“Stay And Fight”: Is This Realistic?

[Ares]

Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man

“Stay and fight”: Is this realistic?

Before leaving New York, I was enjoying a perfectly nice afternoon yesterday walking around the Upper West side. When I got to Lincoln center, roughly at the corner of Broadway and W 62nd Street, reality set in.

No fewer than ten NYPD storm troopers were ‘patrolling’ the sidewalk outside in full combat gear: Kevlar helmet, flak vest, semi-automatic 9mm sidearm, and Colt model 933 with M900 foregrip and M68 aimpoint. A few of them had M203 variety grenade launchers fitting snugly underneath the barrel.

And to what did we owe the deployment of such unnecessary firepower? An invasion of the Canadian hordes? Terrorists on the loose? No. Some visiting politician… clearly an individual who feels important enough to merit an intimidating death squad in his vicinity.

This is the nature of the system. Police are armed to the teeth… and while their official marketing slogan may be to ‘keep people safe’, their real function is to be the protectors and enforcers for the political class, all while keeping the people in check so that the know who’s boss.

On this note, we received a lot of comments this week from readers who reject the idea of considering greener pastures overseas and instead choose to “stay and fight.”

Reader Jay K, for instance, wrote that “sooner or later you’re going to have to fight. It might as well be in your own home, city, neighborhood, and country.”

This ‘stay and fight’ mentality does seem incredibly noble. It invokes images of Paul Revere and the original patriots standing their ground in battle against the red coat British forces. Unfortunately, the world just doesn’t work that way anymore.

There is no real enemy to fight… no clearly defined opposing force conveniently dressed in a different color like the rival baseball team. The battle is one of ideas.

At its simplest, the conflict comes down between those who believe that government is the problem, and those who believe that government is the solution. Most people are brainwashed statists who unquestioningly hold the latter as their ethos.

And then there is the big faceless void of government itself… politicians, bureaucrats, low-level workers, regulatory agencies, etc. We’re not talking about a single individual here, but an entire institution.

It begs the question– for all the ‘stay and fight’ people, who exactly are you fighting? And more importantly, how?

Of all the hundreds of similar notes we’ve received from people who claim they are going to ‘stay and fight’, I am still waiting for one… just one single email… from someone telling me exactly how they plan on doing that.

Are you going to go to the polls and kick the bums out? Go right ahead. If you can convince the majority of other voters (most of whom probably don’t share your ideology), then you’re just going to vote in another set of bums.

Politicians are politicians because they either (a) are attracted to power, and/or (b) think that government is the solution, not the problem. Replacing one set with another is hardly a credible course of action.

What else is the plan– armed conflict in the streets? I don’t understand this fantasy. The people are going to arm themselves and join together for an Old West style shootout against the police, the people will win, and then a new nation will be rebuilt espousing limited government principles?

It sounds like a great movie… but pinning your hopes on being able to win a revolutionary style victory against a military police state that has superior tactics, firepower, and combat experience is simply unrealistic.

Besides, real turmoil in the west is just getting started. Right now the conflict is in Greece and Spain. It will spread to Italy, Belgium, UK, etc., and then finally to the US.

When it does, people will find out first hand that the police have absolutely no problems turning into violent thugs… and this police state grows stronger every day.

Truthfully, there is no way to fight a faceless enemy. The government is essentially the same as your credit card company– no single individual or front, just a collection of various departments and bureaucracies.

What do you do when your credit card company raises your fees, takes your money, provides you with poor service? Do you petition for change? Do you try and convince fellow credit card holders to demand new management? Do you stalk the customer service center in Sioux City, Iowa? No, of course not. You simply get a new card.

This is ultimately the solution that I’m advocating, and I’m here to tell you that there are a lot of great cards out there in the world.

If you recognize that the trend is bad, at least have a plan to safeguard yourself, your family, your livelihood, and your assets… something that extends beyond the unrealistic (voting the bums out) and the mythical (doing battle in the streets).

