Question regarding Hand gesture of Baphomet and Christ

[undgrd]

I want to first say I'm writing this because I'm truly curious and would like an informed answer. Anyone thinking I'm trying to flame or start shit is wrong.

It's been stated before how pictures of Baphomet and Christ share similar hand gestures. Looking around I noticed that the Baphomet gesture of the right hand points outward while the Christ gesture of the right hand points inward.

This got me thinking.

Why would the church allow such a similar image be created and used?
Are they not aware of the similarity?
Are the Christ images older and the Baphomet images played off the older Christ images?

Then I got a though that bothered me. Could these images be showing intent? Could both good and evil be drawing strength from the same source? Is the intent or works the important part to focus on? I've read information regarding works but is there any scripture dealing with the source of the strength of good and evil??? Anything on intent?

Steeling a car to get a friend to the hospital is different than taking it for a joy ride...but I still stole a car.
Nuclear Energy can be used to destroy a city or power it for a lifetime.

I hate to say this because it sounds stupid but...something like Starwars? The Force was available to anyone to tap in to...what you did with it was on you...for better or worse. Most would agree Darth Vadar was evil and Luke was good...same source of strength with different intent.

[sirgonzo420]

Interesting thread...


"the road to hell is paved with good intentions"

[Santa]

Is this the gesture you're referring to?


The oldest known surviving example of the icon of Christ Pantocrator was painted in encaustic on panel in the sixth or seventh century, and survived the period of destruction of images during the Iconoclastic disputes that twice racked the Eastern church, 726 to 787 and 814 to 842, by being preserved in the remote desert of the Sinai, in Saint Catherine's Monastery.[6] The gessoed panel, finely painted using a wax medium on a wooden panel, had been coarsely overpainted around the face and hands at some time around the thirteenth century. It was only when the overpainting was cleaned in 1962 that the ancient image was revealed to be a very high quality icon, probably produced in Constantinople. The subtlety, immediacy and realism of the image are immediately apparent when the image is compared to any of the more familiar stiffened and hieratic icons — following the same model — that were painted after iconoclasm had been decisively rejected. Christ here is Christ the Teacher: the gesture of Christ's right hand is not the gesture of blessing, but the orator's gesture; the identical gesture is to be seen in a panel from an ivory diptych of an enthroned vice-prefect, a Rufius Probianus, ca 400, of which Peter Brown remarks, "With his hand he makes the 'orator's gesture' which indicates that he is speaking, or that he has the right to speak."

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/jackconrad/junk/c1be80fd.jpg

[G2Rad]

This got me thinking.

Why would the church allow such a similar image be created and used?
Are they not aware of the similarity?
Are the Christ images older and the Baphomet images played off the older Christ images?

Then I got a though that bothered me. Could these images be showing intent? Could both good and evil be drawing strength from the same source? Is the intent or works the important part to focus on? I've read information regarding works but is there any scripture dealing with the source of the strength of good and evil??? Anything on intent?


you are at the false door.
Satan is in charge of every religion of the Matrix.
He is the master of creating and colliding scores of controlled oppositions.
He got all sorts of "Christianities" lined up for all tastes. Take your pick.

[G2Rad]

The Bible is the only genuine red pill and the true way out of the Matrix.

[bellevuebully]

you are at the false door.
Satan is in charge of every religion of the Matrix.
He is the master of creating and colliding scores of controlled oppositions.
He got all sorts of "Christianities" lined up for all tastes. Take your pick.



^^^What G2Rad said.

[dys]

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:"
Exodus 20:4

dys

[undgrd]

you are at the false door.
Satan is in charge of every religion of the Matrix.
He is the master of creating and colliding scores of controlled oppositions.
He got all sorts of "Christianities" lined up for all tastes. Take your pick.



If he's in charge of all religions in the matrix, why does a book exist in one of them that would show you the way out?

[G2Rad]

If he's in charge of all religions in the matrix, why does a book exist in one of them that would show you the way out?


Satan (the accuser) is forced to play by the rules. Devil (the usurper) is not all mighty.

The true red pill is available for the diligent seeker.

God promised to keep the true door open. So He delivers.

And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away (Mark 13:31)

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalm 12:6-7)

[G2Rad]

book exists independent of all religions

[D sciple]

[/quote]

If he's in charge of all religions in the matrix, why does a book exist in one of them that would show you the way out?
[/quote]

Here's a book that explains how you got "in" and and also clarifies the way out. http://www.jahtruth.net/twh.pdf. There's no viruses, check it out.

This author makes big claims but their hard to refute and hard to ignore. Mind blowing really.

