Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court

[Serpo]

The leader of a group that marketed a fake currency called Liberty Dollars in the Asheville area and elsewhere has been found guilty by a federal jury of conspiracy against the government in a case of “domestic terrorism.”

Bernard von NotHaus was convicted Friday at the conclusion of an eight-day trial in U.S. District Court in Statesville. The jury deliberated less than two hours, according to the Department of Justice.

Charges remain pending against William Kevin Innes, an Asheville man who authorities said recruited merchants in Western North Carolina willing to accept the “barter” currency, according to court records. Innes was indicted along with von NotHaus in 2009.

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country.”
:sun:
The case was investigated by the FBI, Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office and U.S. Secret Service with help from the U.S. Mint.

“We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government,” Tompkins said.

Von NotHaus, 67, faces up to 25 years in prison during sentencing, which hasn’t been scheduled. The government also is seeking the forfeiture of about 16,000 pounds of Liberty Dollar coins and precious metals valued at nearly $7 million.

According to court documents, von NotHaus founded the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code in Evansville, Ind., in 1998, and developed the Liberty Dollar. He touted the silver medallions as an inflation-proof alternative to official currency.

The coins were marked with the dollar sign, the words “dollar,” “USA,” “Liberty,” “Trust in God” (instead of “In God We Trust”) and other features associated with legitimate U.S. coins.


A 2007 affidavit said more than 70 businesses in the Asheville area agreed to accept the Liberty Dollar. Innes held the title of North Carolina regional currency officer and was one of three members of the group’s executive committee, an indictment states.

The charges against Innes include passing coins resembling genuine U.S. coins and intended for use as money, mail fraud and possession Liberty Dollar coins with intent to defraud. Authorities said when he was arrested that he faces up to 45 years in prison.

Despite warnings from the federal government, Innes told the Citizen-Times in 2006 that Liberty Dollars were legal.

“One of the first things I did when I started this in Asheville was to go to the police and tell them what I was doing,” he said.

Federal agents raided von NotHaus’ company headquarters in 2007 and seized documents and precious metals. A private mint in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, that produced the coins was raided the same day.

Congress has exclusive power to coin money in the U.S. and to regulate its value, according to the Treasury Department.

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20110319/NEWS01/110319006/1001/news/Liberty-Dollar-fake-currency-creator-convicted-federal-court?odyssey=nav|head



RALEIGH -- Cautioning that the federal dollars in your wallet could soon be little more than green paper backed by broken promises, state Rep. Glen Bradley wants North Carolina to issue its own legal tender backed by silver and gold.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/03/17/1059132/legislator-says-the-state-needs.html

[Twisted Titan]

“One of the first things I did when I started this in Asheville was to go to the police and tell them what I was doing,” he said.


And that is why your doing time.

NEVER TELL THEM ANYTHING.


T

[Hatha Sunahara]

This is just a reminder of how corrupt the 'Justice' system is. It cannot be less corrupt than the money system. I am constantly amazed at how the can get juries to convict people of such absurd 'crimes'. I suppose they select people who 'need to be told what to do' to be on those juries. God help the justice system if they ever select a jury of people who can think for themselves.

I suppose they have a 'zero tolerance' policy against using PMs as money. They'll give Mr. von NotHaus a sentence so long he will be rotting in jail decades after the dollar becomes worthless, and the empire is decimated by the civilized world.

Hatha

[dys]

Just a thought but the last thing you want to do is to take on the system when you are voting, signed up for social security, receiving mail at a federal zone (zip code), ... on and on ...

The argument used to convict the man was of being a DOMESTIC terrorist. Prove you are not DOMESTIC and you will simply be a terrorist (to a banker by using gold and silver). Stay out of those federal zones and you can even say you are a NON-RESIDENT terrorist.


Nonsense. The jury convicted him. Juries don't know about pseudo-law.

dys

[Antonio]

Why the hell coin your own silver coins when you can conduct business using the beautiful old US silver dollars and pre-`64 change?
Nobody is going to accuse you of counterfeiting US currency when you got a Morgan and a 20$ gold piece.

