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Ponce
26th March 2011, 12:01 PM
Like I have been saying sinse last year....... "No Export = No Recovery"... Ponce

A must read article . ================================================== =============


How Can America Create Wealth If Our Industrial Base Is Destroyed? 50,000 Manufacturing Jobs Have Been Lost Every Month Since 2001



Any economy that constantly consumes far more wealth than it produces is eventually going to be in for a very hard fall. Many point to relatively stable GDP numbers as evidence that the U.S. economy is doing okay, but the truth is that we have had to borrow increasingly massive amounts of money to keep GDP numbers up at that level.

The U.S. government is going to run an all-time record deficit of about 1.65 trillion dollars this year and average household debt in the United States has now reached a level of 136% of average household income. But borrowing endless amounts of money and consuming massive amounts of wealth with that borrowed money is a road that leads to economic oblivion.

The only way to have a healthy economy in the long run is to create wealth. But how can America create wealth if our industrial base is being absolutely destroyed? According to Forbes, the United States has lost an average of 50,000 manufacturing jobs per month since China joined the World Trade Organization in 2001. Hundreds of formerly thriving industries in the United States are being totally wiped out. China uses every trick in the book to win trade battles.

They deeply subsidize their domestic industries, they openly steal technology, they blatantly manipulate currency rates and they allow their citizens to be paid slave labor wages. So yes, the products coming from China are cheaper, but in the process tens of thousands of factories in the U.S. are shutting down, millions of jobs are being lost and the ability of America to create wealth is being compromised.

In 2010, the U.S. trade deficit was just a whisker under $500 billion. Much of that trade deficit was with China.

During 2010, we spent $365 billion on goods from China while they only spent $92 billion on goods from us.

Does a 4 to 1 ratio sound like a "fair and balanced" trade relationship to anyone out there?

Our trade deficit with China in 2010 was the largest trade deficit that one country has ever had with another country in the history of the world.

In fact, the U.S. trade deficit with China in 2010 was 27 times larger than it was back in 1990.

Needless to say, that is not a good trend.

Our industrial base and our ability to create wealth is being wiped out so rapidly that it has now become a very serious threat to our national security.

According to Forbes, there is only one steel plant inside the United States that is still capable of producing steel of high enough quality to meet the needs of the U.S. military, and even that plant has been bought by a European company.

Meanwhile, China produced 11 times as much steel as America did last year.

Not only that, China is now the number one supplier of components that are critical to the operation of U.S. defense systems.

How in the world did we let that happen?

So what happens if we have a conflict with China someday?

But of more immediate concern is the loss of jobs that the destruction of our industrial base is causing.

For example, the Ivex Packaging Paper plant in Joliet, Illinois just announced that it is shutting down for good after 97 years in business. 79 good jobs will be lost. Meanwhile, China has become the number one producer of paper products in the entire world.

But China is not just wiping the floor with us when it comes to things like steel and paper.

The truth is that China has now become the world's largest exporter of high technology products. Back in 1998, the United States had 25 percent of the world’s high tech export market and China had just 10 percent. Ten years later, the United States had less than 15 percent and China's share had soared to 20 percent.

So how is China doing it? Well, as noted above, they are pulling every trick that they can think of.

Most Americans think that we have "free trade" with nations such as China. That is a complete and total lie and anyone that believes that we have "free trade" with China does not know what they are talking about.

China subsidizes their domestic industries to such an extreme extent that many global industries no longer even come close to resembling "free markets" as a recent story in Forbes noted....

According to a story in the January 20, 2009 New York Times, government subsidies so thoroughly disrupted pricing in the global market for antibiotics that many western producers had to either move facilities to Asia or exit the business entirely. The reason this might matter to intelligence analysts is that the last U.S. source of key ingredients for antibiotics — a Bristol-Myers Squibb plant in East Syracuse, New York — has now closed, leaving the U.S. dependent on foreign sources in a future conflict.
Our politicians and our business leaders have pursued economic policies that are so self-destructive that it defies explanation.

How in the world could anyone be so stupid?

Since 2001, over 42,000 U.S. factories have closed down for good. Millions of jobs have been lost. The ability of the once great American economic machine to create wealth has been neutered.

