Premiums rising quickly

[bellevuebully]

I know this probably belongs in PM sub, but I really thought this was too important for the general community to be aware of to risk getting buried.

I look at Kitco for the premiums because historically they have been the lowest and most consistant as far as I am aware.

In Dec '10 Maples were at around +3% and Phils at +2.75%.

Today, Maples at +19% and Phils at +11.9%.

Hold your stack. That should be telling us something.

fwiw

[Cebu_4_2]

Just a matter of time my friend.

[mamboni]

I know this probably belongs in PM sub, but I really thought this was too important for the general community to be aware of to risk getting buried.

I look at Kitco for the premiums because historically they have been the lowest and most consistant as far as I am aware.

In Dec '10 Maples were at around +3% and Phils at +2.75%.

Today, Maples at +19% and Phils at +11.9%.

Hold your stack. That should be telling us something.

fwiw



We're talking gold bullion coins, yes?

http://www.24hgold.com/english/buy_sell_gold_coins.aspx?co_id=0

[Son-of-Liberty]

Silver. The premium on the Maples is retarded. Just noticed that they had them back in stock but with a hefty premium increase this morning.

[Cobalt]

The dealers probably ordered them at the highs and now they are adjusting the premiums up so as not to take a loss

[bellevuebully]

I know this probably belongs in PM sub, but I really thought this was too important for the general community to be aware of to risk getting buried.

I look at Kitco for the premiums because historically they have been the lowest and most consistant as far as I am aware.

In Dec '10 Maples were at around +3% and Phils at +2.75%.

Today, Maples at +19% and Phils at +11.9%.

Hold your stack. That should be telling us something.

fwiw



We're talking gold bullion coins, yes?

http://www.24hgold.com/english/buy_sell_gold_coins.aspx?co_id=0

yes

[bellevuebully]

Silver. The premium on the Maples is retarded. Just noticed that they had them back in stock but with a hefty premium increase this morning.


Yeah, that is a massive premium. I have been surprised at the steady, relentless climb.

[bellevuebully]

Phils now at 12.3$.

0.4% rise in what, 5 hours.

Btw, all other stock that was posted available 24 hrs is limited to US buying. No question, the physical demand is there in mass. Don't be distracted by the comex price.

[iOWNme]

My local guy is selling Silver generic for $1.50+ over spot, Eagles for $5+ over spot, and Maples for $2+ over spot.....

[ximmy]

My local guy is selling Silver generic for $1.50+ over spot, Eagles for $5+ over spot, and Maples for $2+ over spot.....


you should pick up those maples...

My local dealer also stays about 2.00 over spot, when he has anything... as the swings increase, the disconnect will probably hit all dealers, online & local...

[bellevuebully]

My local guy is selling Silver generic for $1.50+ over spot, Eagles for $5+ over spot, and Maples for $2+ over spot.....


You could buy those Maples and sell them to kitco at 1.7% gain. Not that I would doi it but not bad for zero risk.

[1970 silver art]

The premiums went up for some of the local dealers in my area. For example, I was paying between $1.50 to $2 over spot for .999 generic silver (ex: silver art bars) before the silver smackdown from 48 to 35. After the silver smackdown, the premium is now between $3 to $3.50 over spot for .999 generic silver. That was no surprise to me that the premiums would rise that quickly since spot silver fell hard and fast in that first week in May.

[mick silver]

we have all seen this play out before . the dealer pays xx for silver hes not going to eat a loss

[milehi]

Today at the B&M, I paid 3 bucks over for a handfull of Phils still in their blisters. Generic was a buck over. Sometimes I get a nice break on the premium; somtimes I'm not charged tax. Today was no tax.

[solidus]

Apmex is down to $5.09 from $5.49. Lowest premium in weeks. Maybe as a % of spot it is still high but nominal premium seems to be heading down.

[gunDriller]

it's interesting that premiums are so high.

normally, we see that at times when the paper market has pushed prices artificially low.

so - does that mean prices now are artificially low ?

is $35 the new $10, for silver ?

[madfranks]

I was just at the Denver Coin Expo today and I saw generic silver rounds for spot + $1.50, plus (unbelievably) 5-oz generic silver bars for $34/oz, which was about $1.40 under spot! I picked up a couple, crazy!

