My experience with the war against the man

[dys]

I've held off on posting this, mainly because I'm not crazy about posting my personal problems on a message forum, but I've now decided that this topic is too important for me not to discuss.

First, a very quick summary. I'm having some marriage problems. The problems summarized: domineering mother in law that hates me because I don't bow down to her feet, trying to destroy my marriage. Wife being controlled by mother in law.

This has been an eye opening experience for me, and not in a good way. After having gone through this for a few months, I can say unequivocally that there is a war going on out there, a war against men. We all know about the courts and the system bias against men. That is not only as advertised, but far worse than advertised. But it is more than that. There is an individual bias against men, a bias of family and friends and casual observers, and it's almost universal. It goes something like this:

1. Reactions of the man are used as justifications for actions. Baiting behaviour, or 'buying in' to baiting behaviour. Cause and effect turned on its head.
2. Mistakes/blemishes/weaknesses of the man exploited, magnified, distorted, trumped up, and otherwise inordinately examined. Hyper accountability demanded.
3. Assumption of evil intent for right actions. "You only did it because..."
4. Man blamed for woman's wrong actions. "What did you do to make her think or act that way?
5. Excuses, rationalizations, or ignoring woman's mistakes.
6. Sickening and blatant double standard. A good example is something I caught on another board. A (different families) husband and wife were both accused of feeding their kid a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch too often, this happened in the same court. The mother was praised, it was 'cute' that she did this. The father was blasted for ignoring proper nutrition.
7. Father hammered to give up rights. By judges, families, clerks, mediators, friends. Father 'being difficult' when he defends himself, and punished accordingly.

In general, every quarter is granted the woman. The man is discriminated against every step of the way, by EVERYONE. Personally, if I didn't have my faith right now, I would not be speaking to my parents at all. But it's not just my family, they don't have the market cornered on this war. I see this behaviour everywhere I look, whether it's in the media, the courts, message forums, advertising, etc.

dys

[Book]

Wife being controlled by mother in law.



Wait until she turns INTO her mother.

:D

[midnight rambler]

It's part and parcel of the death cult's plan to destroy families in order to give rise to their creation of the perfect worker class - reduced to animal behavior so that their servants can be more easily managed like livestock on a commercial farm.

Sorry to hear you're going through that Dys. Some assholes find the misfortunes of others to be *sardonic*.

[dys]

It's part and parcel of the death cult's plan to destroy families in order to give rise to their creation of the perfect worker class - reduced to animal behavior so that their servants can be more easily managed like livestock on a commercial farm.

Sorry to hear you're going through that Dys. Some assholes find the misfortunes of others to be *sardonic*.


I appreciate the concern. I don't believe that most of the people realize that their thought processes and reasoning abilities have been compromised. They are akin to the soldiers on the battlefield in conventional war, they fight because they have been programmed that fighting is the right thing to do. It's very sad, actually. And frustrating.

dys

[ShortJohnSilver]

Sorry to hear this.

I have dealt with some of it, I assume all married men have.

First, you need to up your skills at dealing with it including the ability to counteract the passive-aggressive female BS. Not knowing your exact situation, I don't have specific advice, but in small ways you can show her that the crap she pulls will not work with you. You need to punish bad behavior and reward good behavior - the behavior you reward is the behavior you get more of.

Second, you need to start figuring out how to help your wife achieve independence from her mother's control ; so in the short term you need to carefully and without malice that will linger, pit the wife against the mother-in-law. There is always a weak spot, like maybe the mother criticizes clothes or shoes, or a meal that was prepared, whatever. When you are alone with your wife, point out the mother's behavior and tell her YOU felt that her shoes/meal/blouse etc. was perfect and why did her mom think it wasn't right? This changes your wife into thinking you have her back while mom is always running her down.

[dys]

One thing I'd like to point out is that many of the people that discriminate against men ARE men. You'd be surprised the way some people think.

dys

[SWRichmond]

Father hammered to give up rights. By judges, families, clerks, mediators, friends. Father 'being difficult' when he defends himself, and punished accordingly.

Everyone (but you and of course your children) benefits financially if you back out. You get to send your wife checks forever, and her attorney gets to be important to her forever, and you become a slave to the family court forever.

The combined womenfolk get to alienate your children against you, and blame everything that has happened on you, and also blame everything that will happen on you. It is a total release from responsibility. Not enough money? Your fault. Not a nice enough place to live? Your fault. Shitty schools? Your fault. See?

[7th trump]

I've held off on posting this, mainly because I'm not crazy about posting my personal problems on a message forum, but I've now decided that this topic is too important for me not to discuss.

First, a very quick summary. I'm having some marriage problems. The problems summarized: domineering mother in law that hates me because I don't bow down to her feet, trying to destroy my marriage. Wife being controlled by mother in law.

This has been an eye opening experience for me, and not in a good way. After having gone through this for a few months, I can say unequivocally that there is a war going on out there, a war against men. We all know about the courts and the system bias against men. That is not only as advertised, but far worse than advertised. But it is more than that. There is an individual bias against men, a bias of family and friends and casual observers, and it's almost universal. It goes something like this:

1. Reactions of the man are used as justifications for actions. Baiting behaviour, or 'buying in' to baiting behaviour. Cause and effect turned on its head.
2. Mistakes/blemishes/weaknesses of the man exploited, magnified, distorted, trumped up, and otherwise inordinately examined. Hyper accountability demanded.
3. Assumption of evil intent for right actions. "You only did it because..."
4. Man blamed for woman's wrong actions. "What did you do to make her think or act that way?
5. Excuses, rationalizations, or ignoring woman's mistakes.
6. Sickening and blatant double standard. A good example is something I caught on another board. A (different families) husband and wife were both accused of feeding their kid a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch too often, this happened in the same court. The mother was praised, it was 'cute' that she did this. The father was blasted for ignoring proper nutrition.
7. Father hammered to give up rights. By judges, families, clerks, mediators, friends. Father 'being difficult' when he defends himself, and punished accordingly.

