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Serpo
14th April 2011, 01:01 PM
I wonder where the Dutch got this expertise in growing indoors...... ;D

DEN BOSCH, NETHERLANDS (ASSOCIATED PRESS) – Farming is moving indoors, where the sun never shines, where rainfall is irrelevant and where the climate is always right.

The perfect crop field could be inside a windowless building with meticulously controlled light, temperature, humidity, air quality and nutrition. It could be in a New York high-rise, a Siberian bunker, or a sprawling complex in the Saudi desert.

Advocates say this, or something like it, may be an answer to the world's food problems.

"In order to keep a planet that's worth living on, we have to change our methods," says Gertjan Meeuws, of PlantLab, a private research company.

The world already is having trouble feeding itself. Half the people on Earth live in cities, and nearly half of those — about 3 billion — are hungry or malnourished. Food prices, currently soaring, are buffeted by droughts, floods and the cost of energy required to plant, fertilize, harvest and transport it.

And prices will only get more unstable. Climate change makes long-term crop planning uncertain. Farmers in many parts of the world already are draining available water resources to the last drop. And the world is getting more crowded: by mid-century, the global population will grow from 6.8 billion to 9 billion, the U.N. predicts.

To feed so many people may require expanding farmland at the expense of forests and wilderness, or finding ways to radically increase crop yields.

Meeuws and three other Dutch bioengineers have taken the concept of a greenhouse a step further, growing vegetables, herbs and house plants in enclosed and regulated environments where even natural light is excluded.

In their research station, strawberries, yellow peppers, basil and banana plants take on an eerie pink glow under red and blue bulbs of Light-Emitting Diodes, or LEDs. Water trickles into the pans when needed and all excess is recycled, and the temperature is kept constant. Lights go on and off, simulating day and night, but according to the rhythm of the plant — which may be better at shorter cycles than 24 hours — rather than the rotation of the Earth.

In a larger "climate chamber" a few miles away, a nursery is nurturing cuttings of fittonia, a colorful house plant, in two layers of 70 square meters (750 sq. feet) each. Blasts of mist keep the room humid, and the temperature is similar to the plants' native South America. After the cuttings take root — the most sensitive stage in the growing process — they are wheeled into a greenhouse and the chamber is again used for rooting. The process cuts the required time to grow a mature plant to six weeks from 12 or more.

The Dutch researchers say they plan to build a commercial-sized building in the Netherlands of 1,300 square meters (14,000 sq. feet), with four separate levels of vegetation by the end of this year. After that, they envision growing vegetables next to shopping malls, supermarkets or other food retailers.

Meeuws says a building of 100 sq meters (1,075 sq. feet) and 14 layers of plants could provide a daily diet of 200 grams (7 ounces) of fresh fruit and vegetables to the entire population of Den Bosch, about 140,000 people. Their idea is not to grow foods that require much space, like corn or potatoes. "We are looking at the top of the pyramid where we have high value and low volume," he said.

Sunlight is not only unnecessary but can be harmful, says Meeuws. Plants need only specific wavelengths of light to grow, but in nature they must adapt to the full range of light as a matter of survival. When light and other natural elements are manipulated, the plants become more efficient, using less energy to grow.

"Nature is good, but too much nature is killing," said Meeuws, standing in a steaming cubicle amid racks of what he called "happy plants."

For more than a decade the four researchers have been tinkering with combinations of light, soil and temperature on a variety of plants, and now say their growth rate is three times faster than under greenhouse conditions. They use no pesticides, and about 90 percent less water than outdoors agriculture. While LED bulbs are expensive, the cost is steadily dropping.

Olaf van Kooten, a professor of horticulture at Wageningen University who has observed the project but has no stake in it, says a kilogram (2.2 pounds) of tomatoes grown in Israeli fields needs 60 liters (16 gallons) of water, while those grown in a Dutch greenhouse require one-quarter of that. "With this system it is possible in principle to produce a kilo of tomatoes with a little over one liter of water," he said.

The notion of multistory greenhouses has been around for a while. Dickson Despommier, a retired Columbia University professor of environmental health and author of the 2010 book "The Vertical Farm," began working on indoor farming as a classroom project in 1999, and the idea has spread to several startup projects across the U.S.

