What Would You Do If They Came For You?

[Buddha]

What would you do?

[Gaillo]

What would I do? I'd most likely die... after setting in motion a sequence of events that would GUARANTEE that several of them die first. All with a clear conscience and no remorse... I've done NOTHING that warrants them "coming for me", other than having a thirst for freedom and independence and a FERVENT desire that they simply LEAVE ME ALONE - a "favor" that I'm MORE than willing to return, should they ever change their nature. Alas, as history has proven time and time again, it's probably not to be. :(

What would YOU do, Buddha... Meditate? Or pull out Mr. Wesson? ;)

[iOWNme]

I will protect my family, property and life - from all who would UNLAWFULLY plunder them - by deadly force in needed.

Then hope and pray the Creator finds it in his plan to forgive me.

REMEMBER - Violence is only moral, just and honorable when used in DEFENSE of one's life, liberty and property.

[Dogman]

If I have done no wrong, I will try and take out as many as I can before they get me, and they will pay dearly for it. Plus if the system got so bad it came to that I would ether fight them or die trying, because at that point life is not worth living. Unless resisting to change that system.

[palani]

Counteroffer. "I agree to lay down my arms and surrender in exchange for world peace and forgiveness" and then do it before they have a chance to come up with a better offer (for them).

I expect they would chuckle at the "world peace" but choke on the "forgiveness" aka qualified immunity.

[Ponce]

my answer is the same as gaillo, americans wont fight for their country but i will fight for my property.

[madfranks]

Counteroffer. "I agree to lay down my arms and surrender in exchange for world peace and forgiveness" and then do it before they have a chance to come up with a better offer (for them).

I expect they would chuckle at the "world peace" but choke on the "forgiveness" aka qualified immunity.

Do you really think that would work? What if they didn't care about your counteroffer but you've already laid down your arms?

[General of Darkness]

I think the first thing I'd do is turn the sprinklers on em. :)

[palani]

Do you really think that would work? What if they didn't care about your counteroffer but you've already laid down your arms?

Work? I don't expect anything to work. I would intend to show that their behavior is what should be punished rather than give them a reason to punish my behavior.

If you make a counteroffer and perform as if that counteroffer has been accepted (even silently) then you expect the terms of the counteroffer to be honored as a contract. Even criminals have a code.

forgive ... The modern sense of "to give up desire or power to punish" is from use of the compound as a Germanic loan-translation of L. perdonare (cf. O.S. fargeban, Du. vergeven, Ger. vergeben, Goth. fragiban; see pardon). Related: Forgave; forgiven; forgiving.

[solid]

If you make a counteroffer and perform as if that counteroffer has been accepted (even silently) then you expect the terms of the counteroffer to be honored as a contract. Even criminals have a code..

Criminals don't have a code of honor though, they are concerned with taking as much as they can from others..at the least expense from themselves. I think what you need to do is make them think twice about taking from you. They will follow the pass of least resistance towards taking from the people who offer 'counteroffers' or any logic/reason.

[palani]

Criminals don't have a code of honor though, they are concerned with taking as much as they can from others..at the least expense from themselves. I think what you need to do is make them think twice about taking from you. They will follow the pass of least resistance towards taking from the people who offer 'counteroffers' or any logic/reason.

As long as there is separation of powers and the writ of habeus corpus is available along with recourse to a judicial system that is semi-competent my expectation is that you have a far greater chance of seeking redress of any grievance than if your only appearance is going to be on a slab in the morgue. Providing other corpses to keep you company in the morgue just provides justification for placing you there.

If a fighting stance is presented to you and you bring up your hands to defend yourself then a challenge has been issued and accepted. If a policyman says "do this or I am going to break every bone in your body" (a contract offer if ever there was one) the proper response is not to put up your hands to defend yourself but rather to counteroffer "are you threatening me?". After all threatening is a criminal violation that is punishable. This also presumes several witnesses to help establish facts later. If no witnesses then a conscience can be a valuable guide while holding a roll of nickels in one hand.

