6 Cyl. F150 Full-Size Truck - Enough to Haul 4 Wheel Trailer with 1 Ton Load ?

[gunDriller]

I am writing to ask fellow G-S.us'ers about load-hauling Do's & Don'ts.

A friend with a machine shop passed away, leaving behind a fully-equipped machine shop, which his widow has offered to sell to me for a very low price. She doesn't want to go the "estate sale auction" route, she's trying to sort of keep his possessions "in the family".

But I have to move it several hundred miles.

I have talked to a number of truckers but have had trouble finding a trucker who is comfortable loading the machines AND is reliable - a Bridgeport Series 1 weighs 2400 pounds ... and my late friend had 2 of them.

Overall the load would be about 10,000 pounds, with tools & everything.

What I was thinking about doing is to buy a 4 wheel trailer, like this -

http://oi53.tinypic.com/ori5fm.jpg

and to start out by hauling 1 milling machine (on the trailer) and the tools (in the back of my truck).

I would be hauling about 1000 pounds in my truck, and about 3400 pounds behind my truck (2400 for the milling machine, 1000 for the trailer).


What I'm wondering is, can a 6 cylinder truck haul a load like that up an incline like the Grapevine on I-5 north of LA ?

My truck is in good shape, especially in the brakes area (knock on wood). The trailer does not have brakes.

Like they say in surfing, don't ride the wave if you can't survive the wipeout.

In this case, a worst case 'wipe-out' would be a flat tire or something while I'm rolling - causing the load to dump on Highway 5. Obviously that could cause fatalities - for which I would be liable.


Is it nuts to attempt to move a load like this with a 6 cylinder truck ?

I have carried up to 2000 pounds in the truck, no problems. But this would be a much bigger load. Also, no matter what I do, the trailer would be top heavy - the center of gravity would be about 5 feet off the ground.


One thing I also wonder is - what happens when a trailer carrying a load gets a flat tire ? I have a 5000 pound hydraulic jack for changing a tire on the truck.

If the trailer is loaded so that it's about as heavy as the truck, is it realistic to use the same jack to lift a corner of the trailer while the trailer has a 2400 pound Bridgeport on it ? I'm thinking I would need to load the trailer with the possibility of a flat tire en route in mind.

This move has the potential for great danger ... but the pay-off is major - it's a beautiful shop. I paid my late friend $3000 to $4000 to do machining for me using the tools I would be buying - they're good tools.


It's literally a once in a lifetime opportunity, and I'm trying to assess what tools I need to do the job safely.

[mightymanx]

NO is the short answer


That trailer would push you all over the place. The only place I have had my brakes catch on fire was the grapevine. hitting a runaway truck ramp can save you but everything will be destroyed.

Look at the door sticker on your truck and look at the GVWR that is the total amount the truck is rated to carry you can go about 25% over that and not hurt the truck on perfect flat roads you can probably do 50% over that. That trailer probably weighs 3k by it's self and you want to overload that truck and the trailer

DON'T DO IT!!!

Rent a truck and trailer get a 5 ton and an equipment trailer with brakes

[Dogman]

Agree with all said above, the milling machines are top heavy and assuming you have a lathe also to move , which is also top heavy. The trailer in your pic does not look like there are strap or chain strong points that you can strap or chain boom your load to the trailer. Look into renting a flat bed truck that you can use load ratchet straps or chains and boomer's, you want that equipment tightly secured so it will not wiggle or move AT ALL! The other option is to get some lumber and box everything up and use wood to lock the equipment in place in the box. Loading the truck, ? how did your friend receive the equipment and get it into his shop? You will need to do the same.

That trailer in your post w/o brakes and looks like it has no good way to secure the load as said in other posts is a sure fire guaranteed way to hell in a hand basket.

Some pull trailers could do the trick, but they have to have attachment points on the edges for chains and or ratchet straps . Your truck may be able to do the trip, if you are careful of the load and the trailer ether has a tongue or electric brake setup.

