Ron Paul vs Bernanke: Is Gold Money? - July 13, 2011

[Cebu_4_2]

How do I embed videos instead of just links?

http://youtu.be/2NJnL10vZ1Y

[Dogman]

How do I embed videos instead of just links?

http://youtu.be/2NJnL10vZ1Y
Top menu.
Second icon from the right, looks like film, or pictures stacked, click and past link in box, Note: not all vid's will work,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NJnL10vZ1Y&feature=youtu.be

[mamboni]

How do I embed videos instead of just links?

http://youtu.be/2NJnL10vZ1Y

Use the 'Embed Video' button young skywalker.


http://youtu.be/2NJnL10vZ1Y

[chad]

gold goes up $16.50. pure comedy.

[Cebu_4_2]

I only see that option when replying, never on original post... trying again


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NJnL10vZ1Y&feature=player_embedded

[Dogman]

Original post , 5th button from right, Icon looks like two frames of film.

[joboo]

Really think about what just happened there. Here's this guy that is supposed to be the most knowledgeable, and most studied person in the world on currency, and economics, and he says gold is not money. Yes folks this is how bad they have to lie now to keep the illusion going. Top 10 most stupid things buddy has said my bet is this makes the top 3 for sure including all future predictions. In your face absolutely unbelievable, and beyond belief.

[mamboni]

Nevermind the video. This is all we need to know.

Dr. Paul gets the truth out of Bernanke:

Dr. Paul: "Is gold money?"
Bernanke: "No."
Dr. Paul: "Why do banks hold gold?"
Bernanke: "It's an asset."
Dr. Paul: "Why don't they hold diamonds?"
Bernanke: "It's tradition."

:o???:o???:o???:o???:o

And this jackass is the Chairman of the Federal Reserve?!?!?! The US has become the laughing stock of the world. Buy gold, buy silver, and do it again and again. Or put your faith in the dollar and Ben "Tradition" Bernanke.;D

[MAGNES]

gold goes up $16.50. pure comedy.

Gold made a new high in the summer, the metal gods spoke.

Someone show me the last time gold made a new high in the summer.

Everyone is afraid to stick their head into the SI futures, lol .
Chop.

[chad]

Really think about what just happened there. Here's this guy that is supposed to be the most knowledgeable, and most studied person in the world on currency, and economics, and he says gold is not money. Yes folks this is how bad they have to lie now to keep the illusion going. Top 10 most stupid things buddy has said my bet is this makes the top 3 for sure including all future predictions. In your face absolutely unbelievable, and beyond belief.

well, in his defense he really only had two options. either say it's not money (it goes up $16) or say it is money (goes up $2,000).

[mamboni]

I do not have that option! screenshot:

You must have triggered the GSUS TrollGuard software firewall. You will have to reregister under a new nmae that does not contain the underline character.;D

[Dogman]

I do not have that option! screenshot:

Dam man.

Go to your setting and turn on full editor, default is simple. and save when you exit.

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[Dogman]

Nevermind the video. This is all we need to know.

Dr. Paul gets the truth out of Bernanke:

Dr. Paul: "Is gold money?"
Bernanke: "No."
Dr. Paul: "Why do banks hold gold?"
Bernanke: "It's an asset."
Dr. Paul: "Why don't they hold diamonds?"
Bernanke: "It's tradition."

:o???:o???:o???:o???:o

And this jackass is the Chairman of the Federal Reserve?!?!?! The US has become the laughing stock of the world. Buy gold, buy silver, and do it again and again. Or put your faith in the dollar and Ben "Tradition" Bernanke.;D

Yes the guy is a complete, zombie.

[Cebu_4_2]

You are the man! Thanks a LOT


Dam man.

Go to your setting and turn on full editor, default is simple. and save when you exit.

Miscellaneous Options

Message Editor Interface:


Enhanced Interface - Full WYSIWYG Editing
Basic Editor - A simple text box
Standard Editor - Extra formatting controls


When posting messages to the forums or other members, there are three interface types available to you. The simplest of these is a simple text box, while the last is a fully-fledged WYSIWYG editor, which allows you to format your text as you want it and see the results immediately.

 Depending upon the capabilities of your web browser, you may not be able to use all of these options. If you experience problems when posting messages, try switching to a different interface type.

[joboo]

He should have just said it was bling and be done with it, then go out a get a gold front tooth for his next press conference. Shit...at this point he might as well blaze it up bi-winning style like Sheen, and get on with it. Talk about delaying the inevitable....

[Ares]

Dr. Paul should of printed out a report showing that Central banks the world over disagree with Mr. Helicopter Bernanke.

As they are now NET BUYERS of gold.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/12/businesspro-us-centralbank-idUSTRE73B7WP20110412

[EE_]

Nevermind the video. This is all we need to know.

