Gold Confiscation Act in the Works I just received information from an inside source

[Serpo]

Paul Drockton

I just received information from an inside source that they are in fact writing the legislation for a new gold confiscation act. I expect this to happen this fall. Here is how I see things playing out:


1. Executive Order, signed by Obama, that makes the ownership of gold a criminal offense.


2. Those that own gold will be instructed to surrender it in exchange for a set dollar amount.


3. Gold Confiscation will be sold to the general public as a necessary step to stabilizing the dollar and a return to the gold standard.


4. Ownership of gold will be sold as "unpatriotic" and "anti-American".


5. The act will be enforced by the United States Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service.



The Satanic Psychopaths have stolen our homes, our jobs and our life savings, placing many Americans on the receiving end of a government check. Those that they control through our tax dollars, and those that work for the Federal government will embrace this legislation. They will see it as a way to continue their current source of income.


The Satanists also use jealousy and class warfare as their favorite weapon. Gold owners will be treated as "domestic terrorists" that want to bring down the United States economy.


As I have said repeatedly. Sell your gold and buy silver.

http://www.moneyteachers.org/gold+confiscation+act.htm

[Joe King]

Would it really surprise anyone?

[General of Darkness]

Glad I've only got silver.

BTW - What are they going to do with all the mestizos and africans with gold teef?

[po boy]

1. Executive Order, signed by Obama, that makes the ownership of gold a criminal offense.

For whom? Most likely for US citizens.

5. The act will be enforced by the United States Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service. Those with SSN#'s have obligated themselves to the IRS. AKA Taxpayers.

[Serpo]

Pliers.....

[Ponce]

I now am glad tha I am only a sheep with no gold or even silver.......oh well.

[po boy]

Article reads like a psyc op give up you gold now avoid the rush.

Be scared, fearful.

[Eyebone]

They write all kinds of stupid crap up there between their hookers and blow.

So what do you think about switching to all Silver?, will they be able to continue to suppress the price?

[joboo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S07wE5Gxsf8

[gunDriller]

I now am glad tha I am only a sheep with no gold or even silver.......oh well.

me too.

BAAAAA

or is it

BWAHAHA.

i don't think Obama will confiscate.

i think the trend is towards tightening down on informal cash sales, and on CONTROL CONTROL CONTROL, along with TAXATION TAXATION TAXATION.

e.g. Connecticut's law that you have to have a LICENSE to buy or sell gold or silver.

also similar to the clause in the original Obama-care law about 1099's for business transactions exceeding $600, which i think got repealed but that won't stop Uncle Shylock from trying again.

[po boy]

They write all kinds of stupid crap up there between their hookers and blow.

So what do you think about switching to all Silver?, will they be able to continue to suppress the price?

Isn't the ratio 16:1 silver to gold that is naturally occurring in the earths crust? If so what is the price ratio now? Food for thought.

All silver?, the guy i get silver from recommends to stay diversified but that is each individuals choice.If people dump out of fear price may go down, I think the QE3 will go through and that doesn't sound FRN positive to me.

There is some interesting reading here,sorry if it is remedial for you. http://the-moneychanger.com/commandments.phtml

Last paragraph talks about the unlikely event of gold being taken.

[palani]

Black market is the only free market. Just like with alcohol criminalization makes the stakes higher.

[Joe King]

Gundriller, of course. It's ALL about protecting the statu quo and attacking those who are seen as a threat to it.


But if that happens and you successfully portray yourself as that sheep, what do you do with it then? Who's going to buy it if it's illegal to own?

[Joe King]

Black market is the only free market. Just like with alcohol criminalization just makes the stakes higher.
Was there a black market in gold after 1933?

I'm asking because I have no idea if there was or not.

[palani]

Was there a black market in gold after 1933?

I'm asking because I have no idea if there was or not.

We know not all the gold was turned in. Government set the price for the gold received and then turned around and doubled the price. I recall reading an article where Roosevelt prohibited anyone in the U.S. who did not turn in gold from receiving the higher price and U.S. citizens were prohibited from owning gold until around the early '70s or so. Ownership would have been illegal if one could be PROVEN to be a U.S. citizen.

[po boy]

Was there a black market in gold after 1933?

I'm asking because I have no idea if there was or not.

Was there alcohol during prohibition?

There is always a black market.

Certain drugs are illegal too yet no shortage.

[osoab]

How much Au would be confiscated from the general public? What percentage would give it up now that have it? Small amounts on both sides I think.

If it does occur, it will either be preceding or just after the larger event.

[Joe King]

Was there alcohol during prohibition?

There is always a black market.

Certain drugs are illegal too yet no shortage.

True, but those are things that people actually use up by consuming them.....and then they need more.

Was there in fact a thriving black market in gold back then? One that us little people would have been able to participate in, anyways?

[Joe King]

We know not all the gold was turned in. Government set the price for the gold received and then turned around and doubled the price. I recall reading an article where Roosevelt prohibited anyone in the U.S. who did not turn in gold from receiving the higher price and U.S. citizens were prohibited from owning gold until around the early '70s or so. Ownership would have been illegal if one could be PROVEN to be a U.S. citizen.
They'd prove that easily because the people in question for the most part openly admitted being that.

