I KNOW that many of you have utter contempt for the Constitution, I can prove it

[midnight rambler]

That's right, you heard me - I'm calling out all you traitors to the Constitution.

It's an historical FACT that the alleged 14th Amendment (the moneychangers' amendment) was NOT *lawfully* ratified per Article V of the Constitution. There's NO changing history! IF this alleged 14th Amendment were in fact in effect then it would completely abrogate the Constitution. The alleged 14th Amendment created a whole new class of citizenship, i.e. 'United States citizen'. Those who profess to be a 'U.S. citizen' adhere to the alleged 14th Amendment, therefore those who profess same wish to abrogate the Constitution. It is incongruent to profess being a 'U.S. citizen' while claiming to support the Constitution for the uS of A. One cannot have it both ways.

It finally dawned on me today that the 'anti-government' types are ALL of these 'U.S. citizens', every last one of 'em, and not vice versa. (yeah, well ok, maybe I'm slow and I realize that some of you are way ahead of me in my thinking here)

So now that you've been apprised of the situation, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to continue to support the fraud, or not? Are you going to renounce that U.S. citizenship of yours (knowing that many of you are 'registered voters'), or are you going to continue to go along to get along?

[sirgonzo420]

That's right, you heard me - I'm calling out all you traitors to the Constitution.

It's an historical FACT that the alleged 14th Amendment (the moneychangers' amendment) was NOT *lawfully* ratified per Article V of the Constitution. There's NO changing history! IF this alleged 14th Amendment were in fact in effect then it would completely abrogate the Constitution. The alleged 14th Amendment created a whole new class of citizenship, i.e. 'United States citizen'. Those who profess to be a 'U.S. citizen' adhere to the alleged 14th Amendment, therefore those who profess same wish to abrogate the Constitution. It is incongruent to profess being a 'U.S. citizen' while claiming to support the Constitution for the uS of A. One cannot have it both ways.

It finally dawned on me today that the 'anti-government' types are ALL of these 'U.S. citizens', every last one of 'em, and not vice versa. (yeah, well ok, maybe I'm slow and I realize that some of you are way ahead of me in my thinking here)

So now that you've been apprised of the situation, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to continue to support the fraud, or not? Are you going to renounce that U.S. citizenship of yours (knowing that many of you are 'registered voters'), or are you going to continue to go along to get along?


How can I renounce a citizenship that was never lawfully mine in the first place?

[midnight rambler]

How can I renounce a citizenship that was never lawfully mine in the first place?


If you're certain you don't have any of those 'U.S. citizen' meathooks in you, if you have taken pains to make sure of that, and you act accordingly, then the OP was not directed towards you.

The OP was directed primarily towards the 'registered voter' members of the forum who suffer the delusion that they will somehow find salvation by participation in the rigged 'electoral' sweepstakes.

[iOWNme]

I am a DE-registered voter....

I have written a letter to my State Senator and Congressman asking them to show me the Law that says i must pay SS, Income tax, medicare and all the other 'meathooks' of the US Citizen fraud. I asked them to reply in a timely manner, which they did not.

Needless to say i have never heard back.

SILENCE IS ACQUIESCENCE.

[madfranks]

I am a DE-registered voter....

I have written a letter to my State Senator and Congressman asking them to show me the Law that says i must pay SS, Income tax, medicare and all the other 'meathooks' of the US Citizen fraud. I asked them to reply in a timely manner, which they did not.

Needless to say i have never heard back.

SILENCE IS ACQUIESCENCE.


So you don't pay any of those taxes anymore? Or did they just ignore your letter yet still take what they want from you? Because if they really did acquiesce, I imagine that you no longer have to pay any of them.

[Horn]

They will close Guantanamo only after they are able to lawfully provide the equivalent on the mainland.

[JDRock]

... i support/ believe in the constitution,as well as all the amendments....all 10 of them. :soap

[YukonCornelius]

Where can I find a good read on the 14th amendment?

In regards to the legality/constitutional/sketchiness

[7th trump]

Where can I find a good read on the 14th amendment?

In regards to the legality/constitutional/sketchiness

If you can find it get the book titled USofA vs US.

The website is no longer and neither is getting the book from them.
Very good read......a very hard read, but worth the money if you can read into legality.

[madfranks]

according to Bacon: A clause in a law which precludes its abrogation, is invalid from the beginning. He also provides: What is without a remedy is valid by the thing itself.


And according to fed.gov if you don't give us your money, we will shoot you and/or put you in prison.

[madfranks]

You don't have to use money. Even if you don't use FRNs or "dead presidents" according to fed.gov you still have to pay them or they'll shoot you and/or put you in prison.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html


Bartering occurs when you exchange goods or services without exchanging money. An example of bartering is a plumber doing repair work for a dentist in exchange for dental services. The fair market value of goods and services received in exchange for goods or services you provide must be included in income in the year received.

[iOWNme]

I am a DE-registered voter....

I have written a letter to my State Senator and Congressman asking them to show me the Law that says i must pay SS, Income tax, medicare and all the other 'meathooks' of the US Citizen fraud. I asked them to reply in a timely manner, which they did not.

Needless to say i have never heard back.

SILENCE IS ACQUIESCENCE.


So you don't pay any of those taxes anymore? Or did they just ignore your letter yet still take what they want from you? Because if they really did acquiesce, I imagine that you no longer have to pay any of them.


I didnt say that. I am on my own course of truth, and am following the Law to do so. I am compiling my documents and facts incase i ever do battle with the beast.

Or when i do battle with the beast. :)


More people should do this. It is your own personal way of finding out that you are not represented or protected by the servants who have sworn an oath. And most certainly not morally obligated to do what the collective tells me is 'right and just'.

[madfranks]

I am a DE-registered voter....

I have written a letter to my State Senator and Congressman asking them to show me the Law that says i must pay SS, Income tax, medicare and all the other 'meathooks' of the US Citizen fraud. I asked them to reply in a timely manner, which they did not.

Needless to say i have never heard back.

SILENCE IS ACQUIESCENCE.


So you don't pay any of those taxes anymore? Or did they just ignore your letter yet still take what they want from you? Because if they really did acquiesce, I imagine that you no longer have to pay any of them.


I didnt say that. I am on my own course of truth, and am following the Law to do so. I am compiling my documents and facts incase i ever do battle with the beast.

Or when i do battle with the beast. :)


More people should do this. It is your own personal way of finding out that you are not represented or protected by the servants who have sworn an oath. And most certainly not morally obligated to do what the collective tells me is 'right and just'.


I'm not trying to be a jerk, but how can you say they acquiesced when they still take money from you? Or did you add that "silence is acquiescence" for some other reason?

[Horn]

Franks>Which limits you to a career where you can barter your goods or services with others without using FRNs. So if you want to be a doctor, an engineer, a professional in any capacity, you can't because they all get paid with dead presidents.

I got into this game for the action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNFuySgwQ30

[madfranks]

Palini, are you now, or have you ever been, a US Citizen? If so, how did you convince the government to let you out of their clutches?

[midnight rambler]

Where can I find a good read on the 14th amendment?

In regards to the legality/constitutional/sketchiness


Straight from the Utah Supreme Court in Dyett v. Turner (1968) - http://www.freedomformula.us/articles/dyett-v-turner-utah-supreme-court-1968/

[po boy]

You don't have to use money. Even if you don't use FRNs or "dead presidents" according to fed.gov you still have to pay them or they'll shoot you and/or put you in prison.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html


Bartering occurs when you exchange goods or services without exchanging money. An example of bartering is a plumber doing repair work for a dentist in exchange for dental services. The fair market value of goods and services received in exchange for goods or services you provide must be included in income in the year received.


Madfranks, if you want a teacher and are willing to put forth the effort and coin this guy will show you how.
I have looked into these subjects and no one seem to provide a clear path, however this guy has a track record to prove it.
If your not interested in fighting or are scared of jail I suggest you forget all about it.

library.georgegordon.com/whois (http://library.georgegordon.com/whois)



George Gordon is the nation's foremost teacher of pro se courtroom strategy and procedure, a pioneer who taught himself the ins and outs of defending himself in court when Big Brother put him out of business. He is an author, lecturer, father and former corporate president. In 1979, he created Barrister's Inn in Boise, Idaho to teach civil law and courtroom strategy and procedure. In 1985, he moved to Isabella, Missouri, and created George Gordon's School of Law, which has been a leader in teaching individuals to successfully represent themselves in the civil court system.

George's experience over the years includes six cases of his that have gone to the U.S. Supreme Court and numerous others that have gone the distance in various state or federal courts. These have ranged from custody cases involving grandparents' rights, through Title 42 suits over civil rights violations by local or state authorities (one of which was even settled in gold), to cases on personal status. Some have even affected national courtroom procedure such as Gordon v. Idaho, 778 F2d 1397, in which the Federal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that an individual no longer has to take an oath or affirmation in court, if his reason for not taking it is based on the fact that the Bible (which they so kindly provide for you to swear on) says that you shouldn't swear oaths. If you add in the cases where students of his were parties to the action, the number goes into the hundreds, if not the thousands. Many questions as to an individual's status and his relationship with various governmental bodies have first been answered in cases involving George or his students.

In addition to teaching pro se litigation, George is also one of the nation's few teachers of the Mosaic Law. In fact, he is one of the only people in the United States, if not the world, to practice this Law in its entirety. This adherence to a Law and its attendant moral code (which was not done away with, no matter what is being taught in the churches out there) has made George a target of, yet virtually untouched by, both governmental and religious groups--something few people can claim.

George is a subsistence farmer using organic methods to practice land stewardship pursuant to the Scriptural land laws. He and his family are living peacefully in the Ozark Mountains of Missouri and are doing so without any Social Security Numbers, marriage licenses, business permits, insurance, innoculations, bank loans, credit cards, public school, government inspections, in fact, without any government intrusion into their lives. He observes the Mosaic Law and does not advocate, nor teach, anarchy, civil disobedience, or racism.

While he has successfully used common law pleadings in both state and federal courts, he is not now, nor has he ever been, associated with the erroneous 'common law courts' that have been springing up over the past few years, nor with such groups as the Montana Freemen or the 'Republic of Texas.' He is an individual and, as such, belongs to no groups. Also, contrary to what has been reported, he is not in hiding, he is not in prison (in fact, he has never been in prison, particularly not over taxes; his only confrontation with the IRS resulted in a win), and (to paraphrase Mark Twain) the reports of his death are greatly exaggerated. He is alive, doing well, and teaching classes in Isabella, Missouri.

[Horn]

Until the topic is made more clear then I have no intention of causing an injury to myself by accepting a status that is as clear as mud.


If you cannot afford a straight jacket, one will be fitted to you.

All illegal alien's will soon be granted second class citizen status.

[mrnhtbr2232]

See, this is what makes a great forum! I've been reading this thread and jumping in and out of sites to get the big picture for over an hour. Hey Midnight Rambler great stuff. I only remember getting this motivated to educate myself back in college. I am not about to tangle on the 14th with anyone but rather wanted to say GSUS is really a goldmine of information and perspective for me. I think this and the Civil War thread are the two best I've seen today and this place rocks. Hats off to the membership.

[Book]

http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/recess_03_18/r32_18254339.jpg

Oh no. Not another thread about being a Freeman.

:D

[midnight rambler]

...and an INFERNAL reprobate traitor happens along and takes a big dump on the thread. Of course this is to be expected from the worthless brainwashed hypocrites who have nothing worthwhile or constructive to contribute and take some twisted, perverse pleasure watching the brave souls who are actually willing to STAND getting beaten up on in THEIR NAME. Of course strictly imo...(btw, not only would I say this to someone's face without compunction, I would be more than happy to give 'em a free nose job if they got lippy with me)

[DMac]

I've read a lot of this stuff.

Unless I am ready to move away from work centers (not to mention quit my job), and/or formally convert to some religion, I see no way this stuff is applicable to real life.

The following statement has been made in many threads such as this:

-Outline steps folks can follow to extricate themselves from the "beast system"

If you truly believe in the cause described by those claiming to no longer be a part of the system, you should be able to outline, step by step, the things required to do so. And no, I am not going to send you or any others a check for this information. Your contribution to mankind will pay for itself.

Thanks in advance. I really want to believe you.

[midnight rambler]

-Outline steps folks can follow to extricate themselves from the "beast system"

There are no two set of circumstances alike just as there are no two people alike. Therefore it's not possible to "make an outline for folks to follow". It has to come from your own heart, the Spirit must move you.

If you find it difficult to make the choice, then perhaps you need to reflect upon that. Just remember that (the perfect law of liberty) is written on your heart and in your mind.

"Choose this day whom ye shall serve..."

[DMac]

-Outline steps folks can follow to extricate themselves from the "beast system"

There are no two set of circumstances alike just as there are no two people alike. Therefore it's not possible to "make an outline for folks to follow". It has to come from your own heart, the Spirit must move you.

If you find it difficult to make the choice, then perhaps you need to reflect upon that. Just remember that (the perfect law of liberty) is written on your heart and in your mind.

"Choose this day whom ye shall serve..."




For me, I have. It includes me leaving this land and buying land rights in another where property rights are still respected. Property rights are all nearly extinct in the US.

I just find discussions like these frustrating as there must be a set of steps (basic or not) one can follow. Especially when communicating to a forum like this where there are a ton of people here that would likely follow if this could be outlined.

[SilverMagnet]

Refusing to pay taxes to the criminals that run the federal government is among the most patriotic of duties of the constitutionally minded citizen.

[7th trump]

-Outline steps folks can follow to extricate themselves from the "beast system"

There are no two set of circumstances alike just as there are no two people alike. Therefore it's not possible to "make an outline for folks to follow". It has to come from your own heart, the Spirit must move you.

If you find it difficult to make the choice, then perhaps you need to reflect upon that. Just remember that (the perfect law of liberty) is written on your heart and in your mind.

"Choose this day whom ye shall serve..."




For me, I have. It includes me leaving this land and buying land rights in another where property rights are still respected. Property rights are all nearly extinct in the US.