Dr. Paul gets the truth out of Bernanke:

Dr. Paul: "Is gold money?"
Bernanke: "No."
Dr. Paul: "Why do banks hold gold?"
Bernanke: "It's an asset."
Dr. Paul: "Why don't they hold diamonds?"
Bernanke: "It's tradition."
Dr. Paul: Are federal reserve notes money?
Bernank: No!
Dr. Paul: Then why do banks hold them?
Bernank: Because the Jews can make as many of them as they want and charge usury on the Goy!
Dr. Paul: But you are a Jew!
Bernank: That's right...thank you for your questions!
Bernank: Who's next?


:-).............

[keehah]

Gold is tradition Bernank says? Perhaps this is one of those 'the truth is told for those in the know' events. ;)

This quote sums things up: seems the tradition was 'tradition' and store or transfer of value pretty much meant the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition

Definition of tradition

The English word "tradition" comes from the Latin traditio, the noun from the verb traderere or tradere (to transmit, to hand over, to give for safekeeping); it was originally used in Roman law to refer to the concept of legal transfers and inheritance. According to Anthony Giddens and others, the modern meaning of tradition can be seen as having evolved in the European discourse in the last two hundred years, during the Enlightenment period, as philosophers and thinkers counter posed the concept of modernity with the concept of tradition, in the context of progress.
And a reminder that progress was not just about 'better'.

http://www.latin-dictionary.org/Latin-English-Dictionary-(AZAD)/progressus

advance, going forward, increase, a royal circuit

[po boy]

Gold isn't money?
According to us code title 31 sec.5103

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

and
§ 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
How Current is This?
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams.
(3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams.
(4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams.
(5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
(6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold.
(8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold.
(9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold.
(11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold.

[LuckyStrike]

Dr. Paul should of printed out a report showing that Central banks the world over disagree with Mr. Helicopter Bernanke.

As they are now NET BUYERS of gold.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/12/businesspro-us-centralbank-idUSTRE73B7WP20110412

They are just keeping with tradition, duh.

:)

[LuckyStrike]

I knew it would be good when I saw the title of this video on youtube, but I didn't know it would be that good.

I've seen many CSPAN rounds of Paul V. Ben Shalom Bernanke, and that is by far the best yet, I busted out laughing when he said "well, it's tradition"

Dr. Paul played that whole thing beautifully, from the point of interrupting his lying ass, to asking if Gold is money, then why do central banks hold it, and then the knock out uppercut "then why don't they hold diamonds"

Dr. Paul played it perfectly, and to me it shows how brutally he could humiliate Ben if he would just take the gloves off. I see no need to play his game, no need for formalities, Ben is a liar everyone who has even a rudimentary understanding of economics knows this, he deserves nobodies respect, so I'm glad Ron Paul finally took him to the cleaners.

I might watch this video daily.

[General of Darkness]

And then the jews have the nerve to ask, "Why is there so much anti-shitmitism?". Well I guess you reap what you sow.

[Joe King]

I like from where RP is coming from and I support his apparent intentions, but when he asks questions he oftentimes gets to rambling on and on without always having a specific point. Then the Bernack gives an equally rambling answer that mostly ignores the jist of the presumed question.

From :10-2:45 he makes a lot of statements and then he asks why the fed didn't do something that RP himself goes on to say that he wouldn't have supported doing even if the fed had wanted to. {why didn't they give people "money" instead of the too-big-to-fails}
I mean, why even waste time asking a nonsense question like that? He probably lost half the people in room before he even got to his "question".
Even the Bernack had the bored, uninterested look of a teenager getting lectured by his parents and hoping it stops soon, at the :15 mark. lol

Then after he interupts him, all he asks is if the Bernack cares about the price of gold, and if gold is money. Well, in a defacto kind of way it isn't "money" as commonly defined by the general public. Can anyone show me a store that prices goods in gold? I'll wait.

Personally, I think it is, but I still can't buy anything with it unless I sell it first, or am stupid enough to use a GAE at face value.

IMO, RP is always too easy on him. What he should ask are yes or no questions that are calculated to lead the Bernack into a corner, in a public venue. >:D

Can anyone think of some questions like that?

[mamboni]

I like from where RP is coming from and I support his apparent intentions, but when he asks questions he oftentimes gets to rambling on and on without always having a specific point. Then the Bernack gives an equally rambling answer that mostly ignores the jist of the presumed question.

From :10-2:45 he makes a lot of statements and then he asks why the fed didn't do something that RP himself goes on to say that he wouldn't have supported doing even if the fed had wanted to. {why didn't they give people "money" instead of the too-big-to-fails}
I mean, why even waste time asking a nonsense question like that? He probably lost half the people in room before he even got to his "question".
Even the Bernack had the bored, uninterested look of a teenager getting lectured by his parents and hoping it stops soon, at the :15 mark. lol

Then after he interupts him, all he asks is if the Bernack cares about the price of gold, and if gold is money. Well, in a defacto kind of way it isn't "money" as commonly defined by the general public. Can anyone show me a store that prices goods in gold? I'll wait.