[Ponce]

Back then the government did not go from house to house stealing your gold........this time they will walk in with a metal detector and find all your gold.......AND GUNS.......the gold will be the excuse to find the guns.

[Canadian-guerilla]

Back then the government did not go from house to house stealing your gold........this time they will walk in with a metal detector and find all your gold.......AND GUNS.......the gold will be the excuse to find the guns.

that's an interesting way to grab some guns

what would be more of a priority for .gov

gold or guns ?

[Ponce]

Control by Taxation........you got it.

[ximmy]

I had to sell all my gold to pay taxes...

[Canadian-guerilla]

2 for 1 boating accident ?

[palani]

They'd prove that easily because the people in question for the most part openly admitted being that.

That is the only proof that exists.... your own testimony.

[ximmy]

Back then the government did not go from house to house stealing your gold........this time they will walk in with a metal detector and find all your gold.......AND GUNS.......the gold will be the excuse to find the guns.

That's where a good gold watch story comes in...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kngBtoylIVM

[Joe King]

...and people willingly give that testimony because they will say they understand when in reality, they really don't.

[Ponce]

that's an interesting way to grab some guns

what would be more of a priority for .gov

gold or guns ?

Guns, of course, because with the guns you can keep your gold.

[Spectrism]

If they go hunting for gold, their hunt will find lead. We are so close to a boil over already.

[mrnhtbr2232]

People that hold physical are not going to bother complying with anything so stupid if it even sees the light of day.

[po boy]

If there so broke to try to take gold how are they going to fund this operation?

Go to every house with a metal detector, no way.

[mamboni]

I think this is BS. But nothing would surprise me because our government operates as a criminal syndicate and it has absolutley no respect for the Constitution or citizen rights. In 1933, a small percentage of gold in circulation was turned in, very small. They got the wealthy at the bank "safe" deposit boxes with IRS agents at every bank. Very few people owned gold then, only the wealthy. Even then IIRC you were allowed to keep one ounce per family member or thereabouts.

It is ironic that Bernanke publically denied that gold is money; he laughably insinuated that central banks only kept gold around for sentimental reasons, i.e. tradition - what utter nonsense. Even he had a look like he couldn't believe the bullshit that was coming out of his mouth. But if the Feds even tried to pass a law confiscating gold, then the public would know well in advance what with the internet grapevine; and the news would simply confirm that the government is desperate and at the end of the monetary road. The jig would be up for the dollar and paper money. Gold would move so fast underground and off shore that the Feds would be lucky to pick up a pittance in exchange for totally destroyed creditability.

Molon labe.

[Gaillo]

Back then the government did not go from house to house stealing your gold........this time they will walk in with a metal detector and find all your gold.......AND GUNS.......the gold will be the excuse to find the guns.

Steel washers, cans, old car parts, pipes, nails, etc. Scatter/bury them all FAR and WIDE.

[osoab]

That's where a good gold watch story comes in...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kngBtoylIVM


What if they wand your ass?

Oh yeah, that is what the TSA is trained to do. ;D

[chad]

even if they revalued gold at $50,000 an ounce ad then proceeded to confiscate it all, it would still only be enough to run the government for maybe 1 year.

this is a a total bullshit story.

if they want to go after something, watch your 401k, roths, etc. that's where the "gold" is in the year 2011.

[osoab]

even if they revalued gold at $50,000 an ounce ad then proceeded to confiscate it all, it would still only be enough to run the government for maybe 1 year.

this is a a total bullshit story.

if they want to go after something, watch your 401k, roths, etc. that's where the "gold" is in the year 2011.

Not my GLD! Oh the humanity.

[Joe King]

even if they revalued gold at $50,000 an ounce ad then proceeded to confiscate it all, it would still only be enough to run the government for maybe 1 year.

this is a a total bullshit story.

IMO, "IF" it were to happen, it wouldn't so much be for the running of the country as much as it would be to punish those who dared try to profit from their fiscal irresponsibility.

ie if the sheep see that, they might get suspicous that something was amiss.

[Plastic]

If true... I predict a massive incease in shovel sales, with dhs agents posted secretly in all
hardware stores to corral any sheeps that attempt to escape from the farm.

[Ponce]

Let's face it, no matter what the government do they are going down the toilet........what they have now won't even pay the interest for one week.

[Twisted Titan]

those that buy from online retailers and use cc's are going to be in for a nasty surprise.

that digital trail is going to come back to haunt them in the worst of ways.


stay cash
stay private

[Son-of-Liberty]

I'll believe it when I see actual legislation. Gov could easily be "leaking" this sort of disinfo to try and drive down the POG.

[keehah]

This article does not ring true to me, more like rehased 3 year old dis-info, or the fears of an awakening sheep at that certain stage mamy of us went through.

What I'm mainly commenting for is to share this little quip:

3. Gold Confiscation will be sold to the general public as a necessary step to stabilizing the dollar and a return to the gold standard.

So instead of fiat money backed by 'nothing', it is backed by 'something no one can own'. :)

[mamboni]

This thread needs something.....more....cowbell.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKV3iCOlOMw&feature=related

[palani]

So instead of fiat money backed by 'nothing', it is backed by 'something no one can own'. :)

Isn't abolition of private property one of the 10 planks? 'Something no one can own' seems to fit the bill.

