Who's sorry now? Heirs Lose Fight With Gov't to Keep Rare Gold Coins

[EE_]

Sorry they ever sent their coins in to be authenticated

Heirs Lose Fight With Gov't to Keep Rare Gold Coins

A jury has decided that a set of rare gold coins found in a bank deposit box rightfully belongs to the U.S. government.

The decision, made on Wednesday, caps an unusual civil case that combined history, coin collecting and whether the set of rare $20 "double eagles" should have ever let the U.S. Mint in 1933.

Federal prosecutors had asserted that the coins never circulated when the country went off the gold standard. Most of the batch was instead melted down.

But Joan Langbord, the daughter of a Philadelphia jeweler, said she found the 10 coins in her father's bank deposit bank after he died.

She said that her father could have acquired them legally, perhaps through a trade of gold scrap.

One 1933 double eagle sold for $7.6 million in 2002.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Heirs-Lose-Fight-With-Government-to-Keep-Dads-Rare-1933-Gold-Coins-125908579.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8f

[Joe King]

They must've thought the gov was there to help them.

[vacuum]

I blame the jury here. It shows what happens why you deal with petty little individuals who are driven by spite and fear. That's what our society is composed of.

[Joe King]

The new American motto: Give me Liberty or at least make sure my neighbor can't have it either. lol

[ximmy]

it's ok... they will end up in the private collection of a politician, banker or oil man...

[Spectrism]

I think I might go to war over something like that. Really.

But a fool who puts his faith in the government is deserving of beatings he asks for.

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

A jury found in favor of the government today in a case involving ten 1933 $20 gold pieces. The government has long contended that no 1933 $30 Saint Gaudens were officially released and that any surviving specimens were in fact stolen. The government confiscated numerous specimens in the 1940s and 1950s.



Ten years ago or so, a specimen showed up in New York and was seized by the government in a sting operation. After a few years of legal wrangling, the coin was sold by Sotheby’s and Stack for $7.5 million, the government splitting the proceeds with the owner, British dealer Stephen Fenton. The coin was supossedly the King Farouk specimen which had an official export license sometime in the 1940s when Farouk acquired the piece. At the time of the sale, it was stated that this was the only specimen that would ever officially be monetized and legal to own.


There are also two examples in the Smithsonian Institution collection. There are also 2 to 5 more existing specimens out in the shadow world…one of which I personally saw in 1980.
To complicate matters, the Philadelphia heirs of the jeweler who originally handled probably all of the existing specimens post-1933 turned in ten specimens (there existence being unknown to the numismatic community) to government after the $7.5 million sale and asked them to rule on their legal status. The governemnt decided to keep the coins. The heirs sued.
I assume the decision will be appealed. I am not a lawyer and I don’t know who’s right legally. But as a coin person I think the decision sucks. I would much prefer the coins be legal to own and sold into the marketplace so numerous people could own them. If the ten coins were legal to own they’d probably be worth $3 million each, give or take. Two intersting questions to think about. If the ten coins are made legal to own on appeal, would the shadow coins then be legal too? Second, what’s the government going to do with the coins? They have stated that they would not make any other 1933 $20 gold pieces legal. But are they going to melt $30 million worth of coins????


http://www.pcgsblog.com/david-hall/news/government-wins-1933-20-case

[vacuum]

Even if they were stolen, isn't there a statue of limitations or something?

[Spectrism]

How can it be ILLEGAL to own coins?

If they want to accuse someone of stealing them from the mint, they better damn well prove it.

[willie pete]

an incredibly stupid move on that familys part....

[madfranks]

it's ok... they will end up in the private collection of a politician, banker or oil man...

You are right, and that pisses me off to no end. I don't understand the jury's decision, the family should have been able to keep them.

[mamboni]

an incredibly stupid move on that familys part....

Grandpa's rolling in his grave muttering: "Schmucks!!!! schmucks!! Vy? Vy? Oy vey vut schmucks!!!!"

[Gaillo]

Sooo... looks like the rumors we've been hearing about Gold confiscation are true! ;D

[Gaillo]

an incredibly stupid move on that familys part....

Yep. Should have shipped them (one at a time) fedex out of the country, then arranged private sales/auctions once the coins were safe in Switzerland. Instead, they get to taste the sweet nothing of American "freedom" and "justice".

[mamboni]

Yep. Should have shipped them (one at a time) fedex out of the country, then arranged private sales/auctions once the coins were safe in Switzerland. Instead, they get to taste the sweet nothing of American "freedom" and "justice".

Funny you should mention shipping and the yellow metal. I've often pondered that to get it out of the country, one could mail it in small amounts over several packages. The only problem I see is the risk of package loss or theft. But therein lies the problem: the package is ostensibly low profile. Once you try to insure it for the yellow metal contents the amount becomes attention grabbing. So, the alternative is no insurance which is risky, yes?