It’s time to reject bombastic fantasies and check in to reality. Make a grounded appraisal of the situation, and if you decide to stick around, great. Just make sure you have strong safeguards in place, a plan to execute if you ever deem it necessary, and most of all, a clear idea of your breaking point.

After all, the boiling frog only survives when it senses danger and jumps out.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-%E2%80%9Cstay-and-fight%E2%80%9D-realistic

[Twisted Titan]

You are only good to your loved ones alive and able.....do what ever is prudent to keep those options at your disposal

[palani]

Fight or flight are two options. Another is to withhold consent.

[hoarder]

Jew telling us to run. There is nowhere to run from world government. The only way out is through them.

[Awoke]

Fight or flight are two options. Another is to withhold consent.

* Taze, taze *
* Palani twitches and sputters something about withholding consent *
* Taze, taze *

We all know that the police are nothing more than tax collecting thugs that are performing the strong-arm work for the NWO globalist enablers. When the shit goes down for real, your only option will be to fight if you're stuck in a metropolis.

This guy makes it sound impossible to actually fight the police forces, but he doesn't take into account that they would be severely outnumbered if even 10% of the people decided that "Enough is enough" and started to fight back. Once the fight started, a lot of people who are admitted statists would see how brutal the NWO pigs are, and notice that they have no loyalties other than to their own, and I believe you will see a lot of statists turn into NWO pig haters and join ranks with those who will not be subjected to NWO slavery.

When the shit goes down on a real, unmasked global level, there will be nowhere safe in the world to go, so his reader "Jay K" is totally correct in his initial statement, imo.

[Ponce]

And that is why I have given up in thinking that the American people will fight for what is theirs......me?.......at 71 I don't care to much of a danm so that I will fight for my property.......unless I am cought outside by surprised they will not enter my home at will.

First post of the day............good morning to one and all.

[Libertytree]

Moving is an option, if, you can do it with a clear conscious, I couldn't. Most folks don't have the means to relocate to some supposed safe haven either, if indeed it even exists. So, the only other option is to find a good as place as possible and stand your ground as best ya can.

[Book]

Jew telling us to run.



http://www.sovereignman.com/simon-black/

[ShortJohnSilver]

Deal is, even in the darkest days of WWII Germany, you had a 85% or so chance of living through to the end of the war. So if we figure 300 million in the USA, 30 million or more would have to die before we are having it as bad as WWII Germany era. Question is, if you move somewhere else can you avoid all that? Imagine moving from Germany to e.g. France ... you still would have been caught ...

[muffin]

We all know that the police are nothing more than tax collecting thugs that are performing the strong-arm work for the NWO globalist enablers. When the shit goes down for real, your only option will be to fight if you're stuck in a metropolis.

This guy makes it sound impossible to actually fight the police forces, but he doesn't take into account that they would be severely outnumbered if even 10% of the people decided that "Enough is enough" and started to fight back. Once the fight started, a lot of people who are admitted statists would see how brutal the NWO pigs are, and notice that they have no loyalties other than to their own, and I believe you will see a lot of statists turn into NWO pig haters and join ranks with those who will not be subjected to NWO slavery.

When the shit goes down on a real, unmasked global level, there will be nowhere safe in the world to go, so his reader "Jay K" is totally correct in his initial statement, imo.

You know, I've often wondered, what about the cops and military? I know quite a few friends and family that are LEO or military. Some, maybe even most, are actually human under all that "tough" exterior. What will they do when TSHTF? I would like to think that some would have the common sense to realise the corruptness of our government and politicians and the brainwashing they've had. And that HOPEFULLY they would come and fight on "our" side.

Am I being naive?

[palani]

* Taze, taze *
* Palani twitches and sputters something about withholding consent *
* Taze, taze *

When given ANY commercial presentment you have 72 hours to either turn down the offer or produce a counter-offer.

If you can't figure out how to be out of TAZER range in 3 days then you deserve the treatment. Actually you need to be fitted with a canvas overcoat with straps on the arms if you are a belligerent claimant of rights while "in range". When in range I am usually very agreeable. NUNC PRO TUNC I have lots more latitude to "negotiate".

