Lease solar power

[EE_]

This sounds like a good way to go and has potential for huge growth.
I might have to look into this. http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/48365542?preferredArticleViewMode=single

More U.S. homes lease solar panels with no upfront costs

By Wendy Koch, USA TODAY

Updated: 06/14/2011 9:34pm

Amid a booming U.S. solar market, more homeowners are able to lease rooftop panels — some with no upfront costs — and pay only for the power produced.

A large provider, SolarCity, of San Mateo, Calif., announces today a new lease option in which customers can "pick their price" in going solar: paying either nothing upfront with higher monthly fees or more initially and less monthly. To finance installations in 7,000 to 9,000 homes, Google is creating a $280 million fund.

"You have full flexibility in what you want to pay on a monthly basis," says SolarCity CEO Lyndon Rive, noting homeowners are charged only for the electricity the company's solar panels generate at or below market rates. If the panels produce more than what the home uses, the consumer gets a credit. "It's actually a win-win," Rive says.

This concept is taking off. At least four large California-based companies, including SunPower in San Jose, offer such leases, in which they install, maintain and continue to own the panels. They report record sales.

"This industry is going gangbusters despite the economy," says Danny Kennedy, founder of Oakland-based Sungevity. He says the lease option that his company began offering in March 2010 has pushed sales "through the roof." He expects to do 3,000 leases this year, up from 1,000 last year.

SunRun, headquartered in San Francisco, doubled its number of leases — to 10,000 — in one year and expects to add 12,000 new ones this year, CEO Edward Fenster says. He says homeowners want cheap, green power but are wary of making a $35,000 investment. With a lease, he says, "You don't assume any risk."

In California and Colorado, leases accounted for more than a third of the residential solar market in the first quarter of this year, according to a report to be released Thursday by the Solar Energy Industries Association, a trade group.

The growth reflects that of the overall solar panel market, which expanded at an average annual rate of 69% since 2000, including 100% last year, according to SEIA, which expects another doubling of the market this year.

The biggest limitation is geography. Each company is offering leases only in certain states that offer financial incentives and have relatively high utility rates. Among the states, collectively, are: Arizona, California, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania and Texas.

Also, even if located in an eligible state, homes have to get enough sun to be viable.

"We look at a house on Google Earth" to see if its site orientation will work, says Rive at SolarCity, which has done 12,000 leases so far. If not, his company recommends a home improve its energy efficiency.

[osoab]

What happens at the end of the lease, balloon payment? Who is responsible for the panels under the lease? Do I have the authority to move the panels if I am leasing them?

Just a few questions.

Might be a good way to get some free panels if you think TSHTF shortly.

[EE_]

What happens at the end of the lease, balloon payment? Who is responsible for the panels under the lease? Do I have the authority to move the panels if I am leasing them?

Just a few questions.

Might be a good way to get some free panels if you think TSHTF shortly.

I like the way you think!
Sure you can move the whole system...just take it to a secret bugout location that is in another's name. :-)

[po boy]

I see any competition as a good thing.

[JohnQPublic]

My neighbor is doing this. Terms may be different with different companies, but in his case, he keeps the panels after some period (20-25 years, I think).

He will be paying a little bit less than he pays now in payments.

Utilities go up (likely) he wins. Utilities go down, he may lose.

[osoab]

I am reminded of a post from over at Denninger's forum.

I am only paraphrasing, I can't remember the exact quote.

Using solar generated power to run a 4000 watt dryer is pretty fucking stupid.

[ximmy]

It's always better to buy outright... I've been looking at the costs & parts for building a solar system for my home... batteries and maintenance are the most expensive parts.

I forgot where I read but one guy bought one 80 watt panel (around $250.00), then had to buy a mechanism to connect the panel to the meter (around $200.00 I think) and had an electrical contractor do that part. Now he just adds a solar panel when he can afford them. Seems a good way to start

BTW, a grid tied solar system capable of providing all the home power should cost less that $10,000.00... not $35,000 as the article says, that is ridiculous...

You could probably construct Zaps 220 volt industrial set up will full battery backup, and totally off grid for less than $35,000.

Zap.. what do you think???

