Steam electric hybrid... Ultimate SHTF vehicle?

[Neuro]

Now I am thinking of building a steam engine hybrid car. Build one of these to generate electricity:
up to about 7kW:
http://www.greensteamengine.com/2_cyl_specs.jpg
Have a couple of car battery's for extra buffer for acceleration, and short trips. Power electric wheel engines with the generated electricity, and zoom away.

The good thing about this particular steam engine is that it will probably last for ever with barely any maintenance. Further you can use it to generate electricity for your house when you are not driving... And it is silent, and you can use whatever fuel you want to run it...

Here you can order plans for the construction of this modern steam engine:

WARNING! This engine may not be as good as stated by the seller!

http://www.greensteamengine.com/products.htm

Another benefit with this set up is that you can use the steam engine electric generator to power your house, and you can use the heat produced by the steam engine to heat up the house and get hot water. And it is not dependent on wind or sun, so you don't need a huge battery bank.

[Plastic]

Where is the boiler on that thing?

[gunDriller]

the first one's the hardest, even if it just generates 10 watts.

i used to have an engineering manager who always said, "point on a curve, good enough is perfect". obnoxious as hell, Jewish guy from NYC with a PhD working in Sil. Valley. and a back-stabber, it turned out.

BUT his advice about getting a "point on a curve" was good advice, what he meant was, to just get the first prototype built ASAP. i didn't always know when to hem in my detail management skills, so i would be a perfectionist when rough cuts were good enough.

i'd like to build a steam engine too. and a diesel engine. and a gun.

[ShortJohnSilver]

Where is the boiler on that thing?
That is just the engine. The boiler is another kettle to consider.

Used to work at a plant where the plant engineer decided that electricity was the future fuel of choice. He put in several steam boilers in the heating plant. They worked on the principle of 1) develop a 13.8kv arc 2) spray water on it. These things could go from cold to a full head in 10 seconds flat. They powered up the first one and it took down half of a major city.


14KV is what comes off the power lines, so their electricity bill was far less per-kwh as a result (no transform to lower voltage = much cheaper electric rate). It was not the engineer's fault, it was the fault of the power co.

[Neuro]

Where is the boiler on that thing?
Yes you do need a boiler, one of the benefits of this engine is that it works well with low pressure steam (allegedly 8) ), however I think I want to use a tubular model, which can heat up the water quickly, further using a condenser, and a pump to bring back the water into the boiler, so that you dont need to bring along a humongus water tank. Another benefit of this engine type (allegedly) is that you don't need to grease the moving parts up with oil, which means that oil will not build up in the boiler/condenser loop water...

A steam engine is a very long lasting generator too, compared to a diesel or gasoline generator, it can run on its peak capacity for 10's of thousands of hours...

[Neuro]

the first one's the hardest, even if it just generates 10 watts.

i used to have an engineering manager who always said, "point on a curve, good enough is perfect". obnoxious as hell, Jewish guy from NYC with a PhD working in Sil. Valley. and a back-stabber, it turned out.

BUT his advice about getting a "point on a curve" was good advice, what he meant was, to just get the first prototype built ASAP. i didn't always know when to hem in my detail management skills, so i would be a perfectionist when rough cuts were good enough.

i'd like to build a steam engine too. and a diesel engine. and a gun.

I do agree with this sentiment! Even though I seldom practice it 8)... I am a bit of an armchair engineer, I admit. But this summer I have 2 mths of holiday, and plenty of cash from my silver sales...

[mightymanx]

I personaly prefer wood gas to steam there are already millions of internal combustion engines lying around and moreso if the SHTF so being to convert one of those seems more practical to me.

I went the steam way for a while practicine converting a 2 stroke dirtbike engine to steam (mixed results)

Wood gass there is less to fabircate from scratch. and one less recource to scavange (clean water)

Don't get me wrong, I love me some steam engines, (well hell I like all engines ) but for SHTF I think wood gas is the equivalant of modern day alchemy.

[Neuro]

I personaly prefer wood gas to steam there are already millions of internal combustion engines lying around and moreso if the SHTF so being to convert one of those seems more practical to me.

I went the steam way for a while practicine converting a 2 stroke dirtbike engine to steam (mixed results)

Wood gass there is less to fabircate from scratch. and one less recource to scavange (clean water)

Don't get me wrong, I love me some steam engines, (well hell I like all engines ) but for SHTF I think wood gas is the equivalant of modern day alchemy.

Yes I like wood gas too, and you have a good point about it, that there are millions of cars that can be converted to it when the SHTF. However, with a steam electric hybrid, you can also use it to power your house when not driving your car, both for heating and electricity. Further if you recycle the steam with a condenser, you will not use a lot of water. The biggest drawback IMO with the steam electric hybrid, is that it will still be sensitive to an EMP event, natural or manmade, however if you don't use complicated electronics you can quite easily restore it, or maybe it won't be affected at all?

[Neuro]

I recall reading somewhere that the average car, doesn't use more than 5-7 HP, on average, when travelling. Thus that is the benefit of the hybrid engine. You don't need to generate much more than that, and if you need more than that for acceleration or driving at a very high speed, you can use a battery as a buffer, for that extra energy, meanwhile you let the steam engine produce the average amount required, when you use more, the battery will get discharged, and when you use less, the battery will get charged...

I am considering having the steam engine electric generator as a separate wagon pulled behind the EV, this means that for shorter trips you can go without the added weight of it, relying on only battery power, and you can keep the steam engine generator plugged into the house, generating heat and electricity, and the car would be much lighter.

