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Twisted Titan
1st May 2011, 07:01 AM
By Myra P. Saefong, MarketWatch

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — After silver’s impressive climb toward $50 an ounce, it would be difficult for anyone to believe the rally in silver is nearing an end, but it just might be.

What goes up must come down and for silver, known for its volatility, the more than 50% price spike year to date may be too good to be true.

After all, analysts and traders alike have been singing the praises of silver for years, and now that tone is changing.

We’re concerned because the rate of ascent in silver prices keeps accelerating,” said Mark Thomas, chief investment strategist at TheSilverShortage.com, which offers a newsletter about silver and silver mining investments. “A parabolic move like that can ruin any bull market short term.”



“Silver can make for happy buyers on occasion, but also for despondent ones more often than not,” Nadler said. Silver has “no business in or near the $50 an ounce region. It has been pumped up to these levels by the funds and I think they might get their hands slapped soon over this one.”

Buying craze
The mere mention of China’s or India’s interest in silver appears to have contributed a lot to silver’s rally. That may just be the red flag investors should be watching out for.

“China is now a net importer of silver from being a net exporter of silver over two years ago,” said Julian Phillips, an editor at SilverForecaster.com, adding that the country has actively encouraged the development of a country-wide distribution system for gold and silver.

China’s imports of silver quadrupled in 2010 to a record 3,500 metric tons, according to various news reports.

“There are stories around that Chinese retail buyers love silver as ‘cheap gold’, and you know what they do when they get seized by mania — even worse when they lose interest,” said Christopher Ecclestone, a mining strategist at Hallgarten & Company LLC, who’s bearish on silver and doesn’t believe the white metal should trade above $30.

Karnani said silver’s rise is all about “retail fury,” — and everyone in India and across the globe now wants to invest in silver.

In India, there is shortage of physical silver due to huge retail demand, premiums in physical silver are very high and, Karnani said, he’s never seen such a huge retail interest in silver. “Once the global retail fury settles down and/or reduces, silver prices will fall to $34.76 and below.”

Lagging shares
Mining shares offer another red flag pointing toward a potential end to silver’s rally, at least near term.

“Silver mining stocks exploded in March and about two weeks ago, stopped going up along with the metal,” TheSilverShortage.com’s Thomas said on Monday. “There will come a time when they are attractive again but at much lower valuations.”

Year to date, U.S. shares of Coeur d’Alene Mines Corp. /quotes/comstock/13*!cde/quotes/nls/cde CDE +0.03% , the largest U.S.-based primary silver producer, have fallen 4.6%, while Canada-based Silver Wheaton Corp.’s /quotes/comstock/13*!slw/quotes/nls/slw SLW -1.10% U.S. stock has climbed 5.2%.

“Silver stocks are flashing a warning sign,” said Sam Subramanian, editor of AlphaProfit Mutual Fund and ETF Newsletters. “Owners of silver stocks are becoming cautious as the risk-reward ratio for owning silver turns unfavorable.”

And with cash costs for producing silver at a new mine estimated at $10-$15 an ounce, according to Ned Schmidt, editor of the Value View Gold Report, “silver is going to come flying out of the ground at current prices.”


Silver is the ‘internet stocks’ of 2011,” he said, emphasizing that the metal is really worth about $16 an ounce.

The CME Group Inc. /quotes/comstock/15*!cme/quotes/nls/cme CME -2.72% has raised the initial deposit required for speculators to purchase a 5,000-ounce silver futures contract several times over the past few months, most recently on Tuesday.

The rise in margin requirements is “the guillotine blade being raised to the top of the structure,” said Schmidt. “The guillotine is about to slam down on those with their heads stuck out in the silver market.”

Cautious approach
Needless to say, silver’s big run has a lot of investors wondering what to do next. As analysts offer advice, the only common factor is caution.

Paul Mladjenovic, author of “Precious Metals Investing for Dummies,” said he still views $100 silver as a “when,” not an “if,” and warns that “silver’s next major correction will fool the pundits into thinking ‘the bubble has popped’.”