[Joe King]

Yes it is.

[Sparky]

What a crock of $hit. Let me know when there's a House Bill that you can reference.

Confiscation of gold would be an admission that it has value as currency, undermining the validity of the fiat that they can print without constraint. It's the last thing they want to admit.

GSUSers are too smart to give this baseless claim any credibility.

[osoab]

I'll believe it when I see actual legislation. Gov could easily be "leaking" this sort of disinfo to try and drive down the POG.


Could be any number of organizations that are trying to drive the price of Au down. Chinese, JPM, HSBC, etc, etc.

[Large Sarge]

americans lost their gold, but they gained the world reserve currency.. (and it was 2 tiered, dollars at home were not worth gold, but dollars abraod were worth gold)

so this time around, I think americans lose their reserve currency status
lose their petro dollar system

to be replaced my a multinational IMF SDR reserve currency, which would have a percentage of gold backing.....

Gold gets valued real high,

on an old post, someone here said (unconfirmed/hearsay) that he knew a manage at one of those "we buy gold" (or maybe a refiner?), anyway said uncle sam was buying most of the gold being turned in....

I doubt they do confiscation, unless they cannot get the new system to be accepted.

they just revalue gold so high, and depress the economy,a flood of it comes to market.... peaceful confiscation

I say doubtful

losing world reserve currency status is going to hurt

[mrnhtbr2232]

Those that have gold own something that transmutes from a small form factor shiny metal into anything a person requires including life or death situations. With that level of utility, surrendering it for short-term gain or by order of authorities would be the domain of fools, especially in these times. As we approach zero hour, gold will be more important than ever for just that reason. It's just white noise anymore.

[7th trump]

Could be any number of organizations that are trying to drive the price of Au down. Chinese, JPM, HSBC, etc, etc.
You said it Sarge.......
It will not be accepted......the beast gets a mortal blow!

[EE_]

No worries, no confication possible.
It's only tradition


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dj9v9s9buk

[Serpo]

I only posted this because I dont think this guy is an idiot.Any way have taken his advice years ago...........370

[Awoke]

Well although a lot of smart and respectable members are saying this is a bullshit article, IMO the possibility remains that they could and would enact another confiscation bill. I put nothing past the satanic occultists behind the drivers wheel of global enslavement.

But one thing that I haven't seen anyone mention so far is, I personally believe that the PTB learned their lesson last time they tried to take peoples gold: I believe that they will encompass other monetary metals as well if they choose to go down this road.

So as much as you all should be relieved if you hold silver, you should also be wary, because they have realized that silver is a finite resource which is set to explode in price. I just can't image the cultists sitting back and saying "We just want your gold. You can keep your silver". It doesn't make sense.

For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if they included the other frequently traded PM's, such as platinum and palladium too.

Anyhoo, I sold my metals for cash and bought lead and brass, and some brass sprinklers. And a fishing rod.

Fuck them.

[Dogman]

Well although a lot of smart and respectable members are saying this is a bullshit article, IMO the possibility remains that they could and would enact another confiscation bill. I put nothing past the satanic occultists behind the drivers wheel of global enslavement.

But one thing that I haven't seen anyone mention so far is, I personally believe that the PTB learned their lesson last time they tried to take peoples gold: I believe that they will encompass other monetary metals as well if they choose to go down this road.

So as much as you all should be relieved if you hold silver, you should also be wary, because they have realized that silver is a finite resource which is set to explode in price. I just can't image the cultists sitting back and saying "We just want your gold. You can keep your silver". It doesn't make sense.

For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if they included the other frequently traded PM's, such as platinum and palladium too.

Anyhoo, I sold my metals for cash and bought lead and brass, and some brass sprinklers. And a fishing rod.

Fuck them.

Yes, and agree it could happen. If they get desperate enough, I feel they would "Nationalize" anything of value , for the good of the country.

[palani]

This is the way a pledge works:

You belong to a church and it needs a new roof. The members pledge certain amounts of their assets to provide for the service. The preacher takes the sum of the pledges to the banker and convinces him that enough members have agreed to back the loan, the funds get issued, the roofer gets paid and the roof goes on. The loan is serviced by the weekly contributions given at Sunday service. When the contributions fall off, the loan is not repaid and the banker pulls out the list of pledges to cross reference with his customers.

Turns out the doctor pledged $1,000 for the roof, the roof cost $50,000 and the doctor has enough in his savings account to repay the rest of the loan, say $20,000. So that is what happens. The banker doesn't go out to each of the pledgees and apportion the debt. He is going to find the one with the deep pockets and seize the funds from that account.

If gold is going to be seized then it is going to come from those who pledged their assets and sent their representatives to congress to convince bankers to loan the money. Non-pledgees excepted.

