iPhone keeps record of everywhere you go

[vacuum]

iPhone keeps record of everywhere you go

Privacy fears raised as researchers reveal file on iPhone that stores location coordinates and timestamps of owner's movements

Security researchers have discovered that Apple's iPhone keeps track of where you go – and saves every detail of it to a secret file on the device which is then copied to the owner's computer when the two are synchronised.

The file contains the latitude and longitude of the phone's recorded coordinates along with a timestamp, meaning that anyone who stole the phone or the computer could discover details about the owner's movements using a simple program.

For some phones, there could be almost a year's worth of data stored, as the recording of data seems to have started with Apple's iOS 4 update to the phone's operating system, released in June 2010.

"Apple has made it possible for almost anybody – a jealous spouse, a private detective – with access to your phone or computer to get detailed information about where you've been," said Pete Warden, one of the researchers.

Only the iPhone records the user's location in this way, say Warden and Alasdair Allan, the data scientists who discovered the file and are presenting their findings at the Where 2.0 conference in San Francisco on Wednesday. "Alasdair has looked for similar tracking code in [Google's] Android phones and couldn't find any," said Warden. "We haven't come across any instances of other phone manufacturers doing this."

Simon Davies, director of the pressure group Privacy International, said: "This is a worrying discovery. Location is one of the most sensitive elements in anyone's life – just think where people go in the evening. The existence of that data creates a real threat to privacy. The absence of notice to users or any control option can only stem from an ignorance about privacy at the design stage."

Warden and Allan point out that the file is moved onto new devices when an old one is replaced: "Apple might have new features in mind that require a history of your location, but that's our specualtion. The fact that [the file] is transferred across [to a new iPhone or iPad] when you migrate is evidence that the data-gathering isn't accidental." But they said it does not seem to be transmitted to Apple itself.
iphone-data-map Map shows location data collected from an iPhone that had been used in the southwest of England

Although mobile networks already record phones' locations, it is only available to the police and other recognised organisations following a court order under the Regulation of Investigatory Power Act. Standard phones do not record location data.

MPs in 2009 criticised the search engine giant Google for its "Latitude" system, which allowed people to enable their mobile to give out details of their location to trusted contacts. At the time MPs said that Latitude "could substantially endanger user privacy", but Google pointed out that users had to specifically choose to make their data available.

The iPhone system, by contrast, appears to record the data whether or not the user agrees. Apple declined to comment on why the file is created or whether it can be disabled.

Warden and Allan have set up a web page which answers questions about the file, and created a simple downloadable application to let Apple users check for themselves what location data the phone is retaining. The Guardian has confirmed that 3G-enabled devices including the iPad also retain the data and copy it to the owner's computer.

If someone were to steal an iPhone and "jailbreak" it, giving them direct access to the files it contains, they could extract the location database directly. Alternatively, anyone with direct access to a user's computer could run the application and see a visualisation of their movements. Encrypting data on the computer is one way to protect against it, though that still leaves the file on the phone.

Graham Cluley, senior technology consultant at the security company Sophos, said: "If the data isn't required for anything, then it shouldn't store the location. And it doesn't need to keep an archive on your machine of where you've been." He suggested that Apple might be hoping that it would yield data for future mobile advertising targeted by location, although he added: "I tend to subscribe to cockup rather than conspiracy on things like this – I don't think Apple is really trying to monitor where users are."
iphone data The data inside the file containing the location and time information. This is used to plot the map above

The location file came to light when Warden and Allan were looking for a source of mobile data. "We'd been discussing doing a visualisation of mobile data, and while Alasdair was researching into what was available, he discovered this file. At first we weren't sure how much data was there, but after we dug further and visualised the extracted data, it became clear that there was a scary amount of detail on our movements," Warden said.

The pair of data scientists have collaborated on a number of data visualisations, including a map of radiation levels in Japan for The Guardian. They are developing a Data Science Toolkit for dealing with location data.

