Veganism

[EE_]

Any vegan's here? Ever try it?
I recently started weight training at a gym, the owner and guys that work there are trying to get me on a vegan diet.
Can you train seriously on a diet like this, without wasting away and still get the muscle you are after?
I don't think I could give up animal products, but I'd be willing to go half way for a healthier diet, while training.

[Shami-Amourae]

I don't do it myself since I'm a slut for meat and fried foods, but Charlotte Gerson nailed down the best way to do it IMO.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/health-and-fitness/charlotte-gerson-tapes/

Basically you need a high powered (and expensive) juicer like a Norwalk (http://www.norwalkjuicers.com/). This will extract the proteins that are naturally in the vegetables (other juicers just give you the water, not the enzymes/proteins/and so on.) You probably might want to supplement with Vitamin B-12 and Iron (take it in the form of Blackstrap Molasses).

If you want to be vegan, then go all out and do it the right way by what Naturopaths say, not the way Western doctors tell you to. Just my two cents.

[sunnyandseventy]

I was trying to make the move to being a veggie earlier this spring. For numerous reasons I fell off the track. One of them being its cook out and snack bar food season. Damn Michigan Dogs!

[Road Runner]

I did do the whole food plant based diet for over a year. I started with blood work before and after. When I started I had really high cholesterol, IBS, diverticulosis/itus, inflamation in my body, many aches and pains and extra weight. I actually went through a 20 day program, no meat, dairy, sugar, caffeine, ketsups, etc. I had heart burn alot also. The program had 15 minutes of stretching each morning, 15 minutes of upper body and next day lower body training in a weight room. Walked as many miles as we could. Had tons of water type therapies, physical therapy/massage for muscle issues. 4 days into it I had the worst headache a person could stand for a whole night. The food was very different but I liked it. I begin to gain muscle and lose fat. After just 20 days my blood work had made drastic changes. All cholesterol was in normal ranges, inflamation went down over 50%, all my pains and intestinal problems were symptom free. I felt like a 25yr.old at 57yrs. My husband tried the changes for about 2 months and just couldn't do it. Gradually it took about a year for me to get really back off track. Sadly my back got bad and the winter long as it was, I ended up gaining back weight, losing muscle and having back surgery so got off of the exercises for a few months also. I have just lately started getting back on track cause I miss how good I felt. They had us drink wheat grass juice every day also. I drink aloe vera juice daily also. I think if you be careful with meat and try and eat only grass fed,it is far better for you. Cut your portions down if you eat a big man size piece. Part of the trouble for me crowding 60 is that a person doesn't cut portions down as we age. I think with drastic diet changes your family needs to be supportive as it is hard when you are the only one unless you are a real strong self disciplined type. Your thread has given me the added push to get back on track!! Good Luck

[EE_]

Thanks ladies, great info!
Do you think you really need to go all the way to get great results?
Wouldn't eating mostly food discussed here have great benefits to your health?
I just don't think I can't give up lean beef, skinless chicken breasts, fish, eggs and skim or 1% milk.
Oh, that damn bacon...that's a hard one! :P

I've been hooked on frozen organic blueberries for a little while now, on pancakes, cereal or anything else I can think of.
Try these, I think you'll like them! http://www.safeway.com/CMS/assets/media/CPG/OOrganics/productImages/thumbnails/100/00079893401706.jpg

Next week I'll post an all vegetable pasta sauce recipe I'm going to try making...If it turns out well.

[Road Runner]

EE, I think you are on a good path. A person has to do what is comfortable to them. Only reason I made drastic changes was a lot of symptoms that were bothering me daily. My weakness is sugar and bread, both of which bother me, so I need to just say a hell no to them. My husband thinks the exercise had more to do with my changes than my diet changes. We work hard on the ranch, but that is different on the body than walking and doing strength exercises. Anyways good luck. I like bacon, lettuce, tomatoe sandwiches!!
That darn bacon anyways!! ;D

[Book]

I just don't think I can't give up lean beef, skinless chicken breasts, fish, eggs and skim or 1% milk.



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pmIQSV_6HWg/TOG7KhvczqI/AAAAAAAACEA/UQ5i8BlauZs/s1600/steak.jpg

http://www.lookpictures.net/photos/registered_photos/1205-cheeseburger-wallpaper.jpg

Good luck buddy!