Personally, I think it is, but I still can't buy anything with it unless I sell it first, or am stupid enough to use a GAE at face value.

IMO, RP is always too easy on him. What he should ask are yes or no questions that are calculated to lead the Bernack into a corner, in a public venue. >:D

Can anyone think of some questions like that?

Do you mean a question like: "Is gold money?"::)

[Joe King]

But he knows it's not "money" as the common people think of it. If you can't walk into a store a make a purchase with it for its fair value at the time of sale, then the average don't think it is, and never will. So it does no good to ask a question like that in front of a public that doesn't think it's "money" either.
You and I are different, because we both know it really is. But asking that question in front of the few people who know is like preaching to the choir, as it doesn't accomplish much.

It's viewed as a commodity under our current monetary system unless you spend a GAE for $50frn equivalent. I'll tell you what. show me a video of someone going in a store a spending a GAE and I'll believe its de facto money as well as de jure.

[mamboni]

But he knows it's not "money" as the common people think of it. If you can't walk into a store a make a purchase with it for its fair value at the time of sale, then the average don't think it is, and never will. So it does no good to ask a question like that in front of a public that doesn't think it's "money" either.
You and I are different, because we both know it really is. But asking that question in front of the few people who know is like preaching to the choir, as it doesn't accomplish much.

It's viewed as a commodity under our current monetary system unless you spend a GAE for $50frn equivalent. I'll tell you what. show me a video of someone going in a store a spending a GAE and I'll believe its de facto money as well as de jure.

Ron Paul's gold interrogative before Congress and the people has put another chink in the fiat money ideologic armor. Each day, as the system increasingly decays and more and more are victimized whilst even more become fearful, more and more are receptive to an alternative view of what exactly is money; or, more to the point, what is secure wealth. Paul planted a seed in the minds of many who never considered or even knew of gold. Every time the word gold is uttered during public debate and hearings, the monied powers are weakened a little bit more, like wood being gnawed by termites. Gold is money - that is the simple truth of it. All that remains is for a critical mass of the populous to rediscover that truth.

[Joe King]

Still, he could have used his time a bit more wisely. Even asking a question like "is gold money?", he could have asked a dozen questions like that.
Besides, if the average thinks that the Bernack is the answer man, and they generally do, gold talk is like pie-in-the-sky to them. As in it might as well not even exist because they've already convinced themselves that they can't afford it, no matter the price.

He should have hammered him on the CPI issue and the Feds supposed duty to maintain the purchasing power of the Dollar. Virtually every person alive can understand rising prices and the purchasing power of their dollars over the course of their own lives.

A good start would have been to re-calculate ahead of time the known inflation rates of the past in the new way of calculating it and then presenting the Bernack with the figures and asking him to explain the obvious differences.
That way the average could easily see that the inflation that they themselves experienced, if re-calculated the new way, would not show reality as they knew it.
In an instant, they would realize that the new way is bogus.

[po boy]

Then after he interupts him, all he asks is if the Bernack cares about the price of gold, and if gold is money. Well, in a defacto kind of way it isn't "money" as commonly defined by the general public. Can anyone show me a store that prices goods in gold? I'll wait.

Personally, I think it is, but I still can't buy anything with it unless I sell it first, or am stupid enough to use a GAE at face value.

IMO, RP is always too easy on him. What he should ask are yes or no questions that are calculated to lead the Bernack into a corner, in a public venue. >:D

Can anyone think of some questions like that?

Joe you must not want to purchase stuff for gold or have little imagination.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080521/BUSINESS/805210601

Guess this buyer saw a golden opportunity

The South African Krugerrand, shown is 22-karat gold, containing a trace amount of copper alloy for durability. The obverse, or heads side, shows Paul Kruger, president of South Africa from 1883 to 1900. Rand is the monetary unit of South Africa. The reverse side shows the springbok, the national animal of South Africa.
Buy Photo HERALD-TRIBUNE ARCHIVE
By Tom Bayles
Published: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 at 2:44 a.m.
Last Modified: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 at 4:39 a.m.

SARASOTA - Realtors will tell you that nearly anything both parties agree to can be written into a residential purchase contract.
Facts

KRUGERRANDS, BY THE POUND

Krugerrands, first minted in 1967, were not allowed into the United States during the 1970s and '80s to protest the South African policy of apartheid, although the ones already here continued to be traded as bullion. When political reforms came to South Africa in the early 1990s, the ban was lifted.

The Krugerrand was the first gold bullion coin to contain one troy ounce and became a world standard for the unit weight of a gold coin.

Developed later were the Canadian Maple Leaf, Chinese Panda, American Gold Eagle and Vienna Philharmonic.

The coin was named after Paul Kruger, the last president of the old South African Republic whose face adorns the coin.