In general, every quarter is granted the woman. The man is discriminated against every step of the way, by EVERYONE. Personally, if I didn't have my faith right now, I would not be speaking to my parents at all. But it's not just my family, they don't have the market cornered on this war. I see this behaviour everywhere I look, whether it's in the media, the courts, message forums, advertising, etc.

dys


Sorry to hear this Dys. I am having problems with my marriage also. My wife filed after everyone got to hear her side of her arguement. Nothing like getting to pick your solutions to your arguements before hand and you get to defend yourself afterwards. The double standards and tricks they play!
Anyway heres a good site http://iowafathers.com you may want to ask some questions there. They are good at answering what you need to do. They get an awefull lot of out of state fathers asking what they should do.
Anyway this site is about fathers rights and how to protect them.
The owner of this site has actually lobbyied the Iowa house and has passed some laws here in Iowa that is changing the landscape for divorced fathers getting the shaft.
Iowa now is increasingly give custody to the father over the mother. Also, theres more and more cases where the courts are allowing 50/50 joint physical custody. This drastically reduces the child support for the father when he now has 50% custody.
Anyway the site is good and there always seems to be someone on the board who can answer any questions you have to help with dealing with these women who think its greener on the other side.

[madfranks]

The problems summarized: domineering mother in law that hates me because I don't bow down to her feet, trying to destroy my marriage. Wife being controlled by mother in law.


I can totally relate with how your mother in law treats you. Thank God the difference is my wife sees through all of it and so it's my mom in law who hates both of us. You wouldn't believe the stuff she blames on us, ridiculous things like how her dogs who live at her house pee on the floor and it's our fault. And you can't, simply can not, win an argument with her. I've had to drop arguments after telling her that her "1GB" flash drive was a gigabyte and not a terabyte, how if we visit family in Utah we will not automatically become mormons, how just because a murder-mystery novel takes place in Los Angeles does not make it non-fiction, etc, etc, etc. Yes, I'm serious, we've argued over these things and I always lose.

Sorry for the rant, but dude, if anyone here can relate to your intolerable mother in law, it's probably me.

[dys]

The problems summarized: domineering mother in law that hates me because I don't bow down to her feet, trying to destroy my marriage. Wife being controlled by mother in law.


I can totally relate with how your mother in law treats you. Thank God the difference is my wife sees through all of it and so it's my mom in law who hates both of us. You wouldn't believe the stuff she blames on us, ridiculous things like how her dogs who live at her house pee on the floor and it's our fault. And you can't, simply can not, win an argument with her. I've had to drop arguments after telling her that her "1GB" flash drive was a gigabyte and not a terabyte, how if we visit family in Utah we will not automatically become mormons, how just because a murder-mystery novel takes place in Los Angeles does not make it non-fiction, etc, etc, etc. Yes, I'm serious, we've argued over these things and I always lose.

Sorry for the rant, but dude, if anyone here can relate to your intolerable mother in law, it's probably me.


Buddy, I hear you loud and clear, especially about the argument thing. I'll add that my mother in law is absolutely impossible to ignore. I finally got tired of avoiding her; besides, nothing short of 1000% acquiencence satisfies her thirst for domination. I eventually told her "your delusions are not my problem." After that, it was on like donkey cong, as they say.

dys

[MAGNES]

The war is against the Patriarchs.

What does that mean ?

Our society, Western is rooted in this, Patriarchy.

In order to fully understand this a good understanding of history is necessary.

I don't fully understand this but I understand enough.

Most people here understand this enough as well, just by looking at the fruits as well.

The war on history is a big part of this, the war on Patriots, Freedom, Western Leaders.

It is all one sided attacks and you can see who the " players " are, lined up and allied,
many of which do not understand what they are a part of, they may stray on some issues.

Justice issues, the Courts, are corrupted, on many issues, family issues is just one of those.

Make sure you see Rockefeller Aaron Russo revelations, same players involved at top.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/google-videos-uploaded-video-content-no-longer-available-soon-429/msg214066/#msg214066

Again as like other big issues, the same monkeys and hypocrites are involved.

Masonry as well has this hidden, the rest of my post on this I deleted.

[madfranks]

nothing short of 1000% acquiencence satisfies her thirst for domination


Oh man, it's the same with mine. Sorry to sort of derail the thread with my above post, because I really am sorry for the trouble you're going through. If my wife sided with the creature (that's what me and my buddies call her), I don't know if our marriage would have lasted a year.

Have you had a serious, heart to heart conversation with your wife about this? Does she not see how this is troubling you or does she simply ignore it or rationalize it away? Because I will say this, when my marriage was young, my wife did side with the creature a lot, either out of habit or loyalty, but thank the Lord she recognized what it was doing to our marriage and matured beyond it. When the topic comes up now she's grateful that she's not beholden to her anymore and regretful that she ever was.