:D

[ximmy]

What you talkin about Old Herb Lady...

[nunaem]

Any vegan's here? Ever try it?
I recently started weight training at a gym, the owner and guys that work there are trying to get me on a vegan diet.
Can you train seriously on a diet like this, without wasting away and still get the muscle you are after?
I don't think I could give up animal products, but I'd be willing to go half way for a healthier diet, while training.



There's nothing healthy AT ALL about veganism. On the contrary, if you want to be healthy make your diet very, very high in meat. Humans are omnivores leaning very strongly to the carnivore side of the spectrum, we evolved our large brains thanks to meat, not by mimicking gorillas.

http://freetheanimal.com/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/

Watch the Fat Head movie, read Gary Taubes, Weston Price, and tell the owners of that gym to go suck their own mock sausages. Veganism is murder! to your health.

[nunaem]

I can't stress this enough, STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM VEGANISM!!!1

Read this 'success' story for what you can expect from it:
http://freetheanimal.com/2011/04/a-100-raw-vegan-success-story.html

Go on a paleo/primal diet. Mark's Daily Apple (linked above) is a great guide.

[Neuro]

No doubt you can survive and even thrive on a vegan diet, but I don't think it is easy. B12 and the right blend of aminoacids come to mind, there are probably a few other micronutrients that you would have difficulty finding in a vegan diet... I was vegetarian for a couple of years, 15-17 years ago, not so difficult, but in the end I just missed the taste of meat and the satisfaction eating it gave me. I didn't really feel full eating a vegetarian diet, no matter how much I ate...

[steyr_m]

Wrong Wrong Wrong. "Those who say it can't be done shouldn't criticize those who are doing it."

Do these people look like their brains have developed /evolved large enough for you ?


Sorry, we have evolved to eat meat, fat, organs, plants, nuts & berries. Lot's of Inuit out there in history who did fine eating only seal/whale blubber. What do you think this girl thinks now of veganism? She would probably be fine if her parents gave her a normal diet. The link was dead, so I had to find a repost from a blog.

Parents of ill vegan girl may face police - Times Online
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 087734.ece
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Parents of ill vegan girl may face police
Mark Macaskill

A 12-YEAR-OLD girl in Scotland brought up by her parents on a strict vegan diet has been admitted to hospital with a degenerative bone condition said to have left her with the spine of an 80-year-old woman.

Doctors are under pressure to report the couple to police and social workers amid concerns that her health and welfare may have been neglected in pursuit of their dietary beliefs.

The girl, who has been fed on a strict meat and dairy-free diet from birth, is said to have a severe form of rickets and to have suffered a number of fractured bones.

The condition is caused by a lack of vitamin D, which is needed to absorb calcium and is found in liver, oily fish and dairy produce. Decalcification leads to the bones becoming brittle and can cause curvature of the spine.

Dr Faisal Ahmed, the consultant paediatrician treating the child at the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Glasgow, declined to discuss the specific case. He said, however, that he believed the dangers of forcing children to follow a strict vegan diet needed to be highlighted.

One leading nutritionist, who asked not to be named, said: “In most instances, the parents who are imposing this very restrictive and potentially hazardous diet are not themselves brought up as vegans. They are imposing on their children something . . . which we do not know enough about to know it is safe.”

Jonathan Sher, head of policy at Children in Scotland, an umbrella group representing 400 organisations, said social workers should intervene where a vegan diet was putting children’s health at risk.

Last year, an American vegan couple were given a life sentence for starving their six-week-old baby to death. In 2001 two vegans from west London were sentenced to three years’ community rehabilitation after they admitted starving their baby to death.

Glasgow city council said the incident involving the 12-year-old girl had not been referred to its social work department.

[ximmy]

This really disturbs me... :-\

Vegan baby dies because mother's milk was vitamin deficient

http://www.hunter-gatherer.com/blog/vegan-baby-dies-because-mothers-milk-was-vitamin-deficient

[nunaem]

I always feel fantastic when I eat a diet with 80+% of the calories coming from meat and eggs (and butter of course). I have tons of energy, mental clarity, my skin looks impeccable, I'm always in a good mood, and many other improvements. This might be attributable to avoiding grains, but if you avoid grains your calories have to come from somewhere else, why not meat? There's a very good reason meat tastes so good to us, we didn't evolve our taste for meat by munching on grass.