It’s still cheaper to acquire coins at $50 for silver than at $1,510 for gold, said Gijsbert Groenewegen, a managing partner at Silver Arrow Capital Management. “Investors might become a little bit cautious but long term there is no issue.”

Doug Lockwood, chief investment officer at Hefty Wealth Partners in Auburn, Ind., said the reward of alternative assets such as silver has been great over a long stretch, but “there is too much risk for very little reward at this juncture/short run and it’s best to take some money off the top” until the market gets a better view over the next couple of weeks on the Federal Reserve’s approach to unwinding the second round of quantitative easing.

So what’s the safest route? Place trades on dips in the silver price rather than chase its extraordinary rally, said Sam Kirtley, chief executive officer of SK Options Trading.

“We are not in a mania bubble phase yet, [but] there is a strong chance we will enter bubble territory soon at this rate, and that is why we are cautious,” he said





“We have now entered just the beginning of the third [and final] phase of the bull market in precious metals” — the phase in which everyone has become aware of the bull market but aren’t yet engaged and involved in it, he said. The third phase is far from over but when it ends, “precious metals will become a bubble with heavy public participation.”

Silver futures /quotes/comstock/21e!f1:si\n11 SIN11 +2.25% spiked 3.4% on Thursday alone to close at over $47.50 an ounce. Prices traded at under $31 an ounce at the end of last year and 10 years ago, the white metal sold for less than $4.50 an ounce. Read about silver’s upbeat prospects two months ago.


Now even The Grandich Letter Editor Peter Grandich, a self-proclaimed former “raging bull” on silver from under the $10 level, is saying “sell all silver holdings.”

“It’s not that it can’t go higher but I can’t first start buying it here, and I learned it’s best to consider selling when you can’t buy anymore,” he said. So, “if you like crowds, feel free to stay on board. For me, around $50 is a lovely destination to get off for a trip now eight years in the making.”

Risky business
In fact, quite a few analysts who have watched the silver market for years are throwing caution to the wind.

Chintan Karnani, chief analyst at Insignia Consultants in New Delhi, said he was bullish at the start of the year, in part, because of silver’s relative underperformance versus gold over the past three years.


Long term, he still expects silver prices to find support as currency markets breakdown, sovereign debt risk rises in the euro zone and other nations and calls for democracy in the Middle East and North Africa grow, with silver seen as a “cheaper alternative to gold for investment.”

Karnani never expected, however, that silver would be near $50 by the end of April.

“I am not bearish on silver. I am only concerned over the pace of the rise of silver,” he said. “For long-term sustainability, silver prices must fall for a week and then rise. If silver prices continue to rise, then a bubble will be formed and silver prices can crash to $25 next year.”

Just how impressive silver’s climb is compared to gold’s. Year to date, silver futures are up 54% while gold futures have gained under 8%.

“Silver has rallied, moving exponentially, while gold is still moving linear,” said Jeb Handwerger, editor of GoldStockTrades.com, in recent newsletters. “I am very concerned that silver may be overheating as the herd tries to force their way into this trade.”

A few analysts go even further and say silver’s not worth $50.

At this “important pivot point” in silver, the question is “sell now, or sell later?” said Jon Nadler, a senior analyst at Kitco Metals Inc.

Twisted Titan
1st May 2011, 07:06 AM
Nadler said. Silver has “no business in or near the $50 an ounce region.



The absolute nerve that this metal might begin to show its long term historical value

Hmmmmmph!!!

1970 silver art
1st May 2011, 07:29 AM
We’re concerned because the rate of ascent in silver prices keeps accelerating,” said Mark Thomas, chief investment strategist at TheSilverShortage.com, which offers a newsletter about silver and silver mining investments. “A parabolic move like that can ruin any bull market short term.”

“Silver can make for happy buyers on occasion, but also for despondent ones more often than not,” Nadler said. Silver has “no business in or near the $50 an ounce region. It has been pumped up to these levels by the funds and I think they might get their hands slapped soon over this one.”



