Shroud of Turin is a fake created by famous master Giotto.

[Ponce]

Shroud of Turin is a fake created by famous master Giotto, claims Italian art expertBy Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 10:25 AM on 8th June 2011

The Shroud of Turin was made by medieval artist Giotto, it was claimed yesterday.
The 14ft length of fabric, said to be the burial cloth of Christ, bears a faint image of a man and appears to be stained by blood.

However carbon-dating tests have suggested it was produced between 1260 and 1390.
Controversy: An art critic has claimed the Shroud of Turin, an ancient linen sheet revered by some Christians as the burial cloth that wrapped Christ's body after his crucifixion, was created by the Italian master Giotto
Now Italian art expert Luciano Buso has suggested that the original cloth deteriorated and Giotto was asked to make a copy.
Controversy: The face on the shroud
After months of careful examination of photographs of the Shroud - the relic is kept locked away and not available to be viewed unless on special occasions - Luciano Buso has come up with an idea worthy of a Da Vinci Code thriller.
He says that several veiled appearances of the number 15, hidden in the fabric by the artist, indicate Giotto created the Shroud in 1315 - and that it is a copy of the original which had been damaged and was then lost over the centuries.
Giotto was perhaps the best known artist of his time and was made famous for his decoration of the Scrovegni Chapel in Padua, the fresco that depicts the life of the Virgin Mary and Christ.

Mr Buso insists that 700 years ago it was common practice for artists to insert partial dates into their works so as to guarantee their authenticity and it was known only to a handful of people so as to avoid forgeries.
His claims, which form part of a new book he has written, would coincide with 1980's carbon dating - which has been dismissed by the Church - and which puts the Shroud's origins in the early 14th century.
Masterpiece: The Mourning Of Christ by Giotto at the Scrovegni Chapel in Padua, northern Italy

Breathtaking: One of Giotto's frescoes inside the basilica at Asissi in Perugia
Buso, who is based in Treviso, northern Italy, said: 'I have examined extremely clear photos of the Shroud and spotted a number of occurrences of the number 15, in the face, the hands, and in one case even shaped to look like a long cross.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2000406/Shroud-Turin-fake-created-famous-master-Giotto-claims-Italian-art-expert.html#ixzz1OjyLFetW

[ShortJohnSilver]

What about the evidence of the pollen from plants found in the shroud, which are not native to Italy but are native to Palestine?

[Ponce]

I was thinking the same thing........but........a good forger will age the wood for the frame, steal a piece of the old time canvas and make the paint as it was done in the old days..............maybe the guy went to Palestine to get the seed because he new of the testings that would be done in the future?, but I don't think so..........and how about the photo of the inverted image?, in the old days they didn't know anythng about photos or of how the negative would work into the image of Christ.............so in conclusion, it was either made in modern time or is the real thing.

While I am not into religions in the back of my mind I wished that it is the real thing.

[Dogman]

I was thinking the same thing........but........a good forger will age the wood for the frame, steal a piece of the old time canvas and make the paint as it was done in the old days..............maybe the guy went to Palestine to get the seed because he new of the testings that would be done in the future?, but I don't think so..........and how about the photo of the inverted image?, in the old days they didn't know anythng about photos or of how the negative would work into the image of Christ.............so in conclusion, it was either made in modern time or is the real thing.

While I am not into religions in the back of my mind I wished that it is the real thing.


One problem, not sure if at the time they even knew what pollen was or did. They were smart by their standards but ignorant as rocks in most things by our standards.

Just saying

[Bullion_Bob]

Around that time forensics was as alien a concept as DNA sequencing, or rocket science.

People put far to much faith on how intelligent people were back in those days. I'd put them in around an average IQ 8 year old of today. Doctors (the most learned even by todays standards) used to drill holes in people's skulls when they had headaches to let out the pressure. Imagine that. Idiocracy 101.

Freaking disaster from any sort of intelligence concept.

[7th trump]

Around that time forensics was as alien a concept as DNA sequencing, or rocket science.

People put far to much faith on how intelligent people were back in those days. I'd put them in around an average IQ 8 year old of today. Doctors (the most learned even by todays standards) used to drill holes in people's skulls when they had headaches to let out the pressure. Imagine that. Idiocracy 101.

Freaking disaster from any sort of intelligence concept.



And yet they mapped out the world in sailing boats guided only by the night stars. Built pyramids that cannot today be duplicated. And most likely ate the best unpoluted foods. Used gold and silver as currency. Worked an honest living. Fought hand to hand combat.
The best of the best!