It's true that we are omnivores, but we are only omnivores out of opportunism. When we had the choice between meat and anything else it was meat uber alles.

[Son-of-Liberty]

I don't recommend going vegan. It isn't healthier then other types of diets and it is lacking in quite a bit of essential nutrients unless you are extremely diligent and plan out every meal.

Meat has taken a bad rap. It gets blamed for weight gain, high cholesterol and heart disease when the real culprits are sugar, wheat, processed crap and unnatural oils like margarine. Then people advocate exteme measures like vegetarianism. It really is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The first thing anyone that wants to eat healthier and lose weight needs to do is cut out all refined food from the diet for a few months and see what happens. Make all meals from scratch, buy quality meat like steak instead of garbage like bacon or lunch meat. Eat plenty of vegetables and some fruits. If you can't do this you aren't going to be able to pull off any of the more extreme diets.

90% of people would see excellent results just doing this but they don't want to. They want a diet that lets them continue to eat the garbage food they are addicted too.

Personally I eat a paleo type diet most of the time although I do still have some wheat or dairy from time to time. I have been getting excellent results.

[Olmstein]

I have yet to personally meet any vegans who seem healthy. They always seem tired and lifeless.

http://rantinglunatic.blog.com/files/2011/02/meatMurder.jpg

[steyr_m]

Umm, I think possibly we have 'evolved' into thinking that if we go without some meat for any length of time that
we are going to starve, shrivel up & die at anytime. As the brain has evolved into a bigger mass than it once was
we get dumber as it gets bigger. LOL. I think that I've been around wayyy to many healthy vegans & vegetarians
in my life to see a different picture of health & vitality, that's all. America needs meat, lots of meat to be satisfied, full
and happy. My husband thinks he's gonna die without his roast or steak. The body craves whatever it's been given
for years & years and to go without it would be unheard of.


I want to find those 'healthy vegans & vegetarians' you're talking about. Most vegans/vegetarians I've met look gaunt, ill, and jaundiced. I also have met more ex-vegans/vegetarians than one's who actually live it - because it is un-healthy. The body needs [animal] protein. Period. The mind will let you see everything you want to see.

I refuse to discuss an issue with someone looking at it wearing a neck-brace and blinders. I can easily say, "The body craves whatever it's been given for years & years and to go without it would be unheard of" for your argument for veganism.

I gave you three examples of either babies dieing or a pre-teen being extremely ill and probably screwed for the rest of her life because of the choices the parents made, and you're still defending it? Those kids would be healthy and normal today if it wasn't for the bad decisions their parents made. They'd be even healthier if their parent gave more meat and less refined carbs. ....because it's what nature intended us to eat. Vegans I guess can be healthy; but they need to make special dietary decisions. A person who eats meat, fat, plants, nuts, berries has everything they need right there. Nothing special involved.

The moral of the story is, I personally don't give a crap what you do; but don't push your morals on other people and impede their health.

[steyr_m]

Steyr M

There are GUN OWNERS who do not know how to use a gun properly, or store it properly.
And that results in DEATH ALL OF THE TIME.
Does that mean ALL gun owners don't know what they're doing ? Are they all wrong ?
Nobody should use guns because they can kill you if you don't use them the right way ?

Education & training & practice is needed. You can't just pick up a rifle & start shooting it without
knowing what the heck you are doing. People will DIE !

Veganism is the same way. You have to be smart about it & know what you are doing.
You can't be acting like an idiot with it.

Responsibility & brains are required. People just think they can say .....................
(talk like Bart Simpson or beevis & butthead).........................
"We're vegans (^laugh like them too) we don't eat meat or anything with a face on it "
But they have NO CLUE what they are doing & they let their kids get malnourished & ill .
It's just stupidity that's killing the people not the veganism just like stupid people with guns.

(Insert beevis & butthead laugh)


Sorry Old Herb Lady, I like you; but this is a losing argument. If you eat what I said in my last post, you don't need "Education & training & practice"

[steyr_m]

You don't know the whole story, the baby died because the parents were idiots..............



Yes, you are correct. They were vegans and pushed their morals on their baby.