Government incompetence, disfunctionality, and self-servitude

[Sparky]

Most everybody here has recognized these traits for a long time. But what I see going on now is a broad exposure to the general public. In the past, most of this has been brushed under the rug because 1) they are good deceivers, 2) they contain impact to isolated segments of society so that there is no organized revolt, and 3) they've controlled information via the media.

This debt ceiling issue, which is fairly trivial in reality, has begun to make all sides look like damn fools to the general public. It's gotten so blatant that even the blindest sheep in the flock must be thinking "WTF is going on?!?" I see NO winners, democrat or republican, which is a beautiful thing really.

This is all compounded by the fact that the internet allows for the deception to be exposed, and the fact that the younger generation is comfortable gaining information and developing their perceptions based on information from the internet. With each passing year, the deception game gets harder and harder. It's not accident they now want to control the internet.

Never in my life have I seen so many "mainstream" people fed up with both sides of government, and recognizing they're being misled. It's easy to tell who are the remaining idiotic sheep: they are those who are still playing the Obama-versus-Bush blame game. More and more people are catching on. They will be taking revolutionary action (in some form) over the next ten years as the Millennial Generation (those born after 1981) comes of age.

[Golden]

By "they" do you mean to say "we"?

[Sparky]

By "they" do you mean to say "we"?

I say "they", because it will require a larger outcry from the masses to invoke a change. "We" will be taking part once there are enough of "them" on board. "They" (those born after 1981) will be leading the charge as they reach an age at which they can exert political power. It's hard to do that when you are 25.

[Sparky]

Here are the ages of some key founding fathers at the time of the original 1773 Boston Tea Party, which was when the American Revolution first got a foothold:

Thomas Jefferson, 30
John Adams, 38
George Washington, 41
Paul Revere, 38
Benjamin Franklin, 67
John Hancock, 36
Sam Adams, 51
Thomas Paine, 37
James Madison 22
Ethan Allen, 35
Patrick Henry, 37
George Mason, 48
John Jay, 28

[Hatha Sunahara]

Hey, Sparky here's the bottom line on government stupidity and corruption:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP3Sfnp_ehw



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1BVYpNkk-A

Hatha

[po boy]

Here are the ages of some key founding fathers at the time of the original 1773 Boston Tea Party, which was when the American Revolution first got a foothold:

Thomas Jefferson, 30
John Adams, 38
George Washington, 41
Paul Revere, 38
Benjamin Franklin, 67
John Hancock, 36
Sam Adams, 51
Thomas Paine, 37
James Madison 22
Ethan Allen, 35
Patrick Henry, 37
George Mason, 48
John Jay, 28

I don't know any TJs today in that age bracket that are running for office, and even in the age of the interwebs there is so much disinformation the amount of monetary history and law to learn is a daunting challenge for the youth of America today.

I hope they're up for one hell of a challenge.

[Golden]

Outcry to the courts? Your selling hope. We bought that in 08. This is the digital age. Now would you get back in the boat your gonna drown!

[Sparky]

I don't know any TJs today in that age bracket that are running for office, and even in the age of the interwebs there is so much disinformation the amount of monetary history and law to learn is a daunting challenge for the youth of America today.

I hope they're up for one hell of a challenge.

That's my point; group that's going to shake the system hasn't matured into the role yet, but they will see through the disinformation the same way WE are able to. I think there are some 20- and 30-somethings out there right now that are going to surprise you in about 10 years. It will take a crisis in full bloom for them to emerge, and we're not there yet.

[Joe King]

If the actual TJ was running for office today, he'd never get elected.

[Sparky]

If the actual TJ was running for office today, he'd never get elected.

The actual TJ didn't run for office and get elected until AFTER the revolution had already begun.

[Joe King]

Are you talking about having a Revolution? Or fixing things without a Revolution?

When you spoke of a..."larger outcry from the masses to invoke a change", that, IMHO would be sufficient to affect change from within.

TJs Revolution did not have a majority participating in it, nor did it even enjoy majority support, at least as far as I've ever heard. Least not 'til it was obvious who would win.

[Sparky]

Are you talking about having a Revolution? Or fixing things without a Revolution?

When you spoke of a..."larger outcry from the masses to invoke a change", that, IMHO would be sufficient to affect change from within.

TJs Revolution did not have a majority participating in it, nor did it even enjoy majority support, at least as far as I've ever heard. Least not 'til it was obvious who would win.