In the short term, I have to agree with this. Everybody has to keep in mind that silver finished up 83% in 2010 and it is up about 55% so far in 2011 without a real smackdown. Silver has tried for 3-4 times to hit $50 but it has failed to do so each time. The fact that silver cannot even hit $50 after a run-up such as this seems to be a bearish indicator and might be a short-term top but I could be wrong on that. I also think that May is the beginning of the weak season for gold and silver. The fact that silver has run up so far too fast and that we are entering the traditionally weak season for PM's are the main reasons that I think that silver will NOT hit $50 in 2011. Silver has to cool off before it can resume another run IMO.

ShortJohnSilver
1st May 2011, 07:32 AM
Wasn't an ounce of silver a typical day's wage? If you work 8 hours in the USA you should be getting what, at least $64 (8 hours x $8)?

Glass
1st May 2011, 07:35 AM
yes sell in May and go away. It doesn't stop the trend though and the trend for the next few years, as mapped out by various CB's and Govts is currency debasement by increasing supply or by default. That really only leaves one buy left doesn't it. Of course these people only think you would buy it as an investment and you need to realise either a profit or a loss as a result of your buy. There is no other reason to buy it.

midnight rambler
1st May 2011, 07:38 AM
Silver is a finite resource, it is continuously and increasingly CONSUMED in manufacturing and military use, and yet someone thinks the POS is going to come back down (add into that "as the dollar collapses")??

Sure it is...

1970 silver art
1st May 2011, 07:50 AM
yes sell in May and go away. It doesn't stop the trend though and the trend for the next few years, as mapped out by various CB's and Govts is currency debasement by increasing supply or by default. That really only leaves one buy left doesn't it. Of course these people only think you would buy it as an investment and you need to realise either a profit or a loss as a result of your buy. There is no other reason to buy it.


Glass,

The long-term negative fundamentals of the U.S. dollar and the financial condition of the U.S. government have not changed. They have gotten worse and will continue to get worse and that will keep the long term bull market in gold and silver going. On a short term basis, gold and silver will get smacked down and I also think that the USD will have a small rally to 79 (maybe 80) but the long term trend of the U.S. dollar is still down.

This may not make sense to you but I am just short term bear-ish on silver (2011 only) because of the huge run-up too soon but I am long term bullish on silver (and gold) because of the long term negative fundamentals of the U.S. dollar and the financial condition of the U.S. govenment. The long-term negative fundamentals will eventually win over the JPMorgan manipulation but it will not happen in 2011. Nothing can just go straight up without a significant correction downward IMO and 2011 will be the year that we will see a big smackdown in my opinion.

Ragnarok
1st May 2011, 08:02 AM
Then it's time to consider swapping some silver for gold.

R.

Glass
1st May 2011, 08:28 AM
I'm with you 1970 silver art. I've been on the ride a couple years now and corrections have occured as we know. These are the times we look for and any credible heads up of an opportunity to buy is to be taken advantage of.

I'd like to know what you guys think of the Gold/Silver ratio and where you think that will go for the remainder of the year. I'm thinking along the lines of Ragnarok there.

Shami-Amourae
1st May 2011, 08:47 AM
I'm in the silver will get smackdowned this summer camp with Jr. I think at some point you'll see it back in the 20's this summer before climbing back up.


Bob Chapman thinks silver will eventually get to $400 and gold to $8000.
Peter Schiff mentioned $100-$200 silver.
http://radio.goldseek.com/




Our forum member Silver Shield was mentioned @17 minutes in.

Twisted Titan
1st May 2011, 08:49 AM
Anything can happen in the paper markets

The physical market is an entirely different animal

Remember during the great lockout of 08 when silver got slammed the spread on SAE's was still about 5 -7 bucks?


T

mick silver
1st May 2011, 08:54 AM
if a coin dealer paying xx for silver right now . there no way in hell in a month or so he going to sell that silver for 20 . just think about that

Horn
1st May 2011, 09:20 AM
Yeah, all that's great, but not until it hits $50.

Anything below $35 would be a very hard bottom.

Twisted Titan
1st May 2011, 09:48 AM
if a coin dealer paying xx for silver right now . there no way in hell in a month or so he going to sell that silver for 20 . just think about that



I will majically dissapear top the back room until prices become more favorable

Only a fool would sell if the price got slammed to 20

I would push every possible dollar in buy silver ( even skipping meals) if that were to occur.

