Denninger - So How Many More Lies Will It Be?

[Ares]

You awake at this hour of the night?

You should be.

The Euro is breaking down severely along with big declines in Asia. Why? Lies.

http://market-ticker.org/cgi-mt/akcs-www?get_gallerynr=1987

What's the actual exposure at Unicredit to bad debt? Everything - mortgages, sovereign, Greek, whatever?

Does the market know the truth? No.

Does it know the truth about our banks? No. Bank of America just recently took a charge that was massively in excess of their alleged reserves for the same event. Do you believe its over? Why would you - it hasn't been thus far.

This campaign of lies is now running out of gas. The market is calling "Bull!" on everything that is being emitted from the so-called "authorities", including in this case Junker.

There's no fix for lies other than truth. The problem with the truth is that the banks are insolvent. Yes, ours. Yes, theirs. They did not take down their leverage. They hid it. There, here, everywhere, and it was done with the full complicity and active involvement of governments. Specifically, swaps and derivatives were not forced onto an exchange where chained risk is eliminated and independent nightly margining by a third party who has to make good if they don't do their job is enforced.

This is why Greece isn't fixed and why there's such a tizzy over defaults and "restructuring." It is why the ECB is so*****ed about the possibility of a credit event, because they broke their own rules on collateral quality and are holding a bunch of this trash themselves. Yeah, they'll probably survive Greece if it blows.

Italy? Not a prayer in Hell and the market is telling you it's going to happen.

Our government, for its part, faked a "recovery" with more than 10% of GDP in borrowed and blown funds. We spent it on things like giving free illegal guns to Mexican gangs through Gunwalker (yes, that was in the porkulus bill) which unfortunately turned into a subtraction to GDP when the guns were subsequently used to kill people that actually were productive.

Italy "restricted" short sales today. This is yet another desperation move. Were the shorts wrong in 2008? No, they were right. They were trading on knowledge that Lehman was factually bankrupt. They knew this because Lehman tried to repo with them and their collateral was no good - and when challenged on it, they had nothing else to use. Those were not "bets", they were positions taken with knowledge of the facts.

Facts that our government and Federal Reserve intentionally concealed from the rest of us. That is, they lied.

This evening we're being treated to the same sort of instability in the futures markets that we saw in 2008, just a few weeks and months before it all blew up. History in the markets rarely repeats, but it often rhymes, and I hear echoes of the crying by CNBS anchors as the DOW fell 700 points.

Folks, I hope you've enjoyed the ride upward in the market and the faux "recovery" that produced no jobs and in fact has a lower labor participation rate than it did in 2009. That, of course is otherwise known as the "taxpayer rate", or those who can pay taxes (it's hard to pay taxes when you're unemployed and on the dole.)

Yes, there will be more sticksave attempts. I expect one this coming morning, in fact, as another day like today over in Europe is going to break some key technical levels and might set off a waterfall decline, both in their markets and ours. Then you'll have to see Obama on the TeeVee once again telling us how exceptional America is.

He's right - we are exceptional.

We're exceptional liars, starting with him.

Get some rest folks - it's going to be in short supply soon.

http://market-ticker.org/cgi-mt/akcs-www?post=189804

[Canadian-guerilla]

things seem to be coming to a head

and soon

with or without the US debt ceiling being raised

[Ares]

things seem to be coming to a head

and soon

with or without the US debt ceiling being raised

Yep, I made some ground with coworkers yesterday. They were discussing the debt ceiling. I said either way we're fucked. They need to find 1.5 Trillion dollars, who's going to buy it? All I got were blank stares. China is in no mood for more of our debt, Japan is busy reconstructing it's nation and it too is massively in debt. Europe is on the verge of collapse, and Russia doesn't have a wallet big enough for 1.5 trillion. So that leaves the Federal Reserve to buy it. That leads to hyperinflation. If the debt ceiling doesn't rise we default and have deflation. So we're damned if we do damned if we don't. I got some approving nods and the general mood was yeah we're screwed.

