Stealing A/C units and stuff!

[Dogman]

There has been an increasing amount of theft in this area, Far above the normal copper wire thefts that are fairly common, with the thief's sometimes frying them selfs on live wires.

The target's now are church air conditioners, in less than 2 weeks 14 churches or so have been hit. And the condensers removed. Plus a bunch being stolen from construction sites and unoccupied homes.

Stealing for the metal.

Wonder about other parts of the country/world?

[reststop]

Same here...stelaing from local churches.

reswt

[gunDriller]

i wonder what is the biggest metal heist in history. well, besides the political maneuvering that went into securing the rights to South Africa's gold.


i wonder what is the biggest non-government-sanctioned metal heist in history.

there was an incident at the Oregon Caves national park, where thieves took all the wiring for the lights. it cost the state of Oregon about $3 Million to replace them. I don't know what weight of copper was stolen.

there are some metal sculptures in San Francisco that I wonder when they'll be stolen.

there's about 2 bronze sculptures in front of City Hall, 1 ton +. i guess that's $3 or $4 a pound scrap value. that's got to be tempting some metal theft rings.

there's also a Russian Orthodox church at 25th & Geary - with a gold leaf roof. i think it's gold leaf.

would you like a roof tile for closer inspection ?

http://www.sfsobor.com/images/phocagallery/thumbs/phoca_thumb_l_exterior15.jpg

http://www.sfsobor.com/

[Twisted Titan]

the abilty to sell scrap metal with little procedure or protocol is about to be slammed shut for good

[Dogman]

the abilty to sell scrap metal with little procedure or protocol is about to be slammed shut for good


They are working on a bill now, to make it illegal to sell anything that can not be verified from where it comes from, copper ,aluminum and who you are and where you live, illegal. Trying to cut down on the theft.

It is that bad.

[zap]

They already do that here, Cal. Id and your picture taken with the load, then you have to come back in 3 days to get the check.

[Winston Smith]

http://www.newsweek.com/2008/05/19/rising-ripoffs.html

Rising Ripoffs

Thefts of manhole covers increase as metals prices soar

Three weeks ago 12-year-old Shamira Fingers from South Philadelphia was walking down a city street near her home when she suddenly fell into an open sewer hole. Frantic witnesses called 911, and rescue crews rushed to the scene, pulled her out and took her to Children's Hospital, where she was reportedly treated and released. Investigators say Fingers was very fortunate to escape serious injury or even death after falling six feet into an open manhole, the cover of which had been stolen. In the last year a staggering 600 manhole covers have been swiped by thieves in Philadelphia.
"We used to see a handful taken each year, but nothing like this," Martin McColl, inlet cleaning supervisor for the Philadelphia Water Department, tells NEWSWEEK. "We lost 12 of them just last night in the north Philadelphia area. I'm in absolute shock by what we've seen here over the past year."
Manhole thefts aren't exclusive to Philadelphia. Thousands of cast iron manhole covers in cities across the country have been pilfered in the past year. Chicago lost 200 in one month, with 40 reportedly taken in a single day. Seventy-five have been taken recently in Greensboro, N.C. More than 50 have been stolen in Long Beach, Calif., since January. And in Cherokee County, Ga., more than 30 have been taken in just the last two weeks.......more at link

[Dogman]

They already do that here, Cal. Id and your picture taken with the load, then you have to come back in 3 days to get the check.

From what I understand , the law here are starting to make unannounced visits to the scrap yards, looking for anything that remotely looks like metal from a/c units and copper/AL wire. Just to try and keep the yards honest.

[freespirit]

just to give you an idea of the prices, romex wire is going for $2.29/lb for scrap.

check for current prices on most scrap metals here...

http://www.scrapmonster.com/scrap-prices

[osoab]

Did they ever catch the guys that robbed the gold mine in South America? It was later in 2010 I think.

[vacuum]

http://www.newsweek.com/2008/05/19/rising-ripoffs.html

Rising Ripoffs

Thefts of manhole covers increase as metals prices soar

Three weeks ago 12-year-old Shamira Fingers from South Philadelphia was walking down a city street near her home when she suddenly fell into an open sewer hole. Frantic witnesses called 911, and rescue crews rushed to the scene, pulled her out and took her to Children's Hospital, where she was reportedly treated and released. Investigators say Fingers was very fortunate to escape serious injury or even death after falling six feet into an open manhole, the cover of which had been stolen. In the last year a staggering 600 manhole covers have been swiped by thieves in Philadelphia.
"We used to see a handful taken each year, but nothing like this," Martin McColl, inlet cleaning supervisor for the Philadelphia Water Department, tells NEWSWEEK. "We lost 12 of them just last night in the north Philadelphia area. I'm in absolute shock by what we've seen here over the past year."
Manhole thefts aren't exclusive to Philadelphia. Thousands of cast iron manhole covers in cities across the country have been pilfered in the past year. Chicago lost 200 in one month, with 40 reportedly taken in a single day. Seventy-five have been taken recently in Greensboro, N.C. More than 50 have been stolen in Long Beach, Calif., since January. And in Cherokee County, Ga., more than 30 have been taken in just the last two weeks.......more at link