[palani]

You know, I've often wondered, what about the cops and military?

You might find a more sympathetic ear if they don't have a lot of buddies standing around (or a supervisor). Policymen have quite a mob mentality when it comes to crowds and they don't like to appear soft in front of their buddies. They place quite a bit of emphasis on "controlling the situation". Don't be the situation they are trying to control.

Case in point is the kissing couple in Vancouver during the recent riots. Cops rolled right past them and didn't even bother to cite them for inappropriate behavior in a riot.

[Serpo]

inappropriate behavior in a riot hahaha good one palani ,what a riot......

[mrnhtbr2232]

* Taze, taze *
* Palani twitches and sputters something about withholding consent *
* Taze, taze *

We all know that the police are nothing more than tax collecting thugs that are performing the strong-arm work for the NWO globalist enablers. When the shit goes down for real, your only option will be to fight if you're stuck in a metropolis.

This guy makes it sound impossible to actually fight the police forces, but he doesn't take into account that they would be severely outnumbered if even 10% of the people decided that "Enough is enough" and started to fight back. Once the fight started, a lot of people who are admitted statists would see how brutal the NWO pigs are, and notice that they have no loyalties other than to their own, and I believe you will see a lot of statists turn into NWO pig haters and join ranks with those who will not be subjected to NWO slavery.

When the shit goes down on a real, unmasked global level, there will be nowhere safe in the world to go, so his reader "Jay K" is totally correct in his initial statement, imo.

I would modify this just a bit Awoke - check it out. The shit going down continues to be referred to by most people as "when" like it's going to be some kind of moment in time. The truth is the process is methodical and continuous - we are debating what is already all around us. Otherwise you're right on the money that no place will ultimately be "safe."

The question is what are the parallel dynamics at work. One one side you have honesty. It is the most powerful but under-represented force. On the other are the cops - they operate on orders the same way the military does and disconnected from service long ago. The race we are in is which measured degree of success will come first before we die - the complete police state or resistance in small doses long enough to stay one step ahead of the madness.

As to the thread starter: Stay or Fight. The problem with relocating is as things continue to get worse, the rules will change about American ex-pats and their liberties abroad. It may well develop into prohibitions and eventual arrest to travel without permission. While a person can be physically outside the U.S., I suspect the U.S. will be physically everywhere in the not too distant future to close the gap. Not as "America" per se, but certainly as the proxy used by third parties to keep stirring the pot.

I've traveled on two continents and unless you have a lot of money you may end up worse off in terms of making a life commitment. Culture shock is real, and the things we take for granted here and assume we can do without are a real eye opener when you end up in places where you can't find them. Plus, don't forget the police state is cruder but more ubiquitous in many places than even here. And, as Americans, we have a premium kidnap target on our backs in some places. No matter how you slice it, leaving is actually a bad idea if it is based on an assumption that one will always be able to control their affairs. Just something to think about.

[Uncle Salty]

Simon is a "look at me" douche bag. The only place to out run the NWO is some third world shit hole where they will eat some foreigner for breakfast.

His article is a bunch of contradictions cloaked in self aggrandizing "wisdom." Man up you pusswad, "Mr. Black."

[woodman]

I thought he expressed the situation very well.

"At its simplest, the conflict comes down between those who believe that government is the problem, and those who believe that government is the solution. Most people are brainwashed statists who unquestioningly hold the latter as their ethos."


The key fact in this statement is "most people". Until this changes, your countrymen, by and large are your enemy.

[Canadian-guerilla]

the almighty US military in Vietnam

the Evil Empire USSR in Afghanistan

in the end, they lost and the little guy won


and speaking for myself,
i don't think the little guy will be to happy to welcome back
anyone who " ran to a safe place " in times of trouble
i have no problem making a stragetic retreat when the situation calls for it
but not to the point of leaving the country
and then coming home, after the fighting is over
and expect to be welcomed by the ones who actually did the fighting

[Son-of-Liberty]

The police always seem to have overwhelming force and the upper hand because they always pick the time, place, and conditions of the engagement. Think about it. 3 am swat raid 10+ on one usually. By the time you wake up and figure out what the hell is going on you are looking down the barrel of a gun.