[ximmy]

Wife being controlled by mother in law.



Wait until she turns INTO her mother.

:D


Exactly guys... it's not the "monster in law" ... it's the wife... Or wives, it's the husband... Not his mom... sorry

[dys]

Oh man, it's the same with mine. Sorry to sort of derail the thread with my above post, because I really am sorry for the trouble you're going through. If my wife sided with the creature (that's what me and my buddies call her), I don't know if our marriage would have lasted a year.

Have you had a serious, heart to heart conversation with your wife about this? Does she not see how this is troubling you or does she simply ignore it or rationalize it away? Because I will say this, when my marriage was young, my wife did side with the creature a lot, either out of habit or loyalty, but thank the Lord she recognized what it was doing to our marriage and matured beyond it. When the topic comes up now she's grateful that she's not beholden to her anymore and regretful that she ever was.


My wife is absolutely terrified of her mother. I went into this marriage extremely naaive. I thought I had a good handle on how to handle my mother in law. I would avoid her at almost any cost, and when that was impossible I would simply agree with her and then do or think whatever I wanted to do if contrary to my mother in law's wishes. This worked fantastic at first, but eventually my mother in law started to figure out that I was only agreeing with her to placate her and not because I actually respect her. When my daughter was born, my mother in law became even more overbearing, and that was the beginning of the end, because I started to overrule her in matters concerning my daughter.
Unfortunately for me, my mother in law is a master manipulater and game player. The problem is twofold: one, at this time my wife doesn't seem to have the capacity to say no to her mother. Two, my mother in law has been trying to sabotage me by continually bombarding my wife, family, friends, and anyone else that will listen with accusations (mostly untrue and distorted) about me.

It's a very bad situation, but not a hopeless one as I believe in the power of my faith in Jesus Christ. Things that are impossible with men are possible with God. Thank you for your thoughts.

dys

[FunnyMoney]

You married the wife, not her mother. I would make that clear and change all phone numbers and all locks. If that doesn't work, you might consider moving to another state. If your wife gets lonely and wants to "chat" with mom, then there's the 1-800 telphone calling cards. A man holds a lot of "battle strategies," you might be forced to employ some of them.

Sometimes once the other side is defeated they actually realilze they were in the wrong all along and change their ways, although with some people that can take months, even years. Good luck.

[k-os]

This is a really scary thread. I don't believe it is possible to have a healthy marriage unless she puts you before her mother.

Good luck to you, dys.

[dys]

I appreciate all of the concern, but really, the reason I started this thread is not because of the mother in law thing.
I started it because of my experience of being discriminated against based on my sex. In a general sense, the man is assumed to be an abuser, threatening, crazy, and unstable. These assumptions are made despite the fact that all of the evidence may suggest exactly the opposite. The woman, on the other hand, is the victim. No matter what she says or does, this remains the truth in most people's eyes because even when presented with evidence of deplorable actions on the woman's part, the thought process is that the man must have done something to justify the woman's actions.
Again, this bias is often exhibited by men.

dys

[Horn]

You can either ignored & feed fear, or noticed & starve it.

Neither of which works until it is overcome, or dealt with directly.

Most of the time it gets projected back and forth, or painted on the partner.

[mick silver]

my wife my parter in life . going on 28 years . but your mother in law needed to live her life an lets you guys live your right or wrong

[madfranks]

I appreciate all of the concern, but really, the reason I started this thread is not because of the mother in law thing.
I started it because of my experience of being discriminated against based on my sex. In a general sense, the man is assumed to be an abuser, threatening, crazy, and unstable. These assumptions are made despite the fact that all of the evidence may suggest exactly the opposite. The woman, on the other hand, is the victim. No matter what she says or does, this remains the truth in most people's eyes because even when presented with evidence of deplorable actions on the woman's part, the thought process is that the man must have done something to justify the woman's actions.
Again, this bias is often exhibited by men.

dys


You're right about this too. I have a friend, I've known him for 10+ years, upstanding and kind, and his wife divorced him and to get back at him accused him of beating her or domestic violence or some shit like that. I know this man, and I know when he told me he never laid a hand on her, I believe him. He admits he made a mistake when he married this woman, but she called the cops and even though there was no evidence of bruising or beating at all, he was still arrested solely on her testimony. He was told by his lawyer not to fight it, that men can not win these types of charges, so he plea bargained it down but had to sell his guns, because the court ordered him to. Anyway, yeah, men definitely get the short end of the stick when it comes to marriage or relationships in general.

[Cicero]

I appreciate all of the concern, but really, the reason I started this thread is not because of the mother in law thing.
I started it because of my experience of being discriminated against based on my sex. In a general sense, the man is assumed to be an abuser, threatening, crazy, and unstable. These assumptions are made despite the fact that all of the evidence may suggest exactly the opposite. The woman, on the other hand, is the victim. No matter what she says or does, this remains the truth in most people's eyes because even when presented with evidence of deplorable actions on the woman's part, the thought process is that the man must have done something to justify the woman's actions.
Again, this bias is often exhibited by men.

dys


so he plea bargained it down but had to sell his guns, because the court ordered him to.
There is the complete answer right there. The guvmint using family court to disarm America.

[solid]

I can relate to this thread too. When I was young, early 20's I was very close to proposing to a gal and getting married. Over the course of 3 years, her manipulation tactics whittled me down to where I felt, as a man, that men are the root of all evil and women should be worshiped.