[ximmy]

I found this pic on the interwebs...

[G2Rad]

Here's a book that explains how you got "in" and and also clarifies the way out. http://www.jahtruth.net/twh.pdf. There's no viruses, check it out.

This author makes big claims but their hard to refute and hard to ignore. Mind blowing really.


the author of that pdf seems to repeats same old Satan's garden lies about man eventually becoming Jesus/God.

evolution into godhood through enlightenment, the same idea that is behind Buddhism, Science, Mormonism, Humanism, Communism, Atheism, etc.

[D sciple]

Here's a book that explains how you got "in" and and also clarifies the way out. http://www.jahtruth.net/twh.pdf. There's no viruses, check it out.

This author makes big claims but their hard to refute and hard to ignore. Mind blowing really.


the author of that pdf seems to repeats same old Satan's garden lies about man eventually becoming Jesus/God.

evolution into godhood through enlightenment, the same idea that is behind Buddhism, Science, Mormonism, Humanism, Communism, Atheism, etc.



Not even close. Did you read it? Give me something to work with here like a quote or something.

O.K. now I'm coming back to this a couple hours later. I think I see your hangup. You don't don't see Jesus as a role model.

You have no use for scriptures like "A student isn't greater than his master but when he is fully trained he will be just like him" or 'be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect" or "pick up your cross and follow me." In other words, you believe in him, but you don't believe him.

Recall that many times when His disciples were expected to do miracles and such and when they couldn't, it seemed as if He ridiculed them and said "Ye men of little faith" as if it was like "Come on guys this is standard."

[bellevuebully]

After spending about 2 minutes scrolling, I would say Mr. Hill is SDA. I'll peruse with more intent at a later time.

[G2Rad]

Here's a book that explains how you got "in" and and also clarifies the way out. http://www.jahtruth.net/twh.pdf. There's no viruses, check it out.

This author makes big claims but their hard to refute and hard to ignore. Mind blowing really.


the author of that pdf seems to repeats same old Satan's garden lies about man eventually becoming Jesus/God.

evolution into godhood through enlightenment, the same idea that is behind Buddhism, Science, Mormonism, Humanism, Communism, Atheism, etc.



Not even close. Did you read it? Give me something to work with here like a quote or something.



I can not copy and paste examples for you, because the guy disabled copying.

here are couple:

Chapter 2 sentence 2.3 --- "we are to regain our divinity".

end of chapter eight - "you have to become Jesus"

[D sciple]

Here's a book that explains how you got "in" and and also clarifies the way out. http://www.jahtruth.net/twh.pdf. There's no viruses, check it out.

This author makes big claims but their hard to refute and hard to ignore. Mind blowing really.


the author of that pdf seems to repeats same old Satan's garden lies about man eventually becoming Jesus/God.

evolution into godhood through enlightenment, the same idea that is behind Buddhism, Science, Mormonism, Humanism, Communism, Atheism, etc.



Not even close. Did you read it? Give me something to work with here like a quote or something.



I can not copy and paste examples for you, because the guy disabled copying.

here are couple:

Chapter 2 sentence 2.3 --- "we are to regain our divinity".

end of chapter eight - "you have to become Jesus"



That's pretty dishonest of you. (This is a pretty good piece on lying IMO http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/live-not-by-lies/).

In ch 2 2:3 after he writes divinity he inserts (immortality) explaining his meaning of the usage there. Even if he didn't make that insertion, I think one could state that an Angel was divine and therefore returning to you former Angelic state would be returning to your former "divine" nature. John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven."
That's king James version with no alterations or insertions by me.

The part in ch 8 he explains in an esoteric way the progression of the Bible, stating you have to become Abraham, then Isaac, then Jacob, then Moses, then the Prophets, and finally Jesus.

Also what do you do with the post I made above this one?

[Awoke]

Deification of man as a god is one of the many masonic tilestones in the roadway to hell.
I will write more on this later.



The Father created us in his image with the purpose to adore and glorify him. (Not because we are equal to Him, or will ever become Him, or become equal to Him) Even after we die and make it into heaven, we will do nothing more than glorify Him and praise His name.

We have all failed to the point that following the law of the old Testament would no longer be enough to pardon our erroneous ways, and therefore the only way to save us from damnation was for the Lord to come to earth in the flesh as Christ, and be the ultimate sacrifice, therefore putting an end to the old ways of blood splattered sacrifices on the alter.

Happy Easter, my Christian brothers!

[Awoke]

But regarding the hand gestures you originally asked about, Undgrd, bear in mind that these painting are done by men, and men are fallible. Some would pretend to be Christians but actually be Lucferians, and could produce many paintings in the hopes to delude Christians.