[Tumbleweed]

Gundriller if you were to haul them the way you described you might get away with it but it's not worth it. You'd be out there on the edge. Blowing a tire pulling a hill in heavy traffic is a bitch! I've been up and down the grapevine hill you speak of many times. I don't see any reason why a trucker would hesitate to load and haul the milling machines. If there were a bunch of loose tools that would be another thing. If the tools were in a crate or some kind of container I wouldn't think there'd be a problem.

I hauled a lathe and milling machine for a friend of mine. Each was worth about $20,000 when they were new a long time ago but I suspect they'd cost a lot more now. Best not to take any chances with things like that. They were on pallets and wrapped with plastic. They were loaded with a fork lift, no muss no fuss then unloaded with a farm tractor loader. It was easy to load them with the fork lift but more difficult to unload them with a farm tractor and loader. Best to have a fork lift for loading and unloading.

I was in the area where the lathe and milling machine were located my friend bought so I hauled them for him. Really no problem loading or chaining them down secure. I didn't charge him anything to haul it. He offered to do some machine work for me when I needed it in exchange for the hauling. You may be able to find a trucker who'd like the same kind of deal in your area. Here's a photo of them on my truck.

[gunDriller]

thanks for all the replies !

that pic is not doing the job, i would have adequate tie-downs. in the case of the wood bed, if i had to improvise, i would use something like 3/4-10 screw eyes with fender (oversize) washers.

i would be checking the load every rest stop and tightening up any loosening.

although i am much more experienced tying nots using braided nylon roap, and have 5/8" and up nylon rope in my stash of stuff preparing for the possible move, what kind of straps professionals use, you see it when you drive past a big truck on the high-way - straps with a ratcheting tie-down mechanism.

i was thinking it might be more realistic if i started out with a 2 wheel trailer with a 4000 pound capacity and only moved 2 things - the Bridgeport, and maybe 600 pounds of tools, low-profile tools that can be attached to the bed of the trailer, to balance the load.

and then move it slow, e.g. 200 miles a day.

however, i don't think that any amount of planning or patience or detail mindedness can change the physics of driving with a Bridgeport on a light trailer - you have to turn very slowly. And any need to swerve at speed increases the chance of a spilled load ... where objective #1 is 100% safety.

objective #1 1/2 is not breaking the budget.

i talked to UHaul and their trucks have a height limit, so far. i forget the exact details, it's all written down.

the pickup location has a 7 foot entrance - my friend had his machine shop business in their garage in Suburbia. inside the garage the ceiling is 8 feet 6 inches. objective #2 being to not damage the house, so the ram on the forklift has to be low enough. with some forklift rental places, that was a problem.

i have found one or 2 forklift places that have the medium capacity forklift that can fit under the 7 foot entrance.


but the guy whose truck i was going to use is flaky. we had talked about a local side move involving an old car, he didn't return my call when i called his cellphone to make that happen. that's the short version.

his rig to do the Bridgeport move is instructional. an F350 with a Cummins, and a 26 foot trailer. he's an independent trucker, that's only one of his trucks.


i understand why they have to make milling machines so heavy, and i learned on a Bridgeport and actually have never used a different brand.

2 big precision machined iron castings = one of the coolest machines on earth !

but, well this is sort of a side-note from the subject of moving them - you can get better rigidity for the weight using other materials. most of the parts i have designed in work jobs were machined aluminum.

i wonder if anyone has ever made a milling machine with most of the capacity and all of the range of the bridgeport, using steel ways or a similar mechanism, but attached to an aluminum frame. it may not be able to accomodate a 1+ inch cutter, but you can do a lot with 1/2" & 3/4" shank cutters.

[ShortJohnSilver]

I think what you really want is to get a gooseneck or (Canadians sometimes call them) "float" trailer, and have a full size 18 wheeler haul it. Shrink wrap, place hardwood strategically for bracing or to avoid rubbing, chain it down. Should be easy enough to get off/on due to lower level of the gooseneck; lower center of gravity for the trucker.

I would estimate perhaps $1.35 to $1.55 per mile for this. Lots of hungry truckers out there looking for such a load. Go with a small to midsized trucking co that has owner-operators, that way you are covered by their liability insurance and the o-o will give you good service and care about doing a good job.

[mick silver]

why not just rent the right truck for the job ...