The $400,000 worth used on Monday to buy a Sarasota residence would weigh in at about 37 pounds.

On Monday, Realtor Kim Ogilvie closed a deal with a very interesting twist.

A golden one to be exact.

The buyer of a downtown Sarasota residence that sold for more than $1 million brought a briefcase filled with $400,000 worth of South African Krugerrands to the closing -- that is about 444 of the gold coins. A foreign coin expert was at the closing and verified the coins' authenticity and weight.

"This was a first," Ogilvie acknowledged, adding in Realtor fashion: "It really shows you the depth to which buyers will go to use their resources to acquire properties they think are well-priced."

Despite the big push by Realtors regionwide for international buyers -- and, of course, the foreign-born Krugerrands -- both the buyer and the seller were Americans.

About 20 years ago, Ogilvie was part of a deal where the buyer brought a suitcase of $10,000 to a closing.

But Monday topped that one.

"I represented the seller and were happy to complete the transaction in whatever form they wished to use."

[mamboni]

Does the buyer incur a capital gains tax on the gold coins converted to cash transaction?

What cost basis will the seller assign to the gold? i.e. does he use the sale price of the home or the $1 million original purchase price?

[EE_]

I'm going to stand up for the Bernank just this one time...he did answer the "is gold money" question truthfully, he did not lie!
The Bernank is not an American and therefore does not abide by or believe in the constitutional definition of money.
He is only loyal to Israel and since Israel has no constitution, there is no definition of money.
"It's a tradition" was as good an answer as any from a Israeli loyal Jew.
That being said, the Bernank should be publicly executed by constitution abiding Americans.

[po boy]

Does the buyer incur a capital gains tax on the gold coins converted to cash transaction?

What cost basis will the seller assign to the gold? i.e. does he use the sale price of the home or the $1 million original purchase price?

I don't think so as he traded his gold for the house not for FRN. The price of the house is an asking price and it's value would be determined by the property appraiser.I don't think he would even have to record it in the public record if he/she didn't want to.

Simple point being as we here know Gold is money, and we in this country have the ability to privately contract.

If somebody wanted your service but wanted to pay you in PM would you turn them away?

If you took payment in a 1SAE didn't you make $1?

More on that.....http://www.newswithviews.com/brownfield/brownfield67.htm

SILVER, GOLD AND THE IRS



By Derry Brownfield
June 15, 2008

NewsWithViews.com

I began a recent presentation before a large group of cattle producers (R-CALFUSA) by showing a paper dollar bill and a silver coin. The words “one dollar” is inscribed on both the coin and the paper, yet the paper dollar will only pay for about one quart of gasoline at today’s prices, while the silver dollar will pay for well over five gallons. I explained to my audience that consumer prices are not high – the paper dollar has lost most of its value. It makes no difference how high the price of gasoline goes, a silver dollar will continue to buy gas for 20 cents a gallon, exactly the price gas was during the Great Depression. Based on 1940 prices, a paper dollar is worth about two pennies.

Today in America, we are being systematically robbed of our property because we have allowed the Federal Reserve to flood our banks with fiat, worthless paper money. There is actually a law against paper money but nobody seems to know about it. The Supreme law of the land is the US Constitution, which stated in Article I Section 10: Individual states are “not allowed to make any things but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts.” The Constitution also states that “Congress has the power to COIN money and regulate the value thereof.” Our Founding Fathers knew how a central bank printing paper money would collapse our economy. Had we followed the US Constitution to the full letter of the law, gasoline would still be 20 cents a gallon. As the dollar continues to lose value we say our currency has lost its purchasing power. It should be more properly referred to as embezzlement by the banking industry.

Robert Kahre owns a family business and instead of using paper money he paid his workers with gold and silver coins minted by the United States government. He paid them based on the “face value” of the coins. If he paid a worker a dollar an hour he paid with a silver dollar, which states on the coin that it is “one dollar” regardless of today’s value. His wages were so low that he didn’t have to file W-2 income tax forms or withhold taxes or pay workman’s comp. This upset the IRS, which charged him and his family with 161 federal tax crimes.

The case which was tried before a Las Vegas jury in a Federal Court, heard testimony for almost four months. Defendants believed they had no legal obligation to withhold, pay income taxes or report anything to the government because the “face value” of the gold and silver coins is so small as to fall beneath the reporting thresholds set by the Internal Revenue Code. The government argued that the payments in gold and silver US coins must be considered at their bullion, full-market value when considering the worth of the wages for purposes of the IRS code. The essence of the argument is that Congress is obligated by law to mint and circulate such coins as demand requires, and must establish the value of coins as they are used as legal tender, but a coin’s market value is a distinct, separate attribute of such coins and is of no legal consequence if the coins are used as legal tender. If a worker is paid with such coins, his taxable income can only be the face value indicated on the coin. “A coin dollar is worth no more for the purposes of tender in payment of an ordinary debt than a note dollar. The law has not made the note a standard of value anymore than coin. It is true that in the market, as an article of merchandise, one is of greater value than the other; but as money, as a medium of exchange, the law knows no difference between them.”

