Looks like a cancer to me

[midnight rambler]

http://projects.flowingdata.com/walmart/

[Glass]

It does doesn't it. I had the thought "how can the US support so many of these stores?".

The answer of course is that she can't. You could probably time the expansion of that company in some areas with the start of the decline of the local economy.

[palani]

It's for the children, you know

http://www.waltonfamilyfoundation.org/

[Dogman]

Wall mart and shopping malls, have done more to put most if not all mom and pop, small to large stores out of business, and kill the down town's, and close shops and stores across this country ,in small to large towns and city's than any other reason.

The loss of jobs I do not think can be counted, because of wall mart, and their demanding cheap prices from suppliers, that have forced company's to move production offshore and or close plants in this country.

Are they a cancer , Yes!

[MNeagle]

Largest company in the WORLD.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global500/2011/snapshots/2255.html?source=cnn_bin&hpt=hp_bn3

[Dogman]

I don't shop at ChinaMart

Stopped going to any of their stores, years ago, once I realized what they were doing to local businesses.

[madfranks]

Let me take the contrarian point of view for this one. Walmart isn't doing anything wrong by responding to consumer desire for cheap prices for pretty much everything you can buy. Walmart doesn't force anyone to shop at their stores, you know, they operate through voluntary cooperation. If people stopped shopping there, they'd go out of business immediately. As far as "demanding" cheap prices from suppliers, if someone else would pay the suppliers more money don't you think they'd sell it to them instead of Walmart? And cheap prices isn't something to complain about, that's one thing that's helping people retain their status as middle class while the gov't continues to push them down through taxes and inflation. And cheap prices are much better than the alternative of high prices, isn't it? Every socialist dictator the world has ever seen has promised it's people cheap and plentiful goods, but so far only Walmart seems to be able to deliver. Yes, they benefit from subsidies of one sort or another and play the laws and regulations to their favor as best they can, but why wouldn't they? It's in their best interest to do so, and most of us would do the same thing. I think true free enterprise would be better, but don't get angry with Walmart's ability to provide customers with what they want. As far as moving production offshore to capitalize on cheaper production costs elsewhere, again, that's more of an effect of decades of gov't policies which artificially make it more expensive here than elsewhere.

[Ponce]

Sure, but will they, at the end, screw the customers when they are last man standing?

[letter_factory]

I wonder how much of that is pure supply and demand or altered public perception of demand. If banks loan wmt a ton of money to expand and allow wmt to artificially lower prices, consumers, being herd animals, will automatically go to wmt, and other consumers seeing wmt have so many people will automatically go there. So whereas a mom and pop shop would go bankrupt growing so fast and lowering prices so low, banks loans enable wmt to survive until it kills competition, and once that's killed, raise prices.

[madfranks]

There's no doubt that Walmart takes advantage of the system to it's favor, but rather than be upset with Walmart I get upset with the government and monetary policies that encourage all of this all happen. If we lived in an unhampered market economy, would you still be upset when Walmart out-competes the mom & pop shops by offering more products for less money?

[Uncle Salty]

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[Horn]

And that's just the U.S. map.

First pro-western post of the day!!

http://www.benjaminedwards.net/Writings/walmart%20map.jpg

[Dogman]

And that's just the U.S. map.

First pro-western post of the day!!

http://www.benjaminedwards.net/Writings/walmart%20map.jpg

A ponce in training? 234

[gunDriller]

florida walmart
a great value hurricane
walmart corexit.

[mrnhtbr2232]

Let me take the contrarian point of view for this one. Walmart isn't doing anything wrong by responding to consumer desire for cheap prices for pretty much everything you can buy.

The consumer's "desire" is a weakness created by marketing. Most people could live just fine without all their plastic dreck that the boob tube and newspaper circulars tells them they need and can get at the best price. Low self-esteem is one of the leading forces behind shopping for non-essential goods.


Walmart doesn't force anyone to shop at their stores, you know, they operate through voluntary cooperation. If people stopped shopping there, they'd go out of business immediately.

Take a trip to any small town where Walmart has destroyed local businesses. Without competition, people have no choice.


And cheap prices are much better than the alternative of high prices, isn't it?