Like...where do you take a manhole cover and sell it for scrap? Obviously there is no possible way to be in possession of manhole covers unless they were stolen from the government. All for the cost of steel. wow

[Joe King]

As you mention, it does seem like they'd be hard to sell for the average joe, so who would steal them? Unscrupulous manhole cover dealers selling them to other towns, perhaps? The local steel mill that needs more high carbon scrap steel? I dunno. It be interesting to find out, for sure.

[sirgonzo420]

lots of copper thefts here too.

Churches, businesses, homes.

Sometimes they will fuck up a whole HVAC system for just a couple feet of copper.

Alarm systems for A/C units are starting to be a much bigger thing than in the past...

[Dogman]

lots of copper thefts here too.

Churches, businesses, homes.

Sometimes they will fuck up a whole HVAC system for just a couple feet of copper.

Alarm systems for A/C units are starting to be a much bigger thing than in the past...

Same here, also local security co's are installing video cams, to watch a/c units free of charge.

The most ingenious trick the contractors are starting to use, is to hide, very small gps tracking devices in the a/c's. That worked in two cases, cops knocked on the doors of the thief's house within one hour of the theft. That was a round eye surprise, for the thief's. ;D
One church was hit 3 times running before the tracker was installed.

[gunDriller]

Same here, also local security co's are installing video cams, to watch a/c units free of charge.

The most ingenious trick the contractors are starting to use, is to hide, very small gps tracking devices in the a/c's. That worked in two cases, cops knocked on the doors of the thief's house within one hour of the theft. That was a round eye surprise, for the thief's. ;D
One church was hit 3 times running before the tracker was installed.

Quest for the Smiley's >> following BabushkaLady's instructions, i am looking for the Smileys.


OK, as far as air conditioning goes - those AC units would work ALMOST as well with steel tubing replacing the copper tubing.

i think the copper tubing is used in the part that does the tube-to-air heat transfer, and for that kind of heat transfer, they could have silver tubing, and steel would work almost as good.

:-( :-)

i hit advanced, i clicked on attachments ... if this keeps up i'm gonna have to go Do It Yourself Smiley.

[Ash_Williams]

The law won't make a difference. I have a good relationship with the guys at the scrap yard - if I really wanted to I could just have people bring me the manhole covers or air conditioners then I'd take them in with no questions asked. Take stuff in the morning and it's shredded by noon. I saw another guy who I guess was in the good books of the yard take in a large trailer full of shopping carts.

[Dogman]

Quest for the Smiley's >> following BabushkaLady's instructions, i am looking for the Smileys.


OK, as far as air conditioning goes - those AC units would work ALMOST as well with steel tubing replacing the copper tubing.

i think the copper tubing is used in the part that does the tube-to-air heat transfer, and for that kind of heat transfer, they could have silver tubing, and steel would work almost as good.

:-( :-)

i hit advanced, i clicked on attachments ... if this keeps up i'm gonna have to go Do It Yourself Smiley.

Yes I agree we need a good smiley library on the forum.

What you Nut's! ;D Put silver tubing in a a/c condenser? Dam then the thievery would be worse. And automated machine gun nests would be needed. >:D (would knock down the crime level)

Think the main reason copper is used in the units them selfs, is for the heat conductivity and ease of soldering. With copper it is easy to run the lines, where steel would be a bitch, involving many soldered joints. or mechanical connectors.

Steel in a/c units?

Steel may work, if the tubing is thin enough, but harder to work with and solder. same with the lines connecting the condenser and evaporator units.
Also I would think the amount of tubing needed to match the heat transfer of copper, would need to be more. So to make a unit using steel , it would have to be bigger than one made with copper.

Also carbon steel will rust, so stainless steel would have to be used. On both sides of the refrigeration cycle lots of water is produced and the coils get wet.

A Lot of the churches, that are in the county's that are in the deep woods and have no close neighbors, are having members setup mobile homes and members staying in them. And the law is using church grounds as bases between calls, and places to do paper work at night, to try to cut down the theft.