I just find discussions like these frustrating as there must be a set of steps (basic or not) one can follow. Especially when communicating to a forum like this where there are a ton of people here that would likely follow if this could be outlined.



If you want to understand how and why your hourly or even salary earnings are taxable look at and begin with the Social Security Act.
I've been asked on this forum by a couple of members to reverse engineer 3121(a) "wages" and 3401(a) "wages". These are the same statutory wages you earn and show up as 3122 and 3402 deductions and withholdings (taxes) on your W2's.
I've been writing this up, but have not posted it as of yet, so please be a little patient with me.
I thoroughly explain how your earnings become as they say "income" when between 1935 and 1939 earnings that were not taxable became taxable and called "income"!
Even if you do use FRN's your earnings are not taxable unless you are enrolled and have the employer report to the SSA via the W3 transmittal how much 3121(a) "wages" you made.
The federal reserve was established in 1933 and the gold standard was lifted leaving fiat paper money the basic tender but for the better part of Americans they werent taxed even using FRN until after 1940. Thats almost 7 full years of the general population using fiat reserve notes with any tax collection for using them.
You will not find it a coincidense that as the more enrolled into Social Security the more 1040 were filed in 1940.

[Book]

I would be more than happy to give 'em a free nose job if they got lippy with me



http://www.securitygeneration.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/tsa-grope.jpg

Link us to one single news story where you punched out a TSA Agent or Police Officer while exercising what you preach in this thread Freeman.

:oo-->

[skid]

I would be more than happy to give 'em a free nose job if they got lippy with me



http://www.securitygeneration.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/tsa-grope.jpg

Link us to one single news story where you punched out a TSA Agent or Police Officer while exercising what you preach in this thread Freeman.

:oo-->

I think he was referring to you

[Book]

I think he was referring to you



:oo-->


That's right, you heard me - I'm calling out all you traitors to the Constitution.

[po boy]

I've read a lot of this stuff.

Unless I am ready to move away from work centers (not to mention quit my job), and/or formally convert to some religion, I see no way this stuff is applicable to real life.

The following statement has been made in many threads such as this:

-Outline steps folks can follow to extricate themselves from the "beast system"

If you truly believe in the cause described by those claiming to no longer be a part of the system, you should be able to outline, step by step, the things required to do so. And no, I am not going to send you or any others a check for this information. Your contribution to mankind will pay for itself.

Thanks in advance. I really want to believe you.



It's funny you reject the spiritual side of processes when one of the biggest clubs you have is Religious exemption.Even the .gov recognizes the Bible in public law 97-280,as does the supreme court.Ever wounder why they make you swear on it before you testify?
Also the Fed you have as an avatar is full of satanic symbolism.

Even if somebody lays it all out for you would you be able to stand up to the system without Dyodd?

Have you ever heard nothing good comes for free?How about the value of free advice?You think education is expensive try ignorance. Did you tell your teachers how they were going to teach you for free? You want freedom on your own terms and someone to spoon feed to you....nice but it doesn't always work like that. If you truly want it you'll give up all to get it,1776 ring a bell.

You can find a primer on the web called Errant Sovereign's Handbook by Agustus Blackstone, on the tube search legal windmills,
George Gordon has an audio library for free to download his schools are not free but possibly the road map you are looking for if you come to the point where it really matters.

Balls in your court hours of good FREE info to listen to and some reading to boot. How bad do you want it?

[po boy]

I'm starting to think Book works for the ADL,SPLC ,.gov possible closet Jew stirring the pot. ;D

Or maybe just a flaming statist who hates that the state he loves and supports(because it's obvious he loves to mock freedom) is run by Jews?

Maybe he just wants people to pay taxes so he can keep collecting SS and we can keep sending aid to Israel so they can go to college.

[Horn]

Looks to me like rambler is getting close to proving his point...

[JDRock]

I'm starting to think Book works for the ADL,SPLC ,.gov possible closet Jew stirring the pot. ;D

Or maybe just a flaming statist who hates that the state he loves and supports(because it's obvious he loves to mock freedom) is run by Jews?

Maybe he just wants people to pay taxes so he can keep collecting SS and we can keep sending aid to Israel so they can go to college.


dont be an @ss...ive met him. the adl splc would LOVE to get their hands on him.....apparently ,so would YOU..hmmmmm :oo-->

[po boy]

I'm starting to think Book works for the ADL,SPLC ,.gov possible closet Jew stirring the pot. ;D

Or maybe just a flaming statist who hates that the state he loves and supports(because it's obvious he loves to mock freedom) is run by Jews?

Maybe he just wants people to pay taxes so he can keep collecting SS and we can keep sending aid to Israel so they can go to college.


dont be an @ss...ive met him. the adl splc would LOVE to get their hands on him.....apparently ,so would YOU..hmmmmm :oo-->

Nambla meeting was it? ;D

Book doesn't appear to like Jews, but dogs on people seeking freedom from the state who funds the very activities he seems to dislike with dollars from taxpayers.Don't like funding those activities then work to solutions instead of dogging on those who wish to see the country return to something closer to what it was intending to be.

I've read plenty of post of his where he has attacked freedom seekers.I actually agree with the plight of the Palestinians, who's funding Israel the state with US citizens funds. I don't like it and so I applaud those who avoid funding such things,Book mocks them.

You either love freedom or you love the state.

Are the citizens going to vote in some good guys and take the country back, or lemme guess take back the country with some pop guns.No they are going to wait for someone else to do SOMETHING because it's to hard or are scared to get drug into court or jail to fight for freedom for themselves.They want to be spoon fed a path to freedom and mock those who stumble on they're own way and say see there isn't any freedom. They don't want SS#'s for themselves or their kids but want tax deductions.
They bitch about the TSA but are to cheap to charter their own plane.They want all the .gov services then complain about the way said .gov provides the services.

Just think of all the people you talk to about the FED or fiat and out of those who will do nothing, then bitch about how a dollar don't buy a dimes worth.Same when you tell people about freedom.

[JDRock]

your credibility diminishes by each post. The point he was making i believe was all the TALK about completely disengaging from the US ...about being a person without government of any kind, when in reality NO ONE is leaving his remote and easy chair just yet :oo--> especially you. Book asked for SPECIFICS about your ACTIONS, not your philosophy :oo-->....and for this he was accused /attacked by you for being adl.....you f'in new guys :oo-->...i suppose next you will accuse hoarder of being closet aipac :lol

[7th trump]

I'm starting to think Book works for the ADL,SPLC ,.gov possible closet Jew stirring the pot. ;D

Or maybe just a flaming statist who hates that the state he loves and supports(because it's obvious he loves to mock freedom) is run by Jews?

Maybe he just wants people to pay taxes so he can keep collecting SS and we can keep sending aid to Israel so they can go to college.


dont be an @ss...ive met him. the adl splc would LOVE to get their hands on him.....apparently ,so would YOU..hmmmmm :oo-->

Nambla meeting was it? ;D

Book doesn't appear to like Jews, but dogs on people seeking freedom from the state who funds the very activities he seems to dislike with dollars from taxpayers.Don't like funding those activities then work to solutions instead of dogging on those who wish to see the country return to something closer to what it was intending to be.

I've read plenty of post of his where he has attacked freedom seekers.I actually agree with the plight of the Palestinians, who's funding Israel the state with US citizens funds. I don't like it and so I applaud those who avoid funding such things,Book mocks them.

You either love freedom or you love the state.

Are the citizens going to vote in some good guys and take the country back, or lemme guess take back the country with some pop guns.No they are going to wait for someone else to do SOMETHING because it's to hard or are scared to get drug into court or jail to fight for freedom for themselves.They want to be spoon fed a path to freedom and mock those who stumble on they're own way and say see there isn't any freedom. They don't want SS#'s for themselves or their kids but want tax deductions.They bitch about the TSA but are to cheap to charter their own plane.They want all the .gov services then complain about the way said .gov provides the services.

Just think of all the people you talk to about the FED or fiat and out of those who will do nothing, then bitch about how a dollar don't buy a dimes worth.Same when you tell people about freedom.

Its impossible to get a tax deduction without having a ssn.

The ssn is the root cause of your taxation.
The ssn is the root cause of government stripping you of Constitutional protections.

And its YOU that has allowed the government to do this to you by consent of volunteering into the social program.
There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.
If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.

[undgrd]

There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.


This is probably why there's a Yes/No checkbox regarding SS for parents to check when their child is born in a hospital.




If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.


Would this be because the gov can't force you to consume goods or services?

[chad]

I'm starting to think Book works for the ADL,SPLC ,.gov possible closet Jew stirring the pot. ;D

Or maybe just a flaming statist who hates that the state he loves and supports(because it's obvious he loves to mock freedom) is run by Jews?

Maybe he just wants people to pay taxes so he can keep collecting SS and we can keep sending aid to Israel so they can go to college.


dont be an @ss...ive met him. the adl splc would LOVE to get their hands on him.....apparently ,so would YOU..hmmmmm :oo-->

Nambla meeting was it? ;D

Book doesn't appear to like Jews, but dogs on people seeking freedom from the state who funds the very activities he seems to dislike with dollars from taxpayers.Don't like funding those activities then work to solutions instead of dogging on those who wish to see the country return to something closer to what it was intending to be.

I've read plenty of post of his where he has attacked freedom seekers.I actually agree with the plight of the Palestinians, who's funding Israel the state with US citizens funds. I don't like it and so I applaud those who avoid funding such things,Book mocks them.

You either love freedom or you love the state.

Are the citizens going to vote in some good guys and take the country back, or lemme guess take back the country with some pop guns.No they are going to wait for someone else to do SOMETHING because it's to hard or are scared to get drug into court or jail to fight for freedom for themselves.They want to be spoon fed a path to freedom and mock those who stumble on they're own way and say see there isn't any freedom. They don't want SS#'s for themselves or their kids but want tax deductions.They bitch about the TSA but are to cheap to charter their own plane.They want all the .gov services then complain about the way said .gov provides the services.

Just think of all the people you talk to about the FED or fiat and out of those who will do nothing, then bitch about how a dollar don't buy a dimes worth.Same when you tell people about freedom.

Its impossible to get a tax deduction without having a ssn.

The ssn is the root cause of your taxation.
The ssn is the root cause of government stripping you of Constitutional protections.

And its YOU that has allowed the government to do this to you by consent of volunteering into the social program.
There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.
If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.



100%, completely, untrue. you can file with an itin all day long.

[madfranks]

Its impossible to get a tax deduction without having a ssn.

The ssn is the root cause of your taxation.
The ssn is the root cause of government stripping you of Constitutional protections.

And its YOU that has allowed the government to do this to you by consent of volunteering into the social program.
There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.
If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.



I never volunteered to have an SSN, my parents made that decision for me. I've talked to SS agents to ask how to withdraw my participation and they've all told me I can't. I even found what I understood to be the "official" opt-out form published by SS and when I sent that in it must have just been ignored or tossed, because nothing's changed. If you know a way to un-volunteer for SS, I really would like to hear it.

[7th trump]

I'm starting to think Book works for the ADL,SPLC ,.gov possible closet Jew stirring the pot. ;D

Or maybe just a flaming statist who hates that the state he loves and supports(because it's obvious he loves to mock freedom) is run by Jews?

Maybe he just wants people to pay taxes so he can keep collecting SS and we can keep sending aid to Israel so they can go to college.


dont be an @ss...ive met him. the adl splc would LOVE to get their hands on him.....apparently ,so would YOU..hmmmmm :oo-->

Nambla meeting was it? ;D

Book doesn't appear to like Jews, but dogs on people seeking freedom from the state who funds the very activities he seems to dislike with dollars from taxpayers.Don't like funding those activities then work to solutions instead of dogging on those who wish to see the country return to something closer to what it was intending to be.

I've read plenty of post of his where he has attacked freedom seekers.I actually agree with the plight of the Palestinians, who's funding Israel the state with US citizens funds. I don't like it and so I applaud those who avoid funding such things,Book mocks them.

You either love freedom or you love the state.

Are the citizens going to vote in some good guys and take the country back, or lemme guess take back the country with some pop guns.No they are going to wait for someone else to do SOMETHING because it's to hard or are scared to get drug into court or jail to fight for freedom for themselves.They want to be spoon fed a path to freedom and mock those who stumble on they're own way and say see there isn't any freedom. They don't want SS#'s for themselves or their kids but want tax deductions.They bitch about the TSA but are to cheap to charter their own plane.They want all the .gov services then complain about the way said .gov provides the services.

Just think of all the people you talk to about the FED or fiat and out of those who will do nothing, then bitch about how a dollar don't buy a dimes worth.Same when you tell people about freedom.

Its impossible to get a tax deduction without having a ssn.

The ssn is the root cause of your taxation.
The ssn is the root cause of government stripping you of Constitutional protections.

And its YOU that has allowed the government to do this to you by consent of volunteering into the social program.
There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.
If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.



100%, completely, untrue. you can file with an itin all day long.

Go read the regs on ITIN's.
If you are a US citizen you must use the SSN.
ITIN's are not used to report 3121(a) "wages" earned towards Social Security credits.


An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (or ITIN) is a United States tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that begins with the number 9 and has a range of 70-88 in the fourth and fifth digit, example 9XX-70-XXXX or 9XX-88-XXXX.[1] Effective 4-1-2011, the 4th and 5th digits range was expanded to include "90-92 and 94-99", i.e. 9XX-95-XXXX.[2] The IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain, a Social Security Number.

ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have Federal tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code.[3] Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.

The program was created in 1996 for the purpose of tax filing of individuals without a social security account number. Receiving an ITIN number does not in itself confer the right to work and receive income in the United States.[4]

[po boy]

your credibility diminishes by each post. The point he was making i believe was all the TALK about completely disengaging from the US ...about being a person without government of any kind, when in reality NO ONE is leaving his remote and easy chair just yet :oo--> especially you. Book asked for SPECIFICS about your ACTIONS, not your philosophy :oo-->....and for this he was accused /attacked by you for being adl.....you f'in new guys :oo-->...i suppose next you will accuse hoarder of being closet aipac :lol


I saw no question about specifics just a picture insinuation that freedom seekers were living in tents. Where was the question or is it your question?