[Veni, vidi...evigilavi!]

Why the hell coin your own silver coins when you can conduct business using the beautiful old US silver dollars and pre-`64 change?
Nobody is going to accuse you of counterfeiting US currency when you got a Morgan and a 20$ gold piece.

I guess b/c he tried to prove a point, that we don't need FRN's; well, he proved one alright... once again the government hates competition!! :P

[madfranks]

The coins were marked with the dollar sign, the words “dollar,” “USA,” “Liberty,” “Trust in God” (instead of “In God We Trust”) and other features associated with legitimate U.S. coins.

So are they going to arrest the folks who make these coins next?

http://www.coin-rare.com/images/products/display/MercuryDime.1.png

http://www.coin-rare.com/images/products/display/MorganDollar700px.jpg

http://www.collectingsilvercoins.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/-1038283206397020170.jpg

[General of Darkness]

This is a real travesty of justice. I don't know what else to say. >:(

[sirgonzo420]

The coins were marked with the dollar sign, the words “dollar,” “USA,” “Liberty,” “Trust in God” (instead of “In God We Trust”) and other features associated with legitimate U.S. coins.

So are they going to arrest the folks who make these coins next?

http://www.coin-rare.com/images/products/display/MercuryDime.1.png

http://www.coin-rare.com/images/products/display/MorganDollar700px.jpg

http://www.collectingsilvercoins.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/-1038283206397020170.jpg



Nope.


They don't have a "face value" denominated in "dollars".

[madfranks]

Nope.


They don't have a "face value" denominated in "dollars".


Is a "Liberty Dollar" and a "Dollar" the same thing? What about Canadian Dollars? Or all the other monies denominated in "Dollars"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar


The dollar (often represented by the dollar sign $) is the name of the official currency of many countries, including the United States, Canada, the Eastern Caribbean territories, Ecuador, Suriname, El Salvador, Panama, Belize, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Brunei, East Timor, Australia, and New Zealand.

Does someone own the copyright to the term "Dollar"? I contend that anyone, even you or me, could make a "sir gonzo dollar" or a "madfranks dollar" and it is clearly not the same as the Federal Reserve Note commonly referred to as the US Dollar, especially when said Dollar is made of gold or silver and not forced upon the public by government decree and legal tender laws.

[sirgonzo420]

Nope.


They don't have a "face value" denominated in "dollars".


Is a "Liberty Dollar" and a "Dollar" the same thing? What about Canadian Dollars? Or all the other monies denominated in "Dollars"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar


The dollar (often represented by the dollar sign $) is the name of the official currency of many countries, including the United States, Canada, the Eastern Caribbean territories, Ecuador, Suriname, El Salvador, Panama, Belize, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Brunei, East Timor, Australia, and New Zealand.

Does someone own the copyright to the term "Dollar"? I contend that anyone, even you or me, could make a "sir gonzo dollar" or a "madfranks dollar" and it is clearly not the same as the Federal Reserve Note commonly referred to as the US Dollar, especially when said Dollar is made of gold or silver and not forced upon the public by government decree and legal tender laws.



I know. I agree. This case and the verdict is horseshit.


http://www.ekday.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/disney-dollar.jpg

[vacuum]

Those 12 jurors bring me a new level of disgust for the american public.

[Hypertiger]

Liberty Services original name was National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Code.

You are begging to be annihilated by the top when you supply the top with a reason.

You have a death wish.

The top will see threats rising up the hierarchy long before the threats see the destroyers sent to annihilate the threat.

[ozcopper]

At 67, Bernard Von NotHaus will not live through the jail sentence so its like a death sentence... very sad :(

[iOWNme]

What EXACTLY was he convicted for?


“We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government,” Tompkins said.


"Sir, i would like to inform you that WE ARE DETERMINED to overthrow this Satanic Usury based system via information dissemination, individual responsibility and the TRUTH about your CRIMINAL organization which constantly seeks to challenge the legitimacy of our Constitutional Republic."