Sign of the times? Economy sucks, no jobs here, and I think it is going to get worse not better.

[DMac]

They are working on a bill now, to make it illegal to sell anything that can not be verified from where it comes from, copper ,aluminum and who you are and where you live, illegal. Trying to cut down on the theft.

It is that bad.


legislation like this never stopped the chop shops from breaking down/reselling stolen cars. Theft and sale will continue underground.

[midnight rambler]

legislation like this never stopped the chop shops from breaking down/reselling stolen cars. Theft and sale will continue underground.

If there's no honest means of making a living, then what's left?? Taking a state job, like being a cop, or engage in criminal activity (yeah, I know, what's the difference, right? both involve taking someone else's property).

[Horn]

Looks like a good time to invest in a smelter.

[freespirit]

awoke turned me on to this site some time ago...

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

lots of info!!

[Horn]

awoke turned me on to this site some time ago...

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

lots of info!!

Now all's we need is a strip of land in Nevada with mining rights, and we can produce a bounty.

[Dogman]

awoke turned me on to this site some time ago...

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

lots of info!!

When much younger in the teen years, my best friend and me used to walk the rr tracks and pick up coal and coke that fell off the hopper cars. We made a smelting furnace just to see what we could melt in it. Used an old vacuum cleaner rigged to blow air (all could back then) for the blower. We had friends that their fathers worked at lone star steel so was able to snag what we needed to do the job plus some advice, (they thought it was cool that kids took interest) Copper was easy to melt, and we were able to melt local iron ore.

Looking back,at the crazy things we did back then, am amazed , still walking this earth

[Shorty Harris]

The big thing around here is people stealing ANYTHING electrical that is left behind the local charities, Goodwill, & thrift stores. But what really pisses me off is that they wont take this crap back to their shithole to scavenge.

Back behind my house is a wooded area with a dirt road. Nice lil country road. These losers will take all that shit and strip it back there on the dirt road, leaving the carcasses of TV's, pc monitors, household stuff & whatever. Then if thats not bad enough then the local teens go back there and bust out all the screens and just tear everything up. Broken glass & shit everywhere

So, Now, there is all this shit..looks like a fucking junkyard now. Call the city? yeah right..been there done that..worthless. Ive even takin it upon myself to clean it then a week later its the same way.

[freespirit]

shorty--

you could try calling some of the local metal scrappers, they may find some value in it. (where i live, there are always drop off bins, p/u as well). just because all the "good stuff" has been poached doesn't mean there is no more value to be had...the scrapmonster link i posted earlier in the thread would show you if there is any value in the carcasses left behind...

[gunDriller]

awoke turned me on to this site some time ago...

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

lots of info!!


i would love to see a resurgence of the Industrial Arts in American schools. and for the girls too !

if people knew how hard it is to melt steel - or even silver gold or copper - they would realize what a bunch of hogwash the official US gov. 9-11 conspiracy theory is.

[LastResort]

i would love to see a resurgence of the Industrial Arts in American schools. and for the girls too !

if people knew how hard it is to melt steel - or even silver gold or copper - they would realize what a bunch of hogwash the official US gov. 9-11 conspiracy theory is.

The interest in how things are made is truely sad. I graduated highschool 9 years ago now out of a highschool that had approximatly 2500 students. My last year grade 12, 3 students chose to enroll in metal shop class. The shop itselft was awsome lathes, mills, drill presses, grinders, every type of welder, an oldschool blacksmith furnace, benders, punches, I could go on and on. The course itself was a joke make two manditory projects then build whatever the hell you wanted and get graded on it. Three kids enrolled unreal.

[Dogman]

The interest in how things are made is truely sad. I graduated highschool 9 years ago now out of a highschool that had approximatly 2500 students. My last year grade 12, 3 students chose to enroll in metal shop class. The shop itselft was awsome lathes, mills, drill presses, grinders, every type of welder, an oldschool blacksmith furnace, benders, punches, I could go on and on. The course itself was a joke make two manditory projects then build whatever the hell you wanted and get graded on it. Three kids enrolled unreal.

Back in the 60's , I took every metal shop and drafting class offered, and then some, The teacher was a cranky old, sob, named Grady Parrish that would bust our butts good if things got out of hand. He knew his stuff--cold, best dam teacher , ever!

[Canadian-guerilla]

They are working on a bill now, to make it illegal to sell anything that can not be verified from where it comes from, copper ,aluminum and who you are and where you live, illegal. Trying to cut down on the theft.