Hell even before his post I showed an example although that did not fit his agenda of painting freedom seekers as homeless or bums as he has done in other threads.Similar tactics are used by said .orgs and .gov.

As to myself well let's see gave up a pilot license, don't use a ssn, dissolved a corporation, don't drive, trade labor silver for services food as much as possible, haven't had a bank account and don't take checks limit exposure to frn as much as possible, de-registered voter, not much of any easy chair here. ???

Also grow some food and have gotten more that a few to do the same as well as turned some on to silver.

What are you doing? Specifically besides bitching about Jews and smiting me or is that the path to freedom.

If you love communism good for you but why not leave those who don't to solutions not ridicule?

7th re-read what you put in bold it says they don't want it does not say they didn't use one for tax deductions.

[chad]

I'm starting to think Book works for the ADL,SPLC ,.gov possible closet Jew stirring the pot. ;D

Or maybe just a flaming statist who hates that the state he loves and supports(because it's obvious he loves to mock freedom) is run by Jews?

Maybe he just wants people to pay taxes so he can keep collecting SS and we can keep sending aid to Israel so they can go to college.


dont be an @ss...ive met him. the adl splc would LOVE to get their hands on him.....apparently ,so would YOU..hmmmmm :oo-->

Nambla meeting was it? ;D

Book doesn't appear to like Jews, but dogs on people seeking freedom from the state who funds the very activities he seems to dislike with dollars from taxpayers.Don't like funding those activities then work to solutions instead of dogging on those who wish to see the country return to something closer to what it was intending to be.

I've read plenty of post of his where he has attacked freedom seekers.I actually agree with the plight of the Palestinians, who's funding Israel the state with US citizens funds. I don't like it and so I applaud those who avoid funding such things,Book mocks them.

You either love freedom or you love the state.

Are the citizens going to vote in some good guys and take the country back, or lemme guess take back the country with some pop guns.No they are going to wait for someone else to do SOMETHING because it's to hard or are scared to get drug into court or jail to fight for freedom for themselves.They want to be spoon fed a path to freedom and mock those who stumble on they're own way and say see there isn't any freedom. They don't want SS#'s for themselves or their kids but want tax deductions.They bitch about the TSA but are to cheap to charter their own plane.They want all the .gov services then complain about the way said .gov provides the services.

Just think of all the people you talk to about the FED or fiat and out of those who will do nothing, then bitch about how a dollar don't buy a dimes worth.Same when you tell people about freedom.

Its impossible to get a tax deduction without having a ssn.

The ssn is the root cause of your taxation.
The ssn is the root cause of government stripping you of Constitutional protections.

And its YOU that has allowed the government to do this to you by consent of volunteering into the social program.
There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.
If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.



100%, completely, untrue. you can file with an itin all day long.

Go read the regs on ITIN's.
If you are a US citizen you must use the SSN.
ITIN's are not used to report 3121(a) "wages" earned towards Social Security credits.


An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (or ITIN) is a United States tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that begins with the number 9 and has a range of 70-88 in the fourth and fifth digit, example 9XX-70-XXXX or 9XX-88-XXXX.[1] Effective 4-1-2011, the 4th and 5th digits range was expanded to include "90-92 and 94-99", i.e. 9XX-95-XXXX.[2] The IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain, a Social Security Number.

ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have Federal tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code.[3] Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.

The program was created in 1996 for the purpose of tax filing of individuals without a social security account number. Receiving an ITIN number does not in itself confer the right to work and receive income in the United States.[4]



nope. any u.s. citizen can easily get an itin, they just don't advertise it. to get one, you must first obtain a passport. to do this without having a ss number:

To obtain a US Passport without a SSN you will need to mail in a completed DS-11 US Passport Application form with fees, and you will need to include a reissued "Long Form Original Certified Birth Certificate With A Raised Seal". If any part of the DS-11 form asks you for a SSN it is legal under federal guidelines established for the purposes of obtaining a passport to put "000-00-0000." Feel free to call the US federal government's passport division to double check.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html

once you have done this and have received a passport, the irs, must under federal law, grant you a itin. they use the passport number.

i know this is true for an absolute fact because my brother-in-law and sister have done it 2 times.

[7th trump]

Its impossible to get a tax deduction without having a ssn.

The ssn is the root cause of your taxation.
The ssn is the root cause of government stripping you of Constitutional protections.

And its YOU that has allowed the government to do this to you by consent of volunteering into the social program.
There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.
If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.



I never volunteered to have an SSN, my parents made that decision for me. I've talked to SS agents to ask how to withdraw my participation and they've all told me I can't. I even found what I understood to be the "official" opt-out form published by SS and when I sent that in it must have just been ignored or tossed, because nothing's changed. If you know a way to un-volunteer for SS, I really would like to hear it.

What if I told you that by participating that you lose certain protectional Constitutional amendments?
What if I gave you an official government document that outlines what amendments are blocked from your accessing them from participating?
Have you ever read Admimistrative reg 301.6109-1(d)?

Once you are in the system they cannot reverse it, but that doesnt say you cannot stop participating in earning 3121(a) "wages". You may even have to use the number for other reporting requirements such as dividends and stocks that are tied directly to commerce.

[7th trump]

I'm starting to think Book works for the ADL,SPLC ,.gov possible closet Jew stirring the pot. ;D

Or maybe just a flaming statist who hates that the state he loves and supports(because it's obvious he loves to mock freedom) is run by Jews?

Maybe he just wants people to pay taxes so he can keep collecting SS and we can keep sending aid to Israel so they can go to college.


dont be an @ss...ive met him. the adl splc would LOVE to get their hands on him.....apparently ,so would YOU..hmmmmm :oo-->

Nambla meeting was it? ;D

Book doesn't appear to like Jews, but dogs on people seeking freedom from the state who funds the very activities he seems to dislike with dollars from taxpayers.Don't like funding those activities then work to solutions instead of dogging on those who wish to see the country return to something closer to what it was intending to be.

I've read plenty of post of his where he has attacked freedom seekers.I actually agree with the plight of the Palestinians, who's funding Israel the state with US citizens funds. I don't like it and so I applaud those who avoid funding such things,Book mocks them.

You either love freedom or you love the state.

Are the citizens going to vote in some good guys and take the country back, or lemme guess take back the country with some pop guns.No they are going to wait for someone else to do SOMETHING because it's to hard or are scared to get drug into court or jail to fight for freedom for themselves.They want to be spoon fed a path to freedom and mock those who stumble on they're own way and say see there isn't any freedom. They don't want SS#'s for themselves or their kids but want tax deductions.They bitch about the TSA but are to cheap to charter their own plane.They want all the .gov services then complain about the way said .gov provides the services.

Just think of all the people you talk to about the FED or fiat and out of those who will do nothing, then bitch about how a dollar don't buy a dimes worth.Same when you tell people about freedom.

Its impossible to get a tax deduction without having a ssn.

The ssn is the root cause of your taxation.
The ssn is the root cause of government stripping you of Constitutional protections.

And its YOU that has allowed the government to do this to you by consent of volunteering into the social program.
There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.
If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.



100%, completely, untrue. you can file with an itin all day long.

Go read the regs on ITIN's.
If you are a US citizen you must use the SSN.
ITIN's are not used to report 3121(a) "wages" earned towards Social Security credits.


An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (or ITIN) is a United States tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that begins with the number 9 and has a range of 70-88 in the fourth and fifth digit, example 9XX-70-XXXX or 9XX-88-XXXX.[1] Effective 4-1-2011, the 4th and 5th digits range was expanded to include "90-92 and 94-99", i.e. 9XX-95-XXXX.[2] The IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain, a Social Security Number.

ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have Federal tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code.[3] Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.

The program was created in 1996 for the purpose of tax filing of individuals without a social security account number. Receiving an ITIN number does not in itself confer the right to work and receive income in the United States.[4]



nope. any u.s. citizen can easily get an itin, they just don't advertise it. to get one, you must first obtain a passport. to do this without having a ss number:

To obtain a US Passport without a SSN you will need to mail in a completed DS-11 US Passport Application form with fees, and you will need to include a reissued "Long Form Original Certified Birth Certificate With A Raised Seal". If any part of the DS-11 form asks you for a SSN it is legal under federal guidelines established for the purposes of obtaining a passport to put "000-00-0000." Feel free to call the US federal government's passport division to double check.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html

once you have done this and have received a passport, the irs, must under federal law, grant you a itin. they use the passport number.

i know this is true for an absolute fact because my brother-in-law and sister have done it 2 times.

Try using the ITIN when working towards SS quarterly credits.
The system will kick it out and someone will be calling to verify your ssn or saying to go to the nearest IRS or SS office to get a ssn or even change the ITIN to a ssn designation in the system.

Beside I'm not talking about getting a passport. the subject is about getting out of the system and not using a ssn all together.
ITIN means....... idividual TAXPAYER identification number

[chad]

I'm starting to think Book works for the ADL,SPLC ,.gov possible closet Jew stirring the pot. ;D

Or maybe just a flaming statist who hates that the state he loves and supports(because it's obvious he loves to mock freedom) is run by Jews?

Maybe he just wants people to pay taxes so he can keep collecting SS and we can keep sending aid to Israel so they can go to college.


dont be an @ss...ive met him. the adl splc would LOVE to get their hands on him.....apparently ,so would YOU..hmmmmm :oo-->

Nambla meeting was it? ;D

Book doesn't appear to like Jews, but dogs on people seeking freedom from the state who funds the very activities he seems to dislike with dollars from taxpayers.Don't like funding those activities then work to solutions instead of dogging on those who wish to see the country return to something closer to what it was intending to be.

I've read plenty of post of his where he has attacked freedom seekers.I actually agree with the plight of the Palestinians, who's funding Israel the state with US citizens funds. I don't like it and so I applaud those who avoid funding such things,Book mocks them.

You either love freedom or you love the state.

Are the citizens going to vote in some good guys and take the country back, or lemme guess take back the country with some pop guns.No they are going to wait for someone else to do SOMETHING because it's to hard or are scared to get drug into court or jail to fight for freedom for themselves.They want to be spoon fed a path to freedom and mock those who stumble on they're own way and say see there isn't any freedom. They don't want SS#'s for themselves or their kids but want tax deductions.They bitch about the TSA but are to cheap to charter their own plane.They want all the .gov services then complain about the way said .gov provides the services.

Just think of all the people you talk to about the FED or fiat and out of those who will do nothing, then bitch about how a dollar don't buy a dimes worth.Same when you tell people about freedom.

Its impossible to get a tax deduction without having a ssn.

The ssn is the root cause of your taxation.
The ssn is the root cause of government stripping you of Constitutional protections.

And its YOU that has allowed the government to do this to you by consent of volunteering into the social program.
There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.
If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.



100%, completely, untrue. you can file with an itin all day long.

Go read the regs on ITIN's.
If you are a US citizen you must use the SSN.
ITIN's are not used to report 3121(a) "wages" earned towards Social Security credits.


An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (or ITIN) is a United States tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that begins with the number 9 and has a range of 70-88 in the fourth and fifth digit, example 9XX-70-XXXX or 9XX-88-XXXX.[1] Effective 4-1-2011, the 4th and 5th digits range was expanded to include "90-92 and 94-99", i.e. 9XX-95-XXXX.[2] The IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain, a Social Security Number.

ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have Federal tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code.[3] Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.

The program was created in 1996 for the purpose of tax filing of individuals without a social security account number. Receiving an ITIN number does not in itself confer the right to work and receive income in the United States.[4]



nope. any u.s. citizen can easily get an itin, they just don't advertise it. to get one, you must first obtain a passport. to do this without having a ss number:

To obtain a US Passport without a SSN you will need to mail in a completed DS-11 US Passport Application form with fees, and you will need to include a reissued "Long Form Original Certified Birth Certificate With A Raised Seal". If any part of the DS-11 form asks you for a SSN it is legal under federal guidelines established for the purposes of obtaining a passport to put "000-00-0000." Feel free to call the US federal government's passport division to double check.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html

once you have done this and have received a passport, the irs, must under federal law, grant you a itin. they use the passport number.

i know this is true for an absolute fact because my brother-in-law and sister have done it 2 times.

Try using the ITIN when working towards SS quarterly credits.
The system will kick it out and someone will be calling to verify your ssn or saying to go to the nearest IRS or SS office to get a ssn.

Beside I'm not talking about getting a passport. the subject is about getting out of the system and not using a ssn all together.


you claimed that you cannot claim a tax credit for a child without a social security number. i have shown you that you can + how to d it. that you are now changing the argument to talking about claiming social security credits someday, that i cannot help. goodbye.

[7th trump]

I'm starting to think Book works for the ADL,SPLC ,.gov possible closet Jew stirring the pot. ;D

Or maybe just a flaming statist who hates that the state he loves and supports(because it's obvious he loves to mock freedom) is run by Jews?

Maybe he just wants people to pay taxes so he can keep collecting SS and we can keep sending aid to Israel so they can go to college.


dont be an @ss...ive met him. the adl splc would LOVE to get their hands on him.....apparently ,so would YOU..hmmmmm :oo-->

Nambla meeting was it? ;D

Book doesn't appear to like Jews, but dogs on people seeking freedom from the state who funds the very activities he seems to dislike with dollars from taxpayers.Don't like funding those activities then work to solutions instead of dogging on those who wish to see the country return to something closer to what it was intending to be.

I've read plenty of post of his where he has attacked freedom seekers.I actually agree with the plight of the Palestinians, who's funding Israel the state with US citizens funds. I don't like it and so I applaud those who avoid funding such things,Book mocks them.

You either love freedom or you love the state.

Are the citizens going to vote in some good guys and take the country back, or lemme guess take back the country with some pop guns.No they are going to wait for someone else to do SOMETHING because it's to hard or are scared to get drug into court or jail to fight for freedom for themselves.They want to be spoon fed a path to freedom and mock those who stumble on they're own way and say see there isn't any freedom. They don't want SS#'s for themselves or their kids but want tax deductions.They bitch about the TSA but are to cheap to charter their own plane.They want all the .gov services then complain about the way said .gov provides the services.

