What do you guys think of pre-1899 firearms

[ximmy]

Apparently you can buy guns made before 1899 and avoid FFL... I have been looking at some S&W and Colt revolvers, and some shotguns... there are some sweet looking models out there and since they are antiques they should hold or increase value over time.

Seems a good way to stay off the grid.
ximy

[sunnyandseventy]

Too late, you're here. :P

[drafter]

I have a few. They're neat to have but most you'll find won't fire modern smokeless cartridges or if they do they're "absolete" rounds that are nearly impossible to find. I'm got a really neat little engraved pistol that's chambered on .32 Rimfire. Good luck finding ammo for something like that. Cap and ball firearms are fun to play with but not very practical unless it's all that's left I suppose.

[Horn]

This gun fires the finest cartridge ever produced by mankind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Mauser

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/6.5_x_55mm.JPG

[milehi]

What a coincindence. Today's errands include tracking down .32 long or short S&W and 8mm Mauser. So far I'm striking out but have a few places to stop by.

[ximmy]

What a coincindence. Today's errands include tracking down .32 long or short S&W and 8mm Mauser. So far I'm striking out but have a few places to stop by.


That's part of my concern... ammunition.

I mean can you use today's .38 smokeless cartridge where the gun was originally made for a black powder cartridge?

Are 12 gauge shotgun shells the same, I noticed many of the pre-20 century 12 gauge shotguns are "short chamber" whatever that is... Can I get shells for this???
ximmy

[Horn]

Are 12 gauge shotgun shells the same, I noticed many of the pre-20 century 12 gauge shotguns are "short chamber" whatever that is... Can I get shells for this???
ximmy


Whoa, you willin to look down the barrel of a 200yr shotgun?

This girls' got gonads.

[ximmy]

Are 12 gauge shotgun shells the same, I noticed many of the pre-20 century 12 gauge shotguns are "short chamber" whatever that is... Can I get shells for this???
ximmy


Whoa, you willin to look down the barrel of a 200yr shotgun?

This girls' got gonads.



Charles Parker 1878 Side by Side Shotgun - 12 Gauge.
May Swaisey (Sheila Florance) the old woman that Max and family are staying with uses this gun to corner Toecutter's biker thugs into a shed. Could be a Charles Parker 1878 side by side.

[sirgonzo420]

As far as the rare ammo concerns go.... pre-1899 firearms can be rechambered into different calibers, re-barelled, etc, without changing the legal status.

As long as the reciever was actually manufactured before January 1, 1899, then the weapon is not considered a "firearm" under federal law.

[Horn]

You better make sure any shotgun you buy that old is in good firing condition first, May.

[SLV^GLD]

There are plenty of shotguns that old in firing condition... in people's collections and heirlooms. The problem is they are either not for sale or only to the highest bidder. Rolling your own shotgun shell is an achievable task. I'll stick to modern shotguns, myself.

[mightymanx]

Tey sell Mausers that are rechambered for 308 all the time sent to your door.

They are one hell of a rifle. Prices range from 200-600 depending on condition.

Plus you get to use the bazillion mauser doodads available while shooting one of the most popular "big" centirefire cartridges on the planet.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/1895-CHILEAN-MAUSER-RIFLE-308-BAYONET-SCABBARD.cfm?gun_id=100160669

http://www.chuckhawks.com/old_mausers.htm

Mauser actions are still used for custom guns to this day.

[hoarder]

If you want to buy a pre 1899 firearm to avoid FFL paperwork, you could buy a later firearm from a private owner.
Some people are worried that a firearm purchased from an individual might have a theft history. Up until a few decades ago, shotguns were not required to have serial numbers. I bought a side by side Stevens double barrel shotgun that is recent enough manufacture to have a plastic stock and it didn't have a serial number.

[steyr_m]

Make your own.


How does one make their own .32 rimfire?

[steyr_m]

Are 12 gauge shotgun shells the same, I noticed many of the pre-20 century 12 gauge shotguns are "short chamber" whatever that is... Can I get shells for this???
ximmy


I'm not sure what a "short chamber" is. If I was in the market for a pre-20th century shotgun (or any gun). I would have a gunsmith make sure it was safe to shoot. While he was looking at it, I would have him measure the chamber and see if the standard 2-3/4" shell can be fired in it. I think the 2-3/4" shell has been around for awhile, so there's a good chance it will.