It is that bad.

i don't think .gov is worried about theft
i think they're trying to put the squeeze on future underground/barter economies

[Canadian-guerilla]

Back in the 60's , I took every metal shop and drafting class offered, and then some, The teacher was a cranky old, sob, named Grady Parrish that would bust our butts good if things got out of hand. He knew his stuff--cold, best dam teacher , ever!

those that actually know how to work with their hands will be in great demand after TSHTF

" i don't know what makes it work, i just hit the button

can YOU fix it ?"

[Dogman]

those that actually know how to work with their hands will be in great demand after tshtf

" i don't know what makes it work, i just hit the button

can you fix it ?"

So much truth!

;D


8)

[Joe King]

As far as technology being good or bad, IMHO that comes down to what is in the heart of the person{s} using making, or designing it.




The interest in how things are made is truely sad. I graduated highschool 9 years ago now out of a highschool that had approximatly 2500 students. My last year grade 12, 3 students chose to enroll in metal shop class. The shop itselft was awsome lathes, mills, drill presses, grinders, every type of welder, an oldschool blacksmith furnace, benders, punches, I could go on and on. The course itself was a joke make two manditory projects then build whatever the hell you wanted and get graded on it. Three kids enrolled unreal.That shop sounds like my HS metal shop. Although we didn't have a blacksmith furnace.

Here's a pic of one of my projects. Titanium candlestick holders. They had piles of the stuff laying around, but I was the only one that wanted to use it. It's some tough stuff. Broke at least one or two tools on it. lol

[solid]

The interest in how things are made is truely sad. I graduated highschool 9 years ago now out of a highschool that had approximatly 2500 students. My last year grade 12, 3 students chose to enroll in metal shop class. The shop itselft was awsome lathes, mills, drill presses, grinders, every type of welder, an oldschool blacksmith furnace, benders, punches, I could go on and on. The course itself was a joke make two manditory projects then build whatever the hell you wanted and get graded on it. Three kids enrolled unreal.

I took wood shop in high school, recently found out that my old high school doesn't even offer that any more. They don't even offer auto shop any more, sad.. It seems as though learning hands on trades has been crushed out of existence as an option.

The funniest class I took was in 12th grade. I signed up for a class called maintenance and repair. Out of over 300 kids in my 12th grade class, only 2 of us signed up for this class. The "teacher" was the school maintenance guy, the class room was his one room shed of tools, and the course was us going around the school simply fixing things that were broken. I actually learned a lot of hands-on troubleshooting skills from that class, even though that class was kind of a joke. It was obvious that the class was just to give the maintenance guy some extra help, without having to hire an extra worker. Half the time the maintenance guy was out fixing things when we showed up. Me and the other kid would have to walk around the school trying to track him down. Sometimes we couldn't find him at all. We both got A's in that class. ;D

[Dogman]

I took wood shop in high school, recently found out that my old high school doesn't even offer that any more. They don't even offer auto shop any more, sad.. It seems as though learning hands on trades has been crushed out of existence as an option.

The funniest class I took was in 12th grade. I signed up for a class called maintenance and repair. Out of over 300 kids in my 12th grade class, only 2 of us signed up for this class. The "teacher" was the school maintenance guy, the class room was his one room shed of tools, and the course was us going around the school simply fixing things that were broken. I actually learned a lot of hands-on troubleshooting skills from that class, even though that class was kind of a joke. It was obvious that the class was just to give the maintenance guy some extra help, without having to hire an extra worker. Half the time the maintenance guy was out fixing things when we showed up. Me and the other kid would have to walk around the school trying to track him down. Sometimes we couldn't find him at all. We both got A's in that class. ;D

Without good maintenance men and people, around to fix or correct. The whole dam world would grind to a halt.------No exceptions.

[LastResort]

Back in the 60's , I took every metal shop and drafting class offered, and then some, The teacher was a cranky old, sob, named Grady Parrish that would bust our butts good if things got out of hand. He knew his stuff--cold, best dam teacher , ever!

Good ol crusty shop teacher sounds like mine. He was good though taught me alot of basic things do's and don't's. I see people I work with in industry fucking these basic princliples up all the time.




That shop sounds like my HS metal shop. Although we didn't have a blacksmith furnace.

Here's a pic of one of my projects. Titanium candlestick holders. They had piles of the stuff laying around, but I was the only one that wanted to use it. It's some tough stuff. Broke at least one or two tools on it. lol

Those candlestick holders look sweet. Only worked with titanium once, had to lasercut some blanks out of a 6mm thick sheet. That stuff is not friendly. Probably took me two hours to find a suitable cutting condition.