[mrnhtbr2232]

Palani - you are most wise in the law. But when the law breaks in with lethal force your writs will be worthless if they decide in a split second to shoot you. That is really the whole argument in a nutshell - sure it's great we have habeas corpus and the ability to seek redress, but meanwhile in the real world there is no second chance. Personally I'd prefer to maintain control of the situation for two reasons: first, because it is a matter of principle, and second because capitulating to force is never a good idea as history has shown. It does not have to be a gunfight - there are many options to neutralize immediate threats - some are even non-lethal. But relying on after-the-fact justice is a fool's game in these times. I respect you for maintaining law and order in your life, but some of us would rather deal with it on our own terms if it actually happens.

[Dogman]

As long as there is separation of powers and the writ of habeus corpus is available along with recourse to a judicial system that is semi-competent my expectation is that you have a far greater chance of seeking redress of any grievance than if your only appearance is going to be on a slab in the morgue. Providing other corpses to keep you company in the morgue just provides justification for placing you there.

If a fighting stance is presented to you and you bring up your hands to defend yourself then a challenge has been issued and accepted. If a policyman says "do this or I am going to break every bone in your body" (a contract offer if ever there was one) the proper response is not to put up your hands to defend yourself but rather to counteroffer "are you threatening me?". After all threatening is a criminal violation that is punishable. This also presumes several witnesses to help establish facts later. If no witnesses then a conscience can be a valuable guide while holding a roll of nickels in one hand.

Understand where you are coming from, in a perfect world everyone obeys the rules way.

But the world of law is not perfect in the way they operate. When they come for you it is using a sort of "Kill them all and let god sort them out later" mentality. Your counter offer may get you shot or treated in a not so genteelly way. They do not "think" they act, and do not fool your self, they will be watching your hands and eyes, you will be on the ground before you can use your roll.

Edited: to add word, thanks, P

[Spectrism]

You must be smart. I want you to think about VietNam. Every conventional operation kicked the VC asses. What did they do? They went underground. They used stealth. They extracted costs on every army that attacked them.

Do not engage in conventional war. You don't win by dying for the cause. Let them kick ass but you take names. Be smart. Don't try to win any wars. Be patient and be blameless- offering them no excuse to mess with you.

I used to be the type that would rush to help any LEO in trouble if I had the chance. I would always think the LEO was right. Now, I would not help any LEO in a fight that I knew nothing about. I might be taking the wrong side.

[gunDriller]

i would offer them coffee and Krispy Kremes ... and then i would use my Jedi mind skills to convince them that they came to my place for coffee and Krispy Kremes.

in Harry Potter, the spell is called "Confundo". or, "Obliviate".

it's not guaranteed, but it's worth a try !

[palani]

some of us would rather deal with it on our own terms if it actually happens.

If you are above the age of majority and possess the capacity to engage in contracts then you ALWAYS do so on your own terms. Some contracts are voidable (and avoidable). Other contracts possess a certain terminal quality best gently declined as quickly as possible. Whatever you believe the nature and cause of events to actually be a contract offer and contract acceptance are going to be present. Knowing this should help you in fashioning your terms.

[palani]

Understand where you are coming from, in a perfect everyone obeys the rules way. Perhaps studying the "perfect world" textbook solutions in advance before relying upon knee jerk reactions would make everyone happier in the end?

[solid]

If you are above the age of majority and possess the capacity to engage in contracts then you ALWAYS do so on your own terms. Some contracts are voidable (and avoidable). Other contracts possess a certain terminal quality best gently declined as quickly as possible. Whatever you believe the nature and cause of events to actually be a contract offer and contract acceptance are going to be present. Knowing this should help you in fashioning your terms.

Palani, I respect your knowledge on the law, but I don't think this is going to be a situation where you can sit folks down and discuss terms over a cup of tea...

When you suggested accepting a challenge by putting your fists up..there is a time and a place for that. When folks come to take yours and those you care for, it's not about accepting a challenge. It's about fighting for your right to freedom and those you care about.

If you can rationalise with folks trying to take from you, great. Be prepared though to have to defend what's yours. I think the defending is what needs to be focused more on though.

[palani]

Be prepared though to have to defend what's yours.

I absolutely agree. But then it might surprise you to find out that what you consider to be YOURS that you are prepared to defend to the death is actually viewed by the state to be THEIRS. You are left with an equitable right to use a thing as long as the superior claim of the state is not raised.