Davies said that the discovery of the file indicated that Apple had failed to take users' privacy seriously.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/20/iphone-tracking-prompts-privacy-fears

[Korbin Dallas]

Meanwhile, the sheep keep lining up like Eloi, wondering when they can have their I Phone 5.

[chad]

turn on iphone | touch settings | touch general | touch location services | click off.

drama averted. :oo-->

[Son-of-Liberty]

turn on iphone | touch settings | touch general | touch location services | click off.

drama averted. :oo-->


I don't know, the more I find out about theses things the more it seems like even having one is like playing with plutonium. There is another thread of the police being able to download everything off your phone even deleted files and they are doing it at traffic stops.

[SHTF2010]

turn on iphone | touch settings | touch general | touch location services | click off.

drama averted. :oo-->



that's what THEY want you to think

the tracking device is never off . . .


/tinfoil hat off

[gunDriller]

Meanwhile, the sheep keep lining up like Eloi, wondering when they can have their I Phone 5.


and to think that when Jobs recruited Sculley back in the mid-1980's, his line was, "do you keep selling sugar-water, or do you want to change the world ?"

it's almost as if Jobs recruited the Other Sculley, from that sci-fi show.

[iOWNme]

I think it was back in 1996, the FCC used a child kidnapping to implement the MANDATORY tracking of all cell phones.

[Twisted Titan]

Apple declined to comment on why the file is created or whether it can be disabled.




This is why I have a particular distate for all things Apple. These smug bastards drip a arrogance I have NEVER seen with any other company.

Yeah we did it, so what ?? Have your checkbook ready at the next product launch.

[MAGNES]

Don't be surprised if your carrier is doing this to everyone, matter of fact they are,
it costs them nothing and the government snoopers most likely mandate it by secret
laws. Even if your phone is off or even if you remove your battery they still may be
able to ping you and get a location. Most likely they can listen to anything and anyone
anytime, everyone is a walking microphone and camera, in the past they recorded regular phones,
how hard could it be to do that know, most phones are mini computers and disk drives
cost nothing to store massive amounts of data, who knows what they are doing or
storing, nothing would surprise me.

If you think my highlight above is nutz, remember the school that was spying on students
through their laptops, audio, video, this is low tech stuff, imagine what gov institutions can do
and have been doing.

[iOWNme]

I think it was back in 1996, the FCC used a child kidnapping to implement the MANDATORY tracking of all cell phones.


Here it is:

FCC Telecommunications Act of 1996 (http://www.fcc.gov/telecom.html)

[MAGNES]

I think it was back in 1996, the FCC used a child kidnapping to implement the MANDATORY tracking of all cell phones.


Here it is:

FCC Telecommunications Act of 1996 (http://www.fcc.gov/telecom.html)


I got a keyboard in the past , an HP pavilion 8000 something from '98,
the keyboard sent out pings, I found out about this from online searches
trying to fix motherboard issues, I will never buy another machine from
one of these big companies, I built a couple myself since then, pay cash
for machine, no records, you notice reports of apple trying to get people
to pay by cards so they can be identified. Who knows what else they
are doing, the camera is taking pictures too. They got wifi on , what does
it cost them ?

[JDRock]

turn on iphone | touch settings | touch general | touch location services | click off.

drama averted. :oo-->



that's what THEY want you to think

the tracking device is never off . . .


/tinfoil hat off


this post needs a bump! |--0--|

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Mark my words, they can activate the microphone, the video camera, or the GPS remotely...On some phones, they can activate the microphone EVEN WHEN THE PHONE IS POWERED OFF! (But the battery remains inside)

It bolsters my confidence in this site to see so many others agreeing.


On GiM1 three years ago this was considered "mind-blowing" information and many disagreed.

[sirgonzo420]

Mark my words, they can activate the microphone, the video camera, or the GPS remotely...On some phones, they can activate the microphone EVEN WHEN THE PHONE IS POWERED OFF! (But the battery remains inside)

It bolsters my confidence in this site to see so many others agreeing.