[dys]

Deification of man as a god is one of the many masonic tilestones in the roadway to hell.
I will write more on this later.



The Father created us in his image with the purpose to adore and glorify him. (Not because we are equal to Him, or will ever become Him, or become equal to Him) Even after we die and make it into heaven, we will do nothing more than glorify Him and praise His name.

We have all failed to the point that following the law of the old Testament would no longer be enough to pardon our erroneous ways, and therefore the only way to save us from damnation was for the Lord to come to earth in the flesh as Christ, and be the ultimate sacrifice, therefore putting an end to the old ways of blood splattered sacrifices on the alter.

Happy Easter, my Christian brothers!

Happy Easter to you, too. God bless you and your family.

dys

[D sciple]

Deification of man as a god is one of the many masonic tilestones in the roadway to hell.
I will write more on this later.



The Father created us in his image with the purpose to adore and glorify him. (Not because we are equal to Him, or will ever become Him, or become equal to Him) Even after we die and make it into heaven, we will do nothing more than glorify Him and praise His name.

We have all failed to the point that following the law of the old Testament would no longer be enough to pardon our erroneous ways, and therefore the only way to save us from damnation was for the Lord to come to earth in the flesh as Christ, and be the ultimate sacrifice, therefore putting an end to the old ways of blood splattered sacrifices on the alter.

Happy Easter, my Christian brothers!

Happy Easter to you, too. God bless you and your family.

dys


Yea I'm aware of the standard protestant gospel interpretation.

Broad is the way and wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many are those who enter.

Just lay off the false accusations. Some of us are actually trying to learn something from Jesus.

[Awoke]

Yea I'm aware of the standard protestant gospel interpretation.

Broad is the way and wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many are those who enter.

Just lay off the false accusations. Some of us are actually trying to learn something from Jesus.



What false accusations?
Please, tell me the ever-so-wise SDA interpretation of what Jesus Christ came here for.

[undgrd]

But regarding the hand gestures you originally asked about, Undgrd, bear in mind that these painting are done by men, and men are fallible. Some would pretend to be Christians but actually be Lucferians, and could produce many paintings in the hopes to delude Christians.


Excellent point!

[D sciple]

Yea I'm aware of the standard protestant gospel interpretation.

Broad is the way and wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many are those who enter.

Just lay off the false accusations. Some of us are actually trying to learn something from Jesus.



What false accusations?
Please, tell me the ever-so-wise SDA interpretation of what Jesus Christ came here for.


I am not SDA. The SDA did not give us the Law. Your whole thought process is flawed just like the reasoning and accusation demonstrated here.

In a nutshell Jesus came to show you the truth and the book I recommended explains that truth more clearly or elaborately than I ever could.

[D sciple]

Hmm, I think I rushed through my posts in this thread a little too much, perhaps similar to the SDA accusations. I apologize.

However you sound like an adherant of Judaism with your "Hey this guy claims he's the son of God" type arguments"

I'm about to go on a trip today and I really don't have much time to do better than that for now.

[Awoke]

OK, you're evading. I asked you, what false accusations?

[silver solution]

The Bible is the only genuine red pill and the true way out of the Matrix.
It's really the Blue pill that is Good and the red pill that is bad.

Blue is Gods color and red is satans color.

Movie had it wrong?

[G2Rad]

Movie had it wrong?


Movie the Matrix is UnHollywood-made story about coming of Antichrist.
Antichrist (Neo) will set himself up at Zion against God's will.
Zion is the name of the city in the movie. Zion worships him in the movie.
The death of the forerunner will be followed by his miraculous resurrection.
The same happens to Neo after he was killed by Agent Smith
The false prophet (Morpheus, one of Satanic trinity) predicts that Neo is THE ONE.
The next world war is going to be in the Middle East. Antichrist (Neo) got to save Zion (Israel) and establish peace by crushing Muslims, who replicate like demonic agent Smith.
Notice how Satan (the Architect character) cringed at the thought of peace at the end of the third episode
The false peace that Neo gives with the machine-world will be broken half way through (3.5 years).

“Frustrating anomaly”.
Quote "There was a man who could do things in the Matrix before Neo".
Notice, that Neo was the 7th iteration of the "frustrating anomaly", which was causing the Architect (Satan) so much frustration.
Notice that Christ is the frustrating anomaly in the world of today and of 2000 years ago, and many false iterations were after Him.
Notice that “Nebuchadnezzar” was their ship in the Matrix
The red pill of the movie is more like taking the mark of the beast
Notice how well Satan knows the Bible.
The movie is a forerunner made to test mass-psycho reaction to what is planned to happen and to work out minor details. Its slow slow slow corruption / preparation. What was unthinkable before now is trivial.