The above is a fundamental principle of the 10 planks ... there is no private property ... kindly don't shoot the messenger.... I am merely reporting the situation as it currently stands.

A few months back Adask had a gal called Donna Barat on his shortwave program. Seems a few years back she decided that her involvement with the mortgage loan system was fubar and she stopped making payments. It took them several years to boot her out of her home. The way it happened was ... she was home, opened her door and found a notice to vacate on it. The deputy had not bothered to knock or ring the bell. Being placed upon notice in this manner she called the clerk of court and was given the legal advice to ignore it, that the notice to vacate had not been served. Lo and behold 72 hours later she found the first notice removed and a second notice hung by the door. She ignored that one as well and 30 days later a 6 man team consisting of swat, deputy sheriffs and homeland security showed up and threw her and her belongings out on the street.

What she gained from this experience? After much thought she came to the conclusion that the first notice was to the OWNER of the house in possession. The first notice was for 72 hours. The next notice was to the TENANT ... a notice to evict from the landlord. As the OWNER did not respond to the first notice and the TENANT did not respond to the second law enforcement was merely obeying an order of the court.

So in summary you own less than you think you own. If you are prepared to argue about it when you are CLEARLY in the wrong then force will be used to correct you. For myself, being a non-communist and firm believer in both the 10 commandments and private property, I have a short list of things I actually own and would care to protect. Other things in which I have use but not usufruct I care less about.

[LuckyStrike]

Totally depends on the situation.

On one hand, I've done nothing wrong but neither has Edgar Steele. So I could try and fight using their system, possibly win or possibly spend life in prison for a crime I didn't commit.

But it's not like they are going to tell you "ok Lucky we are framing you for some heinous crime, you can surrender or come out guns blazing" in reality you will have no clue how massive it is if they are going to frame you when they first take you in. They might at first say "you are under arrest for (insert minor charge here)" so you surrender thinking surely since you are innocent you can talk to the right person and they will sort it out and you will be on your way within the hour, but then you get downtown and the start piling more and more charges on. Remember you are playing by their rules the cops, the judges and the politicians all have the same employer.


So for me it totally depends on the situation and on a multitude of factors so great that unless you narrowed down the question (a lot) I can't even begin to answer since it ranges from gunfight, to flight, to going to court.

[chad]

i would become the grey man.

[solid]

So in summary you own less than you think you own. If you are prepared to argue about it when you are CLEARLY in the wrong then force will be used to correct you.

I guess that's my point. I'm not going to argue about anything, anything they can TAKE is not mine to begin with.

We only own it, when we hold it, right? I really think it comes down to that simple statement, the bread and butter of ownership.

You own it until you allow another man to take it from you. Bottom line.

I think we're preparing ourselves to not allow that to happen though...

[palani]

Possession is, as it were, the position of the foot.

If I reposition my foot then I have changed my possession.

[Awoke]

I think the first thing I'd do is turn the sprinklers on em. :)

The hollowpoint-sprinklers?

[mick silver]

You must be smart. I want you to think about VietNam. Every conventional operation kicked the VC asses. What did they do? They went underground. They used stealth. They extracted costs on every army that attacked them.

Do not engage in conventional war. You don't win by dying for the cause. Let them kick ass but you take names. Be smart. Don't try to win any wars. Be patient and be blameless- offering them no excuse to mess with you.

I used to be the type that would rush to help any LEO in trouble if I had the chance. I would always think the LEO was right. Now, I would not help any LEO in a fight that I knew nothing about. I might be taking the wrong side.

i was going to say about the same thing . i just hope i can make it to my cave ........ what gos around comes around

[gunDriller]

how about a cloud or mist of Fentanyl in the foyer ?

... you need to have a sealed foyer to attempt this.

Fentanyl vapor is what the Russian military tried at the Siege of Beslan. a hostage situation, they somehow injected Fentanyl into the air. i don't know if it was tear-gas or via the heating/ventilating ducts.