On GiM1 three years ago this was considered "mind-blowing" information and many disagreed.


Y'all remember this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G1fNjK9SXg

[mick silver]

i just put my phone in a bowl of water ... f it time to move on

[MAGNES]

Mark my words, they can activate the microphone, the video camera, or the GPS remotely...On some phones, they can activate the microphone EVEN WHEN THE PHONE IS POWERED OFF! (But the battery remains inside)

It bolsters my confidence in this site to see so many others agreeing.


On GiM1 three years ago this was considered "mind-blowing" information and many disagreed.


I guarantee you they can ping you with the battery out.

20 years ago in engineering school we were flying light planes operating on microwaves
shot at them, we were students. 20 years later ? With the towers they have everywhere,
many of the phones have smaller hidden power sources like capacitors, a battery maybe
just like a motherboard has one, even if they do not they can pick up microwave power
and use it to send out a ping, a mini burst, they can track you. Battery out.

If you have wifi this is even easier to do for them. Think about it. All antena's are 2 way.
They put out energy and they capture energy.

Non of this really matters to most, if you are a person that may be tracked, be advised.

[chad]

while i am not totally on board with this, it is interesting that the iphone is designed with a sealed battery. you literally cannot take it out.

[platinumdude]

If you don't have an iPhone, You don't have an iPhone. And glad I don't

[chad]

could be worse, you could have an android phone. shit, the software is MADE BY GOOGLE.

[sirgonzo420]

The internet knows all the internet-y things you've done too.

[Buddha]

Women will be more attracted to you if you own an iPhone.

[vacuum]

could be worse, you could have an android phone. shit, the software is MADE BY GOOGLE.

In that case it would have been encrypted and linked to your unique google id number.

[Buddha]

Oh, and I saw this:

Apple crushes Street forecasts, iPad backlogged

Reuters) - Apple Inc's quarterly results again smashed Wall Street's expectations, fueled by record iPhone and Mac sales, offsetting lower-than-expected sales of its iPad tablet computer.

The world's most valuable technology corporation said a record 18.65 million units of the category-defining iPhone -- its flagship product -- moved in the March quarter, outpacing the 16 million or so expected.......

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/20/us-apple-idUSTRE73J0N420110420?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Mark my words, they can activate the microphone, the video camera, or the GPS remotely...On some phones, they can activate the microphone EVEN WHEN THE PHONE IS POWERED OFF! (But the battery remains inside)

It bolsters my confidence in this site to see so many others agreeing.


On GiM1 three years ago this was considered "mind-blowing" information and many disagreed.


I guarantee you they can ping you with the battery out.

20 years ago in engineering school we were flying light planes operating on microwaves
shot at them, we were students. 20 years later ? With the towers they have everywhere,
many of the phones have smaller hidden power sources like capacitors, a battery maybe
just like a motherboard has one, even if they do not they can pick up microwave power
and use it to send out a ping, a mini burst, they can track you. Battery out.

If you have wifi this is even easier to do for them. Think about it. All antena's are 2 way.
They put out energy and they capture energy.

Non of this really matters to most, if you are a person that may be tracked, be advised.



100% agree Magnes, I recently saw a product that turns any wifi signal into usable current. Electromagnetic energy is everywhere these days and it is not a stretch of the imagination that it would adapt a small amount of power from the towers into enough energy for a "where are you?" ping signal.


"HARVESTER" turns wifi signal into electricity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMbihbeIls&feature=player_embedded

[willie pete]

that's the first thing I thought of, why woudl apple or any other company want to put software in their product like that? probably got a billion $$$'s from the govt' for doing it.... :D ....wrap your phone in tinfoil IF you don't want to be tracked ;)

[vacuum]

Mark my words, they can activate the microphone, the video camera, or the GPS remotely...On some phones, they can activate the microphone EVEN WHEN THE PHONE IS POWERED OFF! (But the battery remains inside)

It bolsters my confidence in this site to see so many others agreeing.