"Over the last five year urban farming has really gained traction," Despommier said in a telephone interview.

Despommier argues that city farming means producing food near the consumer, eliminating the need to transport it long distances at great costs of fuel and spoilage and with little dependency on the immediate climate.

The science behind LED lighting in agriculture "is quite rigorous and well known," he said, and the costs are dropping dramatically. The next development, organic light-emitting diodes or OLEDs, which can be packed onto thin film and wrapped around a plant, will be even more efficiently tuned to its needs.

One of the more dramatic applications of plant-growing chambers under LED lights was by NASA, which installed them in the space Shuttle and the space station Mir in the 1990s as part of its experiment with microgravity.

"This system is a first clear step that has to grow," Van Kooten says, but more research is needed and people need to get used to the idea of sunless, landless agriculture.

"But it's clear to me a system like this is necessary."

http://www.kold.com/story/14428766/sunless-farming

vacuum
14th April 2011, 02:59 PM
Great post.

Btw, here is a crazy idea: what if you took solar panels and used them to power LEDs. Think about it. If you connected them directly, no batteries would be needed because they'd automatically come on during the day and turn off at night. No inverter would be needed.

Book
14th April 2011, 03:07 PM
Think about it. If you connected them directly, no batteries would be needed because they'd automatically come on during the day and turn off at night. No inverter would be needed.



http://worldwatts.com/gael/greenhouse_2.jpg

:)

Hillbilly
14th April 2011, 03:15 PM
This is the wave of the future. It's the only way we can be sure to protect our Heirloom Seeds from the predatory pollen from the likes of Monsanto.

Bullion_Bob
14th April 2011, 04:01 PM
I was reading led's are a poor substitute during the flowering stage compared to other lighting.

Why I don't know, it's all wavelengths (colors) anyways. :conf:

Andy9999
14th April 2011, 04:07 PM
Think about it. If you connected them directly, no batteries would be needed because they'd automatically come on during the day and turn off at night. No inverter would be needed.



http://worldwatts.com/gael/greenhouse_2.jpg

:)
I want this greenhouse
where can I buy it?>?????? ;D

Korbin Dallas
14th April 2011, 09:10 PM
Good to know that once they scorch the earth, they can still grow food for the few privledged survivors underground.

vacuum
14th April 2011, 09:24 PM
Good to know that once they scorch the earth, they can still grow food for the few privledged survivors underground.


Good point. Its interesting that growing underground would mean that the temperature could be constant all year round, allowing vegetables of any type to be available at any time.

beefsteak
14th April 2011, 10:58 PM
[quote=vacuum ]

Think about it. If you connected them directly, no batteries would be needed because they'd automatically come on during the day and turn off at night. No inverter would be needed.



:)
I want this greenhouse
where can I buy it?>?????? ;D



Andy,
here's another shot of this gh you are coveting...I can't make out the brand-name/logo. Hope this helps.

http://worldwatts.com/gael/greenhouse.jpg

beefsteak
14th April 2011, 11:25 PM
Speaking of "wrap around, thin film" products usable in hydroponics and other non-traditional applications,
there's an ebay seller that sells thermostatically controlled thin film heat strips. I've actually observed a buddy who bought several feet from this ebay seller, and he uses those thin film heat strips to start his seedlings early inside of one of his less protected from the cold "greenhouses."

I could try to find his ebay user name, but it would take me a spell. It seems my buddy told me the guy uses the thin film for keeping baby chicks warm instead of the traditional heat lamp that can get pretty hot and is kind of a fire hazard. So one might have to look for like incubators and stuff like that to find that ebay seller.

Hope this helps.
beefsteak

Neuro
15th April 2011, 06:15 AM
Very interesting. I guess one could potentially provide all the vegetables a family needs in a kitchen cupboard. Using ledlights would minimize the electric usage, and very little water would be required...

uncletonoose
15th April 2011, 06:57 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Heat-Sprout-Seedling-Heat-Mat-Germination-3-Sizes-/330495808600?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item7dbbc815be

beefsteak
15th April 2011, 12:07 PM
Great post, Vacuum.

Btw, here is a crazy idea: what if you took solar panels and used them to power LEDs. Think about it. If you connected them directly, no batteries would be needed because they'd automatically come on during the day and turn off at night. No inverter would be needed.