[EE_]

It's always better to buy outright... I've been looking at the costs & parts for building a solar system for my home... batteries and maintenance are the most expensive parts.

I forgot where I read but one guy bought one 80 watt panel (around $250.00), then had to buy a mechanism to connect the panel to the meter (around $200.00 I think) and had an electrical contractor do that part. Now he just adds a solar panel when he can afford them. Seems a good way to start

BTW, a grid tied solar system capable of providing all the home power should cost less that $10,000.00... not $35,000 as the article says, that is ridiculous...

You could probably construct Zaps 220 volt industrial set up will full battery backup, and totally off grid for less than $35,000.

Zap.. what do you think???

My biggest concern is when the power grid goes down...and I think it will eventually.
I must have AC in the summer!
I spoke with a couple solar companies and cost is substantial, close to $30,000.
If I didn't need to run central air, I'd probably give it a go with my own system. You need a whole roof full of solar panels and lots of batteries to do what I need.
Maybe where you live, you could survive with no air...so all you need is your refer, lights, TV and computer.
I think a 5,000 watt system will suit those needs

[osoab]

My biggest concern is when the power grid goes down...and I think it will eventually.
I must have AC in the summer!
I spoke with a couple solar companies and cost is substantial, close to $30,000.
If I didn't need to run central air, I'd probably give it a go with my own system. You need a whole roof full of solar panels and lots of batteries to do what I need.
Maybe where you live, you could survive with no air...so all you need is your refer, lights, TV and computer.
I think a 5,000 watt system will suit those needs


Bite the bullet and only cool one or two rooms. Preferably a basement.

[mick silver]

ee what about a room air for the night time would that work for you . i too was just thinking the same thing . i had to have air at night . at day time i dont need air because i am outside almost all day

[LastResort]

I looked into basically the same a couple years ago. Not leasing but basically renting to own. I only wish I was able to financially get a place where i could set up some panels and a small windmill and be energy independant. I've tried talking the old man into it but no dice. I haven't done the exact calculations latley but with the coming energy price increases its win win for what the symstems are worth now IMO. My workplace just put up 48 175w panels, cool to see 10000 watts going through the inverter. With the current subsidy from the gov I think the payback is like five years for them. Couple other guys are up doing a 60 panel install. There is hope...lol

[EE_]

ee what about a room air for the night time would that work for you . i too was just thinking the same thing . i had to have air at night . at day time i dont need air because i am outside almost all day

My air runs all day in in the summer months, An emergency back up system for a window unit, refer, a couple lights and computer/TV would need 6 batteries ($1,200) and (8 ) 100 watt panels ($3,000) and a 5,000 watt inverter ($400) plus accessories
Remember, the time you need the power most is when the sun is out and charging batteries.

[zap]

"You have full flexibility in what you want to pay on a monthly basis," says SolarCity CEO Lyndon Rive, noting homeowners are charged only for the electricity the company's solar panels generate at or below market rates. If the panels produce more than what the home uses, the consumer gets a credit. "It's actually a win-win," Rive says.

You aren't going to get a credit ^ I wouldn't do it !

When we first started ours it was tiny and expensive for us, like ximmy said 1 panel at a time, this last system we actually had some money to buy everything we needed, 14- 180watt panels @ 620.00, a trace inverter $ 6000.00
Surrette batteries , I can't remember how much they cost but we ruined them.

Everything has come down in price, I added 6 more panels to the array a while back @ $ 562.00 each and bought a new trace/sw inverted for $ 3500.00 that was a great deal and nicer then the old one although it is still in the box, set new batteries 3- crown forklift batteries he had made for us at 1540 ah they were $ 7980.00, so I am hoping if I take care of the batteries this time they will last me 20 years?

We did all the work ourselves, except this last time I had to have somebody come set the batteries $ 200.00

@ EE when we built this place he thought about the heat, our perimeter walls are 8 " thick with R-30 in em the roof has a 13' attic and R-30 house is on a slab, and never gets over 78 even with 5 - 100 degree days in a row, but I know you are hotter where you are.