[mamboni]

I don't think so as he traded his gold for the house not for FRN. The price of the house is an asking price and it's value would be determined by the property appraiser.I don't think he would even have to record it in the public record if he/she didn't want to.

Simple point being as we here know Gold is money, and we in this country have the ability to privately contract.

If somebody wanted your service but wanted to pay you in PM would you turn them away?

If you took payment in a 1SAE didn't you make $1?

More on that.....http://www.newswithviews.com/brownfield/brownfield67.htm

SILVER, GOLD AND THE IRS



By Derry Brownfield
June 15, 2008

NewsWithViews.com

I began a recent presentation before a large group of cattle producers (R-CALFUSA) by showing a paper dollar bill and a silver coin. The words “one dollar” is inscribed on both the coin and the paper, yet the paper dollar will only pay for about one quart of gasoline at today’s prices, while the silver dollar will pay for well over five gallons. I explained to my audience that consumer prices are not high – the paper dollar has lost most of its value. It makes no difference how high the price of gasoline goes, a silver dollar will continue to buy gas for 20 cents a gallon, exactly the price gas was during the Great Depression. Based on 1940 prices, a paper dollar is worth about two pennies.

Today in America, we are being systematically robbed of our property because we have allowed the Federal Reserve to flood our banks with fiat, worthless paper money. There is actually a law against paper money but nobody seems to know about it. The Supreme law of the land is the US Constitution, which stated in Article I Section 10: Individual states are “not allowed to make any things but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts.” The Constitution also states that “Congress has the power to COIN money and regulate the value thereof.” Our Founding Fathers knew how a central bank printing paper money would collapse our economy. Had we followed the US Constitution to the full letter of the law, gasoline would still be 20 cents a gallon. As the dollar continues to lose value we say our currency has lost its purchasing power. It should be more properly referred to as embezzlement by the banking industry.

Robert Kahre owns a family business and instead of using paper money he paid his workers with gold and silver coins minted by the United States government. He paid them based on the “face value” of the coins. If he paid a worker a dollar an hour he paid with a silver dollar, which states on the coin that it is “one dollar” regardless of today’s value. His wages were so low that he didn’t have to file W-2 income tax forms or withhold taxes or pay workman’s comp. This upset the IRS, which charged him and his family with 161 federal tax crimes.

The case which was tried before a Las Vegas jury in a Federal Court, heard testimony for almost four months. Defendants believed they had no legal obligation to withhold, pay income taxes or report anything to the government because the “face value” of the gold and silver coins is so small as to fall beneath the reporting thresholds set by the Internal Revenue Code. The government argued that the payments in gold and silver US coins must be considered at their bullion, full-market value when considering the worth of the wages for purposes of the IRS code. The essence of the argument is that Congress is obligated by law to mint and circulate such coins as demand requires, and must establish the value of coins as they are used as legal tender, but a coin’s market value is a distinct, separate attribute of such coins and is of no legal consequence if the coins are used as legal tender. If a worker is paid with such coins, his taxable income can only be the face value indicated on the coin. “A coin dollar is worth no more for the purposes of tender in payment of an ordinary debt than a note dollar. The law has not made the note a standard of value anymore than coin. It is true that in the market, as an article of merchandise, one is of greater value than the other; but as money, as a medium of exchange, the law knows no difference between them.”

The matter of whether the coin made of silver/gold is valued according to it's face value/legal tender price or it's "market value" (i.e. spot price of metal content) is not clear as the IRS can interpret the matter any way it chooses. There is no rule of law in modern day America. If there were, an ASE would have a legal tender price of $1. There's no way the IRS mob will let you get away with purchases using that $1 face value - no way the bastards will give up their vig.

[po boy]

Doc it is laid out in the US code an SAE is a dollar.


§ 5103. Legal tender
How Current is This?
United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.


and

§ 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
How Current is This?
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams.
(3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams.
(4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams.
(5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
(6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold.
(8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold.
(9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold.
(11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold.

(f) Silver Coins.—
(1) Sale price.— The Secretary shall sell the coins minted under subsection (e) to the public at a price equal to the market value of the bullion at the time of sale, plus the cost of minting, marketing, and distributing such coins (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, and promotional and overhead expenses).
(2) Bulk sales.— The Secretary shall make bulk sales of the coins minted under subsection (e) at a reasonable discount.
(3) Numismatic items.— For purposes of section 5132 (a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under subsection (e) shall be considered to be numismatic items.
(g) For purposes of section 5132 (a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under subsection (e) of this section shall be considered to be numismatic items.
(h) The coins issued under this title shall be legal tender as provided in section 5103 of this title.