If I could buy an American-made product that was high quality and it cost more I would. Perhaps that is a sentimental approach vs. an economic one, but it's the whole "cheap is best" mantra that destroys quality and craftsmanship. I'd rather have one well made tool I can rely on than five Chinese pot metal ones that shatter the first time you use them.

[Eyebone]

Let me take the contrarian point of view for this one. Walmart isn't doing anything wrong by responding to consumer desire for cheap prices for pretty much everything you can buy. Walmart doesn't force anyone to shop at their stores, you know, they operate through voluntary cooperation. If people stopped shopping there, they'd go out of business immediately. As far as "demanding" cheap prices from suppliers, if someone else would pay the suppliers more money don't you think they'd sell it to them instead of Walmart? And cheap prices isn't something to complain about, that's one thing that's helping people retain their status as middle class while the gov't continues to push them down through taxes and inflation. And cheap prices are much better than the alternative of high prices, isn't it? Every socialist dictator the world has ever seen has promised it's people cheap and plentiful goods, but so far only Walmart seems to be able to deliver. Yes, they benefit from subsidies of one sort or another and play the laws and regulations to their favor as best they can, but why wouldn't they? It's in their best interest to do so, and most of us would do the same thing. I think true free enterprise would be better, but don't get angry with Walmart's ability to provide customers with what they want. As far as moving production offshore to capitalize on cheaper production costs elsewhere, again, that's more of an effect of decades of gov't policies which artificially make it more expensive here than elsewhere.

Are they or are they not the Chinese government outlet store?

Are they not a necessary link in the destruction of American manufacturing?

[Neuro]

Are they or are they not the Chinese government outlet store?

Are they not a necessary link in the destruction of American manufacturing?
No, I would say they are not... A good quality american product would sell at a reasonable price whether walmart existed or not, if the American consumer existed that wanted such a product, they don't.

[Eyebone]

No, I would say they are not... A good quality American product would sell at a reasonable price whether walmart existed or not, if the American consumer existed that wanted such a product, they don't.

But, their venue for selling that product is destroyed by wallmart.

We see the end result of government education in the lack of appreciation for quality and the quick gratification of a perceived need.

Short sighted.

I knew this would happen the first time I saw "Americans" pushing Japanese cars.

See?, nothing is improved, we are weaker for it.

Such a hurt is coming.

[solid]

Take a trip to any small town where Walmart has destroyed local businesses. Without competition, people have no choice. .

Well, there was competition until people shopped at Walmart instead of the local shops. The people had a choice, they chose Walmart. Then, afterwards, they don't have a choice. They just have Walmart.

When Walmart opens up a new store, the prices for everything initially are so low the store is a loss financially. IE, they will actually sell products for less than cost. Walmart has patience though, once all the local competition is gone, they raise their prices back up. They are a consumer drug dealer to a consumer crack addict.

This would not happen if people would BOYCOTT WALMART! If there's one thing in this world that can actually raise my blood pressure, it's Walmart.

Boycott Walmart. Each man and woman does count here.

[solid]

I'm sorry, it makes me mad. I'm angry. How we allowed Walmart to rape and pillage our country. They offered greed and we accepted that contract. I believe, that's the mark of the beast.

My two bits. I'll shut up, and keep my opinions to myself now. To hell with Walmart.

[Joe King]

I'm sorry, it makes me mad. I'm angry. How we allowed Walmart to rape and pillage our country. They offered greed and we accepted that contract. I believe, that's the mark of the beast.

My two bits. I'll shut up, and keep my opinions to myself now. To hell with Walmart.

It's only human nature for people to put their own self interests first.

After all, no one wants to tell all their friends how much more they paid than others did for the same product or service. It makes them feel like a chump.

[LuckyStrike]

After Wal-Mart backed the Usurpers healthcare plan (http://www.truthinourtime.com/2009/07/wal-mart-backs-obama-healthplan.html)(undoubtedly to keep the barriers of entry high), I promised to never defend them again and I won't.

I will however defend Sam Walton and his vision.

