PDA

View Full Version : Emergency plans in Louisville raise eyebrows



Ares
25th March 2011, 05:20 AM
Council members express concern over sanctity of private property rights

Language in Louisville's proposed emergency response plan, which would give the city the power to "commandeer private property" and "seize" buildings in a crisis, has given several of the city's elected leaders pause.

The emergency ordinance, which was supposed to have gotten an up or down vote earlier this month, was instead tabled until April so that the council can figure out how it wants to deal with what one member called the measure's "stark" language.

"I think any time you talk about government seizing private property -- that's not something I'm comfortable with," Councilman Bob Muckle said Tuesday.

Muckle said he understood that in extraordinary circumstances, extraordinary measures must be taken, but he said he wants to hear from the police chief and other city staff on exactly how they envision implementing Louisville's emergency measures.

The subject of municipal crisis management has taken on a special urgency in the wake of Japan's earthquake and tsunami and the resulting nuclear and humanitarian crises.

While Councilman Hank Dalton said it's unlikely Louisville will ever experience a crisis on the scale of what struck Japan or New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina, it's important to enact policy that is crystal clear to the citizenry.

"It's just a sensitivity about what Louisville residents are going to see when they see it," he said. "If you just have the stark language without the context, you don't get that understanding."

In large part, the city's proposed ordinance is fairly straightforward.

It directs the mayor to declare a disaster emergency if the threat of severe damage, injury or loss of life is imminent as the result of a flood, fire, earthquake, storm, hazardous substance spill, civil disturbance, drought, blight or invasion -- among other calamities.

It lays out a line of succession in city government should anyone become incapacitated, allows the city to shut down roads, compel an evacuation and establish a curfew.

In fact, said Louisville Police Chief Bruce Goodman, much of the language was taken from ordinances in other places.

That includes Boulder, which updated its emergency response plan in 2009. Its protocols also give the city the power to "commandeer or use any private property," but doesn't assign it the right to seize anything.

Goodman, who has been pushing Louisville to adopt an emergency preparedness plan for several years, said he understands how some of the draconian language in the ordinance raises "red flags," including a section that empowers city officials to "seize any food, clothing, water or medical supplies necessary to sustain displaced disaster victims."

But he said the real life examples of a temporary takeover of property during an emergency are a lot milder than what the words connote.

"It can be as minor as using a piece of land to park emergency vehicles," Goodman said.

During forest fires, he said, helicopters have filled up buckets from private water sources. In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the federal government commandeered buses to move victims out of the danger zone.

The ordinance calls for the city to reimburse anyone for property taken during a crisis.

"I think in those terms, people understand it," Goodman said.

Judd Golden, chairman of the Boulder chapter of the ACLU, said Louisville has the right and responsibility to prepare itself for a possible disaster. But the ordinance should be open to judicial review in case the city overreaches.

"The government needs to have power, but it doesn't need to have unchecked power," he said. "This can be done in a way that eliminates the potential for abuse."

Louisville Mayor Chuck Sisk agreed, saying that the language in the proposed ordinance caused him immediate concern. He said he will be asking questions of staff next month as to whether the city even needs an emergency preparedness plan or whether what's in place now is sufficient.

"Any time you do something like this, there has to be balancing involved," the mayor said. "I want to make sure we're proactive, but I also want to make sure we're being reasonable."

http://www.dailycamera.com/louisville-news/ci_17681980#ixzz1Hc52ZMs8

dys
25th March 2011, 05:45 AM
Well thankfully the ordinance doesn't give the city the right to seize property, just commandeer it.
So they have that going for them, which is nice.

dys

BrewTech
25th March 2011, 06:35 AM
I've been considering the meaning of the word "understand" in legal terms as it has been discussed on this forum. Of course, most folks associate "understand" with something akin to "intellectual clarity" rather than standing under, as in agreement or support. When reading these particular quotes, a little word substitution (understand/support) yields interesting results:



"It's just a sensitivity about what Louisville residents are going to see when they see it," he said. "If you just have the stark language without the context, you don't get that support."



The ordinance calls for the city to reimburse anyone for property taken during a crisis.

"I think in those terms, people support it," Goodman said.

Seems to make a lot more sense when written that way...