[EE_]

"You have full flexibility in what you want to pay on a monthly basis," says SolarCity CEO Lyndon Rive, noting homeowners are charged only for the electricity the company's solar panels generate at or below market rates. If the panels produce more than what the home uses, the consumer gets a credit. "It's actually a win-win," Rive says.

You aren't going to get a credit ^ I wouldn't do it !

When we first started ours it was tiny and expensive for us, like ximmy said 1 panel at a time, this last system we actually had some money to buy everything we needed, 14- 180watt panels @ 620.00, a trace inverter $ 6000.00
Surrette batteries , I can't remember how much they cost but we ruined them.

Everything has come down in price, I added 6 more panels to the array a while back @ $ 562.00 each and bought a new trace/sw inverted for $ 3500.00 that was a great deal and nicer then the old one although it is still in the box, set new batteries 3- crown forklift batteries he had made for us at 1540 ah they were $ 7980.00, so I am hoping if I take care of the batteries this time they will last me 20 years?

We did all the work ourselves, except this last time I had to have somebody come set the batteries $ 200.00

@ EE when we built this place he thought about the heat, our perimeter walls are 8 " thick with R-30 in em the roof has a 13' attic and R-30 house is on a slab, and never gets over 78 even with 5 - 100 degree days in a row, but I know you are hotter where you are.

You have a great set up! Your man was smart and thought of everything, God bless him!
I personally can't justify the upfront cost for full solar at this time, with all that is going down...I need emergency power.
So the lease deal sounds enticing. I just have to talk with them to see what the monthly cost will be exactly.
Otherwise, I'll have to go diesel or gas power generator.
Our grid will go down...it's just a matter of time.

[zap]

Yes it is expensive and we wouldn't have went solar if we'd had a choice, we didn't. There are no power lines anywhere close, so solar sucked for the first 10 years and generator power was always necessary, This last setup was costly but so far so good ! We'll see how long my batteries last.

( yep ;) I was a lucky girl)

[Neuro]

My biggest concern is when the power grid goes down...and I think it will eventually.
I must have AC in the summer!
I spoke with a couple solar companies and cost is substantial, close to $30,000.
If I didn't need to run central air, I'd probably give it a go with my own system. You need a whole roof full of solar panels and lots of batteries to do what I need.
Maybe where you live, you could survive with no air...so all you need is your refer, lights, TV and computer.
I think a 5,000 watt system will suit those needs
Damn EE, you are talking about SHTF, and then not surviving w/o AC... I am sure that it is hot where you live, but if you think like that I don't think you have much chance of surviving a SHTF situation. A water spray bottle could provide cooling for instance...

[big country]

My biggest concern is when the power grid goes down...and I think it will eventually.
I must have AC in the summer!
I spoke with a couple solar companies and cost is substantial, close to $30,000.
If I didn't need to run central air, I'd probably give it a go with my own system. You need a whole roof full of solar panels and lots of batteries to do what I need.
Maybe where you live, you could survive with no air...so all you need is your refer, lights, TV and computer.
I think a 5,000 watt system will suit those needs


is it dry where you live? Many places that I know that are HOT are also DRY. If so a swamp cooler probably takes less electricity (though I'm not sure). You could "survive" even 110 degrees without AC if you're in the shade and have water (inside). It won't be comfortable, but neither will ANYTHING else WTSHTF. During my 3 year stint in Phoenix, AZ many of the houses in older/poorer places had swamp coolers instead of AC...I assume that is because they are cheaper to run? Just something to look into if you're worried about it....

[Dogman]

is it dry where you live? Many places that I know that are HOT are also DRY. If so a swamp cooler probably takes less electricity (though I'm not sure). You could "survive" even 110 degrees without AC if you're in the shade and have water (inside). It won't be comfortable, but neither will ANYTHING else WTSHTF. During my 3 year stint in Phoenix, AZ many of the houses in older/poorer places had swamp coolers instead of AC...I assume that is because they are cheaper to run? Just something to look into if you're worried about it....

In low humidity areas swamp coolers work well , and the power consuption is not as high, only running a small pump and fan. Downside is the higher the humidity the more mold starts becoming a problem . In west texas swamp coolers were called air conditioning and you have "refrigerated air" if you had true air conditioning.