When Walton first opened his store it was in an era when Penny's and other department stores routinely marked up prices 75%, Sam's idea was to sell goods for only a few percent over cost and make up for it in volume of sales. This business model has been replicated 1000's of times and we now take it for granted having saved billions of dollars over the years. As for driving mom and pops out of business this is simply a case of failure to analyse the entire situation. If you look at a town before and after Wal-Mart sure you may see some mom and pops go out of business (depending on what they sell) and simply conclude as many do that Wal-Mart hurts the little guy. You do not typically see the people though who invent and create items to be sold in Wal-Mart, any joe off the street can come up with a product and pitch it to Wal-Mart, if they decide to sell it, guess what, instant millionaire. That goes on behind the scenes, but it still goes on. When Wal-Mart places an order, even from huge companies like Johnson and Johnson, it is their largest order by far, which means that to a large degree Wal-Mart dictates the price, so not only does Wal-Mart run on only a few percent profit margin, they basically mandate that J&J do the same, so the consumer wins twice. It is sad to note that the government makes more in sales tax in most cases than Wal-Mart itself does.

Feeling sorry for the mom and pops is a natural emotion, I'd personally rather buy things from the independent guys even if it costs a little more provided the service is good. This is a natural emotion, but it is just that an emotion. I could sit around moping about the buggie whip makers to, but as a whole for society it makes no sense to abandon cars.

90% of the negativity I have heard about Wal-Mart is nothing more than regurgitated propaganda put out by the marxist labor unions. They absolutely loathe Wal-Mart, the largest employer outside the government, a hugely successful company which also happens to be staunchly anti union. So they do like any marxist organization and demonize Wal-Mart at every opportunity.

Here is the bottom line, Wal-Mart has created far more jobs and wealth than it has destroyed, it is not Wal-Mart who has driven manufacturing overseas that blame lies with the marxist labor unions and the government who not only stifles private sector growth but also erodes purchasing power so that the only goods many people can afford are the cheapest imports from overseas.

This is not a defense of Wal-Mart, which in my area more closely resemble leper colonies than retail stores, but rather an attempt to place the blame where it lies, with marxists.

[solid]

Here is the bottom line, Wal-Mart has created far more jobs and wealth than it has destroyed, it is not Wal-Mart who has driven manufacturing overseas that blame lies with the marxist labor unions and the government who not only stifles private sector growth but also erodes purchasing power so that the only goods many people can afford are the cheapest imports from overseas..

Let's talk about the bottom line then. Walmart may have created jobs....minimum wage crap jobs. Jobs that can't support a family. More wealth than it destroyed? Nobody is complaining about the wealth destroyed....we're pissed at the family run business Walmart destroyed.

That's not wealth, that's the bread and butter of our damn country destroyed!

Crap from China is going to come into our country because of demand for it. Walmart is the "dealer" of that demand. Do you blame the drug user, or the drug dealer? or both?

The problem is RIGHT in front of our faces, yet we refuse to see it.

[LuckyStrike]

Let's talk about the bottom line then. Walmart may have created jobs....minimum wage crap jobs. Jobs that can't support a family. More wealth than it destroyed? Nobody is complaining about the wealth destroyed....we're pissed at the family run business Walmart destroyed.

That's not wealth, that's the bread and butter of our damn country destroyed!

Crap from China is going to come into our country because of demand for it. Walmart is the "dealer" of that demand. Do you blame the drug user, or the drug dealer? or both?

The problem is RIGHT in front of our faces, yet we refuse to see it.


So do you contend that Wal-Mart has had an unfair advantage in the free market?

I contend that they are the most successful mom and pop shop of all time, starting from one store and growing.

I see it one of three ways.

1) Wal-Mart had an unfair advantage which allowed it to grow faster than it's competitors.
2) Wal-Mart did not have an unfair advantage thrived but has grown so big that the government should reign in the free market success story since their should be a limit to how big a private company can become.
3) Wal-Mart filled a niche, provided a service which people use by the millions everyday.


As to the job destruction argument.

You assert that Wal-Mart creates minimum wage jobs, but this point is only important if the job it destroyed was more than minimum wage which other than mom and pop I doubt the workers in their stores make any more than minimum wage anyway. I can't think of any examples to the contrary.

Of course the small business owners make more than minimum wage, and going off this scenario (which I find to be a stretch frankly) so their jobs will be axed, maybe 10-15 people in a smaller size town who really make any kind of decent money. I have already provided the example of the thousands of people who have become instant millionaires by marketing their product to sell at Wal-Mart so some people lose, some gain, but in reality the net is still a benefit.