[Horn]

http://abolishthefederalreserve.org/

[mamboni]

There is a solution. It may be the inescapable endpoint of this crazy monetary Ponzi scheme. But, the transition would be painful and it assumes that the US Treasury has the gold it claims it has. The government could order the creation of a new constitutional dollar, backed by gold, at $10,000 per ounce of gold. This would result in 10% gold backing and reliquification of the system. But it would force governments into balanced budgets and would end US military interventionalism internationally. It would leave much of the citizenry impoverished, though some form of convertability from FRNs to gold dollars would be provided for. The Wall Street banks would have to be sacrificed in the bargian. And the Federal Reserve would undergo an orderly bankrupty liquidation.

[Hermie]

How about we start by repudiating the debt owed to the Federal Reserve?

Allegedly that is a part of our government, so we owe that debt to 'ourselves', right?

I think it is about 1 Trillion +... That would be a good chunk to chop.

And we'd find out quickly just how "Federal" the FED is...

[Book]

The Greek Beggar is online


I am a Greek beggar, one of the many that will emerge the years to come in Greece. But I will be the first, that will not beg for money on a street, or a sidewalk but on the internet. So... Can you give me a Euro or Dollar or whatever currency your country has?! Please donate! (http://goo.gl/ItAkN)

http://ozitianos.blogspot.com/2011/03/greek-beggar-is-online.html

[Horn]

The domino effect of central banks across the globe might just have the rest of the world rejoice in U.S. favor.

[Hatha Sunahara]

It would not surprise me at all if we find out that the Treasury has a whole lot of gold plated tungsten bars at Ft. Knox, or wherever they keep it. But very very little real gold. A lot less than they are supposed to have.

We will be discovering the extent of corruption in the economy, and at some point we will all throw up our hands and come to terms with a total collapse which is what will be needed to clean out that corruption. It's not likely that the people responsible for this collapse will have justice meted out to them. But you never know. The French Revolution actually guillotined the king. Most likely he was not responsible for the disorder, and the real culprits slipped under the radar of history.


Hatha

[po boy]

There is a solution. It may be the inescapable endpoint of this crazy monetary Ponzi scheme. But, the transition would be painful and it assumes that the US Treasury has the gold it claims it has. The government could order the creation of a new constitutional dollar, backed by gold, at $10,000 per ounce of gold. This would result in 10% gold backing and reliquification of the system. But it would force governments into balanced budgets and would end US military interventionalism internationally. It would leave much of the citizenry impoverished, though some form of convertability from FRNs to gold dollars would be provided for. The Wall Street banks would have to be sacrificed in the bargian. And the Federal Reserve would undergo an orderly bankrupty liquidation.

Isn't that what ASEs are? How about people quit dealing in FRN and credit, stop making taxable income and buy sell and trade with property(aka ASE and GAE) and stop using SSN#'s.

[mamboni]

It would not surprise me at all if we find out that the Treasury has a whole lot of gold plated tungsten bars at Ft. Knox, or wherever they keep it. But very very little real gold. A lot less than they are supposed to have.

We will be discovering the extent of corruption in the economy, and at some point we will all throw up our hands and come to terms with a total collapse which is what will be needed to clean out that corruption. It's not likely that the people responsible for this collapse will have justice meted out to them. But you never know. The French Revolution actually guillotined the king. Most likely he was not responsible for the disorder, and the real culprits slipped under the radar of history.


Hatha

I smell bagels.


Are you predicting that 'many will die?'

[mamboni]

Isn't that what ASEs are? How about people quit dealing in FRN and credit, stop making taxable income and buy sell and trade with property(aka ASE and GAE) and stop using SSN#'s.

ASEs are not Constitutional dollars per specifications vis-a-vis silver content, whilst circulated silver dollars (i.e. Morgan) are. In the event of a complete system collapse, SAEs would likely function well in a barter-based economy.

[Horn]

ASEs are not Constitutional dollars per specifications vis-a-vis silver content, whilst circulated silver dollars (i.e. Morgan) are. In the event of a complete system collapse, SAEs would likely function well in a barter-based economy.

I would retie your hair knot for a couple SAE's.