Her mom, hated men, she hated men, even the two dogs they had loved women...but, yup hated men. The mom's husband, cowered in the back room hiding the whole time. I said maybe 2 words to the guy the whole 3 years I was with this gal.

I eventually sort of snapped...I broke up with her, then went to Europe to travel and had a fling with a beautiful French gal. That broke me free from all that. Since then, I guess you could say I have commitment issues...but at least I'm happy.

I don't ever want to go through that again.

I'm of the old beliefs of marriage, which has been destroyed when all the blame fell on men. Both men and women need to work together, and sacrifice, and cherish that bond to make a marriage work. It's about giving, not taking.

Our society has created marriage into men giving everything, and on a whim, women taking everything. When you have an imbalance like that...that's when greed and selfishness take over and people think not about what's right, but about what they can "get". It's human nature.

Be strong Dys. Yes, your faith is your rock. I know you will be fine because you have God with you, and always will.

[Libertytree]

I've been through it and I've watched it, it's just plain wrong on many levels. It's times like these that I'm glad that I've seen the signs on the wall and got away from it and that I'm not hindered by any such crazy BS now. Being single has its disadvantages for sure but not the kind of misery associated with marriage etc...at least to the "wrong" woman.

[Silver Shield]

John Lynch the famous slave owner whom Lynching is named after said that to thoroughly enslave a race you must emasculate the men infront of the women. The women will out of natural reaction emasculate their sons so that they are not threatened and have their girl kiss ass to their master.

The system destroys the man in the courts and gives comfort to the woman. My poor brother in law has been fighting my scumbag sister for 3 years now in the courts over bullshit and there is no end insight until his son is 18.

This then make men think twice about getting married or having plenty of children which of course plays into the hands of the eugenicists

[1970 silver art]

Dys,

I am sorry that you are going through the crap that you are going through. However, I want to thank you for posting this because it is a reminder to me to NOT get married. This has been mentioned before but it is worth repeating IMO. The divorce courts favor the woman and punishes the man. The "child support system" (i.e. family court) favors the woman and punishes the man. 99.9% of the time, the man pays by force of the "gov't system" gun.

In my mind, I already know this but your OP reinforced the following very critical points that I want to remind every single and childless man out there.

Rule # 1: DO NOT get married. The disadvantages of marriage easily outweigh the advantages.

Rule # 2: DO NOT get a woman pregnant. The disadvantages of fathering children easily outweigh the advantages.

I will NEVER get married and I will NEVER father any kids. I will stay single for the rest of my life. Like I said, this thread is a reminder of what can happen when someone gets married.

Dys, I also want to clearly point out that I was not picking on you and I was not offending any married couples or parents that are members of GSUS. This is something that I feel strong about and my cynicism keeps me from making the mistakes of getting married and fathering children. I just felt that this had to be said and your thread presented the opportunity to do that.

[Neuro]

Rule # 2: DO NOT get a woman pregnant. The disadvantages of fathering children easily outweigh the advantages.
How do you know that Silver Art? I am a father of 2 children, 7 and 11 yoa. I would say for me the advantages easily outweighs the disadvantages...

[1970 silver art]

Rule # 2: DO NOT get a woman pregnant. The disadvantages of fathering children easily outweigh the advantages.
How do you know that Silver Art? I am a father of 2 children, 7 and 11 yoa. I would say for me the advantages easily outweighs the disadvantages...


Since I do not have any children of my own, I do not know and I do not have any personal experience on this. Fair enough. When I said that, in my post, that was just my opinion and I should have been clear on that. However, the reason that I said that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages IMO because I hear too many stories of men having to fight the woman for custody of his child and visitation rights to see his child. The gov't child support system also punishes that man financially even though that man is doing the right thing of raising and caring for the child. Those are the two things that made me form an opinion that the disadvantages of fathering children outweigh the advantages. The gov't child support system unfairly punishes the man and therefore, getting a woman pregnant is IMO too risky for me because I do not want to get destroyed financially and emotionally by the gov't court system. I heard it happen to too many other men and the best way for me to protect myself is to stay away from women (no offense was intended to the female GSUS posters).

Being single and childless is the best way to live IMO. I will stay single and I will NOT father any children.

[Horn]

Being single and childless is the best way to live IMO. I will stay single and I will NOT father any children.



Who's going to inherit all the art bars?

[solid]

Who's going to inherit all the art bars?


I think there will be an art bar museum, in Artie's honor. Folks from all around can come and see them. You get orange juice and pizza with your ticket too. The proceeds should go to the "save the art bar" foundation. ;D

[1970 silver art]

Being single and childless is the best way to live IMO. I will stay single and I will NOT father any children.



Who's going to inherit all the art bars?


Hmmmmm................That's a good question Horn. I am guessing probably to a non-profit club called International Association of Silver Art Collectors (IASAC). I have not figured out the details on that yet and that could change.

[1970 silver art]

Who's going to inherit all the art bars?


I think there will be an art bar museum, in Artie's honor. Folks from all around can come and see them. You get orange juice and pizza with your ticket too. The proceeds should go to the "save the art bar" foundation. ;D


:ROFL:

That's funny Solid. However, I am just a student of the silver art bar collecting hobby. I am just a "no-name" silver art bar collector and I do not deserve a silver art bar museum in my honor. :)

[ShortJohnSilver]

With the silver art bar collection , you can set up an employee-owned cooperative to run a pizza parlor and pub, called "The Silver Dog" .

