French vegan baby dies due to mother's vitamin-deficient breast milk

[lapis]

This is so tragic!

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.35c2caa5efa0e183b7b38a2d0e2b7f4 0.71&show_article=1

Two vegans who fed their 11-month-old daughter only mother's milk went on trial in northern France on Tuesday charged with neglect after their baby died suffering from vitamin deficiency.

Sergine and Joel Le Moaligou, whose vegan diet forbids consuming any animal product including eggs and cow's milk, called the emergency services in March 2008 after becoming worried about their baby Louise's listlessness.

When the ambulance arrived at their home in Saint-Maulvis, a small village 150 kilometres (90 miles) north of Paris, the baby was already dead.

The ambulance workers called the police because the child was pale and thin, weighing 5.7 kilos (12.5 pounds) compared to an average eight kilos for her age.

The baby had only been fed on the milk of her mother, who was aged 37 at the time.

An autopsy showed that Louise was suffering from a vitamin A and B12 deficiency which experts say increases a child's sensitivity to infection and can be due to an unbalanced diet.

"The problem of vitamin B12 deficiency could be linked to the mother's diet," said Anne-Laure Sandretto, deputy prosecutor in the city of Amiens where the trial is taking place.

The couple has been charged with "neglect or food deprivation followed by death" and face up to 30 years in prison if convicted.

[Rebel Yarr]

stupid fucks

seriously - you want to be vegan - go for it. but they all do/should know they need to watch it. now- before subjecting your baby to a lifestyle choice that can affect their health lots of checkups. Maybe just use formula until the baby is old enough to make that choice...

[General of Darkness]

stupid fucks

seriously - you want to be vegan - go for it. but they all do/should know they need to watch it. now- before subjecting your baby to a lifestyle choice that can affect their health lots of checkups. Maybe just use formula until the baby is old enough to make that choice...


I totally agree.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Very unfortunate. Many formulas are soy based these days and the high levels of phyto-estrogens can also be very dangerous to a baby's health, with consequences that often don't show up for years or decades. Many diseases and abnormalities that are blamed on "bad genetics" can also (if the effort is made) be traced back to a mothers poor nutrition while the baby is developing in the womb.

[learn2swim]

Very unfortunate. Many formulas are soy based these days and the high levels of phyto-estrogens can also be very dangerous to a baby's health, with consequences that often don't show up for years or decades. Many diseases and abnormalities that are blamed on "bad genetics" can also (if the effort is made) be traced back to a mothers poor nutrition while the baby is developing in the womb.


Could soy products increase the chance of producing male homosexuals?

[Antonio]

Vegetarians have always made me puke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

[Son-of-Liberty]

Very unfortunate. Many formulas are soy based these days and the high levels of phyto-estrogens can also be very dangerous to a baby's health, with consequences that often don't show up for years or decades. Many diseases and abnormalities that are blamed on "bad genetics" can also (if the effort is made) be traced back to a mothers poor nutrition while the baby is developing in the womb.


Could soy products increase the chance of producing male homosexuals?


I think that is a possibility. Could also have an effect on male fertility and female for that matter. Giving estrogen to a baby that should have virtually none is going to have consequences they just don't necessarily show up right away.

[lapis]

Could soy products increase the chance of producing male homosexuals?

I wonder that myself--historically wasn't the statistic for homosexuality less than ten percent of the population? It seems like there's a lot more than that now.

I know one soymilk-drinking family whose son is extremely feminine, and has a high voice. In another family, one of the sons had a cow's milk allergy so he was given soy formula. He has grown up to be quite tall and masculine.

It probably depends on a lot of factors, but I think it's best to steer clear of large amounts of non-fermented soy products.

Beware, a lot of packaged foods now contain soy protein in addition to meat. Look for it in "sausage" pizzas, frozen dinners (like "chicken" pot pie), and even some bread has soy flour. Another way the food manufacturers are hiding food inflation.

[Rebel Yarr]

so don't use soy formula - I think the larger danger than soy is the plastics and medicines leached into so many foods/water supply.


I stay away from soy - but I don't think it is near the danger in development that plastic is.

Soy mimics estrogen - that is not the same thing/danger as far as I have read.

[lapis]

so don't use soy formula - I think the larger danger than soy is the plastics and medicines leached into so many foods/water supply.

According to this mice study, large amounts of vitamin A protected male rats in utero from maternal Bisphenol A exposure. Load up on cod liver oil!