The business environment in America is completely and totally pathetic at this point. The number of small businesses that are being created is also way, way down.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, only 403,765 small businesses were created in the 12 months that ended in March 2009. That was down 17.3% from the previous year, and it was the smallest number of small businesses created since records began being kept in 1977.

The truth is that the U.S. economy is dying.

We continue to consume about the same amount of wealth that we always have, but our net worth is declining.

According to the Federal Reserve, more than two-thirds of Americans have seen their net worth decline during this economic downturn. In fact, the Fed says that between 2007 and 2009, the wealth of the average American family declined by 23%.

So if it seems like your family and everyone around you is getting poorer, that is because it really is happening.

We really are becoming poorer as a nation.

We can see evidence of this all around us. Just consider a few of the examples that have been in the news in recent days....

*One school district in the Chicago area is laying off 363 teachers.

*The U.S. Postal Service is offering $20,000 buyouts to thousands of workers as they attempt to slash 7,500 good paying jobs.

*The city of Detroit, once a shining example of middle class America, is now a rotting cesspool of economic decline and it saw its population decline by 25 percent over the decade that recently ended.

Americans are not feeling the full impact of America's industrial decline yet because we have been filling the gap in wealth creation with massive amounts of debt.

In the years since 1975, the United States had run a total trade deficit of 7.5 trillion dollars with the rest of the world. That 7.5 trillion dollars could have gone to support U.S. businesses and U.S. workers, but instead it left the country and went into the hands of foreigners that do not pay taxes.

Therefore, the U.S. government, state governments and our local governments have had to borrow massive amounts of money to make up the difference.

Most people do not realize it, but the destruction of America's industrial base has played a very significant role in the government debt crisis we are facing today.

In addition, the millions upon millions of workers that have lost their jobs as America's industrial base has been destroyed are now a drain on the system. Instead of creating wealth and being involved in economically productive activity, millions of American workers are now totally dependent on the U.S. government for survival.

Do you think that it is just some sort of accident that we have 44 million Americans on food stamps?

Don't you think that a large percentage of those people would actually like to have good jobs that would enable them to sufficiently feed their families?

If we continue on the path that we are currently on we are not going to have much of an economy left.

Not that all trade is bad. Certainly not. For example, trade with Canada is generally a very good thing.

However, the horribly unbalanced and unfair trade relationships that we have with nations such as China are ripping our industrial base apart. Our politicians have not been telling us the truth about what the "global economy" will mean for American workers. Most U.S. workers never realized that globalism would mean that they would be competing for jobs with workers willing to work for one-tenth the pay on the other side of the globe.

Those people that believe that we can indefinitely maintain an economy where we consume far more wealth than we create are completely and totally delusional.

Until the American people wake up and start demanding change from our politicians on these issues, 50,000 (or more) manufacturing jobs will continue to fly out the doors every single month and even more Americans will become dependent on government welfare.

Is that what you want?

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/how-can-america-create-wealth-if-our-industrial-base-is-destroyed-50000-manufacturing-jobs-have-been-lost-every-month-since-2001

tekrunner
26th March 2011, 12:35 PM
Ponce remember the thread where we talked about 3d printing and the democratization of production? That could be a possible solution to the loss of our industrial base. In addition it would put the power of production in the hands of the common man.

I just wanted to add, I use to import parts from China for a particular item I sell online but am able to print it with that makerbot I mentioned earlier. So not only do I not send money to China anymore, I send money to the American company that makes the 3d printer. Infact I've been tweaking my entire business endeavors around not being dependent on China or other imported goods. It's obvious that the dollar is toast and we won't be able to trade them our toilet paper for anything of value.

Ponce
26th March 2011, 01:03 PM
If we were to start today it would take three to four GENERATIONS to look anything like we did twenty years ago .........but........by that time other countries would be three to four generations ahead of us, a good example of this is a commercial by "Ford" where they said "Our cars are as good as Toyota's", only problem is that by the time that the commercial came out Toyota had already come out with still another better car.