[Awoke]

Wow. You just ruined the whole "take the red pill" saying for truth seekers and contitutionalists!

[dys]

Wow. You just ruined the whole "take the red pill" saying for truth seekers and contitutionalists!


The following bible quote seems relevant to me based on Grad's post:

And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Mark 3:23-26

dys

[Ragnarok]

I want to first say I'm writing this because I'm truly curious and would like an informed answer. Anyone thinking I'm trying to flame or start shit is wrong.

It's been stated before how pictures of Baphomet and Christ share similar hand gestures. Looking around I noticed that the Baphomet gesture of the right hand points outward while the Christ gesture of the right hand points inward.

This got me thinking.

Go me thinking too, seeing as the only "pictures" of Christ are not photographs - they are images painted or drawn by men of their conceptions of Christ.

Therefore, no one alive today knows exactly what hand gestures were used by Christ.

Of Baphomet, I have no idea.

Hope this helps,
R.

[bellevuebully]

[/i] - they are [i]images painted or drawn by men

Everything we witness in the world, save the natural environment, the Word, and the fruits of the Spirit, are man-created.

[G2Rad]

here is another Matrix to discern

another movie channeled strait from Hell

Recall the "counterfeit world" of "The Trumen Show" movie ( Jim Carrey )

The film chronicles the life of a man who is initially unaware that he is living in a constructed reality television show

Now notice that when Trumen finaly gets enlightened by the falling "star" (Sirius) he sails across the sea
and he climbs 18 steps of the stairway "to heaven"

in another words, he ascends six steps plus six steps plus six steps and now he is free ( before he was bound in the MATRIX (fake world))

food for thought ......

[G2Rad]

Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.

[G2Rad]

Pausing at an intersection in a quiet, working-class suburban
street, a spherical glass object suddenly falls from the sky and
lands with a deafening crash on the roadway, several yards in
front of his idling car.

Truman exits the Oldsmobile to investigate. Amidst a sea of
shattered glass are the remains of a light mechanism.

He looks around him but the street is deserted. He checks that
all the surrounding streetlights are accounted for, even though
the fallen fixture is far larger. He looks up into the sky but
there is no plane in sight. With some effort, Truman picks up
what's left of the crumpled light, loads it into the trunk of
his car and drives away.

[keehah]

Back to hand gestures for a bit.

So there are three houses between me and a church.
Church is a wood framed building, like the (older) houses but with less insulation.

10:00 Sunday morning with the Church in session guy is out weed eating his overgrown lawn with a weed eater that sounds like a chainsaw. Does he not realize how many of us are associating, and even meditating on the association, that he is personified evil?
:D
___________





Movie had it wrong?


Movie the Matrix is UnHollywood-made story about coming of Antichrist.
Antichrist (Neo) will set himself up at Zion against God's will.
Zion is the name of the city in the movie. Zion worships him in the movie.
The death of the forerunner will be followed by his miraculous resurrection.
The same happens to Neo after he was killed by Agent Smith..

The red pill of the movie is more like taking the mark of the beast
Notice how well Satan knows the Bible.
The movie is a forerunner made to test mass-psycho reaction to what is planned to happen and to work out minor details. Its slow slow slow corruption / preparation. What was unthinkable before now is trivial.


That got me thinking, in a similar vein, Agent Smith can represent communism.

Great post, I agree with that and most of your great insight about the movies.

The Bible is the only genuine red pill and the true way out of the Matrix.
But if the movie plot matrix is build on the Bible's matrix, could you not see how some logically then can see the bible as one of the older forms of the matrix?

[G2Rad]

Great post, I agree with that and most of your great insight about the movies.

The Bible is the only genuine red pill and the true way out of the Matrix.
But if the movie plot matrix is build on the Bible's matrix, could you not see how some logically then can see the bible as one of the older forms of the matrix?

There is the Matrix, which is this Universe.
There are two competing camps.

Those two movies are explained examples of psyops one of the sides of the war performed.
That side is allowed to create and run unlimited amount of such psyops projects.
In fact they are allowed full control, including physical removal of the subjects.
The other side voluntarily limited its “presence” (in the “Matrix”) to a single, constant “venue” called the Bible.
On destruction of the Bible hangs fate of the "gods" party, lets call them "dwellers of the Earth".
The task seems easy because the other side, is strictly bound by rules (unlike Earth side) and published all its moves in advance.
Yet, so far “Earth-dwelling” side has been unsuccessful.
"Pride of humanity" is at stake.