Vitamin A Insufficiency Accelerates the Decrease in the Number of Sperm Induced by an Environmental Disruptor, Bisphenol A, in Neonatal Mice (http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2108/zsj.18.819)

"Retinal acetate has been reported to inhibit the adverse effects of BPA on male mice reproduction."

Abstract

Exposure of neonatal mice to an estrogenic endocrine disruptor, bisphenol A, resulted in a malfunction of the testes when the animals became adults. The effect of bisphenol A was cancelled out by concurrent administration of retinol acetate, a naturally occurring metabolite of vitamin A. In contrast, the effect of endocrine disruption became more severe in mice neonatally exposed to bisphenol A and nursed by mothers fed a vitamin A-deficient diet only a few days before and after parturition. These results clearly show that maternal vitamin A is important for relieving in a baby the effect of endocrine disruption caused by environmental xenoestrogens, and suggest that the changes in the content of vitamin A and similar physiological factors in the habitat may be worth considering in studies on environmental disruptors.

[Son-of-Liberty]

so don't use soy formula - I think the larger danger than soy is the plastics and medicines leached into so many foods/water supply.


I stay away from soy - but I don't think it is near the danger in development that plastic is.

Soy mimics estrogen - that is not the same thing/danger as far as I have read.


While those are also a major concern the big danger with soy is that it is masqueraded as a healthy alternative to meat. Many people consume soy products intentionally in high amounts. Almost all processed and fast foods contain some soy. While something like BPA might be more toxic for the same amount of estrogen mimicking compound it is generally not ingested habitually in large amounts.

BodyRX show - Soy As An Endocrine Disruptor
http://www.methings.com/podshows/9668766

[sunnyandseventy]

I wonder if they did it to kill the child on purpose of if they were just trying to avoid the agri-corporations poisonous food and didn't know better.

[Awoke]

This is so tragic!

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.35c2caa5efa0e183b7b38a2d0e2b7f4 0.71&show_article=1

Two vegans who fed their 11-month-old daughter only mother's milk went on trial in northern France on Tuesday charged with neglect after their baby died suffering from vitamin deficiency.

An autopsy showed that Louise was suffering from a vitamin A and B12 deficiency which experts say increases a child's sensitivity to infection and can be due to an unbalanced diet.

"The problem of vitamin B12 deficiency could be linked to the mother's diet," said Anne-Laure Sandretto, deputy prosecutor in the city of Amiens where the trial is taking place.

The couple has been charged with "neglect or food deprivation followed by death" and face up to 30 years in prison if convicted.



B-12 comes form animal based foods, because B-12 is in the soil, so when animals eat grass, etc, they are eating a Vitamin B-12 rich diet. Vitamin A is animal product based as well.
So yeah, it's possible that the baby was deficient in B-12 because the vegans weren't eating any animal by-products, but it's doubtful that that was what caused the baby's death, imo.

Imprisoning the parents is beyond total fucking ridiculousness.

[sirgonzo420]

I wonder if they did it to kill the child on purpose of if they were just trying to avoid the agri-corporations poisonous food and didn't know better.


I'd say the latter...

This is sad, and horrible that the child died... but how many MILLIONS of babies are "legally" aborted every year?

These parents were trying to raise their child as they saw fit... they didn't premeditate a murder (as would be the case with an abortion).

[Ash_Williams]

Could soy products increase the chance of producing male homosexuals?

One thing I know is you can create male homosexual rats in the lab by stressing out the mother. Something about the stress hormones seems to create little asspounder rats.

Might work the same in humans. Gay kids don't necessarily have gay parents (although it helps), and yet psychologists can apparently tell pretty accurately if the kid is gonna be gay before he's even a toddler. So it could be the stress of the mother affecting conditions in the womb. The kind of crap that stresses rats out is what city people live through every day of their lives - crowds, lack of control, lack of peace and quiet, risk of assault & being on guard, etc. Growing up in the country, a gay kid was pretty much unheard of... I think we had maybe 1 in the school of 400. In the city you'd have 50 in the same school.

As for the dead kid... well there's millions of vegans parents out there doing the same thing and their kids ain't dying. Something doesn't add up. I suspect someone got their panties in a bunch and went all "OMFG these people don't eat the same thing I do and now their kid is DEAD!!!!1111" Something about vegan diets drives people off the deep end.