On GiM1 three years ago this was considered "mind-blowing" information and many disagreed.


I guarantee you they can ping you with the battery out.

20 years ago in engineering school we were flying light planes operating on microwaves
shot at them, we were students. 20 years later ? With the towers they have everywhere,
many of the phones have smaller hidden power sources like capacitors, a battery maybe
just like a motherboard has one, even if they do not they can pick up microwave power
and use it to send out a ping, a mini burst, they can track you. Battery out.

If you have wifi this is even easier to do for them. Think about it. All antena's are 2 way.
They put out energy and they capture energy.

Non of this really matters to most, if you are a person that may be tracked, be advised.



100% agree Magnes, I recently saw a product that turns any wifi signal into usable current. Electromagnetic energy is everywhere these days and it is not a stretch of the imagination that it would adapt a small amount of power from the towers into enough energy for a "where are you?" ping signal.


"HARVESTER" turns wifi signal into electricity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMbihbeIls&feature=player_embedded


This stuff is real.

I'm an electrical engineer in this field, and I very very serious doubts that a phone could transmit based on harvested power. Technology isn't there yet.

Light planes aren't that hard, people make planes that run for hours based on a single twisted rubber band.

[BabushkaLady]

It's too bad the old Tracfones aren't available anymore. I have three old Nokias with no cameras in them or online abilities. Everyone laughs at all my old technology.

Your other great deals of the year before you're SOL:
An old drum copier with extra toners (no digital record)
A real laser printer not a digital scanner

Consider buying the display model of a laptop with all the apps pre-opened and pre-registered to the store. I'm running on a cash annon laptop sold to "ms. cash" for register receipt. Big deal I have no real warranty without compromising privacy--I know just the right person who could fix me up for a few bennies.

They can't Take your Privacy away, without You being a willing participant.

[MAGNES]

"HARVESTER" turns wifi signal into electricity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMbihbeIls&feature=player_embedded

This stuff is real.


What we are talking about does not just apply to phones, any wifi enabled device they can track you.

There is also secret electronics in a lot of these devices like phones. That's a fact.

Capacitors, small hidden batteries, nothing to that, especially new phones.

A ping out would last micro seconds and just put out a few lines identifying the phone, that's it.

Not to argue with an engineer but the problem is not getting energy, especially for the newer phones.
The problem is storing enough in a mini built in battery, capacitors themselves are energy sources,
maybe not as powerful, this is very doable, the problem is to store just enough energy to send out
a ping. Many of these phones are mini computers too, they can download programs to them, hidden,
they can do a lot.

[MAGNES]

http://www.physorg.com/news182595455.html

PhysOrg.com) -- Airenergy is a gadget that can harvest free electricity from WiFi signals such as those from a wireless Internet connection, apparently with enough efficiency to make it practical for recharging devices such as mobile phones.

At the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas this week a RCA spokesman said they had been able to charge a BlackBerry from 30% charge to fully charged in around 90 minutes using only ambient WiFi signals as the power source, although it was unclear on whether the Airenergy battery was recharged in that time. The Airenergy recharging time depends on the proximity to the WiFi signal and the number of WiFi sources in the vicinity.

The RCA Airenergy unit converts the WiFi antenna signal to DC power to recharge its own internal lithium battery, so it automatically recharges itself whenever the device is anywhere near a WiFi hotspot. If you have a wireless network at home the Airenergy would recharge overnight virtually anywhere in your home. When you need to recharge your phone or other device you plug the Airenergy battery into the phone via USB to transfer the charge.

Harvesting electricity from signals in the air is not new, as anyone who ever built a crystal radio running only on the radio signals it received can testify, but until now no device has been able to harvest enough electricity to make it of practical use. In most modern cities WiFi signal hotspots abound, which might make the Airenergy device a viable option, although in rural areas WiFi sources are less widespread.