[bellevuebully]

we have all seen this play out before . the dealer pays xx for silver hes not going to eat a loss


I am making my comparisons on an international dealer who has historically been consistant in their pricing. Local small dealers and medium sized dealers probably shuffle their premiums around based on their latest buys, but I think big dealers base their model on 'it all works out in the wash'...and leads them to set their premiums on relatively set percentages.

I personally think what has been happening with kitco's premiums is an indication of market dynamics.

Let's not forget econ 101...supply and demand. Price reduces as demand reduces. If the price is plumetting, why are the premiums on demand increasing?

[bellevuebully]

I was just at the Denver Coin Expo today and I saw generic silver rounds for spot + $1.50, plus (unbelievably) 5-oz generic silver bars for $34/oz, which was about $1.40 under spot! I picked up a couple, crazy!


That is awesome. And crazy.

I'll buy'em off you for spot. ;D

[1970 silver art]

I was just at the Denver Coin Expo today and I saw generic silver rounds for spot + $1.50, plus (unbelievably) 5-oz generic silver bars for $34/oz, which was about $1.40 under spot! I picked up a couple, crazy!


Congrats Madfranks. :) It is very rare to get .999 generic silver for that much below spot.

[1970 silver art]

My local guy is selling Silver generic for $1.50+ over spot, Eagles for $5+ over spot, and Maples for $2+ over spot.....


Those are very good premiums IMO on the Maples. I think my dealer charges much more than $2 over spot but I do not know exactly how much. Sometimes my main local dealer might throw a silver Maple in the .999 genric bin and price it like .999 generic silver if it is "scruffy" or is flawed in any other way.

[bellevuebully]

Phils +12.43%

Maples +19%

[ximmy]

I checked ebay today and there was a $10.00 + premium for SAE's retail (over spot)...

[bellevuebully]

I checked ebay today and there was a $10.00 + premium for SAE's retail (over spot)...


There's no doubt the paper price is not reflective of the real price. I'm going to try to update this thread regularly pricing Phils and Maples from the Kitco site (like I said, they seem like a pretty reasonable baseline). I would be surprised if we don't see a steady increase. Regardless, it should give a good picture of availability. We'll see.

Actually, I'll start to include their buy price also. A change in their bid would be interesting to follow also.

[gunDriller]

one of the things that's interesting is the increasing spread between 24-hour and spot prices.

they used to track with 1 cent for silver, and $1 for gold.

today the spread was about 15 cents for silver at times - 1/2% of the manipulated paper price.

[bellevuebully]

Here's some numbers for today. Because I have to flip pages to get the data, the spot price changes but pay note to the percentages...

Kitco ask:

spot @ $33.70

Phils $37.95 +12.6% (still rising)
Maples $40.20 +19.3%



Kitco bid:

spot @ $33.61

Phils $33.42 -0.6%
Maples $35.07 +0.4%

[Son-of-Liberty]

Looks like they are just gouging the market. When they are willing to pay a couple bucks over spot for both phils and maples then we know there is a real shortage.

The only thing I see that suggest a shortage at kitco is that they can't seem to keep anything in stock for the Canadian market other then 1000oz bars.

[bellevuebully]

The only thing I see that suggest a shortage at kitco is that they can't seem to keep anything in stock for the Canadian market other then 1000oz bars.


Exactly. I've have never seen that in 10 years. The last 7-8 months have been ridiculous. Haven't seen monster boxes since Jan. 100 oz are posted and disappear within the day. I don't need any other evidence to know demand is high. I've been paying attention to this game long enough to things have changed.

[bellevuebully]

Kitco ask:

spot @ $35.49

Phils $39.74 +11.9%
Maples none available


Kitco bid:

spot @ $35.25

Phils $35.10 -0.5%
Maples $36.75 +0.42%

[bellevuebully]

Hope everyone had a good weekend.

Heres Monday pm #s....

Kitco ask:

spot @ $35.24

Phils $40.24 +14.2% (Whoe nellie!)
Maples 17.7%

Kitco bid:

spot @ $34.91


Phils $34.79 -0.4%
Maples $36.44 +4.4%



edit to last update.....I entered +0.42% on Kitco Maple bid....should have been 4.2%

That's quite a kick up on the Phils.

[Ponce]

Don't judge what is going on in the US by what is going on here because what you are looking at is not real, even if it is supposed to be "official".......look towards China and India to see the real action that is going on under covers..................................If you don't hold it, you wont get it.