Fixed.

[JDRock]

..WTF?? ....HE was accused of "marketing FAKE money"??? exactly what is federal reserve doing as we speak?? with the complicity of the gov and the media??

[BillBoard]

Liberty Services original name was National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Code.

You are begging to be annihilated by the top when you supply the top with a reason.

You have a death wish.

The top will see threats rising up the hierarchy long before the threats see the destroyers sent to annihilate the threat.


Hypertiger,

Too bad the ignorant are not able to clearly comprehend your simple words. If they could, they would clearly see how right you are.

BB

[etc]

Why the hell coin your own silver coins when you can conduct business using the beautiful old US silver dollars and pre-`64 change?
Nobody is going to accuse you of counterfeiting US currency when you got a Morgan and a 20$ gold piece.


Oh they will. When they claim you are circulating by face value instead of market value. You know that IRS case.

Now if you try to pay your taxes, they will go by the face value.

The system is completely corrupt. That's an understatement.
This should dispel any illusions we have about living in a free country when they are throwing economists and businessmen in jail for minting private coinage. While banksters are looting the Treasury by the Trillions (With a "T").

We will surely see catastrophic levels of inflation either Q4 this year or next year. Go to the store and milk is 9.99/gallon and everything else doubled in price too. Kids go hungry at night on a bread and water diet. Yet they go after this guy. They are criminals in power, plain and simple, seeking to preserve their looting status quo and this trial is a political, kangaroo show trial to serve their political ends.

[po boy]

Why the hell coin your own silver coins when you can conduct business using the beautiful old US silver dollars and pre-`64 change?
Nobody is going to accuse you of counterfeiting US currency when you got a Morgan and a 20$ gold piece.


Oh they will. When they claim you are circulating by face value instead of market value. You know that IRS case.

Now if you try to pay your taxes, they will go by the face value.

The system is completely corrupt. That's an understatement.
This should dispel any illusions we have about living in a free country when they are throwing economists and businessmen in jail for minting private coinage. While banksters are looting the Treasury by the Trillions (With a "T").

We will surely see catastrophic levels of inflation either Q4 this year or next year. Go to the store and milk is 9.99/gallon and everything else doubled in price too. Kids go hungry at night on a bread and water diet. Yet they go after this guy. They are criminals in power, plain and simple, seeking to preserve their looting status quo and this trial is a political, kangaroo show trial to serve their political ends.






Got any sites for that?
In title 31 SAE and GAEs are legal tender and yes if you pay the IRS with them they will only give you face value, not such a good deal. That said it also works in the opposite direction say you are being paid in SAE or GAE it is taxable at face value as congress has deemed it legal tender.If you made say 5000SAE you would be under the minimum reporting requirement and owe no tax.

I posted a thread on this the other day and the NE so kindly corrected the link.

Hard money use it!

[po boy]

When they claim you are circulating by face value instead of market value. .
.
.
Hard money use it!


Fraus meretur fraudem. Fraud deserves fraud. Plow. 100. This is very doubtful morality.


Where's the fraud if it's legal? As Ponce says use what you got.

When FDR brought in the new deal it seems that was to take away property rights away and sine '85 we can use SAE and GAE, so what's fraudulent about that.

I would think you would appreciate using the LAW to you best interest? Now I'm promoting fraud?

Help me out with the Latin for this, what's good for the goose.......

[po boy]

I still am not seeing the fraud in using SAE and GAE as legal tender to reduce taxable income for those to whom income taxes apply.

The new deal took away people's right to pay debt thus true ownership. It also came with SS#'s for those deceived into accepting them and along with that the income tax.

There is nothing I know of that says you must be paid in checks or frn.

If one was self employed and had to file taxes one could reduce taxable income by being paid with hard money(SAE or GAE) as outlined in title31USC. So how is that fraudulent or immoral?

[Mouse]

One reduces one's income by reducing one's expenses. The equation always works.

If you can trade directly between honest men for what you need, there is no income, there is no expense. There is only prosperity and good will.

Reduce your use of the system and the system reduces it's use of you.