A USB charger costing around $40, and about the size of a phone, is expected to be released later this year, with a WiFi-harvesting battery around the same size and price as an OEM battery available shortly after.

----------------

[PatColo]

re buying your puter/laptop for cash, not registering etc, still within a short time on the internets, visiting your usual haunts, logging into your email, bank/broker, favorite BBS, buying anything w/CC, etc the NSA&Co who I figure everything internet is transparent to & logged, they know exactly who you are, the unique hardware identifiers on your puter etc; go piggyback on another wifi or whatever, IP is only part of the info they can & do gather re your hardware, and with those wifi connections, they've got a general record of your whereabouts when your unique hardware has logged into given networks.

THe hardware/software backdoors the big brands build in, in cahoots with the alphabet agencies, are another story again.

Consider your net life totally transparent to big bro;. About the only way I can imagine having a seekrit net life on the side (IE say you want to research something or whatever leaving no identifiable trails) is having a cash-bought cheapo laptop through which you access the nets through various wifi's some ways from home, then never use to access your usual haunts or anything needing login, do any necessary registrations, including opening new web-based email accts from this hardware/connection; you get the idea, & don't ever mix the 2 lives whatsoever with your main home box. And don't bring your cellphone with, or wallet full of RFID's cards, or drive your RFID'd car, to your anon wifi place. For that matter your cheapo anon laptop is surely RFID'd too so keep that in a lead box or something. I don't even know if I've covered every base above, IE your clothes & shoes can be RFID'd... so they've gotta be all freshly cash bought from the thrift shop... again you get the idea.

Could go to the public library, or pay cash @ kinkos or a net cafe (less common in the West but ubiquitous in developing countries), then have your seekrit net life there, I guess... only a guess though. You'd prolly still be identifiable via the various RFIDs you unknowingly carry around.

RFID Dust in vaccine? (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message899832/pg1)

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUAiWTQbOHQutSpRLsXpAdVWBfLaD3t d5t_0fUwmYUNuZbMlgr&t=1

http://www.spychips.com/

[vacuum]

http://www.physorg.com/news182595455.html

PhysOrg.com) -- Airenergy is a gadget that can harvest free electricity from WiFi signals such as those from a wireless Internet connection, apparently with enough efficiency to make it practical for recharging devices such as mobile phones.

At the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas this week a RCA spokesman said they had been able to charge a BlackBerry from 30% charge to fully charged in around 90 minutes using only ambient WiFi signals as the power source, although it was unclear on whether the Airenergy battery was recharged in that time. The Airenergy recharging time depends on the proximity to the WiFi signal and the number of WiFi sources in the vicinity.

The RCA Airenergy unit converts the WiFi antenna signal to DC power to recharge its own internal lithium battery, so it automatically recharges itself whenever the device is anywhere near a WiFi hotspot. If you have a wireless network at home the Airenergy would recharge overnight virtually anywhere in your home. When you need to recharge your phone or other device you plug the Airenergy battery into the phone via USB to transfer the charge.

Harvesting electricity from signals in the air is not new, as anyone who ever built a crystal radio running only on the radio signals it received can testify, but until now no device has been able to harvest enough electricity to make it of practical use. In most modern cities WiFi signal hotspots abound, which might make the Airenergy device a viable option, although in rural areas WiFi sources are less widespread.

A USB charger costing around $40, and about the size of a phone, is expected to be released later this year, with a WiFi-harvesting battery around the same size and price as an OEM battery available shortly after.

----------------



While the article supports your point, I must point out that their claims are completely unrealistic and false. An access point puts out about 100 mW max. If you were to physically remove the antenna and connect a cable directly into the charger, there wouldn't be enough power to charge a phone from 30 - 100% in 90 minutes. Here is a comment from that page:


I call total and Complete Bull on this product.