As to the drug dealer question, I blame the importer and the user. Take actual drugs for example, if illegal drugs were not in this country the point would be moot so thanks to the CIA we have copius amounts of them (not to mention pharmaceutical companies) so they take the brunt of the blame, second the user, if they didn't want drugs the drug dealers would do something else. I don't go out and buy drugs even though I could find dealers with no problem, I don't want it and I don't buy it.

It frustrates me that everything is made in china but ask yourself why things are made in China. For one thing they are less restrictive on business and encourage factories. "but we can't compete with the pay" this is true, but why do we need to pay American factory workers 10x more? Inflation and taxation. If we didn't give 50% of everything we earn to the government we could have the same standard of living while being paid half the money. Another reason is marxist labor unions, not only do they drive up workers pay to unsustainable levels they also create an enviroment where the worker becomes lazy, he can't get fired, he's a union worker. I know several people in various unions one of them says verbatim "I don't have to do shit I'm in a union" so productivity heads to the shitter.

You get the government and the jewish central bank out of the way and manufacturing will be reborn regardless of what Wal-Mart does.

[LuckyStrike]

That's not wealth, that's the bread and butter of our damn country destroyed!



Can you give me some examples of mom and pop shops going under because of Wal-Mart? I'm not trying to be an ass but in rural florida there are Wal-Marts in small towns and there is also an abundance of mom and pop shops who incidentally also sell chinese crap.

[Joe King]

....family run business Walmart destroyed.
I have yet to see Wal-Mart hold a gun to anyones head in order to make them shop there. lol


That's not wealth, that's the bread and butter of our damn country destroyed!
You can thank your agents and their fellow cohorts for that.


Crap from China is going to come into our country because of demand for it. Walmart is the "dealer" of that demand. Do you blame the drug user, or the drug dealer? or both?
Solid, everybody tends to just want the best price for whatever it is they buy. If it's provided to them, they usually to take it.
I saw in that other thread the sweet solar distillar you bought. It's really nice. I need to get me one. But when I do, I don't think that I'd want to pay $50 more for the same thing just because a guy down the street sold it to me. Would you have?



The problem is RIGHT in front of our faces, yet we refuse to see it.
The problem is that our agents write laws that encourage the very type of thing you are complaining about as a means to help keep the monetary inflation they've allowed under their respective watches, due to their collective fiscal irresponsibility, from being readily and painfully apparent to all.

[solid]

Solid, everybody tends to just want the best price for whatever it is they buy. If it's provided to them, they usually to take it.
I saw in that other thread the sweet solar distillar you bought. It's really nice. I need to get me one. But when I do, I don't think that I'd want to pay $50 more for the same thing just because a guy down the street sold it to me. Would you have?
.

Actually I would pay $50 more, because that distiller is well-made and works well. The $50 less "walmart" version probably would not work as well, nor last as long.

See, that's the big problem. People don't realize they are actually getting a cheaper made product at Walmart. One example of this is Goodyear tires. Goodyear wanted Walmart to sell their tires. Walmart gave them a price that was so low, Goodyear could not even make the tires at that price. So...Goodyear made a cheaper "walmart" version of their tires to sell at Walmart only.

So, you buy your tires at Walmart. I buy them from the local guy. I pay a little more. I got a better tire than you did, more durable and lasts longer, even though you think you got the same tire.

From my understanding, there's lots of products that have special Walmart versions that are cheaper products.

For the record, I don't necessarily blame Walmart for it all. It's a free market, people can shop where they want. I just wish people would think a bit more when purchasing something than to only care about the price. I think it's more of a cultural problem across the board. People want a lot of stuff, quantity, rather than quality is what matters these days. When something breaks, toss it, and get another piece of crap at Walmart to replace it.

[solid]

Can you give me some examples of mom and pop shops going under because of Wal-Mart? I'm not trying to be an ass but in rural florida there are Wal-Marts in small towns and there is also an abundance of mom and pop shops who incidentally also sell chinese crap.

Off the hip, Merced, California. Take a walk down Main St. these days there.