On top of that most of the victims of police violence are less inclined to use violence back. They do not have the legal protection of a badge and often are peaceful in their intentions.

If they were operating on an even playing field with their victims I doubt their results would be as stellar.

If we ever have a real SHTF the cops will likely run and hide.

[Ares]

The police always seem to have overwhelming force and the upper hand because they always pick the time, place, and conditions of the engagement. Think about it. 3 am swat raid 10+ on one usually. By the time you wake up and figure out what the hell is going on you are looking down the barrel of a gun.

On top of that most of the victims of police violence are less inclined to use violence back. They do not have the legal protection of a badge and often are peaceful in their intentions.

If they were operating on an even playing field with their victims I doubt their results would be as stellar.

If we ever have a real SHTF the cops will likely run and hide.

I agree, my neighbor is a cop. He's expressed as much that if things fall apart he'll hunker down with his family. He said no way in hell would he be caught driving around in a police car. He said he would just be a "bullet magnet" at that point.

[Tumbleweed]

I'm reading a book now about what happened in the Ukraine when the communists/Jews were collectivising the farms. The Ukrainian farmers were independant and able to feed themselves. They were happy and well fed in their village lives. I haven't read the whole book yet but with holding consent or going along to get along didn't work to well for them. Anyone who wouldn't do what the communist Jews wanted were starved, worked to death, beaten to death or shot.

I see similarities between what happened in the Ukraine with the farmers and what is happening today in the US with independant cattle ranchers. They are probably the most free and independant people left just like the Ukranian farmers were. They are under attack by Jew controled government and Jew controled corporations who want to take away their land and livestock then enslave them.

The book "Execution by Hunger" by Miron Dolot should be read by everyone here. The shit hit the fan in the Ukraine and it has hit the fan here but it's like a slow moving train. Alexander Solzhenitsyn has a lot to say about what happened there. His opinion at this link http://youtu.be/Qm6rbGwGKL0

Miron Dolot was a young boy at the time and he survived but a lot of his family didn't. Alexander Solznitsyn said they didn't fight because they were either too greedy or cowards.

I'd rather die fighting that be lead off to my death by Jews like some passive unresisting animal. If enough people are willing to fight they can stop it. Being passive will get you or you family killed or enslaved sooner or later.

[Awoke]

When given ANY commercial presentment you have 72 hours to either turn down the offer or produce a counter-offer.

If you can't figure out how to be out of TAZER range in 3 days then you deserve the treatment. Actually you need to be fitted with a canvas overcoat with straps on the arms if you are a belligerent claimant of rights while "in range". When in range I am usually very agreeable. NUNC PRO TUNC I have lots more latitude to "negotiate".

There you go again, assuming that the pigs are gong to follow the rules.
They don't. They are thugs. "Taze first, concoct defensive story later" is a realistic interpretation of the motto they operate by nowdays.

[gunDriller]

i think 'stay & fight' is a valid choice because you the lay of the land, probably much better than the jack-booted thugs.


paradoxically, at any time Jack-booted Thugs can threaten one's home - for example, the IRS could illegitimately decide to give you the "Joe Stack" treatment. so you might need to move quickly, and move to a safe place, a place where you can't be found, but where you can still function.

that might mean giving up a home that you own, and moving to a friend's home or a rental.


one of the main techniques that TPTB use to deal with un-cooperative citizens is, they try to "kill you with stress". that's what they do to whistle-blowers. "The Insider", about tobacco industry whistle-blower Jeffrey Ligand/Wigand, provides some good examples - they go after your financial lifelines, then they try to crank up the anxiety quotient using lawyers etc.

of course, once they go after your financial lifelines, you may then have a wife who is pleading with you to surrender & give in. that's what happened in the Ligand/Wigand case.

in the case of Valerie Plame, her marriage with Joe Wilson was strong enough that they fought the US government together.


i think "JOB #1" is to stay healthy & to have REAL GOOD stress-management techniques, because if you end up in the crosshairs of TPTB, your ability to manage the stress is part of the foundation of fighting back effectively, and winning/ living to fight another day.

