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mick silver
25th April 2011, 06:16 PM
i call this bs ........................ http://www.321gold.com/editorials/taylor_m/taylor_m_042511.html ... Mark Taylor
aka Zorro
Apr 25, 2011

The chart below is a picture of the silver market... now read its story.



Having risen from an average price of $5.00 to $46.05 an ounce, it is only reasonable that one question what may be occurring in the silver market. A well read Investor will certainly have considered many explanations as to why the price of silver has increased over the past 7 years. The most common argument for this, is an extreme shortage of the metal. Without a doubt, if there is a shortage of silver in the market, one would expect the price to rise. Let's take a look.

Below is a trusted account of supply and demand statistics. I say trusted because everyone from market technicians to the US geological survey (USGS) relies on this data. This data is from the Silver Institute and can be seen at their website.

World Silver Supply and Demand
(in millions of ounces)



As you can see, demand for silver has been quite steady for most of the past decade. However, the year 2010 experienced a 190.8 million ounce increase in demand from an average of 866 million ounces per year from 2001 – 2009. Please note that whether it was through mine production, government sales, or reclaimed scrap, all silver demand was met.

Of particular interest is the data from the following four categories; implied net investment, coins and medals, silverware, and jewelry. The importance of these categories lies in the fact that the listed amounts of silver must be seen as actual above ground supply. To imagine that it is not available as recoverable scrap or investment grade silver, is a huge mistake.

We will start with implied net investment. This category includes physical silver that is held by an ETF such as SLV, a fund such as CEF or PSLV, and silver held in various commodity warehouses such as COMEX and TOCOM. The total amount of investment silver (spanning a ten year period) at the end of 2010, was 471.2 million ounces. Interested (as you may be) in more recent figures, I conducted a search of these various funds and commodity exchanges on March 11, 2011 and found that 486,697,829 ounces of investment grade silver is held in various vaults around the world.

By now I think you know what I'm getting at so I will make this brief and combine the three remaining categories. Over the past ten years alone, 2,816,200,000 ounces of silver were used to make jewelry, silverware, coins, and medals. Add this to the silver held as implied investment and you will find that there is quite a bit of silver floating around out there... 3.3 billion ounces if you like simple math.

One may argue that this is not a lot of silver, but this is just from the past ten years. If you care to look at the USGS website, and silver mined over the past 110 years, you will find that 1,075,880 metric tons of silver has been refined. How much silver is that in ounces? 34.5 billion. Now you may be thinking there can't be much silver left to mine, so we are still going to have a shortage some day. Again we can look to the USGS website and find that there are 510,000 metric tons of known silver reserves worldwide. This is silver that has been located and is currently being mined, or is slated for future mining. Using demand from the year 2010, of 1 billion ounces, it would take a little over 16 years to deplete these known reserves. Of course one might say, “you see, we will run out of silver”. However as mentioned, we must consider the silver that is already above ground. In the ten year period discussed, an average 29% of yearly supply was used to fabricate jewelry, coins, medals, and silverware. We can assume that over the past 110 years, no less than this average amount was used for these purposes. This leaves us with a very conservative estimate of 10 billion ounces of above ground supply. From this very simple example, we know there is at least a 26 year supply of known reserves above and below ground.

It has been suggested by many, that most of the silver ever mined has been lost to landfills or used in such a manner that it is not recoverable. First, I find the notion of having thrown (over the past 110 years) 10 billion ounces of silverware, coins, medals, and jewelry into a trash heap, preposterous. As for that which may have ended up in the dump or is not recoverable, we need to look at one more category. This is industrial applications, and during the past ten years, a little over 3.4 billion ounces of silver was used in industry. In the year 2000, the USGS estimated that 30% of this silver was being recovered through recycling in the US. This is when silver was selling at an average price of $5.00 an ounce. With the ever-rising price of silver, copper, zinc, and other metals, it is hard to imagine that the recycling industry will do anything but grow. Needless to say, the idea that industrial silver is permanently consumed and not recoverable, is equally absurd as having thrown any real amount of silver into the trash. Perhaps the most profitable mining in the future may occur just down the street, at your local dump.

The purpose of this discussion has been to inform the reader as to how much silver is really out there. Perhaps one may experience a delay in acquiring specific forms of silver such as minted coins and the like, but this is a production issue, not an overall supply issue. It is important to recognize that all 2010 demand exceeding the average 866 million ounces per year (for the prior 9 years) was from investment silver and coins. In fact, if it were not for the “investment” component of the silver market, demand for the metal would have decreased significantly over the past seven years.