First thing that we would have to do is to retrain our teachers as to how to retrain our students because if our future is in the hands of our young ones we are then in deep doodoo. Get rid of the comp at schools and go back to paper and pencil where their brain will have to retrain itself to "think" once again.

Like I said "If we were to start TODAY".....................no way Jose........we are in deep shit.

po boy
26th March 2011, 01:13 PM
As to the title it can't because it uses debt based FED NOTES.

How does one build wealth when in debt? ???

tekrunner
26th March 2011, 01:16 PM
I have a saying, and that's "schools for fools". I entered high school just as the No Child Left with Mind act was being implemented. Schools were just glorified daycare centers and I personally never passed the ninth grade. I would skip school so I could stay home and teach myself and I'm grateful now I didn't spend those years listening to those "teachers" at the government indoctrination centers.
I've always loved history and growing up in school I'd always ask "What if there was another great depression, we'd have to make our own jobs, why don't we study how to do that?" and I was always scolded. Anyways, like I said earlier, schools for fools and I'm not worried about having to "retrain" the teachers if there's enough people that can just teach themselves.

Twisted Titan
26th March 2011, 01:30 PM
The author is navieve at best..

there is no way a sane person could look at all those figuers and not come to the conculsion that the destruction of the industrial base was not by design with high level colusion at key positions of infulence.


All the average person can do know is save what they can in Gold silver and tangibles get ready for bear.



T

the biss
26th March 2011, 01:31 PM
"We're creating a nation of hamburger flippers."
- H. Ross Perot

gunDriller
26th March 2011, 03:51 PM
As to the title it can't because it uses debt based FED NOTES.

How does one build wealth when in debt? ???


buy something with intrinsic value with the money, and then default on the debt.

or get the US government to pay for the debt, like Madoff did - he pleaded guilty to financial fraud, providing zero proof, and raised $70+ Billion for his investors.

money that will be paid for by US citizens, theoretically.

guess who wrote the law saying that a financial crime can be prosecuted, with zero proof, based merely on confession ?

(answer - the Talmud worshippers. clever fiends.)

dys
26th March 2011, 04:16 PM
The author is navieve at best..

there is no way a sane person could look at all those figuers and not come to the conculsion that the destruction of the industrial base was not by design with high level colusion at key positions of infulence.


All the average person can do know is save what they can in Gold silver and tangibles get ready for bear.
T


He won't publish comments with too much truth in them, put it that way. Bad source.

dys

Ponce
26th March 2011, 04:21 PM
EVERYONE has a money making idea but they don't take action on it........ I took action on my idea and made my money..........I have many more ideas that I could make money with......but.......to me retirement means just that............."There is need and then there is greed and I have what I need"...

Santa
26th March 2011, 04:34 PM
I have a saying, and that's "schools for fools". I entered high school just as the No Child Left with Mind act was being implemented. Schools were just glorified daycare centers and I personally never passed the ninth grade. I would skip school so I could stay home and teach myself and I'm grateful now I didn't spend those years listening to those "teachers" at the government indoctrination centers.
I've always loved history and growing up in school I'd always ask "What if there was another great depression, we'd have to make our own jobs, why don't we study how to do that?" and I was always scolded. Anyways, like I said earlier, schools for fools and I'm not worried about having to "retrain" the teachers if there's enough people that can just teach themselves.


Tekrunner, your posts always make me feel a little bit better about the current state of the world.

po boy
26th March 2011, 04:39 PM
As to the title it can't because it uses debt based FED NOTES.

How does one build wealth when in debt? ???


buy something with intrinsic value with the money, and then default on the debt.

or get the US government to pay for the debt, like Madoff did - he pleaded guilty to financial fraud, providing zero proof, and raised $70+ Billion for his investors.

money that will be paid for by US citizens, theoretically.

guess who wrote the law saying that a financial crime can be prosecuted, with zero proof, based merely on confession ?

(answer - the Talmud worshippers. clever fiends.)


I see. As to Made off it seems foolish to confess when there's no proof? He my still have funds stashed,but I don't think it was worth a son.

Ponce you could always come out of retirement and help out that poor lady who hit you up for money.That wouldn't be greedy at all. ;)

beefsteak
26th March 2011, 05:16 PM
As to the title it can't because it uses debt based FED NOTES.