Just think of all the people you talk to about the FED or fiat and out of those who will do nothing, then bitch about how a dollar don't buy a dimes worth.Same when you tell people about freedom.

Its impossible to get a tax deduction without having a ssn.

The ssn is the root cause of your taxation.
The ssn is the root cause of government stripping you of Constitutional protections.

And its YOU that has allowed the government to do this to you by consent of volunteering into the social program.
There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.
If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.



100%, completely, untrue. you can file with an itin all day long.

Go read the regs on ITIN's.
If you are a US citizen you must use the SSN.
ITIN's are not used to report 3121(a) "wages" earned towards Social Security credits.


An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (or ITIN) is a United States tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that begins with the number 9 and has a range of 70-88 in the fourth and fifth digit, example 9XX-70-XXXX or 9XX-88-XXXX.[1] Effective 4-1-2011, the 4th and 5th digits range was expanded to include "90-92 and 94-99", i.e. 9XX-95-XXXX.[2] The IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain, a Social Security Number.

ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have Federal tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code.[3] Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.

The program was created in 1996 for the purpose of tax filing of individuals without a social security account number. Receiving an ITIN number does not in itself confer the right to work and receive income in the United States.[4]



nope. any u.s. citizen can easily get an itin, they just don't advertise it. to get one, you must first obtain a passport. to do this without having a ss number:

To obtain a US Passport without a SSN you will need to mail in a completed DS-11 US Passport Application form with fees, and you will need to include a reissued "Long Form Original Certified Birth Certificate With A Raised Seal". If any part of the DS-11 form asks you for a SSN it is legal under federal guidelines established for the purposes of obtaining a passport to put "000-00-0000." Feel free to call the US federal government's passport division to double check.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html

once you have done this and have received a passport, the irs, must under federal law, grant you a itin. they use the passport number.

i know this is true for an absolute fact because my brother-in-law and sister have done it 2 times.

Try using the ITIN when working towards SS quarterly credits.
The system will kick it out and someone will be calling to verify your ssn or saying to go to the nearest IRS or SS office to get a ssn.

Beside I'm not talking about getting a passport. the subject is about getting out of the system and not using a ssn all together.


you claimed that you cannot claim a tax credit for a child without a social security number. i have shown you that you can + how to d it. that you are now changing the argument to talking about claiming social security credits someday, that i cannot help. goodbye.
Chad, sorry, but you didnt claim/show no such thing by using a ITIN.
If I'm following you correctly you are saying that by using an ITIN you have skirted around the requirement of disclosing the childs SSN all the while getting the deduction?
I'm saying you cannot get the deduction without disclosing the childs/dependent SSN whether or not you use a ITIN or SSN for yourself or the child. Either way the dependent is in the system.
You proved nothing really.

[cthulu]

The real question is this: Does the constitution trump private ownership? Because as I understand it, everything is privately owned by a few families anyway, including dc, city of london, and rome. There's a lot of hooting and hollering about private ownership, so my guess is the constitution is dead.

[Libertytree]

That's right, you heard me - I'm calling out all you traitors to the Constitution.

It's an historical FACT that the alleged 14th Amendment (the moneychangers' amendment) was NOT *lawfully* ratified per Article V of the Constitution. There's NO changing history! IF this alleged 14th Amendment were in fact in effect then it would completely abrogate the Constitution. The alleged 14th Amendment created a whole new class of citizenship, i.e. 'United States citizen'. Those who profess to be a 'U.S. citizen' adhere to the alleged 14th Amendment, therefore those who profess same wish to abrogate the Constitution. It is incongruent to profess being a 'U.S. citizen' while claiming to support the Constitution for the uS of A. One cannot have it both ways.

It finally dawned on me today that the 'anti-government' types are ALL of these 'U.S. citizens', every last one of 'em, and not vice versa. (yeah, well ok, maybe I'm slow and I realize that some of you are way ahead of me in my thinking here)

So now that you've been apprised of the situation, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to continue to support the fraud, or not? Are you going to renounce that U.S. citizenship of yours (knowing that many of you are 'registered voters'), or are you going to continue to go along to get along?


Midnight Rambler...... With all due respect, I agree with and stand with you in most all of your past thoughts and posts but this one I can't, it kinda rubs me the wrong way my friend, as I know that we are ultimately on the same side. Maybe it was the framing of your header and your initial intro line but to me it just ain't right.

There's a lot of us that either don't have the mental IQ, understanding to distinguish the myriad of loopholes, linguistics, legalese to accomplish what you are admonishing us for. It is very WRONG of you to say that we have contempt for the Constitution when you know that any of us would stand beside you and even die for or with you if it came right down to it, in defense of the Constitution.

As I just said in another thread, I reckon I am a common son of a bitch and not as learned as some here and elsewhere but for you to question what is in my heart and mind and to insinuate or accuse me/us of being tantamount enemies of the Constitution is not right and I have to call you out on this one and ask you for a retraction or rephrasing.

I would welcome a similar post on a sheeple forum but not this on this forum and I guess I'm asking for some clarity here.

Thank you.

[Book]

As to myself well let's see gave up a pilot license, don't use a ssn, dissolved a corporation, don't drive, trade labor silver for services food as much as possible, haven't had a bank account and don't take checks limit exposure to frn as much as possible, de-registered voter, not much of any easy chair here. ???



http://www.myhomelessstory.net/clwedit070608_29658c.jpg

http://images.usatoday.com/news/gallery/terr925/homeless.jpg

These guys also don't have a Social Security card or bank account or car either. They also say WILL WORK FOR FOOD according to their cardboard sign. You, instead, in the post above, loftily call it trading labor for food. I imagine the Public Library provides free internet access and hot water at taxpayer expense. How are these flag-waving Sovereign Freemen actually different than any other homeless bum?

You actually self-identify as being Po Boy here.

:dunno just askin'

[po boy]

Well everyone works for food some way or another don't they?

Still funding those Israelis war on the Palestinians eh Book.

[JDRock]

bait ^^^ :oo-->

[po boy]

bait ^^^ :oo-->

Bait or the truth? How does one eat with out working this is news to me.
Still waiting for your specifics if you had any or were you just calling me out JD.
Your credibility is diminishing lol.

The F'ing newb

[Book]

As to myself well let's see gave up a pilot license, don't use a ssn, dissolved a corporation, don't drive, trade labor silver for services food as much as possible, haven't had a bank account and don't take checks limit exposure to frn as much as possible, de-registered voter, not much of any easy chair here. ???



http://www.myhomelessstory.net/clwedit070608_29658c.jpg

http://images.usatoday.com/news/gallery/terr925/homeless.jpg

These guys also don't have a Social Security card or bank account or car either. They also say WILL WORK FOR FOOD according to their cardboard sign. You, instead, in the post above, loftily call it trading labor for food. I imagine the Public Library provides free internet access and hot water at taxpayer expense. How are these flag-waving Sovereign Freemen actually different than any other homeless bum?

You actually self-identify as being Po Boy here.

:dunno just askin'






I saw no question about specifics just a picture insinuation that freedom seekers were living in tents. Where was the question or is it your question?



How are these flag-waving Sovereign Freemen actually different than any other homeless bum?

:oo--> that's a question about specifics

[7th trump]

bait ^^^ :oo-->

Bait or the truth? How does one eat with out working this is news to me.
Still waiting for your specifics if you had any or were you just calling me out JD.
Your credibility is diminishing lol.

The F'ing newb



They work and eat the same way it was before 1935 when Social Security or its number wasnt around.

You people just dont get it do you. The feds know exactly what you earn because the employer sends a W3 transmittal because you wish to participate and earn credits towards a federal social program.
These credits are measured using a standard hourly unit called a 3121(a) "wage".
The W3 transmittal shows the exact same amount of 3121(a) "wages" as the W2.
Now, as law is written, if you earn 3121(a) "wages", you desire to someday retire, and get a government check every month.
Well what happens if you decide that you do not want to participate in a federal retirement program via the administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) (nobody here knows just how much authority an ADMINISTRATIVE reg has) that has no mandatory participation clause?
Do you think the employer can or will be sending in that W3 transmittal showing just how much 3121(a) "wages" you earned towards a government program that you elected to not participate?
Hell no the employer is not going to be submitting that W3. No 3121(a)"wages" earned means no W3 transmittal can be reporting to the feds because no statutory "wages" were ever legally earned therefore your pay is treated just as it was before 1935. No deductions or taxes taken out period!
If the employer does deduct and withhold at 30% you now have a tort in law where you can surely bring suit.

[po boy]

It's your pic are they the only freemen you know I can't answer for them as I don't know them.

What are their names Book? Did not see in your pic where it says they have no SSN or are these more of your assumptions.

In post 21 of this thread I pointed out one example of a common law freeman who even claims to have a house.

So Book do you work for food or are you non homeless bum who doesn't have to produce anything in return for your meals?

Everyone who works for food is a homeless bum, or is it everyone who doesn't work for fiat is a bum.

Trading labor for FRN= ok
Trading labor for necessities for survival=homeless bum ;D

[po boy]

bait ^^^ :oo-->

Bait or the truth? How does one eat with out working this is news to me.
Still waiting for your specifics if you had any or were you just calling me out JD.
Your credibility is diminishing lol.

The F'ing newb



They work and eat the same way it was before 1935 when Social Security or its number wasnt around.

You people just dont get it do you. The feds know exactly what you earn because the employer sends a W3 transmittal because you wish to participate and earn credits towards a federal social program.
These credits are measured using a standard hourly unit called a 3121(a) "wage".
The W3 transmittal shows the exact same amount of 3121(a) "wages" as the W2.
Now, as law is written, if you earn 3121(a) "wages", you desire to someday retire, and get a government check every month.
Well what happens if you decide that you do not want to participate in a federal retirement program via the administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) (nobody here knows just how much authority an ADMINISTRATIVE reg has) that has no mandatory participation clause?
Do you think the employer can or will be sending in that W3 transmittal showing just how much 3121(a) "wages" you earned towards a government program that you elected to not participate?
Hell no the employer is not going to be submitting that W3. No 3121(a)"wages" earned means no W3 transmittal can be reporting to the feds because no statutory "wages" were ever legally earned therefore your pay is treated just as it was before 1935. No deductions or taxes taken out period!
If the employer does deduct and withhold at 30% you now have a tort in law where you can surely bring suit.

Why not even fill out the w-4 in the first place, or even better yet offer to work under private contract for ASE? :conf:

[Book]

I've read a lot of this stuff.

Unless I am ready to move away from work centers (not to mention quit my job), and/or formally convert to some religion, I see no way this stuff is applicable to real life.

The following statement has been made in many threads such as this:

-Outline steps folks can follow to extricate themselves from the "beast system"

If you truly believe in the cause described by those claiming to no longer be a part of the system, you should be able to outline, step by step, the things required to do so. And no, I am not going to send you or any others a check for this information. Your contribution to mankind will pay for itself.

Thanks in advance. I really want to believe you.



Exactly.

[Glass]

Its impossible to get a tax deduction without having a ssn.

The ssn is the root cause of your taxation.
The ssn is the root cause of government stripping you of Constitutional protections.

And its YOU that has allowed the government to do this to you by consent of volunteering into the social program.
There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.
If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.



I never volunteered to have an SSN, my parents made that decision for me. I've talked to SS agents to ask how to withdraw my participation and they've all told me I can't. I even found what I understood to be the "official" opt-out form published by SS and when I sent that in it must have just been ignored or tossed, because nothing's changed. If you know a way to un-volunteer for SS, I really would like to hear it.


I doubt you would get a response from them. I think you just use normal commercial practices to notice the other party of your intent. That notice should be sent by registered post with a signature required for collection. The notice should also include an activating clause along the lines of "non response is aquiescence". Then after the time has expired you could send them a notice of default or something similar. Not sure if default is the right word but it could be. You may not need to send them anything further anyway.

Question is would they pay attention to it. This is always the derision you get from people who don't want this to be tried by people.

I would like to give some input to this discussion but I don't want the information to get buried by thread dillutors, misdirectors etc, of which there seems to be a couple operating here.

Can I suggest people take a look at Winston Shrouts seminar at Kelowna in BC. Not sure of the date it was done but there are a couple of sources out there for it. You can find web links and torrent links. We are talking a lot of hours of video. Perhaps 12 hours or there abouts. The torrents will include copies of the paperwork he is explaining during the seminars. The web links only have the video, No documents.

I have watched a lot of his other material and I found this seminar gave the main principles PLUS it filled in some blanks that were left from other seminars he has done.

Key points:
If you knew commerce better you could use the techniques he describes which use their system to your own advantage.
You can use commercial techniques for negotiable instruments to settle Govt claims against you (or your registered SSN person) depending how you conceptialise who you are - a tax payer or a free man caught up in a wealth confiscating system.
FRN's are negotiable instruments but they are not the only ones out there and if you can identify a negotiable instrument you can commandeer it for your own purposes using commercially legal techniques
The commercial techniques he describes are nothing more than the techniques they use against you and a better understanding of them enables you to turn it around and hold your own.
Legal and lawful principles do come into play and have been used by them for 400+ years. You can also use these to your advantage if you can get your head around them
The constitution was to establish a corporation into which the 13 colonies would place their debt so as to avoid state bankruptcy. It is not a magical document.
He confirms what has been posted on Gim1, Gim2 and I think here before. That the Founding Fathers were mostly all agents of the Crown, being esquires etc.
The Civil war was fought to secure the unliened lands of the south to be used as surety for the bankruptcy of the northern states and the southern states refused earlier attempts to get them to sign over their land so they were over thrown by war.
The US is bankrupt and operates in bankruptcy. This includes you. Well documented by Congress and the courts. see HJR 192.
The US is an english terroritory and it has always been an english territory, just like Canada and Australia, NZ etc. It has never been an independent nation.