[EE_]

i think "JOB #1" is to stay healthy & to have REAL GOOD stress-management techniques, because if you end up in the crosshairs of TPTB, your ability to manage the stress is part of the foundation of fighting back effectively, and winning/ living to fight another day.


Lot's of wisdom written here.

Probably good while you still have something to lose.
Once you have lost everything and there's nothing left, they should no longer be effective.
Prepare to ignore, resist, stand your ground and die. When they come for you, send as many to hell as you can.
The only other choice is to die cowering in the corner.

[letter_factory]

false dichotomy. there's stay and do nothing, stay and wait, stay and be passive aggressive...there's so many different ways of staying. If people think tehre's going to be another civil war here, I'll tell you straight up, ain't gonna happen. too many stupid people, too many cowards, too much mistrust amongst those who know, too many infiltrators, etc, etc.

[palani]

There you go again, assuming that the pigs are gong to follow the rules.
They don't. They are thugs. "Taze first, concoct defensive story later" is a realistic interpretation of the motto they operate by nowdays.

If you keep thinking about something, you will dream about it. If you talk too much, you will say the wrong thing. Don't be surprised if the poor of your country are abused, and injustice takes the place of justice. After all, the lower officials must do what the higher ones order them to do. If you love money and wealth, you will never be satisfied with what you have. Ecc 5

[iOWNme]

It sounds like a great movie… but pinning your hopes on being able to win a revolutionary style victory against a military police state that has superior tactics, firepower, and combat experience is simply unrealistic.


Has this guy read history?

It is ALWAYS a minority that tries to come to Authoritarian Power, and likewise, it is ALWAYS a minority that defeats them.

Did the founders run from their problems? NO
Did the founders advocate for violence to solve their problems? NO

They did the most honorable and courageous thing they could have done: They peacefully withdrew their consent.

Violence is only honorable when in the DEFENSE of one's Life, Liberty and Property. Something the founders understood 100%, and something our Police and Military have never been taught.

The people who choose to run from America are the people that put value on their life. I dont value my life, I VALUE MY RIGHTS.

I dont give a damn about my life. Life with no Rights is SLAVERY. And SLAVERY is the farming system that has been accepted by all nations on earth. America is the last stop for Liberty, and i choose to fight on the side of moral, truth, justice and spirituality.

I will not fight for a different piece of real estate, with the same Satanic principles.

Once this country falls, the rest of the world will follow down the planetary toilet.

[gunDriller]

Has this guy read history?

It is ALWAYS a minority that tries to come to Authoritarian Power, and likewise, it is ALWAYS a minority that defeats them.

Did the founders run from their problems? NO
Did the founders advocate for violence to solve their problems? NO

actually, i think the founders used violence where necessary.

i agree that it is often a minority who change history / cultural norms. whichever combination of forms of resistance is used, a minority "resists", and find out that they have the support of many of their neighbors.

[iOWNme]

actually, i think the founders used violence where necessary.


I agree, they used violence where necessary.

Which was in their home (Sovereign country), while Defending their Creator endowed Rights to Life, Liberty and Property.

There is not 1 founding father who advocated for Pro-active Offensive violence. NOT ONE. If i am wrong, please show me.


EDIT: Do any of us here honestly believe the founders cared about losing? That is what this article is really about. WTF is there to care about when if you dont fight, you lose!


Look here guys/gals - If we dont stay and fight, WE HAVE NO FUTURE. With EVERYTHING on the line, I cant think of a more noble cause for one to fight for. When we succomb to fear, we are already DEAD inside.

When the system uses fear, it is admitting it doesnt want us to fight.

The founders were facing the largest most advanced Military at the time. Im sure most of them realized there was a very good chance of losing. But the other option is a LOSE/LOSE situation, and they knew that as well.