake and tsunami and during the chaos you sent in some special forces to sabotage a reactor or two. Nobody would notice the sabotage because they would be too distracted trying to stay alive and the radiation from the meltdown would cover the radiation from the nuke used to blow the fault line.

Just a thought, no proof really but it would be genius.
And the nuclear plants security camera was managed by.... [Drumroll]...





....IZZY!


Never let a good crisis go to waste!


Stuxnet confirmed in Japan (http://gold-silver.us/forum/japan-earthquake-tsunami-and-nuclear-disaster/stuxnet-confirmed-in-japan/)

gunDriller
22nd March 2011, 07:51 AM
there is some merit to the concept of using Lots of Rock to store nuclear waste safely.

e.g., Yucca Mountain.

maybe they can engineer an eruption of Mt. Fuji to rain down lava precisely on top of the fuel storage pools, or whatever it is they're pouring sand on.

in the 22nd century they might actually be able to do that.

maybe Obama-rama will ask ET for help and the US gov. will finally disclose openly what they have been leaking for decades - info about contact experiences.

just kidding - about expecting Obama to give a F*ck.

Awoke
22nd March 2011, 10:40 AM
Well I have to say, as conspiratorially aware that I am, I do not believe that the earthquake was FF, nor do I believe the tsunami was engineered, nor do I believe they wanted this to happen to their nuke plant.

I don't think that TPTB want to unleash devastation on the planet to the point where entire areas are uninhabitable. They want to run a pogrom on humans, but they don't want to destroy the planet.

I think this was a legit, natural earthquake with a legit follow-up tsunami, which wiped out everthing in it's path.

But I have been wrong before. I'm just sharing my opinion on it.

Neuro
22nd March 2011, 11:19 AM
Well I have to say, as conspiratorially aware that I am, I do not believe that the earthquake was FF, nor do I believe the tsunami was engineered, nor do I believe they wanted this to happen to their nuke plant.

I don't think that TPTB want to unleash devastation on the planet to the point where entire areas are uninhabitable. They want to run a pogrom on humans, but they don't want to destroy the planet.

I think this was a legit, natural earthquake with a legit follow-up tsunami, which wiped out everthing in it's path.

But I have been wrong before. I'm just sharing my opinion on it.
Yes I do believe that too. I think it is unlikely w a nuke on a faultline, and the earthquake w the tsunami I think is sufficient for a nuclear breakdown...

Horn
22nd March 2011, 12:25 PM
That article acts as if a concrete pump truck is something rare and special. What a laugh.
Yes, and they stated that they would use it to pump water!


Now that sounds like a conspiracy.

I wonder how long the operator will stay alive doing this? With that glowing white hot dot that gundriller posted, he is going to be engulfed in a cloud of radioactive steam.

Its like the site has become a testing ground.

Cobalt
22nd March 2011, 12:42 PM
That article acts as if a concrete pump truck is something rare and special. What a laugh.
Yes, and they stated that they would use it to pump water!


Now that sounds like a conspiracy.

I wonder how long the operator will stay alive doing this? With that glowing white hot dot that gundriller posted, he is going to be engulfed in a cloud of radioactive steam.

Its like the site has become a testing ground.


I have used many Concrete pump trucks and every one of them use a remote control box, once it is set in place the operator can be at a safe distance all the while being able to move the boom and control the velocity of the pump

Horn
22nd March 2011, 12:55 PM
I have used many Concrete pump trucks and every one of them use a remote control box, once it is set in place the operator can be at a safe distance all the while being able to move the boom and control the velocity of the pump


I've worked with them too, have you ever seen one become engulfed in a cloud of radioactive steam?

My question is why not pump concrete thru concrete pump?

DMac
22nd March 2011, 12:59 PM
Fukushima Update: Reactor 1 Core Now At 380 Degrees Celsius, 80 More Than Normal Running Temperature (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fukushima-update-reactor-1-core-now-380-celsius-80-more-normal-running-temporature)

snip

The latest news from Japan is not the radiation has now been found in various leaf vegetables in Fukushima, including cabbage and parsley: after all that was to be expected following the radioactive rain of the past few days. The news this time comes straight from TEPCO which finally admits that the temperature of Reactor 1 is 380-390 Celsius (715-735 Fahrenheit), which apparently is a "worry" as the reactor was meant to run at a temperature of 302 C (575 F). That is when the reactor is fully operational, not when it is supposed to be in a cold shut down mode.

Serpo
22nd March 2011, 01:23 PM
The newest landmark in the tsunami-stricken city of Kesennuma is a massive fishing trawler that was swept up at sea and came to rest on one of the main roads to City Hall.

The No. 18 Kyotoku-maru ship, with a red and blue hull and a "safety first" slogan painted just above its bridge, looms over a landscape of homes and business splintered by the March 11 tsunami and then set ablaze in an ensuing fire.

"It really catches the eye," said Ayaka Hatakeyama, who used to run a butcher shop a few metres from where the ship came to rest in the centre of this northeastern port city.

The ship stands out in an already surreal landscape of convenience stores smashed by houses and cars perched precariously on crumbling concrete walls.

Locals share stories about the ship whose crew was forced to stay on board as the city beneath them blazed through the night.

"We heard the ship was full of fuel and worried that it was going to explode," Hatakeyama said as she took a break from salvaging goods from her store.

The central business district of the city of 73,000 was ravaged by the tsunami that filled streets with water two-floors high and parked smaller ships haphazardly in other locations.

But the Kyotoku-maru will likely stay where it now sits as a ghost ship for some time to come, with officials expecting it to take months just to remove the debris caused by the tsunami.

"I have no idea how they are going to get that thing out of here," one fire-fighter said.

beefsteak
22nd March 2011, 03:34 PM
I have used many Concrete pump trucks and every one of them use a remote control box, once it is set in place the operator can be at a safe distance all the while being able to move the boom and control the velocity of the pump


I've worked with them too, have you ever seen one become engulfed in a cloud of radioactive steam?

My question is why not pump concrete thru concrete pump?


Practicing with H2O to get aim and placement correct perhaps? I read over the weekend where TEPCO is "training workers to entomb with concrete." Can ill afford to have them "miss," yes?

Any of the geniuses on here knowledgeable about the initial combining of calcium carbonate and radioactive water in the small amounts that come shooting up those concrete pumping tubes?

beefsteak
22nd March 2011, 03:37 PM
Well I have to say, as conspiratorially aware that I am, I do not believe that the earthquake was FF, nor do I believe the tsunami was engineered, nor do I believe they wanted this to happen to their nuke plant.

I don't think that TPTB want to unleash devastation on the planet to the point where entire areas are uninhabitable. They want to run a pogrom on humans, but they don't want to destroy the planet.

I think this was a legit, natural earthquake with a legit follow-up tsunami, which wiped out everthing in it's path.

But I have been wrong before. I'm just sharing my opinion on it.


Have you read the theory online that the STUXNET worm took a left-hand turn after taking down Brasheres in Iran? Wonder how Mossad looks with global egg on their faces?

Interesting read...for the first few paragraphs anyhow...then the rant turned tedious and I suddenly found something more pleasant to go surf on.

Serpo
22nd March 2011, 03:48 PM
Well I have to say, as conspiratorially aware that I am, I do not believe that the earthquake was FF, nor do I believe the tsunami was engineered, nor do I believe they wanted this to happen to their nuke plant.