I'm talking about a revolution of sorts, but I'm not sure how it will play out; it may be a combination of political and physical (not necessarily violent). For instance, there could be organized cooperation for withholding taxes that gains widespread support, with protesters willing to go to jail to clog the legal system; this is a physical revolution outside the current system, but not violent.

TJs revolution had support of the masses. A small group taking action can be brave and successful if there is moral support behind it. A tax revolution by only 25% of the population could be successful if the remaining 75% tacitly approve, even if they do not participate.

I'm just using taxation as an example; it could be something completely different, e.g. related to liberty rather than finances. I'm just anticipating some type of turmoil or upheaval in the next 5-15 years that will knock the current system on its ear as it falls into crisis, and it will be led by the Millenial Generation, who know they are being set up to ultimately take the brunt of our massive deficit spending.

Once they reach the age of typical ascent to authority and assertiveness (30s and 40s), the fireworks will start. The older generations will probably split between GSUS-types who will support their leadership, and the welfare-dependent recipients who will resist them. When the politicians see that their support has shifted to a minority, the upheaval will lead to change.

[Joe King]

Things would have to get a lot worse before you'll see tax revolts on a mass scale here. Least not involving federal taxes. People are still too afraid of "the man". They'd have to have virtually nothing to lose.
...but yea, at some point in the future, no doubt. And I agree that the up and coming generation will be the ones to bear the brunt of it because the debt problem is coming down on their shoulders.

Not to mention that theirs lines up with the approx 80 year cycle between great societal upheavals we seem to have going in this country. Hopefully another TJ type will rise to the top at the time.

[Mouse]

How do you have a tax revolt when 90% pay in advance more than they owe and want their check back? Or, rather, 90% pay in squat and get that and more in their refund? You get a revolution of the 5% that actually do shit and run this place, versus the poor and the elites. Good luck with that. Put fork in it and default is the only solution.

[Book]

Outcry to the courts? Your selling hope. We bought that in 08. This is the digital age. Now would you get back in the boat you're gonna drown!



HUDSON: I think it’s evil working with evil. I think the whole argument in Congress is a charade that was pretty much set up two years ago, when the Obama administration first took office and Mr. Obama appointed the reduction commission of Republican Senator Simpson and Clinton manager Bowles. When Mr. Obama went on television two days ago, he said he’s hoping to reach a compromise, which is pretty much what this commission said. And the people he appointed to the commission to head it were the people who said, number one, cut back Social Security. If you have to choose between paying Social Security and Wall Street, pay our clients, Wall Street. And secondly, cut back Medicare. But most especially, cut back Medicaid to the poor. You have to give money to the job creators, mainly the financial managers who are closing down firms, downsizing, and outsizing–outsourcing on labor. They’re called job creators instead of–to the people who actually get work and spend money on goods and services, which is what’s keeping the market going in business.

http://michael-hudson.com/2011/07/obamas-debt-ceiling-doublespeak/

I agree. Selling hope. Our demise is obviously intentional and planned. Gen X gets the bill.

[po boy]

How do you have a tax revolt when 90% pay in advance more than they owe and want their check back? Or, rather, 90% pay in squat and get that and more in their refund? You get a revolution of the 5% that actually do shit and run this place, versus the poor and the elites. Good luck with that. Put fork in it and default is the only solution.

By spreading the message of private contracts paid in real money?No revolution just payment instead of discharge.

[po boy]

HUDSON: I think it’s evil working with evil. I think the whole argument in Congress is a charade that was pretty much set up two years ago, when the Obama administration first took office and Mr. Obama appointed the reduction commission of Republican Senator Simpson and Clinton manager Bowles. When Mr. Obama went on television two days ago, he said he’s hoping to reach a compromise, which is pretty much what this commission said. And the people he appointed to the commission to head it were the people who said, number one, cut back Social Security. If you have to choose between paying Social Security and Wall Street, pay our clients, Wall Street. And secondly, cut back Medicare. But most especially, cut back Medicaid to the poor. You have to give money to the job creators, mainly the financial managers who are closing down firms, downsizing, and outsizing–outsourcing on labor. They’re called job creators instead of–to the people who actually get work and spend money on goods and services, which is what’s keeping the market going in business.

http://michael-hudson.com/2011/07/obamas-debt-ceiling-doublespeak/

I agree. Selling hope. Our demise is obviously intentional and planned. Gen X gets the bill.

Hopefully the young bucks will not look for employment and will produce work without the aid of congress.

[Neuro]

How do you have a tax revolt when 90% pay in advance more than they owe and want their check back? Or, rather, 90% pay in squat and get that and more in their refund? You get a revolution of the 5% that actually do shit and run this place, versus the poor and the elites. Good luck with that. Put fork in it and default is the only solution.
Good points! It is enough if you get say 25% of the 5% who actually do things worthwhile and valueadding to take away their support to society, and you will get a rather quick demise of the parasite (society).