How does one build wealth when in debt? ???


As Glenn Beck said, Friday to a 23 year old male audience questioner, one either acquires, beefs up, or enhances "Human Capital." The bankers and this debt game haven't figured out a way to confiscate human capital. Anything you can couple your smarts to that produces a good or a service? That's always been the way to build personal wealth.

beefsteak

beefsteak
26th March 2011, 05:18 PM
Sorry, I hit thank you by mistake. But I do value the fact that you contributed a response, so you make keep the thank you. ;D




How Can America Create Wealth If Our Industrial Base Is Destroyed?

America [b]DOES NOT[/size]] creates wealth by taxing the labor and accumulated wealth of its people. Everything gets lumped together and is called "an economy". Much media attention is directed to how well the "economy" is doing. If it is doing poorly people get laid off and after two or three years of unemployment then they are no longer considered a part of the "economy" as this model is intended for those who choose to participate no matter the cost to their lives, family structure or financial well-being.

Quite possibly this is the model that has gotten everybody confused. Maybe it is even possible that you might be better off not participating in this mathematical construct. Shrink the "economy" instead and preserve your wealth.

Silver Shield
26th March 2011, 05:25 PM
We got strippers, guns and donuts...

Ponce
26th March 2011, 06:34 PM
Well po boy, I just finished one a couple of days ago...........at the VA the nurses always have a hard time finding my veins to suck my blood from.......so, I made something........it is very simple and all that you have to do is to stick your arm in 4"X4"X16" long box and the nurse would see all the veins that she may need on a monitor... the principal behind this is that your veins are hotter than the rest of you body, because the flow of blood, therefore with my idea they would show up.............I am also wondering if placing another special box over the breast of a woman if any indication of cancer would show up.....as you know cancer is always hotter than the rest of your body...........what I really would like to do is to donate my idea and make no money......."The Ponce Obscure Box?" hahahaahahahahahaah........ by the way, the box can be made for under $100.00 and if made in China for around $30.00.

etc
26th March 2011, 11:06 PM
[i][b]
All the average person can do know is save what they can in Gold silver and tangibles get ready for bear.





Nope, that's not true at all. There is a lot more that the average person can do, a lot more than that.

Horn
27th March 2011, 12:01 AM
Its like asking a vampire to switch to milk.

Dollar fangs.

vacuum
27th March 2011, 12:50 AM
This whole topic depends on what the definition of "wealth" is. One definition is the amount of material things. However, another definition could be the number of people there are. Another one, which I tend to favor, is that wealth is the ability to get a people to believe in something.

For example, a strong leader can create wealth by his presence, his ability to get people to believe in him. Gold, which has luster and beauty, is equivalent to wealth when displayed such as in a temple or on a crown because it causes people to believe in something. A factory is simply a material object and could be created ridiculously easily if it was a common goal in every individual's mind. A morally deficient people however will be intrinsically poor no matter how many factories you give them, because they don't believe in anything. They will seem wealthy for a time but it will not be self-sustaining.

Horn
27th March 2011, 01:08 AM
A morally deficient people however will be intrinsically poor no matter how many factories you give them, because they don't believe in anything. They will seem wealthy for a time but it will not be self-sustaining.


China resembles those remarks, with cheap crap they manufacturer for the world.

Its global.

po boy
27th March 2011, 07:29 AM
As to the title it can't because it uses debt based FED NOTES.

How does one build wealth when in debt? ???


As Glenn Beck said, Friday to a 23 year old male audience questioner, one either acquires, beefs up, or enhances "Human Capital." The bankers and this debt game haven't figured out a way to confiscate human capital. Anything you can couple your smarts to that produces a good or a service? That's always been the way to build personal wealth.

beefsteak


Thanks for the reply Beef, the only issue I see with that while knowledge is power and can work to produce wealth(store of usable goods,materials,knowledge) if one tries to sell these into the market via FRN then that is the bankers game as it then becomes a taxable event further feeding the institutions robbing this countries human capital of their spoils.

One of the best things I can think of is to quit using FRN as a means of exchange and also how to consume less.