I don't think that TPTB want to unleash devastation on the planet to the point where entire areas are uninhabitable. They want to run a pogrom on humans, but they don't want to destroy the planet.

I think this was a legit, natural earthquake with a legit follow-up tsunami, which wiped out everthing in it's path.

But I have been wrong before. I'm just sharing my opinion on it.


Have you read the theory online that the STUXNET worm took a left-hand turn after taking down Brasheres in Iran? Wonder how Mossad looks with global egg on their faces?

Interesting read...for the first few paragraphs anyhow...then the rant turned tedious and I suddenly found something more pleasant to go surf on.


Collateral damage..........


"Stuxnet Computer Worm" that was known to be
loose in Japan and does attack specific computer
controls that are used in the nuclear power plant,
in Japan.

Followed by an article concerning the known deployment
of such a cyber weapon from the Washington POst
The article is pasted in after the second large red line
Titled:
CIA slipped bugs to Soviets
Memoir recounts Cold War technological sabotage
By David E. Hoffman
The Washington Post Feb. 27, 2004


Comment from the WRH website that just
posted the Japanese article

Here is a nightmare scenario for you.



1. Israel and the US create Stuxnet .

2. Stuxnet is deployed to wreck Iran's nuclear power station .

3. But Stuxnet escapes from its intended target and spreads
across Asia!

4. As the above article documents, Stuxnet was in Japan
last October, presumably still spreading and intended to
wreck nuclear power plants.

5. Stuxnet targets the Siemens controller

6. Fukushima uses the Seimens controllers Stuxnet was
designed to interfere with!


So now the difficulty the Fukushima nuclear plant operators
faced in recovering control over their runaway reactors takes
on a darker significance. Remember that the first problem
following the quake was that the automated shutdown systems
failed to operate at some of the reactors, because pumps failed
and valves would not open even while running on batteries; the
very sorts of mischief Stuxnet supposedly was designed to cause
at Iran's power station.



New cybervirus found in Japan / Stuxnet
designed to attack off-line servers via USB memory sticks
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T101004003493.htm
Copy / paste of posting there :>

The Yomiuri Shimbun


Stuxnet, a computer virus designed to attack servers isolated
from the Internet, such as at power plants, has been confirmed
on 63 personal computers in Japan since July, according to
major security firm Symantec Corp.


The virus does not cause any damage online, but once it
enters an industrial system, it can send a certain program
out of control.


Symantec says the virus reaches the servers via USB memory
sticks, and warns against the careless use of such devices.


Systems at power plants, gas stations and water facilities are
not connected to the Internet to protect them from cyber-attacks.


A Symantec engineer who has analyzed the virus said it was
made using advanced technology, and it is highly likely a well-
funded organization, not an individual, produced it. The virus
has spread throughout the globe via the Internet.


After Stuxnet finds its way onto an ordinary computer via the
Internet, it hides there, waiting for a USB memory stick to be
connected to the computer, when it transfers itself to the memory
stick. When the USB device is then connected to a computer l
inked to an isolated server, it can enter the system and take
control of it.


As computers that harbor Stuxnet do not operate strangely,
the virus can be transferred to a memory stick inadvertently.


According to the security company, the virus is designed to
target a German-made program often used in systems managing
water, gas and oil pipelines. The program is used at public utilities
around the world, including in Japan.


The virus could cause such systems to act erratically, and it
could take months to restore them to normal.


The 63 infected computers found in Japan were likely infected
sometime after June.


http://toxicreverend.blogspot.com/2011/03/cyber-worms-in-nukes-and-military.html

gunDriller
22nd March 2011, 04:36 PM
So now the difficulty the Fukushima nuclear plant operators
faced in recovering control over their runaway reactors takes
on a darker significance. Remember that the first problem
following the quake was that the automated shutdown systems
failed to operate at some of the reactors, because pumps failed
and valves would not open even while running on batteries; the
very sorts of mischief Stuxnet supposedly was designed to cause
at Iran's power station.


hmmm ... this is a question to put to the geotech guys & gals at TheOilDrum.

might this piss of the Yakuza ?

oh, to see the Yakuza get pissed off and go after the Mossad ! Now there's a gang fight where i know who to root for !

Serpo
22nd March 2011, 04:52 PM
[
oh, to see the Yakuza get pissed off and go after the Mossad ! Now there's a gang fight where i know who to root for !


Yes the ones without all their finger bits.....

Serpo
22nd March 2011, 04:54 PM
thorium

China is leading the way with thorium
A few weeks before the tsunami struck Fukushima’s uranium reactors and shattered public faith in nuclear power, China revealed that it was launching a rival technology to build a safer, cleaner, and ultimately cheaper network of reactors based on thorium.

This passed unnoticed –except by a small of band of thorium enthusiasts – but it may mark the passage of strategic leadership in energy policy from an inert and status-quo West to a rising technological power willing to break the mould.

If China’s dash for thorium power succeeds, it will vastly alter the global energy landscape and may avert a calamitous conflict over resources as Asia’s industrial revolutions clash head-on with the West’s entrenched consumption.

China’s Academy of Sciences said it had chosen a “thorium-based molten salt reactor system”. The liquid fuel idea was pioneered by US physicists at Oak Ridge National Lab in the 1960s, but the US has long since dropped the ball. Further evidence of Barack `Obama’s “Sputnik moment”, you could say.

Chinese scientists claim that hazardous waste will be a thousand times less than with uranium. The system is inherently less prone to disaster.

“The reactor has an amazing safety feature,” said Kirk Sorensen, a former NASA engineer at Teledyne Brown and a thorium expert.
Related Articles

*



“If it begins to overheat, a little plug melts and the salts drain into a pan. There is no need for computers, or the sort of electrical pumps that were crippled by the tsunami. The reactor saves itself,” he said.

“They operate at atmospheric pressure so you don’t have the sort of hydrogen explosions we’ve seen in Japan. One of these reactors would have come through the tsunami just fine. There would have been no radiation release.”

Thorium is a silvery metal named after the Norse god of thunder. The metal has its own “issues” but no thorium reactor could easily spin out of control in the manner of Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, or now Fukushima.

Professor Robert Cywinksi from Huddersfield University said thorium must be bombarded with neutrons to drive the fission process. “There is no chain reaction. Fission dies the moment you switch off the photon beam. There are not enough neutrons for it continue of its own accord,” he said.

Dr Cywinski, who anchors a UK-wide thorium team, said the residual heat left behind in a crisis would be “orders of magnitude less” than in a uranium reactor.

The earth’s crust holds 80 years of uranium at expected usage rates, he said. Thorium is as common as lead. America has buried tons as a by-product of rare earth metals mining. Norway has so much that Oslo is planning a post-oil era where thorium might drive the country’s next great phase of wealth. Even Britain has seams in Wales and in the granite cliffs of Cornwall. Almost all the mineral is usable as fuel, compared to 0.7pc of uranium. There is enough to power civilization for thousands of years.

I write before knowing the outcome of the Fukushima drama, but as yet none of 15,000 deaths are linked to nuclear failure. Indeed, there has never been a verified death from nuclear power in the West in half a century. Perspective is in order.

We cannot avoid the fact that two to three billion extra people now expect – and will obtain – a western lifestyle. China alone plans to produce 100m cars and buses every year by 2020.