Another advantage of powering LEDs with solar is this: sun could be recharging the battery power source during the day, and the LEDS could be powered at night from the battery bank.

Does anyone know of a DC timer one could use to turn on and off the battery bank for this idea to work?

PS...just did a search and found this: http://www.google.com/search?q=DC+timer%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Anyone ever use a DC timer and wants to recommend their make and model?

THANKS.
beefstak

beefsteak
15th April 2011, 12:18 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Heat-Sprout-Seedling-Heat-Mat-Germination-3-Sizes-/330495808600?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item7dbbc815be


That must be the guy, uncletonoose. Thanks for finding and posting that!

I clicked to check out his seller's other items' link and found his incubator listings. He even has false eggs for sale. Wonder how that helps a hen hatch a clutch of eggs? My great grandmother had a wooden egg she used when she darned socks in the old days. She'd shove that thing up into the toes of socks and then do her thing. It was not white as I remember. Wonder if she borrowed it from a settin' hen? :D

beefsteak

vacuum
15th April 2011, 01:47 PM
Great post, Vacuum.

Btw, here is a crazy idea: what if you took solar panels and used them to power LEDs. Think about it. If you connected them directly, no batteries would be needed because they'd automatically come on during the day and turn off at night. No inverter would be needed.


Another advantage of powering LEDs with solar is this: sun could be recharging the battery power source during the day, and the LEDS could be powered at night from the battery bank.

Does anyone know of a DC timer one could use to turn on and off the battery bank for this idea to work?

PS...just did a search and found this: http://www.google.com/search?q=DC+timer%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Anyone ever use a DC timer and wants to recommend their make and model?

THANKS.
beefstak

Why would you need to run the lights at night? I don't think plants can grow properly with light 24 hours/day.

vacuum
15th April 2011, 01:52 PM
Btw, here is an idea for a timer: you could take an old clock radio and wire the speaker output to an appropriate relay switch. Set the alarm so that it goes off when desired.

Of course to do a professional job I'd probably use an ATMega328p microcontroller and write the appropriate code, either that or use a usb digital io module and do everything off a laptop.

edit: instead of going with just an plain microcontroller, I think something like this would be easier:
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9950

beefsteak
15th April 2011, 02:04 PM
Great post, Vacuum.

Btw, here is a crazy idea: what if you took solar panels and used them to power LEDs. Think about it. If you connected them directly, no batteries would be needed because they'd automatically come on during the day and turn off at night. No inverter would be needed.


Another advantage of powering LEDs with solar is this: sun could be recharging the battery power source during the day, and the LEDS could be powered at night from the battery bank.

Does anyone know of a DC timer one could use to turn on and off the battery bank for this idea to work?

PS...just did a search and found this: http://www.google.com/search?q=DC+timer%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Anyone ever use a DC timer and wants to recommend their make and model?

THANKS.
beefstak

Why would you need to run the lights at night? I don't think plants can grow properly with light 24 hours/day.


Sorry, I thought we were also talking about Red/Blue LED totally inside growing, as in true sunless.

Changing the plant's exposure to light cycle, especially if using RED, Blue LEDs for light source, shortens the seedling to maturation cycle by as much as 50% acc'd to that Dutch article. And it also increases abundance of harvest.

So, solar charge battery bank during daylight hours, and use battery bank sourced LED lighting in a sunless bldg during nightitme hours seems like a low-cost, win win to me.

beefsteak

vacuum
15th April 2011, 02:15 PM
So are you saying that you'd use a timer for, say, 16 hours of light followed by 8 hours of dark? Then your artificial cycles may or may not match up with what's happening outside, sometimes they might be on when its dark outside and sometimes not?



In their research station, strawberries, yellow peppers, basil and banana plants take on an eerie pink glow under red and blue bulbs of Light-Emitting Diodes, or LEDs. Water trickles into the pans when needed and all excess is recycled, and the temperature is kept constant. Lights go on and off, simulating day and night, but according to the rhythm of the plant — which may be better at shorter cycles than 24 hours — rather than the rotation of the Earth.

beefsteak
15th April 2011, 03:18 PM
Yes, you understand what I'm saying. And you said it better than me. ;D