T

Large Sarge
1st May 2011, 10:22 AM
silver $400-$600 minimum

and gold $5,000 minimum

upside to gold and silver is controlled by velocity of the dollar, the digital printing press, and the "madness of crowds"

sinclair is on the record for $20,000 gold

if gold hits $20,000, then Silver has to be be 4 digits..... ($1,000.00++)

TheNocturnalEgyptian
1st May 2011, 10:56 AM
Articles like this give sheep &/or people a glimmer of hope that their dollar system may not be totally flawed at a fundamental level. It lets them hope for some semblance of a "return to normalcy"


The music may keep playing for a while longer but the overall trend has been established and that will continue as well. Without basic, fundamental changes in the structure of how we view money, this is our course.

You can't QE3 my silver away.

Neuro
1st May 2011, 11:11 AM
I agree that Silver will go up to at least $400 within 2-3 years, maybe even more, but we will have major smackdowns between now and then, and I do think we are up for one now. The road to heaven is not straight. So far I have been able to buy silver granule here in Istanbul at spot price, even when silver was down to below 10$/oz in late 2008. If I can't get any when Silver is at $25, within a reasonable premium, then I made a mistake, but the psychology of a major shake out is interesting, people may not sell anything when the price goes down 10-20%, then a lot of sellers appear as it continues down 20-40%, to disappear below 40%. Once silver goes below $40 it will be in freefall to at least sub $30. But I wouldn't be speculating like I do if I had most of my silver in bars and coins with a higher spread between buying and selling. Silver granules SHTF value is very limited. Maybe it could be used in a shot gun for vampire-banksters...

Gaillo
1st May 2011, 11:29 AM
Yes... Silver "Mania" absolutely WILL come to an abrupt end... because most people will not be able to afford it any more! ;D

Son-of-Liberty
1st May 2011, 11:29 AM
I highly doubt we will see any massive smack down this summer. My dealer is only selling max ten ounces per customer over the counter. If you want more then that it is a 4 month wait. 3 weeks ago it was a 1 month wait. If it drops more then 10 bucks then I am buying with both hands. if it dropped into the low 30's then I would buy even more. I am not the only one thinking like this either. Any decent drop and the shorts are going to use that as an opportunity to cover which is going to put a cap on downside movement. If they don't cover and continue to short then when the COMEX finally does run out of silver and it will soon they will be finished.

Neuro
1st May 2011, 11:43 AM
Yes... Silver "Mania" absolutely WILL come to an abrupt end... because most people will not be able to afford it any more! ;D

I don't think we are there yet... ;) That's why we'll get an ordinary smackdown, now, not the several decade long long exhaustion following a blow off top...

keehah
1st May 2011, 11:48 AM
By Myra P. Saefong, MarketWatch

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — After silver’s impressive climb toward $50 an ounce, it would be difficult for anyone to believe the rally in silver is nearing an end, but it just might be.

What goes up must come down and for silver, known for its volatility, the more than 50% price spike year to date may be too good to be true.


Myra P. Saefong is stupid. Silver is not a person climbing a mountain but an inanimate comodity. The world does not work in one dimension. It is not difficult for some others to see changes as more than linear events.
Silver price was $18 last year to date. A 50% silver price spike would be $27. The truth is Silver price spike by over 150%.

The 'rally' was the rise and now fall of just another fiat currency.

That said the rally in silver ends for a few months most summers.

SilverMagnet
1st May 2011, 11:50 AM
There will no doubt be shakeouts as Silver climbs the mountain, but only those with unwavering confidence will reap the reward of the summit.

Heimdhal
1st May 2011, 11:57 AM
I'm with you 1970 silver art. I've been on the ride a couple years now and corrections have occured as we know. These are the times we look for and any credible heads up of an opportunity to buy is to be taken advantage of.

I'd like to know what you guys think of the Gold/Silver ratio and where you think that will go for the remainder of the year. I'm thinking along the lines of Ragnarok there.


40/1

46/1,850


You used the Platinum spot. Using the gold spot, the ratio is about 32/1. Defiintley worth swapping silver for gold ATM. Since just a couple years ago it was 60+/1

TheNocturnalEgyptian
1st May 2011, 12:13 PM
One of the truck drivers I know just got on board at $30/ounce (two months ago) and is happier than can be.