[Book]

NO is the short answer...DON'T DO IT!!!



Exactly.

[TomD]

Do you play Russian Roulette?

[mightymanx]

Try Ryder the industrial side they rent large trucks real ones not like the u-haul junk. When the freightliner was in the shop we rented from them. they rent 2ton on up to semi tractors with sleepers.


I just thought of this:

I had a HEAVY big ass crate the crate weighs 1200 pounds the engine inside 2200 I needed shipped from FT Bragg to Seattle. I used U Ship you pose an ad and truckers bid on the load. I got it here for $800 cheap compared to comercial shipping companies that the cheapest bid was 1700.
this is what a lot of the independent truckers use to suplement their loads when they have to deadhead back or have room on a truck.
It's free to place an add and you are not commited to anything.
http://www.uship.com/

[willie pete]

I wouldn't do it that way......have you looked into having it all shipped? I'd GUESS somewhere around $1200-$1500 Personally I wouldn't take the chance with what the Load is worth

[skid]

A trailer that size should have brakes ( 4 wheel car hauler). Are you sure it doesn't? You mentioned you could buy a trailer like the one in the picture. Did you buy that one? Buy one with trailer brakes, otherwise it is a useless trailer and an accident waiting to happen!

I borrowed my neighbor's trailer (same size) and loaded it up with about 7000lbs of fertilizer and it was no problem stopping as long as you adjust the trailer brakes for the load. I don't see why you would have any problems controlling it. I have a 1 ton Dodge with a cummins diesel, so pulling was no problem. I used just the trailer brakes for stopping (no truck brakes) once just to check it out and it stopped both units no problem.

A flat tire wouldn't be too big of an issue as you have two per side.

Besides trailer brakes, the biggest problem would be for that weezer Ford to pull it up a hill. As long as you went slow you should be alright. Better check your coolant first though...

[Olmstein]

Promise us, gundriller, that you will let us know how this goes.

[Ash_Williams]

10,000 lbs with an F150? Your tow limit is going to be around 5000 lbs with that truck with the V6. Your transmission may never be the same if you do make it up the hills and the gas gauge will fall so fast you'll probably see it move.

And you don't want a trailer that weighs more than your truck being towed with no brakes. And you don't want the cops seeing you do this.

I would get a long, enclosed rental truck from Uhaul that is meant to move that kind of weight. You'll have no issues starting, stopping, turning, etc. If you're going hundreds of miles you might save a good amount money on fuel by running the diesel rather than straining your little V6 and that can go towards your rental fee.

[agnut]

Hi gundriller. I’ve been over the grapevine with an intercity Greyhound bus and it was no picnic. Having to go up in low gear because of the inclination as well as stay in low gear going down in order to use the Detroit diesel engine as a brake.

Lots of good advice here but if you choose to not heed it, could I get an insurance policy on you and your gear ? Just kidding but please don’t even consider trying this with your ½ ton truck with 6 cylinder engine, small brakes and OMG, no trailer brakes.

There is nothing like the white knuckle E ticket ride of being at the wheel of an out of control overloaded vehicle and trailer careening down the freeway. I know; I’ve been there more than once.

I had a vertical mill and lathe many years ago and had it professionally moved. The cost of having heavy equipment moved properly is as integral as buying the best quality cutting tooling for the mill and lathe. Remember that there is not only the road transport but also the loading and unloading as well. Are you able to handle such heavy machinery ? You will probably need a forklift.

Perhaps a rental truck with a heavy liftgate ? With the lathe and mill both being top heavy, you had better have some reliable hold downs on the trailer/truck.

Another option is using a tow company’s rollback truck. They can cable snatch the mill and lathe and pull them into position on the bed. Unloading also may be an advantage since you may not need a forklift. Depends where you are placing the equipment in the shop.

I had a couple of 10 X 20 metal storage containers (4,000 pounds each) moved last year and was only charged $100 in total. So shop around; truckers need the work, especially these days.

Best wishes and be safe; we can’t afford to lose a member as valuable as you over saving some flaky fiat paper currency ! Now physical gold and silver; I’d have to think about that for a while.

agnut

[gunDriller]

Promise us, gundriller, that you will let us know how this goes.