So if there is no shortage of silver, what is causing the price to rise? Certainly an increase in production costs would cause prices to rise, but by more than 900 percent in seven years? I don't think so. Further studies of the market do point to another area. You may wish to read all about it in my next feature, Speculation Incorporated. In the meantime, I think it wise that an investor in silver be quite wary of current pricing. Remember the “great silver melt” of the 1970s and know now, as it was experienced then, there is a lot of silver out there.

###

Mark Taylor

mick silver
25th April 2011, 06:16 PM
there two charts if anyone could post for me thanks

osoab
25th April 2011, 06:20 PM
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/taylor_m/taylor_m_042511/1.gif

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/taylor_m/taylor_m_042511/2.gif

Right click on the chart and copy the link location. You may have to click properties and highlight the web address and then paste the link into your post and use that image surround that is next to the url surround.

skid
25th April 2011, 06:23 PM
That's a disinformation article. He quotes recycling of 30% of industrial applications in the year 2000. I'll be that was mostly photography, which today is much less...

skid
25th April 2011, 06:25 PM
Plus if there is so much silver, why is Sprott having such a hard time getting it for his physical silver fund? He has gone directly to the miners as there is none to be found in volume elsewhere.

solid
25th April 2011, 06:26 PM
This raises in interesting question, he says there's 10 billion ounces of silver above ground. I've read there's 3.8 billion ounces of gold above ground. This does not support the 1/16 traditional ratio. Using what he says, silver priced in relation to gold...on the pure supply side, silver should be around $550 an ounce.

Plus, on the demand side, silver is used with all the tech crap we consume..so demand should be higher.

Serpo
25th April 2011, 06:27 PM
Apmex Starts Reverse Inquiry: Seeks To Buy "Any Quantity" Of Silver From Clients At $3 Over Spot
Tyler Durden's picture
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/25/2011 19:22 -0400



Over the past hour Zero Hedge has been inundated with reader comments notifying us that Ampex has, validating the earlier post speculating about a possible silver shortage at the metals distributor, launched a "reverse ïnquiry" in which it will pay "you $3.00 over the current spot price of Silver for your Silver American Eagles. ANY year, ANY quantity!" and "We will pay you $38.00 over the current spot price of Gold for your Gold American Eagles. ANY year, ANY quantity!" So aside from this first public confirmation that one of the biggest wholesale retailers of precious metals is now inventoryless [sic], we can certainly see why Asia has decided to take silver down in the afterhours electronic session.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/apmex-starts-reverse-inquiry-seeks-buy-any-quantity-silver-clients-3-over-spot

ximmy
25th April 2011, 06:28 PM
BTW... to Mark Taylor... Apmex did NOT solicit me to buy my silver... ::)

"We will pay you $3.00 over the current spot price of Silver for your Silver American Eagles. ANY year, ANY quantity!"

"We will pay you $1,250.00 for your 2010 America The Beautiful 5 oz. Silver coin sets"

zap
25th April 2011, 06:29 PM
BTW... to Mark Taylor... Apmex did NOT solicit me to buy my silver... ::)

"We will pay you $3.00 over the current spot price of Silver for your Silver American Eagles. ANY year, ANY quantity!"

"We will pay you $1,250.00 for your 2010 America The Beautiful 5 oz. Silver coin sets"


They did me Ximy just got an email

Due to the recent incredible demand for Gold and Silver bullion products, APMEX would like to offer you an exclusive opportunity to LOCK IN YOUR PRICES and sell us some of your U.S. Mint collection. This is a limited time offer and it is first come, first served until we have secured enough U.S. Mint bullion products to meet our current demand!

We Want These Products:
We will pay you $38.00 over the current spot price of Gold for your Gold American Eagles. ANY year, ANY quantity!

We will pay you $3.00 over the current spot price of Silver for your Silver American Eagles. ANY year, ANY quantity!

We will pay you $1,250.00 for your 2010 America The Beautiful 5 oz. Silver coin sets.

Once we have purchased enough of these products to meet our current demand, this offer will end! YOU MUST ACT NOW!
Simply call our Purchasing Department toll free at 800.375.9006 between 7:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. CDT to lock in your prices right now. At APMEX, we make it easy and hassle free to buy and sell U.S. Mint bullion coins.

Respectfully,
Clint Hughes
Senior Vice President of Marketing
The American Precious Metals Exchange

P.S. Tell your friends they only have 5 days left to get FREE shipping on their first order when they purchase through the ALL-NEW mobile.APMEX.com on their smartphone! U.S. Shipments Only.