Son-of-Liberty
1st May 2011, 12:47 PM
I had a friend call me up the other day who is a doctor. He sounded scared about the future and wanted to know what was better gold or silver? I told him I thought silver had more potential upside over the next 2-3 years with the possibility of defaults on all the fake silver paper out there and that is where I would put my money but that he may want to diversify. He was going to drop 20k in PM's to start. Funny thing is this guy is normally out to lunch on these sorts of things, I had suggested it as an investment years ago and it had no affect but people are starting to wake up now. Seeds are starting to sprout. Something had him spooked and he knew gold and silver was something tangible that he could hold in his hand that would also preserve his wealth.

FunnyMoney
1st May 2011, 01:07 PM
... Something had him spooked and he knew gold and silver was something tangible that he could hold in his hand that would also preserve his wealth.



There is nothing spookier than little pieces of paper with fancy printing on them that people seem to readily accept for all sorts of things, as if those little pieces of paper were issued by God or something.

We have at least 10 more years left of this spooky fear catching hold. At some point trillions of dollars sloshing around and many more trillions owed and getting printed (stolen) everyday becomes a nightmare. For those not holding silver and gold when that time comes it will be a very bad nightmare.

ximmy
1st May 2011, 01:16 PM
A few analysts go even further and say silver’s not worth $50.

Thank you for the tremendous insight...
On Monday I will be trading all my silver for precious dollars... ::)

agnut
1st May 2011, 01:24 PM
Great thread Twisted Titan. Lots of thoughtful discussion too.

It appears to be a dilemma for many of those who are holding physical silver.

If silver spot prices fall from $48 to $30, they will be kicking themselves for not having sold early and then bought at the bottom. Nobody likes to feel like a fool for their missing having taken advantage of a potential silver price dump.

But the risk is in not being able to acquire silver at the bottom as well as the lack of available silver at that time in the future. Additionally, there may be a huge premium tacked on at the bottom. I wouldn’t want to be running all about with a wad of dollars in a desperate search for cheap, possibly unavailable silver.

So under such uncertainties, selling silver now and buying later at a much lower price may well prove to be the most foolish act of all.

Jesse Livermore, the Wall Street guru of the last depression, said that he made the most money by buying right and sitting on it. Not in trading stocks in short terms.

Ponce (resident guru) says that there is need and there is greed. Do we need to sell silver now or is it greed to have more silver ounces in the future ?

Is silver going parabolic only to ignominiously crash in a few months ? Or is silver merely playing catch up to other commodities ? Is silver going to crash but gold will not crash at the same time ? Does this make sense ?

Here is a thread this morning over at Gold-Eagle :

INFLATION RAGES IN U.S. CONSUMER STAPLE GOODS
(OPUS-DEI) May 01, 2011 09:40


The Fed and Washington are liars when they assert inflation is stable --- BULL$HIT !! -- it's a bold face gross LIE.

Here are the real inflation rates of what an average person needs for daily living:

Wheat prices soar 100% in less than 4 months
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CW/W

Sugar prices soar 114% in less than 9 months
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CF/W

Pork prices soar 225% in last 21 months
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PB/W

Milk prices soar 70% in last 21 months
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/DA/W

Coffee prices soar 121% in last 10 months
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CF/W

Gasoline prices soar 338% in last 24 months
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/RB_/M

Crude Oil prices soar 259% in last 24 months
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CO/M

Ways to view the Raging Inflation in the USA

- Inflation in consumer staple goods has increased on average 175% during the past 16 months (that’s almost TRIPLING PRICES)

- Average inflation is increasing more than 10% MONTHLY….YES, +10% PER MONTH

What is wrong with our myopic politicians?!
As Jim Cramer once screamed on TV during the peak of the Housing Bubble;

“THE FED KNOWS NOTHING!”
“THE FED KNOWS NOTHING!”
“THE FED KNOWS NOTHING!”