OK !

thanks again for all the replies !


i went & looked at the tag on the driver's door side.

"5500 GVWR". maybe i'll go to a local scale & see if i can weigh it empty.

i would like to know what the maximum safe hauling capacity is, tried a search using keywords "6 Cyl. F150 load capacity"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=6+Cyl.+F150+load+capacity&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

this thread came up, actually at #1,

Also the Ford page -
http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/compare/

"Maximum Payload (lbs.) 1830"

... that's for a 2011 6-cylinder.


i also found this thread.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/archive/index.php/t-13517.html

"I have a 1989 f150 6 cylinder ford pickup. I haul a 1500 pound camper along with a 1400 pound boat. I have air bags in the rear and two extra leaf springs. Two on the left side (Im Fat) and one xtra on the right. I have towed this rig for like 60 hour trips driving. Never had a concern except drive carefully cause the brakes dont work i downshift like a mad whore and pump the brakes a bit. Just dont drive over your head and youll be ok. I also hauled besides the camper a box trailer large and heavy a six wheeled argo and a fj1200 motorcycle with a boat on behind the box trailer. And every nook and cranny was stuffed with crap, i moved up north, also my one ton toolbox.This trip was to thunder bay from waterloo ontario. No problems but a couple of second gear hill climbs on hwy 17 to the great white north. Oh blew two tires had to get heavier ply ones too much weight."


it looks like my truck is basically useful for hauling my late friend's tools (end-mills, vises, rotary vise things, etc.) sort of, whatever i can fit in the back of the truck.

[ximmy]

Shouldn't be a problem... You can do it!!! :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyXgMal3C1U

[Ash_Williams]

This is a bookmark I have for a quick lookup of manufacturer's tow ratings:
http://www.trailerboats.com/towrating/index.cfm?action=search&yr=1996&make=Chevrolet%2FGMC&model=Suburban+K2500+%284WD%29&min_tlimit=&max_tlimit=

Scroll down until you can enter a model and a year and away you go.



i went & looked at the tag on the driver's door side.

"5500 GVWR". maybe i'll go to a local scale & see if i can weigh it empty.

Probably you are going to find it around 4000 lbs. Putting 2000 lbs in a 1/2 ton pickup will change the handling in a way you'll notice. Your brakes just won't brake the same. I'd only do it if it was someone elses truck.

Your payload capacity is mostly just your tires and suspension.
Your towing capacity is your tires and suspension to some extent, but more importantly it's your transmission, your rear diff, your engine, your brakes... each one of those things has to be up to the task.

If you look on the underside of a truck that is meant to tow 10,000 lbs, you'll see the difference. The rear diff will be twice the size, and there will be a set of monster brakes. The transmission will be a monster. It'll have a class 5 hitch too.

The main concern with towing isn't really the horsepower. Your v6 might have as much power and torque as a 1 ton pickup from the 80's. What will break your truck is smaller fluid capacities (your fluids will heat up faster) and a lack of cooling - the engine can overheat, the transmission fluid can burn, and your rear diff fluid can turn to crap. The rear diff on a truck meant for towing has a different ratio too, to keep the strain off the engine and tranny.

[goldleaf]

I do dumb shit like this all the time. ;D If the distance you're going isn't that far you
could sneek by. break it down into two trips if you can. Load more on the trailer axles
to keep tongue weight down. If you start out knowing you don't have brakes just drive accordingly, its when they go out during the trip when you get in trouble. If you have an
automatic overdrive keep it in direct, the constant up and down shifting is hard on transmissions. Run backroads if possible. I haul 12 to 14000 lbs of round hay bales on
my 22ft trailer with a half ton chevy with a gutless 305 engine, would get something
different if I had to do it everyday.

[skid]

Gundriller, what you need to look for is GCWR for (C as in combined truck and trailer). I have a 2005 f150 and looked in the manual: 6 cylinder/auto can tow a 5600 pound trailer and a max combined total weight of 10500 lbs with a 3:73 diff. The only other diff available with a 6 cylinder engine was a 3:55 with a max rating of 10000 lbs combined. Check your manual, but you'll probably be ok. The v8's rate as high as 15300 GCWR with a regular cab.