Strawman and Redemption movements and concepts are close to being right but the understanding of what the techniques expoused by people discussing these is not quite right. A lot of people are close but are getting a bit sidetracked by enthusiasm and a misunderstanding of what the paperwork is doing for them - people like me for instance. Someone who has a good background knowledge of the strawman, redemption, claim of right material should be able to make a few new connections with what they have read on those topics and what Winston talks about in this seminar.

Specifically the Claim of Right concepts. Winston does not mention these by name but he does talk about the concept of making your own Tenancy Agreement which, based on his description I now think is also mistakenly called a "Claim of Right" by the subscribers to the redemption theories. The Tenancy Agreement is between you, the tenant and the Queen, the owner of everything in the US, Canada, Australia, NZ etc. His explanation of this comes somewhere in the second half of the set of videos and when I heard it, the connection to the Claim of Right material became much clearer for me.

I have expoused this Claim of Right stuff myself in dsicussions on this and the earlier forums. I have not done the process myself although I did prepare my documents. I will now change them because the CoR I did is potentially treasonous if I send it out as is.

I have mentioned Prince Leonard of Hutt River Province and have originally thought his declarations were a Claim of Right, Then I thought it was something else altogether when I discovered he is a high level Freemason. Now I consider his declaration was a new Tenancy Agreement between him and the Queen. He has never been overturned although they did try to get him to back down. They cannot do anything because the paperwork he did is now law between him and the Queen and to interfer with the Queen is treasonous.

I think there is a written transcript of the seminars on the web. If I can find it I should be able to quote what Winston says on these topics and hopefully people won't have to watch 12 hours of video to find the right spot. If you have an interest it is worth watching the whole thing but have a pen and paper handy to make lots of notes.

[7th trump]

Its impossible to get a tax deduction without having a ssn.

The ssn is the root cause of your taxation.
The ssn is the root cause of government stripping you of Constitutional protections.

And its YOU that has allowed the government to do this to you by consent of volunteering into the social program.
There is no clause in the SS Act stating all americans have to participate.
If that were true then Social Security would have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court when it went up up for debate.
Administrative regulation 301.6109-1(d) specifically states that Social Security is voluntary to participate.



I never volunteered to have an SSN, my parents made that decision for me. I've talked to SS agents to ask how to withdraw my participation and they've all told me I can't. I even found what I understood to be the "official" opt-out form published by SS and when I sent that in it must have just been ignored or tossed, because nothing's changed. If you know a way to un-volunteer for SS, I really would like to hear it.


I doubt you would get a response from them. I think you just use normal commercial practices to notice the other party of your intent. That notice should be sent by registered post with a signature required for collection. The notice should also include an activating clause along the lines of "non response is aquiescence". Then after the time has expired you could send them a notice of default or something similar. Not sure if default is the right word but it could be. You may not need to send them anything further anyway.

Question is would they pay attention to it. This is always the derision you get from people who don't want this to be tried by people.

I would like to give some input to this discussion but I don't want the information to get buried by thread dillutors, misdirectors etc, of which there seems to be a couple operating here.

Can I suggest people take a look at Winston Shrouts seminar at Kelowna in BC. Not sure of the date it was done but there are a couple of sources out there for it. You can find web links and torrent links. We are talking a lot of hours of video. Perhaps 12 hours or there abouts. The torrents will include copies of the paperwork he is explaining during the seminars. The web links only have the video, No documents.

I have watched a lot of his other material and I found this seminar gave the main principles PLUS it filled in some blanks that were left from other seminars he has done.

Key points:
If you knew commerce better you could use the techniques he describes which use their system to your own advantage.
You can use commercial techniques for negotiable instruments to settle Govt claims against you (or your registered SSN person) depending how you conceptialise who you are - a tax payer or a free man caught up in a wealth confiscating system.
FRN's are negotiable instruments but they are not the only ones out there and if you can identify a negotiable instrument you can commandeer it for your own purposes using commercially legal techniques
The commercial techniques he describes are nothing more than the techniques they use against you and a better understanding of them enables you to turn it around and hold your own.
Legal and lawful principles do come into play and have been used by them for 400+ years. You can also use these to your advantage if you can get your head around them
The constitution was to establish a corporation into which the 13 colonies would place their debt so as to avoid state bankruptcy. It is not a magical document.
He confirms what has been posted on Gim1, Gim2 and I think here before. That the Founding Fathers were mostly all agents of the Crown, being esquires etc.
The Civil war was fought to secure the unliened lands of the south to be used as surety for the bankruptcy of the northern states and the southern states refused earlier attempts to get them to sign over their land so they were over thrown by war.
The US is bankrupt and operates in bankruptcy. This includes you. Well documented by Congress and the courts. see HJR 192.
The US is an english terroritory and it has always been an english territory, just like Canada and Australia, NZ etc. It has never been an independent nation.

Strawman and Redemption movements and concepts are close to being right but the understanding of what the techniques expoused by people discussing these is not quite right. A lot of people are close but are getting a bit sidetracked by enthusiasm and a misunderstanding of what the paperwork is doing for them - people like me for instance. Someone who has a good background knowledge of the strawman, redemption, claim of right material should be able to make a few new connections with what they have read on those topics and what Winston talks about in this seminar.

Specifically the Claim of Right concepts. Winston does not mention these by name but he does talk about the concept of making your own Tenancy Agreement which, based on his description I now think is also mistakenly called a "Claim of Right" by the subscribers to the redemption theories. The Tenancy Agreement is between you, the tenant and the Queen, the owner of everything in the US, Canada, Australia, NZ etc. His explanation of this comes somewhere in the second half of the set of videos and when I heard it, the connection to the Claim of Right material became much clearer for me.

I have expoused this Claim of Right stuff myself in dsicussions on this and the earlier forums. I have not done the process myself although I did prepare my documents. I will now change them because the CoR I did is potentially treasonous if I send it out as is.

I have mentioned Prince Leonard of Hutt River Province and have originally thought his declarations were a Claim of Right, Then I thought it was something else altogether when I discovered he is a high level Freemason. Now I consider his declaration was a new Tenancy Agreement between him and the Queen. He has never been overturned although they did try to get him to back down. They cannot do anything because the paperwork he did is now law between him and the Queen and to interfer with the Queen is treasonous.

I think there is a written transcript of the seminars on the web. If I can find it I should be able to quote what Winston says on these topics and hopefully people won't have to watch 12 hours of video to find the right spot. If you have an interest it is worth watching the whole thing but have a pen and paper handy to make lots of notes.

So the Revolutionary War never happened and the Declaration of Independence from England was never written for these "Tenancy Agreements" to have any legal standing?
Never could understand Winston Shrouts concept when the DoI has already written 300+ years ago.
I think Winston came up with his concept to play with the notion of remaining in commerce and acting as the "People" and nothing to do with actually getting out of the social system all together. Matter of fact I know thats his concept and thats not a good concept when you are not in any position to dictate what is and what is not.
America wasnt associated with communism/socialism until Roosevelt joined the good ole USofA in the ILO ( a communist front organization) to eventually usher in Social Security (global communism disguised as socialism) which is the crux to taxation on your private property (labor) here in America and abroad. Social Security is nothing more than the means of progressive taxation (1 of the 10 planks of communism).
Whats odd about this whole Shrout concept is that Winston bases his theory on the strawmen via the SSN which never existed until 1935. So the question is whats Winstons opinion about Americans and their strawmen before 1935 because America was around a few hundred years before 1935.
IMHO Winston is puppeteering the devil and Jesus to stay in commerce. And we all know you cannot serve two masters!

[po boy]

I'm glad you said 7th he along with the creditors in commerce , Tim Turner , and the claim of right stuff just leads on further into commerce.There was a front called pilot connection which was outed as a dis info scam/sting op run by .gov.
Supposedly Tim Turner was working for a Florida prosecutor.
Freeman on the land isn't the same as a common law freeman.

If you want freedom from the state stay out of commerce.

[JDRock]

I've read a lot of this stuff.

Unless I am ready to move away from work centers (not to mention quit my job), and/or formally convert to some religion, I see no way this stuff is applicable to real life.

The following statement has been made in many threads such as this:

-Outline steps folks can follow to extricate themselves from the "beast system"

If you truly believe in the cause described by those claiming to no longer be a part of the system, you should be able to outline, step by step, the things required to do so. And no, I am not going to send you or any others a check for this information. Your contribution to mankind will pay for itself.

Thanks in advance. I really want to believe you.



Exactly.


here are even MORE specifics that po, seems unable to remember us asking.... :oo-->

[DMac]

That's right, you heard me - I'm calling out all you traitors to the Constitution.

It's an historical FACT that the alleged 14th Amendment (the moneychangers' amendment) was NOT *lawfully* ratified per Article V of the Constitution. There's NO changing history! IF this alleged 14th Amendment were in fact in effect then it would completely abrogate the Constitution. The alleged 14th Amendment created a whole new class of citizenship, i.e. 'United States citizen'. Those who profess to be a 'U.S. citizen' adhere to the alleged 14th Amendment, therefore those who profess same wish to abrogate the Constitution. It is incongruent to profess being a 'U.S. citizen' while claiming to support the Constitution for the uS of A. One cannot have it both ways.

It finally dawned on me today that the 'anti-government' types are ALL of these 'U.S. citizens', every last one of 'em, and not vice versa. (yeah, well ok, maybe I'm slow and I realize that some of you are way ahead of me in my thinking here)

So now that you've been apprised of the situation, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to continue to support the fraud, or not? Are you going to renounce that U.S. citizenship of yours (knowing that many of you are 'registered voters'), or are you going to continue to go along to get along?


Midnight Rambler...... With all due respect, I agree with and stand with you in most all of your past thoughts and posts but this one I can't, it kinda rubs me the wrong way my friend, as I know that we are ultimately on the same side. Maybe it was the framing of your header and your initial intro line but to me it just ain't right.

There's a lot of us that either don't have the mental IQ, understanding to distinguish the myriad of loopholes, linguistics, legalese to accomplish what you are admonishing us for. It is very WRONG of you to say that we have contempt for the Constitution when you know that any of us would stand beside you and even die for or with you if it came right down to it, in defense of the Constitution.

As I just said in another thread, I reckon I am a common son of a bitch and not as learned as some here and elsewhere but for you to question what is in my heart and mind and to insinuate or accuse me/us of being tantamount enemies of the Constitution is not right and I have to call you out on this one and ask you for a retraction or rephrasing.

I would welcome a similar post on a sheeple forum but not this on this forum and I guess I'm asking for some clarity here.

Thank you.


I'm with Libertytree and would appreciate some detailed responses rather than insults. If you are being genuine MR, why the vitriolic rhetoric against the only people that would be willing to hear you out in the first place? Your OP is quite slanderous.











I've read a lot of this stuff.

Unless I am ready to move away from work centers (not to mention quit my job), and/or formally convert to some religion, I see no way this stuff is applicable to real life.

The following statement has been made in many threads such as this:

-Outline steps folks can follow to extricate themselves from the "beast system"

If you truly believe in the cause described by those claiming to no longer be a part of the system, you should be able to outline, step by step, the things required to do so. And no, I am not going to send you or any others a check for this information. Your contribution to mankind will pay for itself.

Thanks in advance. I really want to believe you.



Exactly.


"Every case is different."

Every person's details are different yet were are all in the same boat - Per the OP, all are US Citizens due to the "illegal 14th Amendment". What is the process to fix this?

7th Trump,

If you believe in what you are writing so passionately why must you persist to be so condescending? You are quite an ironic character. Steadfast in your beliefs in Christ, yet aspire to none of his characteristics.

An analogy that comes to mind when reading these threads would be like me shouting at my friends, "you must own gold and silver to protect yourself!" They would reply, "how". So I shout back "you moron we all cant get it the exact same way! Read this 1400 page book on it! You moron why haven't you read it yet! You traitor to the people!!!"

If you are not ready to walk through this process, continuing the mental masturbation in arguing random pieces of the puzzle is a waste of everyones' time.

I own 2 Blacks Law dictionaries. 5th ed and 8th ed.

I own and read The Red Amendment.

While I found it full of interesting knowledge, attempting to become a state citizen is just going to paint a target on your back.

[po boy]

Jd rock,

If you read the post I made to Dmac and were willing to do your own research I gave some considerations.
Everyone's situations are different and so each person's step will be at their own pace. Some don't want to leave commerce and some do it will dictate the choice they will have to make.

You could start by learning about the common law by reading Blackstone's commentaries on the common law and the book of Hebrews.You could also listen to George Gordons common law series on his web site for free!There is literally 60+ hours of audio
which is a good primer to what one can do.

Of course you won't as you are not truly interested.

So again what are you doing an easy question you haven't answered.

[po boy]

While I found it full of interesting knowledge, attempting to become a state citizen is just going to paint a target on your back.


Just talking to people about sound money paints a target on your back.

[DMac]

While I found it full of interesting knowledge, attempting to become a state citizen is just going to paint a target on your back.


Just talking to people about sound money paints a target on your back.




Not nearly as big a target as trying to convince them to not pay taxes.

[Book]

You could start by learning about the common law by reading Blackstone's commentaries on the common law and the book of Hebrews. You could also listen to George Gordons common law series on his web site for free! There is literally 60+ hours of audio
which is a good primer to what one can do.



:oo-->

[po boy]

While I found it full of interesting knowledge, attempting to become a state citizen is just going to paint a target on your back.


Just talking to people about sound money paints a target on your back.




Not nearly as big a target as trying to convince them to not pay taxes.


Are you scared or determined?

[DMac]

While I found it full of interesting knowledge, attempting to become a state citizen is just going to paint a target on your back.


Just talking to people about sound money paints a target on your back.




Not nearly as big a target as trying to convince them to not pay taxes.


Are you scared or determined?




Strategic.

[po boy]

While I found it full of interesting knowledge, attempting to become a state citizen is just going to paint a target on your back.


Just talking to people about sound money paints a target on your back.



Not nearly as big a target as trying to convince them to not pay taxes.


Are you scared or determined?




Strategic.