Fentanyl = vapor form of opium.

it has a similar effect as injecting heroin on the subject. one of the side effects is diminished breathing. one of the medical concerns about giving it to a patient is that it can stop their breathing.

in the case of the hostages at Beslan, many got too much, and died. but, painlessly.

in the case of unlawful trespassers, if they are stuck in a foyer with a cloud of Fentanyl, they transition to a state of inanimate protoplasm.

this is the stage at which you check for implants, to verify that they are a suitable feedstock for the compost pile.

Trespassers will be Composted.

[mick silver]

were do you get Fentanyl

[General of Darkness]

The hollowpoint-sprinklers?

Nope, just the lawn sprinklers. I'd think that water in their face etc would make for a great distraction, buy me some time to call in an air strike.

[still afloat]

"Its better to die on your feet than to live on your knees."
Emiliano Zapata

[MNeagle]

who are "They"?

[praetorian]

My first response would be to surrender.

Now if they were there to kill me, not just arrest me, probably use the flight option.

You cannot singularly resist,and be successful. Im no martyr.

[Awoke]

That's a great Avatar, Praetorian!

[Spectrism]

There are many factors to consider. If good people start disappearing or having accidents, then it is time to become a hunter and hunt the hunters. When there is peace and lawful government, be at peace and lawful. When there are bad people seeking to destroy peace and lawfulness, be ready to defend. The unlawfulness of government is being condoned by the majority of the people. They need to feel the oppression before change will be desired. Be ready. Observe. Be cool.

When idiots get the good ole police beat-down, be glad. They are being educated. Let the morons get educated and keep yourself blameless.

[Buddha]

I will brandish my copy of Blacks Law Dictionary to keep the thugs away.

J/K LOL I'll just team up with my roommate, Mr. Smith Wesson.

[Dogman]

I will brandish my copy of Blacks Law Dictionary to keep the thugs away.

J/K LOL I'll just team up with my roommate, Mr. Smith Wesson.

Would that act like garlic?

[chad]

I will brandish my copy of Blacks Law Dictionary to keep the thugs away.

J/K LOL I'll just team up with my roommate, Mr. Smith Wesson.

price. fucking. less.

[Buddha]

Would that act like garlic?

No. It would be similar to this, except with a book.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0xB8niA4Jk

[solid]

No. It would be similar to this, except with a book.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0xB8niA4Jk

That seems like a lot of work.

I like to prefer a charging bear tactic...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-AVr7gNmrU

[Buddha]

That seems like a lot of work.

I like to prefer a charging bear tactic...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-AVr7gNmrU
Damn nice shooting. The Blacks Dictionary however is an ancient weapon. About 100 years ago in a previous incarnation, I used it defend my family against a band of Cossacks during the Russian revolution. I was able to incapacitate all but one, there were five in total. I however picked off the remaining coward as he fled to his steed with my Mosin Nagant. My family had brilliant meals of long pork for weeks to come, as it was winter and food was scarce.

[solid]

Damn nice shooting. The Blacks Dictionary however is an ancient weapon. About 100 years ago in a previous incarnation, I used it defend my family against a band of Cossacks during the Russian revolution. I was able to incapacitate all but one, there were five in total. I however picked off the remaining coward as he fled to his steed with my Mosin Nagant. My family had brilliant meals of long pork for weeks to come, as it was winter and food was scarce.

I wish I could say that shooting was me, but it is not. Be very careful with your Black's Dictionary defense strategy. It is indeed an effective weapon. I recall reading about the Black's Law Massacre of 1843, a whole tribe was wiped out. Those are the ones that to this day give us the evil eye, they will forever know the truth. We actually had the nerve to send them bad meat after that, they will never forgive us.

[Dogman]

I also feel that history has it wrong in some cases.

Example:
U.S. General 'Black Jack' Pershing rid the Philippines of Islamic extremism in 1911, executing a group of Muslim terrorists and burying them in a grave filled with pig's blood and entrails!



No, What he really used was a copy of " THE BLACKS LAW DICTIONARY" one sight of THE BOOK , the insurgents renounced their faith and vowed to devote their life's to meditation and staring at their navels, in the name of peace.

[osoab]

Nope, just the lawn sprinklers. I'd think that water in their face etc would make for a great distraction, buy me some time to call in an air strike.


