explain to me the dtcc

[chad]

my banker cousin maintains that even if you own stocks, you do not really own them. a company named the DTCC (depository trust & clearing corporation owns them). he says that although the stocks may be registered in your name, the DTCC actually holds ownership to them through a company named Cede & Company.

he told me to "try and get an actual stock certificate with your name on it if you don't believe me."

according to him, the DTCC "owns" almost al of the stocks in the entire world.

i bring this up because if true, would make the confiscation of 401ks, IRAs, etc. all that much easier.

have any of you heard of this?

[midnight rambler]

Your banker cousin is right.


"try and get an actual stock certificate with your name on it if you don't believe me."

When one enters the WS Casino and 'makes a purchase' of 'stock', one is not issued a document which says 'one share of XYZ stock', one is issued a 'Certificate of Stock'. A certificate is a document certifying that something exists, but the certification/certificate isn't what it 'certifies' to be in existence. A prime example of this concept is the so-called 'ownership document' for your automobile - it says 'Certificate of Title' across the top of it, however if it were actually a 'title' it would simply say 'Title' across the top (or 'Manufacturer's Certificate [or Origin], as that document is considered the original ownership document for an automobile).

"The terms title and interest are not synonymous." --Black's Law Dictionary, 4th Ed.

I maintain, and have every reason to believe, that the corporate state is operating a cestui que trust in all instances of property ownership (except in those very rare cases where someone has taken pains to avoid the cestui que trust scheme), and instead of being an 'absolute owner' one is reduced to merely 'owning' only a 'beneficial interest' in the property, i.e. where one party (the legal owner) holds title while a 'beneficial owner' gets to reap the benefits, such as rent, stock dividends, etc.

Title - if you don't hold it, then you don't own it.

[osoab]

my banker cousin maintains that even if you own stocks, you do not really own them. a company named the DTCC (depository trust & clearing corporation owns them). he says that although the stocks may be registered in your name, the DTCC actually holds ownership to them through a company named Cede & Company.

he told me to "try and get an actual stock certificate with your name on it if you don't believe me."

according to him, the DTCC "owns" almost al of the stocks in the entire world.

i bring this up because if true, would make the confiscation of 401ks, IRAs, etc. all that much easier.

have any of you heard of this?


I remember Roby Noel saying that he held the actual certificates for AEM (Agnico Eagle) that he was passing to his grandkids/family.

[Sparky]

Furthermore, if you sign up with an online trading account, in the fine print you give them permission to let your shares be borrowed so that other traders can use your shares to go short.

I believe there is a mechanism to get your actual certificates, but it takes a long time (months?) and is only practical if you want the security of a long term hold. Jim Sinclair is always urging people in the paper gold market to get their paper certificates and hold on to them. Again, this is not practical if you are trading swings in price movement.

[JJ.G0ldD0t]

sounds like Stock Certs = Casino Chips


Is that over-simplified?

[midnight rambler]

BTW, I recently had a need to 'certify' some original negotiable documents for a court case, and the name of the Affidavit which someone submitted to me for me to use was 'Certification of Original Document by Document Custodian' (that says it all right there). The copies I made and certified were NOT the original negotiable documents and therefore could not be transferred. When I was going 'round and 'round with TxDOT over getting a 'Texas tag' for my new automobile (at the time), they refused to accept a certified copy of the Manufacturer's Certificate, they wanted the original.

If you do a search on DTC and CEDE you will find a number of sites exposing the scheme.

[osoab]

Furthermore, if you sign up with an online trading account, in the fine print you give them permission to let your shares be borrowed so that other traders can use your shares to go short.

I believe there is a mechanism to get your actual certificates, but it takes a long time (months?) and is only practical if you want the security of a long term hold. Jim Sinclair is always urging people in the paper gold market to get their paper certificates and hold on to them. Again, this is not practical if you are trading swings in price movement.


I read a post over at kitco. This poster sets all of their penny stocks as a limit sale, this way the stocks cannot be shorted.

[midnight rambler]

And another thing - if you must go through a 3rd party to sell/transfer your share(s) of stock to someone else, then obviously you don't truly 'own' it.

[cthulu]

b-b-but i got all these shares in these corporations, slv, and gld! :lol:

[ArgenteumTelum]

Please excuse any errors in this information as I don't trade and own no stocks. This was a theme Mr. Sinclair addressed a while back and I'll recall as best I can. He advised, if I recall properly, to take ownership of shares directly, if possible. This is becoming exceedingly more difficult to do and involves additional expense on your part. I believe the second best thing was to have your buy/sells recorded as a "book entry on the books of the transfer agent in YOUR name". Short of these actions, I think I understand that your brokerage or some other middle entity actually has title to the shares you believe you own. This is truly worth a deeper investigation by you to determine if the actuality of title ownership satisfies your risk concerns.

[MAGNES]

This was a theme Mr. Sinclair addressed a while back and I'll recall as best I can. He advised, if I recall properly, to take ownership of shares directly, if possible.


You are right on all counts, it is not just Sinclair covering it.

Clearing operations are involved and decide who owns and who is registered for shares,
they don't move location, only digits in cyberspace. This brings up lots of ears for those
paying attention to issues. Things are so corrupt you gotta wonder and people have.

The old gim had many good key eye opening threads on this.

" if you don't hold it you don't own it " applies here and was discussed.

Especially when holding many of the juniors and minors.