To bad I don't have any to sell them !

mamboni
25th April 2011, 06:34 PM
It would be great if someone of the stature of Ted Butler could respond to this. If one made a similar argument for gold, wherein over 5 billion ounces exist extant, notwithstanding that annual mine production is 1/12 of that of silver, the author would suggest that $1500 is an absurd price for an ounce of gold. I think he is greatly underestimating the monetary and wealth-preserving role of silver in the face of the terminal state of the fiat money system. Sure, in the absolute, silver's price is dependent on all of us "speculators;" the same is true, even more so, for gold, platinum and palladium. But the bottom line is, which would you rather hold here and now, physical silver, an essential metal whose supply is in longterm decline and demand is in the uptrend; or fiat money which can be printed ad infinitum and has no intrinsic value whatsoever?

osoab
25th April 2011, 06:35 PM
BTW... to Mark Taylor... Apmex did NOT solicit me to buy my silver... ::)

"We will pay you $3.00 over the current spot price of Silver for your Silver American Eagles. ANY year, ANY quantity!"

"We will pay you $1,250.00 for your 2010 America The Beautiful 5 oz. Silver coin sets"


Couldn't we just buy those ATB sets last week from them for $980 from APMEX?

ximmy
25th April 2011, 06:38 PM
BTW... to Mark Taylor... Apmex did NOT solicit me to buy my silver... ::)

"We will pay you $3.00 over the current spot price of Silver for your Silver American Eagles. ANY year, ANY quantity!"

"We will pay you $1,250.00 for your 2010 America The Beautiful 5 oz. Silver coin sets"


Couldn't we just buy those ATB sets last week from them for $980 from APMEX?


yeah, those ones were price controlled, if they can buy them back at a small premium, they will sell used sets for over $1500.00 ...and so on...

osoab
25th April 2011, 06:39 PM
BTW... to Mark Taylor... Apmex did NOT solicit me to buy my silver... ::)

"We will pay you $3.00 over the current spot price of Silver for your Silver American Eagles. ANY year, ANY quantity!"

"We will pay you $1,250.00 for your 2010 America The Beautiful 5 oz. Silver coin sets"


Couldn't we just buy those ATB sets last week from them for $980 from APMEX?


yeah, those ones were price controlled, if they can buy them back at a small premium, they will sell used sets for over $1500.00 ...and so on...


Crap, I should have bought one. >:(

Ponce
25th April 2011, 06:54 PM
Only a non believer would sell either their gold or silver.....and if they do I then would called them investors and not survivalist......."what you sell now, you won't recover later for later there will be none"

Glass
25th April 2011, 06:58 PM
It's weird but I have never bought silver because of the apparent supply shortage. The you won't make money of that investment dog is not relevant to me. if I bought any it would be to protect myself from thievery.

SilverMagnet
25th April 2011, 07:01 PM
There might be 10 billion ounces of paper Silver but the physical isn't anywhere near that.

Spectrism
25th April 2011, 07:05 PM
I also find that article misleading.

He fails to take into account the millions of Chinese who left farm subsistence to work factory jobs and now have expendible income. He fails to account for the millions of Americans & Europeans waking up to this fiat scheme and who are now beginning to buy metals.

There are losses of silver. It is used in plating, alloys, reflectors/mirrors, electronics, etc.

Now throw in some governments. China has an excess of cash. Why wouldn't they buy as much in metals as the silly US paper they buy? Miners are also a good bet- and still cheap for some reason.

Is there a risk of it being a bubble? Sure. But with a debt that cannot be paid back and a national financial disaster unfolding, I would bet that the dollar pops before any metals.

mamboni
25th April 2011, 07:09 PM
Apparently no one told these bidders that there is a huge silver surplus: they bid to a cool $55. And the seller's reserve wasn't met! ;D ;D ;D

kiffertom
25th April 2011, 08:14 PM
Only a non believer would sell either their gold or silver.....and if they do I then would called them investors and not survivalist......."what you sell now, you won't recover later for later there will be none"
what about trading your silver for gold or vica versa? i read an article that said if the silver to gold ratio drops below 40 trade silver for gold. if it went about 40 trade gold for silver. im asking this question. does anyone have any ideas ?

Uncle Salty
25th April 2011, 09:48 PM
Only a non believer would sell either their gold or silver.....and if they do I then would called them investors and not survivalist......."what you sell now, you won't recover later for later there will be none"
what about trading your silver for gold or vica versa? i read an article that said if the silver to gold ratio drops below 40 trade silver for gold. if it went about 40 trade gold for silver. im asking this question. does anyone have any ideas ?


I am waiting for 20:1 and then I'll get some gold with my silver. Then a bit at 10:1 and then the rest at 1:1.

keehah
26th April 2011, 01:41 AM
It's weird but I have never bought silver because of the apparent supply shortage. The you won't make money of that investment dog is not relevant to me. if I bought any it would be to protect myself from thievery.


You will have to sell at least some of it, some time.

Its nice to know that when you do, you will get more value since retail value started breaking from the CRIMEX in 2011!