[keehah]

The coins were marked with the dollar sign, the words “dollar,” “USA,” “Liberty,” “Trust in God” (instead of “In God We Trust”) and other features associated with legitimate U.S. coins.
So he was really only guilty of copyright infringement against another private (?) corporation. Can they make a good case for significant financial gain by the use of 'dollar' instead of '1 ounce silver'?


“We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government,” Tompkins said.
Idiocracy at the high court. How can this Attorney not even know what type of government she is working to enforce?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

Democracy is a form of political organization in which all people, through consensus (consensus democracy), direct referendum (direct democracy), or elected representatives (representative democracy) exercise equal control over the matters which affect their interests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic

A constitutional republic is a state, where the head of state and other officials are representatives of the people and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over all of its citizens. Because the head of the state is elected, it is a republic and not a monarchy...

John Adams defined a constitutional republic as "a government of laws, and not of men." Constitutional republics attempt to weaken the threat of majoritarianism and protect dissenting individuals and minority groups from the "tyranny of the majority" by placing checks on the power of the majority of the population. The power of the majority of the people is limited to electing representatives who legislate within the limits of an overarching constitutional law that a simple majority cannot modify.

_________________


"Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country.”

The Federal Reserve Note is not legitimate. Silver is. We should put that in red above the 'CRASH JP Morgan Buy Silver' at the top of each page! 8)

[Silver Shield]

http://dont-tread-on.me/the-new-face-of-terror/

The New Face Of Terror
By Silver Shield, on March 20th, 2011

The world hit a whole new level of crazy today. So crazy that even I might be at a loss for words to describe how screwed up this is.

Look into the eyes of terror… This man looks as dangerous as Osama bin Laden and Hitler all rolled into one. This “Domestic Terrorist” was convicted today by the Federal Government for conspiracy against the United States. He faces 15 years in jail for this horrendous crime. What was this “Domestic Terrorist’s” crime? Was he complicit in 9/11? How about the Oklahoma City bombing? Or the Anthrax attacks? Or the collapse of the housing or stock markets? No, this 67 year old’s crime was minting silver coins call the Liberty Dollar.

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Tompkins said in announcing the verdict. (Source)

[keehah]

This is not as blatant a copyright infringement as the Liberty and Disney dollars. Sneaky corporate buggers that know what they can get away with. :D

http://aes.iupui.edu/rwise/banknotes/CAN_TIRE/CanadianTire-08-04-50c-donatedmjd.jpg

The Canadian Mint is going to be charged with terrorism big time!

[Awoke]

Nice to see a Hypertiger post. It's been a while.

[Horn]

Nice to see a Hypertiger post. It's been a while.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb7z1p6Dz80

[Ares]

The leader of a group that marketed a fake currency called Liberty Dollars in the Asheville area and elsewhere has been found guilty by a federal jury of conspiracy against the government in a case of “domestic terrorism.”


If they can make you believe absurdities they can make you commit atrocities.

-Voltaire

[po boy]

I still am not seeing the fraud in using SAE and GAE as legal tender to reduce taxable income for those to whom income taxes apply.


You would be straddling a boundary line. You are either in the democracy and 100% supportive of it or you are in the republic and pay for what you receive. Sign up for the democracy (register to vote, vote, SSN, evidence of protection being the passport) and act as if you are in the republic means you commit fraud upon one or the other.

The New Deal only affected people in the democracy (subject to the jurisdiction of the United States). With some exceptions that territorial jurisdiction ends at the District of Columbia. The in personam jurisdiction is determined by who you are (what actions and statements you make) rather than where you are.


The SAE, GAE are both lawful and legal tender for use on either side.You could go to a bank and receive FRN for GAE although not a good trade. Just as you could sell and asset for SAE or GAE no matter what side of the fence one is on.

[gunDriller]

http://charlotte.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel11/ce031811.htm

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20110319/NEWS01/110319006/1001/news/Liberty-Dollar-fake-currency-creator-convicted-federal-court?odyssey=nav%7Chead

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country.”