Here a quickie
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbdpTYocoQ0&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbdpTYocoQ0&feature=player_embedded)

[Book]

Here's a quickie



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6q37n7GDCY

[DMac]

Per the OP, all are US Citizens due to the "illegal 14th Amendment". What is the process to fix this?

I thought I had pointed out the 15 Stat 249 remedy to the 14th amendment trespass.

You can find it here

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwsllink.html


Isn't it odd that someone searching for a particular tree cannot find it for the forest that is placed in their way.

If there is no trespass then there is no remedy. If there is a trespass then a remedy has been given. You need to know of no other "procedure" than this. Anyone looking for a procedure that will work is searching for a solution to a problem that does not exist. Your time would be better occupied by going back to sleep.



More condescension. Big surprise.

[DMac]

palani,

Do you pay taxes?

[midnight rambler]

palani,

Do you pay taxes?


Is it possible to pay anything since Roosevelt removed substance from money?

Is this another dream of yours, to be able to pay your bills again?


That's right, it's not possible to 'pay' a debt with a debt. It is reasonable to question the sanity of anyone who thinks that's it is possible to 'pay' a debt with a debt.

[Book]

http://media.onsugar.com/files/2010/03/09/4/304/3040631/90aa66f237ab9fff_secessionists.jpg

[midnight rambler]

your credibility diminishes by each post. The point he was making i believe was all the TALK about completely disengaging from the US ...about being a person without government of any kind, when in reality NO ONE is leaving his remote and easy chair just yet :oo--> especially you. Book asked for SPECIFICS about your ACTIONS, not your philosophy :oo-->....and for this he was accused /attacked by you for being adl.....you f'in new guys :oo-->...i suppose next you will accuse hoarder of being closet aipac :lol


There's at least one reprobate troll soiling this tread, with another appearing to emulate him.

Some have a pure, abiding love of the state they cannot adequately express, so instead they attack others who want nothing to do with the state. (here's a clue: the state and the de jure government are not the same)

[JDRock]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now where's my funny pic?


ummm...your avatar.

[po boy]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now where's my funny pic?


ummm...your avatar.


Were you ever going to answer the questions I ask of you or do follow your man friend Books lead?lol
Don't forget about your credibility! :ROFL:

[Horn]

During World War II fighter pilots – both British and American – carried British gold sovereign coins in case they were downed during battle.

http://british-coins.org/gold-sovereign-coins

[Book]

Years ago on GiM I posted about my being done with licenses and registrations and started with my car to test things out.



http://www.informationliberation.com/files/c22815875_240X180.jpg

Police Seize 'Sovereign Citizen' License Plate
Movement's Members Claim Diplomatic Immunity

March 11, 2010

INDIANAPOLIS -- Pendleton police have seized a license plate of a so-called "sovereign citizen," a growing group of Indiana residents who claim to be outside the law. Police said the plate was going to be placed on a vehicle by a self-proclaimed diplomat in lieu of a state-issued plate. Members of the sovereign citizen movement contend that they no longer have to pay taxes, claiming their homes as embassies and using identification cards that show them as diplomats, 6News' Rafael Sanchez reported.

Pendleton Police Chief Marc Farrer called such proclamations both illegitimate and illegal, and said that anyone driving with such plates will be ticketed and have their vehicle towed. The plate was turned over to the FBI. The Secretary of State's office said about 10 people every month ask to put a seal on a document so that they can claim freedom from taxes. Former federal prosecutor Larry Mackey, who helped to convict Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols in the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995, said Nichols claimed he was a "sovereign citizen."

"He would carry out his beliefs by having a license plate that said UCC Chapter 9, and thereby think that he was exempt from licensing his vehicle. He would send mail with the U.S. flag stamp upside down to demonstrate his protest against tax laws," Mackey said. "There are people who get engaged in this warfare against the federal government … that simply are not well-adjusted." Despite Nichols' association with the movement, not all sovereign citizens support domestic terrorism. Those who Sanchez talked to said they draw their beliefs from the Bible and U.S. Constitution.

Many claim that the statements within the papers they provide are enforceable because of a state seal placed on the material, but state officials said that in reality, that seal is placed on any number of documents and doesn't make what's on the documents true. Indiana is not the only state seeing an uptick in sovereign citizens. In February, four men were convicted in Missouri for buying and selling fraudulent credentials related to the movement. In March 2009, federal authorities arrested four men in Las Vegas in a similar operation.

Some people are paying between $900 and $2,100 to become members of a sovereign citizens group.

"It is really, at the bottom, silliness. It's people being unfortunately selfish to the point of putting themselves and families at risk," Mackey said. "By declaring yourself a sovereign citizen, it does nothing but frankly get your name on a file with the (Internal Revenue Service)."

Linky (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/22813692/detail.html)

:oo--> out on bail again Vaughn?

[jimswift]

I thought I had pointed out the 15 Stat 249 remedy to the 14th amendment trespass.

You can find it here

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwsllink.html


Ah, finally found it...



15 Statutes at Large, Chapter 249 (section 1), enacted July 27 1868

Chap. CCXLIX. ---An Act concerning the Rights of American Citizens in foreign States

Whereas the rights of expatriation is a nature and inherent right of all people, indispensable to the enjoyment of the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; and whereas in the recognition of this principle this government has freely received emigrants from all nations, and invested them with the right of citizenship; and whereas it is claimed that such American citizens, with their descendants, are subjects of foreign states, owing allegiance to the government thereof; and whereas it is necessary to the maintenance of public peace that this claim of foreign allegiance should be promptly and finally disavowed; Thereof.

Be it enacted by the Senator and the House of Representatives of the United States of American in Congress assembled, That any declaration, instruction, opinion, order, or decision, of any officers of is government which denies., restricts , impairs or questions the rights of expatriation , is hereby declared inconsistent with the fundamental principles of this government.

[Horn]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy, you have to realize its gonna be next to impossible to pass this case off onto people who harbor a latent slave chain fetishes.

http://www.imagesource.com/Doc/IS0/Media/TR4_WATERMARKED/2/0/b/b/IS167-050.jpg

[ximmy]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy, you have to realize its gonna be next to impossible to pass this case off onto people who harbor a latent slave chain fetishes.

http://www.imagesource.com/Doc/IS0/Media/TR4_WATERMARKED/2/0/b/b/IS167-050.jpg


Or maybe anyone who enjoys clean clothes, housing, running water, electricity... all paid for with FRN's ... all taxed... ::)

[po boy]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy, you have to realize its gonna be next to impossible to pass this case off onto people who harbor a latent slave chain fetishes.

http://www.imagesource.com/Doc/IS0/Media/TR4_WATERMARKED/2/0/b/b/IS167-050.jpg


That will be till the state they love turns them to hamburger. Some people love to be told what to do and when to do it.

[po boy]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy, you have to realize its gonna be next to impossible to pass this case off onto people who harbor a latent slave chain fetishes.

http://www.imagesource.com/Doc/IS0/Media/TR4_WATERMARKED/2/0/b/b/IS167-050.jpg


Or maybe anyone who enjoys clean clothes, housing, running water, electricity... all paid for with FRN's ... all taxed... ::)


You mean frn are the only way to have those things? Stop the presses.

[Book]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy...



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ay9VJUft2tE/S_7T182YhVI/AAAAAAAABKo/VJKAWa3579M/s1600/bum.jpg

...why do "sovereign citizens" always look just like any other lazy homeless bum except for the Law Dictionary in their greasy brown paper bag?

:dunno

[ximmy]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy, you have to realize its gonna be next to impossible to pass this case off onto people who harbor a latent slave chain fetishes.

http://www.imagesource.com/Doc/IS0/Media/TR4_WATERMARKED/2/0/b/b/IS167-050.jpg


Or maybe anyone who enjoys clean clothes, housing, running water, electricity... all paid for with FRN's ... all taxed... ::)


You mean frn are the only way to have those things? Stop the presses.


Your right... I left out those who are purposely unemployed, living in mom's basement, using her electricity, plumbing, eating her food, etc... my bad... ::)

[Horn]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy, you have to realize its gonna be next to impossible to pass this case off onto people who harbor a latent slave chain fetishes.

http://www.imagesource.com/Doc/IS0/Media/TR4_WATERMARKED/2/0/b/b/IS167-050.jpg


Or maybe anyone who enjoys clean clothes, housing, running water, electricity... all paid for with FRN's ... all taxed... ::)


If you can't avoid it, that's no reason to support the oppositions view in this case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz7IjXu0DfQ

[po boy]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy, you have to realize its gonna be next to impossible to pass this case off onto people who harbor a latent slave chain fetishes.

http://www.imagesource.com/Doc/IS0/Media/TR4_WATERMARKED/2/0/b/b/IS167-050.jpg


Or maybe anyone who enjoys clean clothes, housing, running water, electricity... all paid for with FRN's ... all taxed... ::)


You mean frn are the only way to have those things? Stop the presses.


Your right... I left out those who are purposely unemployed, living in mom's basement, using her electricity, plumbing, eating her food, etc... my bad... ::)

Ye without imagination, a product of indoctrination.

[jimswift]

I imagine the next question is, what are the steps necessary to expatriate from the U.S. to one of the several states?

I'll start it off with an easy one...

1. unregister to vote
2.
3.
4.

[Carl]

What if a person never registered?

[JDRock]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy, you have to realize its gonna be next to impossible to pass this case off onto people who harbor a latent slave chain fetishes.

http://www.imagesource.com/Doc/IS0/Media/TR4_WATERMARKED/2/0/b/b/IS167-050.jpg


Or maybe anyone who enjoys clean clothes, housing, running water, electricity... all paid for with FRN's ... all taxed... ::)


You mean frn are the only way to have those things? Stop the presses.


Your right... I left out those who are purposely unemployed, living in mom's basement, using her electricity, plumbing, eating her food, etc... my bad... ::)


you nailed it thanx :lol

[Horn]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy...



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ay9VJUft2tE/S_7T182YhVI/AAAAAAAABKo/VJKAWa3579M/s1600/bum.jpg

...why do "sovereign citizens" always look just like any other lazy homeless bum except for the Law Dictionary in their greasy brown paper bag?

:dunno


I'll stand beside him before I stand next those who's sum of power is contemptuous ridicule

[midnight rambler]

You can tell when the reprobates are getting their collectivist ox gored, 'cause that's when they howl the loudest. lol

[po boy]

I'll stand beside him before I stand next those who's sum of power is contemptuous ridicule Contemptuous ridicule is all that the likes of DA1984, among others, had left after debate on the old board.

At least Book's ad-hominem posts are funny with relevant pics and quips. He's much easier to tolerate than some of the older versions.


I think one of his last posts was something to the effect of I'm your master then he turned tail and ran.

[Book]

Or maybe anyone who enjoys clean clothes, housing, running water, electricity... all paid for with FRN's ... all taxed... ::)



http://justelite.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/020fdgdfgfdgfdg_pics.jpg

SOVEREIGN FREEMAN SEEKING SWF FOR ROMANTIC WALKS IN THE PARK, CAMPING, PICNICS, AND LOTS OF FRESH-AIR FREEDOM PURSUANT TO OUR GOD-GIVEN CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. MUST POSSESS BIG BOOBS AND THE NINTH EDITION OF THE BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY.

[po boy]

Or maybe anyone who enjoys clean clothes, housing, running water, electricity... all paid for with FRN's ... all taxed... ::)



http://justelite.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/020fdgdfgfdgfdg_pics.jpg

SOVEREIGN FREEMAN SEEKING SWF FOR ROMANTIC WALKS IN THE PARK, CAMPING, PICNICS, AND LOTS OF FRESH-AIR FREEDOM PURSUANT TO OUR GOD-GIVEN CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. MUST POSSESS BIG BOOBS AND A BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY.


Book you forgot which edition, get it straight.

[DMac]

You can tell when the reprobates are getting their collectivist ox gored, 'cause that's when they howl the loudest. lol



hahahahaha.

All you speak is in labels and venom. This whole thread is nothing but bait.

What a waste of time.

[Book]

Book you forgot which edition, get it straight.



Edition referenced via post edit pursuant to formal complaint by citizen Po Boy.

http://www.hydrocanna.com/images/smilies/58390736.smiley_wave.gif

[po boy]

You can tell when the reprobates are getting their collectivist ox gored, 'cause that's when they howl the loudest. lol



hahahahaha.

All you speak is in labels and venom. This whole thread is nothing but bait.

What a waste of time.




There is plenty of information on this thread to get you started but you want it spoon feed so it doesn't meet your lazy ways therefore you deem it a waste of time.

What in this thread have you listened to read Blackstones commentaries,ESH, no need to answer I know nothing is what you have done. You want it given to you without effort and on your terms well cry us a river it didn't work out for you bud.

You don't want freedom you need a babysitter which is just what you have, citizenship so sit down shut up and get in line.

[po boy]

Book you forgot which edition, get it straight.



Edition referenced via post edit pursuant to formal complaint by citizen Po Boy.

http://www.hydrocanna.com/images/smilies/58390736.smiley_wave.gif

Book Book you still got it wrong, I though you had this freeman stuff down by now. Your slippin', back to the drawing board.

Not to big of boobs either more than a handful ya know.

3rd time a charm?

[sirgonzo420]

Linky (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/22813692/detail.html)

:oo--> out on bail again Vaughn?

I was released on my own reconnaissance. The intel gathered is above your pay grade.

If you ever get tired of gathering funny pics and copying and pasting agenda-driven MSM drivel, let me know. Until then, I'll leave you with an excerpt from the of the state that has the letters REPUBLIC scrawled across the bottom:


CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

SECTION 1. All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy.




I think you mean "recognizance".

[DMac]

You can tell when the reprobates are getting their collectivist ox gored, 'cause that's when they howl the loudest. lol



hahahahaha.

All you speak is in labels and venom. This whole thread is nothing but bait.

What a waste of time.




There is plenty of information on this thread to get you started but you want it spoon feed so it doesn't meet your lazy ways therefore you deem it a waste of time.