The International Atomic Energy Agency said the world currently has 442 nuclear reactors. They generate 372 gigawatts of power, providing 14pc of global electricity. Nuclear output must double over twenty years just to keep pace with the rise of the China and India.

If a string of countries cancel or cut back future reactors, let alone follow Germany’s Angela Merkel in shutting some down, they shift the strain onto gas, oil, and coal. Since the West is also cutting solar subsidies, they can hardly expect the solar industry to plug the gap.

BP’s disaster at Macondo should teach us not to expect too much from oil reserves deep below the oceans, beneath layers of blinding salt. Meanwhile, we rely uneasily on Wahabi repression to crush dissent in the Gulf and keep Arabian crude flowing our way. So where can we turn, unless we revert to coal and give up on the ice caps altogether? That would be courting fate.

US physicists in the late 1940s explored thorium fuel for power. It has a higher neutron yield than uranium, a better fission rating, longer fuel cycles, and does not require the extra cost of isotope separation.

The plans were shelved because thorium does not produce plutonium for bombs. As a happy bonus, it can burn up plutonium and toxic waste from old reactors, reducing radio-toxicity and acting as an eco-cleaner.

Dr Cywinski is developing an accelerator driven sub-critical reactor for thorium, a cutting-edge project worldwide. It needs to £300m of public money for the next phase, and £1.5bn of commercial investment to produce the first working plant. Thereafter, economies of scale kick in fast. The idea is to make pint-size 600MW reactors.

Yet any hope of state support seems to have died with the Coalition budget cuts, and with it hopes that Britain could take a lead in the energy revolution. It is understandable, of course. Funds are scarce. The UK has already put its efforts into the next generation of uranium reactors. Yet critics say vested interests with sunk costs in uranium technology succeeded in chilling enthusiasm.

The same happened a decade ago to a parallel project by Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia at CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research). France’s nuclear industry killed proposals for funding from Brussels, though a French group is now working on thorium in Grenoble.

Norway’s Aker Solution has bought Professor Rubbia’s patent. It had hoped to build the first sub-critical reactor in the UK, but seems to be giving up on Britain and locking up a deal to build it in China instead, where minds and wallets are more open.

So the Chinese will soon lead on this thorium technology as well as molten-salts. Good luck to them. They are doing Mankind a favour. We may get through the century without tearing each other apart over scarce energy and wrecking the planet.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8393984/Safe-nuclear-does-exist-and-China-is-leading-the-way-with-thorium.html

Large Sarge
22nd March 2011, 05:13 PM
http://www.ccnr.org/bertell_book.html



The Hazards of Low Level Radiation
In the past few years the information available on the health effects of exposure to low levels of radiation has increased. We are no longer dependent on the commercial or military nuclear researchers who since 1950 have claimed that studies of the effects of low-level radiation are impossible to undertake. The new information is unsettling because it proves the critics of the industry to have been correct as to its serious potential to damage living tissue.

There have also been significant new releases of findings from the atomic bomb research in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the self-acclaimed "classical research" of radiation health effects. I will list these findings toward the end of this article, along with studies from the nuclear industry.

In reviewing these research papers one is struck by the high-dose response when the radiation is delivered slowly, with low total dose. The conventional wisdom has claimed that at low dose/slow-dose rate the body is well able to repair most of the harm caused by the radiation. Some nuclear apologists go so far as to claim such exposures are "beneficial."

Because the nuclear industry has always maintained that the effects of low-dose radiation exposure are so small that it is impossible to study them, they proposed extrapolating the effects from those observed at high dose, using a straight line to zero (zero dose, zero effect), together with "correction factors" for low dose/slow-dose rate.

The effect of this "correction" is to reduce the fatal cancer estimates calculated by D.L. Preston, then Director of the Radiation Effects Research Foundation at Hiroshima, using the new dosimetry, from seventeen fatalities per million people per rad exposure, to five fatalities per million people per rad exposure. The corresponding estimates based on actually observed rates for nuclear workers is between ten and thirty fatalities per million per rad. Obviously, for the adult healthy male, the dose-response estimate should be about twenty for fatal cancers per million per rad.

However, although we can make a strong case for increasing the "official" estimates of harm by a factor of four, this fails to deal with non-fatal cancers, depressed immune systems, localized tissue damage (especially the respiratory, digestive and urinary tracts), damage to skin, and reproductive problems. Radiation can cause brain lesions, damage to the stem cells which produce the blood and, when the radiactive material is carried in a heavy metal (uranium) it can be stored in bone, irradiating body organs and nerves within its radius.



A Book by Dr. E.B. Burlakova
Detailed studies of dose-response at the low dose/slow-dose rate level:

Dr. E. B. Burlakova has provided me with a copy of the book, of which she is editor: Consequences of the Chernobyl Catastrophe: Human Health. In one Chapter of this book, Dr. Burlakova and fourteen other scientists publish their findings on animal and human studies of the health effects of low dose/slow- dose rate, exposure to ionizing radiation. They examined carefully the following biological phenomena under ionizing radiation exposure situations:


alkaline elution of DNA of lymphocytes and liver

neutral elution and adsorption of spleen DNA on nitrocellulose filters

restriction of spleen DNA by EcoRI endonuclease

structural characteristics (using the ESR spin probe technique) of nuclear, mitochondrial, synaptical, erythrocyte and leukocyte membranes

activity and isoforms of aldolase and lactate hydrogenase enzymes

activity of acetycholine esterase, superoxide dismutase, and glutathione peroxidase

the rate of formation of superoxide anion radicals

the composition and antioxidizing activity of lipids of the above mentioned membranes

the sensitivity of cells, membranes, DNA, and organisms to the action of additional damaging factors.
"For all of the parameters a bimodal dose-effect dependence was discovered, i.e. the effect increased at low doses, reached its [low-dose] maximum, and then decreased (in some cases, the sign of the effect changed to the opposite, or "benefit" effect) and increased again as the dose was increased" (Burlakova, page 118). Dr. Burlakova has speculated that at the lowest experimental doses used in this research, the repair mechanism of the cells was not triggered. It became activated at the point of the low- dose maximum, providing a "benefit" until it was overwhelmed and the damage began again to increase with dose. This may well be the case.

However, the unexpected effects of low dose/slow-dose rate exposure to ionizing radiation can also be attributed to biological mechanisms, other than the direct DNA damage hypothesis usually used by radiation physicists. These secondary mechanisms are specific to the low-/slow-dose conditions. Three such secondary mechanism have been observed by scientists: the Petkau effect, monocyte depletion, and deformed red blood cells.


The Petkau effect: discovered by Abram Petkau at the Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd. Whiteshell Nuclear Research Establishment, Manitoba, Canada in 1972 (Ref.1). Dr. Petkau discovered that at 26 rads per minute (fast-dose rate) it required a total dose of 3,500 rads to destroy a cell membrane. However, at 0.001 rad per minute (slow dose rate), it required only 0.7 rad to destroy the cell membrane. The mechanism at the slow-dose rate is the production of free radicals of oxygen (O2 with a negative electrical charge) by the ionizing effect of the radiation.
The sparsely distributed free radicals generated at the slow-dose rate have a better probability of reaching and reacting with the cell wall than do the densely crowded free radicals produced by fast-dose rates. These latter recombine quickly. Moreover, the slight electrical charge of the cell membrane attracts the free radicals in the early stages of the reaction (low total dose). Computer calculations have shown that the attraction weakens with greater concentrations of free radicals. The traditional radiation biologist has tested only high-dose reactions, and looked for direct damage to the membrane by the radiation.