[gunDriller]

at this point the US government is basically a looting operation.

want to farm ? need a license.

want to consume an herb that was one of the 3 most widely proscribed medicines (along with tinctures of opium & cocaine) in the US until 1937 ? got to pay a "doctor" - usually a Jew - anywhere from $80 to $300 for Official Permission to consume marijuana.

want your kids to have a lemonade stand ? guess you need a license.

just as cops are happy to bill you $800 for going 15 over the speed limit in a construction zone (on Highway 5 in California - 1/3 of 5 = 300 miles, is a construction zone), it's about looting the citizens (that's us) to pay the Talmud-worshippers in the 'government' and their police state apparatus.

it doesn't have to make sense.

they don't care if it will only finance operations for 6 months.

in the US, government has become an ongoing criminal enterprise ... moving from one crime to the next.

[crazychicken]

NATIONALIZE is the key word here.

Anything and everything

Not just gold, or real estate, or cars, or food-----EVERYTHING

CC

[palani]

NATIONALIZE is the key word here.

Anything and everything

Not just gold, or real estate, or cars, or food-----EVERYTHING

CC

True. My nationality is Iowan. Any other nationality who wants my private property does so by looting and pillaging.

[undgrd]

Anyone who thinks this COULDN'T happen hasn't thought it all the way through.

So they write a bill and vote it into law. Nobody but the "crazy lunatic fringe" even knows about the law, let alone is worried about it. You think Fast Money will be shouting about the injustice perpetrated against the PM Investors ??? Yeah...right.

Now that the law is passed, (It included a clause for the largest sellers to provide a list of customers for the last 10 years...didn't you read the fine print?) local IRS agents are dispatched to have a chat with buyers and sellers. This works out perfect for the IRS. If you have any gold, we're taking it outright and charging you. If you don't and can't produce a bill of sale, we're taxing you for undeclared income...plus interest :).

"Good thing we checked this guy out huh Jenkins? Not only gold but 'AUTOMATIC WEAPONS'! Think I saw a copy of the Constitution in there too...HA...<shakes head>...constitution"

Still nobody cares since this is happening to the "lunatic fringe". The only way anyone knows this is happening with any regularity is when some "lone wolf T1000 super nut" decides to stand up for their rights...for the 10 minutes it takes to mortally wound them and they bleed out. News shows up to report.

"Thanks Connie. I'm here at the residence of a man who engaged in a shootout with police this afternoon. His identity is being withheld for National Security purposes. The only thing I've been told is, the resident was asked to step outside and refused, suddenly opening fire with ASSAULT WEAPONS prompting swift action to protect the residence of this sleepy community."

Should I keep going?

[po boy]

Can anyone show a case where someone was arrested and prosecuted for not turning their gold during the last go around?

Did anyone even challenge it?

[undgrd]

Can anyone show a case where someone was arrested and prosecuted for not turning their gold during the last go around?

Did anyone even challenge it?

I'm not sure anyone was. Probably wasn't as easy to find buyers/sellers as querying a database like today.

[gunDriller]

Anyone who thinks this COULDN'T happen hasn't thought it all the way through.

So they write a bill and vote it into law. Nobody but the "crazy lunatic fringe" even knows about the law, let alone is worried about it. You think Fast Money will be shouting about the injustice perpetrated against the PM Investors ??? Yeah...right.

Now that the law is passed, (It included a clause for the largest sellers to provide a list of customers for the last 10 years...didn't you read the fine print?) local IRS agents are dispatched to have a chat with buyers and sellers. This works out perfect for the IRS. If you have any gold, we're taking it outright and charging you. If you don't and can't produce a bill of sale, we're taxing you for undeclared income...plus interest :).

"Good thing we checked this guy out huh Jenkins? Not only gold but 'AUTOMATIC WEAPONS'! Think I saw a copy of the Constitution in there too...HA...<shakes head>...constitution"

Still nobody cares since this is happening to the "lunatic fringe". The only way anyone knows this is happening with any regularity is when some "lone wolf T1000 super nut" decides to stand up for their rights...for the 10 minutes it takes to mortally wound them and they bleed out. News shows up to report.

"Thanks Connie. I'm here at the residence of a man who engaged in a shootout with police this afternoon. His identity is being withheld for National Security purposes. The only thing I've been told is, the resident was asked to step outside and refused, suddenly opening fire with ASSAULT WEAPONS prompting swift action to protect the residence of this sleepy community."

Should I keep going?

unfortunately, some of my brothers lap that stuff up as if it was oatmeal with brown sugar and cream.

one of the human attributes that the DHS uses is the fear of being seen as "wierd" or "mentally unstable". i've actually seen acquaintances have panic attacks about standing on a sidewalk with a sign, for a cause that they totally believed in ... cuz they didn't want to look WIERD.

the Talmud-worshippers tried to use this trait to their advantage when they released the "study" recently (the last 2 years) about people who believe "conspiracy theories" as being "mentally unhinged." Americans are TERRIFIED of being perceived as lunatics, and they filter their thinking & speech accordingly.

taking their cues from ... TV, among other sources.


"Clinical psychology

For some individuals, an obsessive compulsion to believe, prove, or re-tell a conspiracy theory may indicate one or a combination of well-understood psychological conditions, and other hypothetical ones: paranoia, denial, schizophrenia, mean world syndrome."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

[undgrd]

I'm pretty sure they've hit people with the "weird" label because either way, you're using your brain...and THAT is a no no.