[undgrd]

I can't believe you guys are debating gay veggies while these idiot parents managed to let their kid die rather than give it a proper diet.

12.5 lbs for an 11 month old is TERRIBLY underweight. Anyone not still throwing rocks at the moon should have known something was wrong and consulted someone about it. Poor kid. :(

[undgrd]

The baby died from months of untreated bronchitis and /or pneumonia.
Vitamin deficiency was only a tiny part of why the baby died.
Leave a respiratory illness untreated in a baby and expect death.
VEGANS ARE NOT IDIOTS !!!!! PEOPLE WHO ARE VEGANS WHO NEGLECT MEDICAL CARE OF THEIR BABY ARE IDIOTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Police believe that vitamin B12 deficiency lowered the baby’s resistance to infection and ultimately caused her to die of pneumonia.

So if the lack of B12 caused the pneumonia and the untreated pneumonia killed the child, how did the lack of proper diet NOT kill the child?

[Twisted Titan]

I dont eat meat

But I dont push it on My Wife and Boy eventually they will come to my side of thinking

These people are royally screwed up and they paid a steep ass price for it.



T

[osoab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQynViAF6Ds

[sunnyandseventy]

I wonder if they did it to kill the child on purpose of if they were just trying to avoid the agri-corporations poisonous food and didn't know better.


I'd say the latter...
This is sad, and horrible that the child died... but how many MILLIONS of babies are "legally" aborted every year?
These parents were trying to raise their child as they saw fit... they didn't premeditate a murder (as would be the case with an abortion).


Exactly.

I'm slowly working my way to being vegetarian. There's a high percentage of veggie/vegan people where I live and they appear to be the healthiest people I've seen.

[Santa]

Nutritional yeast.

[chad]

haven't eaten meat since easter, 1990.

[sirgonzo420]

haven't eaten meat since easter, 1990.


Then why buy all the stoves?

Why cook if you can't cook meat?


:boohoo

[Ares]

As sad as that situation is, just more proof that the body is NOT DESIGNED to live on just vegetables.

Been a meat eater all of my life. Packed on the most muscle when I was in the Navy working out 2 times a day (morning and night) gained 25 lbs in 6 months, all muscle. Went from 160lbs to 185lbs. Definitely miss my early 20's when testosterone was still flowing through my veins from adolescence. Now I have to work harder to get the same amount.

60% of my diet was meat based.(Chicken, Beef, Pork, Fish)
40% was vegetables, and other carbohydrates.

Dated a girl a couple years after the Navy, was quasi-vegan and really didn't approve of me eating meat. So I backed off lost 15 lbs of muscle started getting fat deposits on my stomach and obliques. Keep in mind that I was still working out twice a day. Went back to the 60/40 shed the fat and was ripped again.

I think body chemistry plays the biggest part in it to be honest. Some people bodies can metabolize meat much better than others. At least that's my personal belief on that subject although I have no evidence to support that theory. Just something I've noticed in lifes little journey. :)

[Neuro]

I am actually surprised, no-one has mentioned this allready. But ultimately why should the states have a say in what these parents choose to feed their baby. I think they through their idiot choices payed the ultimate price, they lost their baby. But the parents are not really the legal guardians of the baby. More like the appointed baby-sitters of the state. Of course it is tragic what happened, but if you want a limited state, you have to allow people to do stupid life style choices that will affect their babies negatively too.

[sirgonzo420]

As sad as that situation is, just more proof that the body is NOT DESIGNED to live on just vegetables.


I let animals eat vegetables for me.

And then I eat them.

[Neuro]

As sad as that situation is, just more proof that the body is NOT DESIGNED to live on just vegetables.

Been a meat eater all of my life. Packed on the most muscle when I was in the Navy working out 2 times a day (morning and night) gained 25 lbs in 6 months, all muscle. Went from 160lbs to 185lbs. Definitely miss my early 20's when testosterone was still flowing through my veins from adolescence. Now I have to work harder to get the same amount.

60% of my diet was meat based.(Chicken, Beef, Pork, Fish)
40% was vegetables, and other carbohydrates.

Dated a girl a couple years after the Navy, was quasi-vegan and really didn't approve of me eating meat. So I backed off lost 15 lbs of muscle started getting fat deposits on my stomach and obliques. Keep in mind that I was still working out twice a day. Went back to the 60/40 shed the fat and was ripped again.