Monocyte depletion: Nuclear fission produces radionuclides which tend to be stored by humans and animals in the bone tissue. In particular, strontium-90, plutonium and the transuranics have this property. Stored in bone, near the stem cells which produce the white blood cells, these radionuclides deliver a chronic low/slow dose of radiation which can interfere with normal blood- cell production. A few less neutrophils or lymphocytes (the white blood cells which are most numerous, and are usually "counted" by the radiophysicist) are not noticeable. In the normal adult, there are about 7,780 white cells per microlitre of blood. Of these, about 4,300 are neutrophils and 2,710 are lymphocytes. Only 500 are monocytes.
If, for example, stem cells in the bone marrow are destroyed so as to reduce total white blood count by 400 cells per microlitre due to the slow irradiation by radionuclides stored in the bone, this would represent a depletion of only five percent in total white cells, an insignificant amount. If all of the depletion was of neutrophils, this would mean a reduction of only 9.3 percent, still leaving the blood count well in the normal range. The lymphocytes would also be still in the normal range, even though they were depleted by 400 cells per microlitre, or 14.8 percent. However, there would be a dramatic depletion of the monocytes by 80 percent. Therefore, at low doses of radiation, it is more important to observe the monocytes, than to wait for an effect on the lymphocytes or neutrophils (as is now usually done). The effects of serious reduction in monocytes are:


Iron deficient anemia, since it is the monocytes which recycle about 37-40 percent of the iron in the red blood cells when they die;

Depressed cellular immune system, since the monocyte secretes the substance which activates the lymphocyte immune system. [2]

Deformed red-blood cells: Dr. Les Simpson, of New Zealand, has identified deformed red-blood cells, as observed under an electron microscope, as causing symptoms ranging from severe fatigue to brain dysfunction leading to short-term memory loss. He has identified such cells in elevated number in chronic fatigue patients, and speculated that because of their bloated or swollen shape, they are obstructed from easily passing into the tiny capillaries, thus depriving muscles and the brain of adequate oxygen and nutrients. The chronic fatigue syndrome has been observed both at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, called bura bura disease, and at Chernobyl. [3]
In the official approach to radiobiology, only direct damage to DNA has been recognized as "of concern," and only high dose/fast-dose rate experiments or observations have been accepted for use in estimating the dose-response rate. As was noted, it is the "common wisdom" that effects of low doses/slow- dose rates cannot be studied, but must be extrapolated from the officially accepted high dose/fast-dose rate studies. This approach is rejected by the work of Dr. Burlakova, and the other research noted below.

Basing one's theory on claims that is impossible to study the phenomenon is certainly a peculiar way to do science! This myth has now been clearly shown to have been rash and criminally negligent.

Unfortunately, the Desert Storm veterans were victims of one of the latest military experiments on human beings. The people of Iraq and Kuwait were also the victims of this misguided experiment. I believe that the ignorance was culpable and criminal.



Recent Reports on Low-Level Radiation
I would like to bring your attention to the following significant new reports on the effects of low-level radiation:


Health Consequences of the Chernobyl Accident, Results of the IPHECA Pilot Projects and Related National Programs, Scientific Report, World Health Organization, Geneva 1996.

Consequences of the Chernobyl Catastrophe: Human Health, E.B. Burlakova, ed. Co-published by the Center for Russian Environmental Policy and the Scientific Council on Radiobiology Russian Academy of Science, ISBN 5-88587-019-5, Moscow 1996.

Volume 137, Supplement, Radiation Research 1994, which published for the first time the dose-response data on cancer incidence rate observed in the atomic bomb survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Prior to this publication, only cancer death data was reported.

Biological Effects of Ionizing Radiation V (BEIR V), U.S. National Academy of Sciences, Washington 1990. This provides new radiation risk estimates based on the newly assigned doses of radiation in this atomic bomb survivor study.
Also available now are the long term follow-up of workers in the nuclear industry. This industry has now been operating more than fifty years in the United States and about fifty years in the United Kingdom. These include:


"Inconsistencies and Open Questions Regarding Low-Dose Health Effects of Ionizing Radiation", by R. Nussbaum and W. Kohnlein. Environmental Health Perspectives, Vol. 102, No. 8, August 1994.

RERF Technical Report TR9-87, by D.L. Preston and D.A. Pierce, Hiroshima 1987.

"The Effects of Changes in Dosimetry on Cancer Mortality Risk Estimates in Atomic Bomb Survivors" Radiation Research, Vol. 114, 1988.

"Mortality and Occupational Exposure to Irradiation: First Analysis of the National Registry for Radiation Workers" by G.M. Kendall. British Medical Journal, Vol. 304, 1992.

"Mortality Among Workers at Oak Ridge National Laboratory" by S. Wing. Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 265, 1991.

"Reanalysis of the Hanford Data, 1944-1986 Deaths" by G.W. Kneale and A. Stewart. American Journal of Industrial Medicine, Volume 23, 1993.


References:

The Petkau Effect, Revised Edition, 1990, by Ralph Graeub, Translated from German by Phil Hill, and Published by Four Walls Eight Windows, New York, 1994. ISBN: 1-56858-019-3.

Bertell, R. "Internal Bone Seeking Radionuclides and Monocyte Counts", International Perspectives in Public Health, Vol. 9, pp 21-26, 1993

Les Simpson has published several papers in the New Zealand Medical Journal, and wrote a Chapter in the Medical Textbook on Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (MI), edited by Dr. Byron Hyde.

beefsteak
22nd March 2011, 05:50 PM
Thanks, Large Sarge.

Interesting that low/slo has such rapid deleterious effects on the cellular level acc'd to the scientists quoted in your paper presented above. That seems counter-intuitive to me. You?

beefsteak

Horn
22nd March 2011, 06:21 PM
Practicing with H2O to get aim and placement correct perhaps?

Pouring water on a nuclear reaction, isn't that equivalent to sticking your finger in a light socket?

gunDriller
22nd March 2011, 06:43 PM
[
oh, to see the Yakuza get pissed off and go after the Mossad ! Now there's a gang fight where i know who to root for !


Yes the ones without all their finger bits.....


http://www.tattooarchive.com/history/yakuza.htm

"A 1999 news article in the San Francisco Chronicle spoke about Dr. Alan Roberts, an English doctor, who developed a prosthetic finger that had become very popular with Japanese who were trying to hide their connection with the Yakuza. At first, Dr. Roberts thought he'd be dealing with accident victims but said, "I knew about the Yakuza and their code of honor from watching movies, but I had no idea my work would be so popular with bandits. It's very big business."

forget silver. invest in finger tips !

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01390/yakuza_1390764c.jpg

did this guy f*ck up once or twice ? can't tell how many joints are missing. 1 1/2 ?

http://www.boingboing.net/FingerMissingManCrop.jpg

looks like this guy made a few more mistakes. or maybe he just enjoys his new hobby ?

http://oi55.tinypic.com/e0g5kw.jpg

YakuzaGirl.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0cfj9qe7HRbZX/610x.jpg

some would call this a "work in progress".


we now return to our regularly scheduled programming. ;D

beefsteak
22nd March 2011, 07:10 PM
This latest perspective on the rhetorical question posed in the thread headers:

Hopefully, less impact on Western USA than the cleaners/liquidators of Chernobyl experienced, and at least 1 lived to tell.