[gunDriller]

What will break your truck is smaller fluid capacities (your fluids will heat up faster) and a lack of cooling - the engine can overheat, the transmission fluid can burn, and your rear diff fluid can turn to crap. The rear diff on a truck meant for towing has a different ratio too, to keep the strain off the engine and tranny.

it sounds like, if you are near the capacity limits of a truck, it sort of "gets tired"/ needs to cool off.

so that it becomes a good idea, perhaps, to pull over every 50 miles or 100 miles at a rest stop - more going uphill, or if you're going downhill & braking a lot.



I haul 12 to 14000 lbs of round hay bales on
my 22ft trailer with a half ton chevy with a gutless 305 engine, would get something different if I had to do it everyday.


does your 22 foot trailer have brakes ?


i wonder in general if it makes sense to rig up differential, brake calipers, transmission housing, etc. with digital thermometers & bring the read-outs into the cab.

so that way you have a little more insight into how close the truck is to the limits.

[gunDriller]

http://www.usedtrucks.ryder.com/Vehicle/VehicleThumbnailView.aspx?vehicleid=405081&keepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&width=804&height=516

http://vehicleimages.ryder.com//images/405081-2.jpg

So what do you think of a truck like this ?

Body Type STAKE FLAT

GVW 17950

Brake Type Hydraulic

HP 190

I was looking at their truck sales to show the truck rental people what I want to rent.

Think this would do the job ?

2 Bridgeport mills, 2400 pounds each.
1 Small CNC Lathe, 700 pounds

Misc tools, sheet metal tools, grinder air compressor etc.

I have a specialist on the pick-up end who has moved hundreds of Bridgeports. That is, a buy to help me load the truck.

That leaves me with the task of making it up a driveway (about 12 degrees) and doing the un-load, using a rented Fork Lift.


Or is that Isuzu under-powered ?

http://vehicleimages.ryder.com//images/922362.jpg

This one is spec'ed at 25500 pounds.

But still the engine HP is 195 ... wierd ... i guess it's the torque, brakes, suspension, and frame that help make it capable of moving the heavy load.

[osoab]

I don't think that lift gate would take the big ones. I also wouldn't trust it for the 700 pounder unless I saw the specs.

I would go with the bottom style of truck imo.

[LastResort]

We have the exact same International at my work. Two mills and a small lathe will be peanuts for that truck.

[mick silver]

why not rent a trailer to go with the truck
http://www.usedtrucks.ryder.com/Vehicle/VehicleThumbnailView.aspx?vehicleid=405081&keepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&width=804&height=516

http://vehicleimages.ryder.com//images/405081-2.jpg

So what do you think of a truck like this ?

Body Type STAKE FLAT

GVW 17950

Brake Type Hydraulic

HP 190

I was looking at their truck sales to show the truck rental people what I want to rent.

Think this would do the job ?

2 Bridgeport mills, 2400 pounds each.
1 Small CNC Lathe, 700 pounds

Misc tools, sheet metal tools, grinder air compressor etc.

I have a specialist on the pick-up end who has moved hundreds of Bridgeports. That is, a buy to help me load the truck.

That leaves me with the task of making it up a driveway (about 12 degrees) and doing the un-load, using a rented Fork Lift.


Or is that Isuzu under-powered ?

http://vehicleimages.ryder.com//images/922362.jpg

This one is spec'ed at 25500 pounds.

But still the engine HP is 195 ... wierd ... i guess it's the torque, brakes, suspension, and frame that help make it capable of moving the heavy load.

[Olmstein]

Glad to see you're starting to think bigger here. Either of those trucks would do the job. I would pick whichever one is easiest to load. What's the rating on that lift gate?

[osoab]

gunDriller,

Have you tried putting an add out on Craig's list? Just a thought. Make sure they have a CDL and are insured along with whatever regs Cali has.

I think above you said something about a crazy drive. The lower truck might have issues if the grades are too steep. I am thinking of the brakes.

I wouldn't use the 1st one for the job no matter what unless it was two or more trips. What is the weight of the other stuff along with all the rigging to strap down?