[1970 silver art]

With the silver art bar collection , you can set up an employee-owned cooperative to run a pizza parlor and pub, called "The Silver Dog" .


:ROFL:

That's funny. Thanks for the laugh. ;D There is no doubt that it would have my "influence" all over it if it existed. :D Maybe the pizza parlor and pub could also hang up a list of my "gut feeling" silver predictions that I made for all to see when they enter the pub. ;D

[lapis]

I'm sorry to hear about your problems, dys! I wonder if your wife would be open to reading some of Dr. Laura's books? I think The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands is one of her best, but you might need to start with one of the less-provoking titles first.

Here's a blurb for the book:

"In her most provocative book yet, Dr. Laura urgently reminds women that to take proper care of their husbands is to ensure themselves the happiness and satisfaction they yearn for in marriage.

Women want to be in love, get married, and live happily ever after. Yet disrespect for men and disregard for the value, feelings, and needs of husbands has fast become the standard for male-female relations in America. Those two attitudes clash in unfortunate ways to create struggle and strife in what could be a beautiful relationship."

Maybe you guys could both start reading Ten Stupid Things Couples Do to Mess Up Their Relationships together.

[dys]

Let me try and explain myself in another way. MIL calls my parents and my brother and says, "dys did this and that and needs to work on this and that." Wife talks to mutual friends and says "dys did this and that and needs to work on this and that." Now, most of these accusations are about very insignificant things/mistakes I've made, and even then they are trumped up in such a way to make them look much more severe than they really are.
So now my parents and my friends all call me, and say "You have to get your act together. You have a family to care for, you need to better fulfill your responsibility, etc." So now I have 2 choices. I can refuse to defend myself and say this is a private matter. Bad choice, because family and friends will now universally tell my wife what a jerk I am. OR I can defend myself by saying, "wait a second. X isn't true, Y is a distortion, and Z happened 5 years ago, not last week. Besides, if anyone has a complaint, it's me, because of A, B, and C that my wife needs to be accountable for.
How do people respond in this situation? Here are some of the ways:

1. What did you do to make your wife act that way?
2. I don't believe you. (but you believe my crazy MIL?)
3. You shouldn't be trying to deflect blame and throwing your wife under the bus.
4. Your wife's perception is your responsibility, even if it's wrong.
5. You need to cherish and love your wife...blah blah blah

Meanwhile, these same people have already told my wife that I need to take full responsibility for 'my issues' which for the most part are fabricated. Now things have changed, what used to be a small problem has exploded into a huge problem. The reason for this is that her delusions (for lack of a better word) have now been validated by people she cares about. Also, none of the people she cares about have made the slightest suggestion that she hold herself accountable, AT ALL, so she doesn't.

Now some of you will say that your family and friends aren't like this, but all I can say is that I never would have guessed in a million years that my family and friends would be like this. And again, it's not just family and friends, it's judges, lawyers, tv talk show hosts, media, advertisers, etc....

dys

[mick silver]

dys you every thought of a pocket recorder . you may need this later on

[dys]

I'd also like to add that any reasonable reaction of indignation or anger is used as fuel to satisfy people's bias. IE- you wouldn't have reacted that way if it wasn't true, or your reaction demonstrates your instability and lack of self control, or your reactions validates your wife's delusions.


dys

[dys]

dys you every thought of a pocket recorder . you may need this later on


Illegal in my state, otherwise I'd already have one.

dys

[mick silver]

i didnt say it was right . but you may need that

[k-os]

OK, so the in-laws, friends, media, etc. are biased against men. That's not the problem here. The problem is that your wife is involving other people in your private marital matters. It's immature and irresponsible of her to complain about you to her friends and family. She will someday forget about whatever it is that's got her wound up, but they will not.

If she has issues with you that go unresolved by speaking with you about them, then it might be time for you to get a professional in on the conversation. Yes, therapists can be biased too, but there are good ones out there. Also, I am sure that your church offers marriage counseling.

If she has issues with you and she doesn't even try to discuss them with you but tells family and friends, then that is huge. It could be you, it could be her, it could be a combination, but either way, it's a big problem, and I wouldn't know where to begin.

I hear about trouble in my friends' marriages all of the time, and the question I always ask them is: Do you want to have peace and a healthy marriage, or do you want to win? If either one of you just wants to win, no amount of discussion or counseling will help. In that case, the one who just wants to win is simply collecting ammunition for D day. But if the two of you want peace and love, then you can get it, if you try.

Best of luck to you, dys.

[Neuro]

Yes, I agree with K-os, if she is bringing the friends and family into the discussion on her part without even discussing it with you first, and a distorted even untrue version of what have happened, you have then nothing to lose in bringing an outside marriage counsellor in. REALLY!

[dys]

OK, so the in-laws, friends, media, etc. are biased against men. That's not the problem here. The problem is that your wife is involving other people in your private marital matters. It's immature and irresponsible of her to complain about you to her friends and family. She will someday forget about whatever it is that's got her wound up, but they will not.

If she has issues with you that go unresolved by speaking with you about them, then it might be time for you to get a professional in on the conversation. Yes, therapists can be biased too, but there are good ones out there. Also, I am sure that your church offers marriage counseling.

If she has issues with you and she doesn't even try to discuss them with you but tells family and friends, then that is huge. It could be you, it could be her, it could be a combination, but either way, it's a big problem, and I wouldn't know where to begin.