I think body chemistry plays the biggest part in it to be honest. Some people bodies can metabolize meat much better than others. At least that's my personal belief on that subject although I have no evidence to support that theory. Just something I've noticed in lifes little journey. :)
Yes some people thrive on a higher percentage of animals. I think this is due to genetics. People in colder countries are adapted to live on a higher percentage of animal food. The very simple reason is a long and cold winter, where if you were not adapted to eat a lot of animal derived food, you would die of starvation. Further you needed a better brain, to be able to store foods and prepare for the winter. In tropical and subtropical climates you just need to be able to go and pick the food. The brain consumes a lot of energy, further it needs fat and proteins as building blocks, and thus needs a concentrated source of it, iow animals.

I was vegetarian for 2 years in the 90's, for largely moral reasons, but I really missed the satisfaction of eating meat.

[Ares]

Yes some people thrive on a higher percentage of animals. I think this is due to genetics. People in colder countries are adapted to live on a higher percentage of animal food. The very simple reason is a long and cold winter, where if you were not adapted to eat a lot of animal derived food, you would die of starvation. Further you needed a better brain, to be able to store foods and prepare for the winter. In tropical and subtropical climates you just need to be able to go and pick the food. The brain consumes a lot of energy, further it needs fat and proteins as building blocks, and thus needs a concentrated source of it, iow animals.

I was vegetarian for 2 years in the 90's, for largely moral reasons, but I really missed the satisfaction of eating meat.

My heritage is that of German ancestry. Definitely not as high north as say Finland, or Sweden. Also live in the northern U.S. I'm about 6 hours south of Canada. So I guess you could say my genetics are more prone towards the consumption of meat. :)

My parents raise chickens (always have) they are egg as well as meat chickens. My uncle raises black Angus cattle, and a neighbor down the road from my parents raise pigs. So I get all the meat I need for a year in August / September time frame without any corporate hands touching it. Even the butcher is a mom and pop shop. I have a garden at my parents house and do canning in the fall.

Growing up out in rural farm land is HUGELY beneficial.

[Awoke]

I really don't have the energy to type up a bunch of text and quotes and all that stuff, but it is absolutely incorrect to state that human require animal by products to live.

The human body is disigned to live without animal by products, as long as you eat properly.

Read "Fasting and eating for health" by Joel Fuhrman. I don't feel like transcribing all his scientific evidence.

[Ares]

I really don't have the energy to type up a bunch of text and quotes and all that stuff, but it is absolutely incorrect to state that human require animal by products to live.

The human body is disigned to live without animal by products, as long as you eat properly.

Read "Fasting and eating for health" by Joel Fuhrman. I don't feel like transcribing all his scientific evidence.


<img src="http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/bigpot6.jpg"/>

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[sirgonzo420]

There will always be people who make poor choices that cause their children to suffer.

If you believe the Bible stuff, this is echoed by the notion of "original sin".

Such is life.


I still think it's sad that these parents are seen as monsters while ACTIVE infanticide is rampant and unabated.

But then again, I'm someone who thinks it's silly to punish Michael Vick for using his own dogs in dogfights, when cows and chickens and everything else are slaughtered for food. (if a cow could chose to fight another cow, or be slaughtered, I'd figure they'd choose the former...).

Not that I think we shouldn't kill/eat animals... just that consistency would be nice.

If we want the State to protect our babies, then let's have them protect them ALL. No more abortions... and if an Amish kid or Jehovah's Witness kid needs a blood transfusion, let's force the parents to get it done! Let's welcome/force the State into every home to make sure every child has whatever levels of B12 (and fluoride, etc) the government deems necessary!

Or, we can let parents manage their own children (as mankind has done for thousands of years) , and come what may.

By the same token, let's be consistent with "animal rights". Either animals have rights or they don't. If they have rights, all meat-eating must be banned and every animal must have equal protection under the law. If we decide that animals are merely animals, and don't have rights as Man does, then let's raise animals to slaughter and eat, and have dominion over them in general.

[Neuro]

I really don't have the energy to type up a bunch of text and quotes and all that stuff, but it is absolutely incorrect to state that human require animal by products to live.

The human body is disigned to live without animal by products, as long as you eat properly.