I am a RFID Engineer. I design energy harvesting circuitry. These claims are completely, out of Ball Park, unreasonable.

Lets us look at the basic physics. A BalckBerry battery has a capacity of roughly 1 A hr. With a terminal voltage of 3.3 V, to go from 30% charged to 100% represents an energy of about 8 kJoules. For the charger to supply this in 90 min the charging power would have to be over 1.5 Watts. The radiated power at a WiFi transmitter is 0.1 watts.
FCC part 15 regulations allow 1 watt of average radiated power, but this is out of the 802.11 spec. Normal wifi router and laptop access points radiate some where between .01 and .1 watt.

The fraction of energy that you can capture a few feed away from the such a transmitting antenna is at most a few milliwatts. Perhaps a few tens of milliwatts if their antenna was a few inches form the transmitting antenna. This would necessarily impair the operation of the wifi transmitter.

Reading the article closely they say "although it was unclear on whether the Airenergy battery was recharged in that time". So what they did is let this thing sit 1 ft away from an access point for a week charge its internal battery, then at the show just plugged one battery into the other.

Trust me, this isn't possible. And this is coming from someone who's into free energy too.

[PatColo]

iPhone Keeps Track Of Every Little Place You Go (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/20/135570632/researchers-apples-iphone-keeps-track-of-every-little-place-you-go) (npr.org) - couple video clips inside

[SHTF2010]

[b]Harvesting electricity from signals in the air is not new,


a genius ahead of his time

http://alternativeenergyreviewsite.com/images/Nikola%20Tesla.jpg

[BabushkaLady]

re buying your puter/laptop for cash, not registering etc, still within a short time on the internets, visiting your usual haunts, logging into your email, bank/broker, favorite BBS, buying anything w/CC, etc the NSA&Co who I figure everything internet is transparent to & logged, they know exactly who you are, the unique hardware identifiers on your puter etc; go piggyback on another wifi or whatever, IP is only part of the info they can & do gather re your hardware, and with those wifi connections, they've got a general record of your whereabouts when your unique hardware has logged into given networks.


It is absolutely pointless to go to the trouble to keep an annon laptop and then turnaround and do ANY personal business on it. Anyone really concerned with real privacy Doesn't do online banking; bill paying; or EVER enter their real name with address or other real information.

Logging into usual haunts leaves a record; But in and of itself, doesn't identify Who You Really Are.

The same can be said of the annon grocery discount card; sure they track what you bought. They just don't know who you are; as long as you always pay cash.

Privacy isn't cheap or convenient.

[dys]

A few months ago my old man witnessed a serious accident. His passenger called the police. The police requested that my old man and his passenger stick around to give a witness statement. The police told them, "we'll be right there." The passenger asked, "How do you know where we are?" Instead of answering, the police just said, "You are on the corner of X and Y street, we'll be right there."
The call was not made from Iphone.

dys

[Awoke]

"Apple has made it possible for almost anybody – a jealous spouse, a private detective – with access to your phone or computer to get detailed information about where you've been," said Pete Warden, one of the researchers.

A jealous spouse is the last thing I would be worried about.

[DMac]

Don't forget every picture taken with a smart phone includes the GPS coordinates of where the photo was taken embedded in the data.

[Ares]

Don't forget every picture taken with a smart phone includes the GPS coordinates of where the photo was taken embedded in the data.




That's called Geo-tagging, and that's only the case if you have the location services turned on. I do not for my droid, and I have checked the pictures for geo tagged information and they've come up clean.

[PatColo]

re buying your puter/laptop for cash, not registering etc, still within a short time on the internets, visiting your usual haunts, logging into your email, bank/broker, favorite BBS, buying anything w/CC, etc the NSA&Co who I figure everything internet is transparent to & logged, they know exactly who you are, the unique hardware identifiers on your puter etc; go piggyback on another wifi or whatever, IP is only part of the info they can & do gather re your hardware, and with those wifi connections, they've got a general record of your whereabouts when your unique hardware has logged into given networks.