I hear about trouble in my friends' marriages all of the time, and the question I always ask them is: Do you want to have peace and a healthy marriage, or do you want to win? If either one of you just wants to win, no amount of discussion or counseling will help. In that case, the one who just wants to win is simply collecting ammunition for D day. But if the two of you want peace and love, then you can get it, if you try.

Best of luck to you, dys.


The reason that the bias matters has nothing to do with my marriage. The bias has been socially engineered into people in our society for the purpose of dividing us. By 'us' I mean- men and woman, husbands and wives, families, friends, coworkers, neighbors, communities, etc. Being discriminated against tends to cause very hard feelings. Those hard feelings tend to remain regardless of what happens after the fact. Personally, I can tell you that at this stage of my life I have enough maturity to forgive ignorance, so I will not become a woman hater, or estranged from my family and friends, etc...BUT I assure you that if this happened to me 10 years ago, I probably would never speak to certain people in my life ever again that have demonstrated the highest degree of bias. That would be true regardless of whether my marriage worked or failed.
One thing that does bother me is that most women seem reluctant to acknowledge the social bias that exists against men. It is severe, it is easily demonstrable, and it is pervasive.

dys

[7th trump]

Yes, I agree with K-os, if she is bringing the friends and family into the discussion on her part without even discussing it with you first, and a distorted even untrue version of what have happened, you have then nothing to lose in bringing an outside marriage counsellor in. REALLY!

I concur as well. Call her out on it and do it in front of family and friends.
I did and in my case my wifes family is on my side because they compared notes and found who the lying culprit really was.

[lapis]

I just wrote a long post, not realizing that k-os beat me to the punch (http://


So now my parents and my friends all call me, and say "You have to get your act together. You have a family to care for, you need to better fulfill your responsibility, etc." So now I have 2 choices. I can refuse to defend myself and say this is a private matter. Bad choice, because family and friends will now universally tell my wife what a jerk I am. OR I can defend myself by saying, "wait a second. X isn't true, Y is a distortion, and Z happened 5 years ago, not last week. Besides, if anyone has a complaint, it's me, because of A, B, and C that my wife needs to be accountable for.

How about if you just lie and say something like, "You're right, I'm working on it." Then change the subject? At least until you get a handle on it. I think the less said, the better. The more you say, the more it gets analyzed, spun, and repeated and mixed up. You're just giving them more rope to hang you with. :(



One thing that does bother me is that most women seem reluctant to acknowledge the social bias that exists against men. It is severe, it is easily demonstrable, and it is pervasive.

Even men don't see it, unless you point it out to them. But this (social bias) is just one of the many issues plaguing our society that people are blind to.

Ultimately what this does is to discourage women and men from getting together to create harmonious families with a lot of children, basically what midnight rambler said:



It's part and parcel of the death cult's plan to destroy families in order to give rise to their creation of the perfect worker class - reduced to animal behavior so that their servants can be more easily managed like livestock on a commercial farm.

But we've got to get free of this! I hope you find a good solution, dys!

[Horn]

The reason that the bias matters has nothing to do with my marriage. The bias has been socially engineered into people in our society for the purpose of dividing us. By 'us' I mean- men and woman, husbands and wives, families, friends, coworkers, neighbors, communities, etc.

I'm a little lost here, so all is good there?

I understand about the bias, and as Magnes stated it is/was a patriarchal type which is now (in the West) conceived mostly into some form of matrix, which really isn't a society, as it revolves around a series of robotic switches and or synthetic nerves (not-human).

Nothing may ever help in any of our relationships until that false net society provides currently, is totally removed.

Everything here starts on a personal level, then steam rolls across the boards of "society" in circular fashion. Especially in women's case... ^-^

[Glass]

I'd thought I would just throw this in from an article I came across this morning.


Oversexed teenage boys a 'myth'
Unbelievable as it may sound, not all young men want more sex.

According to a survey of Australian men, 12 per cent between the ages of 16 and 24 said they wanted less sex - the highest proportion of any age group.

"Although it's a minority, it's still interesting that it's more of them (than any other age group), which is not that sort of myth, boys not getting enough sex and dying to get it," Juliet Richters, Associate Professor in Sexual Health, University of New South Wales, told Reuters.

Richters and a team of researchers from around Australia surveyed some 4300 heterosexual men and 4400 women between the ages of 16 and 64.

She said another survey five years ago showed similar results.

Only 31 per cent of men in that age group said they wanted more sex, the lowest of any other age group as well.

"It may well be that they are being overwhelmed by girls of much the same age who are madly in love and very keen," she said.

"It also takes men of that age about a year or longer to commit to a relationship."

More predictably, the survey found that 57 per cent of men between 35 and 44 wanted more sex compared with only 28 per cent of women, while 14 per cent of women said they wanted less.


The Telling bit to me was this final statement

"The evolutionary explanation is women are only keen on sex when they can conceive. A social explanation is a whole lot of stuff, including time, pressure, tiredness," Richter said.

"I mean, sex is a leisure activity after all."


Link..... (http://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/lifematters/oversexed-teenage-boys-a-myth-20110503-1e62w.html#ixzz1LGOPVaUj)

[Spectrism]

dys- I have a fun idea for you... but it will seem painful until you actually do it.

I have had my share of experiences... for sure. There are certain principles you can use that will shield you and make life miserable for those who are not living in their accord. Ready?