So, if I were to email the government of a foreign country, asking them to dump the dollar for moral reasons - because the US is one of the primary sponsors of Terror in the world - would that be "a unique form of domestic terrorism" ?

Or, what if I emailed a foreign government, asking them to use their Seat in the UN to declare economic sanctions against the US, again because the US is a primary sponsor of terrorism - would I then be accused of committing "a unique form of domestic terrorism" ?


The US has a problem. They teach Christian values in their schools, but they don't practice those values.

If it is indeed appropriate to deny funding to terrorists, then it is truly appropriate to de-fund the US and to de-fund Israel.

But, in the strange parallel universe created by the US, England, and Israel ...

white is black.
water is dry.

and the US is a Shining Beacon of Democracy.


... if we ignore all the SHIT they've done - Abu Ghraib 2, in Afghanistan, being just one more turd laid by the US military, where young people who mostly think they are "defending freedom" are manipulated by the Talmud-worshippers to do Really Bad Shit.

[iOWNme]

I wonder who is 'Attorney' was?

If this were me, I would have politely put the head of the Federal Reserve bank of NY on the stand, and asked him what he would redeem his 'paper' note for?

I think the Jury would find that I would be willing to redeem my 'Liberty Dollar' for the exact same thing, another Liberty Dollar.


You cannot counterfeit a counterfeit. If he was 'counterfeiting' gold receipts and redeeming them for physical gold, THAT WOULD BE COUNTERFEITING, and that was what the De Jure 'counterfeiting' Laws were originally intended for.

[mamboni]

http://dont-tread-on.me/the-new-face-of-terror/

The New Face Of Terror
By Silver Shield, on March 20th, 2011

The world hit a whole new level of crazy today. So crazy that even I might be at a loss for words to describe how screwed up this is.

Look into the eyes of terror… This man looks as dangerous as Osama bin Laden and Hitler all rolled into one. This “Domestic Terrorist” was convicted today by the Federal Government for conspiracy against the United States. He faces 15 years in jail for this horrendous crime. What was this “Domestic Terrorist’s” crime? Was he complicit in 9/11? How about the Oklahoma City bombing? Or the Anthrax attacks? Or the collapse of the housing or stock markets? No, this 67 year old’s crime was minting silver coins call the Liberty Dollar.

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Tompkins said in announcing the verdict. (Source)


Excellent editorial SS - everyone here must read it - outstanding!

[Serpo]

A ‘Unique’ Form of ‘Terrorism’

Editorial of The New York Sun | March 20, 2011


Here is a thought experiment concerning two men who have issued money. One issued gold and silver coins that will today bring more in dollars than he charged for them. The other issued paper notes that are today worth but a fraction the gold or silver they were worth at the time they were issued. One man is facing the possibility of years in prison after a federal jury found his issuing of money to have been a crime. The other man is walking around free and being treated by the authorities with great deference.

Which is which?

It turns out that the man walking free is Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve. A one-dollar note that his bank issued used to be worth — as recently as, say, the start of President Bush’s first term — a 265th of an ounce of gold; today it’s value has plunged to less than a 1,400th of an ounce of gold. The man who issued the coins that will fetch more dollars today than when he issued them is Bernard von NotHaus, 67. He called his coins “Liberty Dollars,” minted them with some similarities to government money, and even though they more than held their value it turns out they’re against the law.

Von NotHaus promised a “spectacular trial” when, in 2007, he was interviewed by our Joseph Goldstein.* At the time von NotHaus was expecting to be indicted, as he eventually was, in connection with his minting of coins. His boast to our Mr. Goldstein was that he would “put this country's monetary system on trial.” In the event, the trial of von NotHaus, which took place at Statesville, North Carolina, was over in but eight days. The jury deliberated but two hours before bringing in its verdict of guilty. It will stand for many as a lesson in the difficulties of illuminating the illogic of our monetary system.