It is absolutely pointless to go to the trouble to keep an annon laptop and then turnaround and do ANY personal business on it. Anyone really concerned with real privacy Doesn't do online banking; bill paying; or EVER enter their real name with address or other real information.

Logging into usual haunts leaves a record; But in and of itself, doesn't identify Who You Really Are.

The same can be said of the annon grocery discount card; sure they track what you bought. They just don't know who you are; as long as you always pay cash.

Privacy isn't cheap or convenient.



Wandering further afield WRT the OP perhaps, but on the grocery store discount cards, "not having one" is not really an option given the steep discounts, 2-for-1s etc often associated with them. There's simply mucho buckage to be saved with cart full of discerningly chosen goodies you'll actually eat/use. And "always paying cash" is also inevitably inconvenient.

My solution has been, having two club cards: one for credit/debit, and one for cash. The cash one is initially registered with a bunch of "John Doe" dookey, most of it left blank even.

You can't ever "spoil" your cash club-card by slipping up & using it while paying with credit which would then identify all past purchases on that formerly anon card, and merge that historic purchase-pattern data with your real card. And that formerly anon cash card is also spoiled for future purchases, should you continue using it after its "once-anonymity has been spoiled". Juggling 2 club cards in your wallet, identical looking except for the number, can be tricky. So you could go for wallet vs keychain versions, or have the anon/cash card (or the real one) associated with a (fake) phone number you can remember, then enter that phone # at the point of purchase in lieu of having the card.

This is a lot of hoop jumping, when at least at this stage, it would appear that big bro (or ostensibly, just that grocery corp) having a record of your food buying patterns would be relatively benign. In fact I believe part of the PR pitch is, they then print custom coupons for you at checkout, handed to you with your receipt, promoting/discounting "the kind of stuff you like". The "bribe" to have and use the cards would appear to be irresistible. The dark side of this particular "data gathering & storage" story for the consumer mostly eludes me. So my resistance to it is mostly just instinctual: private is just innately better- I don't need to understand the full game in play. So I labor to "take the bait and leave the hook".

Now don't get me going on the self-checkout lines- short version is, why don't they "incentivize" self-checkout (IE, you save 3% or $3 whichever's less), which saves the store the checkout-clerk wages leaving a higher unemployment figure; but then they don't pass that savings on; it seems it just goes straight to the suits at corporate, shareholders etc..?!? I admit I've used self-checkouts, when I've calculated that, due to store traffic at the given time, I'll get out the door significantly faster via self-checkout. It's still annoying, they're so touchy, "friendly computer voice" ordering you around, & I'm lucky to get through a checkout without the clerk having to come over and cancel out some false alarm, etc.

[BabushkaLady]

Wandering further afield WRT the OP perhaps, but on the grocery store discount cards, "not having one" is not really an option given the steep discounts, 2-for-1s etc often associated with them. There's simply mucho buckage to be saved with cart full of discerningly chosen goodies you'll actually eat/use. And "always paying cash" is also inevitably inconvenient.

My solution has been, having two club cards: one for credit/debit, and one for cash. The cash one is initially registered with a bunch of "John Doe" dookey, most of it left blank even.

.........

Now don't get me going on the self-checkout lines- short version is, why don't they "incentivize" self-checkout (IE, you save 3% or $3 whichever's less), which saves the store the checkout-clerk wages leaving a higher unemployment figure; but then they don't pass that savings on; it seems it just goes straight to the suits at corporate, shareholders etc..?!? I admit I've used self-checkouts, when I've calculated that, due to store traffic at the given time, I'll get out the door significantly faster via self-checkout. It's still annoying, they're so touchy, "friendly computer voice" ordering you around, & I'm lucky to get through a checkout without the clerk having to come over and cancel out some false alarm, etc.