------------------------------------------------------
Chernobyl Cleanup Survivor's Message for Japan: 'Run Away as Quickly as Possible'
Mar 22, 2011 – 1:23 PM


Dana Kennedy Contributor

Natalia Manzurova, one of the few survivors among those directly involved in the long cleanup of Chernobyl, was a 35-year-old engineer at a nuclear plant in Ozersk, Russia, in April 1986 when she and 13 other scientists were told to report to the wrecked, burning plant in the northern Ukraine.

It was just four days after the world's biggest nuclear disaster spewed enormous amounts of radiation into the atmosphere and forced the evacuation of 100,000 people.

Manzurova and her colleagues were among the roughly 800,000 "cleaners" or "liquidators" in charge of the removal and burial of all the contamination in what's still called the dead zone.

Natalia Manzurova, shown here in 1988 in the "dead zone" of the Pripyat, is one of the relatively few survivors among those directly involved in the cleanup of Chernobyl.

She spent 4 1/2 years helping clean the abandoned town of Pripyat, which was less than two miles from the Chernobyl reactors. The plant workers lived there before they were abruptly evacuated.

Manzurova, now 59 and an advocate for radiation victims worldwide, has the "Chernobyl necklace" -- a scar on her throat from the removal of her thyroid -- and myriad health problems. But unlike the rest of her team members, who she said have all died from the results of radiation poisoning, and many other liquidators, she's alive.

AOL News spoke with Manzurova about the nuclear disaster in Japan with the help of a translator on the telephone Monday (3-21-2011) from Vermont. Manzurova, who still lives in Ozersk, was beginning a one-week informational tour of the U.S. organized by the Beyond Nuclear watchdog group.



AOL News: What was your first reaction when you heard about Fukushima?
Manzurova: It felt like déjà vu. I felt so worried for the people of Japan and the children especially. I know the experience that awaits them.



But experts say Fukushima is not as bad as Chernobyl.
Every nuclear accident is different, and the impact cannot be truly measured for years. The government does not always tell the truth. Many will never return to their homes. Their lives will be divided into two parts: before and after Fukushima. They'll worry about their health and their children's health. The government will probably say there was not that much radiation and that it didn't harm them. And the government will probably not compensate them for all that they've lost. What they lost can't be calculated.



What message do you have for Japan?
Run away as quickly as possible. Don't wait. Save yourself and don't rely on the government because the government lies. They don't want you to know the truth because the nuclear industry is so powerful.




When you were called to go to Chernobyl, did you know how bad it was there?
I had no idea and never knew the true scope until much later. It was all covered in secrecy. I went there as a professional because I was told to -- but if I was asked to liquidate such an accident today, I'd never agree. The sacrifices the Fukushima workers are making are too high because the nuclear industry was developed in such a way that the executives don't hold themselves accountable to the human beings who have to clean up a disaster. It's like nuclear slavery.



What was your first impression of Chernobyl?
It was like a war zone where a neutron bomb had gone off. I always felt I was in the middle of a war where the enemy was invisible. All the houses and buildings were intact with all the furniture, but there wasn't a single person left. Just deep silence everywhere. Sometimes I felt I was the only person alive on a strange planet. There are really no words to describe it.



What did your work as a liquidator entail?
First, we measured radiation levels and got vegetation samples to see how high the contamination was. Then bulldozers dug holes in the ground and we buried everything -- houses, animals, everything. There were some wild animals that were still alive, and we had to kill them and put them in the holes.



Were any pets left in the houses?
The people had only a few hours to leave, and they weren't allowed to take their dogs or cats with them. The radiation stays in animals' fur and they can't be cleaned, so they had to be abandoned. That's why people were crying when they left. All the animals left behind in the houses were like dried-out mummies. But we found one dog that was still alive.



Where did you find the dog and how did he survive?
We moved into a former kindergarten to use as a laboratory and we found her lying in one of the children's cots there. Her legs were all burned from the radiation and she was half blind. Her eyes were all clouded from the radiation. She was slowly dying.



Were you able to rescue her?
No. Right after we moved in, she disappeared. And this is the amazing part. A month later we found her in the children's ward of the (abandoned) hospital. She was dead. She was lying in a child's bed, the same size bed we found her in the kindergarten. Later we found out that she loved children very much and was always around them.



How did working in the dead zone begin to affect your health?
I started to feel as if I had the flu. I would get a high temperature and start to shiver. What happens during first contact with radiation is that your good flora is depleted and the bad flora starts to flourish. I suddenly wanted to sleep all the time and eat a lot. It was the organism getting all the energy out.



How much radiation were you subjected to?
We were never told. We wore dosimeters which measured radiation and we submitted them to the bosses, but they never gave us the results.



But didn't you realize the danger and want to leave?
Yes, I knew the danger. All sorts of things happened. One colleague stepped into a rainwater pool and the soles of his feet burned off inside his boots. But I felt it was my duty to stay. I was like a firefighter. Imagine if your house was burning and the firemen came and then left because they thought it was too dangerous.



When did you discover the thyroid tumor?
They found it during a routine medical inspection after I had worked there several years. It turned out to be benign. I don't know when it started to develop. I had an operation to remove half the thyroid gland. The tumor grew back, and last year I had the other half removed. I live on (thyroid) hormones now.




Why did you go back to Chernobyl after getting a thyroid tumor?
Right around the time of my operation, the government passed a law saying the liquidators had to work for exactly 4 1/2 years to get our pension and retire. If you left even one day early, you would not get any benefits.



Really? That seems beyond cruel.
It's why the nuclear industry is dangerous. They want to deny the dangers. They kept changing the law about what benefits we'd get because if they admitted how much we were affected, it would look bad for the industry. Now we hardly get any benefits.



Did your health worsen after you finally finished work at Chernobyl?
I was basically disabled at 43. I was having fits similar to epileptic fits. My blood pressure was sky high. It was hard to work for more than six months a year. The doctors didn't know what to do with me. They wanted to put me in a psychiatric ward and call me crazy. Finally they admitted it was because of the radiation.



----------------------------Ms M's photos--then & now------------------
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/22/chernobyl-cleanup-survivors-message-for-japan-run-away-as-qui/?icid=maing|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk3|51283

JohnQPublic
22nd March 2011, 09:35 PM
Entombment of the Daichi reactors (by a Zerohedge reader):


http://everist.org/pics/Fukushima/Fukushima_pyramids_sm.jpg

BrewTech
22nd March 2011, 09:41 PM
I have used many Concrete pump trucks and every one of them use a remote control box, once it is set in place the operator can be at a safe distance all the while being able to move the boom and control the velocity of the pump


I've worked with them too, have you ever seen one become engulfed in a cloud of radioactive steam?

My question is why not pump concrete thru concrete pump?


My question is... why waste perfectly good concrete by pouring it on a failed nuke reactor, when you could just airdrop a planeload of bankers and politicians on it to entomb the deadly structure? Hell, SEVERAL planeloads! I'm sure it would take many missions to complete the task. The more the merrier!

beefsteak
22nd March 2011, 10:22 PM
John Q,
are you long Ashgrove Cement perchance? (ASHG.PK)...it's move from $161 to $178 just since the 3/11, now $175-ish

Bet it goes higher.