[Ponce]

Bullion? the Aztecs used to do three panning on the heads of their people for battle wounds and many survived......in Rhodesia they used to operate on the eye for catarat and it worked.

[horseshoe3]

People put far to much faith on how intelligent people were back in those days. I'd put them in around an average IQ 8 year old of today.


I look at it as "what did you do with the tools you had available?"

I can sit at my desk with a CAD program and make drawings that a draftsman from the 40s could never do, and in a lot less time. Does that mean I am a more skilled draftsman than the guy in the 40s? HELL NO. It just means that I have a tool that allows me to be more productive. If anything, that tool has become a crutch and I have less real knowledge than my predecessor.

[Ponce]

I second that.......but still.....it was a good story and it shows what the old could do with what they hat at had.........."Is not what you have but what you do with it"........remember that in what is to come.

[Neuro]

Doctors (the most learned even by todays standards) used to drill holes in people's skulls when they had headaches to let out the pressure. Imagine that. Idiocracy 101.

Freaking disaster from any sort of intelligence concept.

Actually Dr's do that today too if you have an intracranial hemorrage. It makes sense actually, but of course not from every headache...

[Bullion_Bob]

People put far to much faith on how intelligent people were back in those days. I'd put them in around an average IQ 8 year old of today.


I look at it as "what did you do with the tools you had available?"

I can sit at my desk with a CAD program and make drawings that a draftsman from the 40s could never do, and in a lot less time. Does that mean I am a more skilled draftsman than the guy in the 40s? HELL NO. It just means that I have a tool that allows me to be more productive. If anything, that tool has become a crutch and I have less real knowledge than my predecessor.



I'm talking 500+ years ago.

[Bullion_Bob]

Around that time forensics was as alien a concept as DNA sequencing, or rocket science.

People put far to much faith on how intelligent people were back in those days. I'd put them in around an average IQ 8 year old of today. Doctors (the most learned even by todays standards) used to drill holes in people's skulls when they had headaches to let out the pressure. Imagine that. Idiocracy 101.

Freaking disaster from any sort of intelligence concept.



And yet they mapped out the world in sailing boats guided only by the night stars. Built pyramids that cannot today be duplicated. And most likely ate the best unpoluted foods. Used gold and silver as currency. Worked an honest living. Fought hand to hand combat.
The best of the best!


Sure they made boats, and sailed all over the place, and it was trial and error until people learned enough to stop sailing into the rocks and drowning, getting lost at sea and starving to death, or having their boats fall apart. 100 monkeys in a room with typewriters syndrome.

Take 10,000 people, whip them to death, and you will see the same pyramids built today.

Some people back then spent several years of their lives just chiseling tiny portions of rock to perfection or face death, or they did it thinking they were surely going to the afterlife for serving their god.

It's one thing to be smart at craftsmanship, and manipulation of physical objects, quite another another to be enlightened beyond manual labor, and mundane tasks.

[Neuro]

I wonder what they carbon dated? Further the older the object carbondated, the less certain the dating is. They may have just found a twig in the earth a few meters down, and they found it to be more than ten thousand years old. This proves nothing! They need to find a clearly manufactured object out of live materials within the pyramid, and carbon testing it. If not it is just BS!

[horseshoe3]

I'm talking 500+ years ago.

Same thing, only more so. Knowledge is built on knowledge. Calculus seems rather simple to us now because it has all been figured out and developed for us. Newton was truly a genius. If he hadn't done it, you certainly wouldn't - nor would I.

Heavier than air flight. Pretty easy. Raise Ev thus lowering Ep to get lift. Bernoulli figured it out, because he built on Newton's work. So Bernoulli invented heavier than air flight, right? Wrong. The internal combustion engine hadn't been developed to the point where the power to weight ratio would allow it. Don't get me started on all the technological building blocks that went into the ICE. Long story short, the Wright Flyer started with Newton - or before - and had to have inummerable foundations layed before it could be built. Were the Wright brothers the smartest people on my list? Probably not. They had the right idea at the right time in history. It's very possible that Da Vinci would have invented heavier than air flight if the contributing technologies had been developed.

My point is that human knowledge is built on previous knowledge. Therefore, the earlier people could not be more advanced than later people. Not because they were dumb, but because they didn't have the right tools. Or as Newton put it, "I could see far because I stood on the shoulders of giants."