I would people these "weird" people to the link below
33 Conspiracy Theories that turned out to be True (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?34710-33-Conspiracy-Theories-That-Turned-Out-To-Be-True-What-Every-Person-Should-Know&highlight=Conspiracy+Theories)

[po boy]

I'm not sure anyone was. Probably wasn't as easy to find buyers/sellers as querying a database like today.

I'm not either meaning I believe people turned it over without even challenging the constitutionality of the act.

So even if they try that garbage again would anyone challenge them in court now?

[dys]

People that own PMs tend to be clued into what is really happening. Anybody with a clue is an enemy of the bad guys. And that is why it is just a matter of time before this happens.
There is a war going on out there. Right now. It's already here.

dys

[undgrd]

Not a chance and for the reason dys wrote.



People that own PMs tend to be clued into what is really happening.

[mamboni]

Anyone who thinks this COULDN'T happen hasn't thought it all the way through.

So they write a bill and vote it into law. Nobody but the "crazy lunatic fringe" even knows about the law, let alone is worried about it. You think Fast Money will be shouting about the injustice perpetrated against the PM Investors ??? Yeah...right.

Now that the law is passed, (It included a clause for the largest sellers to provide a list of customers for the last 10 years...didn't you read the fine print?) local IRS agents are dispatched to have a chat with buyers and sellers. This works out perfect for the IRS. If you have any gold, we're taking it outright and charging you. If you don't and can't produce a bill of sale, we're taxing you for undeclared income...plus interest :).

"Good thing we checked this guy out huh Jenkins? Not only gold but 'AUTOMATIC WEAPONS'! Think I saw a copy of the Constitution in there too...HA...<shakes head>...constitution"

Still nobody cares since this is happening to the "lunatic fringe". The only way anyone knows this is happening with any regularity is when some "lone wolf T1000 super nut" decides to stand up for their rights...for the 10 minutes it takes to mortally wound them and they bleed out. News shows up to report.

"Thanks Connie. I'm here at the residence of a man who engaged in a shootout with police this afternoon. His identity is being withheld for National Security purposes. The only thing I've been told is, the resident was asked to step outside and refused, suddenly opening fire with ASSAULT WEAPONS prompting swift action to protect the residence of this sleepy community."

Should I keep going?

The scary part is that we cannot rely upon the News to be independent and report such an incident (of a gold/gun owner having a shootout with the law rather than turn over his gold/guns). All the mass media is owned by the Talmudic corporations, all of it. So it is not inconcievable for the government to target individual gold-owning homes with armed collectors, home breakins and search and siezures, conducted nationally and systematically, and all of us not even knowing that it is happening. It would not be reported on the local news or nationally and long after it is over. Since only 1 in 100 homes own any gold worth taking (i.e. bullion), this could happen without msot of us having a clue about it. Let's be honest - there is no rule of law in America 2011. We are living like POWs in a camp during war. The man can enter any time for any reason and take whatever he wants and call it contraband and our only options are to comply or fight.

[po boy]

"there is no rule of law in America 2011" and there will never be for those who are ignorant of it.

[mamboni]

"there is no rule of law in America 2011" and there will never be for those who are ignorant of it.

'you dissin' me boy?!?!O0

373

[po boy]

No diss to you just pointing out a truth, and rid a fearful ,defeatist attitude.
I do think though someone who is smart enough to become a Dr. could learn law well enough to fight back.


Offense vs. defense?

[mamboni]

No diss to you just pointing out a truth, and rid a fearful ,defeatist attitude.
I do think though someone who is smart enough to become a Dr. could learn law well enough to fight back.


Offense vs. defense?

There is a great movie from the early 1960s "Man for all Seasons." Perhaps you know of it. It is probably appropos here. To wit, the protagonist is an excellent lawyer, a righteous man, and he is squarely on the side of what is just and lawful. He still gets his head cut off.

Capeche?

[po boy]

You saying freedom ain't free and not all battles are fought on a field with guns.

When the zombies come just throw out you food and die a slow death? Some how I don't think you really believe that.

I have not seen that movie so thank for the review.

Property is the holy Grail in law.http://library.georgegordon.com/node/1581

[palani]

You would think that something so basic to Law would have shown itself before the 17th century.


property
c.1300, "nature, quality," later "possession" (a sense rare before 17c.)

Sort of leads you to believe that the appearance of this word in the 13th century coincided with the Magna Charta. When property is discussed could this be something belonging to the crown?

[Joe King]

Back in '33, wasn't the confiscation in fact, more along the lines of a forced sale to the gov at the govs price?

Ater all, they used that tactic to get the gold used as money out of circulation. Remember, there was a bank run and the banks didn't have enough gold to back up all the claim slips {paper currency} that had been created. That was the problem. The people wanted their gold back and those at the front of the line who actually got theirs were "made" to sell theirs back in exchange for paper "money".
Had the people maintained faith in paper "money", it might not have happened as it did.


So today, what would happen if people started to reject credit "money" in large enough numbers to do the same with paper today?
Would they "force" people to exchange their physical paper "money" for electronic "money"? Thereby creating the cashless system we've always heard was coming?