I don't think of Cash as Inconvenient!! I like to have plenty on me for whatever may pop up! Visa/MC/Disc doesn't make any profits on my transactions or know what I like to spend my money on.

I like your idea of two cards, but you're still playing their game for convenience.

I agree 100% on the self-check out aisle. I won't participate until I get a discount and have told them so.

[Son-of-Liberty]

A few months ago my old man witnessed a serious accident. His passenger called the police. The police requested that my old man and his passenger stick around to give a witness statement. The police told them, "we'll be right there." The passenger asked, "How do you know where we are?" Instead of answering, the police just said, "You are on the corner of X and Y street, we'll be right there."
The call was not made from Iphone.

dys


The cell phone bills here in Canada have a 75 cent 911 charge to pay for the tracking supposedly. It isn't really a secret. Want to go somewhere or talk to someone in private leave your phone at home. I usually leave my phone in the truck when I am working or even shopping. At home it stays by the door. Having it strapped to your hip so it can fry your balls all day well they listen in on you is just dumb.

[hoarder]

There was a discussion on another forum about making a "holster" out of aluminum foil in which to place your cell phone to avoid being tracked. You can't receive calls while holstered.

[PatColo]

"Alasdair has looked for similar tracking code in [Google's] Android phones and couldn't find any," said Warden. "



How wide does this go? Now Google devices 'found to transmit user locations back to the company' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1379597/Privacy-Googles-Android-HTC-mobile-phone-transmits-user-locations-company.html)

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 9:01 PM on 22nd April 2011

[sirgonzo420]

Don't ALL cell phone companies know where ALL the phones they service are?

[vacuum]

Don't ALL cell phone companies know where ALL the phones they service are?



The carriers do, who own the cell network. But it seems that the phone manufacturers now are as well....as well as all their "partners and licensees", which is comprised of hundreds of companies. The network operators were never using the info for advertising either, and they also weren't hosting your email, search history, etc.

[Son of Dave]

As far as grocery discount cards go. I myself have about 5 unique ones I rotate out. It's Kroger. I have one bound to my old phone number from way back when. I have literally found THREE unique Kroger cards in the parking lot. You know they toss it in the bag of the new customer, they toss it, or forget it. And one old ratty one I found inside the store no less.

Certain cards I reserve for certain purchases, and the coupons reflect that. And I'm pretty sure if you use a credit card or debit card amongst many different frequent shopper cards, it will somehow "Link" those cards together. So if you're going to do musical Kroger cards, make sure you use cash.

Why do I do all this? Because I'm strange, and it's fun to see how the store reacts to certain inputs. I especially love seeing discounts on toilet paper on the card I buy all the hot pockets with.

That being said, I don't think Kroger is necessarily evil, they're probably one of the more upstanding stores in terms of customer privacy/relations. It's just so dang easy to find all their frequent shopper cards lying all over the place! And when I pick one of the cards up off the parking lot tarmac, instantly the James Bond theme starts playing in my head. BAAA DAAH da DAAAAA!

[sirgonzo420]

I'm glad you've found your way back home, Dave.


:)

[Son of Dave]

I'm glad you've found your way back home, Dave.


:)


GIM2 just kinda turned into one big blowhard fest. And coupled with the ADs and the mod's attitudes. I couldn't take it anymore. And I admit, I was quite the pantywaist when I deleted my original account here, but I just didn't want to trudge through page after page of frothing lunatic commentary. Hopefully GSUS will foster the accumulation of just the right amount of philosophers, scientists, pastors, jesters, and loons to keep the whole thing interesting without turning into some ridiculously hateful tsunami of shit.

Anyways good to be "back" as it were. Thanks.

[PatColo]

Rent To Buy Company Aaron’s Spies On PC Users (http://theintelhub.com/2011/05/04/police-state-rent-to-buy-company-aarons-spies-on-pc-users/)


Americans, Everything You Do Is Monitored (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/americans-everything-you-do-is-monitored_05052011)