Fascinating graphic...I just came back from Zero, and didn't spot that one. Is it in one of the "comments" sections?

Serpo
22nd March 2011, 11:06 PM
This information dosnt help.

It was only a matter of time before someone grew a conscience, and disclosed to the world that in addition to the massive cover up currently going on with respect to the true extent of the Fukushima catastrophe, the actual plant itself, in borrowing from the BP playbook, was built in a hurried way, using cost and labor-cutting shortcuts, and the end result was a true "time bomb." Bloomberg has just released a report that if and when confirmed should lead to the prompt engagement of harakiri by the Hitachi executives responsible for this unprecedented act of treason against Japan's citizens. Quote Bloomberg: "One of the reactors in the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant may have been relying on flawed steel to hold the radiation in its core, according to an engineer who helped build its containment vessel four decades ago. Mitsuhiko Tanaka says he helped conceal a manufacturing defect in the $250 million steel vessel installed at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi No. 4 reactor while working for a unit of Hitachi Ltd. in 1974. The reactor, which Tanaka has called a “time bomb,” was shut for maintenance when the March 11 earthquake triggered a 7-meter (23-foot) tsunami that disabled cooling systems at the plant, leading to explosions and radiation leaks....“Who knows what would have happened if that reactor had been running?” Tanaka, who turned his back on the nuclear industry after the Chernobyl disaster, said in an interview last week. “I have no idea if it could withstand an earthquake like this. It’s got a faulty reactor inside.” What follows is the harrowing tale of a criminal cover up at the only reactor that luckily was empty when the catastrophe occurred. We can only imagine what comparable horror stories will emerge in the next several days as other whistleblowers emerge and disclose that Reactors 1 through 3 (which unfortunately do have radioactive fuel in their reactors) passed the same "rigorous" quality control process that makes them the same time bombs just waiting or the signal to go off (and probably already have... but since the truth is the last thing the public will uncover one can only speculate).

More on this sad story of criminal corruption and incompetence from the bottom all the way to the top, from Bloomberg:

Tanaka’s allegations, which he says he brought to the attention of Japan’s Trade Ministry in 1988 and chronicled in a book two years later called “Why Nuclear Power is Dangerous,” have resurfaced after Japan’s worst nuclear accident on record. The No. 4 reactor was hit by explosions and a fire that spread from adjacent units as the crisis deepened.

Hitachi spokesman Yuichi Izumisawa said the company met with Tanaka in 1988 to discuss the work he did to fix a dent in the vessel and concluded there was no safety problem. “We have not revised our view since then,” Izumisawa said.

Kenta Takahashi, an official at the Trade Ministry’s Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, said he couldn’t confirm whether the agency’s predecessor, the Agency for Natural Resources and Energy, had conducted an investigation into Tanaka’s claims. Naoki Tsunoda, a spokesman at Tokyo Electric Power Co., which owns the plant, said he couldn’t immediately comment.

Tanaka, who said he led the team that built the steel vessel, was at his apartment on Tokyo’s outskirts when Japan’s biggest earthquake on record struck off the coast on March 11, shaking buildings in the nation’s capital.

“I grabbed my wife and we just hugged,” he said. “I thought this is it: we’re dead.”

For Tanaka, the nightmare intensified the next day when a series of explosions were triggered next to the reactor that he helped build. Since then, the risks of radioactive leaks increased as workers have struggled to bring the plant under control.

Here is why one should not trust anything coming out of the authorities out of TEPCO and out of all other pundits who now rely on what is certifiably faulty information:

Tanaka says the reactor pressure vessel inside Fukushima’s unit No. 4 was damaged at a Babcock-Hitachi foundry in Kure City, in Hiroshima prefecture, during the last step of a manufacturing process that took 2 1/2 years and cost tens of millions of dollars. If the mistake had been discovered, the company might have been bankrupted, he said.

Inside a blast furnace the size of a small airplane hanger the reactor pressure vessel was being treated one last time to remove welding stress. The cylinder, 20 meters tall and 6 meters in diameter, was heated to more than 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit), a temperature that softens metal.

Braces that were supposed to have been placed inside during the blasting were either forgotten or fell over when the cylinder was wheeled into the furnace. After the vessel cooled, workers found that its walls had warped, Tanaka said.

The vessel had sagged so that its height and width differed by more than 34 millimeters, meaning it should have been scrapped, according to nuclear regulations. Rather than sacrifice years of work and risk the company’s survival, Tanaka’s boss asked him to reshape the vessel so that no-one would know it had ever been damaged. Tanaka had been working as an engineer for the company’s nuclear reactor division and was known for his programming skills.

Saving Hitachi billions by putting millions at risk:

“I saved the company billions of yen,” said Tanaka, who says he was paid a 3 million yen bonus and presented with a certificate acknowledging his “extraordinary” effort. “At the time, I felt like a hero,” he said.

Over the course of a month, Tanaka said he made a dozen nighttime trips to an International Business Machines Corp. office 20 kilometers away in Hiroshima where he used a super- computer to devise a repair.

Covering up the lies with a sheet, and bribing with golf and hot springs:

Meanwhile, workers covered the damaged vessel with a sheet, Tanaka said. When Tokyo Electric sent a representative to check on their progress, Hitachi distracted him by wining and dining him, according to Tanaka. Rather than inspecting the part, they spent the day playing golf and soaking in a hot spring, he said.

The guy wouldn’t have known what he was looking at anyway,” Tanaka said. “The people at the utility have no idea how the parts are made.”

After a month of computer modeling, Tanaka came up with a way to use pumpjacks to pop out the sunken wall. While it would look like nothing had ever happened, no-one knew what the effect of the repair would have on the integrity of the vessel. Thirty- six years later, that reactor pressure vessel is the key defense protecting the core of Fukushima’s No. 4 reactor.

“These procedures, as they’re described, are far from ideal, especially for a component as critical as this,” Robert Ritchie, Professor of Materials Science & Engineering at the University of California of Berkeley, said in a phone interview. “Depending on the extent of vessel’s deformation, it could possibly lead to local cracking in some its welds.”

"The father of the Japanese Chernobyl":

After the meltdown at Chernobyl in 1986, Tanaka was asked to narrate a Russian movie documenting the disaster. A team of Soviet filmmakers had taken 30 hours of footage inside the plant, getting very close to the ruptured core. The movie’s director died of radiation poisoning about a year after the filming. While watching the footage, Tanaka had a breakdown.

“All of a sudden I was sobbing and I started to think about what I’d done,” Tanaka said. “I was thinking, ‘I could be the father of a Japanese Chernobyl.’”

Two years later Tanaka says he went to the Trade Ministry to report the cover-up he’d been involved in more than a decade earlier. The government refused to investigate and Hitachi denied his accusations, he said.

Everybody lies.

“They said, if Hitachi says they didn’t do it, then there’s no problem,” Tanaka said. “Companies don’t always tell the truth.”

So... is there still someone who believes anything coming out of Fukushima? And anyone who thinks that spraying water on overheating reactors from hopelessly irradiated firetrucks will actually do anything at all?