Since this credit crunch thing started, I've heard lots of people say that if it becomes a big enough problem, that cash being king, they'll go cash-only.
Well everybody can't do that. Just like in 1933 there wasn't enough physical gold to use as a means of exchange that would keep the inflated economy they'd created going without a huge revaluation of the gold, today there isn't enough cash to keep it going at the currently inflated levels either.
At least not without adding a bunch of zeros on to the ends of the numbers on our paper currency.

If people ever go try to withdraw their "money" in mass numbers, they'll make them give it back in exchange for digits on a card, or something similar.
ie use of the system they've created, will be mandatory.

[palani]

Back in '33, wasn't the confiscation in fact, more along the lines of a forced sale to the gov at the govs price?

To this day if you try to pay a $200 fine with a $20 double eagle they will take your coin and issue you a credit of $20 toward your bill. Probably in the back room the clerk exchanges a $20 FRN for the double eagle and the books balance out again (in their minds).

There was no confiscation of gold within any of the several States. The authority of the federal government did not go that far then and it certainly does not go that far now. Posters were placed on federal property (post offices and federal reserve banks) and people PRESUMED they needed to comply. They did not. That is the bad thing about presumptions .. mostly they are wrong.

[mamboni]

To this day if you try to pay a $200 fine with a $20 double eagle they will take your coin and issue you a credit of $20 toward your bill. Probably in the back room the clerk exchanges a $20 FRN for the double eagle and the books balance out again (in their minds).

There was no confiscation of gold within any of the several States. The authority of the federal government did not go that far then and it certainly does not go that far now. Posters were placed on federal property (post offices and federal reserve banks) and people PRESUMED they needed to comply. They did not. That is the bad thing about presumptions .. mostly they are wrong.

Very good point regarding the limits of federal jurisdiction. But, I have read accounts of IRS agents placed in banks to supervise customers opening private safety deposit boxes. The IRS agent purportedly siezed any eligible gold (i.e. currency) and reimbursed the customer with FRNs. This would have occurred on private property, no?

[steyr_m]

Back in '33, wasn't the confiscation in fact, more along the lines of a forced sale to the gov at the govs price?

Ater all, they used that tactic to get the gold used as money out of circulation. Remember, there was a bank run and the banks didn't have enough gold to back up all the claim slips {paper currency} that had been created. That was the problem. The people wanted their gold back and those at the front of the line who actually got theirs were "made" to sell theirs back in exchange for paper "money".
Had the people maintained faith in paper "money", it might not have happened as it did.


So today, what would happen if people started to reject credit "money" in large enough numbers to do the same with paper today?
Would they "force" people to exchange their physical paper "money" for electronic "money"? Thereby creating the cashless system we've always heard was coming?

Since this credit crunch thing started, I've heard lots of people say that if it becomes a big enough problem, that cash being king, they'll go cash-only.
Well everybody can't do that. Just like in 1933 there wasn't enough physical gold to use as a means of exchange that would keep the inflated economy they'd created going without a huge revaluation of the gold, today there isn't enough cash to keep it going at the currently inflated levels either.
At least not without adding a bunch of zeros on to the ends of the numbers on our paper currency.

If people ever go try to withdraw their "money" in mass numbers, they'll make them give it back in exchange for digits on a card, or something similar.
ie use of the system they've created, will be mandatory.

Well said, Joe King.... It's one of the smartest things I've seen you write. ;-)

[po boy]

To this day if you try to pay a $200 fine with a $20 double eagle they will take your coin and issue you a credit of $20 toward your bill. Probably in the back room the clerk exchanges a $20 FRN for the double eagle and the books balance out again (in their minds).

There was no confiscation of gold within any of the several States. The authority of the federal government did not go that far then and it certainly does not go that far now. Posters were placed on federal property (post offices and federal reserve banks) and people PRESUMED they needed to comply. They did not. That is the bad thing about presumptions .. mostly they are wrong.

True on both counts now as to the first. If some one still was still making income they could make it in SAE or GAE and remain below the reporting requirements and even if over thus needing to report are still able to pay income tax in FRN. Only a fool would pay a tax in SAE or GAE.

Don't keep gold or silver in a SDB.

[palani]

This would have occurred on private property, no?

If you are talking about a federal reserve bank safe deposit box the "crime" occured on federal property.

"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate", or "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"

[Joe King]

To this day if you try to pay a $200 fine with a $20 double eagle they will take your coin and issue you a credit of $20 toward your bill. Probably in the back room the clerk exchanges a $20 FRN for the double eagle and the books balance out again (in their minds).

There was no confiscation of gold within any of the several States. The authority of the federal government did not go that far then and it certainly does not go that far now. Posters were placed on federal property (post offices and federal reserve banks) and people PRESUMED they needed to comply. They did not. That is the bad thing about presumptions .. mostly they are wrong.
Ok. Then call it a de facto confiscation.

[Joe King]

Well said, Joe King.... It's one of the smartest things I've seen you write. ;-)
You need to keep reading then. lol

Oh, and thanks!

[palani]

Only a fool would pay a tax in SAE or GAE.

Art 1, Sec 10 ... States shall make nothing but gold or silver in tender of payment.

Should you choose to abide by all pertinent clauses then YOU might be considered to be the state. Being false in any one clause nullifies the entire concept of a constitution. Most people believe the State is something other than them and this clause has no bearing on their personal behavior. The truth is otherwise.

