What moves the stock market

[Sparky]

Today's a good day to learn about what moves the stock market. It seems to be a lesson that is never learned. The market is moved by big players trying to manipulate the buy/sell sentiment of the smaller players. Fundamentals only impact the movement over multi-year periods.

The market is up today as a record low homes sales are reported, there is discord over military action in Libya, the world's 3rd largest economy is in shambles as its residents fight for their lives, half of Europe is bankrupt and Portugal's government is expected to collapse, there is unrest and violence across the Middle East, the price of commodities is skyrocketing, and our Congress debates what to do about raising the ceiling on a record debt that is growing out of control.

So what moves markets? All this bad news tells me that the stock market will not have made progress when we look back 5 or 6 years from now. But it tells me nothing about where the market is going today or tomorrow or next week.

I speculate in the market, but I do it knowing that it's manipulated, so when I'm wrong, I can accept it without complaining the market is "wrong". Like a lot of other things these days, it's all part of the ongoing theater.

[Cobalt]

I got out of the market several years ago when the computer trades really kicked in, they make thousands of trades a day chasing a few dollars but because they make so many trades in a day it seems to pay off for those who use them.
The downside of all those computers making the decisions is they don't trade on the fundamentals of a company but on the swing of the trades they themselves are creating.
The news on any given day no longer seems to have the ability to direct the market either up or down at least not for long.
You can watch things that prove the fundamentals no longer control the market just by looking at something like unemployment numbers, they can release really bad numbers showing unemployment is climbing but companies that rely heavily on consumer purchases will be showing gains for the day, it just doesn't make any sense for me to play in a market where it is impossible to make a decision based on facts.

[gunDriller]

Dow movement, Bowel movement - what's the difference ?

[chad]

100% of what i was taught in college no longer applies. everything i was taught is 100% opposite from what is happening now. either 100% of my instructions taught me wrong, or they changed the rules 100% somewhere along the way. either one implies that i have no business being in it any longer.

[Cebu_4_2]

I hear you Chad, I was once semi retired, sat at my desk and played. Some days I would wake up and find I made 5k, sell and be done fore a few days of vacation. Other days not too bad but never lost over 1k in any one day. Then.... As I am in the sky for 21 hours and land I see I lost 40K! Did not understand what was going on, no news, nothing driving it down, I thought I lost my mind. I returned on Turkey day in 2008 and it took me about 3 weeks to realize I had been fucked hard. Spent about 3 more months trying to win the losses back, you know how that worked. No one would believe me when I told them that it was totally rigged but now they openly admit it. All is not lost however I still have about 3K hanging in there worth pennies and still live in my house they just sold at a sheriff sale, sucks that I had paid it off completely 2 times for nothing.

Ahh the good old days, we will all have nothing once they are done with us.

[Spectrism]

There is one other factor in this not yet mentioned. The PPT- plunge protection team.

Yes- there are big players, but they need to be broken down as big bankster/brokers, mutual fund managers, government meddling.

Part of the grand CON game is to keep up appearances until the final curtain fall.

[Sparky]

There is one other factor in this not yet mentioned. The PPT- plunge protection team.

Yes- there are big players, but they need to be broken down as big bankster/brokers, mutual fund managers, government meddling.

Part of the grand CON game is to keep up appearances until the final curtain fall.


Yep, I consider the PPT as a "big player", with a different motivation than banksters and fund managers.

[osoab]

There is one other factor in this not yet mentioned. The PPT- plunge protection team.

Yes- there are big players, but they need to be broken down as big bankster/brokers, mutual fund managers, government meddling.

Part of the grand CON game is to keep up appearances until the final curtain fall.


Yep, I consider the PPT as a "big player", with a different motivation than banksters and fund managers.


The PPT was created for the sole purpose of helping the bankers and fund managers. The motivation for both is identical.

[Sparky]

There is one other factor in this not yet mentioned. The PPT- plunge protection team.

Yes- there are big players, but they need to be broken down as big bankster/brokers, mutual fund managers, government meddling.

Part of the grand CON game is to keep up appearances until the final curtain fall.


Yep, I consider the PPT as a "big player", with a different motivation than banksters and fund managers.


The PPT was created for the sole purpose of helping the bankers and fund managers. The motivation for both is identical.


No, the PPT was created to avoid panic crashes and follow-through selling that would scare people out of the market for a generation. That's why the PPT only protects plunges. The bankers and fund managers, on the other hand, want alternating rallies and plunges for which they have positioned themselves accordingly. The PPT simply keeps the game in play for the others to do their thing. And the PPT is more of a non-profit group. They buy shares when nobody else wants them, and unloads them to get in position to protect the next plunge.

[Cebu_4_2]

And to think all this crap in the ,market on or abouts, hmm let me think past me retirement in 2008 october... THE REMOVAL OF THE FVCKING UPTICK RULE?

[osoab]

There is one other factor in this not yet mentioned. The PPT- plunge protection team.

Yes- there are big players, but they need to be broken down as big bankster/brokers, mutual fund managers, government meddling.

Part of the grand CON game is to keep up appearances until the final curtain fall.


Yep, I consider the PPT as a "big player", with a different motivation than banksters and fund managers.


The PPT was created for the sole purpose of helping the bankers and fund managers. The motivation for both is identical.


No, the PPT was created to avoid panic crashes and follow-through selling that would scare people out of the market for a generation. That's why the PPT only protects plunges. The bankers and fund managers, on the other hand, want alternating rallies and plunges for which they have positioned themselves accordingly. The PPT simply keeps the game in play for the others to do their thing. And the PPT is more of a non-profit group. They buy shares when nobody else wants them, and unloads them to get in position to protect the next plunge.

I know I am using Wiki as a source, but I am lazy.

Working Group on Financial Markets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Group_on_Financial_Markets)


As established by Executive Order 12631, the Working Group consists of:

* The Secretary of the Treasury, or his designee (as Chairman of the Working Group);
* The Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, or his designee;
* The Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, or his designee; and
* The Chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, or his designee.


The Treasury (arm of the banks), The Fed (the banks), the SEC (tools of the bankers), and the CFTC (I think their current foot dragging has been covered enough on the site) are the arms of the PPT. If they are not doing the "banks" bidding, I do not know who else would be at the forefront. As it is today, it probably was the same in 1988. Just another means to funnel public money/debt to prop up the banks and their shenanigans.

[Trinity]

Sparky when you used to plot the 2008 low with the 1974 low and the 1929 low I was sure we were going to track the 1974 low and rebound up and not continue down like in 1929. In fact I had wished you tracked the 2008 low with the 1974 low and the 1932 low instead. Yes I agree the stock market will be dead money for the next 5 years. No big crash just dead money not doing much.