[Joe King]

Hopefully the young bucks will not look for employment and will produce work without the aid of congress.They probably will once the crash happens and all the jobs people currently have, go away.

Until then, the average is going to do whatever they have to, in order to try to keep what little they've currently got.

As far as getting the message out about private contracts, I agree and am all for that, but the education part is gonna take a loonng time. Especially when the only thing most people will believe about stuff like that is what the gov tells them.
Who is going to educate them? You? They're certainly not going to do it themselves and the gov has no interest in doing so.
Remember, we're talking about the average here.

[LastResort]

This is all compounded by the fact that the internet allows for the deception to be exposed, and the fact that the younger generation is comfortable gaining information and developing their perceptions based on information from the internet.


I find the younger generation around my age (mid 20's) generally seem to have a more open minded to different ideas in general.

I found that 4 or 5 years ago when I was started to learn how the game really works and I actually was trying to wake other people up, that people my age were more receptive to the ideas I was bringing forth.

I was up at the the hunt camp 3 years ago with my highschool friend. Now this camp is primarily a dozen guys each year three of which are around my age the rest are all in their 50's and 60's. Anyways we were playing cards the one night and the old boys were bashing the government about some unimportant crap in the grand scheme of things. They went on to talking about the wars in the middle east on terror etc. My drunk ass decided to try and give these old basterds a lesson.....LOL Nice try on my behalf. The first thing my buddys dad says is well where did you learn that? I said oh you can read all about it on the web...... They pretty much all jumped on me " well anybody can put crap on the internet" blah blah blah.... I was like thats right anybody can put INFO on the web its the only non censored free flowing source of info left out there....

Long story short the 6 p.m. news is the final authority for alot of people in their 40s, 50s, 60s I find. There obviously are alot of exeptions to the rule though and I hate to generalize.

I've also found with the older generations there seems to be the "well thats just always the way its been" type attitude. On the flip side though when I get into discussions with really older types like my grandfather (70's) they seem quite wise to all the nonsense going on and will mostly agree 100% with me, and even give me additional food for thought.

[po boy]

They probably will once the crash happens and all the jobs people currently have, go away.

Until then, the average is going to do whatever they have to, in order to try to keep what little they've currently got.

As far as getting the message out about private contracts, I agree and am all for that, but the education part is gonna take a loonng time. Especially when the only thing most people will believe about stuff like that is what the gov tells them.
Who is going to educate them? You? They're certainly not going to do it themselves and the gov has no interest in doing so.
Remember, we're talking about the average here.

You are right about people being slow to come around.I talk real money to people all the time and most used to dismiss it.In the last couple years the reception to these old ideas is starting to click.I think hope and change is wearing thin as job prospects.
I used to carry a peace dollar around and would get blank stares now I can't keep them.
If anything I'll keep planting seeds some may sprout some won't but, it's better than nothing.

[Golden]

Peer amid revolution far as the eye can see.

I'm ignored on purpose and that is acceptable.

I'll leave you with a quote I came across that struck a chord and continues to resonate.

"Nano-technology has rendered you an I surplus to requirements."

[DMac]

People are just as deaf, dumb, blind and ignorant as they have always been. The revolution will not happen. If (or when) the US defaults a new war will begin. The potential energy needed to ignite positive change will be funneled wherever "they" want it to go.

Not until the people of the world realize they are all slaves to the power hierarchy (the masters) will they actually tear off their chains.

What is needed in a slave revolt. An old fashioned uprising.

[Joe King]

You are right about people being slow to come around.I talk real money to people all the time and most used to dismiss it.In the last couple years the reception to these old ideas is starting to click.I think hope and change is wearing thin as job prospects.
I used to carry a peace dollar around and would get blank stares now I can't keep them.
If anything I'll keep planting seeds some may sprout some won't but, it's better than nothing.I actually agree with what you're saying and try to do the same myself. Perhaps because I've been doing that for the past 20+ years with mostly the blank stare result you mentioned, or even hostility from time to time, I am a bit jaded about trying to really open others eyes to any of this stuff unless they actually seem interested after I've broached the subject.

Although I must say it is getting better, but as long as life is livable for the average, they're not going to want to change anything.
Which is the same reason the PTB can't implement their more radical ideas without inducing a crash of some sort or other in order to demand the change. They're going to show the people that their way just doesn't work anymore.