Good Day you Beef! ;)

gunDriller
27th March 2011, 07:34 AM
If we were to start today it would take three to four GENERATIONS to look anything like we did twenty years ago .........but........by that time other countries would be three to four generations ahead of us, a good example of this is a commercial by "Ford" where they said "Our cars are as good as Toyota's", only problem is that by the time that the commercial came out Toyota had already come out with still another better car.

depends on the definition of "Start".

most electronics factories (not chip factories) are constructed in less than a year - chip factories take a little longer. that's the way it was in Silicon Valley in the 1980's & the laws of physics haven't changed.

in the US may of the obstructions would be on the administrative side - land-use laws, permits, etc.

po boy
27th March 2011, 07:36 AM
This whole topic depends on what the definition of "wealth" is. One definition is the amount of material things. However, another definition could be the number of people there are. Another one, which I tend to favor, is that wealth is the ability to get a people to believe in something.

For example, a strong leader can create wealth by his presence, his ability to get people to believe in him. Gold, which has luster and beauty, is equivalent to wealth when displayed such as in a temple or on a crown because it causes people to believe in something. A factory is simply a material object and could be created ridiculously easily if it was a common goal in every individual's mind. A morally deficient people however will be intrinsically poor no matter how many factories you give them, because they don't believe in anything. They will seem wealthy for a time but it will not be self-sustaining.


What if people would just believe in themselves,and create a bottom up local economy using trade instead of FRN?
Seems like this top down leadership stuff isn't working because people don't believe those at the top.

Twisted Titan
27th March 2011, 08:47 AM
[i][b]
All the average person can do know is save what they can in Gold silver and tangibles get ready for bear.





Nope, that's not true at all. There is a lot more that the average person can do, a lot more than that.




Well dont keep us waiting with bated breath.........

Horn
27th March 2011, 09:15 AM
What if people would just believe in themselves,and create a bottom up local economy using trade instead of FRN?
Seems like this top down leadership stuff isn't working because people don't believe those at the top.


The leaders are the only ones profiting currently.

The people have been given no reason to believe that they will end up profiting either spiritually or physically,and arriving at the realization that you can't be led there.

lapis
27th March 2011, 09:46 AM
What if people would just believe in themselves,and create a bottom up local economy using trade instead of FRN?

That would be the best solution. But since property taxes have to be paid in FRNs, I don't think we can get out of this system as long as that's the case....the way it's set up now you have to make "money."

Cobalt
27th March 2011, 09:51 AM
For a start just quit buying all that useless China crap, if you want something that is only going to last for one use rent the damn thing.

I constantly shake my head in disbelief, people shop at ChinaMart and then complain about nothing is made here anymore

po boy
27th March 2011, 11:04 AM
What if people would just believe in themselves,and create a bottom up local economy using trade instead of FRN?

That would be the best solution. But since property taxes have to be paid in FRNs, I don't think we can get out of this system as long as that's the case....the way it's set up now you have to make "money."


True as to ad valorem aka property tax must be paid in FRN, the idea is to limit exposure as much as possible via trade with and for anything other than frn as possible.



What if people would just believe in themselves,and create a bottom up local economy using trade instead of FRN?
Seems like this top down leadership stuff isn't working because people don't believe those at the top.


The leaders are the only ones profiting currently.

The people have been given no reason to believe that they will end up profiting either spiritually or physically,and arriving at the realization that you can't be led there.

True words Cobalt.

Ponce
27th March 2011, 11:17 AM
As they made parts for us we will make parts for them.....we will be to bussy trying to survive to do anything else..........besides, the US government will eliminate free thinking.

po boy
27th March 2011, 12:13 PM
As they made parts for us we will make parts for them.....we will be to bussy trying to survive to do anything else..........besides, the US government will eliminate free thinking.


They almost have this already implemented.

Santa
30th March 2011, 06:54 AM
What if people would just believe in themselves,and create a bottom up local economy using trade instead of FRN?

That would be the best solution. But since property taxes have to be paid in FRNs, I don't think we can get out of this system as long as that's the case....the way it's set up now you have to make "money."


Both of you are right on the markmoney.