Actually, the best example is Walmart's business plan. How they operate when opening up a new store. The plan is to crush all local businesses by offering extremely low prices in the beginning. Prices so low, that the new Walmart store actually sells products below cost just to crush the local businesses. Their plan is to actually lose money at the start. Then, once all the competition is gone, they raise prices back up to make that store profitable. That's their plan.

Seriously, check out some cities that have actually banned Walmart from going there. A couple of examples, Berkeley, CA and Alameda, CA. Both have great thriving downtowns that are packed full of people walking around going to the local shops. The local shops compete against each other, keeping prices in check, etc. It's a natural balance, a local economy that does actually quite well. You don't see the boarded up empty shops there like you do in the small towns that Walmart has gone too.

For the record, Sam Walton imo was actually a decent man. It's when his son took over the business that it went so corrupt. They actually took out life insurance policies on the old folks that worked there. Each time an old person died, they cashed in big time. The money from the insurance went straight to the company, not the families of the dead employee. Walmart got busted for that one. But, it shows how unethical big business can be.

[Dogman]

Off the hip, Merced, California. Take a walk down Main St. these days there.

Actually, the best example is Walmart's business plan. How they operate when opening up a new store. The plan is to crush all local businesses by offering extremely low prices in the beginning. Prices so low, that the new Walmart store actually sells products below cost just to crush the local businesses. Their plan is to actually lose money at the start. Then, once all the competition is gone, they raise prices back up to make that store profitable. That's their plan.

Seriously, check out some cities that have actually banned Walmart from going there. A couple of examples, Berkeley, CA and Alameda, CA. Both have great thriving downtowns that are packed full of people walking around going to the local shops. The local shops compete against each other, keeping prices in check, etc. It's a natural balance, a local economy that does actually quite well. You don't see the boarded up empty shops there like you do in the small towns that Walmart has gone too.

For the record, Sam Walton imo was actually a decent man. It's when his son took over the business that it went so corrupt. They actually took out life insurance policies on the old folks that worked there. Each time an old person died, they cashed in big time. The money from the insurance went straight to the company, not the families of the dead employee. Walmart got busted for that one. But, it shows how unethical big business can be.


Yes he was, and when he actively ran the business, it was not the monster it was to become.

Who here can remember when Walmart publicly tried to sell only American made? That was a big selling point in their ad's. I think things started changing when the family took control of the business, and made it into the monster it is now. In the early days walmart was very good to their employees , before it morphed into the business model it is using now.

[Joe King]

The last time I actually remember buying something at Wal-Mart that had "made in America" emblazened on the front of it, it was a piece of crap that wasn't even put together right. It was also made from plastic.
It was a mirror with a lamp in it that I had to take apart in order to connect one of the wires to the socket just so it would work as advertised.


...and Solid, I was asking if the item had been the same and the only reason it cost $50 more was to help the guy down the streets bottom line. Would you still pay more then?

Here's an example.
I see a particular brand of insect repellant at the local feed store for almost $9 and I also see the same exact product at a place like Lowes for just under $5. Walmart is also about the same price. Where would you buy?
...and just for the record, I shop at and buy things from the feed store quite often as it is. It's like a general store was 80 years ago and it's within walking distance from my front door. Wal-Mart hasn't run them out yet, and there are 3 of them within 4 miles of it.

[Agrippa]

I lived in a small town that had a Wal-Mart invasion. The day they opened their doors my cost of living went down very noticeably -- as did that of everyone else in town. A couple local shops closed down due to the competition. Many more sprang up to service the demand created by everyone having more money to spend. Within a year the number of old beater cars on the streets had declined dramatically: replaced by shiny new cars. For the masses Wal-Mart coming to town is a blessing. It is only the privileged classes who are threatened by it.

[Santa]

I lived in a small town that had a Wal-Mart invasion. The day they opened their doors my cost of living went down very noticeably -- as did that of everyone else in town. A couple local shops closed down due to the competition. Many more sprang up to service the demand created by everyone having more money to spend. Within a year the number of old beater cars on the streets had declined dramatically: replaced by shiny new cars. For the masses Wal-Mart coming to town is a blessing. It is only the privileged classes who are threatened by it.

GovCorp subsidizes Chinamart and all the big Box Global CrapStores at the expense of the working taxpayers.