Respectfully, I submit our President is (CONVENIENTLY) deaf and callous to the suffering of the American people.
================================================== ======
So if commodities have gone up this much, why is it so difficult to see that silver has also gone up greatly. Besides, unlike the above commodities, silver has been held back for decades. Its great increase has only been magnified by the ending of the silver manipulation. Additionally, the world is rapidly waking up to what is and what IS NOT money.

Gentlemen and ladies, place your bets. I know that I am holding pat and will be buying more silver whenever able. There will be a time to sell; there is always a time to sell. Question is, if you sell now, how will you feel in the future ?

Holding physical silver is a patriotic act as well as self preservation from the predations of the paper money crowd. Only gold and silver are money and therefore stores of wealth.

Currency is for current times, as in right now. Who knows what debt backed paper fiat currency will be worth in a year. We only have to look at the past to know.

Best wishes and JMHO (just my halfassed opinion),

Agnut

Love will get you through time with no money better that money will get you through time with no love. So invest in your loved ones. Where principle earns interest.

oldmansmith
1st May 2011, 02:15 PM
If silver spot prices fall from $48 to $30, they will be kicking themselves for not having sold early and then bought at the bottom. Nobody likes to feel like a fool for their missing having taken advantage of a potential silver price dump.



Not me, I buy and hold so far. If it goes down I'll buy more. No way i'm getting caught on the beach when the big set comes in.

ximmy
1st May 2011, 02:19 PM
It appears to be a dilemma for many of those who are holding physical silver.


indeed... http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s222/chrisneros/smilies/ahhh.gif


... :lol

Son-of-Liberty
1st May 2011, 02:35 PM
If silver spot prices fall from $48 to $30, they will be kicking themselves for not having sold early and then bought at the bottom. Nobody likes to feel like a fool for their missing having taken advantage of a potential silver price dump.



Not me, I buy and hold so far. If it goes down I'll buy more. No way i'm getting caught on the beach when the big set comes in.




That is what I do also. I am no expert at calling short term tops and bottoms. Many of the experts have been making bad calls the last few months also so I don't feel so bad, but if the price falls I am smart enough to take advantage and buy more at a better price. In the long term we know silver is going to keep going up.

Neuro
1st May 2011, 02:50 PM
- Inflation in consumer staple goods has increased on average 175% during the past 16 months (that’s almost TRIPLING PRICES)
Yeah, but you selected some of the worst offenders, looked at where the bottom of the chart was and compared it to now, and averaged the time frames of these trough to peak happened. This is intellectual dishonesty. If you look at each commodity and look how much they have gone up on the exchange over the last 16 mths you would come up with something like 50% average increase, which is really bad in itself. But your way of calculating price inflation is worse than the government...

platinumdude
1st May 2011, 03:23 PM
I highly doubt we will see any massive smack down this summer. My dealer is only selling max ten ounces per customer over the counter. If you want more then that it is a 4 month wait. 3 weeks ago it was a 1 month wait. If it drops more then 10 bucks then I am buying with both hands. if it dropped into the low 30's then I would buy even more. I am not the only one thinking like this either. Any decent drop and the shorts are going to use that as an opportunity to cover which is going to put a cap on downside movement. If they don't cover and continue to short then when the COMEX finally does run out of silver and it will soon they will be finished.


Tyry freeze dried food in cans is a 6 week wait now. I have been done buying PMs and I'm into preps now.

platinumdude
1st May 2011, 03:40 PM
Looks like silver is going down hard now.

42.75 -5.19

steel_ag
1st May 2011, 04:11 PM
You can't QE3 my silver away.

solid
1st May 2011, 05:57 PM
The whole reason I bought silver, is because I don't know what is going to happen in the future. I can stash silver away for a rainy day, it's not going to be printed into oblivion like paper.

No way in hell I am selling my physical though. If the price drops, I'd love to add more to the stack. I'm hoping for sub 30's....even low 20's.

I'm in the camp of a mass sell-off as well, it happens. No big deal. The price rises too quick, folks panic and the masses sell. This time, however, we'll jump on that opportunity and gobble up all silver we can find.

It will happen quick, but the physical addicts (like us, and many other paper haters...) it will be a short smackdown, and once the cowards are out...it's off to the moon!