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fukushima-smoking-gun-emerges-founding-engineer-says-reactor-4-has-always-been-time-bomb-exp?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+zerohedge%2Ffeed+%28zero+hedg e+-+on+a+long+enough+timeline%2C+the+survival+rate+fo r+everyone+drops+to+zero%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

Reactor 1 Core Has Passed 400 Degrees Celsius

Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry at a press conference Friday morning, the day before the No. 1 nuclear power plant in Fukushima Daiichi TEPCO announced that it was found that the temperature of 400 degrees in a nuclear reactor.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/reactor-1-core-has-passed-400-degrees-celsius


TOKYO — Tokyo Water Bureau officials say levels of radioactive iodine in some city tap water is two times the recommended limit for infants.

The officials told reporters Wednesday that a water treatment center in downtown Tokyo that supplies much of the city's tap water found that some water contained 210 becquerels per liter of iodine 131.

They said the limit for consumption of iodine 131 for infants is 100 becquerels per liter. They recommended that babies not be given tap water, although they said the water is not an immediate health risk for adults.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7486954.html

beefsteak
23rd March 2011, 12:17 AM
Not encouraging at all. In fact, I shuddered, Serpo.

Large Sarge
23rd March 2011, 02:06 AM
Thanks, Large Sarge.

Interesting that low/slo has such rapid deleterious effects on the cellular level acc'd to the scientists quoted in your paper presented above. That seems counter-intuitive to me. You?

beefsteak


I am still trying to get a handle on it, but from my take it seems like the slow, prolonged dosing of radiation is worse for human health.

like the body does not mount any defense at all.

"death by a thousand pin pricks" (or some such)

if the body does not recognize the threat, then nothing will be done.......

woodman
23rd March 2011, 04:49 AM
Thanks, Large Sarge.

Interesting that low/slo has such rapid deleterious effects on the cellular level acc'd to the scientists quoted in your paper presented above. That seems counter-intuitive to me. You?

beefsteak


I am still trying to get a handle on it, but from my take it seems like the slow, prolonged dosing of radiation is worse for human health.

like the body does not mount any defense at all.

"death by a thousand pin pricks" (or some such)

if the body does not recognize the threat, then nothing will be done.......




The body is an amazingly resilient thing. In the case of radiation, I don't believe the body has any way of recognizing and nuetralizing it. It is not something that we evolved to deal with. If it gets in the body and is assimilated, in the case of iodine in the thyroid, etc, then the damage is done and only time will tell. Kind of like asbestos, once it's in you, it's part of you forever.

Olmstein
23rd March 2011, 05:36 AM
Great news on CNN. Reactor 3 is smoking again.

Also, new RT video of the damaged reactors up close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ8DdBsXji4

JohnQPublic
23rd March 2011, 05:40 AM
John Q,
are you long Ashgrove Cement perchance? (ASHG.PK)...it's move from $161 to $178 just since the 3/11, now $175-ish

Bet it goes higher.

Fascinating graphic...I just came back from Zero, and didn't spot that one. Is it in one of the "comments" sections?


I found it in the comments erlated to the story of the engineer who confessed to covering up the vessel damage. I get almost as much news/info. from the comments section as the blog stories themselves.

Olmstein
23rd March 2011, 05:45 AM
Status of all 6 reactors from CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/23/japan.reactors.status/)

Tokyo (CNN) -- Workers at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant have been scrambling to cool down fuel rods and prevent the release of additional radioactive material since a 9.0-magnitude earthquake and tsunami hit the area on March 11.

Here is a summary of the status of each of the plant's six reactors and surrounding buildings, according to the non-profit Japan Atomic Industrial Forum, Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) and the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Reactor No. 1

Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said Wednesday that temperatures had spiked above 400 degrees Celsius in this reactor, forcing workers to inject more seawater into the reactor to cool it down.

On Tuesday TEPCO reported that seawater did more damage electrical and cooling systems for this reactor than previously believed, and the unit will take longer to repair than expected.

Fuel rods have been partly exposed, and the core of the reactor is believed to have been damaged. The building that houses the reactor was severely damaged in a hydrogen explosion March 12, but the containment vessel -- the steel and concrete shell that insulates radioactive material inside -- was not damaged.

Workers have been pumping a mix of seawater and boron into the reactor to prevent further core damage until coolant systems can be brought back online.

Reactor No. 2

Coolant pumps and electrical components were damaged at Reactor No. 2, and the earliest those parts can be replaced is Wednesday, TEPCO reported.

Officials say fuel inside the reactor has been partially exposed as temperatures rose and water levels dropped. Workers have injected seawater into the reactor.

The reactor building has been slightly damaged, and a suspected explosion March 15 may have damaged the reactor's containment vessel.

White smoke emerged from the building Monday and Tuesday, but the cause had not been determined.

Workers have been pumping a mix of seawater and boron into the reactor to prevent further core damage until coolant systems can be brought back online.

Reactor No. 3

Black smoke emerged from the building housing this reactor Wednesday. Officials have not said what caused it, or whether any radiation was released.

Power has been restored in the control room at this reactor -- which officials say could be a key step in bringing cooling systems back online. TEPCO planned to conduct tests Wednesday of pumps designed to inject water into the reactor.

Officials say fuel inside the reactor has been partially exposed as temperatures rose and water levels dropped. Workers have injected seawater into the reactor. Its fuel includes plutonium mixed with the uranium in its fuel rods, which experts say could cause more harm than regular uranium fuels in the event of a meltdown.

A pool containing spent fuel rods is a chief concern. Firefighters planned to continue dousing the pools with water Wednesday to keep those rods cool.

The building was severely damaged in a hydrogen explosion March 14. Gray smoke also emerged from the building Monday. By Tuesday, the smoke was white and was dissipating. Officials have not said what caused it.

Reactor No. 4

At least one fire and an explosion severely damaged the building on March 15.

The reactor does not contain any fuel rods, and no damage is suspected in the reactor's containment vessel.

But the pool that houses the spent fuel rods is a chief concern.

Crews continued using cement pumps to spray water on the pool Wednesday to keep fuel rods cool.

Reactor No. 5

Workers created vent holes in the building's roof to avoid a hydrogen explosion.

The cooling system has electrical power. That controls the temperature of the reactor, which is in cold shutdown, and the pool containing spent fuel rods.

Reactor No. 6

Workers created vent holes in the building's roof to avoid a hydrogen explosion.

The cooling system has electrical power. That controls the temperature of the reactor, which is in cold shutdown, and the pool containing spent fuel rods.

JohnQPublic
23rd March 2011, 06:11 AM
Nuclear waste is actually poop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXPN4dfBAGU

Awoke
23rd March 2011, 06:24 AM
Here is some information from an industry source:

http://www.radiationsafety.ca/japan-nuclear-crisis (EDIT - Source URL here has the links for navigating)







Information About Japan’s Nuclear Crisis

Media coverage of the earthquake and the tsunami that hit Japan on March 11, 2011 is extensive. Japan is facing many challenges dealing with the consequences of these catastrophic events. One of the important issues is the situation at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, which has sustained serious damage from the earthquake and the tsunami.

The story continues to develop and is being closely monitored by media worldwide. Rather than restating the same information, we would like to help you better understand the scientific fundamentals behind the story, and explain some of the terminology and units of measurement used in the coverage.

Many sources are doing a great job providing up-to-date information on the developments at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. In addition to the media that you may have already consulted, we would like to suggest several information sources that we have found particularly helpful.