Read "Fasting and eating for health" by Joel Fuhrman. I don't feel like transcribing all his scientific evidence.
Certainly you could, nowadays, but go and tell that to eskimoes 200 years ago, that they would be much better off on a vegan diet! People are genetically adapted to eating the food that are available to them from their region of origin. If you originate from a high latitude place with long and cold winters, you probably will thrive on a greater proportion of animals derived food in your diet. I can write a book on and prove anything based on articles published in scientific journals if I am selective. The Khazar you mentioned may have ulterior motives perhaps?

[Awoke]

There is no denying that your body will attune to whatever foods are in the area that you live in, but when it is all said and done, mankind can live a perfectly healthy life without eating any animal by-products.
Even the Eskimos could live on veggies alone, if they had access to them all the time.
Since they have adapted over generations, the change back to veggies might take time, but not much.

I don't live a vegan/vegetarian life myself: I eat a ton of venison, moose, bear, fish, etc, but I'm just saying, we don't need it to survive and be healthy. In fact, science shows that we are healthier without it. Animal based proteins are harder for your body to break down and use, and there is a bunch of science behind it that I can't recall off the top of my head.

That's where Fuhrmans book comes in, which I am not willing to transcribe. (And don't have here with me right now)




Ares, just FYI, I can't see whatever it was that you posted with the ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D underneath it. The site must be blocked here. Can't comment till I get home and see it.

[Bullion_Bob]

I figure if something tastes good there's a particularly good reason for it.

Meat tastes good because our ancestors ate it, and it's the reason we're here. Cooked meat tastes even better because less people got sick from eating it, so that's a mental conditioning factor that our brains recognize for survival.


Life continuance scenarios become hard wired, and instinctual. Same deal with fear of snakes, spiders, heights, etc...

I eat organic chicken, and occasionally red meat, and lots of organic vegetables. To me complete denial of meat is pointless. It's some kind of some political uber green movement existence ideology. From a health perspective it makes no sense at all.

Moderation.

If you're going to play games with nutrition, at least know what you're doing if someone else's life depends on it.

[Ares]

Ares, just FYI, I can't see whatever it was that you posted with the Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin underneath it. The site must be blocked here. Can't comment till I get home and see it.

Ahh ok, It probably is blocked because netnanny, websense thinks that site is "offensive" lol. But yeah it's funny. ;D

[Road Runner]

Very tragic & sad. These parents will suffer worse consequences than any court could put on them. If they genuinely thought they were doing right by the child according to what they believed and now realize the child was worse off and their methods didn't work, just the guilt they will suffer will be painful enough.
I don't think these people are a threat to society, so looking at possibly 30yrs in jail? What about the other daughter? It would be interesting to know way more facts.

[lapis]

Only God knows the intent of those parents hearts, and I find it hard to believe they did this on purpose.

I don't think they did it on purpose, but it seems like a lot of vegans (especially the extreme low-fat raw vegans who follow the 811 diet: 80% fruit carbs, 10% fat, 10% protein) have a warped sense of what a normal weight is for infants and children:


Fruitarian Babies (http://www.fruitgod.com/fruitarianbabie.html)



http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb51/fruitbatanne/12cappi-1.jpg


Babies need only good quality milk from their mother or a wet nurse for the first months of their lives.


I agree, but appears that this baby didn't have good quality milk at all, not even close.


A Weighty Matter?

Fruit eating, mother's milk -drinking babies are slim and lean. They appear very different in appearence from babies on other diets.

That's for sure! They look like they're starving.

This is a blog post written by a raw vegan author who decided NOT to raise her daughter that way as an infant based on the nutrition information she discovered:

Raw vegan children (http://www.shazzie.com/life/articles/raw_vegan_children.shtml)

Since 2000, I've had the opportunity to meet thousands of raw foodists. I've also met hundreds of raw children in that time. By far, the children who are vegetarian seem healthier than the vegan children.

These observations led me to research from the ground up childhood nutrition, vegan nutrition and raw food nutrition. I had a very good reason to get it right -- my daughter Evie. I wanted her to be raw for health reasons. I wanted her to be vegan because I'd been vegan for so long.

However, all the while I was researching this information, I saw huge amounts of misinformation being fed to the raw food community. I also saw children with very damaged teeth, stunted growth and developmental problems.

Worryingly, the children of some of those who actively promoted raw food had experienced the worst symptoms. If these children were put on a raw or cooked vegetarian (not vegan) diet, and were given supplements, they caught up. Those who are still raw vegan are still experiencing development and growth issues.