1. Love truth. No matter what it says or how it exposes you... love the truth. Embrace it and acknowledge it. If someone points out a fault of yours, thank them for it and seek to change what they pointed out. This is not just a show, but real, heart-felt acceptance of criticism.

2. Understand that most people are violating truth and principles most of the time. Nobody is without fault. Don't think you have to correct them. Just work on yourself. Get yourself to as close to blameless as you can.

3. The laws of God will deal with those who violate His ways. If you know someone is wrong and they are willing to hear it, offer gentle guidance. If they refuse, detach yourself from them- if possible. In a marriage, explain ground rules and how far you are willing to go. Beyond that point, your spouse walks alone and unshielded.

4. Continually surrender to God and His will and you will have peace. Even when your world is crashing around you, you will have a peace that is supernatural. Why? you gave it all to God and now it is His responsibility to fix. Just keep yourself straight and humble and watch the fireworks.


I can attest that this works and the results are beyond your imagination.

[SLV^GLD]

dys, there's a lot of material in this thread I have not taken the time to read. I may go back and peruse it later.

I just wanted to let you know that I can empathize with your situation to some degree. The closest my marriage came to being torn apart was when my MIL had my wife's ear. MIL is a rabid feminist. She has many many good qualities but her views on men are abhorrent. She has some decent excuses based on how men have treated her int he past.

All this is to say that if your wife is taking critical input on your relationship form her mother it will go nowhere but South. MIL needs to butt the fuck out and your wife needs to quit carrying your relationship to her mother. The best thing that ever happened to our marriage was the day my wife told her mother she would no longer bring marital tensions to her and that she no longer wished to hear any advising or criticisms of her marriage. Things went straight up from there and relationships improved across the board.

Problems between you and your wife need to stay between you and your wife unless there is some actual abuse taking place. Involving a third party, especially one with bias is a disaster. We tried a marriage counselor during the period my wife was still carrying to her mother and that bitch was out to ruin our marriage too. Fortunately she was so obvious even my wife admitted it and we stopped seeing her. Who would have guessed the MIL suggested that particular counselor?!

Anyway, I don't know if your marriage is beyond a point of no return. It's never really too late for the two of you to open up communication and close down outside interference. But both of you have to make that decision together and if one refuses it is doomed.

My condolences and my prayers for you and yours.


PS - Our own little SHTF happened right at the 7 year mark so there is some truth to the itch.

[SLV^GLD]

One final note, during our crisis my anger was definitely used against me. I enrolled myself in some anger management programs partly to have an external reference to make in my defense and primarily to equip myself to deal with situations such as this with a greater degree of control over myself. It helped immensely and actually helped me to put the whole problem into a more true perspective. Once I was able to put aside my anger and look at the issue more rationally I was able to form a better case to my wife that it was effectively betrayal and treason to include her mother in our marriage. Once I was able to make these assertions calmly and rationally and to detach my own participation until she reconciled the disparity it made the situation infinitely more lopsided where it became obvious she was willfully destructive to a relationship I was calmly preserving.

[7th trump]

dys- I have a fun idea for you... but it will seem painful until you actually do it.

I have had my share of experiences... for sure. There are certain principles you can use that will shield you and make life miserable for those who are not living in their accord. Ready?


1. Love truth. No matter what it says or how it exposes you... love the truth. Embrace it and acknowledge it. If someone points out a fault of yours, thank them for it and seek to change what they pointed out. This is not just a show, but real, heart-felt acceptance of criticism.

2. Understand that most people are violating truth and principles most of the time. Nobody is without fault. Don't think you have to correct them. Just work on yourself. Get yourself to as close to blameless as you can.

3. The laws of God will deal with those who violate His ways. If you know someone is wrong and they are willing to hear it, offer gentle guidance. If they refuse, detach yourself from them- if possible. In a marriage, explain ground rules and how far you are willing to go. Beyond that point, your spouse walks alone and unshielded.

4. Continually surrender to God and His will and you will have peace. Even when your world is crashing around you, you will have a peace that is supernatural. Why? you gave it all to God and now it is His responsibility to fix. Just keep yourself straight and humble and watch the fireworks.


I can attest that this works and the results are beyond your imagination.

Have to say there is a lot of truth in this post. My wife has filed for divorce and wouldnt ya know her family is on my side from using most of what you have said.
There are fireworks indeed and it is for the most part peaceful and comforting knowing I'm not totally at blame.
My wife is definately walking alone and unshielded. She only has a two friends left and they soon will see her ways arent true also.
All the people in her life that gave her a helping hand as a single mother are now closing the purse strings on her. She will get no help from any of them. As the in-laws have said "she is dead to us".

[horseshoe3]

This is a really scary thread. I don't believe it is possible to have a healthy marriage unless she puts you before her mother.

Good luck to you, dys.


QFT. And I also want to add that you have to put your love of your wife before your hatred of her mother. Don't let her divide and conquer your marriage.

[SLV^GLD]

1. What did you do to make your wife act that way?

I cannot make my wife do or say anything. She is her own person. She is responsible for herself.

2. I don't believe you. (but you believe my crazy MIL?)

You can believe whatever you like. You aren't here living my life so you don't know anything your not told. My life is really non of your fucking business so I'd appreciate it if you quit calling me to tell me how to live it.