For general questions about what radiation is, what the health effects of exposure are, etc., visit :
Radiation Safety Institute’sFAQ
The Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety ionizing radiation FAQ


To better understand what happened where, and when, visit:
The Washington Post graphics, “Japan’s nuclear emergency
The CBC’s interactive “Disaster in Japan”


For reliable, up-to-date information about the state of the reactors and dose-rate measurements, visit:
The International Atomic Energy Agency Update on Japan Earthquake


To find answers to your health and safety concerns, visit:

Health Canada’s Information Update
Public Safety Canada’s Japan Earthquake Information for Canadians
Canadian Food Inspection Agency’s “Japan Earthquake: Information for Canadians Regarding Imported Foods”
Public Health Agency of Canada “Nuclear Emergency in Japan: Travel Notice”
World Health Organization FAQs: Japan nuclear concerns


For information on safety of nuclear power plants in Canada, visit:
The Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission Questions and Answers

beefsteak
23rd March 2011, 07:42 AM
Thanks, Large Sarge.

Interesting that low/slo has such rapid deleterious effects on the cellular level acc'd to the scientists quoted in your paper presented above. That seems counter-intuitive to me. You?

beefsteak


I am still trying to get a handle on it, but from my take it seems like the slow, prolonged dosing of radiation is worse for human health.

like the body does not mount any defense at all.

"death by a thousand pin pricks" (or some such)

if the body does not recognize the threat, then nothing will be done.......




My thoughts are along this line, Large Sarge:

If Low and Slo, then consideration of regular consumption from this day forward with:
1) re-balancing nutrition containing foods high in iodine,
2) proper EDTA supplemental (ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid) daily, and
3) deliberate consumption of French Green Clay such as scientist Starr-Hull stated Russian Govt passed out for free in the form of chocolate bars containing green clay post Chernobyl disaster (from live interview on Rense.com) to help eliminate non specified type of radiation,
perhpas low and slo will permit steady remediation efforts that us mere mortals can utilize. It's not just quantity of life for myself and others that I'm interested in preserving, but all QUALITY of life.

Your thoughts?

beefsteak

beefsteak
23rd March 2011, 07:55 AM
Olmstein,
as per your post, I am struck by the incongruity that now...some 40 years after construction of said facility housing hundreds of thousands of "spent" fuel rods, in drained pools, that it is now prudent to create vent holes in #4 ostensibly to "prevent hydrogen explosion(s)."

If this was original intent, then why weren't the "vent holes" already there?
Correct me if I'm mistaken, please, but if containment buildings are for containment, then why are they being vented now? All this is is palliative pablum for public consumption. Escaping radiation is escaping radiation, new holes, old holes, or explosion holes...all the same result. Now if this was a prelude to pouring in entombing concrete, then drill away, and get'er done.

However, that is not what the article said nor implies. How do you see this venting "revelation" on #4's containment structure. Tacit admission of failure of fuel rods or setting up for entombment? Or neither? Or some other construct?

beefsteak

Horn
23rd March 2011, 08:36 AM
I'm aware they had a vent valve on the first reactor shell that blew.

Apparently it was not functioning to vent enough, or not at all.

So these holes may have been created to alleviate the same deal happening there.

DMac
23rd March 2011, 08:38 AM
I think a thread was first posted on GSUS by Spectrism on neutron beams being detected. Here is some more info:

Neutron beam observed 13 times at crippled Fukushima nuke plant (http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80539.html)


TOKYO, March 23, Kyodo

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday it has observed a neutron beam, a kind of radioactive ray, 13 times on the premises of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant after it was crippled by the massive March 11 quake-tsunami disaster.

TEPCO, the operator of the nuclear plant, said the neutron beam measured about 1.5 kilometers southwest of the plant's No. 1 and 2 reactors over three days from March 13 and is equivalent to 0.01 to 0.02 microsieverts per hour and that this is not a dangerous level.

The utility firm said it will measure uranium and plutonium, which could emit a neutron beam, as well.

In the 1999 criticality accident at a nuclear fuel processing plant run by JCO Co. in Tokaimura, Ibaraki Prefecture, uranium broke apart continually in nuclear fission, causing a massive amount of neutron beams.

In the latest case at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, such a criticality accident has yet to happen.

But the measured neutron beam may be evidence that uranium and plutonium leaked from the plant's nuclear reactors and spent nuclear fuels have discharged a small amount of neutron beams through nuclear fission.

==Kyodo

Olmstein
23rd March 2011, 10:16 AM
Olmstein,
as per your post, I am struck by the incongruity that now...some 40 years after construction of said facility housing hundreds of thousands of "spent" fuel rods, in drained pools, that it is now prudent to create vent holes in #4 ostensibly to "prevent hydrogen explosion(s)."

If this was original intent, then why weren't the "vent holes" already there?
Correct me if I'm mistaken, please, but if containment buildings are for containment, then why are they being vented now? All this is is palliative pablum for public consumption. Escaping radiation is escaping radiation, new holes, old holes, or explosion holes...all the same result. Now if this was a prelude to pouring in entombing concrete, then drill away, and get'er done.

However, that is not what the article said nor implies. How do you see this venting "revelation" on #4's containment structure. Tacit admission of failure of fuel rods or setting up for entombment? Or neither? Or some other construct?

beefsteak



I have no idea why they would need to drill any more holes. Those containment buildings all look like swiss cheese at this point, anyway. I gather that the original design doesn't allow for venting hydrogen, because they fuel was supposed to be cooled by the circulating water to the point that it never got hot enough to create hydrogen.

And locally, more good news. (http://www.azfamily.com/news/Trace-118478639.html)

Trace levels of radiation from Japan detected west of Valley

PHOENIX - Trace levels of radiation from the damaged Fukushima Daiichi Power Plant in Japan have been detected in areas West of the Valley. Officials say the levels are too low to pose any risk.

Health physicists from the Arizona Radiation Regulatory Agency (ARRA) say they first noticed a slight uptick in levels of the radioactive material Iodine-131 on Saturday in areas west of the Valley, and in one Phoenix location. The readings were slightly higher on Monday.

The agency has increased their readings of radiation levels from weekly to daily since an earthquake struck Japan, damaging nuclear power facilities there.

The agency's detection instruments are mostly located near the Palo Verde power plant, west of Buckeye. One is at a South Phoenix location.

Aubrey Godwin, the director of ARRA, says the levels are nothing to worry about.

At one testing location near Arlington Elementary School west of Buckeye, readings from Monday March 21 registered at 3.6 picocuries per cubic meter. Godwin says levels would have to be above 1000 pCi/M3 to pose any risk.

Godwin echoed other state officials who have urged Arizonans not to consume potassium iodide, or KI, an over-the-counter drug as a precaution. While KI can protect the thyroid from severe exposure to radiation, officials say it's unnecessary in Arizona and could cause more harm than good.

Large Sarge
23rd March 2011, 11:07 AM
the thing I keep seeing on radiation is that it interferes with glutathione production,

one thing in the back of my mind (from an old article or book), is I seem to remember people that did high doses of vitamin E (not sur ehte amounts right now), were essentially immune to problems from radiation.

Anyway this is an old article, so let me dig around some, do some searching.

I am confident on boosting glutathion production, and the things you mentioned are good (especially the clay, getting rid of waste)