[palani]

Ok. Then call it a de facto confiscation.

14th amendment clause 4


But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States,...; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Are those who hold gold in insurrection against the United States. Understand that "the United States" is not "the United States of America". Different entities. Observation suggests that "the United States" is as red as ever was the USSR and is out to proclaim all private property subject to their looting. By holding gold/silver you are in insurrection against this new entity created by the 14th amendment.

Didn't you know that Roosevelt declared U.S. citizens subject to the 1917 Trading With the Enemy Act in 1933? This identifies their own proclaimed citizens to be in a state of war against them.

[mamboni]

14th amendment clause 4



Are those who hold gold in insurrection against the United States. Understand that "the United States" is not "the United States of America". Different entities.

Maybe we should just kill all of the lawyers - it would simplify things.:rolleyes:

[palani]

Maybe we should just kill all of the lawyers - it would simplify things.:rolleyes:

Who would issue licenses to doctors then and limit their liability?

Is Mamboni an anagram of Bon Ami, Good Friend?

[po boy]

Art 1, Sec 10 ... States shall make nothing but gold or silver in tender of payment.

Should you choose to abide by all pertinent clauses then YOU might be considered to be the state. Being false in any one clause nullifies the entire concept of a constitution. Most people believe the State is something other than them and this clause has no bearing on their personal behavior. The truth is otherwise.

I haven't received statehood by using SAE or GAE.

[palani]

I haven't received statehood by using SAE or GAE.

How hard have you bothered looking? You insist upon viewing these items as commodities valued in FRNs. The FRN establishes your lawform (debt belongs to slaves). You purchase insurance and are irresponsible as a result. You are represented by agents in congress who you voted into their office. You believe you need to be placed in the same classification as a dog who also needs a license. There are many more items that could be added to this list but it all comes down to behavior.

[Dogman]

Maybe we should just kill all of the lawyers - it would simplify things.:rolleyes: If that was done, 10,000 for everyone killed, will be resurrected from hell, to replace them.

[po boy]

How hard have you bothered looking? You insist upon viewing these items as commodities valued in FRNs. The FRN establishes your lawform (debt belongs to slaves). You purchase insurance and are irresponsible as a result. You are represented by agents in congress who you voted into their office. You believe you need to be placed in the same classification as a dog who also needs a license. There are many more items that could be added to this list but it all comes down to behavior.

If one doesn't have insurance is not represented or have licenses and value thing in FRN does statehood come in the mail?


Kill all the lawyers that would be half of DC wouldn't it?

[Joe King]

That'd be ok. You just have to give 'em the "good people, bad people" litmus test first.

[palani]

If one doesn't have insurance is not represented or have licenses and value thing in FRN does statehood come in the mail? Start stripping away the irresponsible actions and you will be left with only the responsible. Or you might start buying Cracker Jack to see if there is this one special prize.



Kill all the lawyers that would be half of DC wouldn't it?

Is it responsible to assign blame to others for your choices?

[po boy]

Start stripping away the irresponsible actions and you will be left with only the responsible. Or you might start buying Cracker Jack to see if there is this one special prize.




Is it responsible to assign blame to others for your choices?

Where does it say one turns into a state by the use of SAE or GAE.


Is it responsible to assign blame to others for your choices? No it isn't. What did that have to do with what you quoted?

I'm not a voter if that was what you're implying.

[palani]

Where does it say one turns into a state by the use of SAE or GAE. Article 1 Section 10. Also, items of gold and silver are specie, aka the only constitutional money.

Magna Carta is the law most people look to for common law. However the Laws of the Forest works alongside the Magna Carta. Here is an exerpt from a 15th century treatise on the Laws of the Forest:


for gold and silver are things of the most excellency, that are upon the earth: and therefore, when they are found in the land of any man, the Law doth attribute them, being things of such excellency, to belong to the most excellent person, which is the King.

Whosoever is in possession of specie owns it, alloidally, without debt. It is private property held by the King. It is also considered portable soil. You get to be the King of a territory made of gold or silver. But all you want to do is compare it with a paper FRN.


No it isn't. What did that have to do with what you quoted? Your quote .. kill all lawyers. Why? Because you chose to be deceived and they have deceived you?


I'm not a voter if that was what you're implying. Have you rescinded your voter registration? Are you an elector?

[Horn]

To confiscate Gold at this juncture would lend it credence to the rest of the world.

You heard Bernanke, "it ain't money".

No, they will just tax and apply leeching paper tracking contracts to the entire game.

[po boy]

One cannot be a king without a castle, or an army.

What part of article 1 sec 10 does it state what you are claiming?

You need to look at what was posted by the doc to see that I was replying to him sorry you mixed it up.

It should have read IF you kill all lawyers the would be half of DC.

[palani]

One cannot be a king without a castle, or an army. State your source.


What part of article 1 sec 10 does it state what you are claiming?


Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

As treaties override the constitution and this Treaty from 1803 with France is currently in full force and effect, read this paragraph carefully and guess at precisely what is offered to those of us fortunate enough to be born in (previously) French territory:


Art: III
The inhabitants of the ceded territory shall be incorporated in the Union of the United States and admitted as soon as possible according to the principles of the federal Constitution to the enjoyment of all these rights, advantages and immunities of citizens of the United States, and in the mean time they shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property and the Religion which they profess.

Funny thing is, the citizens of the United States at the time can only be considered to be the several States that formed the union. Using this logic by treaty we Inhabitants are to be admitted as States.

[mick silver]

dam i wish i had some silver and gold . i just have paper money because our gov is great and we have the best leader in the world and they will save the wolrld

[crazychicken]

I really don't want gold and silver. Paper money for me. The metal weighs too darned much.

CC

[Dogman]

I really don't want gold and silver. Paper money for me. The metal weighs too darned much.

CC Especially when on water.

[po boy]

Palani,

I can make anything payment of debt so long as the parties agree to it.

as to the source to the King without a castle me.

[beefsteak]

I'm not sure anyone was. Probably wasn't as easy to find buyers/sellers as querying a database like today.

There was one case.



Invalidation and reissue

There was only one prosecution under the order, and in that case the order was ruled invalid by federal judge John M. Woolsey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_M._Woolsey), on the grounds that the order was signed by the President, not the Secretary of the Treasury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_the_Treasury) as required.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102#cite_note-3)
The circumstances of the case were that a New York attorney, Frederick Barber Campbell (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frederick_Barber_Campbell&action=edit&redlink=1), had on deposit at Chase National (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chase_National_Bank) over 5,000 troy ounces (160 kg) of gold. When Campbell attempted to withdraw the gold Chase refused and Campbell sued Chase. A federal prosecutor then indicted Campbell on the following day (September 27, 1933) for failing to surrender his gold.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102#cite_note-4) Ultimately the prosecution of Campbell failed but the authority of federal government to seize gold was upheld.


The case forced the Roosevelt administration to issue a new order under the signature of the Secretary of the Treasury, Henry Morgenthau, Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgenthau,_Jr.), which was in force for a few months until the passage of the Gold Reserve Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Reserve_Act) on January 30, 1934.


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,746366,00.html


It is also not widely told that gold mining companies also had a specific set of "confiscatory rules" to abide by. They had to sell, regardless of market conditions before 6 weeks were up. And it was enforced vis a vis the 11 national assay offices which were the "reporting stations" for the mining companies.


If memory serves, there were either 2 or 3 mining companies who were caught and fined heavily for not getting their deed done within the required 6 weeks.


Also, there was a specific set of guidelines for how much non-fabricated gold a bench jeweler could have on hand at any one time and be in compliance.


That was one strange "add-on" to that last minute shoved through Christmas Tree amendment to that particular Agriculture Bill containing the confiscatory law.


Within 10 days it was amended in another late night deal in order to permit those who had "numismatic and heirloom items" to not be required to turn those items in with all the other gold in their bank S.D. boxes.




beefsteak

[palani]

I can make anything payment of debt so long as the parties agree to it. One means of determining your lawform is by the form of currency used.


as to the source to the King without a castle me. Uninformed opinion is no source.

I would be willing to bet you believe Texas to be a bit of land nestled next to the Mexican border, in size the third largest state should Alaska choose to be split in two equal parts. But then you would be wrong. Land is a volume and not a state. A state is a body politic. It might be said to be a group of people as long as group is inclusive of a singularity.

There is no part of the concept of "king" that includes a castle.

[mamboni]

Who would issue licenses to doctors then and limit their liability?

Is Mamboni an anagram of Bon Ami, Good Friend?

No, 'cause you don't account for an 'm.'

While you and Po Boy have been mentally wrestling like intellectual titans, riding tangential legalisms, someone from the Federal Government just came by and siezed your gold and left a paper receipt. I thought you'd like to know.

BTW, I have this question about angels and the head of a pin......

[Sparky]

A more realistic risk than confiscation is exorbitant taxation. It wouldn't get them the gold, but it would keep the price and demand down, which subdues the competition with fiat. It would be a prime target if we were to ever institute a Europe-style Value Added Tax (VAT).

[palani]

No, 'cause you don't account for an 'm.'
You cannot see it. I overlayed the other "m" with it.


While you and Po Boy have been mentally wrestling like intellectual titans, riding tangential legalisms, someone from the Federal Government just came by and siezed your gold and left a paper receipt. I thought you'd like to know. whut u smokin', bon ami?


BTW, I have this question about angels and the head of a pin...... Maybe you would prefer to ask precisely how may "m''s I have overlaid over the single one visible? Say you were willing to pay me $.05 for each "m". Send cash. I will let you know when to stop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_angels_can_dance_on_the_head_of_a_pin%3F

[gunDriller]

A more realistic risk than confiscation is exorbitant taxation. It wouldn't get them the gold, but it would keep the price and demand down, which subdues the competition with fiat. It would be a prime target if we were to ever institute a Europe-style Value Added Tax (VAT).

taxation is as old as English royalty. they have the Talmud-worshippers whispering in their ear, "Borrow from us. you can tax your subjects to finance the debt-service payment."

heck, taxation is as old as the Roman Empire.

taxation might be the world's 4th oldest profession. after prostitution, hunting, and farming.