3. You shouldn't be trying to deflect blame and throwing your wife under the bus.

I will take responsibility for my actions only. I'm not perfect and I don't really care to be. I have priorities in my life. One of those priorities is to be the best father and husband I can be. I'm doing the best with what I have.

4. Your wife's perception is your responsibility, even if it's wrong.

My wife is not my responsibility. She is responsible for her actions and her feelings. If you have a problem with my wife's perceptions you should take that up with her, not me (see response #1).

5. You need to cherish and love your wife...blah blah blah

You're right. Love doesn't mean always acquiescing and demeaning myself. Love is a two way street. Love provides room for forgiveness and personal growth. Love is mutual and is really only the business of the partnership of which YOU are not party to so how about butting the fuck out and minding your own damned business (see response #2).

[Awoke]

Tough situation. I had a an in-law "situation" for over a decade. I kept my mouth shut.
The behavior continued. My marriage started to pay for it. I was gettin' cranky. Watchout.
Their behavior continued. I still held it in.

One day I got a phone call with the "problem" on the other end of the phone.

He knew me as a sweet caring person before that phone call . Not anymore.

I ripped his head off through the fone and told him how selfish he is and how his behavior is ruining my life. I let it ALL OUT.

I couldn't believe I did it. I finally did it.

You waited too long. You should have never let it escalate to the point where you have a meltdown. That's not the way to manage a marriage.

My wife took issue with me on something that was bugging her. It was bothering her alot. I was spending too much time on a project instead of spending time with the kids and her. I was spending prime family time on the project, instead of with them.
She told me on Thursday, and I never touched the project for 3 days. Still haven't. I made a point of dedicating all my time to my family, the entire weekend. I will continue to do that, because it is important to my wife, and I love her. She still wants me to have time with the project, but just not all the potential family time.

After spending three days with me, doing all sorts of fmaily activities, she told me that she really has appreciated the last few days, and that it means a lot to her. I could tell she was genuinely happy and that is what I want.

No meltdowns required.

[Awoke]

Good job then. Kudos to you. Family is the most important thing we have, and we need to protect it from the plans of the babylonian talmudists.

[lapis]

One final note, during our crisis my anger was definitely used against me.

Beware! That's a common MO for some women. They provoke by using hurtful words. Yap, yap, yap, and then the smackdown comes, whether physical or other. Then they can claim to be a victim, because all they were doing is trying to talk!

[Cicero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM5oRJMu2X0
check out the lyrics to this song linkin park always puts it in perspective

[solid]

One final note, during our crisis my anger was definitely used against me.

Beware! That's a common MO for some women. They provoke by using hurtful words. Yap, yap, yap, and then the smackdown comes, whether physical or other. Then they can claim to be a victim, because all they were doing is trying to talk!


Sneaky women! Don't trust 'em guys!

[lapis]

One final note, during our crisis my anger was definitely used against me.




Beware! That's a common MO for some women.



Sneaky women! Don't trust 'em guys!


Well yeah, especially the ones who will use your anger against you!

[G2Rad]

dys,

I have a relative similar to the one described in the original post.

She is so … hard to be any near. She drives me crazy.

Yet, she is part of the family; therefore I keep relationships with her in good standing.

On several occasions I’ve managed to go for a week+ -long family vacation trips in the same minivan with her without major strain.

Oftentimes after we spent an evening at my brother’s I feel so much hate that my blood boils. I cannot stop my thoughts from going back over and over again, re-iterating what she said or did few hours before.

Couple of times I had similar problems with some of my co-workers.

There is a simple technique I’d like to share that helps me personally manage situations like that and even turned couple of "enemies" into “friends” at my work.

I picked up the technique from reading the Bible.

I allow myself to remain as angered as I could be until before I go to bed.

Before going to bed I simply make myself say aloud “I forgive <insert the name>”. (No witnesses needed)

After I make my mouth run that phrase aloud, I feel anger dissipating little by little and next morning I am ready to handle the new day afresh.

I don’t allow anger and hate of the day to go overnight untreated.

Some people will say it is stupid. Well, perhaps it is stupid, but it works for me.

[bellevuebully]

After spending three days with me, doing all sorts of fmaily activities, she told me that she really has appreciated the last few days, and that it means a lot to her. I could tell she was genuinely happy and that is what I want, she was begging me to go back to my project. Problem solved.
No meltdowns required.


Hahaha. Sorry Awoke. Just poking a little marriage humour. ;D ;D

[silver solution]

Sometimes its good people think you are a little nuts. When people think you will show up and kill them and your smart enough to do it and get away with it they tend stay out of your business. They may even try to help you out as they don't want to see bad things go down.

Yes people think I'm a little nuts and yes some people even think I'm smart. Because people think I'm a little nuts those that know me know not to push my buttons. I just might do some thing they don't want to deal with.

Sometimes just using the right tone of voice and using the right words can get people out of your business fast.

This does not work with everyone but you can even back off fairly large city police department at times and Scared the hell out of some of them at times when needed. I have seen them pissing there panties and going to the press just because of a scary rifle.

[Awoke]

After spending three days with me, doing all sorts of fmaily activities, she told me that she really has appreciated the last few days, and that it means a lot to her. I could tell she was genuinely happy and that is what I want, she was begging me to go back to my project. Problem solved.
No meltdowns required.


Hahaha. Sorry Awoke. Just poking a little marriage humour. ;D ;D


Haha, good one. Truth is, I have been back on my project, but I wait until the kids are in bed and she is comfy on the couch watching crime dramas. lol