From Franklin Sanders the Money Changer:http://the-moneychanger.com/numismatic_files/coin_con.phtml

........CASH REPORTING QUIRK

Cash reporting, as opposed to broker reporting, is a hog of a different color. Cash reporting requires certain entities to report receiving "cash" in amounts greater than F$10,000 (or F$3,000 in some circumstances). For this purpose, the government isn't interested whether you are buying precious metals or fertilizer, only that you plunked down "cash".

The cash reporting requirements of 26 United States Code 6050-I supposedly have companion regulations at 26 CFR Part 1, Section 6050-I-1(c)(7)(i). But note that the word "cash" has a special definition in this law. In a December 30, 1993 letter, the IRS Assistant Chief Counsel for Income Tax & Accounting Vincent Cardella wrote to the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA) as follows:

Section 1.6050I-1(c)(1) of the Treasury Regulations defines the term "cash," in part, to include the coin and currency of the United States or of any other country, which circulate in and are customarily used and accepted as money in the country in which issued. The term `cash' does not include [sic] bullion coins, such as gold bullion coins issued under the Gold Bullion Act of 1965 [sic], 99 Stat, 1117 [sic], nor does it include commemorative coins, such as coins issued under the Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Commemorative Coin Act, 99 Stat. 113 (1985) [The American Liberty Coin Act].

But gold and silver American Eagles are legal tender. Crazy as it sounds, this means that you could walk into a Mercedes dealership, plunk down 201 American Eagle gold coins with a face value of $10,050 and a paper money value of F$80,400, and it wouldn't be a reportable transaction. Wait, kids, don't try this at home. Repeat: even though the IRS Assistant Chief Counsel says so, don't rely on it. But it certainly appears that there is a hole in the cash transaction reporting laws big enough to drive a 747 Jumbo Jet through. The simple way to avoid (not evade) cash reporting is to use American Eagle gold coins & silver American Eagles in everyday transactions.

Crazier still, since Customs is a part of Treasury, do you suppose that American Eagle gold coins are exempt from reporting as cash when you leave the country?

Of course it's crazy, but it's the government, shooting themselves in the toe. They hate gold & silver, and just because they want to discourage people from using it, they write it out of their regulations, but only succeed in making gold and silver more private than their phony paper money.

-- Franklin Sanders

Special thanks to the Industry Council for Tangible Assets, the trade association for gold and silver dealers for help researching this article. ICTA has done a great job over the years fighting off Big Brother, and every precious metals dealer ought to join and support them. ICTA, Box 1365, Severna Park, Maryland 21146-8365.

[gunDriller]

so at what point in the video does Ron Paul ask the question ?

[Cebu_4_2]

so at what point in the video does Ron Paul ask the question ?

It's a 5 minute video man

[po boy]

so at what point in the video does Ron Paul ask the question ?

4':58.50" "Do you think gold is money?"

[Son-of-Liberty]

Bernanke was scared shitless. You could hear his voice wavering the whole time he spoke like even he didn't believe the crap coming out of his mouth.

[Joe King]

Crazy as it sounds, this means that you could walk into a Mercedes dealership, plunk down 201 American Eagle gold coins with a face value of $10,050 and a paper money value of F$80,400, and it wouldn't be a reportable transaction. Wait, kids, don't try this at home.

You're right about the last part. Do not try that at home unless you want big trouble.

To spend those GAEs as "money" you would need to have the $80,400 in face value. Which would mean you would need 1,608 of them to "buy" that car at the advertised price of $80,400.

If you use 201 0f them, it would be based upon the gold content alone. Gold by weight is not "money".


As far as the house goes, same thing applies.


It's like this. An SAE has a $1frn face value if spent at the store. A GAE has a $50frn face value if spent at the store. Goods are priced in FRNs.
They have to take it as it is considered legal tender, but only at face value.

Now if you make a side deal with the merchant to sell him the coin at market value in exchange for goods or services, you didn't spend it as "money". You bartered with it.

[po boy]

Joe I didn't write that Franklin Sanders did.

States cannot impede contracts, you offer $201 silver dollars rather than FRN and the other party accepts, you still paid $201 as per the code.
GAE and SAE are legal tender.
Now if you cash those SAE in you would owe capital gains taxes.

http://www.newswithviews.com/brownfield/brownfield67.htm
SILVER, GOLD AND THE IRS



By Derry Brownfield
June 15, 2008

NewsWithViews.com

I began a recent presentation before a large group of cattle producers (R-CALFUSA) by showing a paper dollar bill and a silver coin. The words “one dollar” is inscribed on both the coin and the paper, yet the paper dollar will only pay for about one quart of gasoline at today’s prices, while the silver dollar will pay for well over five gallons. I explained to my audience that consumer prices are not high – the paper dollar has lost most of its value. It makes no difference how high the price of gasoline goes, a silver dollar will continue to buy gas for 20 cents a gallon, exactly the price gas was during the Great Depression. Based on 1940 prices, a paper dollar is worth about two pennies.