[Awoke]

The debt is all digital ledger entries anyways - None of it is real. The Government knows it, and they also know that most of the population have no idea how fake the debt is. They could wipe it clean with a few stokes on the proper keyboards.
But that is not the purpose of fiat debt. It's purpose is to enslave the populace under a false sense of urgency to "do their part" to help "pay off the debt", which in reality ends with the people keeping their heads down, sometimes working 2 to 3 jobs just to get by and provide for their families.

Total erasure of all outstanding fiat debt in all Countries world wide, with an out-and-out economic reset with a PM backed standard is the only answer IMO.


....however I am no economist.

[Horn]

Total erasure of all outstanding fiat debt in all Countries world wide, with an out-and-out economic reset with a PM backed standard is the only answer IMO.


....however I am no economist.

Gold & Silver wouldn't even be needed if it were credit based, your currency would simply be worth what I can get from you with it.

Governments would be further charged to maintain their credit paper, lest they wouldn't get anything for it.

That might lead to a strong interdependence & alliance amongst nations, something TpTb would rather subvert at a whim.

Plus, the notion of barbarous relic would soon enter upon the stage again if currencies were Gold backed.

[Awoke]

"Credit based" is what got us where we are now.

[Horn]

"Credit based" is what got us where we are now.

Debt based.

The only need for gold is its anti-counterfeit abilities, most of which could be offset by sophisticated techniques, and a 50% taxable usage fee.

Most .govs would have a hard time maintaining composure with it, as their's is an empirical history of pyramid building.



What better way to eliminate the vital faith people had in this rival currency than to pretend it simply never existed and not discuss it. That seems to be what happened when the first shareholder's in the Bank of England bought their original shares with notched pieces of wood and retired the system. You heard correctly, they bought shares. The Bank of England was set up as a privately owned bank through investors buying shares. Even the Banks resent nationalisation is not what it at first may appear, as its independent resources unceasingly multiply and dividends continue to be produced for its shareholder's.

http://www.xat.org/xat/moneyhistory.html

[Uncle Salty]

Isn't that what ASEs are? How about people quit dealing in FRN and credit, stop making taxable income and buy sell and trade with property(aka ASE and GAE) and stop using SSN#'s.

How about Freegold? You are not going to get rid of digital dollars or paper currency. Freegold solves the problem of money being both currency and a store of value.

Nothing wrong with debt, as long as gold is not lent out, only fiat.

Boom. Done.

While we're at it, why not have world peace?

[Horn]

While we're at it, why not have world peace?

If gold were $10,000 an ounce, you wouldn't see me posting here anymore.

I know, I know, you all want that... :p

[Glass]

How about we start by repudiating the debt owed to the Federal Reserve?

Allegedly that is a part of our government, so we owe that debt to 'ourselves', right?

I think it is about 1 Trillion +... That would be a good chunk to chop.

And we'd find out quickly just how "Federal" the FED is...


I keep hearing this story that there was some clause enabling the American People to buy or buy out the Federal Reserve for $500 Million FRN's. Don't know any more about it than that but it would be a plan IMO.

[po boy]

How about Freegold? You are not going to get rid of digital dollars or paper currency. Freegold solves the problem of money being both currency and a store of value.

Nothing wrong with debt, as long as gold is not lent out, only fiat.

Boom. Done.

While we're at it, why not have world peace?

Freegold? Feel free to send all you like.

[Awoke]

Debt based.


Credit is debt. Debt is credit. Even credit without usury is debt. Am I wrong?

[po boy]

Credit is debt. Debt is credit. Even credit without usury is debt. Am I wrong?

That is how I see it as well.

If If you give credit to someone they are in debt to you or you have a debt to someone and you have fulfilled part of the terms thus receive a credit towards the debt.

[Horn]

A credit based system leaves nobody to be owed, its non interest bearing, non-usury.

The government issues the currency, then "could" tax if necessary to recoup & destroy sticks to boost value.

Tallysticks are the example. Its that simple, and you could use all the anti-counterfeit technology in the world to prevent.

Its only when you get a bunch of stick gathers sitting around having all they can get that they then want more, that it falls prey to failure.

This worked for almost a thousand years, until the stick hounds fell prey to failure.