[ximmy]

I wonder if it is even worth pursuing older firearms or is it no big deal to get FFL and just buy an AR15... :dunno

[sunnyandseventy]

I wonder if it is even worth pursuing older firearms or is it no big deal to get FFL and just buy an AR15... :dunno


You don't need an FFL to get an AR-15. The gun dealer needs an FFL to sell guns to you.
Is that what you were asking?

[steyr_m]

Make your own.


How does one make their own .32 rimfire?


Short answer? Very carefully!!!


A better answer is that you don't because you can't.

[Rebel Yarr]

I would not worry about the paperwork Ximmy. There are 100's of millions of firearms in the US. But, as mentioned above - just do a private party transfer.

I would absolutely not buy a pre-1900's firearm to avoid the paperwork. They have all kinds of considerations and for the most part should not be a primary go-to firearm.

Yes, go get an AR-15 - get what you want and don't worry bout the paperwork.

If you happen to be in WA I have a variety of firearms I could sell/trade - including an AR.

[ximmy]

I would not worry about the paperwork Ximmy. There are 100's of millions of firearms in the US. But, as mentioned above - just do a private party transfer.

I would absolutely not buy a pre-1900's firearm to avoid the paperwork. They have all kinds of considerations and for the most part should not be a primary go-to firearm.

Yes, go get an AR-15 - get what you want and don't worry bout the paperwork.

If you happen to be in WA I have a variety of firearms I could sell/trade - including an AR.


thanks, yeah, as I've been looking more into this I'm starting to see the network of connections available... :)

[steyr_m]

Make your own.


How does one make their own .32 rimfire?


Short answer? Very carefully!!!


A better answer is that you don't because you can't.


Don't know. Never tried.

However, I do believe if I did try to make it then I would be careful in the doing.


If you look at the picture, the case on the left is a rimfire. It's a once use only. The case on the right has a removable primer and could be replaced. You can do it as carefully as you want. It probably won't be made....

[steyr_m]

I dis-agree with Rebel Yarr. The AR is a fine rifle; but it is complicated (and expensive) compared to other rifles and cleaning is necessary because of Direct Impingement of the gas system.

I'd say an SKS, AK or a short barreled Rem 870. Esp with the shotgun, it's easy to shoot, ammo is easy to get, and the racking of the action is usually enough to scare the crap of of people.

[steyr_m]

If you look at the picture, the case on the left is a rimfire. It's a once use only. The case on the right has a removable primer and could be replaced. You can do it as carefully as you want. It probably won't be made....
I never mentioned RELOADING a rimfire. If someone once made a rimfire cartridge another can certainly do the same. The casing itself is nothing more than pressed brass.

A rimfire case is much lighter than a centerfire so that the metal can be crimped by the hammer (or firing pin). This would limit the muzzle velocity of the bullet as the case would not be able to tolerate higher pressures.


OK, got me on that one. Sure it can be manufactured; but is it economically feasible for the average guy. Shaping of the case would be the easy part. The ingredients needed for making the primer itself is probably controlled. It'd like to learn how if possible....

[steyr_m]

OK, got me on that one. Sure it can be manufactured; but is it economically feasible for the average guy. Shaping of the case would be the easy part. The ingredients needed for making the primer itself is probably controlled. It'd like to learn how if possible....
Don't know for sure but grinding up the heads of kitchen matches might be a start. Maybe add a little paraffin to keep the powder where it belongs.


I've heard of that, but that's a last resort thing. I'm talking about manufacturing factory quality ammo.

[steyr_m]

I've heard of that, but that's a last resort thing. I'm talking about manufacturing factory quality ammo.

I'm not sure that using the term "manufacturing" doesn't place the activity squarely into commerce. Creating is always acceptable as that which you create you get to control.


I "manufacture" better than factory centre-fire and shotshells already at home, IMHO. It isn't commerce if I don't sell it as a business.

Another thing I'd like to learn is how to make my own black-powder.

[solid]

Ximmy, keep in mind if you do a private party purchase in CA, there's still the 10 day waiting period. Also, be prepared for them to ask you about a gun safe. There's a new thing where you have to show proof you own a gun safe. Heads up on that one, it could really surprise you if you weren't prepared.

[ximmy]

Ximmy, keep in mind if you do a private party purchase in CA, there's still the 10 day waiting period. Also, be prepared for them to ask you about a gun safe. There's a new thing where you have to show proof you own a gun safe. Heads up on that one, it could really surprise you if you weren't prepared.


solid, nobody is saying anything about a waiting period... just bring cash and negotiate a safe exchange place... I found a great forum for private sales & trades. Are there special rules for PPT (private party trade) that I don't know about???