What in this thread have you listened to read Blackstones commentaries,ESH, no need to answer I know nothing is what you have done. You want it given to you without effort and on your terms well cry us a river it didn't work out for you bud.

You don't want freedom you need a babysitter which is just what you have, citizenship so sit down shut up and get in line.


Nice ad hominem in defense of your pal. Were you the one that said to send George Gordon some coin and listen to him (guru). GG is a fast track to jail and broken family.

You know nothing about me, this is obvious.

Lazy. :ROFL:

[midnight rambler]

You can tell when the reprobates are getting their collectivist ox gored, 'cause that's when they howl the loudest. lol



hahahahaha.

All you speak is in labels and venom. This whole thread is nothing but bait.

What a waste of time.




Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you 'earn a living' in the heart of Babylon?

That circumstance alone would qualify one as irretrievable/irredeemable in the view of some.

[po boy]

[

Nice ad hominem in defense of your pal. Were you the one that said to send George Gordon some coin and listen to him (guru). GG is a fast track to jail and broken family.

You know nothing about me, this is obvious.

Lazy. :ROFL:
[/quote]

Are you scared of jail but willing to fight the NWO? Okay get after it.

Broken home how?

Ole George is breaking up homes ha I don't live in Missouri but show me.

Lazy what have you read of what was offered in this thread? Which audio/videos have you listened to which letters did you send and you got a response already. Must be some time warp in your neck of the woods huh.

As to MR never met him be he is welcome anytime.

[ximmy]

You can tell when the reprobates are getting their collectivist ox gored, 'cause that's when they howl the loudest. lol



hahahahaha.

All you speak is in labels and venom. This whole thread is nothing but bait.

What a waste of time.




There is plenty of information on this thread to get you started but you want it spoon feed so it doesn't meet your lazy ways therefore you deem it a waste of time.

What in this thread have you listened to read Blackstones commentaries,ESH, no need to answer I know nothing is what you have done. You want it given to you without effort and on your terms well cry us a river it didn't work out for you bud.

You don't want freedom you need a babysitter which is just what you have, citizenship so sit down shut up and get in line.



"po boy? po boy, is that you?

Yes, Mom, I'm up here with some friends.

Would you like some mini-pizza?

You guys want some mini-pizzas? They're good.

They're like mini-bagels, with pizza stuff on them.

She'll put a little fontina cheese on.

She has palsy, so she ends up putting a lot of cheese on."

[Book]

GG is a fast track to jail and broken family.



http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0906/rock-bottom-bum-homeless-drunk-alcohol-demotivational-poster-1246282088.jpg

George Gordon taught these two guys how to evade child support payments. They tore up their Social Security cards, drivers license, and began a new life in freedom as Sovereign Citizens. George Gordon changed their life!

;)

[midnight rambler]

Statists/collectivists are the lowest forms of life on the planet, and the worst kind of evil as they are in rebellion against God.

[7th trump]

That's right, you heard me - I'm calling out all you traitors to the Constitution.

It's an historical FACT that the alleged 14th Amendment (the moneychangers' amendment) was NOT *lawfully* ratified per Article V of the Constitution. There's NO changing history! IF this alleged 14th Amendment were in fact in effect then it would completely abrogate the Constitution. The alleged 14th Amendment created a whole new class of citizenship, i.e. 'United States citizen'. Those who profess to be a 'U.S. citizen' adhere to the alleged 14th Amendment, therefore those who profess same wish to abrogate the Constitution. It is incongruent to profess being a 'U.S. citizen' while claiming to support the Constitution for the uS of A. One cannot have it both ways.

It finally dawned on me today that the 'anti-government' types are ALL of these 'U.S. citizens', every last one of 'em, and not vice versa. (yeah, well ok, maybe I'm slow and I realize that some of you are way ahead of me in my thinking here)

So now that you've been apprised of the situation, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to continue to support the fraud, or not? Are you going to renounce that U.S. citizenship of yours (knowing that many of you are 'registered voters'), or are you going to continue to go along to get along?


Midnight Rambler...... With all due respect, I agree with and stand with you in most all of your past thoughts and posts but this one I can't, it kinda rubs me the wrong way my friend, as I know that we are ultimately on the same side. Maybe it was the framing of your header and your initial intro line but to me it just ain't right.

There's a lot of us that either don't have the mental IQ, understanding to distinguish the myriad of loopholes, linguistics, legalese to accomplish what you are admonishing us for. It is very WRONG of you to say that we have contempt for the Constitution when you know that any of us would stand beside you and even die for or with you if it came right down to it, in defense of the Constitution.

As I just said in another thread, I reckon I am a common son of a bitch and not as learned as some here and elsewhere but for you to question what is in my heart and mind and to insinuate or accuse me/us of being tantamount enemies of the Constitution is not right and I have to call you out on this one and ask you for a retraction or rephrasing.

I would welcome a similar post on a sheeple forum but not this on this forum and I guess I'm asking for some clarity here.

Thank you.


I'm with Libertytree and would appreciate some detailed responses rather than insults. If you are being genuine MR, why the vitriolic rhetoric against the only people that would be willing to hear you out in the first place? Your OP is quite slanderous.











I've read a lot of this stuff.

Unless I am ready to move away from work centers (not to mention quit my job), and/or formally convert to some religion, I see no way this stuff is applicable to real life.

The following statement has been made in many threads such as this:

-Outline steps folks can follow to extricate themselves from the "beast system"

If you truly believe in the cause described by those claiming to no longer be a part of the system, you should be able to outline, step by step, the things required to do so. And no, I am not going to send you or any others a check for this information. Your contribution to mankind will pay for itself.

Thanks in advance. I really want to believe you.



Exactly.


"Every case is different."

Every person's details are different yet were are all in the same boat - Per the OP, all are US Citizens due to the "illegal 14th Amendment". What is the process to fix this?

7th Trump,

If you believe in what you are writing so passionately why must you persist to be so condescending? You are quite an ironic character. Steadfast in your beliefs in Christ, yet aspire to none of his characteristics.

An analogy that comes to mind when reading these threads would be like me shouting at my friends, "you must own gold and silver to protect yourself!" They would reply, "how". So I shout back "you moron we all cant get it the exact same way! Read this 1400 page book on it! You moron why haven't you read it yet! You traitor to the people!!!"

If you are not ready to walk through this process, continuing the mental masturbation in arguing random pieces of the puzzle is a waste of everyones' time.

I own 2 Blacks Law dictionaries. 5th ed and 8th ed.

I own and read The Red Amendment.

While I found it full of interesting knowledge, attempting to become a state citizen is just going to paint a target on your back.




Hey Dmac theres really nothing condescending about me.
I'm straight forward and at time brutally honest with myself and others.
I told you where to look and what to look for. Just read the Social Security Act. It will even tell you when you enroll into the communist social program that you are no longer standing (legal wise) in the Several states union. All the 50 states are redefined to include Quam, DC, Puerto Rico, US virgin islands, insulars and possessions.
Heck the act even says the Common Law employee to employer rule applies to determine relationship. There is nothing Common Law about the Act except to determine who is the employee and who is the employer......thats it!

If you think I'm condescending wait till Christ is here ruling with a rod of iron.
Ask Christ then while holding His rod of iron where those charactoristics are you say I lack.
Much knashing of teeth in those days Dmac.............much!

[po boy]

You can tell when the reprobates are getting their collectivist ox gored, 'cause that's when they howl the loudest. lol



hahahahaha.

All you speak is in labels and venom. This whole thread is nothing but bait.

What a waste of time.




There is plenty of information on this thread to get you started but you want it spoon feed so it doesn't meet your lazy ways therefore you deem it a waste of time.

What in this thread have you listened to read Blackstones commentaries,ESH, no need to answer I know nothing is what you have done. You want it given to you without effort and on your terms well cry us a river it didn't work out for you bud.

You don't want freedom you need a babysitter which is just what you have, citizenship so sit down shut up and get in line.



"po boy? po boy, is that you?

Yes, Mom, I'm up here with some friends.

Would you like some mini-pizza?

You guys want some mini-pizzas? They're good.

They're like mini-bagels, with pizza stuff on them.

She'll put a little fontina cheese on.

She has palsy, so she ends up putting a lot of cheese on."


I like cheese. Mom makes great mini pizza. You forgot she's on disability and food stamps.

[po boy]

Statists/collectivists are the lowest forms of life on the planet, and the worst kind of evil as they are in rebellion against God.


And it's the same evil they complain about on this very forum and the very thing they are supporting yet attack us for not wanting to be apart of.

[7th trump]

George Gordon taught these two guys how to evade child support payments.

For those who follow the teaching of Book you can find more of her writings here.
http://quatloosia.blogspot.com/
Demosthenes would turn in her mother to the government in exchange for a bag of jelly beans. So would Book.

Some coincidence, huh?

I've often wondered if Book was Demosthenes.
Heck the cat with the lime skin helmet going around here as an avatar is actually Demosthenes's cat.
No shit its her cat.
And yes she would turn her own grandmother in if she knew it would help in a conviction where she gets a kickback.

[Libertytree]

I reckon when TSHTF the 100% sovereign people are immune and exempt from all bullying, bullets and bullshit from above? At the end of the day we're ALL in the same fucking boat and any supposed esoteric, constitutional legalese ain't gonna make a dimes worth of difference.

I still think Midnight Rambler owes us all an apology...don't you MR?

[DMac]

I reckon when TSHTF the 100% sovereign people are immune and exempt from all bullying, bullets and Bullshit from above? At the end of the day we're ALL in the same fucking boat and any supposed esoteric, constitutional legalese ain't gonna make a dimes worth of difference.

I still think Midnight Rambler owes us all an apology...don't you MR?


Watching it LT he's going to call you a collectivist, commie loving statist for that one! :ROFL:

[Book]

...on this very forum...



:oo-->

[po boy]

I reckon when TSHTF the 100% sovereign people are immune and exempt from all bullying, bullets and Bullshit from above? At the end of the day we're ALL in the same fucking boat and any supposed esoteric, constitutional legalese ain't gonna make a dimes worth of difference.

I still think Midnight Rambler owes us all an apology...don't you MR?


Watching it LT he's going to call you a collectivist, commie loving statist for that one! :ROFL:


Well he's claiming to be owed something lol. Sorry Lt I couldn't resist.

[DMac]

I reckon when TSHTF the 100% sovereign people are immune and exempt from all bullying, bullets and Bullshit from above? At the end of the day we're ALL in the same fucking boat and any supposed esoteric, constitutional legalese ain't gonna make a dimes worth of difference.

I still think Midnight Rambler owes us all an apology...don't you MR?


Watching it LT he's going to call you a collectivist, commie loving statist for that one! :ROFL:


Well he's claiming to be owed something lol. Sorry Lt I couldn't resist.


that was pretty funny :)

[midnight rambler]

I reckon when TSHTF the 100% sovereign people are immune and exempt from all bullying, bullets and Bullshit from above? At the end of the day we're ALL in the same fucking boat and any supposed esoteric, constitutional legalese ain't gonna make a dimes worth of difference.

I still think Midnight Rambler owes us all an apology...don't you MR?


Apologize for what? The fact that you've been apprised of the circumstances and yet you choose the not to rectify your own situation by answering the call?

LT, have you ever spent any time around a POW who has experienced SEVERAL YEARS of captivity and torture while in the service of this country? Well I have, and it's very likely the most humbling experience I've ever had, or ever expect to have, as that sort of thing takes a body to a whole new level of existence which I cannot even begin to comprehend. Robbie Risner is a dear friend of mine and I'm not going to let his sacrifices go in vain.

Twenty years ago before I got the opportunity to meet Robbie and spend afternoons with him in his den surrounded by history I was told by a mutual friend, "He's a war hero." I didn't get it then, and I'm still working on 'getting it' with respect to his time as POW. If Robbie can endure what he went through, then I can certainly fall in behind him and do my part for the cause of "the perfect law of liberty".

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VRGQ7JKVL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

[7th trump]

I reckon when TSHTF the 100% sovereign people are immune and exempt from all bullying, bullets and Bullshit from above? At the end of the day we're ALL in the same fucking boat and any supposed esoteric, constitutional legalese ain't gonna make a dimes worth of difference.

I still think Midnight Rambler owes us all an apology...don't you MR?

Yep, it wont make a difference then, and why should it, but it does now!
No I dont think MR owes anybody an apology. If any apology should ever be said it should be you for not having any faith in your fellow countrymen to do and talk about what it right.
And you with a name like Libertytree wanting an apology? :conf:

[ximmy]

LT, have you ever spent any time around a POW who has experienced SEVERAL YEARS of captivity and torture while in the service of this country? Well I have, and it's very likely the most humbling experience I've ever had, or ever expect to have, as that sort of thing takes a body to a whole new level of existence which I cannot even begin to comprehend. Robbie Risner is a dear friend of mine and I'm not going to let his sacrifices go in vain.

[/quote]
Wow, that's almost as sad as...

Jews were prohibited from celebrating holy days... :boohoo

http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/why-i-can't-stand-jews/msg213438/?topicseen#msg213438

[Horn]

Demosthenes would turn in her mother to the government in exchange for a bag of jelly beans. So would Book.

Some coincidence, huh?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eDFwCOdl3A

[po boy]

had a mason tell me stories of ww2 asking his superior if they could shoot bodies so they would sink so the sailors could at least cope, one of my helo pilot instructors tell me stories of VN I wish I never heard,another mason who was in Vn ready to tear a new ass come round up time for the nwo. Those stories are not something you cannot forget even if you were not there.
Masons or not pain is pain and not something anyone wants to re live.

Lt you are not owed anything the fight is now and every bit counts no matter what the books,zimmys of the wold think.

Get off your knees and fight you are LT for God's sake right? You gonna lay down now WTF?

[Book]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy



http://www.rjgeib.com/biography/europe/germany/berlin2.jpg

Whoever disagrees with them are damn nazi statists who hate God and spit on the memory of war prisoners.

:oo-->

[po boy]

I reckon when TSHTF the 100% sovereign people are immune and exempt from all bullying, bullets and Bullshit from above? At the end of the day we're ALL in the same fucking boat and any supposed esoteric, constitutional legalese ain't gonna make a dimes worth of difference.