Today in America, we are being systematically robbed of our property because we have allowed the Federal Reserve to flood our banks with fiat, worthless paper money. There is actually a law against paper money but nobody seems to know about it. The Supreme law of the land is the US Constitution, which stated in Article I Section 10: Individual states are “not allowed to make any things but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts.” The Constitution also states that “Congress has the power to COIN money and regulate the value thereof.” Our Founding Fathers knew how a central bank printing paper money would collapse our economy. Had we followed the US Constitution to the full letter of the law, gasoline would still be 20 cents a gallon. As the dollar continues to lose value we say our currency has lost its purchasing power. It should be more properly referred to as embezzlement by the banking industry.

Robert Kahre owns a family business and instead of using paper money he paid his workers with gold and silver coins minted by the United States government. He paid them based on the “face value” of the coins. If he paid a worker a dollar an hour he paid with a silver dollar, which states on the coin that it is “one dollar” regardless of today’s value. His wages were so low that he didn’t have to file W-2 income tax forms or withhold taxes or pay workman’s comp. This upset the IRS, which charged him and his family with 161 federal tax crimes.

The case which was tried before a Las Vegas jury in a Federal Court, heard testimony for almost four months. Defendants believed they had no legal obligation to withhold, pay income taxes or report anything to the government because the “face value” of the gold and silver coins is so small as to fall beneath the reporting thresholds set by the Internal Revenue Code. The government argued that the payments in gold and silver US coins must be considered at their bullion, full-market value when considering the worth of the wages for purposes of the IRS code. The essence of the argument is that Congress is obligated by law to mint and circulate such coins as demand requires, and must establish the value of coins as they are used as legal tender, but a coin’s market value is a distinct, separate attribute of such coins and is of no legal consequence if the coins are used as legal tender. If a worker is paid with such coins, his taxable income can only be the face value indicated on the coin. “A coin dollar is worth no more for the purposes of tender in payment of an ordinary debt than a note dollar. The law has not made the note a standard of value anymore than coin. It is true that in the market, as an article of merchandise, one is of greater value than the other; but as money, as a medium of exchange, the law knows no difference between them.”

On September 17, the jury returned its verdict refusing to convict all nine defendants of any of the 161 federal tax crimes they had been charged with. One would think, “we the tax payers would want to hear that the IRS was defeated by the use of the true money.” To my knowledge, the results of this trial were never printed or broadcast by any of the major news media. Three days after the trial’s conclusion, the Las Vegas Review Journal ran its first and last story about the outcome and then only because of public pressure from interested parties who attended the trial.

[Joe King]

You are correct that if I pay you $1 an hour in SAEs at there $1 face value, it is not taxable if it falls below the reporting threshold.

But when you convert them to their actual FRN value so that you may receive goods and services at their full value based on metal content, it then becomes taxable again. Can you say "capital gains"?

Or are you also going to spend those SAEs at the store for face value? ie $1
Are you really willing to work an hour for that dollar if you can only spend it yourself as a $1frn equilivant? After all, that's how you got paid.

Also, don't forget that to be able to pay you your $1 an hour wage, I first have to purchase those SAEs at full market value in order to pay you with them at face value. Which means I take a huge, non-taxdeductable loss just to be able to show that you received less than the required reporting amount for your work.
That'd be asking a lot of most employers.

[po boy]

You are correct that if I pay you $1 an hour in SAEs at there $1 face value, it is not taxable if it falls below the reporting threshold.

But when you convert them to their actual FRN value so that you may receive goods and services at their full value based on metal content, it then becomes taxable again. Can you say "capital gains"?

Or are you also going to spend those SAEs at the store for face value? ie $1
Are you really willing to work an hour for that dollar if you can only spend it yourself as a $1frn equilivant? After all, that's how you got paid.

Also, don't forget that to be able to pay you your $1 an hour wage, I first have to purchase those SAEs at full market value in order to pay you with them at face value. Which means I take a huge, non-taxdeductable loss just to be able to show that you received less than the required reporting amount for your work.
That'd be asking a lot of most employers.

You would not write off the purchase as a cost of doing business?
All the deductions I took were based on what I paid for the item not what I thought is was worth,only one comes with a receipt.
The purchase of the dollar is different than what I pay help.I lost on the dollar purchase and paid the worker both may come with deductions.

[Joe King]

Again, are you the worker going to spend the $1 SAE at face value in a store for $1 of goods? If so, then you are 100% correct. No taxes.
Or are you going to sell it for metal content in order to buy...lets see what is right now....... $38.19 worth of goods that are priced in frn dollars? If so, congratulations! You just became liable for taxes on that amount. Assuming of course that you are in fact a card carrying member of the Civil State.

As for the employer taking a deduction on the loss, are you saying that the IRS would allow that as a deduction? Or that you think they would allow it?