[solid]

solid, nobody is saying anything about a waiting period... just bring cash and negotiate a safe exchange place... I found a great forum for private sales & trades. Are there special rules for PPT (private party trade) that I don't know about???


Ximmy, I really don't know..here's what happened to me. A friend sold me his Marlin 45-70, stainless, it was my dream gun..pirate hull punching gun. I love this gun!

So, we went to the local gun shop/dealer, to transfer ownership, being it was registered to him. Next thing I know, I'm filling out a mountain of paperwork, one form I had to sign was about a gun safe. I made up a safe out of thin air, told them I had a browning 20 gun safe,etc. The guy didn't care, nodded his head it was BS, but it's still another form to sign.

It took me 10 days to pick up the gun, after that. Honestly, I felt like a criminal through the whole process.

There's lot's of folks that know more about this stuff than me, but this was my experience. I would rather not repeat it. CA, anti-gun, that's been my experience.

[Rebel Yarr]

I dis-agree with Rebel Yarr. The AR is a fine rifle; but it is complicated (and expensive) compared to other rifles and cleaning is necessary because of Direct Impingement of the gas system.

I'd say an SKS, AK or a short barreled Rem 870. Esp with the shotgun, it's easy to shoot, ammo is easy to get, and the racking of the action is usually enough to scare the crap of of people.


It doesn't really matter - she is the one who was talking about AR. I wasn'tmaking any recommendations here other than a C&R eligeable so that she can actually do a private party without paperwork.

If I were to make a recommendation it would be for any of the Makarov's lying around - the handle the capacity issues of CA - the transfer issues - also most likely fit her hands better than most others/light recoil - and a pistol just makes more since if you only have one firearm - i.e take it with her or keep it under the pillow ect...

[steyr_m]

I dis-agree with Rebel Yarr. The AR is a fine rifle; but it is complicated (and expensive) compared to other rifles and cleaning is necessary because of Direct Impingement of the gas system.

I'd say an SKS, AK or a short barreled Rem 870. Esp with the shotgun, it's easy to shoot, ammo is easy to get, and the racking of the action is usually enough to scare the crap of of people.


It doesn't really matter - she is the one who was talking about AR. I wasn'tmaking any recommendations here other than a C&R eligeable so that she can actually do a private party without paperwork.

If I were to make a recommendation it would be for any of the Makarov's lying around - the handle the capacity issues of CA - the transfer issues - also most likely fit her hands better than most others/light recoil - and a pistol just makes more since if you only have one firearm - i.e take it with her or keep it under the pillow ect...


Yep, noted...

[Black Blade]

I have revived a few old antique 1891 Argentine Mausers (7.65x53) as hunting rifles. Some of the best pronghorn, deer and elk rifles in my collection.

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/14b36e871292a81c21d2130a35ca9a11fb69b469.pjpg

1891 Argentine Mausers - 7.65x53 Mauser

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/83e16b15ab261230984c6a76379e2f76e7499ed0.pjpg

1893 Chilean Mauser (bottom) - 7x57 mm Mauser

All excellent rifles and are antiques (no FFL required). Some 1893 Chilean Mausers were rechambered in .308 for the military and have been imported to the US and sold as antiques.

[Large Sarge]

Hey Ximmy,

I am going off memory, but I think you are in that "very unfriendly towards guns" state of California....

Your neighbor to the East is about as pleasant and warm to guns as you could ever desire.... (Arizona)

so my sincere advice, locate a few "I wanta" (personal sales, found at gas stations, etc) for a few of the cities, phoenix, tucson, flagstaff, etc


Round up some cash, and a male friend (or 2) you trust, drive over and buy them there, completely legal, cash transaction, no record, etc

go for revolvers first on your handguns, no chance of jamming during a crisis...

Hope that Helps,

Sarge

(thats what I would do if I were living there)

[ximmy]

Thanks guys... I found out a lot and have since acquired a 1950's shotgun (no paper trail). In cali. you can legally buy a long gun that is over 50 years old. They are classified C&R Curio & Relic, and any pistol pre 1899 is considered the same. Remington started making the current 870 in 1950 so it is pretty much the same gun you can purchase today. ;D :P

[zap]

Good for you XIMY !

I like shotguns the best, I like rackin them and shootin them, whoo hoo my favorite !! and you just got to get any where near the target, you'll get it ! ;) ;D :D