[Joe King]

I'd think that'd be a good way to do it.

As long as there is mail in sufficient quantity to mix yours in with.

Safety in numbers, and all.

[Dogman]

Funny you should mention shipping and the yellow metal. I've often pondered that to get it out of the country, one could mail it in small amounts over several packages. The only problem I see is the risk of package loss or theft. But therein lies the problem: the package is ostensibly low profile. Once you try to insure it for the yellow metal contents the amount becomes attention grabbing. So, the alternative is no insurance which is risky, yes?

The diamond industry sends jewels in normal mail all of the time. Just a thought.

[mamboni]

The diamond industry sends jewels in normal mail all of the time. Just a thought.

But it's insured for the value of the contents, no?

[Dogman]

But it's insured for the value of the contents, no? From what I understand , No. It makes that mail indistinguishable from any other.

[Joe King]

Unless it happens to get damaged in the equipment and is torn open.
But if it's packaged properly, the odds of that happening are small.

[mamboni]

Unless it happens to get damaged in the equipment and is torn open.
But if it's packaged properly, the odds of that happening are small.

True, but non-zero nevertheless.

That said, doesn't the shipper x-ray all packages looking for metal? Perhaps they are interrogated by a metal detector? Am I paranoid?

[Gaillo]

True, but non-zero nevertheless.

That said, doesn't the shipper x-ray all packages looking for metal? Perhaps they are interrogated by a metal detector? Am I paranoid?

Mamboni,
I've thought a lot about this, and here's what I would do.
I'd buy a WHOLE BUNCH of those novelty gold-foil enclosed chocolates, the ones that look like gold coins. I'd package them in an inner-box, with the gold coin (wrapped in the same fake gold foil as the chocolates) in the middle of it all. If it gets opened/inspected, it'd be pretty hard to "accidentally" locate the real gold coin. I would declare it as "novelty chocolate coins", not insure it, and hope for the best. Rinse, lather, repeat... the worse that could happen would be discovery in customs (unlikely), loss of package (almost never happens) or melted chocolate to clean off your coin at the other end (most likely problem).

All those layers of metal foil should make x-ray detection difficult, and metal-detector detection (of anything out of the "expected") impossible.

[willie pete]

True, but non-zero nevertheless.

That said, doesn't the shipper x-ray all packages looking for metal? Perhaps they are interrogated by a metal detector? Am I paranoid?

Nah....I doubt the carrriers X-ray all inter'l shipments, IF I were going to ship inter'l, I'd Overnight it or Express Ship it, that way it doesn't stay in the system that long, most carriers have some type of guarantees on those services so they hustle them out quick.....I've done that on High-Value parcels I've mailed domestically before...

[mamboni]

Mamboni,
I've thought a lot about this, and here's what I would do.
I'd buy a WHOLE BUNCH of those novelty gold-foil enclosed chocolates, the ones that look like gold coins. I'd package them in an inner-box, with the gold coin (wrapped in the same gold foil) in the middle.If it gets opened/inspected, it'd be pretty hard to "accidentally" locate the real gold coin. I would declare it as "novelty chocolate coins", not insure it, and hope for the best. Rinse, lather, repeat... the worse that could happen would be discovery in customs (unlikely), loss of package (almost never happens) or melted chocolate to clean off your coin at the other end (most likely problem).

All those layers of metal foil should make x-ray detection difficult, and metal-detector detection (of anything out of the "expected") impossible.

That's brilliant. I like the way you think! No wonder you're a MOD.

If I ever convince my son to relocate to another country, we'll open a on-line chocolates business.;)

[Dogman]

True, but non-zero nevertheless.

That said, doesn't the shipper x-ray all packages looking for metal? Perhaps they are interrogated by a metal detector? Am I paranoid? Sometimes and yes. Metal parts are sent in the mail all of the time. Place coin in square cardboard carrier wrap in foil and send with other loose stuff. Coin collectors send stuff overseas all of the time.

[Joe King]

True, but non-zero nevertheless.
What in life has that?
Remember, nothing ventured, nothing gained. In your own scenario, the choices are to take a small chance of losing with shipping, or a big chance of losing with confiscation


That said, doesn't the shipper x-ray all packages looking for metal? Perhaps they are interrogated by a metal detector?
That's possible I suppose.


Am I paranoid?It's only paranoia if they're really not out to get'cha.

If they are, it's well placed concern.

[Book]

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/files/2007/01/l39175-1.jpg

Hollow leg looks about the same diameter as an American Gold Eagle Mint Tube.

:) befriend a disabled Vet who likes to travel at your expense...

[Joe King]

You talkin' about the solid bar at the bottom?