Worst range report evar

[Mouse]

It's flat embarrassing. Let me know if you have ideas on this and WTF. I am just going to shoot the crap out of these little mofo's tomorrow and then if it's that bad they are getting a call-in to the company.

So....we got a couple Kel-tec Pf-9's in. One of our neighbors had one, had good things to say about it. Did all the intarweb researches and didn't see any thing too bad. We got around to "breaking them in" today and it was not pleasant.

When we picked them up our FFL guy who also runs around with a couple kel-tecs said that he had no problems using winchester target ammo and that the protective rounds really depend and just get something that works in the gun. He said he hadn't ever had to fluff n buff one.

We go out to burn these things in and it was a complete death sentence. I can't tell you all enough to make sure you train.....haha

So we get all loaded up, wife runs a mag through one of the guns no problem. I run a mag through one no problem. Wife goes to run another mag and it FTE on the first round. She can't clear it. She is like WTF looking at me. I go look at it and the frigging mag IS STUCK and cannot be removed. I am sitting here with live ammo trying to clear what is becoming a more and more dangerous situation. We gave up on that gun and set it safely aside.

I run another one through the other gun and no problems. She takes that gun and on the third shot jams. Cannot clear, cannot do anything but throw the damn gun and run away. Death sentence. I go to help her and the damn mag will NOT release from the jam.

I take both the jammed ass guns into the garage and had to use a screwdriver to pry the fukushima mags out and clear. One was a FTE the other was a fail to ramp. I am japanese style pissed at this point.

I am going out tomorrow to shoot the crap out of these guns and see what happens to me (they never failed once in my hands) and to see if I can figure out what kind of mods need to be made to make these things usable. It's bad enough if you get a fail but if you cannot drop and clear you are dead. It's absolutely unacceptable. Cannot clear without a fing tool and shop at your disposal.

So....I was thinking the wife was fat thumbing and was dropping the mag when she pulled the trigger, causing the fail. I didn't have any failure in my shooting. Or limp wristing, she was hitting low right consistently. These little guns are hard to shoot, but really?

A gun that fails and cannot be cleared, cannot be carried. I am going to post more after I get more bullet to fail to feed or maybe go down range.

Pissed.

[Gaillo]

Similar experiences to relate Re: my former Kel-Tec P11... the first 4 or 5 boxes of cartridges pretty much CONVINCED me the thing was a COMPLETE P.O.S... jams, misfeeds, and a SIB (Stuck in Battery) round where I needed to take the "gun" home and apply nearly every tool in my machine shop to finally clear the chamber and make it "function" again. I liked the "feel" of the gun, the compact size, and the low weight (not to mention, but I will anyway, the Low-Low price!) - so I wasn't quite willing to give up completely on it though - but I'll tell you, I was PISSED at that point.

Then something strange happened... the damned thing just started to WORK... and keep on working. No hickups of any kind. I couldn't get it to fail to fire, eject, chamber, or anything else! After all the problems, I wanted to sell it so bad that I was looking for ANY excuse - but it wouldn't give me one. I learned later from a good friend (and gunsmith...) that what I experienced is not out of the ordinary for Kel-Tec pistols - they take some breaking in then they just do what a gun's supposed to, and do it well.

I sold that gun a 3 or 4 years later, after a few thousand more trouble-free rounds... and I still miss it.

Damn you, Kel-Tec... I don't know what more to say. Just damn you.

[undgrd]

500 is the typical break in. I expect a few problems within 500. If I can not run 500 rounds through without a problem after the break in, it CAN NOT be a defensive weapon for me. Can't trust my life to something that is going to stove pipe when I really NEED it to work.

Get 500 through and evaluate.

PS: First thing I thought of when you said she managed to jam both was limp wrist.

[big country]

My wifes G17 stove piped twice in the first 100 rounds that we fed through it. The only time it has happened since was when we were letting our Pastors son shoot it (hes 9) and he couldn't hold it tight and limp wristed.