We do not suggest that Mr. von NotHaus was wrongly tried or convicted. The United States code imposes a fine or imprisonment for anyone who, “except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design . . .” The Justice Department, in a press release about the verdict, asserts that von NotHaus was placing just such coins into circulation with the purpose of mixing them “into the current money of the United States.”

Nor do we suggest that Mr. Bernanke and his colleagues at the Federal Reserve have been violating the United States criminal code by issuing their currency by fiat. Nor do we suggest that the officers and directors of the Fed are anything other than honest and honorable individuals. The Federal Reserve has, over the years, won most of its battles in the federal courts, though possible angles for constitutional challenges have yet to be exhausted.

What we do suggest is that the contrast between the Fed and von NotHaus is an example of how the scandal is not in what’s illegal but in what’s legal. When Mr. Goldstein interviewed Mr. von NotHaus in 2007, he had recently been selling a one-ounce silver coin for $20, which at the time was, Mr. Goldstein noted, several dollars above the spot price of silver. It was also at the start of a rapid collapse in the value of Federal Reserve Notes, which has plunged to the point where today a dollar is worth less than a 30th of an ounce of silver. So who is the injured party — the individual who acquired a one-ounce Liberty silver coin for $20 or the individual who kept his wad of twenty one-dollar Federal Reserve Notes?

“A unique form of domestic terrorism” is the way the U.S. Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina, Anne M. Tompkins, is describing attempts “to undermine the legitimate currency of this country.” The Justice Department press release quotes her as saying: “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country.” Such language strikes us as hyperbolic. It may be that the monetary authorities in America fear that their own currency will be exposed as unsound. The monetary terror for the rest of Americans is the danger that there will be a further collapse in the value of their dollars or, conversely, a deflation that will make it even harder, or impossible, to pay back their debts.

The Founders of America understood all this. No doubt they wanted a national coinage. The Constitution they wrote forbids the states from making legal tender out of anything but gold or silver coins, and it is to the Congress that the Constitution gives the power to coin money and regulate its value. But they promptly defined a dollar as 371 ¼ grains of silver, which was the same as in a coin called a Spanish Milled Dollar, or the free market equivalent in gold. The record left by the Founders is replete with expressions of horror at paper money. They required our government officials to enforce the laws Congress has passed until a court tells them otherwise. But they would have understood the instinct of a man like von NotHaus to seek protection from a debasement that the Founders feared was, in respect of paper money, inevitable.

http://www.nysun.com/editorials/a-unique-form-of-terrorism/87269/

[Serpo]

And the debt never seems to be paid off...........

[po boy]

The SAE, GAE are both lawful and legal tender for use on either side.
Specie is constitutional money. I have no idea what lawful tender is. Legal tender is whatever congress says it is.

You could go to a bank and receive FRN for GAE although not a good trade. Have you tried this? I doubt if you would get a bank to make the trade although a cashier might take your $50 GAE and hand you a fifty dollar FRN out of her purse (a private trade?). I believe that is what I would do in that position.

Just as you could sell and asset for SAE or GAE no matter what side of the fence one is on. If you participate in the democracy you own quite a bit less than you think you do. Everything you have (or think you have) is pledged to make the national debt whole again. You are involved in a trust situation without the status of a beneficiary. You are a fiduciary instead and are expected to work your entire life for the social security that will be provided when you are old. So, no, you cannot sell and asset for a SAE or a GAE because then the specie becomes a part of the trust.

Try this look for post #6 it is more than I feel like typinggold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/the-gold-and-silver-money-system-is-in-title-31-sec-501-512-of-the-usc/msg200826/#msg200826 (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/the-gold-and-silver-money-system-is-in-title-31-sec-501-512-of-the-usc/msg200826/#msg200826)

[Libertarian_Guard]

U.S. Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina, Anne M. Tompkins might have another customer?

Cautioning that the federal dollars in your wallet could soon be little more than green paper backed by broken promises, state Rep. Glen Bradley wants North Carolina to issue its own legal tender backed by silver and gold.

Heck, they're in the same state. It shouldn't be hard to set a court date.



http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/03/17/v-print/1059132/legislator-says-the-state-needs.html