[po boy]

I'm saying I spent 38.15 FRN for a dollar and paid a dollar for contracted help. If paid less than 38.15 in whatever domination I'd call that a loss.

[Joe King]

So assuming the employer is ok taking the $37.15 loss as well as assuming the irs allows it, how do you as the employee spend it without selling it first?
Or are you ok with trading an hour of your labor for what amounts to a pack of bubbleyum?


See, I think the employee will go sell the SAEs he receives and then go spend the full metal value on things at the store, or pay his bills with. The electric company certainly won't take it for anything more than a dollar frn.

[Horn]

Bernanke was speaking like the Fed was finished when he was orating that history piece on it.

[po boy]

So assuming the employer is ok taking the $37.15 loss as well as assuming the irs allows it, how do you as the employee spend it without selling it first?
Or are you ok with trading an hour of your labor for what amounts to a pack of bubbleyum?


See, I think the employee will go sell the SAEs he receives and then go spend the full metal value on things at the store, or pay his bills with. The electric company certainly won't take it for anything more than a dollar frn.

joe what would the tax man be allowing if there was nothing to file?
If you worked for dollars would you buy gum with them?
The world got along without employment and income and it will again.Before that there was gold,silver and contracts.
Can you buy stuff outside the store?
It may be an inconvenience but it is little bother as apposed to tyranny wouldn't you say?
Besides silver doesn't have FRN written on it and the pyramid is upside down on the back as well, I just love that one.

[Joe King]

So you're asking people to quit their jobs and go in search of someone else to work for who will buy GAEs and SAEs with their FRNs in order to simply help the worker not meet the reporting requirement?
...and then you're asking them to also quit getting any of the stuff they need to live, at a store? You might as well be asking most people to go live on the Moon or something.

Most people today work for corporations who won't even talk to prospective hires who don't have a SS#
So good luck in trying to educate them to the point that they are willing to pay you in gold.


Where do you get your food?

[palani]

I deal only with principals myself. I find it is a good policy.


As a general rule, whatever a man do by himself, except in virtue of a delegated authority, he may do by an agent.

As a principal among other principals another personal policy is to allow only gold or silver as consideration for contracts.

Agents are easy to spot because the lawform they practice is pretending that FRNs are money of exchange when actually FRNs are only money of account used internally within the Federal Reserve Banking system.

Let agents deal with agents. They do not do so in my name.

[palani]

Congress (by 12 USC 411) has cast themselves in the role of master. By the rule qui facit per alium facit per se they have elected for themselves the sole responsibility of any liability resulting from use of FRNs.


By master is also understood a principal who employs another to perform some act or do something for him. The law having adopted the maxim of the civil law, qui facit per alium facit per se; the agent is but an instrument, and the master is civilly responsible for the act of his agent, as if it were his own, when he either commands him to do an act, or puts him in a condition, of which such act is a result, or by the absence of due care and control, either previously in the choice of his agent, or immediately in the act itself, negligently suffers him to do an injury.


Qui facit per alium facit per se. He who acts by or through another, acts for himself. 1 Bl. Com. 429; Story, Ag. 440; 2 Bouv. Inst. n. 1273, 1335, 1336; 7 Man. & Gr. 32, 33.


Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized.

The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

[po boy]

So you're asking people to quit their jobs and go in search of someone else to work for who will buy GAEs and SAEs with their FRNs in order to simply help the worker not meet the reporting requirement?
...and then you're asking them to also quit getting any of the stuff they need to live, at a store? You might as well be asking most people to go live on the Moon or something.

Most people today work for corporations who won't even talk to prospective hires who don't have a SS#
So good luck in trying to educate them to the point that they are willing to pay you in gold.


Where do you get your food?

Not at all employment is on the rise as is the standard of living.
People want al-ciada,endless wars, politicians who will take care of every thing, all wonderful benefits of using FRN and the show must go on! When it doesn't whatever will they do!
Seems to me a neat little solution is right in front of them but alas it may require some wheeling and dealing.
I highly doubt that a local farmer would entertain selling food for silver don't try,besides he probably doesn't vaccinate his animals.
Many that have silver and gold and are waiting for the sthtf to spend it, i wonder where are they going to do that?
I guess will have to wait to find out when the FED or the country collapse. Will there be lots of street vendors.
I guess mountain house will have to do during the interim?
I am not asking anyone to buy sell and trade with property(aka Silver Gold) just sharing ideas of how things may have worked before FRN.
Take a guess who got the SAE and GAE rolling out of the mint again.Hint: he's a kook too.

[Joe King]

Po Boy, so how do people implement it their lives, now?

In over 20 years, I've not found anyone willing to pay in gold coin for work performed. Not even once, let alone on a regularly scheduled basis like most people need in order to be be able to keep their bills paid.


As far as whatever will they do when the show fails to go on? They'll come steal what they need from those who prepared. That's what.