Just gotta get those little guys broken in. I usually rack the slide on all new guns (by hand) about 500 times just to get it nice and smooth. It clears up any small burrs etc that may be on the rail where the slide...slides. I'm not convinced that it sets the spring any, but the friction caused smooths the slide. Worth a try. I did it when watching a movie.

[mightymanx]

The Keltec "trick" I have discovered is load one round short during breakin and shoot the hell out of it till it loosens up. They are very tight on the tolerances and need a break in period much more than the regular pistol.

Some might need a touch up on the feed ramp to be happy with hollowpoints.

[Mouse]

Will try these tips. thanks! Didn't get to her today, too dang hot!

[SWRichmond]

This is not a recommendation. This is what I do.

My habit with a new semiauto pistol (that is intended for fighting use) is to completely disassemble it before even trying to shoot it. I then:
1. Very thoroughly clean and inspect it. I pay special attention to fit and surface finish of any rubbing / sliding parts. I consider this a "value added" step that manufacturers cannot afford to do or they would price themselves out of the market, as the time required turns a $400 handgun into a $900 handgun.
2. Frequently I find burrs, rough edges (swirl marks from cutting tools) etc on surfaces that have to slide on one another. This is just plain bad for obvious reasons. I very very very carefully knock off high spots on these tool marks and very gently remove any left over burrs etc. In order to do this you have to know how the gun functions so you don't remove any important metal. I use a flat, very fine grit polishing stone to go over any flat sliding surfaces and a jeweler's file to remove burrs. LESS IS MORE when doing this. I am polishing, not changing manufacturing tolerances. If you leave these burrs on and rely on shooting to remove them, they cause corresponding gouges on their mating surface.
3. Being something of an amateur 1911 mechanic, I polish feed ramps (they always need it), check extractor tension, inspect magazine fit and check magazine release tension.
4. I absolutely avoid short-action semis because they are pushing the envelope of reliability. When you compress the available operating space into such a small package, timing becomes very critical and any stress-induced limp-wristing, slight changes in grip / magazine / feed lip geometry (manufacturing tolerances and magazine manufacturing and condition), spring tension / wear, or dirt / drag effects will fuck it up. Why would you do this in a fighting gun? I'll never understand it.

[Mouse]

This is not a recommendation. This is what I do.

My habit with a new semiauto pistol (that is intended for fighting use) is to completely disassemble it before even trying to shoot it. I then:
1. Very thoroughly clean and inspect it. I pay special attention to fit and surface finish of any rubbing / sliding parts. I consider this a "value added" step that manufacturers cannot afford to do or they would price themselves out of the market, as the time required turns a $400 handgun into a $900 handgun.
2. Frequently I find burrs, rough edges (swirl marks from cutting tools) etc on surfaces that have to slide on one another. This is just plain bad for obvious reasons. I very very very carefully knock off high spots on these tool marks and very gently remove any left over burrs etc. In order to do this you have to know how the gun functions so you don't remove any important metal. I use a flat, very fine grit polishing stone to go over any flat sliding surfaces and a jeweler's file to remove burrs. LESS IS MORE when doing this. I am polishing, not changing manufacturing tolerances. If you leave these burrs on and rely on shooting to remove them, they cause corresponding gouges on their mating surface.
3. Being something of an amateur 1911 mechanic, I polish feed ramps (they always need it), check extractor tension, inspect magazine fit and check magazine release tension.
4. I absolutely avoid short-action semis because they are pushing the envelope of reliability. When you compress the available operating space into such a small package, timing becomes very critical and any stress-induced limp-wristing, slight changes in grip / magazine / feed lip geometry (manufacturing tolerances and magazine manufacturing and condition), spring tension / wear, or dirt / drag effects will fuck it up. Why would you do this in a fighting gun? I'll never understand it.

that treatment is what I would call a Fluff n buff. Basically do all the fine detail that the manufacturer should have done. I can't speak to the rest of what you said, but it makes sense that you are pushing hard on reliability when downsizing something that small. All my other handguns were easy break-ins with only a couple fails during initial 200 rounds and no more problems, or came surplus and already been exercised.