I took wood shop in high school, recently found out that my old high school doesn't even offer that any more. They don't even offer auto shop any more, sad.. It seems as though learning hands on trades has been crushed out of existence as an option.

The funniest class I took was in 12th grade. I signed up for a class called maintenance and repair. Out of over 300 kids in my 12th grade class, only 2 of us signed up for this class. The "teacher" was the school maintenance guy, the class room was his one room shed of tools, and the course was us going around the school simply fixing things that were broken. I actually learned a lot of hands-on troubleshooting skills from that class, even though that class was kind of a joke. It was obvious that the class was just to give the maintenance guy some extra help, without having to hire an extra worker. Half the time the maintenance guy was out fixing things when we showed up. Me and the other kid would have to walk around the school trying to track him down. Sometimes we couldn't find him at all. We both got A's in that class. ;D

That maintenance class sounds awsome.LOL Probably helped develop problem solving skills more than you think it did.

The new highschool they're building in my town is only going to have a small 2 bay auto shop I believe. Even at a young age in schools we're teaching kids to go pursue some bullshit profession involving making paper run in circles instead of getting young people into careers of producing tangible things that create real wealth.

[gunDriller]

when i was in school, there was a big emphasis on industrial arts ... i guess i was lucky.

part of my education was all the little shop accidents.

once i was using a chisel to carve the edge of a piece of Formica. my left hand was about 5 inches away from the chisel, which was very sharp. it slipped and drove right into my left middle finger, to the bone.

i took the rest of the day off. :-)


another time i knocked a 235 watt vane-axial blower off a table. it was on. i tried to imitate Bruce Lee and catch it mid-air. THOK ! the blade smacked one of my fingers right on the end, down to the bone. i went into the bathroom, opened it up under the faucet, and realized i was about to faint. i laid down for a half hour.

[Dogman]

when i was in school, there was a big emphasis on industrial arts ... i guess i was lucky.

part of my education was all the little shop accidents.

once i was using a chisel to carve the edge of a piece of Formica. my left hand was about 5 inches away from the chisel, which was very sharp. it slipped and drove right into my left middle finger, to the bone.

i took the rest of the day off. :-)


another time i knocked a 235 watt vane-axial blower off a table. it was on. i tried to imitate Bruce Lee and catch it mid-air. THOK ! the blade smacked one of my fingers right on the end, down to the bone. i went into the bathroom, opened it up under the faucet, and realized i was about to faint. i laid down for a half hour.

Yep

When young we do tend to learn from our ignorance , good life lessons, ------if we survive them.

[Joe King]

Those candlestick holders look sweet. Only worked with titanium once, had to lasercut some blanks out of a 6mm thick sheet. That stuff is not friendly. Probably took me two hours to find a suitable cutting condition.
Thanks. Those started out square and as you pointed out, it also took me awhile to figure out the right feeds and speeds to knock the corners off without breaking the tool in the process. Not friendly is an understatement.
Rattled the whole shop turning those down from square. BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM!....every half second, all day long. Everyone was glad when I was finished with 'em. lol

[gunDriller]

SCORE !

i knew this was going to happen.

there's maybe 4 locations in San Fransicko where Big Hunks of Valuable Metal are on Display -
* City Hall - 2 Bronze Sculptures right there on Van Ness
* Geary - Saint Mary's Cathedral - skateboard park/ Catholic church - 5000 pound copper bell just sitting there.
* Russian Orthodox church - 25th & Geary - Gold Leaf on Roof.

Well ... they got the Bell. 5000 pounds of copper. took the church a month to realize it was gone. it didn't look like copper - it was oxidized/ corroded.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/24/BAPU1LLIPU.DTL&tsp=1

"SAN FRANCISCO -- The bell at St. Mary's Cathedral rang through the 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire. It survived when an arsonist torched the old cathedral in 1962. And although it was replaced with an electronic chime in the 1970s, for decades it stood strong on a wooden platform outside the rebuilt church.

But sometime in the last month, metal thieves made off with the 122-year-old, 2.7-ton bell."


Can you imagine pulling up in a truck (e.g. F250 with Power Stroke Diesel & Flatbed), with a crane, cabling up the bell, hoisting it, & re-packing the crane ? In the dark ?

Sounds DANGEROUS.

If I was the cops I would check with local hospital Emergency Rooms for patients with squished fingers & crushed feet during that time-frame.


So, 1 down, 3 to go. wonder which one will be next ?