(sorry, a little OT, just wanted to point that out)

mick silver
25th March 2011, 10:36 AM
louisville is a hell hole . i smell the city way before i get there . the women an men running lou are just one more gang that out of controll

Ponce
25th March 2011, 10:39 AM
As I see it........if the city wont then the state will and if the state wont then the government will.......so, no matter what .........we are screwed............and that's why I say that I will die defending my property.

sirgonzo420
25th March 2011, 10:43 AM
I guess Louisville can "pass an ordinance" if it wants to, but it would be NULL and VOID.


From the Bill of Rights from the Kentucky Constitution http://www.lrc.ky.gov/legresou/constitu/002.htm :


Kentucky Constitution
Section 2
Absolute and arbitrary power denied.

Absolute and arbitrary power over the lives, liberty and property of freemen exists nowhere in a republic, not even in the largest majority.
Text as Ratified on: August 3, 1891, and revised September 28, 1891.
History: Not yet amended.

Winston Smith
25th March 2011, 11:02 AM
Kentucky Constitution
Section 244
Wage-earners in industry or of corporations to be paid in money.

All wage-earners in this State employed in factories, mines, workshops, or by corporations, shall be paid for their labor in lawful money. The General Assembly shall prescribe adequate penalties for violations of this section.
Text as Ratified on: August 3, 1891, and revised September 28, 1891.
History: Not yet amended.

sirgonzo420
25th March 2011, 11:06 AM
Kentucky Constitution
Section 244
Wage-earners in industry or of corporations to be paid in money.

All wage-earners in this State employed in factories, mines, workshops, or by corporations, shall be paid for their labor in lawful money. The General Assembly shall prescribe adequate penalties for violations of this section.
Text as Ratified on: August 3, 1891, and revised September 28, 1891.
History: Not yet amended.


Yeah, I'm quite partial to that Section as well.

I'm sure it was instituted to prevent people from being paid in company script...


...of course, now many, MANY people get "paid" in the company script of the Federal Reserve...


Anyway, Sections 2 and 244 are both still valid.

Also, according to 12 USC 411, FRNs can be "redeemed in lawful money on demand".

Winston Smith
25th March 2011, 01:17 PM
Kentucky Constitution
Section 244
Wage-earners in industry or of corporations to be paid in money.

All wage-earners in this State employed in factories, mines, workshops, or by corporations, shall be paid for their labor in lawful money. The General Assembly shall prescribe adequate penalties for violations of this section.
Text as Ratified on: August 3, 1891, and revised September 28, 1891.
History: Not yet amended.


Yeah, I'm quite partial to that Section as well.

I'm sure it was instituted to prevent people from being paid in company script...


...of course, now many, MANY people get "paid" in the company script of the Federal Reserve...


Anyway, Sections 2 and 244 are both still valid.

Also, according to 12 USC 411, FRNs can be "redeemed in lawful money on demand".


I am partial to it also, since i was born in Larue co. kentucky. i always liked showing it to my kinfolk.

Cobalt
25th March 2011, 04:28 PM
<snip>
Goodman, who has been pushing Louisville to adopt an emergency preparedness plan for several years, said he understands how some of the draconian language in the ordinance raises "red flags," including a section that empowers city officials to "seize any food, clothing, water or medical supplies necessary to sustain displaced disaster victims."

But he said the real life examples of a temporary takeover of property during an emergency are a lot milder than what the words connote.

ha ha, yeah what a dumb ass, we believe you really we do

ShortJohnSilver
25th March 2011, 08:44 PM
The subject of municipal crisis management has taken on a special urgency in the wake of Japan's earthquake and tsunami and the resulting nuclear and humanitarian crises.

Is there a large multi-Gigawatt nuke plant near Louisville? A continual source of earthquakes nearby? A very large ocean capable of generating tsunamis?

Perhaps I am unfamiliar with the geography of this region ...

Twisted Titan
26th March 2011, 05:42 AM
<snip>
Goodman, who has been pushing Louisville to adopt an emergency preparedness plan for several years, said he understands how some of the draconian language in the ordinance raises "red flags," including a section that empowers city officials to "seize any food, clothing, water or medical supplies necessary to sustain displaced disaster victims."

But he said the real life examples of a temporary takeover of property during an emergency are a lot milder than what the words connote.

ha ha, yeah what a dumb ass, we believe you really we do



Ask the People in New Orleans about that.......

The ones that still dont have their Guns Back and Ones that still live in Trailers