Another option would be to build an mobile home powered and heated by the steam engine, when you are driving the steam engine provides electricity and heat for the vehicle. When it stands still, it would provide electricity for lamps, computer, refrigerator etc. And heat up the living space, all this can be powered by wood and twigs you pick up next to the road... Or if you don't want to feed the boiler all the time you can have an automated wood pellets system, or power it by natural gas or gasoline.

[Plastic]

Some steam people consider Mr Green to be a ripoff artist. They also claim some people built his engine, could'nt get it running without major redesigning and no help was available when they needed it.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3486.0

Things just did'nt seem right to me when plans for the other engines of his are not available without huge $'s for international licensing so I dug deeper.

Ahh well, too good to be true thingy...

Perhaps other designs from other designers are available elsewhere for cheap or even free?

Dunno about you Neuro, but I was so intrigued I checked out prices for metal lathes heh.

EDIT:

LOL here is more

These have been around for probably 60 years in one form or another. They are called a swash plate
engine, and though the guy is trying to get other people to buy a "license" to produce his "new" design, they
are old as WWII.

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/archive/an-extraordinary-engine__o_t__t_33793.html

Old as WWII *cackle*

[Neuro]

Thank you plastic, it just didn't seem right to me either that the more complex efficient engines were only available at an international manufacturing license. I was actually going to order the plans today for the engine... If something seems too good to be true, usually it is because it is...

[Neuro]

Has anyone else seen any designs of lightweight and efficient steam engines?

[Plastic]

Has anyone else seen any designs of lightweight and efficient steam engines?


You so interested me with the post that I ordered two books from Amazon called...
Steam and Stirling: Engines You Can Build.
This one was'nt cheap, it is a 30 year old book and cost 40.00 but has 159 pages of what I imagine to be diagrams.
Along with a book on gear cutting for S&G's.
They will take up to 2 weeks to arrive, but when they do I'll will let you know if it was worth it.

Also while rummaging around the interwebz yesterday I caught a hint in those posts I quoted above about steam engine forums and people that have built them. May help to do a search on/for them, I'll do it later today or in the evening and report back in this thread. If you find something please post it here as well, hell I may end up selling more silver to buy a metal lathe afterall.... :P and :'(

[gunDriller]

Has anyone else seen any designs of lightweight and efficient steam engines?


only the ones in my head.

i will try to print one out but it will take some time ! ;D

[Neuro]

I was reading about this Steam Engine developed by Bob Kirtley, for remote controlled hydrofoil model boats, that generated 5 HP, from a cylinder volume of 13 cc, this is less than a cubic inch. It propelled the hydrofoil up to above 120 mph. This was very close to the world record for gasoline powered internal combustion engines for RC hydrofoils (close to 130 mph), however those had a cylinder volume of 30 cc. I tried to find any information on his engine design, but couldn't find any.

Then you have the cyclone steam powered engine, that reaches a thermal efficiency of around 30-35%, iow converting about 1/3 of the heat produced by the fuel into mechanical work, which is similar to the modern diesel engines. Seems like a good design, but very complicated and nothing you can build in your garage. Further you can pretty much use any type of liquid fuel in this one, but no twigs and logs...

I would like a lightweight, simple, fairly efficient steam engine that can generate about 7-10 HP (5-7 kW)... To generate electricity with a generator, to power electric wheels that have a maximum of 5 kW of power on each wheel (4 of them) for a maximal total of around 30 HP. On average the vehicle will not use more than 5 kW, but in acceleration it could tap into a small battery pack for extra power. You wouldn't need a gearbox in a car like this, neither stearing. Stearing can be achieved with a joystick, that gives different power to each individually powered wheel... The weight of the car could be under 600 pounds with the steam unit, and under 400 pounds without it (Short battery powered trips without the steam engine)...

[Neuro]

Has anyone else seen any designs of lightweight and efficient steam engines?

I found one myself. This is a casting kit for a steamengine originally used to power an aeroplane in the 30's. It is a halfscale model. The full scale engine would develop around 70 Hp and weigh aproximately 100 lbs, divide those numbers by 8 (2^3), and this engine should be able to develop around 8 Hp and weigh less than 15 pounds...
http://www.myersengines.com/engines/steam_aircraft_engine.htm
You can buy the kit for $295 + shipping... I just sent in a request asking for how much shipping is to Sweden. Continental US is $22 btw...

[Neuro]

I finally got a reply from Myers engines a couple of days ago. They will ship the kit engine parts to Sweden for $58. So I asked to have it shipped. However it will take a couple of weeks before they have the cast engine kit...

[Neuro]

This is how it looks btw, for you who like me is generally too lazy to click on links, unless really motivated:

http://www.myersengines.com/images/Steam_Aviation_Engine_2181_1.JPG

[Plastic]

Awesome looking little thing Neuro.

BTW, that book I purchased "Steam and Stirling, Engines you can build" came in and I consider it to be well worth the 40 frn's spent. Now I need to win the lottery to afford a large metal lathe and high end induction furnace for steel melting......

[Neuro]

You can't hire someone to do it for you, for a smaller sum? Unless you are considering doing at a massive scale of course! ;)

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZk4uizFHEA&feature=player_embedded

[Plastic]

You can't hire someone to do it for you, for a smaller sum? Unless you are considering doing at a massive scale of course! ;)


If you're gonna do something, do it big. (tongue emoticon here)

[Neuro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZk4uizFHEA&feature=player_embedded

Damn I don't know why youtube videos show up blank on my ipod after transition to vb...

[Neuro]

If you're gonna do something, do it big. (tongue emoticon here)

Thats the spirit, everyone should have at least one steam engine!

[keehah]

Much impressed with the second picture. That top one has me questioning if it can even carry a load. How much load can it sustain? If its not much its really a toy.

Like a train without a track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP61e9fKdAQ

[crazychicken]

Interesting to say the least

CC