I still think Midnight Rambler owes us all an apology...don't you MR?


Watching it LT he's going to call you a collectivist, commie loving statist for that one! :ROFL:


Glad we can still have a laugh ;D

Well he's claiming to be owed something lol. Sorry Lt I couldn't resist.


that was pretty funny :)

[midnight rambler]

Whoever disagrees with them are damn statists who hate God and spit on the memory of war prisoners.

Finally you get something right Book. (and FWIW it's not a matter of 'disagreeing' so much as it is a matter of being in rebellion against God - either man is god or God is God, it's one way or the other and that's all there is to it; ALL of you infernal statists WILL pay in the end)

When are you going to stop working for the enemy?

"Cause division among them." --Sun Tzu

And oh yeah, regarding the POW/MIA situation: those who don't see red when they think about abandoning our boys to the Communists while not holding 'our leaders' accountable for doing so have no soul.

FREE THE PEOPLE OF EARTH - DEATH TO ALL COLLECTIVISTS/STATISTS

[po boy]

Rambler, Palani, & Po boy



http://www.rjgeib.com/biography/europe/germany/berlin2.jpg

Whoever disagrees with them are damn nazi statists who hate God and spit on the memory of war prisoners.

:oo-->

10 commandments or the ten planks. Is Demonacracy the middle ground?

What war would Book fight? Zimmy you seemed to join the fray where's your rifle? Where's your line in the sand? It just keeps moving huh.

Post some pics Book of all your homeless freeman war heroes that shit is sooo funny right. Make sure to get the flag in the pic.

[Book]

...and FWIW it's not a matter of 'disagreeing' so much as it is a matter of being in rebellion against God - either man is god or God is God, it's one way or the other and that's all there is to it; ALL of you infernal statists WILL pay in the end...



God wants us to tear up our drivers license and Social Security card and live like homeless bums?

:oo-->

[Son of Dave]

I think the first step for those wondering would be to get out of debt.

The key to starving the state or anything is to stop feeding it right? So why keep writing checks to those who rely on it?

You need to pay for everything and not be holdin to nothing first and formost. It's kinda easy once you think about it.

[Libertytree]

Yes MR, I have spent time with some POW's, some WW2 and some Vietnam.

If you truly think that most of us have utter contempt for the Constitution because we don't follow your particular path then that's just gonna have to be your opinion. I don't agree with your opinion and I think it's sad that you hold the rest of us in such low esteem but I'd still stand beside ya in a fight and I suspect that most here would too. Sounds kinda fucked up, doesn't it?

7th.....you're entitled to your opinion too, have at it.

[ximmy]

...and FWIW it's not a matter of 'disagreeing' so much as it is a matter of being in rebellion against God - either man is god or God is God, it's one way or the other and that's all there is to it; ALL of you infernal statists WILL pay in the end...



God wants us to tear up our drivers license and Social Security card and live like homeless bums?

:oo-->


There you go thinking small again Book... God wants us to destroy the paved roads, sewer systems, electrical grids, bridges, anything built by the evil collective... Reject them NOW!! ::)

[Horn]

God wants us to tear up our drivers license and Social Security card ....?


I'm not planning on being buried, or cremated with them.

Do you actually own an S.S. card, Book. Is it in mint condition?

(S.S. = Social Security)

[Son of Dave]

Who called 'God' into anything?

When's the last time you called upon 'God'?

We're talking about freedoms here. Let's not confuse the issue. Please. God's got it covered.

[Horn]

Further notes and addenda.

It must be noted that the Resolution proposing the twelve sections which comprise the Bill of Rights was not issued to the States with a signature, nor were nos. 11, 12, or the original 13th. The proposed "Corwin" 13th of 1861 legalizing Slavery and acknowledging States rights, signed as approved by Buchanan two days before Lincoln's inauguration, and the Anti-Slavery Amendment, signed by then President Lincoln were the only two signed by presidents. So President Andrew Johnson's argument was probably defective.

It may be helpful to know that the 14th amendment proclamations of July 20, 1868, cite 51, and July 28, 1868, cite 53, were issued as Presidential Executive Orders.

Presidential Executive Order No. 6 **, issued July 20, 1868. Ratification of the 14th Amendment certified as valid, provided the consent of Ohio and New Jersey be deemed as remaining in force despite subsequent withdrawal. **Signed by William H. Seward, Secretary of State. Has the form of a proclamation.

Presidential Executive Order No. 7 **, issued July 28, 1868. 14th Amendment certified as in effect and ordered published. **Signed by William H. Seward, Secretary of State.

From Presidential Executive Order Title List -- Presidential Executive Orders, 2 vols. (N.Y.: Books, Inc., 1944 Copyright by Mayor of N.Y. 1944), vol. 1, pp. 1-2.

In this light the 14th (amendment), which has perplexed many, is an Executive Order, not an (Article) of Amendment to the Constitution of the united States of America, albeit a statute and so remains an Executive Order.

What really counts are these points:

A) New Jersey was disenfranchised in the Senate by having its lawfully elected Senator accepted, and then rejected, and without a 2/3rds vote;

B) Oregon's faulty ratification vote with unlawful state legislators being allowed to cast votes; and the lawfully constituted state legislature then rejecting the Fourteenth, but too late.

C) Non-republican [Reconstruction] governments of the southern States imposed by military force and fiat, cannot ratify anything. Either the Fourteenth is legal and the anti-slavery amendment is not, or the anti-slavery amendment is legal and the Fourteenth is not.



http://www.barefootsworld.net/14uncon.html

[Son of Dave]

If you think God or the State will flush your toilet, keep squeezing. Only one of them will send you a bill.

[Horn]

If you think God or the State will flush your toilet, keep squeezing. Only one of them will send you a bill.


Forgettabout it, Dave.

Take it slow on me, you can't just return like this & bend me over & force it in.. :-*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnhLE_L8ykk

[Book]

There you go thinking small again Book... God wants us to destroy the paved roads, sewer systems, electrical grids, bridges, anything built by the evil collective... Reject them NOW!! ::)



http://davidgmcafee.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/homeless-jesus.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_OAPnhzsb6EE/TBB8ELg06MI/AAAAAAAAA6k/X4Av1mR9ha0/s1600/7232_1133885552161_1377963184_30400671_3554719_n.j pg

http://aaronreddin.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/jesus-was.jpg

[midnight rambler]

God wants us to tear up our drivers license and Social Security card and live like homeless bums?

:oo-->


I know quite a few people who don't depend upon (actors of) the collectivist state to determine their identity whatsoever and the ironic thing is that not a single one of them is homeless.

If anyone has any doubts that Book worships mammon and not God, there's your proof. I mean really, how much proof do you need?

[midnight rambler]

There you go thinking small again Book... God wants us to destroy the paved roads, sewer systems, electrical grids, bridges, anything built by the evil collective... Reject them NOW!! ::)


Destroying infrastructure, how absurd. Are you unable to make the distinction between lawful government and the state?? Good grief.

Sometimes I have to wonder why you even hang out here, as this post of yours shows a very low vibrational rate, so low I'm not seeing any resonance except out of the likes of Book (which is to be expected).

[Book]

If anyone has any doubts that Book worships mammon and not God, there's your proof. I mean really, how much proof do you need?



http://littlebylittle2008.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/jesus_freak.jpg

Why does this Believer have a state license plate on his car?

:dunno

[Horn]

http://catalystxxx.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/very-shallow-grave.jpg

:oo-->

[ximmy]

FREE THE PEOPLE OF EARTH - DEATH TO ALL COLLECTIVISTS/STATISTS
::)

Statists/collectivists are the lowest forms of life on the planet, and the worst kind of evil as they are in rebellion against God.
::)



Destroying infrastructure, how absurd. Are you unable to make the distinction between lawful government and the state?? Good grief.

::)

[Son of Dave]

When God takes me I sure hope I have enough links in on a forum to define my works! Amen hot link that brother!

[Son of Dave]

Everyone rails against Hollywood. Yet so many employ their tactics. Few words, many pictures. Tee Hee.

[Glass]

I knew this thread would end up in a bitch fight and good info would get buried. They always do. While you guys entertain the likes of book and ximmy this will continue.

/ignore them

Although the ignore feature here is seriously flawed and is the main reason I have complained/pushed/urged a move to Vbulletin where at least the ignore function works 100%.

[7th trump]

Yes MR, I have spent time with some POW's, some WW2 and some Vietnam.

If you truly think that most of us have utter contempt for the Constitution because we don't follow your particular path then that's just gonna have to be your opinion. I don't agree with your opinion and I think it's sad that you hold the rest of us in such low esteem but I'd still stand beside ya in a fight and I suspect that most here would too. Sounds kinda fucked up, doesn't it?

7th.....you're entitled to your opinion too, have at it.

You read my opinion already!

[7th trump]

I knew this thread would end up in a bitch fight and good info would get buried. They always do. While you guys entertain the likes of book and ximmy this will continue.

/ignore them

Although the ignore feature here is seriously flawed and is the main reason I have complained/pushed/urged a move to Vbulletin where at least the ignore function works 100%.

I do ignore them.

[midnight rambler]

One REALLY should be thinking about just exactly what is it that would motivate someone to come onto a thread and ridicule and deride those discussing THE FACTS OF THE MATTER (it IS historical fact about the 14th Amendment being based entirely on fraud, period) and how to correct one's status to THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER (state citizenship being very real and 'U.S. citizenship' under the 14th Amendment being anything but real). Think of the considerable time, effort, and energy involved in doing so! And this deliberate effort to mislead and obfuscate is a blatant defense of a FALSE belief system!

There's enough to this effort to lead one to believe that it's much more than simply defending a personal belief system, that this effort is part of the beast system itself, i.e. someone is getting some pay, perks, or other compensation to engage in such activity.

The entire issue of liberty is based upon status, and living under 'the perfect law of liberty' is the PRIMARY issue we should all be concerned with, everything else is secondary. IMO, take care of this ONE issue (living in accordance with the laws of nature and of nature's God) and EVERYTHING ELSE will take care of itself.

[midnight rambler]

There's a lot of us that either don't have the mental IQ, understanding to distinguish the myriad of loopholes, linguistics, legalese to accomplish what you are admonishing us for.

Are you saying here that you lack the mental competency to grasp and comprehend the common law ('the perfect law of liberty')? If that's the case I apologize and send my condolences. I honestly had no idea.

[Book]

That's right, you heard me - I'm calling out all you traitors to the Constitution.



The OP.

:ROFL: wasn't as easy as you thought. huh.

[sirgonzo420]

I think one of his last posts was something to the effect of I'm your master then he turned tail and ran. I didn't see that, but he seemed to leave the forum in the middle of our right to travel thread (I'm sure gonzo remembers, he appeared to be just starting vehicle/travel research at that time). He posted like Book but made the mistake of directly challenging the merits/legality instead of just sticking to the ad hominem and jokes. Book's no dummy.

Yeah I actually appreciated his presence (DA1984), but as you said, he just up and disappeared. I think another poster like him was 1694.


I think you mean "recognizance".
I put reconnaissance in italics for a reason, you of all jokesters should have noticed. :)
[/quote]

Very clever.

I didn't realize what you were doing there until after I had "corrected" you.

So your wit was not completely lost on me. lol

[Libertytree]

There's a lot of us that either don't have the mental IQ, understanding to distinguish the myriad of loopholes, linguistics, legalese to accomplish what you are admonishing us for.

Are you saying here that you lack the mental competency to grasp and comprehend the common law ('the perfect law of liberty')? If that's the case I apologize and send my condolences. I honestly had no idea.


It seems like while reading common law I'm struck by its simplicity but trying to untangle the bastardized mess of maritime/corporate law that's been used to subvert or replace common law is one hell of an undertaking. Just because I lack full understanding of all of these caveats doesn't mean I have contempt for the Constitution.

[midnight rambler]

There's a lot of us that either don't have the mental IQ, understanding to distinguish the myriad of loopholes, linguistics, legalese to accomplish what you are admonishing us for.

Are you saying here that you lack the mental competency to grasp and comprehend the common law ('the perfect law of liberty')? If that's the case I apologize and send my condolences. I honestly had no idea.


It seems like while reading common law I'm struck by its simplicity but trying to untangle the bastardized mess of maritime/corporate law that's been used to subvert or replace common law is one hell of an undertaking. Just because I lack full understanding of all of these caveats doesn't mean I have contempt for the Constitution.


All you really need to concern yourself with is an understanding that any statutes, codes, and ordinances only apply to U.S. citizens via the 14th Amendment. Because of the setup, it's purely administrative/statutory jurisdiction, not admiralty/maritime.

“legislation is not the same as the law of the land” -Westervelt v. Gregg

"…statutes which would deprive a citizen of the rights of person or property without a regular trial, according to the course and usage of common law, would not be the law of the land." -- Hoke v. Henderson

[midnight rambler]

Clearly what many of you are not getting is that we outnumber them. If we bog down their administrative courts they will naturally be forced to behave themselves when they encounter state citizens and provide remedy and recourse under the law of the land. Think of it as death by a thousand cuts.

[7th trump]

Clearly what many of you are not getting is that we outnumber them. If we bog down their administrative courts they will naturally be forced to behave themselves when they encounter state citizens and provide remedy and recourse under the law of the land. Think of it as death by a thousand cuts.

Only one thing wrong with your post MR.
You will never see any state citizen (one that has the full protections of the Constitution) in any administrative statutory civil law court ever!
Administrative policy (aka statutory civil law) applies to those who are "subject to the jurisdiction thereof".
State citizens are not subject to the jurisdiction thereof to be hauled into "their" court to be questioned about policy that doesnt pertain to them.
Their rules and regulations and court do not apply to you or your court.
The biggest con ever is to keep civics from being taught in public schools.
The government has virtually no control over the jurisdictional "People" and they want to keep it that way!
At all costs the socialist in government have kept the Americans from understanding political civic differences between "the People" and "US citizens".