Hook your gas lines to the lawn sprinklers. If you are going down, make it make it a blaze of glory. ;D
(I personally do not own lawn sprinklers and read this idea in a story about SHTF)

[Mouse]

I don't normally write country songs, but I was plunking around with a riff and this came out on the word side. Maybe I can glue up the guitar parts to it and try to get my boys to put it to backing. I was plunking along and came upon a country style riff and thought about this thread and wrote this lyrics. Critics are fine but please don't be too mean :)

Get a warrant

I got’s a 12 on the floor
45 in the drawer
If that ain’t gonna stop you
Then I got me some more

You better get your head right
If you’re coming tonight
Get them papers from the judge
Or you’re in for a fight

I’m sick of taking your taxation
Without representation
While you destroy everything
That was good in this nation

You all can get out of town
Don’t be caught hangin around
Ain’t nobody here that cares
To cut your corpses down

Chorus

You better get out the door
See ya later 10-4
Come back with a warrant
If you think you can score
The judge is too busy with the village whore
To worry about signing things
And that’s for sure

You better get out the door
See ya later 10-4
Get off my property like the sign says
You’s ins is a Trespasser

Bridge

Well I got me a place and I’m doing it right
Don’t think I broke a single law tonight
If you policy agents can’t understand that
I guess you and me are going to have a spat
Well imagine that
Well imagine that

I got’s a 12 on the floor
45 in the drawer
If that ain’t gonna stop you
Then I got me some more

You better get your head right
If you’re coming tonight
Get them papers from the judge
Or you’re in for a fight

I know how much you all trained
To get your minds ingrained
That the people are the enemy
And they must be restrained

You got tanks and cameras
Ready to start a world war
To taze and kill old ladies
And to beat down the poor

Chorus

You better get out the door
See ya later 10-4
Come back with a warrant
If you think you can score
The judge is too busy with the village whore
To worry about signing things
And that’s for sure

You better get out the door
See ya later 10-4
Get off my property like the sign says
Yous’ins is a Trespasser

Outtro – spoken

“well here in booger county we got a saying, if you’re wearing black, don’t let the sun set upon your back. Used to be racist, but now it is fascist. If we see you around here, dressed in black, you will be wishing for the hanging branch. It ain’t easy for tyrants and their tools around here. Don’t be no fool policy enforcer. You are gonna be hanging out for some time with us. Yes, sir, we will comply with our policy. Our policy. Our policy. Our policy. “

You better get out the door
See ya later 10-4
Get off my property like the sign says
Yous’ins is a Trespasser

Copyright 2011 all rights reserved.

[Awoke]

I can see this "Black Law Dictionary" thing competing with the "Three wolves One moon shirt" thing.

If you're not familiar with the "Three wolves One Moon shirt" thing, click here and read the reviews:
Link to reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Three-Wolf-Short-Sleeve/product-reviews/B002HJ377A/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending)

If the link doesn't work, go to Amazon.com and search "3 wolf moon", scroll to bottom, and select "See all 1,973 customer reviews"

It's worth the effort.

[JDRock]

i would first donate my stash of the most precious metal ; LEAD.

[Awoke]

I was plunking along and came upon a country style riff and thought about this thread and wrote this lyrics. Critics are fine but please don't be too mean :)



You really wrote that? Good job man.

[Mouse]

Thanks Awoke. I wrote that all by myself :)

"Little Stevie Vai is going to play a composition on the guitar. He wrote it all by himself"

"This is a song I wrote. It's about peace and love and good happiness stuff"

"It's getting too loud! Boys! It's getting too loud!"

[gunDriller]

this is where it's helpful to have an army of trained skunks.

[cortez]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQoq-wqZxg

[gunDriller]

yesterday i waatched a neighbor work on an old car that needed a brake caliper replaced.

he took off the wheel & there was this beautiful HUGE black widow.

black widow blow gun ? just don't inhale ! ... or at least put a screen on the side you blow on.

the tough part is convincing the black widow to go in the tube. everything else is easy.

[Book]

My first response would be to surrender.

Now if they were there to kill me, not just arrest me, probably use the flight option.

You cannot singularly resist,and be successful. Im no martyr.



::) .....